₦airaland Forum

MaxInDHouse:
There's no need for any if you're sincere to yourself as long as the both aren't what was used by the people back in Bible times!

Smile...

Now you know that there's different.

Well, for now YHWH never appeared in any known OLDEST NT manuscripts in our possession today.

So how can Jesus used it?
If the name is so special, why will it be omitted?
If God actually inspired the NT writer and the name is so important, God would have ensured the presence of the name.

MaxInDHouse:
Of what essence is manuscript when we have found the solution?

To know how God used the writers to pen down His words.

If the manuscripts we have today spells out directly that Jesus is Yahweh even you won't contest it.

The purpose for which God inspired the writers of the book is for his worshipers to form a global family of peace loving worshipers {Isaiah 2:2-4; Micah 4:1-3} the letter doesn't have any value if you're not able to fulfill what the scriptures promised! 2Corinthians 3:6

With the NWT God's promise of a global family of peace loving worshipers has come true!

Out of context as usual.

You can't lies against God.

If the name doesn't appear in the NT, claiming it appears there is lying against God no matter how angelic you portrait your organisation.

MaxInDHouse:
Now you're talking the name Jesus was coined out

No! Was TRANSLATED.

just as Jehovah that's the point.

Jehovah was coined because the Four Tetragrammaton can't be pronounced.

So you can't kick against one and leave the other!

Only if you understand that there's different between TRANSLATION and FORMULATION.

Jesus is a translation

Jehovah is a formulation/coined.

Learn learn

Aemmyjah:
Is it proper to use the KJV as reference when it comes to whether God's name should be in certain places of the Bible?

No! You use MANUSCRIPTS.

KJV is just a TRANSLATION just as NWT.

MaxInDHouse:
Neither did any of his disciples called him by the name Jesus!

Yes! because they aren't English speaking but they called Him Yeshua/lēsous

If our conversation is in Hebrew or Greek you can't read Jesus anywhere.

MaxInDHouse:
Since you're not answering

Is dishonesty to say I'm not answering.

then my own Jesus called my God by the name JEHOVAH! Mark 12:29 NWT

Well, that's according to perverted NWT no other translation has that.

Jesus can't pronounce a name COINED by A Catholic Mork thousands of years later

Aemmyjah:
Tyndale version
Wycliffe
...

So what is your point exactly?

because I don't understand where you're coming from

MaxInDHouse:
The NWT uses the divine name where it correlates to what is inspired in the Hebrews Scriptures

This is where the manipulation comes in.

First you have to proof that New Testament writers used the Tetragrammaton.

But as we know today, no known oldest NT manuscripts have the name but Lord or God.

so there is a careful approach in the translation work to verify where Jehovah applies

It you're being careful then it means you're injecting your own manipulation.

That is why Watchtower came out to state the criteria they use but under scrutinized it's evident Watchtower was biased as they didn't follow their own rules.

but since you think Jehovah is the same as Jesus how can you figure out such errors in the old translations?

I didn't think so I only clarified your statement.

As you claimed "Anywhere LORD appears in the scriptures is YHEWH that should be there" then you shouldn't argue Jesus being Jehovah.

First of all there must be an agreement that the father totally differs from the son if you're not interested in that then your research will hit the wall!

That has already been established even before Russell was born.

The points are:

1. Was the name YHWH used in the NT?
2. Jesus didn't make use of YHWH anytime.
3. Did any English versions that insert Jehovah or Yahweh in the NT made mistake?

MaxInDHouse:
YES or NO?

I've answered this many times.

Here is my question you dodged.

What did Jesus call God during His time?

At least you agreed that Jesus didn't call God Jehovah...

MaxInDHouse:
Did his contemporaries call him JESUS, YES or NO?

I've answered this many times.

Here is my question you dodged.

What did Jesus call God during His time?


At least you agreed that Jesus didn't call God Jehovah...

Aemmyjah:
What about older versions that had the name in more places?

Which older versions are you talking about?

Besides, why will you jump on my mention without addressing my post before asking your own question?

MaxInDHouse:
The version you're using is what is misleading you.

Anywhere the title "LORD" is written in your Bible it's God's personal name that was written there before your translators replaced it with the title LORD.

That is why it's good to do small research to know the truth.

If what you said here is true then you shouldn't argue against Jesus being Jehovah.

The fact we have today is that ALL OLDEST KNOWN New Testament manuscripts never have the Tetragrammaton YHWH.

One of the reasons Watchtower gave for using Jehovah in the NT is the inclusion in Hebrew J version.

Meanwhile, Hebrew J Version are the manuscripts translated back to Hebrew about 1385AD which has YHWH in ALL PLACES WHERE LORD were Used.

But unfortunately the same Watchtower failed to applied J version in many places because that will make Jesus to be Jehovah.

For instance J7 and J8 translate 1 Peter 3:15 as: (J7) "Sanctify Jehovah God (who is Christ) in your hearts, ..."

In this case the NWT rejects the J Version's use of the word Jehovah, rather reading;

(NWT) "But sanctify the Christ as Lord in your hearts, ..."

J7 includes YHWH in reference to Jesus at Acts 9:5 - "Who are you, YHWH?" Saul asked. "I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting," he replied."

Here the New World Translation choses not to follow the J versions, translating Acts 9:5 as;

"He asked: “Who are you, Lord?” He said: “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting."

Other verses in which the Tetragrammaton appears in the "J" versions but not as Jehovah in the New World Translation include;

1 Corinthians 12:3
(J14) "...no one can say "Jesus is Lord Jehovah, except by the Holy Spirit."
(NWT) "nobody can say: "Jesus is Lord!" except by holy spirit.

2 Timothy 1:18
(J7,8,13,14,16,17,18,22,23,24) "The Lord Jehovah grant unto him that he may find mercy of the Lord Jehovah in that day..."

2 timothy 1:18 (NWT) "May the Lord grant him to find mercy from Jehovah in that day."

You can see what Watchtower sold to you and you're repeating here is false.

MaxInDHouse:
Nobody called the son of God by the name "Jesus" throughout his life

But He was called Yeshua/lēsous

just as he also never called God by the name JEHOVAH.

Now that you agree that Jesus never called God, JEHOVAH.

What did Jesus call God during His time?

So whatever makes you welcome the name "JESUS" which none of his contemporaries called him during his lifetime you're deceiving yourself when you kicked against the name JEHOVAH because both are TRANSLITERATIONS!

Jehovah is a formulation, Jesus wasn't formulated.

I never kick against the Name Jehovah.

I only said KJV made mistake by using Jehovah in a certain verse because it was never appears their and then asked you do you also agreed that NWT make mistake as well?

And scholars even favoured Yahweh as more accurate than Jehovah.

This is where your problem started from and reason why you've been going around displaying your ignoramus.

MaxInDHouse:
Just as JEHOVAH is TRANSLITERATION of the divine name YAHWEH!

You keep exposing your ignorance the more.

Jehovah is transliteration of what

And you'll be arguing blindly on what you don't know.

MaxInDHouse:
So the name is not JESUS just as JEHOVAH isn't the Hebrew pronunciation of the divine name!

The name is Jesus in English, Yeshua in Hebrew, lēsous in Greek. All these are still TRANSLITERATION.

Your assignment now, is to do for Jehovah the way I did for Jesus

Also provide where Jesus DECLARED the name/MADE The Name KNOWN.

You're still showing this your lack of basic Bible knowledge.

MaxInDHouse:
Yeshua or Jesus, what name did his mother and disciples called him during his lifetime?

Jesus mother and Disciples will called Him the name in the Lang the speak that time.

If it's Hebrew it will be Yeshua
If it's Greek it will be lēsous

Since the New Testament was written in Greek then it means they probably pronounced lēsous.

Furthermore, there is no salvation in anyone else, for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must get saved. Act 4:12

If his contemporaries like foster father, mother and disciples never called him "JESUS" then that can't be the name given for mankind's salvation.

They called Him Yeshua/lēsous

They can't called Him with ENGLISH rendition when they are not speaking English.

How hard is this for you to grab?

Look at the screenshot below Matt 1:1 a Greek person will read the first part while an English person will read the second part.

The same with the Psalm 83:19 screenshot

A Hebrew man will read the right hand side while an English man will read the left hand side.

But what is evident here is that, in Hebrew it is LORD the person reading will pronounce and not Jehovah.

Do you agree?

When you even lack the understanding of the subject matter.

The point here isn't translation issue but what is found in the original Lang.

I've provided the scriptures where God forbids the Israelites of mentioning His name and how the their forefathers forgot the name. It is also well known that the pronunciation of the name was forbidden before Christ was born.

So, the issue here are:

1. Did Jesus pronounce the name? Capital NO!
2. Did Jesus make use of the name? Capital NO!
3. Did Apostles make use of the name? Capital NO!

So, why none of them make use of the name?

Ans: Simply because a NAME that man must be saved will be given. Acts 4:12

So, if God wants us to make use of the name.

1. Jesus will have restore the actual pronunciation.
2. Jesus will use it multiple times to show how it should be used, so that no one will accuse another for wrong usage.
3. The Apostles will continue with the pronunciation and usage.
4. The pronunciation will never lost till this moment.
But the fact that none of this happened, it means no emphasis on the name anymore since The NAME THAT IS ABOVE EVERY NAME HAD BEEN GIVEN and we see the usage and pronunciation of this name throughout the works of the NT writers.

MaxInDHouse:
Ọmọ in that case the name "Jesus" is also invalid his parents never called him by that name.

He is YESHUA the prophet/son of YAHWEH

or

JESUS the prophet/son of JEHOVAH

So pick one!

This shows how shallow your scriptural understanding is.

The name Jesus is the English translation of the Latin transliteration of the Greek word lēsous.

But the pronunciation of the four Tetragrammaton was lost. So, Yahweh or Jehovah were coined from the four Tetragrammaton YHWH, but scholar settled for YAHWEH as they believed its more closer to the Hebrew language than Jehovah. Which watchtower agreed with.

So the pronunciation of YHWH has long lost before Jesus was even born and it all started like this.

God Himself prohibited the Israelites from pronouncing the name

Jeremiah 44:26 - "Therefore hear ye the word of the LORD, all Judah that dwell in the land of Egypt; Behold, I have sworn by my great name, saith the LORD, that my name shall no more be named in the mouth of any man of Judah in all the land of Egypt, saying, The Lord GOD liveth."

And God reminded the Israelites how their forefathers forgot His name for Baal.

Jer 23:27 - "Which think to cause my people to forget my name by their dreams which they tell every man to his neighbour, as their fathers have forgotten my name for Baal."

You see, reason why Jesus didn't bother to restore the name or use it was because another name will be given to MAN UNDER HEAVEN BY WHICH MAN MUST BE SAVED. Acts 4:12 and while Apostle Paul applied that Joel 2:32 to Jesus Christ in Rom 10:13

Another evidence from the scripture is that the leaders were looking for every opportunity to nail Jesus Christ, had it been Jesus PRONOUNCED the name, that will be a great opportunity for them to see something to hold accused Him as the pronunciation of the name has been forbidden.

After resurrection, the name that is ABOVE ALL NAME was given at the mentioned of the name of Jesus, ALL KNEES must now both in heaven and on earth. Phil 2:9-10

That is why you see The Apostles did everything IN JESUS NAME not Jehovah.

MaxInDHouse:
So in a nutshell Jesus quoted the name Moses gave Israelites as the one and only God of Israel shey?

I think that's enough nah or what do you think?

Jesus can't quote a name coined by a Catholic Mork, didn't you get it?

Jesus never USED THE NAME.

See it again.

MaxInDHouse:
Misinformed Churchians quoting one another!

Moses said to the Israelites:

“Listen, O Israel: Jehovah our God is one Jehovah." Deuteronomy 6:4

Jesus quoted Moses :

“The first is, ‘Hear, O Israel, Jehovah our God is one Jehovah," Mark 12:29

Check the preface of that version you're using it will tell you that it's the divine name they replaced using the title "LORD" so that is the same name Jesus used but enemies of God don't want to use God's name in His own book Bible.

The name a Catholic Mork coined several years after the death of Jesus is the same Name Jesus pronounced

Did you understand @color part you typed?

I doubt it.

Meanwhile, Jesus only mentioned the name WHEN QUOTING THE OLD TESTAMENT but never dim it fit to use it on His own

MaxInDHouse:
Deluded Churchian!

God's word says:

And everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved; For on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there will be those who escape, just as Jehovah has said, The survivors whom Jehovah calls. Joel 2:32

Paul quoted the above! Romans 10:13

Jesus taught his listeners the importance of his father's name! Matthew 6:9; John 17:6, 26

So it's the name of the Son that only matters yet the father's name is useless to you shey?

Funny Churchian!

Why Jesus Himself didn't use the said NAME during His time?

The below chat is for you till now No! Jws can answer that

MaxInDHouse:
By their FRUITS you will know them! Matthew 7:16-18

Of course and that's why we are bearing more FRUITS as Jesus said John 15:2

If they're fighting and killing their own fellow religionists after praying to their god to help them win wars that's enough to show the type of fruit they're bearing.

No Christian is fighting war today with another religion not to talk of fighting themselves.

If you have your evidence bring it here.

Jesus knew that Satan and his agents will surely bear more fruits than his disciples when he said:

“Go in through the narrow gate, because broad is the gate and spacious is the road leading off into destruction, and many are going in through it;  whereas narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are finding it" Matthew 7:13-14

No! Jesus didn't say that stop lying against our Lord and Saviour.

What Jesus says was "Those who abide in Him will BEAR MORE FRUITS

So, only us THE TRUE CHRISTIAN doing that today.

Only a handful few finds the road to everlasting life even though they will be found in all the nations of the earth! Act 1:8

Yes! The whole Christ body today are still FEW compare to the world POPULATION.

MaxInDHouse:
Jesus said with the right God all things are possible {Matthew 19:26} so the organization using the right name and practicing the right thing should fulfill what is found written in God's word!

I like that, that's why Christians who is the church of Christ are continuing to propagate the glory of Yahweh all around the world and bearing more fruits. John 15:2

MaxInDHouse:
The fact is that any organization that's calling the right name with the right work of faith will fulfill what God promised because they are using the right name:

For then I will change the language of the peoples to a pure language, So that all of them may call on the name of Jehovah, To serve him shoulder to shoulder. Zephaniah 3:9

What God promised in the Bible book Isaiah 2:2-4 and Micah 4:1-3 will be extremely difficult for those who don't know the right name or the right work to do! Act 1:8

So Jehovah is the right name, bah?

AbuTwins:
Is disobeying the law then fulfilling it?

No!

Then, do you understand now that to OBEY is different from to FULFILL?

No it does! If it doesn't then you are clutching on straws!

It does not!

As if a name is given then anybody can wake up to claim the name, that was the reason God used the best method CHARACTERISTICS and Jesus Himself, proved that using the Hebrew text.

Don't forget many Muslims have tried to claim Mohammed prophethood has it's origin from the Bible. In fact some have claimed Isa 61 is talking about Muhammad.

How do we know the scriptures were talking about the same contexts? Even the Jews disagree with all your assertions!

Jesus was given a book to read and He read it and told them openly "today this scripture is FULFILLED in your ears" which means they understand the scripture and reason they couldn't object to what He said.

Provide where they disagree with all my assertions.

Essentially, out of over 10 Billion people that have touch the earth, the probability that Jesus is the only one that could fulfill those no named prophecy is slim!

it can't be BILLIONS PEOPLE because the prophecies have precise location and specific people.

And Jesus FULFILLED THEM ALL.

Your theological assertions!

No! They all have Biblical support.

Okay!
But those Prophecies are not for Jesus!

They are for Jesus.

As proven in the Bible

"Then Jesus took them through the writings of Moses and all the prophets, explaining from all the Scriptures the things concerning himself." - Luke 24:27

MaxInDHouse:
Guy instead of arguing blindly here on NL why not go to all those places of worship where they use to sing:

JEHOVAH is your name, JEHOVAH is your name
Mighty father, great in battle
JEHOVAH is your name.

Usual method

Well, they have started correcting it now that is why you we hear something like:

Yahweh,
Your name is Yahweh
You're the miracle working God
Your name is Yahweh.

Yahweh eee
Yahweh eeh
You're glorious, so glorious in your name!

Stop them from using the name since you believe it's a mistake not just trailing only JWs up and down.

We're talking about Psalm 83:13 what appeared their isn't JEHOVAH.

Any translation that use Jehovah their is wrong.

Do you understand that simple fact?

MaxInDHouse:
NO!
That's why we are using NWT

But NWT used the word never found in the manuscripts.

Is that not fraudulent insertion?

but since you think the KJV is not reliable then why are you still using it?

I never said KJV is not RELIABLE I only said it made mistake for USING JEHOVAH which never appeared in the manuscripts and this is supported by many scholars.

Reason why we have other translations to compare.

Michael547:
You don't need to reply my post anymore

What is this, on the forum you own or have share in?

I've gotten to my busstop with you...thanks.

And I'm just reminding you about your busstop.

Or you didn't agree with those things I said?

The question was for Mr Ken4Christ.

Show me the rule on Nairaland that you applied.

MaxInDHouse:
I think King James made a mistake!

Yes!

My scholars have pointed that out as the FOUR Tetragrammaton letter never appear in that verse in any known manuscripts.

Do you then agree that NWT made mistake also for using that name in that verse?

Michael547:
So who owns the name 'JEHOVAH' according to the psalmist? Is it the Father or the Son?

You're still on this after your agreement yesterday that.

1. No person associated with the name Yahweh even in Psalms 110:1

2. You don't know the SINGULAR NAME Jesus placed The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit in Matt 28:19

MaxInDHouse:
"When he prepared the heavens, I was there; When he marked out the horizon on the surface of the waters" Proverbs 8:27

Who is the 'HE' that prepared the heaven and who is that 'I' who was there?

"Then I was beside him as a master worker. I was the one he was especially fond of day by day; I rejoiced before him all the time" Proverbs 8:30

So who carried out the creation activities the Master Worker or the one the Master Worker was beside?

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god.

“I am the Lord, and there is no other;
Besides Me there is no God. I will gird you, though you have not known Me;" Isa 45:5

“You shall have no other gods before Me." - Exo 20:3

But today you agreed that there's a god besides God and you have a god before God.

This one was in the beginning with God. All things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existence. What has come into existence. John 1:1-3

You focus should have been on this new highlight and not that previous one.

In Prov 8:27 someone prepared the heaven and someone was there as you highlighted.

Now, you said the person here ALL THINGS came into existence THROUGH HIM and WITHOUT HIM NOT EVEN ONE THING came into existence what has come into existence.

How can this be reconciled with Prov 8:23-27?

AbuTwins:
Scriptural truth or your theological position?

The scriptures.

What did the Prophets (Plural) wrote about him (Jesus) specifically and contextually anywhere in the Old Testament?

Plenty which I've mentioned few.

Why didn't you mention how Jesus avoided to use the law when the adulteress woman was brought to him?

He used it reason why those who brought the woman left without doing anything according to the law.

Also, to obey laws is different FROM FULFILLING THE LAW.

1. As far as I know, Isaiah 42 does not mention Jesus by name!

It doesn't need to mention Him by name.

2. It does not even mention God coming to become man or God's son!

Other scripture did that.

3. Isaiah 42 mentioned the characteristics of one God's servant not God's son nor God becoming man!

And only Jesus fits into those characteristics and Jesus and His Apostles all attested to that.

How is Jesus God's servant again?
He is God became man!
He is God!
He is God's servant again?

Yes He is God who became Man
He is God Almighty
He is The Prophet
He is God's Servant
He is the Son of God
He is the Son of Man

In fact He is everything.

And how is the Isaiah 42 verses exactly the same in Luke 4:17-21?

Isaiah 42:1-3
Here is My Servant, whom I uphold, My Chosen One, in whom My soul delights. I will put My Spirit on Him, and He will bring justice to the nations. He will not cry out or raise His voice, nor make His voice heard in the streets.
A bruised reed He will not break and a smoldering wick He will not extinguish; He will faithfully bring forth justice.…

Luke 4:17
The Spirit of the Lord is on Me, because He has anointed Me to preach good news to the poor. He has sent Me to proclaim liberty to the captives and recovery of sight to the blind, to release the oppressed, to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor.”…

Luke 4:17-21 is a direct quote from Isa 61:1-2 not Isa 42.

I only used Isa 42 as one of the PROPHETS Jesus fulfilled.

AbuTwins:
Of course you had to select what pleases you!

No! That is the scriptural truth not my selection.

He was meant to fulfill the law and Prophets!

The Law means Moses' writings and the prophets means what the prophets write about Him.

How did he fulfill the Prophets?

I just gave you three instances.

He fulfilled the Prophets for instance Isaiah 42

He even read it in their synagogue and said at the end "this day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears" - Luke 4:17-21