₦airaland Forum

TonyeBarcanista:
The poster is kidding

NgeneUkwenu:
I think it is high time, INEC applied the relevant sections of the 1999 Constitution.(as amended) and de register this Criminal Association called PDP.....

NgeneUkwenu:
I think it is high time, INEC applied the relevant sections of the 1999 Constitution.(as amended) and de register this Criminal Association called PDP.....

untildotcom:



I can now see that you are happy when people are unemployed and hopeless. You keep giving them hope without putting anything tangible on ground.

untildotcom:
I cannot say that online, you want to know my net worth so you come and kidnap me for ransom

It's not going to work!

untildotcom:
I'm not here to prove a point to you Mr. online engineer.

Even if I give you the name of my company, you will still say it doesn't exist until you pay me a visit.

Your type can never be satisified.

I don't play to the whims and caprices of mischief makers.

I contribute to the development of my society which you are a beneficiary.

untildotcom:
I pay my taxes dude, that's where government gets money from to build roads and provide other basic amenities. It's called IGR.

What is your own contribution? None! You run a church and don't pay taxes so we are not of the same contributory level. You benefit from my taxes dude!

Why do we have more religious centers than productive centers in Nigeria? You think! Pastor think!

You depend solely on the divine for everything.

untildotcom:
@engineerboat Your religiousness is a joke, it doesn't allow for productivity because it's a scam. You prey on the hopelessness of people to achieve your own selfish goal.

Read the article above!

You claim to be an engineer, what have you designed or fabricated. Which branch of engineering did you study or you are just an online engineer

Ovamboland:
What is the spiritual meter of Bill Gates and Mark Zuckerberg?

untildotcom:
You may not really understand what religion does to the psyche of the people. It makes people lazy and depend on the divine for everything. Don't forget Nigeria got independence in 1960 and six years later trouble started. Why didn't we keep insisting on building our country despite all the challenges? Like someone said most of the mega churches started in the 80's where they to advantage of the desperate situation in the country. Singapore went through tough times, go and read 'From third world to first,' by Lee Kuan Yew. In the 70's or 80's the Chinese used bicycle as means of transport. The world mocked them but they were planning for the future, they made a law for every family to have one child, that's strategic planning. Today they are a superpower borrowing Nigeria money that were once richer than them.

Have you been to churches were members pray for employment, infact the pastor will organise a programme for the unemployed youths in the church, he will ask them to sow to seed to gain employment. This youths will keep praying month in month out with no job.

Jobs can never be gotten through this way. It's a way churches scan their members and make money off them.

If you don't think religion plays a major role in the way this county is like this, why has our warehouses turn to worship centres and we see nothing wrong with it?

untildotcom:
Pastor there's no point taking it out personal on me. I don't dance to the tune of naysayers. It's a pity you cannot argue within a context, I'm not here to tell you about myself this is a public forum. But be rest assure that I'm not begging anyone to eat rather I'm responsible for the upkeep of many individuals and families.

It's not anybody that can have RC from CAC, it's not #2000 to get it. It cost thousands of naira.

If I tell you my chain of businesses you'll be jealous, so forget it.

untildotcom:
Oga the argument wasn't about me but about the proliferation of religious centers in a society where manufacturing and productive centers are non existent.

You don't expect me to start listing my business ventures online do you? But know that I pay tax and I have a TIN, which I know you don't. I have my RC certificate from CAC.

what do you do if I may ask? Are you a religious leader?

untildotcom:
Oga Pastor, I see that you are threatened by the new wave of ideology currently flowing and you know what that will be when people come to the realization that waiting on the divine intervention for physical things to come into place will never happen but rather but a concerted effort to change the status quo will.

Why do people want to travel abroad if I may ask you? How many people from other countries want to leave their countries with speed the way we do? You talk about failed government, yes that's why I said that rather than we insisting on building a nation when we got independence, we ran to our various religious centers to seek for divine intervention. Countries that stood their grounds and fought for their future are better off now, Brazil, India, Singapore. Today Nigeria flock to India to seek medical care meanwhile in Ngeria we have more religious centers than manufacturing companies and hospitals put together.

Is it the duty of the religious centers to do all the listed items above? So you have agreed with me that there's so much emphasis on religion such that, they have now taken the place of education in the society, skills acquisition, entrepreneurship training etc.

Is that what the gospel of Jesus Christ is all about? Religious centers are there to rip people off while making them feel good about thier hopeless state.

Like I said that's why schools, hospitals are in shambles and only the religious centers and their schools look good.

Let me also ask, these so called schools built by religious centers, do you guys engage in examination malpractice and other malpractices? The answer is yes, so who is fooling who?

Please do these schools set up by religious centers indulge in Examination malpractice and cheating?

untildotcom:
I won't go about telling you about myself but take it from me from I've employed more people than you if at all you are an employer of labour and my business is still expanding year in year out and I pay my taxes which has been use to put up infrastructures for the non tax paying organisations and people like you to make use of.

untildotcom:
Oga Pastor, I see that you are threatened by the new wave of ideology currently flowing and you know what that will be when people come to the realization that waiting on the divine intervention for physical things to come into place will never happen but rather but a concerted effort to change the status quo will.

Why do people want to travel abroad if I may ask you? How many people from other countries want to leave their countries with speed the way we do? You talk about failed government, yes that's why I said that rather than we insisting on building a nation when we got independence, we ran to our various religious centers to seek for divine intervention. Countries that stood their grounds and fought for their future are better off now, Brazil, India, Singapore. Today Nigeria flock to India to seek medical care meanwhile in Ngeria we have more religious centers than manufacturing companies and hospitals put together.

Is it the duty of the religious centers to do all the listed items above? So you have agreed with me that there's so much emphasis on religion such that, they have now taken the place of education in the society, skills acquisition, entrepreneurship training etc.

Is that what the gospel of Jesus Christ is all about? Religious centers are there to rip people off while making them feel good about thier hopeless state.

Like I said that's why schools, hospitals are in shambles and only the religious centers and their schools look good.

Let me also ask, these so called schools built by religious centers, do you guys engage in examination malpractice and other malpractices? The answer is yes, so who is fooling who?

Please do these schools set up by religious centers indulge in Examination malpractice and cheating?

untildotcom:
Why do Nigerians keep flooding embassies and high commissions of other countries to get visa and leave even when they have more than enough religious centers.

It's simple! Lack of productivity - jobs because there are no factories to aid production

untildotcom:
1. We may have to deal with this issue of tithing in another thread.

2. What's the correlation between a business that is managed well and tithe payment? So according to your analogy, businesses that crashed didn't pay tithes. A flawed thinking which justifies earlier assertion that instead of investing in man power development for more productivity the focus is more on paying tithes and also are you saying that businesses owned by non Christians who do not pay tithes would not flourish?

Let me also let you know that there's a natural law for giving, irrespective of your religion that's why any one who helps people is always blessed by God.

3. That assertion is very wrong! Government has business doing business and their business is to generate electricity, build roads, rails and airports to fast track movement of goods and services, build hospitals to sustain the well being of business men and women, provide loans to business, build and equip schools to provide the man power to keep growing the economy. They make their own profit called taxes at the end so government needs to be in business.

Religious centers do not awake the productiveness in any society because it's not their duty to do so. The government, schools are supposed to do it. The religious centers should attend to my spiritual well being, how to live a righteous life.

I'm am a Christian that doesn't believe in the prosperity gospel preached by most churches in a corrupt country like ours

untildotcom:
What's your point? They are not policy makers so most of these summits are speech making occasions which doesn't change anything even the leaders go to world conferences which doesn't also translate to something tangible.

A serious country that wants to grow will focus more on productive ventures, they plan and strategize for the future rather than try to wish away the inevitable through prayers.

untildotcom:
1. A place where the morals and values of the people are shaped with the hope of eternal destination but in our own case, the religious centres are not actually preaching this as the focus is more on material blessings and this can only be achieved by giving at the religious centres only, and also the religious centres too seem not to care about how these money came about, there's so much stealing going on and the religious centres are mute since they will be the beneficiary at the end, the country is very corrupt, so the religious centre has achieved 5% in that regards.

2. & 3. Like the previous answer to address our spiritual need to reverence our creator to also ensure that virtues of honesty, integrity, truthfulness, justice and righteousness are upheld in the society. "Righteousness exalts a nation...". Why are religious centres quite on the righteousness of the country where sin reigns supreme.

4. & 5. A manufacturing centre is where the productiveness of any society is hinged on. It is from this productiveness lies the answer to the economic growth of any society. So any society that relegates it's productive centres will always rely on religious centres for divine intervention which can never come.

untildotcom:
You have to get your facts right too my friend, if a private individual owns a school, the person pays tax but the church that owns a school or a hospital doesn't so who contributes more in terms of economic growth and so what if I want to evade tax and then I open a church first and then open a school? The churches are making profit without tax from these ventures.

That's not the point, a societal that focuses so much on religion as a panacea for growth and development wallows in poverty because their heads have refused to think and their hands have refused to work. The phones and other advancement in technology, space travel can never be achieved in a society like ours.

Our society is like a student who has an exam and thinks that if he or she goes to the religious center to pray and fast success will be theirs which can never happen, but another chap spends time in the library and laboratory without visiting any religious center will be very successful because all we are looking at is physical growth.

untildotcom:
you can only have pragmatic leaders in a society where the leaders themselves do not depend solely on divine intervention in nation building. It's all about the mindset, there's so much poverty and hunger in Africa while the real solution lies in agricultural productivity, the religious centers will invite members to their centers in the morning to pray rather than go to the farm to produce more food.

For my friend that is saying that building religious centers doesn't stop building of factories, you need to understand one thing that the essence of going to religious centers is for the people to get solutions to their problems, so if someone is unemployed the person will seek divine intervention in the unemployment, but consider this same person in a society where there is productivity and more jobs, the person will attend church for a different purpose like I earlier mentioned; morals, salvation and eternal destination.

If you think religion is not our undoing in this country then you are yet to visit other countries and see that the mindset is completely different.

Eddygourdo:
how can people invest in sme growth when we feel sowing of seeds, tithing and all other rubbish people do aare a panacea for poverty. As long as people still view a divine solution to every of life's ills then we can never develop infrastructually.


The bane of capitalist growth is the private sector, how can that area grow when a majority of people are throwing money voluntarily into non productive religious centres. Very much akin to waiting for manna from heaven in terms of infrastrutural and industrial growth.

untildotcom:
you can only have pragmatic leaders in a society where the leaders themselves do not depend solely on divine intervention in nation building. It's all about the mindset, there's so much poverty and hunger in Africa while the real solution lies in agricultural productivity, the religious centers will invite members to their centers in the morning to pray rather than go to the farm to produce more food.

For my friend that is saying that building religious centers doesn't stop building of factories, you need to understand one thing that the essence of going to religious centers is for the people to get solutions to their problems, so if someone is unemployed the person will seek divine intervention in the unemployment, but consider this same person in a society where there is productivity and more jobs, the person will attend church for a different purpose like I earlier mentioned; morals, salvation and eternal destination.

If you think religion is not our undoing in this country then you are yet to visit other countries and see that the mindset is completely different.

untildotcom:
the schools and hospitals you mentioned are for profit making built from people's contribution. Was this how the early missionaries did it.

I still insist, if we have 5000 religious centers and 20 manufacturing companies then there's a problem.

Eddygourdo:
that is the problem, you expect government to do everything. Yes the govt is non existent, but the role of private people in nation building isn't being utilized. The churches are worth more than all multinationals in nigeria. Imagine tax free unaccounted revenue accruing to be a few people who claim to have the account number of the most high where they remit these monies.

The op is simply saying, if all these monies being concentrated in the hands of a non-producttive sector like religion was put as private contribution to nation building, most of the problems which we have today that makes a lot to run to these churches will be eraadicated.

wolexy2020:
Nobody said religion is EVil and nobody is stopping you from worshipping God. The problem is Religion has been taken to the extreme by Nigerians and Africa in general. This is the bondage that the white man has instilled in us to keep us in check.

A Canadian once told me that if Nigerians build companies and manufacturing plants the way we build churches and mosques, Nigeria will be the leading country in the world. Majority of Nigerians are gullible.

Imagine a Nigerian having headache, just go to the hospital or get Aspirin, but the won't. They will drink anointing oil and wash their head with holy water and starting praying. Like it was said , God only help those who help themselves.
Nigerians have been brainwashed and it will take a very long time before we can be free from this bondage.

Churches build Universities for profit when their average member can't even afford the fees. I have had the privilege of going to church in other countries and I must tell you, Nigerian churches are scams. All they talk about is money money money.
If we continue talking about this cankerworm that has eaten deep into the fabric of our beloved Nigeria , it will take a long time .

This is my own opinion and I am entitled to it so don't quote me. If you have your own opinion about this issue, please say it.