₦airaland Forum

^^ Look, when did you qualify as a lawyer?

Have you heard of 'receiving stolen goods'?

They did not teach you the distinction between that and Stealing (or Theft as we used to call it)?

mabell:
Wait o! When your client pays you money and you win his case
Peradventure, you later realize that he is fraudulent, will you return the money back to him?

Ah, so you agree that your "church", Chris Embassy, is a business collecting fees/money from its 'clients'!

OK, then.


PS even Obama had more sense (or more "Holy Spirit" to order the return of 'improper' funds contributed for his campaign.

mabell:

Now if some guy steals one million naira and brings it to CEC as offering or tithe, who is to be called the thief or criminal? The man, the church ("herein called the business"?

Ask them o!

It is not only the guy who steals it that is a criminal; the person/organisation who receives the stolen money/goods knowingly is also a criminal! It is made worse when the receiver is told and knows that the money/property is stolen and then still refuses to return it!

Joagbajee:
@TONYE-t

It is commonly known how the guy dodges questions and answer questions with questions. Typical of charge and bailers . He will try to derail the thread and divert attention to other irrelevant issues. Like another man's phd!

Let me tell you why the PhD matters on this thread.

We are being asked to "respect" a person.

If the person is the type to buy a "PhD", is that a person to respect?

Will you respect a person who buys his way through university instead of working hard and properly for his/her degree?

Joagbajee:
@TONYE-t

It is commonly known how the guy dodges questions and answer questions with questions. Typical of charge and bailers . He will try to derail the thread and divert attention to other irrelevant issues. Like another man's phd!

See your life outside!  

When your ignorance is exposed, you start to look for straws to clutch at. Shebi, you were asking what the Criminal Code says about the "church"? Now my examples, even without explanation, show that you and your supporter are both talking nonsense.

Your "church" and your boss should know better to be receiving stolen money and stolen goods; what is more when you then KNOW because it is pointed out to you, the proper thing is to return the stolen money/property! But you worshippers of mammon are too greedy to do the decent thing.

By the way, also ask Ashimolowo if it is possible under the law for a church pastor to be regarded as misappropriating church funds. See, you can deceive your followers about what the Criminal code says or doesn't say --- but when you try it in a place like this, you will soon be exposed for both your ignorance and fraud.

For records and for records only (as I won't waste time on the penultimate above)

Does the Criminal Code say that a murder can be committed in "church"? Ask Reverend King!

Does the Criminal Code (or other statutory provision) say that a "church" could possibly be used for money laundering?

Does the Criminal Code say that a "church" can be guilty of child abuse? Ask the Rev Gilbert Deya and his wife.

Joagbajee:
What does criminal code say about offerings in church dude.?

You and Oyaks should go and get a lawyer to advise you on that.  

Joagbajee:
What does the law of God say about a pastor refunding money given in church?

Of course you will pretend not to have seen aletheia's post which addressed this earlier. Even if you didn't see it, your own "Holy Spirit" doesn't cleanse your conscience, doesn't write God's law in your heart. Of course your own spirit is the spirit of mammon and it is no wonder that such spirit prevents you from knowing, understanding or "doing" (since you people don't 'obey') the law of God

Typical.

Joagbajee:
You seem to be the one looking for table to hide under right now. Your lies have caught up with you.

There is a difference between a LAWYER and a "CHARGE AND BAIL!"

Have you now learned the meaning of "escape"? Does the statement "Jesus escaped" still mean, to you, that Jesus "ran away", that Jesus ran helter skelter?

Did your own "Jesus" hide ---- under the table, under the bed, under the pulpit?

Yes, my first ever solo case, then even only as a Youth Corper, was a charge and bail case which ended with a successful no-case submission. It actually earned a lot of accolades for various reasons that I won't go into now. It was my only ever charge and bail case and I am extremely proud of it.  

Joagbajee:
Which church do you attend? Where do you fellowship?  And why are you not afraid to use Gods name to lie.How did you receive the call? You think this is a joke?

Tell us where Oyakhilome got his "PhD" and I will tell you about my church.  

Joagbajee:
Quote it out na .  You want him to read it in secret? Let us read it too? We make open posts here sir.

Where in the law of God? Please quote it out. Thanks.

It will be over your head! You who don't know the meaning of "escape" --- which for you means Jesus was running helter-skelter!

Or that Jesus was hiding under the bed and under the table!

You think you can read and understand statutory provisions? You don't know your limits! Just keep to deceiving people of their money; if the other fellow is truly a lawyer, he will understand me and know what to do --- at least I'd expect him to.

Joagbajee:
Hebrews 5:4
. .  And no man taketh this honour unto himself but he that is called of God. . .

It applies to Oyakhilome as much as it applies to me!  

Meanwhile, I haven't yet forgotten the fake "PhD"!

Fake "anointing"; fake "ordination", fake "PhD".

Shiọọọọọ!

Barr rich:
What section of the criminal code are you quoting sir Enigma?

Read chapters 34-39 of the Nigerian Criminal Code.

By the way, what about the law of God - when a "pastor" deliberately refuses to return known stolen money/goods?

Joagbajee:
Jesus and paul were prophets and apostles. Authority goes with their office.  It doesn't apply to . . .  

Authority goes with my office, the office I was ordained into by Jesus Christ Himself, to rebuke and expose the likes of Oyakhilome.

So by virtue of the authority of my office as given to me by Christ, I confirm and declare that Oyakhilome is a false teacher, heretic deceiver and fraud.

Joagbajee:
Firstly , if a man claim he is of God, we ought to judge his doctrine by Gods word. If he is found to be wantin the bible says to reject him. God didn't make us spiritual policemen. . . .

Oyakhilome is found wanting, so we reject him! Finish.

Joagbajee:
If a man "opens" a church with wrong motive. It is between him and God. But one thing is clear. Ministry is of the holy spirit . If God didn't send a man, he will lack the power to function. Besides ,he cant last there. People will soon leave him. People have problems and you can't solve their problem if you're not sent because the power is in the calling.

People can't be deceived for long. If people under him can't be helped and nourished , they will go to other pasture where they can be fed. But God didn't ordain us to be attacking ministers . Jesus is the one building his church. He knows what to do about false prophets. Some have their judgement in the now ,others later.

Jesus and the apostles taught us to beware of false prophets and wolves in sheep clothing; we are also required to warn and to guard the members of the flock. See detailed explanation here https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-786926.192.html#msg9454526

Joagbajee:
Paul addressed the issue of wrong motive in preaching.

Philippians 1:15-18
15 Some indeed preach Christ even of envy and strife; and some also of good will: 16 The one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my bonds: 17 But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel. 18 What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice.

The same Paul rebuked quite a few people --- even mentioning them by name. And yes, we are happy if the gospel of Christ is preached by anyone. However, the prosperity "gospel" is NOT the gospel of Christ and its preachers can be decried from the very rooftops.


[snipped the rest of your post]

^^^ He (and his organisation) received stolen money and stolen goods; worse, he pointedly refused to return the stolen money/goods.

In Nigerian law, that is a criminal offence.

In the eyes of God . . . . ?

^ Now you are calling people "sons of belial" already! OK, I'll leave that for now.

How do you know that Oyakhilome is anointed by God for the "office" of "pastor"?

How do you know that Enigma is not anointed by God for the office of "pastor" and/or "teacher"?

If Enigma is anointed by God for the office of "pastor" and/or "teacher", then he is authorised to speak about Oyakhilome's false doctrine, heresies and fake "miracles".

"Occupy Ebonyi"  https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-796191.0.html

"Wise sayings" (as if! ) of Evangelical atheists (Part 1)*


1. Not collecting stamps is not a hobby
2. A child is born an atheist
3. Bald is not a hair colour
4. Are there any similarities between a dog and no dog?
5. The absence of colour is not a colour



* To be updated, refined etc as and when . . . .

^ Just like God anointed and ordained Enigma, Frosbel, aletheia etc.

Therefore as anointed and ordained of God, we are authorised to speak of Oyakhilome's false teachings and heresies.

Who ordained Oyakhilome?

Who "anointed" or "consecrated" him to/for the office of "pastor"?

Actually let me amuse myself with one of Joagbaje "specials":

Local journalist Simon Ateba says it's almost impossible to establish their true wealth. Simon takes the team to the headquarters of Christ Embassy. He claims that two years ago when he tried to take photographs of the building, security guards dragged him inside and beat him until he fainted. Soon after he tells this story, security guards drag Rhodes into the building by his belt. He escapes unscathed.

@ Pastor Joagbaje --- what does "escapes" mean in that quote? He "ran away" as you claimed Jesus did when the word "escaped" was used in a Bible passage/version? Or does it mean he "hid" --- again as you claimed Jesus did (whether under the table or under the pulpit we don't know)?

. . . and thug --- or head of thugs at least (even leaving aside the false teaching, heresies and fake "miracles". 

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/unreported-world/4od#3252995

Local journalist Simon Ateba says it's almost impossible to establish their true wealth. Simon takes the team to the headquarters of Christ Embassy. He claims that two years ago when he tried to take photographs of the building, security guards dragged him inside and beat him until he fainted. Soon after he tells this story, security guards drag Rhodes into the building by his belt. He escapes unscathed.

So much for "walking in love"!

^^^ If they approach you inappropriately, let them know it.

If they are just doing their own thing without getting you involved, let them be.

Fine.

So why not let those who have had direct experience etc be?

Kay 17:
@enigma

How do you KNOW there is God? At least you were not born with it.

@ronke

There is no god! You are a LIAR! No god exists!

How do you know there is no god and that no god exists?

Occasionally, I will make interjections or general observations.

This particular interjection is necessary to make clear the distinction between regular/ordinary or 'passive' (in a nice sense) atheists on the one hand and the invariably obnoxious evangelical atheists on the other hand. Here is another one I made earlier:

Enigma:
^^^ In every day life we have dealings each day with atheists. Amicable, no friction; some we can even call friends.

The problem is with the evangelical atheist, usually ignorant and dishonest and maybe also suffering some kind of angst, who comes fulminating out of his ignorance and dishonesty. They then get angry and petulant when their conceit is punctured and they get shown up for the dumbasses that they are for the most part.

Evangelical Atheist Mantras that many of them do not realise actually point back to themselves!*   

1. The Dunning-Kruger Effect
2. No true Scotsman fallacy    (one of them was going on recently about 'no true atheist' - much to my silent amusement  )
3. Burden of proof is on you
4. You are religionists      (well, evangelical atheists are religionists too - proven conclusively  )
5. Religion is evil  (well, that includes the also conclusively proven evangelical atheism religion too  )
6. Define god  (our friends are too ignorant or dishonest to see that they can themselves "define" god!)
7. God of the gaps   (hmmm, as if "evolution" and theories on the origin of the universe are proven "facts"
8. Infinite regress  (hmmm, as if evangelical atheists have an explanation for what is behind the "singularity" or the "first cause"!  )




* To be updated as more come to mind or attention.

Deities and 'transcendental beings' of the Evangelical atheists*

1. Flying spaghetti monster
2. Invisible pink unicorn
3. Sky daddy
4. Russell's teapot
5. Flying dragons
6. Fairies
7. Zeus
8. Banana god
9. Sussicorn



* To be updated as and when another one comes to mind or attention.  

Kay 17:
@Enigma

Its a valid point to make a distinction among transcendental beings. Zeus is thought to be imaginary, so its up to the Christian to emphatically stress on the superiority of his God . . .

It is not our business if some want to make a distinction between 'transcendental beings' like zeus, sussicorn, invisible pink unicorn, flying elves, russell's teapot and now banana god etc etc.

We know of only one God.

This one simply has to be here!

From http://www.truefreethinker.com/articles/flying-spaghetti-monster-invisible-pink-unicorns-et-al-part-1-4

On the Flying Spaghetti Monster, the Invisible Pink Unicorns, et al.

Many atheists exhibit a lack of knowledge of the very theism against which they most often, if not exclusively, argue - the Bible's Judeo-Christianity. Worse yet, they think that they are well versed by claiming that they were "raised Christian" (whatever that means), "went to Sunday School," "was an altar boy," "saw the movie (hyperbole intended)," etc.

I am not one to claim that you must be a theologian to speak on, or against, Christianity nor a scholar to speak on, or against, the Bible. That is to be reserved for scholarly settings. Yet, one ought to be at least somewhat versed on the subject that one seeks to critique and be skeptical enough to double check both what one is being told as well as one's own positions.

[b]I find that many atheists not only lack knowledge of Christian theology and the contents and contexts of the Bible but lack a basic understanding of natural theology / general revelation, which seeks to infer the cause of the universe from nature (nature not meaning biosphere alone but the universe as a whole).

Take a lack of knowledge of natural theology / general revelation - add to it a lack knowledge of Christian theology and the contents of the Bible - mix that with a typically early age rejection of Christianity - blend it with the early, Sunday School, age understanding of theology - and finally bake it in the presuppositional oven of self-professed erudition and what do we end up with?

We end up with atheists seriously arguing that the concept of God as postulated by Christian theology is on a par with postulating the existence of imaginary friends, fairies, celestial teapots, sky daddies or Flying Spaghetti Monster and Invisible Pink Unicorns.[/b]

I plan to keep this thread updated periodically with postings or listings of evangelical atheists' standard arguments or tactics. I'll start here with a general observation I first made earlier on the "contributions" of the evangelical atheists and how much of their "efforts" is what worth addressing and to what extent. 

Enigma:
Well, it is indeed true that several of the evangelical atheists and some other anti-Christians here rarely say anything constructive and, accordingly, some of us don't take them seriously other than to point out their own dogmas, absurdities, inconsistencies, intellectual folly, sleight of hand and even intellectual dishonesty.

Point no 10 in "How to be an effective (evangelical) atheist": https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-298119.0.html

10. Always bring up examples like the spaghetti monster, Zeus, and Santa Claus (edit: now add 'banana god') to prove that if you must believe in one God then you have to believe in all of them, right?!

That reminds me! I plan to keep that thread updated periodically; might make a start now!