₦airaland Forum

Ascony:
@kay17. if u really took time to read my posts u will see av already answered your questions,
nothing magical happened as u might be thinking. it was just a thought process that lead me to where i am now. simply put, IMO there just has to be a God, watevr it is dat sets this whole universe in motion, wat other name is fit to call that but God? i dnt know wat or who God is yet (am still getting there, maybe i may never get there), just understand that IMO God isn't some thing in some location, God is d sum of everything that IS, both d ones seen and unseen, u can call it nature or the universe but the term GOD just encompases it all.

@plaetton, @jenwitemi
thanx for your advices. i refuse to be guided by sentiments at dis critical time of my life, dats why i won't cling to any particular religion, but like i said am not putting any religion aside, i will tap and learn from all of them cos i believe there is some element of truth in all of them

The Supreme Being

ronkebp:
^^^^^^ There is only one GOD!!! the others' are 'gods', so do not confuse yourself any further.

This is a very good and true statement that many people simply do not understand.

A parallel statement would be for example:

- There is only one Supreme Being (except, often people do not pay enough attention to that word 'being' in particular).

Ascony:
@knowjack
maybe my mistake here is using HE as d pronoun. wat if i retrace it?  wat if change it to IT? will it make sense then?
u see dts why i  said it will really be hard to explain (jeez! am now sounding like d christians, lol),  am still in d process u know so i dnt have all d clear answers now.
@ plaetton. i  must confess,  lol. u just loosed a nut in my brain now haha , maybe u r right, maybe wrong, but if u really understood my post, when i say God is everything, i dnt know d kind of thought it sparks in your head,  but like i said am still in dis journey of discovery,  ii never claimed to have all d answers now

@Mr Globe
i could even go to the mosque or d buddhist temple. wherever i feel d presence of God. dats why i said dat i prefer to call myself a believer for now.

@ everyone
I just believe there has to be a God, eventhough am not able to make sense of God yet. but I mean look at it dis way, the chaos and order, it may all be a big drama, a big theatre, and we r all just acting. u do your part and sooner or later its end of movie, u r dead.
maybe the only gift we really get from God is life, and we all hav to live it fully and take watever life gives. maybe dats why some folks say that we are nothing but pencil in the hand of the creator, maybe we just have to take watever God sketches and be content and grateful with it eventhough it seems its not enough . . .or maybe God is like a tool or a power source that we can use to our benefits ? maybe God is not actually omnipotent. maybe God needs us to be complete, maybe dats why we were created  
maybe am right, or maybe am just going bananas  :/  :/

I think you are doing extremely well so far, rather well! I'm sure you will find that which you seek --- and with it, peace.

^^^ That one's criminality goes beyond fraud and even extends to thuggery.

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/unreported-world/4od#3252995

Local journalist Simon Ateba says it's almost impossible to establish their true wealth. Simon takes the team to the headquarters of Christ Embassy. He claims that two years ago when he tried to take photographs of the building, security guards dragged him inside and beat him until he fainted. Soon after he tells this story, security guards drag Rhodes into the building by his belt. He escapes unscathed.

I'm shocked and my gob is well and truly smacked that so far no one has mentioned the great man himself!

The Farting Preacher

[flash=400,300]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OPw-k3ib2U[/flash]

There is a very significant difference between the two following statements:

1. This is a valid (or possible) interpretation of X passage

2. This interpretation of X passage "is just as valid" as . . . .

The report of Ateba's beating by Christ Embassy thugs can also be found at http://www.nigerianbestforum.com/index.php?topic=22522.0;wap2


Extract

I tried to explain to them that I believed that a church is a public place and that I did not know that I could be subjected to such violence in a church. They asked what I meant by that statement. It was the lady that said so. The lady was the worst person there. She looked at my suit and insulted it. By the way, that was my best suit. I bought that suit for the Diamond Awards for Media Excellence, because I won an award for action photography. That was the suit I wore that day. I bought it two days to the award. It is my best suit for now. But she looked at my suit and said, ‘See your suit, journalist. If you are poor, you should come to this place so that we can give you money.’ I did not know what to say. She got angry and said that if I kept looking at her she would slap me. I was shocked. I mean, a lady behaving this way? Later, they took us to another office. They checked the camera but they did not see anything because we had not taken any shot. Still, they refused to let us go. They started advising us. They told me never to come to Christ Embassy again. I told them that it is a public place because it is a church. They became furious and started giving me all kinds of blow. Then the chief security officer hit me on the left side of my head. He gave me a blow and I fell to the ground. I was not unconscious, I was just dazed, but I could hear what they were saying. They said I should sit on the floor. I tried to sit down but I fell again. They started laughing. They said maybe I was possessed. They said that was how their pastor used to deliver people at deliverance sessions. They said if I wanted to die, I should die. They said M.K.O Abiola died in this country and nothing happened. They started making jest of my shoes. I bought the shoes with 25 per cent of my salary and they were laughing at it. They said it was poverty that was deceiving me. Ah! They said all kind of things. Meanwhile my editor was trying to call me, but they had confiscated my phone.

^^^ Na Christ Embassy (Oyakhilome) thugs dey do the beating down of people. In fact like say Seyi Rhodes* no use Britico connections, himself for don get beat down like Simon Ateba previously. As it happens they only "wọdi-ed" him i.e. dragged him by his belt -- he escaped with that small one unlike Ateba. (edited) 

Simon Ateba, a journalist born and bred in Cameroun, got the beating of his life on Sunday when some security men attached to the headquarters of Christ Embassy in Lagos beat him until he fainted. Ateba relives his ugly experience in this interview with SESAN OLUFOWOBI. Why were you beaten up by the security men at the headquarters of Christ Embassy.

Unfortunately, I can only find a cached version of the report in The Punch (somewhat appropriate name  Punch/punchbag  ) presently: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:Z5201G385_IJ:www.punchng.com/Articl.aspx%3Ftheartic%3DArt200902281594273+simon+ateba&cd=11&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk&client=firefox-a


* The Seyi Rhodes guy gets max props for courage in the way he put hard questions bluntly to both Okotie and the guyman or fireman or whatever he calls himself.

Edited for typos and some xtra 

@Image123

Sorry, I overlooked this yesterday. Of course, I get where you are coming from and you actually have a point about unnecessary "abuse"; also it is right to say that criticism should be primarily about doctrine i.e. of false doctrine. I think though that those words I emphasise leave room for "necessary" references to personalities and practices --- especially deceitful and fraudulent practices.

Cheers. 

I should note for the records that so far my friend here is just indiscriminately copying and pasting material (including false information) from propaganda websites like http://www.crusadewatch.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=section&id=21&Itemid=54

As I have said before, my friend knows and he knows that I know that he has not read the Norman Lewis book --- and in fact he does not really know what is in the book and what is not.

^^^ Well, I'll give you credit for one thing! At least you are trying desperately not to lie that you've read the book ---- hence the avoidance tactics.

Look, at the moment all we are trying to establish is whether or not you have in fact read the book. I repeat that you know and you know I know that you have not read the book. 

Once we sort out the issue of whether or not you have read it, I will then explain what is in fact in the Norman Lewis book and what is not in it. 

OK, first I repeat what I said before: you know you have not read the book; and you know I know you have not read the book.

Then, if you claim you have read the book or have a copy of it here goes:

Test no 1: Please state the year in which the Panares "New Testament" that you refer to was published.

I should warn you that this is the simplest of the tests I have for you.

OK, I'm still watching! But I'll tell you now, if you had read the book, you'd know what is actually in it and what is not in it.

As I said, I'm watching; the vulture is a patient bird.

You know you haven't read it; and you know I know you haven't read it.

^^ Again, I put it to you that you have clearly not read the book and you are just copying some nonsense you saw on some websites.

^^ Guilty conscience made this one self-identify.  Anyway, as I pointed out on the other thread ----

That's why you were spamming the forum with several cut and paste jobs all over the place both in starting and within threads!

Until toba cut you down to size. 

Cool!

^^^ That's why you were spamming the forum with several cut and paste jobs all over the place both in starting and within threads!

Until toba cut you down to size. 

Cool!

@ Frosbel

Remember, as advised on the other thread: if you get allegations of copy and paste from evangelical atheists in particular, all you have to say is 'pot . . . kettle . . . black'!

Mention names like Harris, Dennett, Dawkins, Huber etc etc etc all copied and pasted at length, boring length, by evangelical atheists.

^^^  You don't need to sue the evangelical atheists in particular

Just tell them pot --- kettle --- black! Mention names like Harris, Dawkins, Dillahunty, James Huber etc all copied and pasted at length, boring length, by our evangelical atheist friends! 

In light of Image123's posts in particular, here is something I first posted elsewhere: https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-762611.0.html#msg9189169


It is one thing to be honest but to get certain things wrong. That happens basically to every Christian, every Christian group or grouping, every Christian denomination (or "abomination" as some say  ). In that case, criticism may still be necessary but its manner admittedly should be gentler.

On the other hand when it comes to deceit or when you are dealing with people who have infiltrated Christianity and deliberately want to pervert its teaching for personal gain or people who are reckless about its teaching as long as they make personal gain, or anti-Christs and other satanic agents, it will be very foolish to say "don't criticise" or "be gentle".

Jesus Christ was not gentle with the deceivers, he had very strong harsh words for them; the apostles were not gentle with deceivers, they had very strong and harsh words for them. In fact virtually each book of the New Testament warns against deceivers, false teachers and the like and often with strong and harsh words. In the first place the Bible urges us to "test every spirit" and if we find that we are dealing with contrarian spirits we must expose them and warn others; it is our duty to be vigilant and it is also our duty to be concerned about the welfare of the flock of Christ --- everywhere.


---- Duty to test every spirit
1 John 4

1 Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.

--- Duty to contend for the faith
Jude

3 Dear friends, although I was very eager to write to you about the salvation we share, I felt I had to write and urge you to contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to the saints. 4 For certain men whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are godless men, who change the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord.

--- Jesus words about false teachers and deceivers
Matthew 7

15 “Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16 By their fruit you will recognize them.

Matthew 7

21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

Matthew 24

5 For many will come in my name, claiming, 'I am the Christ,' and will deceive many.

Also Matthew 24:11 etc


--- Apostolic warnings about false teachers and deceivers
2 Peter 2

1 But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves. 2 Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute. 3In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.

Jude

4 For certain men whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are godless men, who change the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord.

Acts 20

28 Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood. 29 I know that after I leave, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock. 30[b] Even from your own number men will arise and distort the truth in order to draw away disciples after them[/b]. 31 So be on your guard! Remember that for three years I never stopped warning each of you night and day with tears.

and several other places etc etc etc

One important last point to remember: the false teachers that Jesus and the apostles warn about are inside the Church; they have infiltrated and are still infiltrating the Church. If they do not claim to be Christians, it will be far easier to recognise them; but they come disguising themselves as agents angels of light (like satan their father) and that makes it harder for some well-meaning people to recognise them for what they are. If we are not watchful and if we keep saying "don't make negative comments" we will be negligent and open ourselves to being deceived; we will also be negligent in being shepherds of God's flock.

We don't want to end up like the people warned about in the passage below which is one of the things that could happen to those negligently or wilfully following false teachers!

1 Timothy 4

1 The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.

Amujale:
What makes you say that? If you want to create a new topic on the disection of the journals written by Lewis then you can create a new thread and i will be glad to join the discussion; meanwhile there's NO need to derail this particular thread over crazy assumptions like the one you just made.

Ah, so you haven't actually read the book obviously - just like I said.

I won't 'derail' this particular thread and I'll leave you to carry on with your charade.

@ Amujale

I put it to you that you have not read the Norman Lewis book and that you are just repeating some nonsense that you saw on misinformed websites.

@ Amujale

I put it to you that you have not read the Norman Lewis book and that you are just repeating some nonsense that you saw on misinformed websites.

I like the following sequence.

Enigma:
Any person who thinks he can prove through science or logic that God does not exist is either a beginner or a dunce or intellectually dishonest. It really should be elementary that for a person (or science for that matter) to be able to prove that God does not exist, the person (or science) would have to be omniscient. Thus all these juvenile requests (which I called childish sophistry elsewhere) asking for a "definition" of God are really pathetic and a sheer waste of time. It is amusing that it is the same request that the evangelical atheists make in a number of presently ongoing threads. They keep playing the same broken record ---- when they should change tune already.

Oh, and on the point whether something preceded the universe, the evangelical atheists, if they want to be intellectually honest, do not need to ask silly questions here; instead, let us see them engaging with the well known arguments e.g. distinguishing between a necessary being and contingent beings or arguments for e.g. a Prime mover, a First Cause, an Uncaused cause ------ the kind of thing that eventually persuaded the evangelical atheists’ long time champion, Antony Flew, to renounce atheism as the evangelical atheists seem to hate to hear.

Gray Beard:
Dem no fit, e pass demm mumu brain

Enigma:
Na their very problem be dat! Dat's why dem only fit ask "define god"; "do you believe in Sussicorn" and all kind of silly stooopid questions that really should not be associated with people even with just pretensions to intellectualism!

OLAADEGBU:
@Amujale,

You have been deceived by the web of satan's lies. . . . .

^^^ It is not only web of satan's lies, it is also lies on the web!

Many people are ready to believe anything they read on the web that is "critical" of Christianity --- without a simple cursory check whether the material is true. I remember that this same poster (I believe) posted some material about a book which in truth was critical of missionaries to some Indian tribes but with sensationalised claims on the web which the poster did not even take time to check if they were in the book in the first place; in fact, I would wager that the poster did not actually read the book.

Then we have also had the debacle of the Leopold "Letter" --- which in fact was first proved to be a forgery very shortly after it emerged on the web in 2005 --- and which no serious person refers to since then. The posters like cold and others who were making noise about the "Letter" promptly disappeared once hard questions began to emerge on the concened thread.

We've also had the claim, with theatrics of one evangelical atheist, about the so-called "Willie Lynch Letter" --- another document long discredited as false!

Unfortunately, many Christians too do not take the time to check these claims! What is more, Christians need to realise that many of the antagonists of the faith (some being evangelical atheists and some being of other faiths and religions) are wholly unscrupulous and so dishonest that they think nothing of putting deliberate falsehoods or misrepresentations out there for undiscerning people to swallow!

It is to be said also of course that deliberate falsehood or misinformation on the part of Christians is by no means acceptable either.

How does one know that a "church" or even oneself is focused on the prosperity "gospel" which is no gospel?

Ask yourself the following and try to answer as honestly as possible?

Why do I want to go to church?

If one is going to church because one believes doing so and also performing some rituals (like paying "tithes" it will lead to some material gain like money, jobs, wife, husband, university admission, good health and so on ----- then the likelihood is that one's heart is set for the prosperity "gospel" false message. There is a need to BEWARE!

If a church promises these things money, jobs husband/wife, admissions etc, as long as you perform rituals like "tithes" and "offer 7", it is almost certainly a prosperity "gospel" "church" preaching a false message contrary to the message of Christ. I would say FLEE!

Caution: it is not wrong for one to pray, as well as work, for money, jobs, husband/wife, admission etc; it is not even wrong for a church to pray for these things. However, they are not the focus of Christianity. When they are made the focus and purpose, then something is seriously wrong and alarm bells should start ringing.

Unfortunately, I must admit that this is a hard message. But then bear in mind "wide is the way . . . . but narrow is the way . . . . ."

One cardinal rule:

It is safest to avoid ANY church where their focus is (or even where they teach) the prosperity "gospel"!

The prosperity "gospel", which is no gospel is contrary to the teachings of Jesus Christ as well as of the apostles.

This in wake of Dr Sign Fireman

violent:
I have always maintained that if you give 10 percent of your money to a church/pastor who owns a Jet, while millions of people die of starvation in east africa, what you are practising is NOT Christianity, it's called idiocy!

Again @Image123

Meanwhile nna, when you dey reply my kweshun above please take into account the post below so --- especially in relation to that reference to the "fathead pastor"!

violent:
I have always maintained that if you give 10 percent of your money to a church/pastor who owns a Jet, while millions of people die of starvation in east africa, what you are practising is NOT Christianity, it's called idiocy!

@Image123

Nna bros, when you do finish please tell us how to describe or address Dr Sign Fireman of https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-791491.0.html

Our Man of God?
Our Father in the Lord?
Our Apostle?
Our Pastor?
A False teacher?
Just another hustler?

Oh by the way also remind us how to address Rev Dr King of Kirikiri?

Meanwhile, I've just remembered a couple more things from the litany of the evangelical atheists.

- Babel fish
- The watchmaker

I'm sure that one day the others that have been identified on a number of other threads will migrate to this one. It would be good to have a decent compendium on a thread like this.