OLAADEGBU:
Did Jesus abolish the Law or not?

Matthew 5:17 and Ephesians 2:14-15
No:
"Think not that I am come to destroy the Law or the prophets; I did not come to destroy, but to fulfil" (Matthew 5:17).
Yes:
"For He is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of partition between us; Having abolished in His flesh the enmity, even the Law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in Himself of twain one new man, so making peace" (Ephesians 2:14-15).

Olaas baba!!! my sunday school teacher

make i put interesting twist for this kweshion and then run to romance or politics section

TWIST 1
If using the English version of the bible
Jesus said he has not come to destroy the law or the prophets.
He didn't say "I am not going to destroy the law"
.....Context is everything

Its like this
Imagine Buhari says "My goal for coming to power is not for the prosecution of GEJ, Obasanjo and IBB "
"I have only come to cleanse Nigeria of corruption both past and present"

...Do we get it? someone say uhn uhn

TWIST 2
I recently realised (or gleaned) that if a British person runs to Syria to kill someone and runs back
the British government will not charge him for murder, whereas, the Syrian government will surely hang him if they catch him
Juxtaposing this,
the Law, even if it is still standing like Iroko, is only applicable to people under its jurisdiction

..but someone might scream, Noooo, its the law of God, so its universal
so I thought, until I noticed new testament writers absolving God of it and instead calling it the law of Moses given by angels


Ok, but are you not an israelite anymore? someone might ask
Nope, I always remembered being a Nigerian
and besides, the law was only applicable after Moses instituted it, In order words, no Israelite before Moses generation was under the law
As a christian I might argue that I am of Abraham,but definetly not of Jacob, so my lineage is not within the confines of the law whether by grace or hard Nigerian flesh

TWIST 3
A comb is mean to straighten your hair
the emphasis is not on the comb, but on the hair

The comb might be made of exquisite imperishable material ...no problem, but its a comb
the power of the comb is only because you use it on your hair

You can decide that you want a new comb, or that want to start having skin cut
you are not bound to the comb

...he who the son of man as set free, is free indeed

MuttleyLaff:
I love Kei144,
,,,

mmmhhhh
thanks

Kei144:
What exactly is the meaning of salvation, in Christianity?......

This is part of what I think, ..a rough hypothesis perhaps

After the fall of Adam, his family began to seek for wholeness/protection and scheme for it
salvation to his kids was construed as the the desire for God to grant them good 'harvest' and protect the fruits of their labour

Adam and his wife had also told their kids what happened in Eden
they told them how things were very easy before they fell
they also told them that God had said that a seed of theirs would defeat Satan and restore mankind to his lost glory

Cain and Abel felt that they could be the seed that God was speaking about and so wanted to attract God to choose them
this also meant salvation to them

This lead them to making sacrifices to God
After that Sacrifice recorded in the Torah,
Cain was rejected while Abel was accepted <there is a logical gap here: was after the sacrifice the first time God spoke to them?>
Cain was upset and jealous, so he killed Abel
Everything, every essence of Abel was in agony and revolt.
It could not believe that his hope for being the chosen one had being quashed by Cain
hence God said, "the blood of your brother Abel cries out for vengeance"

As men began to multiply, they also took with them this understanding of a time long gone when everything was perfect
Great grand pa Adam and Eve were around for a long time to tell them the stories of Eden

Each person or most people wanted Gods salvation for the short term and sometimes for the long term
the short term salvation were for God to grant Eden like grace, success and protection to their labour and being
the long term salvation aspiration was that either they or their lineage be the chosen one to birth the seed that will restore Eden



...tbc someday in the future

MuttleyLaff:
Salvation IS NOT total freedom from Satan's slavery, but Redemption IS total freedom from Satan's slavery
a redeemed human being can fully belong to God

Jesus redeems us so we can have salvation ........

please expand on this view of yours

MuttleyLaff:

........ In layman's terms, salvation is being saved from imminent destruction
Salvation, simply, is getting protected from destruction
or getting delivered from some extremely serious and not-good-at-all situation
................

Excellent
I feel like giving you a bear hug

umhhhhh
girl not bad
thank God say femi no get dangote money
im for turn everybody sister to im girlfriend

Imanuelle:
Did he sit on his coat or what?

Too rough.

Its not the typical coat
we tend to call in a jacket
its rough because that's the style

italo:


.......I will give the answers that have been revealed to the Church. End of Story. All my knowledge is from the Catholic Church that has the spiritual authority to teach God's people. The same authority and with which they compiled the Bible in the fourth century........

.......I am open to learning christian doctrine from God's infallible Church. However, the early Church warned us to flee from false teachers bringing new doctrines like "water baptism is expired."......

aha

If you've decided that your only source of learning is your church. that's fine
Our arguments or discussions then feels almost like a woman dating a man who they both know will never be hers -fruitless

and its also like I would typically say to some MOG indoctrinated fellas here who strongly defend biblical positions their pastors have taken
I'd rather discuss with their knowledge sources -their MOGs

finally,
Yo know that Jeremiah the prophet once invited the children of Jonadab to drink in the house of God as instructed by God
they came, but refused to drink. They said that Jonadab their father had instructed them on how to live, and will keep to it.
Interestingly, God blessed them for such commitment and rebuked Judah for the recalcitrant behaviour.

...I consequently believe that you have blessings for being commited to your own christian tradition

italo:
The moral of the above story is: no answer to my question.

If you know so little then I think you should be learning not teaching.

We never know it all my dear friend
we know a lot in somethings and little in others
I teach what I know (or believe I know), and learn what I know little about

the challenge a number of folks have is that they think they know but actually know nothing
and with such haphazard knowledge being masqueraded as the full bouquet of knowledge
they end up thinking that arguments are a battle which they must win
and thus tend to speak authoritatively on issues they have sparsely meditated on

If you being so knowledgeable on the things of hell as to be a teacher for all things
I decide to question you rigorously about hell, the way a typical atheist would
i doubt you'd give applaud-able answers

In conclusion
.... I think you should be open to learning and not throwing yourself forth as a teacher who has gained infallible mastership
** I thought to also add that someone 'not being an expert' in something doesn't neccesarily translate to the person 'knowing so little'
Interstingly, I do know all the teachings about hell within the concept of christianity (probably more than you do), however, it's not something that I have spent time meditating on, neither am I keen to discuss my meditations so far within such a maze as the present thread ****

italo:


So the Baptism Peter talked about in Acts 2:38 was not for remission of sins?

i think Peter was refering to Baptism in water for the remission of sin here

The baptism in 1Pet3:21 doesn't save? Or it wasn't water baptism?

I think the writer of this bit (especially if it was Peter) had began to gradually through experience and greater knowledge realise that his earlier conception of water baptism as the sole ritual that brought about 'salvation' had some gaps hence he writes:

1 peter 3: 21Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you-- not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience-- through the resurrection of Jesus Christ


Like you, I once believed in the exclusivity of water baptism
and then like Peter in his later epistle, I soon began to question this belief based on my experiences and meditation on the person and message of Christ

I was born a christian, and always believed in Christ,
when I gave my life to Christ lordship later in life,
I 'felt' the cleansing of sins like a weight was lifted out from me,
I then went on to receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit some weeks later

Years later, I got baptised, and felt none of these.
I'll rest my case here.

italo:


Baptism is the ordinary way to enter the Christian life. However, if a person cannot be baptized, through no fault of theirs, God can still accept them into this life.

.
.

Are you saying all who never heard of Jesus before they died but did good according to the dictates of their conscience shall go to hell?

Fortunately for me, I am not a hell doctrine expert
at least not yet, so I cant answer this

Similarly, I ask you who say that we are saved by faith and baptism of the spirit...

I'm gonna deviate a little into a wider concept

I'll first say this, I have gently tried to encourage Olaadegbu and Frosbel who happen to be bible scholars to help research and bring to the fore discussion on what SAVE meant during bible times and the early days of the church .not what we presently understand it as which is being saved from hell.

By present beliefs on the concept of SAVE suggests that folks who never heard of Christ whether they did good or not might have been saved at one point or another. This is of course outside the concept of the doctrine of hell which I know little about.

I believe that when Adam would have used the word SAVE, he probably wasnt thinking of hell
I also believe that when many in the old testament times talked about save, they had something else in mind

MuttleyLaff:
I earlier alluded to similar with the below repost

Water baptism is a shadow of the real deal,

It is less powerful than the real baptism of the Holy Ghost and Fire.

Like tithing, it is past its "best before" date but people still use tithing as well as water baptism for sentimental or ignorance reason.

God has no problem with both, as that's the level such presently are.
...

i think i agree with you in all of these

italo:


Paul already believed, yet he had to be baptized for his sins to be washed away.

It's in Acts 22:16.

Was he saved when his sins were not yet washed away?

still trying my best to conform within your line of argument
then my rough answer would be yes,
he was 'saved' twice or rather washed from sin twice
1st when he believed and 2nd when he was baptised
remember that this closely tallies with your explanation that after believe, if there is no oppurtunity for water baptism, then God accepts you until such a time water is available.
I would then extend it to mean that once water is available for baptism, your sins come back patiently waiting to be washed away a second time


however, if I am to approach it from my own belief system, I have two theories,
one which I'd explain like this:

Paul believed that Jesus was indeed Christ after his Saulish encounter .. no sin was washed here
Ananias then lead him to accept Christ as his master
this acceptance was baptism into Christ which Paul outwardly demonstrated or connected to by being baptised in water and calling on Christ to be his master
it was the acceptance of Christ's lordship that washed away his sins and made him whole
it so happened that the baptism by water happened almost same time as Paul's acceptance of Christ's lordship hence it appears to be that the water is what washed away his sins

I think this also confused Peter, because he had always thought that water baptism was the only sign of acceptance
so when he was preaching to the gentiles and they believed, accepted Christ and the Holy Spirit descended on them with them barely saying anything
he was awe struck and just went ahead to baptise them without other rituals which he might have requested they perform before baptism

@italo

I just now read an earlier post you wrote which answers the question I raised above^^
I don't completely agree with you, but accept that you are have the rights to your beliefs

My belief is that at the point you accept Jesus, you are given a new life (baptised into Christ)
I believe that acceptance is primarily in the heart, but is commonly intertwined with various kinds of physical demonstrations such as

(1) water baptism (whether by immersion or sprinkling),
(2) confession with your mouth or
(3) other symbolisms (for example, if one is dumb, muttering or shedding tears might be that conscious acceptance link into the new birth)

italo:


For me, there is an indication/proof that the Holy Spirit spoke through those men. .....

fair enough. I'll work with your belief. Now back to your verses which were:

(1)Act22:16 And now why do you delay? Get up, be baptized, and have your sins washed away, calling on his name.’

(2) "Then Peter said to them, Repent, and be baptised every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit" (Acts 2:38)

Looking at both verses it seems to indicate a process
baptise>> sins washed away >> then Holy Spirit gift received

I guess we all agree with this process. the challenge we all have is agreeing to what constitutes baptism

the original tradition seemed to indicate that water baptism was done inside water. I'm sure you and I both agree with this
Baptists and those after them believe that water baptism involves being dipped into water, while Catholics and some others believe that sprinkling of water over the head will suffice.

Now, let's push this further but carefully
when in a desert, with a bottle of water
- The Catholic approach suggests that a person can be baptised
- the Baptist approach suggests that a person cannot be baptized

when in a desert, with no water
- The Catholic approach suggests that a person cannot be baptised
- the Baptist approach suggests that a person cannot be baptized

Now, if for any reason it is true that water baptism is the start of the process for the remission of sin
then, he who is stuck in the desert and wants Jesus is on his own.... abi, is saliva also accepted in place of water?


After you've spared some thought on this, and given your view, I might push it further to shed some light on water baptism

italo:


So you believe Peter and Ananias were teaching error when they said baptism remits sin?

Before we go on to answering this question, please kindly confirm if you agree with me that there is no indication or proof that it was the Holy Spirit that said the statements that you ascribed to him.

This would be helpful in laying some solid foundation for our next line of assertions.
Remember that I have not yet attempted to make sense of what those scriptures say

Thanks

italo:


Do you believe it when the Holy Spirit says in Acts 2:38 & 22:16 that baptism remits sins?

Acts 22:16
I thought this was Paul narrating what Ananias said to him? I read the verse again, and could not find anyone saying that the "the Holy Spirit said..."

Acts 2: 38
that was peter speaking, not the Holy Spirit
............................................................

Don't get me wrong
I'm not at this point of interjection into you train of thoughts arguing whether baptism remits sin or not
I'm just setting the record straight about who was speaking in those verses you quoted

we probably can take it on from there

kITATITA:
Blame it on the rain. This is the time to stand out and reject your own allowance and you are blowing grammar..

and why should he reject it?
denounce , yes, but certainly not reject

He can make a point by collecting and splitting it publicly with a charity organisation

steveGlacial:
some pple might want to think I'm ungrateful well I live them to their opinion.



I m the definition of the person I don't like
I've tried all I can to stop the negative things going on in my life but it gets even worse.
I think problems are created to be solved but I find it very difficult to solve my problems.
After going deep in solving this problems spiritually, physically mentally and even emotionally.
I know I'm not who I'm mearnt to be.
And this has totally led to been frustrated at times.
I don't if its a sin that s taking its toll on me but I read God forgives sins . But now I feel neglected by God.
Now I don't know where to go from
I just serious HELP

sorry that you feel frustration
more than a decade ago, I was plagued with depression for years
In hindsight, I'll share some strategies>>

look at the bright side.
You feel frustration first because you are alive....after all, it is said that the dead feel nothing

The next good thing about your situation is that you feel frustration because you hunger for or desire something better
thanks to Jesus for this.
It shows that you you're burning to change from a caterpillar to a butterfly -a desire for metamorphosis

If while reading this, you noticed that you smiled a little bit, then you're on to something. its called the good news

first surround yourself with feel-good news, not bad news, or harsh news -remember that His thoughts towards you are good, not evil
temporarily avoid all of those gba gba ti gba strong sermons
I advice that you go only for Joel oesten and Joseph Prince for now.
if possible, for now, do not read the old testament, concentrate only only the new with emphasis on the first 4.
do not take unto yourself any master. Believe that Christ is your only master still at this stage

then, when you start feeling comfortable in your skin, start setting small achievable goals
it could include for example gradually changing your appearance; the way you perceive issues; your academic and social achievements etc

as your confidence increases, ......well you are on your own
the world will be yours to explore. You can then engross yourself with the things I suggested that you avoid initially.
while exploring, if you notice any regressions back into frustration, then avoid what triggered it
as the scripture infers:
a priest must not touch dead things lest it infects him with death

.......you'll pass through this brother

OLAADEGBU:
Are we saved by faith or by water baptism?

my thoughts>>
we are saved by both faith and baptism (not water baptism) as one
dem all join

When you put together the two writers (Book of Mark and Mathew)who tried to capture Jesus closing statement
it goes like this:

Go into the world and preach the good news. when someone believes, ensure that they are baptised (immersive knowledge and oneness) into the Father, Son and Spirit.
If this is done, they shall be saved through all times just as you have been saved through all times. If they do not believe, well they will remain in the condemnation that is bequeathed by the first birth.
These are some of the characteristics of what save means. The believe and baptism in the three will ensure that that they speak with new tongues and rebuke the sting of death and demons.

SGF position should not be given to people with Amaechi, Ribadu, Kingibe and Sanusis temperaments ooooo
it needs a cool headed person
Temperaments that can manage such SSG position can be found in Oyegun, Onu, Olu Falae etc

ricsman:
......let me state that the bill makes
no such linkages as you erroneously stated. I
think it may be fear of Senator Yerima that is at
play here.
For your information, Senator Yerima and all
other Senators who participated in the debate,
the two times the bill came up on the floor,
supported it as a vehicle for instituting a
stringent law barring all ranges of sexual
........................

It is said that the pathway to hell is full of good intentions

madam,
you see Yerima dey support your bill, fear suppose catch you nawwww

It's like a Christian championing a bill against amputating people based on religious ethics
and then Yerima supports it
The right thing for the Christian to do is to reassess the bill to see its weak parts that is causing amputee advocates to support it.

Yerima was probably excited because he knew he could insert some little ink somewhere into the bill to make it pleasing to him and his fellow baby hunters

dayo23:
Governor Nasir El-Rufai of Kaduna state has announced the appointment of Mrs Alisabatu Dada-Onazi as the new Head of Service of the state, pushing further for a united Nigeria.

El-Rufai made the announcement on Sunday at a civic reception organised in honour of his Deputy, Mr Barnabas Bala-Bantex, in Kafanchan.

NAN reports that before her appointment, the new head of service was the Permanent Secretary in the state’s Ministry for Culture and Tourism.


http://www.pmnewsnigeria.com/2015/06/14/again-el-rufai-appoints-non-indigene-as-head-of-service/

I'd love to see Ndigbo states make strategic appointments from other none ndigbo states
and then ensure that it is widely reported in the media

this would stop others from making rhetoric comments to igbos such as "would you allow this in your own communities?"
it would give the east the moral right to ask for greater inclusion in the governments of states in which they migrate to

modath:


I am a southerner with a strong sense of tribal pride, and champion our cause at every opportunity, right or wrong....fortunately or unfortunately i am a REALIST who understands both written and unwritten codes...

Through PDP's crazy zoning agreement, for the sake of peace, unity &stability, the north is being "owed" Yar'adua's missing years that the south "stole" for the shoeless wonder,.
Should it be so? Hell no but that is where we are & we have to make lemonade from our unusual political lemons...
My surmation is based purely on Baba deciding to stay away from 2019 as its been touted in some quarters, the 2nd sellable person at the moment of northern stock is Kwakwanso as the result of the primaries highlighted.

I hope you get my point.

No, no Modath

we can't continue being 'realists'
..granted that Buhari is a great choice
apart from him,
we can't bend realism towards the North alone

this is what is called self fulfilling prophesy
it is 'reality' only because you believe in it and act on it

Ever heard of 'game theory' and 'prisoners dilemma'?

The only reason the core north wins and might continue to always win as a REALITY is simply because the south is in a state of "prisoners dilemma"

This is the mistake Awo and Zik made, each trying to outwit the other
this is the mistake you guys and the East might also make moving forward
Its not REALITY, its sucking up

In TRUISM, if Southern Nigeria present a common front politically
the Middlebelt will align with them


What gain does one have playing second fiddle?
I can't look at my mate in the eye and call him master ...never
except I am desperately hungry
we're either equals or he should be the one calling me master

...well I guess our cultures do influence us

and yes I get your point, but thank God I am in a position not to mentally accede to it

modath:
Even the Dead Ray charles can from the grave see through Atiku's ill concealed 2019 presidential ambition. Unfortunately it further re inforces OBJ's assertion that his ambition is far above National interest.

Atiku's joy will be shortlived cos once the dust settles, he will go back to his sidelines, he is NEVER GOING TO RULE NIGERIA.

CAVEAT;
I am not God & don't have any control over Atiku's destiny but he is incomparable to Buhari, if he could be president his money would have done it since.

He lacks the two basic "ingredients" for the present day Nigeria's presidency which are; Northern cult like following and Southern support ... He enjoys NEITHER!!

He totally dollarised the APC's presidential primaries & only came a distant third to PMB who with all the "assistance" he got didn't spend a 1/4 of what he did.. Kwakwanso will be a president before he ever does .

if you're a southerner writing the bolded part,
..then i can confidently say that you have a strong inferiority complex which some 'TANoids' describe as slave mentality

All your permutations point to a situation where Nigeria will be perpetually governed only by core northerners
with the help of southern collaborators

you spare no thought that a southerner even from your own stock is capable and worthy of being president


I'm not disparaging the other parts of your analysis, just the bolded part

naptu2:

thanks Naptu
for doing some extra research

AjanleKoko:


The real situation of Africa is best summed up by Buhari's quote:

'I belong to everybody, but I belong to nobody.'

Sad, but there is really nothing we can do about this
it's even going to be difficult for our politicians and citizens to fully grasp the whole thing...it belongs to another out of our world mental dimension

In fact, any country can choose to build an artificial island in our part of the atlantic and place a couple of warheads there
we won't be able to mentally relate with it.

the only thing that might get us (or rather, our politicians and tribalists) upset is if a group/country are drilling oil off our coast
and not sharing the money with them and the riverine tribes
na then we go vex take the matter go UN and international court

frosbel:
I believe that all God fearing and honourable people irrespective of religious orientation will be saved into the new kingdom.

The idiocy that only a select group of people are dear to God is akin to supremacist ideology and is counter-productive to the peaceful and loving coexistence between all men.

Christians have totally missed the point and keep condemning and judging other men to a so called hell when the truth is that God is not a Christian and knows of no such religion. God only knows and honours those who practice goodness , equity , fairness and love.

Those deluded ones who keep living like the devil and claim the blood of Jesus as a legal loophole will be in for a shocker.

I will rather be friends with a Muslim who loves his fellow man than a Christian who slanders, insults and humiliates others

Remember ; God sees the heart and not the 'mouth' !

Interesting

You probably should do some research on what SAVE actually means and then share your findings with us
Questions you could mull on are: what did Adam, Abraham, David, the jews of old and the apostles understand as SAVE? Was their definition of SAVE always the same for each period in history?

is SAVE as understood by them same as what a majority of us understand it to be now?

I am not going to ask about what God defines SAVE as. Because there might be too much varying interpretations of it

mascot87:


Keep quiet u nit wit. http://www.kowatches.co/cartier-baignoire-folle-manual-watch-wb520034-watch-5403.html

not meaning to demean you
but you're looking for employment right?

Do you consider your comment a true reflection of the investment of your parents on your education?
hope not

the nigerian economy is shrinking daily
the folks that are able to compete effectively are more cerebral than chaps that spew out inanities like yours
that's except you want to end up a political thug. Only then will such dim witted comments take you anywhere

..sorry again for for my having to tell you this. stay blessed

KORLAR:


Coincidence maybe .

I'll accept that
Although it would have been quite ingenious if it was you advertising your products sha

Check your browser cos I opened the website now.

www.kowatches.co/cartier-baignoire-folle-manual-watch-wb520034-watch-5403.html

this link does work
interesting the name does not come up under a google search
probably because they are selling fake products

I'll be surprised that our first lady would be patronizing 'pirated' goods
The Western governments would not be pleased with this
its like her buying pirated nollywood movies to get the at cheaper cost
well, anything goes in Nigeria

KORLAR:
The same wristwatch worn by Aisha Buhari to the inauguration that Costs £34,500 (N10, 453,000) can also be gotten for $129.

So where did madam buy hers from?

PS: for people that can't stand other people's opinion. I'm an APC supporter and I strongly go against such flamboyance. I made the post for diversity of opinions.

is that you selling an imitate wristwatch?
the name of the purported website reads almost like your name

the website in your snapshot does not exist too

the nigerian judiciary is a mess
this is were Buhari should start his cleansing from
otherwise, cases will just get stuck there