₦airaland Forum

Expanse2020:
Awww, t
So if he already knew he had die by hanging squared he didn't need to begged God to changed his situation nevertheless asking the God he forsook him.. he should have accept the faith or the situation by saying, here home I come

Come to think of it; can we compare this to the sacrifice of Abraham though not as a means to salvation of his first son as he had pledged?

I have not come across Abraham's initial planned first child sacrifice complaining. Is there a case of Abraham's child being more submissive than the Biblical Jesus?

Is it that Abraham and his first child had a less human side than the allegedly divine and human Jesus?

Kukutente23:
So the Qur'an was written by four people

Of course not.

Excuse the typo

Explore2xmore:
Though I understand you are merely making a response.

Muawiyah ibn Abi Sufyan, Ubayy ibn Ka’b, Abdullah ibn Sa’d,Zayd ibn Thabit and Ali ibn Abi Talib are amongst the scribes.

The last but is very prominent in the compilation of the Mushaf (the written form of the recitation known as Quran)

Zayd headed the committee constituted to collate and reviewed with them and others.

Do not shift the discuss.

You have been presented with facts that Najran existed at the time, there were Christians there and Prophet Mohammed pbuh invited them to Islam and effecting mutually respectful grounds which includes letters and actual meetings at least they came to meet with him

Kukutente23:
Funny non- existent names

There's no letter to Najran

The Qur'an was compiled by more people than you wrote

Do you outrightly lie that these people didn't exist?

Ali ibn Abi Talib was the cousin and son-in-law of the Islamic prophet Muhammad, and was the fourth Rashidun caliph who ruled from 656 to 661.

I now know your primary nature.

Praxis758:
Shaik Abdullah, in his book called ‘Biography of the Prophet’ detailed how the ishmaelites came as settlers in the land originally owned and occupied by the QUATANS (Englicised as JOKTAN)

Settlership is neither ownership nor aborigines-hip. The geography of how book of Jasher (which is more detailed than Genesis) did not record the sojourn of Abraham in the land of Arabs.

Meanwhile, Abraham was originally from the land of UR in the present day Iraq. ‘The land of Iraq’ (Mesopotamia) is what most people are mistaking for ‘Land of Arab’.

The Iraqis aren’t Arabs but Medes (old historical name) while the Iranians are Persians.

Kindly do a thorough research and establish the very fundamental.

The roots of the Arab people go back much further than late biblical references. They are descended from Eber through Joktan, one of Eber’s sons. From Joktan’s descendants eventually came the nomadic Arabs who later inhabited the Arabian Peninsula. This genealogical connection is acknowledged by Islamic historians themselves, who refer to the Arabs as “beni Qatan,” meaning “sons of Joktan.

Ishmael, another son of Abraham through his wife Hagar, also played a significant role in the origin of the Arab people.

Ishmael went on to father a lineage of desert people who joined with those already existing in the Arabian Peninsula to form what would later be known as Arabs.

Iraqis are Arabs. They are a diverse population with various ethnic groups, including Iraqi Arabs, Iraqi Kurds, Iraqi Turkmen, Yazidis, Assyrians, Mandaeans, Armenians, and Marsh Arabs. The majority of Iraqis are Iraqi Arabs, making them the largest ethnic group in the country.

Studies on the genetics of the Iraqi people indicate that there are no significant differences in Y-DNA variation among Iraqi Mesopotamian Arabs, Assyrians, or Kurds. Modern genetic research suggests that Iraqi Arabs and Kurds are distantly related but that Iraqi Mesopotamian Arabs are more genetically similar to Iraqi-Assyrians than they are to Iraqi Kurds.

Kukutente23:
Who are the scribes? There's no evidence of any letter to Najran

Though I understand you are merely making a response.

Muawiyah ibn Abi Sufyan, Ubayy ibn Ka’b, Abdullah ibn Sa’d,Zayd ibn Thabit and Ali ibn Abi Talib are amongst the scribes.

The last but is very prominent in the compilation of the Mushaf (the written for of the recitation known as Quran)

Kukutente23:
But there's no such thing as a letter from Muhammad to Christians in Najran

You first say

Kukutente23:
This is a lie
There is no such place called Najran and there's no such letter

It seems you now know there's a place called Najran.

Prophet Muhammad had been sending official letters to different countries and their rulers, inviting them to Islam. Among these were two different invitations that had been sent to Najran with Khaled ibn al-Walid and Ali ibn Abi Talib. At that time the Najran Christians had a highly organized religious life.

https://english.alarabiya.net/features/2017/05/14/In-Pictures-Prophet-Mohammed-s-letters-to-heads-of-states

You also say the delegation of Najran Christians that met with him at Mecca is untrue?

Look up Dr. John Andrew Morrow's, The Covenants of the Prophet Muhammad.

Kukutente23:
But there's no such thing as a letter from Muhammad to Christians in Najran

Because Prophet Muhammad could neither read nor write?

He had scribes you know

A’ishah, the Mother of the Believers, narrated that Al-Harith ibn Hisham asked the Prophet (peace and blessing be upon him): “O Allah’s apostle. How is the divine inspiration revealed to you?” The Prophet (peace and blessing be upon him) replied,

“Sometimes it is “revealed” like the ringing of a bell, this is the hardest of all, and then it passes off after I have grasped what is inspired. Sometimes the Angel comes in the form of a man and talks to me and I grasp whatever he says.” (Al-Bukhari Book 1, Hadith 2)

And (it is) a Qur’an which We have divided (into parts), in order that you might recite it to men at intervals. And We have revealed it by stages”. Q17:106.

“And those who disbelieved say: “Why is the Qur’an not revealed unto him all at once?” Thus (it is sent down in parts), that We may strengthen your heart thereby. And We have revealed it unto you gradually, in stages” Q25:32.

1. “By the star when it goes down (or vanishes)

2. Your companion (Muhammad) has neither gone astray nor has erred.

3. Nor does he speak of (his own) desire.

4. It is only a Revelation revealed.

5. He has been taught (this Qur’aan) by one mighty in power [Jibreel (Gabriel)].”

[Q53:1-5]


“I was sitting beside the Prophet PBUH when he suddenly widens his eyes in surprise, then he looks down and stare intently at the ground and his keen gaze makes me feel as if his eyes could touch the ground. Afterwards, the Prophet PBUH said: Jibril came to me and commanded me (by the command of Allah) to place this verse in this surah.

Musnad Ahmad

Kukutente23:
This is a lie
There is no such place called Najran and there's no such letter

Najrān is a location traced back to 4,000 years ago. It was once occupied by the Romans; in fact, it was the first Saudi city to fall to the Romans on their way to the Saudi Arabia kingdom of Saudi.


According to Najran Jewish tradition, the Jews of Najran traced their origin to the Ten Tribes. Najran was also an important stopping place on the incense trade route.


See also
https://www.nodc.noaa.gov/archive/arc0216/0253808/2.2/data/0-data/Region-2-WMO-Normals-9120/SaudiArabia/CSV/Najran_41128.csv

Akell:
Ok! Let me school you a bit. Arabic writing was far from perfected during the time of Muhammad, which is why there was no such thing as a written Arabic book (Any reference to an Arabic kitab, the word for “book,” was actually an oral text that was handed down through poets and reciters. It was not a written book). When initially writing the text of the Quran, letters and vowel markings were still being standardized, which led to confusion. For these reasons, what the scribes wrote were memory aids for the oral text. This is actually a fairly uncontroversial fact even among Muslim Quran scholars.

The text of the Quran was fluid during the time of Muhammad. He would recite the same verse multiple ways, saying he could do so up to seven ways. If at any point a text needed to be canceled, it could simply be abrogated and replaced with another text.

Since the text of the Quran was not seen as a written text, this caused little problem: All that was required was to stop reciting certain verses and to “forget” what had been revealed.

Desperately trying to force down your lie?


Die ältesten Berichte über das Leben Muhammads: Das Korpus 'Urwa ibn az-Zubair
Translated title of the contribution: The Earliest Reports About the Life of Muhammad: The Corpus of 'Urwa ibn al-Zubayr


These accounts were collected and spread in the last third of the 1st/7th century by Urwa ibn al-Zubayr.

In what Century did Prophet Mohammed pbuh die?

Akell:
As Muslims know that it was a long time after Muhammad died before anything substantial was written about his life, but people did not cease talking about him.

For over two hundred years, stories about the Islamic 'prophet' were passed orally from person to person, and among the true accounts proliferated many fabrications. By the time a systematic effort was made to sort through them, over five hundred thousand (500,000) accounts of Muhammad’s life were in popular circulation, and it is commonly estimated that the vast majority of them were false.

HOW CAN WE KNOW WHICH ACCOUNTS OF MUHAMMAD’S LIFE ARE TRUSTWORTHY?

Let's assume the classical Islamic method for assessing the authenticity of hadith. In the field of uloom al-hadith, translated “the science of Muhammad’s sayings,” Muslim scholars grade individual accounts of Muhammad’s life based on criteria such as how well-known an account was and who the people relaying it were. The most trustworthy hadith are ultimately graded sahih, which means “true” or “authentic,” whereas the weakest hadith are labelled daeef (“weak”) or even maudu (“fabricated”).

Imam Bukhari and his student Imam Muslim were two highly respected scholars in the third century after Muhammad, and they collected only those hadith which they considered sahih and beyond dispute. Most Muslims consider their collections above reproach. In using only the hadith that they approved, Muslims were deluded to see Muhammad was the noble and peaceful man that they've always been taught, and that there were no problematic accounts in his life.
But this isn't the case. Problematic accounts existed even amid the sahih collections.

If you ask imams to resolve these problematic accounts found in the sahih, and also search online, you'll see how other Muslims responded to the criticisms. What I learned was that many were willing to accuse even the sahih collections of containing fabricated accounts, finding ways to dismiss those accounts that were considered authentic by the great Muslim scholars of old.

It was then I realized they were essentially finding ways to pick and choose from the ancient records which accounts were reliable and which were not, creating a Muhammad that they felt comfortable with.

If you want to know who Muhammad really was and whether you should follow him as your prophet, not to create a Muhammad in your mind that was worth following. I suggest you reconsider your approach and study Muhammad using the historical method instead of uloom al-hadith.

THE HISTORICAL METHOD

What were the earliest accounts written about Muhammad, and how soon were they written?

Here, you'll discover some shocking facts about early Islam. First, people were not writing books in Arabic during Muhammad’s time. The first Arabic book to have been written was the Quran, and even that was turned into a written book only after Muhammad died. There was no such thing as written Arabic literature, only oral. This is because, second, people were still figuring out how to write Arabic. Arabic script was far from standardized, having been invented only a century or two before Muhammad’s time. For these reasons and others, third, no one wrote a biography of Muhammad’s life until about 140 years after Muhammad died. By that time, there were certainly no eyewitnesses of Muhammad’s life, and people were generations removed from the events they discussed. Could we trust such an account to be an unfiltered and accurate depiction of Muhammad?

The first biography, Sirat Rasul Allah, was written by a man named Ibn Ishaq, but the book itself has actually been lost. Ibn Ishaq taught a man named al-Bakkai, who made his own edition of Ibn Ishaq’s book, and al-Bakkai taught a man named Ibn Hisham, who edited al-Bakkai’s edition, and it is this edition that we have today. Why did these men each make their own editions? Ibn Hisham tells us in his introductory remarks: “Things which it is disgraceful to discuss, matters which would distress certain people, and such reports as al-Bakkai told me he could not accept as trustworthy—all these things I have omitted.”¹ In other words, the earliest biography of Muhammad’s life was reputed to contain fabrications, disgraceful material, and distressing facts.² What we have today has been filtered many times, both for fabrications and for difficult truths.

It is because of such intentional editing that historians do not consider late accounts as trustworthy as early accounts, all else being equal. The earlier accounts have not been as filtered, and therefore are more likely to be true. Also, people are more prone to forget information over time, especially information that does not fit with the narrative at large. When it comes to the records of Muhammad’s life, we simply do not have such early or unfiltered data. Everything has been filtered through multiple generations.

Even though the earliest biography went through layers of filtering, it still contains shocking material. Some of them are listed here:

Muhammad personally oversaw the beheadings of up to nine hundred men on a single day, digging trenches in the marketplaces so that their corpses could fall into mass graves upon being decapitated.³

He ordered the assassination of an old man who had composed poetry complaining about Muhammad.⁴

A woman lamented the old man’s death in poetry, so Muhammad ordered her assassination, and her blood splattered on her children as she breastfed.⁵

Muhammad ordered the torture of a city treasurer to extract the location of the money, so his men kindled a fire with flint and steel on the treasurer’s chest until he was nearly dead, ultimately beheading him;⁶

When Muhammad was about to execute a man, the man pleaded, “Who will look after my children?” to which Muhammad responded, “Hell!”⁷

Just by scratching the surface of the earliest biography we find many troubling accounts of Muhammad. By the time hadith were written under men like Imam Bukhari and Imam Muslim, many of these accounts were filtered out of Muhammad’s biography, just as Ibn Hisham and al-Bakkai had filtered the accounts that they received.

For this reason, selective filtration, the whole body of hadith is inherently flawed: They contain only those accounts that multiple generations of early Muslims each chose to save. As we have seen, even those that were kept are often considered flawed and fabricated.

WHAT CAN WE REALLY KNOW ABOUT MUHAMMAD?
For this reason, non-Muslim scholars of early Islam are very hesitant to trust the information about the life of Muhammad. Almost none accept the science of hadith criticism as it stands, most just hoping to extract historical kernels of truth from the hadith. Some scholars have even abandoned hope of that much success, saying virtually nothing can be known about Muhammad.
These scholars are from a variety of religious and nonreligious backgrounds. One Muslim scholar concluded that, given the nature of the evidence, Muhammad may not have even existed.

Muhammad Sven Kalisch completed his PhD in Islamic jurisprudence in 1997 and became Germany’s first professor to hold a chair in Islamic theology. When he arrived at Münster University in 2004, he struck some as too conservative on account of his zeal for sharia. But then, according to the Wall Street Journal, Kalisch “wanted to subject Islam to the same scrutiny as Christianity and Judaism.”⁸ At first he defended the historicity of Muhammad in print, but the more he studied, the more he realized there were significant problems with the record. The word Muhammad appears only four times in the Quran, and it is unclear whether it is a name or a title. Quran 61.6 appears to say that the Prophet’s name was Ahmad, not Muhammad.⁹ There is no other evidence of Muhammad’s existence until the turn of the eighth century, when coins bearing his name were produced. “The more I read, the historical person at the root of the whole thing became more and more improbable,” says Muhammad Kalisch.

Other scholars are coming to similar conclusions on account of the holes in the historical records. Their concerns are more than an argument from silence; if the traditional understanding of Islam is true, it is indeed very problematic that we do not find more about Muhammad in the earliest historical records. If Muhammad was the prophet of the Arabs, and if they were energized and motivated by his teachings, why is it that the Arab conquests of the Middle East, North Africa, and Persia never mention his name? These conquests occurred in the middle of the seventh century, immediately after Muhammad’s death, yet none of the contemporary records mention Muhammad. In fact, none mention a holy book or even the word Muslim. It is not that there are no records; considering the communications of the conquerors and the writings of the conquered, there are abundant records, yet Muhammad is never named, a holy book is never discussed, and the conquerors are never called Muslims.

Other evidence also has historians scratching their heads: Although Mecca is reputed to be a trade center, it never appears in any trade routes until the turn of the eighth century; none of the earliest mosques faced toward Mecca (all faced toward either Jerusalem or Petra until about the turn of the eighth century); Mecca is mentioned only once in the Quran; the descriptions of the land in the Quran sound very little like Mecca, much more like northern Arabia; and the list goes on.

For these reasons, not just one Muslim scholar but many scholars doubt the traditional origins of Islam and even the existence of Muhammad, at least as the early Islamic records describe him. According to them, the truth about the origins of Islam is unfortunately veiled. There is almost nothing we can know with certainty about the historical Muhammad.¹⁰

Why will you make blatantly false claims?

In the year 661, Sahl ibn Abī Ḥathma, Abdullah ibn Abbas, and Saʿīd ibn Saʿd ibn ʿUbāda al-Khazrajī wrote about Muhammad in various historical texts. These three writers were contemporaries of the Prophet Muhammad and played significant roles in documenting his life and teachings.

Does 661-632 =140 years? Please what form of maths is this?

Solajinspiratio:
During a Divine encounter on a prayer mountain, Lord Jesus Christ sent Archangel Michael to Daniel Godswill in order to take him to Hell and show him the hopeless condition of damned souls who are agonizing in Hell.

Among the damned souls in Hell Daniel saw was late Fela Kuti, popularly known by his numerous fans as 'King of Afrobeat' Music while alive on Earth. He died at the age of 58 years in August 2, 1997.

Archangel Michael revealed to Daniel the sinful lifestyle and unrepentant condition that brought Fela Kuti to Hell after his death on Earth in 1997.

Surely, after physical death on Earth comes judgment (Hebrews 9:27). Therefore, it is necessary to accept the great salvation offer of Lord Jesus Christ while one is still alive on Earth because there is no hope of salvation again after physical death.

Daniel Godswill testified:

I Saw Fela Kuti In Hell.

As I and the Angel of the Lord continue moving, we reached the chamber of a man, who was all filled with intensive fire burning with great degrees. In it, were filled with worms on his face, poisonous snakes, so demonic and dangerous (Mark 9:43-48).

The Lord's Angel said to me, "Daniel, that you see there, is Fela Kuti. He is here, for making himself as a god."

He was crying for help but immediately he opens his mouth, a very huge snake would enters his mouth and will be moving inside of his mouth. That will make him shouts and scream but to no avail to help him.

The Lord's Angel told me, "Daniel, tell the people who believe in reincarnation that they will end up in here. No humanity is reincarnated for any reasons (Hebrews 9:27).

At this point, the man inside this burning fire came out, and began to plead and asking the Angel to remove him out from there. He said to Him, "Haven't I suffered enough for coming in here? Save me for once to rest a little for I have already suffered enough right from the day I arrived in here."

The man, known as Fela Kuti said to the Angel, "I didn't led the people to worship me on Earth, please, I only did what I was supposed to do and I ended up in here. I didn't do anything wrong."

Then, immediately he said that, a big screen showed and appeared before us and behold, I saw him, while he was still on Earth, advising the people to sing and curse the Most High God by telling them, there is nothing like God but of his own god.

After that was done, another place was shown where he was fornicating with two women at the same time, with his cigarette on his left hand while the two women was having intercourse with him.

After this, another place was shown where he was about to give up the ghost. He was telling his followers to build up a shrine of his name after his death and making the people worshiping him and praising his name before he then died. After then, the screen disappeared.

The Angel asked him, "Kuti in all your life time, did you asked Lord Jesus Christ of whom you rejected for forgiveness?" He began to insults the Angel and God the Creator for........

Continue reading..........

This is far from acceptable. Are you certain your vision isn't disillusioned?

Fela Kuti, is/was a renowned Nigerian musician and activist, known for his outspoken criticism of governments, colonialism, oppression, and injustice through his music. Despite his rebellious and anti-establishment stance, Fela Kuti did acknowledge the existence of a higher power or God in his life.

He had a good sense of fair judgement. How much better than the so called religious adherents that are unjust.

Don't use his fame as an anchor to gain audience.

Ohyoudidnt:
@Explore2xmore I have already stated this thing should be ignored. I believe you saw my post.



The entire Qur'an was not compiled into a single book during the lifetime of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh).

During his life, the verses were revealed piecemeal over approximately 23 years, and these verses were memorized by the companions and also written down on various
materials, such as parchment, bone, leaves, and stone tablets. However, the Qur'an was not collected into a single book until after the Prophet's death.

It was during the caliphate of Abu Bakr (may Allah be pleased with him) when the first official compilation of the Qur'an was undertaken and
completed, with the work being led by the chief scribe, Zayd ibn Thabit r.a. This was to preserve the Quran after a number of those who had memorized it were killed in the Battle of Yamama. The collected text was then used by Uthman ibn Affan (may Allah be pleased with him), the third Caliph, to produce a standard version and distributed to various regions to ensure the uniformity of recitation
and text.

He sees the truth but Allah clearly says:

As for those who persist in disbelief, it is the same whether you warn them or not—they will never believe.

Assalam alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatu Ohyoudidnt. Beg your pardon for not following your request.

I just felt my entry with put his questions to rest.

He is unable to understand that the revelation of Quran took 23 years and it had continued to be revealed until the last year of the Prophet Muhammad's(pbuh) life. So nobody was able to compile it as a book during the Phrophet's life, since it was not complete.

Following the Prophet's demise everyone knew that the revelation had finished and Quran was not going to change anymore(no ayah would be added).

So at that time they collected (the numerous ayahs collated in writing) all those scripts written by sahaba and compiled it

TenQ:
I am sure I gave you evidence for things I wote and did not ask you for any memorised history lessing from you.
1. Is it true that I showed you that the Quran was collected BEFORE the death of Mohammed?
Evidence: Sahih al-Bukhari 3810
2. Is it True that AFTER Mohammed's death, the Quran was collected again by by Abubakar from parchments, scapula, leaf-stalks of date palms and from the memories of men (who knew it by heart)and with Khuza`ima two Verses of Surat-at-Tauba
Evidence: Sahih al-Bukhari 4679


Here it is the evidence you require:
Sahih al-Bukhari 4679
Narrated Zaid bin Thabit Al-Ansari:
who was one of those who used to write the Divine Revelation: Abu Bakr sent for me after the (heavy) casualties among the warriors (of the battle) of Yamama..... So I kept on arguing with him about it till Allah opened my bosom for that which He had opened the bosoms of Abu Bakr and `Umar. So I started locating Qur'anic material and collecting it from parchments, scapula, leaf-stalks of date palms and from the memories of men (who knew it by heart). I found with Khuza`ima two Verses of Surat-at-Tauba which I had not found with anybody else, (and they were):-- "Verily there has come to you an Apostle (Muhammad) from amongst yourselves. It grieves him that you should receive any injury or difficulty He (Muhammad) is ardently anxious over you (to be rightly guided)" (9.128) The manuscript on which the Qur'an was collected, remained with Abu Bakr till Allah took him unto Him, and then with `Umar till Allah took him unto Him, and finally it remained with Hafsa, `Umar's daughter.


Even if you assume that Mohammed collected the Quran in piles of Bones, pachments, leaves of date palms, did Mohammed also collected the Quran in the heart of some men AND particularly with Khuza`ima for which he kept two Verses of Surat-at-Tauba?
Can you see how interrogations of bogus claims about any event break down inherent falsehood?


This still does not answer the Question:
Where is the Collected Quran of Mohammed?

From my side, no human being is my ENEMY here on earth because every human is created in the image of God.
I don't want you to go to hell through the deception of Mohammed: thus a a friend, my duty is to show you the true Islam of Mohammed different from the Islam his followers tell you to memorise.

If a friend of yours is about buying a fake plot of land from a 419 at a cost of N30 million Naira: will you do everything within your power to show your friend that the photocopies of the title deeds of the land is fake? Or will you keep quiet and watch till your friend is swindled of his savings and livelihood?

Moreover, why are you angry with me?
Don't you believe in the DESTINY of Allah again?
Is it untrue that Allah is the one who has written for me to Oppose Islam on Nairaland
If this is True, Im I not doing the will of Allah according to Islam?



This is another history lesson which contradicts Sahih al-Bukhari 3810

Sahih al-Bukhari 3810
Narrated Qatada:
Anas said, "The Qur'an was collected in the lifetime of the Prophet (ﷺ) by four (men), all of whom were from the Ansar: Ubai, Mu`adh bin Jabal, Abu Zaid and Zaid bin Thabit." I asked Anas, "Who is Abu Zaid?" He said, "One of my uncles."

Does this Hadith say that the Quran was collected DURING THE LIFETIME of Mohammed?

Is it UNTRUE that that Mohammed re-arranged or ordered the sequence of the Surah of the Quran?
Recall that the Qur'an was not arranged in chapters and verses based on revelation and this arrangement was done by Mohammed himself.

Was the Quran ordered in chapters on piles of Bones, pachments, leaves of date palms and did Mohammed also ordered the Quran in the heart of some men AND particularly with Khuza`ima where he kept two Verses ?

Questions always betray the cascades of fables used in supporting Islam.



Evidence for Breastfeeding Adults in the Quran
Sunan an-Nasa'i 3307
It was narrated that 'Aishah said:
"One of the things that Allah, the Mighty and Sublime, revealed" -(one of the narrators) Al-Harith said (in his narration): "One of the things that were revealed in the Qur'an"- "was that ten known breast-feedings make marriage prohibited, then that was abrogated and changed to five known breast-feedings. Then the Messenger of Allah passed away when this was something that was still being recited in the Qur'an."


The other wives of Mohammed detests Breastfeeding of Adults and their argument was that it was just a conscession by Mohammed to Salim


Sunan an-Nasa'i 3324
It was narrated that 'Urwah said:
"The rest of the wives of the Prophet refused for anyone to enter upon them on the basis of that type of breast-feeding, meaning breast-feeding of an adult. They said to 'Aishah: 'By Allah, we think that what the Messenger of Allah told Sahlah bint Suhail to do was a concession which was granted by the Messenger of Allah only with regard to breast-feeding Salim. By Allah, no one will enter upon us, nor see us on the basis of this type of breast-feeding.'"

Did you see that Breastfeeding Adults was recited in the Quran and suddenly it disappeared?



Have a nice day sir.
Please let's call it a day sir.
If Islam was true, it wouldn't be difficult answering any Questions because the Truth cannot be shaken!

Salam Alaikum!

Zaid bin Thabit’s collation of the Quran involved gathering all the written fragments of the Quran that were scattered among various companions who had memorized different parts of it.

Was all the written form of the Quran in any one place before this?

NO.

The many companions of the Prophet Muhammad who had memorized the entire Quran during his lifetime served as invaluable resources for verifying the accuracy of the compiled text.

If a friend is on the verge of being defrauded the best I can do is advice him to be diligent and cautious. If any useful information is available to me I will share but that's the most in reality

Was the Quran collected in written form and in one place in Muhammad pbuh 's lifetime? Definitely not otherwise show where?

Did the four come together to collect the Quran? Show when and where all the Quran was collected by these four.


Show the breastfeeding verse in the Quran a nd the verse abrogating it in there not hadith you lie addict

TenQ:
My Question:
1. Is it TRUE that the Quran was compiled/collected during the Lifetime of Mohammed? Sahih al-Bukhari 3810
Your Reesponse:

This seem to contradict
Sahih al-Bukhari 3810
Narrated Qatada:
Anas said, "The Qur'an was collected in the lifetime of the Prophet (ﷺ) by four (men), all of whom were from the Ansar: Ubai, Mu`adh bin Jabal, Abu Zaid and Zaid bin Thabit." I asked Anas, "Who is Abu Zaid?" He said, "One of my uncles."

Was the Quran partly collected by these four men?
Dont forget that Mohammed himself recommended these four experts in the Quran?



My Question:
2. If it was true that the Quran was completely collected during the lifetime of your Prophet,
a. What happened to the Quran of Muhammad that necessitated Abubakr to issue another instruction for collection of the Quran to Zaid? Sahih al-Bukhari 4679
b. Why did Zaid not just copy the Quran of Mohammed but rather choose to start his collection from the scratch?
Your Response:

If this was true, did Ubai, Mu`adh bin Jabal, Abu Zaid and Zaid bin Thabit record the collected Quran on parchments, scapula, leaf-stalks of date palms and they stored the remaining to the the memories of men (who knew it by heart). I found with Khuza`ima two Verses of Surat-at-Tauba ?

Sahih al-Bukhari 4679
Narrated Zaid bin Thabit Al-Ansari:
who was one of those who used to write the Divine Revelation: Abu Bakr sent for me after the (heavy) casualties among the warriors (of the battle) of Yamama..... So I kept on arguing with him about it till Allah opened my bosom for that which He had opened the bosoms of Abu Bakr and `Umar. So I started locating Qur'anic material and collecting it from parchments, scapula, leaf-stalks of date palms and from the memories of men (who knew it by heart). I found with Khuza`ima two Verses of Surat-at-Tauba which I had not found with anybody else, (and they were):-- "Verily there has come to you an Apostle (Muhammad) from amongst yourselves. It grieves him that you should receive any injury or difficulty He (Muhammad) is ardently anxious over you (to be rightly guided)" (9.128) The manuscript on which the Qur'an was collected, remained with Abu Bakr till Allah took him unto Him, and then with `Umar till Allah took him unto Him, and finally it remained with Hafsa, `Umar's daughter.



If the Quran was collected at the time of Mohammed, where was it written: except the Quran was never collected during the time of Mohammed

You did not answer:
Why did Zaid not just copy the Quran of Mohammed but rather choose to start his collection from the scratch?

My third Question:
3. According to Zaid when he was compiling the Quran of Abubakar, he found the last verse Quran 9:128-129 with an Ansar.
a. If we assume that the Quran of Abubakar was complete, how come that Quran 33:23 was NOT found in the Quran of Abubakar but with Khuza`ima bin Thabit Al-Ansari? Sahih al-Bukhari 4530


Your Response:

*I think I have shown you that the Quran was collected during the Lifetime of Mohammed in Sahih al-Bukhari 3810
*Then the Quran was collected during the time of Abubakr
*Then the Quran was collected collected again during the time of Uthman

Except the Quran was not collected during thr time of Mohammed.
Dont forget that mohammed re-arranged or ordered the sequence of the Surah of the Quran.
Recall that the Qur'an was not arranged in chapters and verses based on revelation and this arrangement was done by Mohammed himself.

This can only be done when the Quran was written! Do you disagree with this?

My Question 4:
4. Is it true that even after the final collection of the Quran by Uthman,
a. Umar said: "We do not find the Verses of the Rajam (stoning to death) in the Holy Book" ? Sahih al-Bukhari 6829
b. Where then is the verse on Rajam?
Your Response:

1. The verse of stoning and breastfeeding of adult males were eaten by a goat/sheep as reported by Aisha.
2. The verse on Breastfeeding was not abrogated. It was reduced from ten times breastfeeding to five
Neither the 10 or 5 exist in the Quran of today.
3. Mohammed actually gave judgement of stoning in the hadiths followed by the Sahabas
*Jami` at-Tirmidhi 1435 (A woman from Juhainah)
*Bulugh al-Maram 553 (the Ghamidi woman)
*Sahih al-Bukhari 2314, 2315
*Sunan Ibn Majah 2555
*Musnad Ahmad 978 Sharahah (Ali)
*Sahih Muslim 1672c
*Musnad Ahmad 1317

Do you need more evidence of stoning by Mohammed and the Sahabas?

When a football match is going on and commentary is being made from the beginning is the commentator from the beginning not making comments about the match despite the match not yet completed?
You must have a severely warped mine.

Almighty God has spoken to man since the creation of man and he completed all that was needed to know by man for his existence on Earth in the Quran how many years after man came to earth.

How many years after creation of the heavens and the worlds was mankind created? Is this part of the information revealed to mankind or not? The revelations should have just started after man was created without any reference to the creation part or shouldn't it?

Did slight changes occur with Jesus permitting some things forbidden to Israelites to them? Did Muhammad pbuh have revelations that were later replaced with better? A clear example Jesus on the first biblical miracle of turning water into wine not say there were better things to come and also say the people couldn't bare some things? In the time of Muhammad pbuh alcohol was initially allowed then a stopping of those who had consumed same from attending congregation prayers then totally forbidden.

When these things were written were the recorders writing and memorizing other than the recitation; the Quran? Were these not written in small bits and collections from bone pieces, animal skin, tree barks etc.?

Was there a collection of the bones, skin, tree barks etc. in one place?

Show me where this was.

Of course it's obvious that whatever the four men independent of each other leatnt they learnt and memorized exceptionally well.

Say in graduate school you do well all through and always had a cgpa of around 4.5 on the average. If you had a cgpa of 5.0 in the 1st year, 4.47 in the second, 4.98 in the 3rd and 4.88 in the 4th will you be said to have not been an exceptional student throughout your college years?
Did you or did not have an average of 4.83 at the end?

You rely so much on the hadith and I ask which came first of the two?

Which was divinely revealed?

Didn't Zaid not copy of what was revealed? He ensured he found documented evidence hence the search for the last verse of Surah Tawbah.

[size=18pt]A declaration of immunity from God and His Messenger to the polytheists with whom you had made a treaty[/size]

Tenq persistently lies that I am a friend when I am not. We disagree on nairaland.com which is the only avenue of address. How can we be friends?

[size=14pt]Tenq the Polytheist through a Trinitarian belief is of those Allah has declared immunity from[/size].


Nothing happened to the Quran revealed to the prophet which was fully memorized by many and was written in parts in several seperate writing materials. The death of many of those who had it fully memorized necessitated the collation into a single book and duplication for distribution in later times ti ensure uniformity.

As unanimously reported Abu Bakr told Zayd not to rely on his memory ever and to demand two witnesses with written copies for each verse as evidence.

And (it is) a Qur’an which We have divided (into parts), in order that you might recite it to men at intervals. And We have revealed it by stages”. Q17:106.

“And those who disbelieved say: “Why is the Qur’an not revealed unto him all at once?” Thus (it is sent down in parts), that We may strengthen your heart thereby. And We have revealed it unto you gradually, in stages” Q25:32.

Angel Jibril used to present the Qur’an to the Prophet (May the peace and blessing of Allah be upon him) during the month of Ramadan once every year. However, he presented it to him twice in the last month of Ramadan of his life.  

Jibril used to descend on prophet Muhammad pbuh and say to him: place so and so verse in so and so place, as narrated by Ahmad.

The verse on breast feeding adult males was never part of the Quran otherwise both it and the verse abrogating it will be found in the Quran. The exception in just the case of Salim derives solely from hadith.

Breastfeeding is only for babies/infants. It is tiring on a mother breast feeding a baby not to imagine a grown man. Be realistic and deliberately stop the delusion you are in and if it's drugs and alcohol please stop these.

TenQ:
My Friend:
You are still repeating the story they told you in the mosque.
My point is that your stories does not answer any of my questions especially when we look at your religious books. Here are my questions again.

Just answer them without boring me with history

1. Is it TRUE that the Quran was compiled/collected during the Lifetime of Mohammed? Sahih al-Bukhari 3810
2. If it was true that the Quran was completely collected during the lifetime of your Prophet,
a. What happened to the Quran of Muhammad that necessitated Abubakr to issue another instruction for collection of the Quran to Zaid? Sahih al-Bukhari 4679
b. Why did Zaid not just copy the Quran of Mohammed but rather choose to start his collection from the scratch?
3. According to Zaid when he was compiling the Quran of Abubakar, he found the last verse Quran 9:128-129 with an Ansar.
a. If we assume that the Quran of Abubakar was complete, how come that Quran 33:23 was NOT found in the Quran of Abubakar but with Khuza`ima bin Thabit Al-Ansari? Sahih al-Bukhari 4530
4. Is it true that even after the final collection of the Quran by Uthman,
a. Umar said: "We do not find the Verses of the Rajam (stoning to death) in the Holy Book" ? Sahih al-Bukhari 6829
b. Where then is the verse on Rajam?

The Quran was revealed over 23 years with the last verse revealed not long before the death of Prophet Muhammad pbuh.

At different times along with revelation some of these verses were written in parts. As a book the Quran was not fully written and compiled during the lifetime of prophet Muhammad. How many people could read at this time?

2. The Quran fully written as 1 Mushaf was not done in the lifetime of the prophet

3 As verses were written in line with revelation and not collected as a book despite quite a number haven memorised it was important to get both written verses as well as oral recall to ensure authenticity.

4. The verse on stoning to death is said to have been abrogated from the Quran due to specific circumstances or divine wisdom. The view maintained is that its practice is based on authentic Hadiths and established legal principles within Islamic jurisprudence.

However some scholars question the authenticity of the Hadiths supporting stoning to death and argue that without a clear Quranic mandate, such punishments should not be implemented. They advocate for a more lenient interpretation of Islamic law that prioritizes mercy and justice over harsh penalties.

Mention 3 persons and on which this was pronounced by Prophet Muhammad.

Ubai bin Ka`b was one of the companions who excelled in memorization of the Quran and recitation. He was among the select few who had the honor of being chosen by the Prophet to recite the Quran in his presence.
Ubai was known for his expertise in the recitation of the Quran and his commitment to preserving the revelations.


Mu`adh bin Jabal was another companion who had a deep understanding of the Quran and was entrusted by the Prophet with important tasks. He was known for his wisdom and knowledge, and his dedication to learning and
teaching the Quran.

Abu Zaid was a scribe who was skilled in writing down the revelations of the Quran. He played a crucial role in compiling and preserving the Quran during the time of the Prophet.

Abu Zaid worked closely with Zaid bin Thabit, another scribe who was known for his proficiency in writing Arabic script.

During the lifetime of Prophet Muhammad, companions such as Ubai, Mu`adh bin Jabal, Abu Zaid, and Zaid bin Thabit played a crucial role in preserving and collating different parts of the Quran. These companions were known for their dedication, knowledge, and expertise in memorizing and writing down the revelations received by the Prophet.

These were parts of the Quran as revealed and not the entire Quran in one book.

malcom1X:
In history, several people have been swallowed by whales
Michael Packard and James Bartley.

These are verified. You can Google their names and jt will bring out stories about them.

Yes they were swallowed but weren't dead during the encounter. That is the point. You get.

Fitrah (فطرة) is a term in Islamic theology which has many interpretations. The most popular interpretation is that it's a natural human disposition to believe in monotheism .

TenQ:
Note:
There is an error noted and corrected.

The Narrative is of Sahih al-Bukhari 3207 and NOT Sahih Bukhari 4712; 7440


Stop playing games with me sir. You are deliberately avoiding answering my questions to escape the trap caused by the multiplicaty of Web of lies Islam has spurn for you.
Once you answer my questions I've been asking you, you will see the inconsistencies

1. Is this Narrative of Sahih Bukhari 4712; 7440 Sahih al-Bukhari 3207 a true or false occurrence?
If the above is TRUE,

2. Then answer me: Is this hadith below also true?
Sunan Ibn Majah 4308
It was narrated from Abu Sa’eed that the Messenger of Allah said:
“I am the leader of the sons of Adam, and it is no boast. I will be the first one for whom the earth will be split open on the Day of Resurrection, and it is no boast. I will be the first to intercede and the first whose intercession will be accepted, and it is no boast. The banner of praise will be in my hand on the Day of Resurrection, and it is no boast.”


Are you afraid! ?


Now, you are confused.
Did you not quote

Quran 7:11;
And We created you, then fashioned you, then told the angels: Fall ye prostrate before Adam! And they fell prostrate, all save Iblis, who was not of those who make prostration.

And asked a question :


Again, Is the Soul (in the first part of Qur'an 7:11) YOU?

You wouldn't answer as usual.


How would you understand my answer if you can't even answer what a spirit is?

Again:
a. What is a Spirit?
If you do not know what a spirit is, how can you understand that Jesus IS a Spirit

b. Is the breath of Allah spirit?
c. Is Jibril a spirit?

As usual, I expect you to evade this questions.


I have maintained this:
According to the Qur'an, Jesus is a Co-Creator with Allah. It doesn't matter if it was by Allah's permission or not.

Is it true that: Jesus created from mud a bird and Jesus breathe (not Allah) into it and the mud came to life as a bird

In the whole universe, can you tell me just ONE person who created even a fly in addition to what Allah created?


Again, Quran 7:172-173 is true only if you concur that humans exist fully before they physically come into existence.
Again, is a human being a trinity/duality according to Islam?



You refused to answer my question as I never asked if the Narrative in 4712 and 7440 spoke about the future or not.

Again :


1. Is this Narrative of Sahih Bukhari 4712; 7440 Sahih al-Bukhari 3207 a true or false occurrence?
If the above is TRUE,

2. Then answer me: Is this hadith below also true?
Sunan Ibn Majah 4308
It was narrated from Abu Sa’eed that the Messenger of Allah said:
“I am the leader of the sons of Adam, and it is no boast. I will be the first one for whom the earth will be split open on the Day of Resurrection, and it is no boast. I will be the first to intercede and the first whose intercession will be accepted, and it is no boast. The banner of praise will be in my hand on the Day of Resurrection, and it is no boast.”


Are you afraid! ?




Note:
There is an error noted and corrected.

The Narrative is of Sahih al-Bukhari 3207 and NOT Sahih Bukhari 4712; 7440


To avoid controversy :

Now I see my perception of an apparent degree of intelligence you fake is exactly that; false.

Quran 7:172
"And [mention] when your Lord took from the children of Adam - from their loins - their descendants and made them testify of themselves, [saying to them], "Am I not your Lord?" They said, "Yes, we have testified." [This] - lest you should say on the day of Resurrection, "Indeed, we were of this unaware.""


You mentioned fitrah in your earlier post

TenQ:
Was the word Fitrah also used for John or any other person apart from Jesus?

What is fitrah?
Fitrah is an Arabic term that refers to the natural disposition of human beings. It is derived from the Arabic root word “Fatar” which means to create or to shape.

Fitrah is the natural inclination towards monotheism and the recognition of God’s existence that every human being possesses.

This disposition is strongly due to the attestation of man before he was born.

Does your Bible not read in Jeremiah 1
4 The word of the Lord came to me, saying,

5 “Before I formed you in the womb I knew[a] you,before you were born I set you apart;I appointed you as a prophet to the nations.

Is it only Jeremiah that God knows before he is formed in the womb? Or only those who become prophets?

Quran 30:30
So set thou thy face steadily and truly to the Faith: (establish) Allah's handiwork according to the pattern on which He has made mankind: no change (let there be) in the work (wrought) by Allah: that is the standard Religion: but most among mankind understand not. (Yusuf Ali)

Bukhari 4775
Allah's Messenger pbuh said, "No child is born except on Al-Fitra (Islam) and then his parents make him Jewish, Christian or Magian, as an animal produces a perfect young animal: do you see any part of its body amputated?" 'The religion of pure Islamic Faith (Hanifa),(i.e. to worship none but Allah), The pure Allah's Islamic nature with which He (Allah) has created mankind. Let There be no change in Allah's religion (i.e. to join none in Allah's worship). That is the straight religion; but most of men know not..." (30.30)

أَخْبَرَنَا يُونُسُ، عَنِ الزُّهْرِيِّ، قَالَ أَخْبَرَنِي أَبُو سَلَمَةَ بْنُ عَبْدِ الرَّحْمَنِ، أَنَّ أَبَا هُرَيْرَةَ ـ رضى الله عنه ـ قَالَ قَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏"‏ مَا مِنْ مَوْلُودٍ إِلاَّ يُولَدُ عَلَى الْفِطْرَةِ، فَأَبَوَاهُ يُهَوِّدَانِهِ أَوْ يُنَصِّرَانِهِ أَوْ يُمَجِّسَانِهِ، كَمَا تُنْتَجُ الْبَهِيمَةُ بَهِيمَةً جَمْعَاءَ، هَلْ تُحِسُّونَ فِيهَا مِنْ جَدْعَاءَ ‏"‏ ثُمَّ يَقُولُ ‏{‏فِطْرَةَ اللَّهِ الَّتِي فَطَرَ النَّاسَ عَلَيْهَا لاَ تَبْدِيلَ لِخَلْقِ اللَّهِ ذَلِكَ الدِّينُ الْقَيِّمُ‏

Could you elucidate what you mean and understand by Fitrah

TenQ:
You quoted things my Jesus never said from a man who lived 630 years after Him and you expect me to adopt them as TRUE just because your prophet said so!?
Does this make sense to you?
All I need to do is to point out inconsistencies in your narrative and it would be clear to you that this is a complete fabricated story.


A human being is a physical being according to your beliefs or do you now believe that man is a trinity or at least a duality ?
Therefore, a man can only be created when he has his physical body complete.
Thus Creating you then fashioned you is the same thing.


Even though this narration of Quran 7:172-173 is false, Jesus is not a descendant of Adam for Genealogy is determined generally through the male line (patriarchally).

When is a human being created or come into existence: is it at birth or before birth?
Quran 7:172-173 is true only if you concur that humans exist fully before they physically come into existence.
Again, is a human being a trinity/duality according to Islam?


Muslims are the only people i know who would do everything to misinterprete the words of their Allah.
Allah did NOT say what you are inserting into his mouth!
Is the Quran not easy to comprehend again?
Jesus is the Spirit from Allah
Jesus is the Word of Allah
It cannot be clearer than this sir!

All you needed to do is also to answer the questions
a. What is a Spirit?
If you do not know what a spirit is, how can you understand that Jesus IS a Spirit

b. Is the breath of Allah spirit?
c. Is Jibril a spirit?


You tell me!
I have shown you the implication if humans existed before they are born: is human being created as trinity/duality?
So, which one?


Are you wiser than your Allah?
What is the criteria given by Allah for the Creator?

Quran 22:73
O men! Here is a parable set forth! listen to it! Those on whom, besides Allah, ye call, cannot create (even) a fly, if they all met together for the purpose! and if the fly should snatch away anything from them, they would have no power to release it from the fly. Feeble are those who petition and those whom they petition!

Don't ask stupid question or I will ask you about where it is recorded in the Quran that Allah created the waters or the centipedes or the bacteria or the amoeba or the butterfly: this argument is feeble and at best lame.

Is it UNTRUE that Jesus created a BIRD exactly like Allah created Adam.


Once you answer my questions I've been asking you, you will see.

1. Is this Narrative of Sahih Bukhari 4712; 7440 a true or false occurrence?
If the above is TRUE,

2. Then answer me: Is this hadith below also true?
Sunan Ibn Majah 4308
It was narrated from Abu Sa’eed that the Messenger of Allah said:
“I am the leader of the sons of Adam, and it is no boast. I will be the first one for whom the earth will be split open on the Day of Resurrection, and it is no boast. I will be the first to intercede and the first whose intercession will be accepted, and it is no boast. The banner of praise will be in my hand on the Day of Resurrection, and it is no boast.”

Oh now this is your argument?
A future occurrence to happen on the day of judgement which is to come or what are you trying to say? What wasn't said?

What inconsistencies? I don't get it.

Don't make me fall of the chair laughing. You mean having a soul equates to a duality/trinity which you apply to the almighty God. Please where is the body of God. You can be silly to say it was your Jesus that was rough handled and crucified. Oh how powerless this god of yours must be.

The narration in Quran 7:172-173 is false? How did you arrive at that? The Holy spirit told you? Oh please!

You feign a misunderstanding because it doesn't agree with you? Yes indeed Tenq created his god in his own image that does what Tenq wants and believes to be right.

Can I get a truthful answer of you? The spirit in all humans was created and originates from where? Does any other thing have the ability to create a spirit?

Do explain this as it is not making sense

.

You refer to Quran 22:73 and this is accepted as truth by you yet you refect Quran 7:172-173? Does this not make you like the Pharisee elders Jesus was against? You twist the scripture to your taste. Do one thing and preach another.

You selectively refuse or pretend to not see that Jesus created by leave of Allah that is Allah allowed this to be so for a miracle/sign to be seen by the Israelites?
When Manna fell for the Israelites feeding during their Exodus was this Moses's doing or God's? Truly why you are cautioned in Quran 4:171 O People of the Book! Do not go to extremes regarding your faith; say nothing about Allah except the truth.
Is it not an extreme asserted by you that Jesus created not the one from whom Jesus comes as a messenger? Did the Angel that came to Mary create Jesus or Allah/God?

Created a bird exactly how Adam was created?
Ok for added clarity did the Bird Jesus created have any other being commanded to bow to it? Was it placed at a place and given instructions of what to do and not do by Jesus? I haven't seen this do point it out to me please.
In any case Jesus creating Birds isn't in your Bible or is it? Kindly show and remind me. But you accept that part of the Quran to be true and others false?

1. The Narrative in 4712 and 7440 is a revelation of what is to come. Let's see at the time of Judgement.

2. Perharps you can tell me as thd expert of Islamic literature. Is it different in truth from the other hadiths you share?

And for the question you appear to stop short of asking Quran 42:29
And of his signs is the creation of the heavens and earth and what He has dispersed throughout them of creatures. And He, for gathering them when He wills, is competent.

Greenholics:
You can major in minor all you want but still doesn’t change the fact that Catholics are Christian’s and the core of Christianity is Jesus Christ as a matter of fact Christian’s means “Christ like” even your Quran calls him an “holy”


You can cry about that all you want but that doesn’t mean or change the fact that you are still a black stone licker…….. and you are guilt if patronizing ashewo sim the name of mutah …. Your religion enforces that.

Boohoo, what a piece to read through.

Alas you failed to comprehend that there are disagreements amongst the Christians in the religion. Starting from the nature of Jesus, celebrating his birth, the day of worship to name a few.

It is perculiar that the nature of Jesus was forcefully compelled by the Roman persecutors.

Enjoy your amusement in misunderstanding.

TenQ:
1. Jesus wasn't made from mud (different from Adam)
2. Jesus was a Spirit from Allah and his Word.
If Jesus was a spirit FROM Allah, he Pre-existed before his incarnation.
3. All sons of Adam die and decompose : what happened to Jesus?


My argument is that
1. Qur'an is false as Jesus wasn't created by Be!
2. Qur'an is false because Adam wasn't created by Be!
3. The way Allah created Adam is completely different from Jesus.

You were the one who raise the issue of the difficulty of Allah creating Jesus all over from mud.
I have been careful to use the Islamic Narrative of how you claim Jesus was created. I am sure you know it is different from what the Bible states about the incarnation of Jesus.



All you needed to do is to answer the question
What is a Spirit?
If you do not know what a spirit is, how can you understand that Jesus IS a Spirit

Is the breath of Allah spirit?
Is Jibril a spirit?


All your argument is saying that Jesus is a CO-CREATOR with Allah only because Allah gave Him the permission/authority/power:
Do you agree with this?

Are you aware that in Quran 3:49, Jesus used the word I ( Me, Myself) : showing that HE did all He said (permission or no permission).

By the way who else in the Universe has been given this permission?
Is it Jibril or any of the Angels, is it Satan or any of the Jinn? Is it Mohammed or any of the Sahaba?

Are you aware that Allah gave a condition in the Qur'an to know who we can worship.
Can Baal or Shaitaan create a fly?





Mohammed was NOT saved from death from the poison he ate as he himself attested AND he was in pains throughout the ordeal.

Sahih al-Bukhari 4428
Narrated `Aisha:
The Prophet (ﷺ) in his ailment in which he died, used to say, "O `Aisha! I still feel the pain caused by the food I ate at Khaibar, and at this time, I feel as if my aorta is being cut from that poison."

Do you know better than your prophet?


Okay!
The hadith is complete fabrication by Mohammed himself.
If you disagree with my position, a few questions from me will expose it.
Are you afraid!?

Let's first start with your answer to my question.
The hadith is complete fabrication by Mohammed himself.

Oh! This hadith is a fabrication and all the numerous others you share are not?

How is this? Can you prove this beyond any form of doubt? Who transmitted this hadith to you or where did you read or hear it?

Then let's look at the creation of mankind particularly at Quran 7:11; which reads:

And We created you, then fashioned you, then told the angels: Fall ye prostrate before Adam! And they fell prostrate, all save Iblis, who was not of those who make prostration.

Regarding the emboldened was the entity of man created before giving him form or vice versa? The essence, spirit or soul of man was created before it was put into the body.

Quran [7:172-173] when Allah created Adam He took a covenant from him, and then extracted from Adam all of his descendants. He took a covenant from them asking, “Am I not your lord?” and they all replied “Yes we testify to it”.

The emboldened in the paragraph us before the descendants are born into the world.
Is Jesus amongst these descendants?

Jesus is yet to die and in time he will die, be buried and decay when his earthly life will be completed before the day of judgement.


What word was conveyed to Mary the mother of Jesus? This word is the command into existence.

The conversation between Mary and the angel is to adequately inform her and not get her distressed or confused by the occurence of a pregnancy.

Quran 19 vs 34. That is Jesus son of Mary—the Word of truth about which they doubt.
And
35. It is not for God to have a child—glory be to Him. To have anything done, He says to it, “Be,” and it becomes.

Were you there when any of these commands made by Allah were made to be satisfied that he made this commands? It appears you need to have seen and heard this yourself to be convinced.


Where were the descendants of Adam whom Allah extracted from him before they were or are born into the world?

Mr Co-creator enthusiasts can you show where Jesus co created other things outside the mold of the bird that he breated into that came to life by Allah's will not Jesus's?

Like stars, mountains, rivers etc.?

Why is this life creation limited to only birds. Can you show other creatures Jesus created?

Your condition is interesting as you failed to show Jesus created a fly or you surmise that since birds fly in the sky they are equal to the fly?


So in Bukhari 4428 didn't lie but in the question I asked you he did?

How did you conclude this. I/we really want to know.

Adam and Eve were made from mud as the first humans and their descendants are made differently yet they all decompose back to dust/sand from which mud is derived?

Why are dead people buried back into the mud at least majorly?

Was Eve created from Adam?

Is it a lie that when the Angel appeared to Mary and she was troubled how she would have a child without a man the Angel said that is easy for Allah to do?
Quran 19:
19. (The angel) said: "I am only a messenger from your Lord, (to announce) to you the gift of a righteous son.''
20. She said: "How can I have a son when no man has touched me, nor am I unchaste''
21. He said: "Thus says your Lord: `That is easy for Me (Allah). And (We wish) to appoint him as a sign to mankind and a mercy from Us (Allah), and it is a matter (already) decreed (by Allah

Quran 3:59
"Indeed, the example of Jesus to Allah is like that of Adam. He created Him (i.e Adam) from dust; then He said to him, "Be," and he was."

Do you claim Isa a.s wasn't created by the command of Allah? Do clarify as you seem to put that Isa/Jesus created himself!

You selectively read Quran 4:171
O People of the Scripture! Do not exaggerate in your religion nor utter aught concerning Allah save the truth. The Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, was only a messenger of Allah, and His word which He conveyed unto Mary, and a Spirit from Him

The word here is the creation command.

Quran 15:29
So, when I have made him and have breathed into him of My Spirit, do ye fall down, prostrating yourselves unto him

Do you notice that Allah breathed directly into the mold by himself regarding the creation of Adam but in the case of Jesus this is through a messenger who is the Angel?

You say:
Quran 3:49
"And (appoint him) a messenger to the Children of Israel, (with this message): "'I have come to you, with a Sign from your Lord, in that I make for you out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, and breathe into it, and it becomes a bird by Allah's leave: And I heal those born blind, and the lepers, and I quicken the dead, by Allah's leave; and I declare to you what ye eat, and what ye store in your houses. Surely therein is a Sign for you if ye did believe


Quran 5:110
Then will Allah say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! Recount My favour to thee and to thy mother. Behold! I strengthened thee with the holy spirit, so that thou didst speak to the people in childhood and in maturity. Behold! I taught thee the Book and Wisdom, the Law and the Gospel and behold! thou makest out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, by My leave, and thou breathest into it and it becometh a bird by My leave, and thou healest those born blind, and the lepers, by My leave. And behold! thou bringest forth the dead by My leave. And behold! I did restrain the Children of Israel from (violence to) thee when thou didst show them the clear Signs, and the unbelievers among them said: 'This is nothing but evident magic.'


By Allah's leave, By my leave (who's leave is this?)

Also the restraint of Children of Israel from violence doesn't extend to the prosecution and crucifixion you profess or this act is free of being categorised as violence?

The difference is clear as Allah's creation was not by leave of any other but Jesus creation of a bird was by leave of Allah.

On the issue of a poisoned lamb Muhammad pbuh was saved unlike the one who died immediately and he continued his prophethood and journeys until he completed his prophethood and chose to be in the hereafter.
Bukhari 466 (Sahih al-Bukhari Book 8, Hadith 455)

Let's pause here. Do answer my question

Explore2xmore:
Then if Jesus is sinless and the sacrificial lamb for all humanity how come then the hadith Sahih Bukhari 4712; 7440
..........
They will go to ‘Isa and say, ‘O ‘Isa! You are the Messenger of Allah and His Word which He cast to Maryam and a spirit from Him. You spoke to people while in the cradle. Intercede with your Lord on our behalf. Do you not see what we are suffering?’ ‘Isa will say, ‘My Lord is angry today with such anger as has never existed before nor will again,’ and he did not mention a sin. ‘O my soul!My soul! My soul! Go to someone else. Go to Muhammad.'”........

I would appreciate you first answer this before going on your charade of other questions to evade answering.

TenQ:
Then kindly explain according to Islam good reasons why
1. Jesus was created by Allah without a father?
2. Why Jesus is a Co-Creators of life with Allah?
3. Why Jesus is still alive till today
4. Why only Jesus and His mother are the only humans untouched by satan
5. Finally, why did Allah say
Qur'an 9:31
ٱتَّخَذُوٓا۟ أَحْبَارَهُمْ وَرُهْبَـٰنَهُمْ أَرْبَابًا مِّن دُونِ ٱللَّهِ وَٱلْمَسِيحَ ٱبْنَ مَرْيَمَ وَمَآ أُمِرُوٓا۟ إِلَّا لِيَعْبُدُوٓا۟ إِلَـٰهًا وَٰحِدًا ۖ لَّآ إِلَـٰهَ إِلَّا هُوَ ۚ سُبْحَـٰنَهُۥ عَمَّا يُشْرِكُونَ
Did you read instead of Allah AND the Messiah


1. Which sin do you accuse Jesus of sir?
Qur'an 19:19
He said: I am only a messenger of thy Lord, that I may bestow on thee a faultless son.

Was the word Fitrah also used for John or any other person apart from Jesus?

Is Qur'an 19:19 an error?

2. You assume to much my friend!

Is this Narrative of Sahih Bukhari 4712; 7440 a true or false occurrence?

If the above is TRUE,

Then answer me: Is this hadith below also true?
Sunan Ibn Majah 4308
It was narrated from Abu Sa’eed that the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said:
“I am the leader of the sons of Adam, and it is no boast. I will be the first one for whom the earth will be split open on the Day of Resurrection, and it is no boast. I will be the first to intercede and the first whose intercession will be accepted, and it is no boast. The banner of praise will be in my hand on the Day of Resurrection, and it is no boast.”

Man like Tenq are now so pompous to determine what the creator should do and not do?

1. Yes Jesus was created without a father but then which would be easier creating without just a father or creating without both a father and mother as is the case of Adam?

Also, from Adam, Eve was created without a father or mother unless you take Adam as her father since she was taken from him?

Verily, the likeness of ‘Iesa (Jesus) before Allah is the likeness of Adam. He created him from dust, then (He) said to him: “Be!” – and he was.
Quran 3:59

Some claim is made that Jesus is Allah’s son because he was created without a father, then the same claim is more befitting of Adam who has no father or mother even more.

There is no such claim regarding Adam or even Eve as I have indicated above?

2. Where is Jesus stated to be a co creator with Allah? Any similitude of this expresses this with the will/leave of Allah and there's no indication of the creation of a human being.

3. Jesus is still alive for his death is yet to come. Allah has saved him from a disgraceful are torturous killing to a future time when he will die and be buried. This time will be indicative of the time when the Earthly world will come to an end and judgement day will be.

4. The Quran mentions that when Allah blessed Jesus with support of the holy spirit, Satan could not hinder or harm him in any way.

You refer to Abu Huraira said, "I heard Allah's Messenger pbuh saying, 'There is none born among the off-spring of Adam, but Satan touches it. A child therefore, cries loudly at the time of birth because of the touch of Satan, except Mary and her child." Then Abu Huraira recited: "And I seek refuge with You for her and for her offspring from the outcast Satan" (3.36)

[But when she delivered her, she said, "My Lord, I have delivered a female." And Allah was most knowing of what she delivered, "And the male is not like the female. And I have named her Mary, and I seek refuge for her in You and [for] her descendants from Satan, the expelled [from the mercy of Allah]."

Well in today's practice when a Baby doesn't cry at birth it is seen to be a problem and the medics do what they can to get these babies to cry. Perhaps the doctors don't know that these babies weren't touched by Satan at birth.


And finally you are now an expert of arabic language and couldn't provide an exact textual statement of Jihad from the Quran different from Kital?

You sure have a misinterpretation or translation of Quran 9:31 where you don't understand the interaction of verbs and subjects.

Do ٱتَّخَذُوٓا۟ and وَٱلْمَسِيحَ ٱبْنَ مَرْيَمَ not have a relation for verb and subject noun?

in comparison to مِّن دُونِ and ٱللَّهِ or you are confused due to the positions occupied by Allah and Isa?



I didn't accuse Isa of a Sin but showed that John the Baptist is referred to as pure and free of Sin.

Allah Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala said:

قَالَ إِنَّمَآ أَنَا۠ رَسُولُ رَبِّكِ لِأَهَبَ لَكِ غُلَٰمًا زَكِيًّا
"He said, "I am only the messenger of your Lord to give you [news of] a pure boy.""


Recheck against your translation.

Sadly you refused or evaded to answer by asking questions why Isa will say, ‘My Lord is angry today with such anger as has never existed before nor will again,’ and he did not mention a sin. ‘O my soul!My soul! My soul! Go to someone else. Go to Muhammad

Kindly answer or submit you have no answer.
This is because going by your view that Jesus was sacrificed to redeem mankind (summarised) how come the 'sacrifice' isn't fulfilling it's work of being sacrificed?

Greenholics:
I see you have jumped to council of Nicaea and different sect in Christianity there by totally avoids the topic of discussion ….. but do forget your prophet was born way after the council of Nicaea and yet he “ confirming the Scripture they had ˹in their hands” even a pedo. And sexual deviant like muhammed couldn’t deny the truth and the core of Christianity.


Also remember your religion has 73

Ibn Majah 3992
. I swear by the One Whose Hand is the soul of Muhammad, my nation will split into seventy-three sects, one of which will be in Paradise and seventy-two in Hell.” It was said: “O Messenger of Allah, who are they?” He said: “The main body.”

حَدَّثَنَا عَمْرُو بْنُ عُثْمَانَ بْنِ سَعِيدِ بْنِ كَثِيرِ بْنِ دِينَارٍ الْحِمْصِيُّ، حَدَّثَنَا عَبَّادُ بْنُ يُوسُفَ، حَدَّثَنَا صَفْوَانُ بْنُ عَمْرٍو، عَنْ رَاشِدِ بْنِ سَعْدٍ، عَنْ عَوْفِ بْنِ مَالِكٍ، قَالَ قَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ ـ صلى الله عليه وسلم ـ ‏"‏ افْتَرَقَتِ الْيَهُودُ عَلَى إِحْدَى وَسَبْعِينَ فِرْقَةً فَوَاحِدَةٌ فِي الْجَنَّةِ وَسَبْعُونَ فِي النَّارِ وَافْتَرَقَتِ النَّصَارَى عَلَى ثِنْتَيْنِ وَسَبْعِينَ فِرْقَةً فَإِحْدَى وَسَبْعُونَ فِي النَّارِ وَوَاحِدَةٌ فِي الْجَنَّةِ وَالَّذِي نَفْسُ مُحَمَّدٍ بِيَدِهِ لَتَفْتَرِقَنَّ أُمَّتِي عَلَى ثَلاَثٍ وَسَبْعِينَ فِرْقَةً فَوَاحِدَةٌ فِي الْجَنَّةِ وَثِنْتَانِ وَسَبْعُونَ فِي النَّارِ ‏"‏ ‏.‏ قِيلَ يَا رَسُولَ اللَّهِ مَنْ هُمْ قَالَ ‏"‏ الْجَمَاعَةُ ‏"‏ ‏.‏


Even Sunni and Shia are sworn Enemies and kill themselves

Even the Quran y’all have 7 different Quran …..

The names of the 7 types of Qirat:
* Qirat Naafi' Al-Madani (Madinah)
* Qirat Ibn Katheer Al-Makki (Makkah)
* Qirat Abu Amr al-Basri (Basra)
* Qirat Ibn Aamir ash-Shami (Syria)
* Qirat Asim Al-Kufi (Kufa)
* Qirat Hamzah al-Kufi (Kufa)
* Qirat Al-Kisaa'i (Kufa)



I will do a post on the limitation of Allah …. How your god has 2 right hands,and sits on top the head of a rooster or how he commanded y’all to sleep with your children, how Sperm turn to blood or how s£xual fluid of a woman comes from the ribs …….. I will dedicate the post of you

Why do you hide most of the translation of Ibn Majah 3992 into English?

Amr bin Uthman bin Saeed bin Katheer bin Dinar Al-Homsi told us, Abbad bin Yusuf told us, Safwan bin Amr told us, on the authority of Rashid bin Sa’ D, on the authority of Awf bin Malik, the Messenger of God, may God bless him and grant him peace, said: “The Jews divided into seventy-one One sect is in Paradise, and seventy-one are in Hell. And the Christians split into seventy-two sects, so seventy-one are in Hell, and one is in Paradise. By the hand of Muhammad’s soul, my nation will be divided into seventy-three sects, one in Paradise and seventy-two in Hell. It was said, O Messenger of God, who are they that will be in paradise? He said "The main group


You mentioned 7 Qiraat or recitations can you tell the differences in the messages of these recitals? Do they contradict one another?

TenQ:
Jesus was sinless and thus able to be a sacrifice for the sin of mankind of those who believe on Him.
Hatun is a sinner just like everyone else therefore she herself needs a saviour as Christ.

Why is Jesus (and his mother) the only ones that satan did not touch at birth in this world?


Sahih Muslim 2366 c
Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger as saying:
The satan touches every son of Adam on the day when his mother gives birth to him with the exception of Mary and her son.


True children of God will lay down their lives if need be. It is part of our calling as people will murder us thinking that they do God a service.
John 16:2-3:
"They shall put you out of the synagogues: yes, the time comes, that whoever kills you will think that he does God service. And these things will they do to you, because they have not known the Father, nor me."

And of course you qualify as you neither know the Father nor the Christ Himself.

Indeed your topic about an unknown whereabout of Hatan Behind is just a means to express your view and excessive worship of Jesus not who is to be worshipped.

Hopefully you wouldn't evade but can you explain why the word zakattan which means purity from filth, wickedness and sins is used for Yahya a.s (John the Baptist) in Quran 19:13?

Then if Jesus is sinless and the sacrificial lamb for all humanity how come then the hadith Sahih Bukhari 4712; 7440
..........
They will go to ‘Isa and say, ‘O ‘Isa! You are the Messenger of Allah and His Word which He cast to Maryam and a spirit from Him. You spoke to people while in the cradle. Intercede with your Lord on our behalf. Do you not see what we are suffering?’ ‘Isa will say, ‘My Lord is angry today with such anger as has never existed before nor will again,’ and he did not mention a sin. ‘O my soul!My soul! My soul! Go to someone else. Go to Muhammad.'”........

Greenholics:
I see you have jumped to council of Nicaea and different sect in Christianity there by totally avoids the topic of discussion ….. but do forget your prophet was born way after the council of Nicaea and yet he “ confirming the Scripture they had ˹in their hands” even a pedo. And sexual deviant like muhammed couldn’t deny the truth and the core of Christianity.


Also remember your religion has 73

Ibn Majah 3992
. I swear by the One Whose Hand is the soul of Muhammad, my nation will split into seventy-three sects, one of which will be in Paradise and seventy-two in Hell.” It was said: “O Messenger of Allah, who are they?” He said: “The main body.”

حَدَّثَنَا عَمْرُو بْنُ عُثْمَانَ بْنِ سَعِيدِ بْنِ كَثِيرِ بْنِ دِينَارٍ الْحِمْصِيُّ، حَدَّثَنَا عَبَّادُ بْنُ يُوسُفَ، حَدَّثَنَا صَفْوَانُ بْنُ عَمْرٍو، عَنْ رَاشِدِ بْنِ سَعْدٍ، عَنْ عَوْفِ بْنِ مَالِكٍ، قَالَ قَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ ـ صلى الله عليه وسلم ـ ‏"‏ افْتَرَقَتِ الْيَهُودُ عَلَى إِحْدَى وَسَبْعِينَ فِرْقَةً فَوَاحِدَةٌ فِي الْجَنَّةِ وَسَبْعُونَ فِي النَّارِ وَافْتَرَقَتِ النَّصَارَى عَلَى ثِنْتَيْنِ وَسَبْعِينَ فِرْقَةً فَإِحْدَى وَسَبْعُونَ فِي النَّارِ وَوَاحِدَةٌ فِي الْجَنَّةِ وَالَّذِي نَفْسُ مُحَمَّدٍ بِيَدِهِ لَتَفْتَرِقَنَّ أُمَّتِي عَلَى ثَلاَثٍ وَسَبْعِينَ فِرْقَةً فَوَاحِدَةٌ فِي الْجَنَّةِ وَثِنْتَانِ وَسَبْعُونَ فِي النَّارِ ‏"‏ ‏.‏ قِيلَ يَا رَسُولَ اللَّهِ مَنْ هُمْ قَالَ ‏"‏ الْجَمَاعَةُ ‏"‏ ‏.‏


Even Sunni and Shia are sworn Enemies and kill themselves

Even the Quran y’all have 7 different Quran …..

The names of the 7 types of Qirat:
* Qirat Naafi' Al-Madani (Madinah)
* Qirat Ibn Katheer Al-Makki (Makkah)
* Qirat Abu Amr al-Basri (Basra)
* Qirat Ibn Aamir ash-Shami (Syria)
* Qirat Asim Al-Kufi (Kufa)
* Qirat Hamzah al-Kufi (Kufa)
* Qirat Al-Kisaa'i (Kufa)



I will do a post on the limitation of Allah …. How your god has 2 right hands,and sits on top the head of a rooster or how he commanded y’all to sleep with your children, how Sperm turn to blood or how s£xual fluid of a woman comes from the ribs …….. I will dedicate the post of you

Greenholics:
Quran 5:14

Sahih International
And from those who say, "We are Christians" We took their covenant; but they forgot a portion of that of which they were reminded. So We caused among them animosity and hatred until the Day of Resurrection. And Allah is going to inform them about what they used to do.

Explore2xmore:
Obvious difference between between being literate and educated. So we caused among them animosity. Animosity among who? No other but the Christians

How do Christians see Catholics and vice versa?
How do Christians view Arians, Unitarians etc?

I have explained what is clearly stated in the translation of the meaning of Quran 5:14.

Were the council meetings not to address the disagreement in terms of doctrine?

In fact under the Constantinople and the Roman emperors wasn't the doctrine of Trinity enforced? Following that of Nicea to support a divinity of the Christian Jesus.

Do Jebovah witnesses here on nairaland agree with Christian interpretation of the scripture?

Are there groups of Christians that worship on Saturday not Sunday? Is this a reflection of disagreement about the Sabbath?

Do you not have Christians that disagree about celebrating Christmas?

What brings about animosity as seen in Quran 5:14? Is this not often due to disagreement?

TenQ:
We give thanks to God she's not been murdered in the name of Allah.

Interesting though as Christianity views Jesus as murdered on the cross as a sacrifice.

Wouldn't it have been nice for Hatun to follow suit and destroy the differences between Muslims and Christians.

Anyhoo congratulations. Your subject is addressed.

Did the Council of Nicaea settle the matter of Arianism?

Not remotely. Arianism was actually the official orthodoxy of the Eastern Roman Empire until 381, when the Council of Constantinople declared the doctrine of the Trinity—that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are three equal parts of the single Godhead.

Interesting limitations of a supreme deity to just 3 parts.

Oh Yes you're right


The Christian church, like the Judaic church before it, was committed to monotheism: all the Abrahamic religions say there is only one God. Arius (256–336 CE), a fairly obscure scholar and presbyter at Alexandria and originally from Libya, is said to have argued that the incarnation of Jesus Christ threatened that monotheistic status of the Christian church, because he was not of the same substance as God, instead a creature made by God and so capable of vice.

The Nicean council had three goals:

1. to resolve the Melitian controversy (A division in the Church in Egypt during the fourth century. It was started by Melitius, Bishop of Lycopolis, Egypt, who objected to the conciliatory way that St. Peter, Archbishop of Alexandria, was restoring lapsed Catholics to the Church. Another schism, by the same name, occurred in Antioch during a quarrel between two orthodox claimants to the episcopal see. St. Melitius, who had the rightful claim, suffered exile and temporary from estrangement from Rome because of misrepresentation by his Arian opponents) —which was over the readmission to the Church of lapsed Christians,

2. to establish how to calculate the date of Easter each year, and


3. to settle matters stirred up by Arius, the presbyter at Alexandria.

Are there disagreements between Jehovah witnesses and Christians; the group of Christians that don't celebrate christmas. You really want more proof of disagreement between 'Christians '?