₦airaland Forum

Obiagu1:
I bet many people here can't sing it.

Maybe he should show his brothers up North.  

Aigbofa:
You are infinitely stupi.d. Do you know me beyond NL? On what basis are you better than me?
I shouldn't be having this type of vacous discussion, but since you want to go there, let's go.

Did I struck a chord? How easy it is to get you people riled up? It would have been better if you have ignored my post, but knowing your vanity, I can see why you feel that sort of way. Like a dog follow your master.

Aigbofa:
Of course not. You are ibo, uniquely created by God to be the best in everything.

God has given us all the ability to achieve greatness. No matter the race, creed or language. I am just better than you and it is as simple as that. Not, because I am Igbo.

Aigbofa:
EzeUche to raise his game? What game? He doesn't have any! You give him too much credit, he wouldn't distinguish his right hand from the left.

You are not worth the dirt beneath my sandal. You have no room to talk.

Obiagu1:
He actually owned a house in Enugu but gave to the government for use as hospital, I think the present location of Enugu orthopedic hospital.

How I wish he was the leader of NCNC, maybe things would have been different.

The main was really a great man. He was so selfless, that I have not come across any Nigerian politician who loved his people like Dr. Michael Okpara did for the Eastern people.

He not only helped Igbos, he helped Ogoni, Ijaws, Ibibios etc. We are indebted to the man and he should be worthy of praise.

How come he does not get the recognition he deserves? A Igbo traitor like Nnamdi Azikiwe seems to get more recognition.

SapeleGuy:
Obviously dem smoke Igbo! Highest grade.

I have provided you with a name, Dr. Michaek Okpara who was not corrupt and you still have yet to answer. It goes to show that my hero goes unblemished while Okotie-Eboh will be known throughout history as one of the 1st Republic most corrupt official.

How does that feel?

Katsumoto:
What did you smoke tonight? I don't do running battles with anyone, least with those who can't raise their games. Outright hostilities have been kept off Nairaland!!!! Your mind is playing tricks on you; you are not relevant to me on or off NL. I think you are mistaking me for those you engage in your Igbo v Everyone other Nigeria threads.

Get off your high horse. You are in the same boat as most of us. Now that you have been unmasked, get over it. Stop licking your wounds and move on. The fact that you had to answer Onlytruth, Chyz and I commentary concerning your POV, shows that you have been wounded.

Someone who would not care of what I think, would not have commented. Am I correct or not?

You are no different from any of us.

ezeagu:
I've already listed what Africa has benefited. There really is no difference between what you are saying for the Roman Empire and what the British Empire did.

There is a lot of differences, between what I am saying. However, I digress from that discussion. Just look at the borders that were created and see how we have benefited from those colonial borders.

ezeagu:
Just replace Roman with British and Latin with English and you'll sound like a British officer sent to Nigerian in the 20's.

You are comparing two separate things. There was no altruism, when the British came to Africa, Asia and the Americas. They only destroyed and pillaged the land. Look at what their settlers did to the Native Americans. One of the worse genocides that has every occurred in world history.

At least the Romans allowed their conquered subjects practice their traditional religion, speak their language and continue to have their form of government. As long as their conquered subjects recognize Rome's authority, the people lived in harmony.

The British destroyed many of culture, traditional beliefs, form of governments, corrupted our languages etc.

ezeagu:
Would you sell a portion of Arochukwu to Chinese businessmen?

I would open Arochukwu for Chinese investment. And I would not stop Chinese businessmen buying up private property in Arochukwu. As long as they pay their taxes, higher local people and improve our infrastructure. The Chinese are not here to stay in Africa, they are only trying to make money.

ezeagu:
Eh, is Tibet their own nation? What about Taiwan? Is it fair to say the British only wanted to conquer and the Chinese only cared about their country?

China has always claimed Tibet. Remember that Tibet was part of China during the Qing Dynasty. The Chinese saw their invasion of Tibet as recapturing terrotory that was lost during the upheaval in China after the fall of the Qing dynasty.

Taiwan as always been a territory of China. And the Taiwanese people are Chinese. They were just part of the political faction that lost the Chinese civil war and fled to Taiwan. China can claim Taiwan.

The British conquest were in far flung areas. How can you compare Chinese conquest of regions that have been traditionally part of China with British conquest of other people? You cannot compare the two, so that is a red herring.

ezeagu:
No. If they wanted slaves they could use African to develop their colonies, or they could use the trade for profit if they wanted or needed to. If Africans themselves were selling African people, why would outsiders not? Plus we've seen enough genocides by Africans that has nearly outdone the British slave trade in deaths.

And what were Chinese colonies if I may ask? The Chinese did not believe in slavery in the sense that Europeans believe in slavery. By that time, I think slavery was actually outlawed in China since the Han dynasty, which was in BCE. China's population allowed them not worry about slavery which was a fact.

They had Chinese peasants that they could use for labor.

And what genocides have Africans participated in that could number the lives lost in the Atlantic Slave trade in which 150 million enslaved Africans were taken from the continent. The Rwandan genocide cannot be compared to that, in which only 500,000 people lost their lives.

Pre-Colonial Africa was not in constant war.

Maybe Anambra people will finally stay in their own state instead of coming to Abia, Imo, Ebonyi etc.

I am just joking.

SapeleGuy:
Ezeuche simply list the people who you believe were not corrupt and list their achievements. Simple (lol you can't use Awolowo)

Low blow brother!  

Dr. Michael Okpara is my hero

-Revolutionized agriculture in Eastern Nigeria
-Focused on the industrialization of cities such as Port Harcourt, Calabar, Aba, Enugu and Umuahia
-Focused on educational and infrastructural development throughout Eastern Nigeria.

Dr. Micheal Okpara did not build or own a house of his own, either at Umuegwu, his village, or anywhere else in Nigeria when he was in government.

Many Igbo had chipped in to build him a single storey house in Umuegwu, when he returned to Nigeria in 1979.

SapeleGuy is leading a passionate defense of Okotie-Eboh. That is something I will not deny.

shotster50:
I think it is pointless blaming any country for  empire biulding. It is the rule of nature that  the strong will always make the weak submissive. History is littered with so many instances ( Egypt,Greek, Roman, Persian, Ottoman, Mongol,etc) .
We need to move on from this blame game and move on.

How easy it would be able to move on, if the British did not interfere in our government. However, we all know the British have never left Nigeria. They may have given us "political" freedom, but they continue to play role in our economy. And our leaders do listen to what their leaders have to tell us.

Neo-colonialism is alive and well and you will be a fool to deny this.

SapeleGuy:
Spoken like the rabid coup plotter and anarchist that you are. Tribalism may be your yardstick but mine are ability and patriotism.

As long as Nigeria continues to exist we owe a debt of gratitude to the late Okotie-Eboh

- He gave us the Central Bank of Nigeria,
- He gave us our Naira notes
- He gave us the Nigeria Industrial Development Bank
- He gave us the Nigeria Stock Exchange
- He was one of the key drivers  for the creation of Mid West Region
- He helped Nigeria avert war with Spain over Fernando Po.
- Whilst in Fernando Po, he negotiated better labour service conditions for the largely Igbo workforce from the Spanish authorities. The agreement    provided for a wage increase of 25 per cent for the workers and compensation to be paid by the employer to a labourer or his family in the event of  any injury sustained at work.
-He led Nigeria to the World Bank
-He led Nigeria to the United Nations Economic Commission for Africa.
-He got Eko Bridge built.

Over to you. As you can see this man served all of Nigeria.

You only support the man, because he is a minority from you region. That is the only reason. Many people, Yorubas, Igbos etc have called this man corrupt. Just say you support the man, because he was minority.

- He gave us the Central Bank of Nigeria

The man copied a system, that was already in place in the world. Most nations have a central bank, so he would be foolish not do to this.

- He gave us our Naira notes

Don't we need money in order to have commerce? Anyone in his position would have done the same thing.

- He gave us the Nigeria Industrial Development Bank

I dey laugh. And what good has this bank done for Nigeria? Probably another programme that he used to pocket money.

- He gave us the Nigeria Stock Exchange

Not impressed. Another system that was copied.

- He was one of the key drivers  for the creation of Mid West Region

And we care? The man was running from Yoruba domination. That is understandable. I can understand why you loved this man so much, because of that action.

- He helped Nigeria avert war with Spain over Fernando Po.

Ok, I will give him some credit for that. Kudos to him.

He still was corrupt as they come.

jason123:
@ bolded
FUNNY!!! So, you and Onlytruth are the "other people", abi?

Chyz, Udezue and others. This has been an ongoing battle between Katsumoto and I. It has been a cold war, in which outright hostilities have been kept off of Nairaland, between us. But he continues to be a thorn in our side with his ploy to blame everything on the Igbo. I am tired of it.

ezeagu:
The great Roman roads and buildings that are in Britain today were not built for the British people either. These positive things may have originally been used for exploitation but you cannot deny that Nigeria became better with them.

You do know the Romans moved to their provinces. And they created cities, roads and other structures that would resemble home. They even allowed their subjects to join politics even though they were not Romans by birth. That is why the Roman empire was able to last so long, because it was a multi-ethnic empire. You even had non-Romans emperors like Diocletian, Constantine, Romulus Augustus etc. The Romans used cultural imperialism, but many people benefited from this.

What have we as Africans benefited from British colonialism?

ezeagu:
And Cornish. The language on the coat of arms is Latin, the language of education for a certain amount of time in Britain was Latin (and is still kind of) even Nigerians sometimes go of speaking Latin to sound intelligent.

Cornish for ostensive purposes is a extinct language. Latin was used by many nations for educational purposes, because the Romans were more advanced than the barbarians that conquered the Western half of the Roman empire. So, I can understand why Latin was still used. Even the Roman Catholic Church still uses Latin.

ezeagu:
Well, they're making up for it. The Chinese didn't take fool hold of the world, not because they were 'nice' (ask Tibet) but because they had internal problems, civil wars, rival politicians bringing their own laws on what China should or shouldn't do. I don't believe that China would not have joined the Atlantic slave trade if they could.

The Chinese are not here to colonize Africa. They come to Africa as businessmen, and they do not get involved with the local governments. That is something that I like about the Chinese. Now the British continue to play a role in many African governments through their companies. This is NEO-COLONIALISM.

And the Chinese were quite stable when they were exploring the globe. I think it was the Tang Dynasty that sent Zheng He to the East coast of Africa to open up trade routes. The Chinese in the past cared about their own nation, and only searched for partners. The British only wanted to conquer. And the Chinese would not have joined the Atlantic Slave trade, because they have always had a booming population.

Katsumoto:
@ OnlyTruth and EzeUche

I debate from a position which is based on facts open to me, we are all not supposed to agree on all issues. Your continued attempts at characterising me are immature and silly. Instead of putting counter-arguments that support your position, you resort to unnecessary insults. If I am a bigot for stating my positions what word can we use to describe both of you who are both known for characterising groups of people in bad light? At least you will not find a single post where I made incendiary comments about a group of people. I dare you to expose me if I am telling lies.

Frankly, I don't give a damn what you think as long as I keep flogging both of you 'emotional' men.

I will be the first to answer you with your assertions. I have said time and time again, that you are a tribalist. The way you tend to portray history that would put Igbos always in a bad light is something I have noticed from you the first time we encountered each other. Other people have just realized this, but I have said this before many months ago.

You are a tribalist even though you know how to act like a scholar who knows what he is talking about. You are a smooth talker. Most Igbos would fail to recognize your ploy, but I have your card. I have encountered your type before, and I will continue to call a spade a spade. You are not hiding from anyone anymore.

You may call some of us a bigot, but at least most people know where we stand. Now you are someone who likes to hide behind a mask.

SapeleGuy:
As I stated previously a little knowledge is dangerous in the hands of some people. So you are now criticising him for placing tariffs on imported goods- a policy that was designed to encourage entrepreneurship, manufacturing and job creation in Nigeria.

He did it to benefit himself. That is the only reason he did that. To help his company, he imposed tariffs on shoes, so he could create monopoly for himself. There is something morally wrong with that action.

I can see you are looking through tribal lens. The way you are defending Okotie-Eboh's actions.

ezeagu:
Do you really believe that? They created Nigeria's railway, gave them some other long distance transport like ships, introduced materials such as cement, introduced higher science's such as improvements biology, introduced technologies that brought about new ways of making money like coal mining, introduced electricity, introduced foods that gave people a more balanced diet, killed some practices that weren't good, and so many other things such as opening regions to the wider world. You could say that the British peoples languages before the Romans were beautiful, but now they are mixed with so many Latin words.

They created railways, which benefited them and not the people who inhabit the regions. You know and I know that those railways were used for exploitation of the people. Minerals and other resources were placed on those railways that led to the coast to benefit the "mother country." The bad outweighs the small good that they gave the peoples of Nigeria.

And the English language was more influenced by the Saxons, more so than the Romans. English is actually a Germanic language. It is not a Celtic language like the original inhabitants of England spoke. Only Celtic languages in existence is Welsh, Scottish and Irish.

ezeagu:
So the British are just people who got to that position when any other groups would have done the same if they had the chance.

There were many nations that were in the British position at one time or the other and they did not exploit others. China was a great power and they did not subjugate others like the Europeans did. They only came to the East Coast of Africa to trade. China only focused on their nation, instead of the subjugation of others. That is why I view them favorably.

And I doubt African groups if place in the same position would have been barbaric like the British.

Ezeagu,

I did not know you enjoyed history so much. Very impressive I must say.

But what did the British do that was beneficial for Nigeria or any of its colonies? I have yet, to see anything that is worthy to say that they helped us in any way, except for giving us their language at the detriment of our own beautiful indigenous languages.

And you said the British were not violent? They destroyed my village and slaughtered many people in cold blood. Yes, they could be quite violent.

afam4eva:
Even till this day Britain always thing it's colonies owes her a favour not thinking that it's the other way round. Look at other colonialist like the french and the way they are assisting their colonies in every way possible by Britain is still looting from poor and helpless countries. Like the one they stole is not enough.

That is why I loathe Great Britain more than other nation in the world. No nation has caused misery like the British have done. A close second though is Portugal, but the British really wrecked havoc across the globe. Look at India/Pakistan, Israel/Palestine, Nigeria, Iraq, Afghanistan. The list is endless.

ezeagu:
Go to the English city of Bath and ask them who physically built all the Roman wash houses there.

But the Romans actually tried to improve their provinces (colonies). They introduced to them Roman civilization, architecture, language, arts, and other scientific achievements.

What did the British introduce to their colonies? Only misery and theft.

ezeagu:
I wouldn't call it theft, but 'conquest', don't forget where you're from.

There are countries like Spain who have ransacked more times than Britain, but where are they now. The people of Britain are just an experienced set of people who's island had been prey to other people like the Romans and Vikings for thousands of years. No other country had experience in battle, conquest, and failure like the British did, so by the time they got their heads into something they were good at (the sea) there was no stopping them.

The truth is the British had been slaves longer than they had bee enslavers.

Well, there is now!

My brother, I see that you study history as well.

Spain is not wealthy, because they overstretched themselves in the Americas. That is where all their wealth went into, trying to quell popular revolts from Chile all the way to Mexico. An overstretched empire, will suffer in terms of wealth.

Do not give me that nonsense about that island, being plundered through the centuries. lol

Yes, the Romans invaded the island.

Yes, the Saxons invaded the island.

Yes, the Vikings invaded that island.

Finally, yes the Normans invaded that island.

But the fact remains, the Great Britain would not be where it is, without the wealth that it stole from its colonies and overseas empire. You cannot deny that fact.

SapeleGuy:
You are clueless, fed who? Okotie-Eboh bankrolled the NCNC. Fact.

Just come out and be honest and say you do not like people who are not Igbo. Stop all this slander. Please post evidence of Okotie- Ebohs corruption? Just one or forever hold your pis s.

Read these letters between Okotie- Eboh and Zik. Funnily enough he was referring the thieves in the NCNC, the ones who eventually planned to kill him because he was 'blocking' them.

http://www.tribune.com.ng/index.php/in-a-out/14027-conspiracy-against-festus-samuel-okotie-eboh-4

Why are you protecting Okotie-Eboh?

Okotie-Eboh desecrated the Office & coffers of Government entrusted to him at a time when commiting Fraud was unimaginable in our Society, thus laying the foundation for 419ers in Government we have today.

As long as a prominent thief is from a particular tribe his sins are forgiven and forgotten by his kinsmen. Am I correct?

He was often called was a cheerful thief, a British diplomat once commented.

Frankly, I do not know what saved Nnamdi Azikiwe's life. Maybe the coupist did not see him as a threat. I wonder why they didn't deal with that Igbo traitor.

But I don't know what good can come from that discussion, because many Igbos on NL still love Nnamdi Azikiwe. I share the views of my grandfather concerning that man.

It is one thing we can all agree on except for the wayward Northerner who is on this thread, watch your back when Northerners are around. They may have one hand open, while the other hand behind them has a knife. Poor Ironsi's situation shows us the perils of dealing with the North.

Jen33:
EzeUche, do you know I once visited the British museum in Covent Garden, London, and once in, I headed straight to their display of the Benin Bronzes. I met a Nigerian who worked in the underground vaults of the museum, and he said there were 20 times more Benin treasure locked away in the vaults than were on display there. Some had never been displayed since they were looted from Benin by the British in 1897.

The British museum is an amazing place. If you want to see the extent of British plunder in all corners of the world, from China to Africa, and from India to South America, you need look no further than the British museum in Covent Garden.

This is exactly my point! No one wants to mention how the British plundered the globe and took advantage of people who did not have superior weapons. Let us not mention the ill gotten wealth that they got from colonialism. And even after colonialism, they forced their colonies to pay them back the expenses they accrued during colonialism.

It is a vicious cycle.

Africans need to wake and search for the truth. If you go to Benin City, most of the Benin Bronzes that you see in that city is only replicas while the real ones are in London. That doesn't even make any sense.

The West in general has benefited from the plunder of Africa, Asia and the Americas.

SapeleGuy:
Ezekolo, Nkita ara dika gi
Okotie - Eboh,  has been the most successful and brilliant finance minister this devils paradise called Nigeria has produced to date, after him comes Awolowo.  
Some people were keen to move him not because they had anything better to offer but because they felt a Mid-Westerner should not be that powerful. Go and do some research instead of displaying your usual impotent and feral rabble rousing.

Remember it was off of Nnamdi Azikiwe's coattails, that Okotie-Eboh was given that position.

Do not bite the hand that feeds you!

Many people thought Okotie-Eboh was corrupt. And he was a very corrupt official. Do not get upset, because that was the truth. Everyone noticed this, even the British who commented on Okotie-Eboh's extravagance.

Obiagu1:
He had many options.
1. Take temporary control of the government and allow the civilians to settle their dispute of who becomes the new PM.
2. Take control of the government and call for fresh elections.
3. Leave Nigeria as you met it, since he was a career soldier. What guided him in turning Nigeria to unitary government? On whose authority?

He was a soldier first and foremost. It quite understandable that he would want a unitary system, because that is how the military is set up. A clear chain of command. That is why, if I was in that same position, I would probably do the same thing, because I would be coming from a soldier's POV.

I will say that Ironsi like many Igbos among us was very naive. He should have surrounded himself with Igbo and our Eastern brothers. They would have protected him with their lives.

The man believe in camaraderie amongst soldiers. That would be downfall. I just feel so sad for him. Even after watching the videos. A man who spent his life as a soldier, protecting people.

Ironsi the sacrificial lamb.

OAM4J:
Reread the bold and tell me you still believe that makes sense. How is it possible to cage a part of the army base on their region? And you think that wouldn't have brought the 2nd coup/civil war earlier than Jul 66?

Let me clarify and say Northern officers. Not Northern soldiers. They were only following the directions of their superiors.

The fact remains, that no riots occurred during this coup. People actually went on living and hoping for the best. My uncle who was living in Ibadan at the time, was telling us about the jubilant crowds as they were hearing about the first coup. That they were happy to see many of those corrupt politicians killed and even happier that Awolowo was freed.