₦airaland Forum

FatherOfJesus:
You mean your own future as a person or the future of the country? If the latter is the case then it's true but this country? No.

This country i finished, if we should tell ourselves the gospel truth, the country is going no where. It's a zoo and that's why you re seeing everything happening this way and almost everyone wants to leave this zoo.

Regardless of if everyone leave the country which I doubt. I don't know where I will call home if not my place.

Nigeria is a very diverse country and forget about all these online rantings and rhetorics. Some of the tribes we may dislike are still filled with some of the best people you can think off.

If Buhari fails, if Tinubu may fail also it does not mean that the next person will fail also.

A lot of us except lately have not really been following up with election patterns in this country and it's good we are having a national awakening.

It will be good!

No, disregard that. Stretch your head and look at the future, it is far brighter and better than where we are now.

Trust me, no matter how bad APC will not be there forever. Every bad event is a dark passage to something better.

Do not be dismayed!

PDP better take it!

Hmmm! Some women seem like their body system has sperm preservative.

Before you know it it's a goal. If I leave her she would have filled the whole house with kids.

Early marriage is good, it saves you from unwanted restlessness. Best way is date a guy who way more matured than you should anything happens his age will force him to take responsibility.

May not be connected to the topic but I know why.

rollywise:
Just same way you've been cheated into poverty and penury

Me, poverty and penury?
Say what you like.

No I don't think so!
Tinubu is a strategist and Obidient are the easiest to infiltrate. Just a little icing they will be fine.

elated177:
Felimax, why was Moses instructed by our Father in heaven to build the Ark?

That God's presence be felt and be with His people!

safarifarms:
Well, I've decided to leave you guys with your practices and traditions. I'll never understand how very clear instructions without counter instructions should not be obeyed. As per the unclean animals that Peter was later told to kill and eat, its still part of the typology that ceases to have relevance since Christ came. The counter instruction to Peter clearly indicates the end to that.

But the making of images, just like instructions not to commit adultery has no counter instruction.

I'm very deliberate in avoiding to talk about the some of the other things you've added to the discussion (like the Veronica cloth etc), those are beyond the scope of the thread.

God bless you

Bless you too!

elated177:
Going by your assertions below, I will be drawing some questions from them.




Here is the first one:

1. What did the Ark of the Covenant represent?

The Spiritual presence of God as a guide and Protector. God gave them rules they must adhere to.

At least they will inform you before hand.

tiswell:
Catholics and their religious dogma.

Mary is not purer than my own mother,besides,why is Joseph,the father of Jesus not immortalized,even when he endured the fact that his wife got impregnated through mysterious means?

Are you a Christian?

elated177:
Here is the thread, Felimax.

Ok, so what about what I said that led us here?

tiswell:
The regular bible you use is not complete.

Look out for the book of scofield

Immortals don't reproduce offspring the issue of sex may not be necessary.

I don't think in afterlife people will be segmented or identified by their sex organ.

safarifarms:
Yes I'm not catholic and cannot understand why Catholics ignore clear instruction on what not to do and use an instruction of what to do temporarily as the bases for doing so.

If you were making bronze serpents or building arks I think I would have understood you better and at least it shows you guys have interest in following biblical instructions and it would be easy to show you why you shouldn't build it anymore.

Exodus 20:
4 “You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me,

Meanwhile while you try to focus on the worship part of the instructions and claim you don't worship, there's more to it;

1. You shall not make for yourself an image in the form.
2. You shall not bow down to them.

You've carefully avoided talking about those ones.

I'm not expecting you guys to change a tradition that you've followed for decades if not centuries. Besides you are not in position to change it as you are not the Pope.

The question was why? Just like the op, I was just curious and wish to hear how your leaders defend that to you guys. But all you have to say is you guys understand the bible better and quote a portion that said they should build something else which you are not building.

It was nice chatting with you. At least you were more civilized than the other guy.

Have a nice day.

God bless you.

Calm down bro!
Nobody is a Catholic because of the Pope or Religious of the Church. It's quite funny sha.

Listen, there is hardly any sincere Catholic who has not gone through a tough faith crisis. Even priest, bishops and other high ranking officers of the church must at a point in their religious life go through a thorough faith crisis and that is what makes it so unique. At times some of your questions even the Pope may not be able to convince you or explain to you beyond reasonable doubt and in most cases that is where you see the Spirit at work in His Divine upliftment and enlightenment.

The answers will be fallen into your head and you will know you don't deserve it but it will be happening. For me it is when the Eucharist is exposed or raised, sometimes it will almost seem as if there are people in my mind. It was then I discovered that the Spirit of Understanding is another gift of His own. It's a very powerful experience.

Catholics have very potent admiration, humility and submissiveness towards anything that has to do with God. No priest, will ever tell you to bow to any statue or worship them but yes you see Catholics doing this often, it has nothing to do with bowing down to an image or worshipping. It is in veneration of the person that icon represent.

You won't understand how deep this is and that is why I drew your attention to the Bronze Serpent and Statues of the Cherubims. By that I was trying to make you understand that the people of God saw God's mercy and power through those items. Those things are not God but His healing and power was greatly manifested throughout those images and it was nothing to Him.

If the image of Jesus is not important He will not leave His facial impression on the cloth Veronica used in wiping His face. Think about that for a while. Do you know the number of healings and miracles the church has experienced and still experiencing with that veil? Till date it is still there with the church.

Take this home and sorry for my long write up. The presence of Christ in the form of Bread and Wine is equally an image and it is the focal point of everything Catholic. We believe it is nothing but the real Flesh and Blood of Jesus Christ and each time we approach Him in that sacrament our lives has always be renewed.
That on its own to a man who is far from Divine understanding is idolatry.

Conclusively, if it is instituted and instructed by God Himself it will never be a sin. God gave a list of animals the Jews must not eat and still came back and instructed Peter to eat them all.

Try and understand! May you be filled with the Divine Spirit of Understanding.

elated177:
Felimax, permit me to take you up on some of your assertions here. Am I permitted? In order not to derail this 'wonderful' thread, I will lift your assertions from here and paste them on a new thread for some analyses. Do you agree?

So long they are not distorted or taken out of context. Granted!

safarifarms:
You keep talking as though you are the only one that understands yet you consider what is clearly explained in the new testament as making excuses for God.

The bible explains in the new testament that Moses was made to design copies/replicas of things in heaven to symbolize what was to come (Jesus Christ). Its not my statement or are you saying the bible in the new testament is making excuses for God?

Hebrews 8:5
New International Version
5 They serve at a sanctuary that is a copy and shadow of what is in heaven. This is why Moses was warned when he was about to build the tabernacle: “See to it that you make everything according to the pattern shown you on the mountain.”

Hebrews 10:1
New International Version
10 The law is only a shadow of the good things that are coming—not the realities themselves. For this reason it can never, by the same sacrifices repeated endlessly year after year, make perfect those who draw near to worship.

Then Jesus came and said that the bronze serpent represented his death on the cross.

John 3:14
King James Version
14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

God gave the instruction against idol worship and also gave instructions for replicas of things that are to come that were to be built and it was temporary for the purpose of teaching about Jesus that was to come. After Jesus came all those replicas are no longer needed because the main deal they represented had finally arrived. Buy you choose to use the replicas that were temporary and had expired as an excuse to flout God's instruction claiming you guys are the only ones that understand the Bible?

Very interesting.

I don't complicate things please.
You just agreed and equally quoted that God instructed the making of images for worship. So what is the argument all about? Did you see any Bronze Serpent people look up to in the Catholic Church?

The church fathers and early Christians ability to communicate was through images and Icons. When you see a cross as a believer you know what it means.

Some of the Apostles are represented in different animals or iconic patterns and they were able to pass on to us the veracity and authentication of what we have in the scriptures.

There is no Catholic Church that does libation to any statue or images. The only image we worship in the Catholic Church is the true FLESH and BLOOD of Jesus Christ under the appearance of Bread and Wine.
We worship the Word of God contained in the Bible hence before a priest reads from it both himself and the congregation will do the incensing together. We worship God alone and venerate other holy figures. This is from a Catholic you have to take it from me.

Because Christ is there in the blessed sacrament of the altar we Catholics adore, worship, venerate the presence of our founder and Triune God in His presence.

If you are not a Catholic please don't bother yourself with what you cannot change. The kind of truth we possess as Catholics no one else does.

Hahahahahaha....

Dollarseeker:
u don't get it. This priest said people falling down while being prayed for is totally scam. He even said why does the white in USA, Canada etc not fall too while being prayed for. Go to USA and see people fall down, even in one of Mbakas video, Mbaka narrated how the people he prayed for in USA fell down. I even sent the fake priest that video, he couldn't say anything

So how do you confirm it was the Holy Spirit that was blowing people out of proportion?
Black man!

I was a videographer of at least three Pentecostal churches and all through my career not once have I seen the Camera crew blown out of proportion. I am a very sound Catholic and though I worked in those Pentecostal churches I have never for once felt the kind of gentle Spirit found in the Catholic Church.

I still work with some of those churches but the truth is a lot of people don't know the secret behind those dramas you see.
I have worked with Pastors, Apostles and Prophetess and one beautiful thing about it all is that the Spirit of God is very unique.

Before my wedding they gave several reasons why my wedding should go their way which I bluntly refused because what my Spirit told me from beginning was totally different as a result of that they refuse to help me.

I have spent almost all I had and could not afford to buy more then in my dream the message came that I should not worry that He will feed my guest with the little I had and there will be leftovers. Instantly, I woke up I told Him I believe He has spoken to me and I resigned all to Him. Omo on the day of wedding we were looking for people to eat and still took a cooler of rice back home. All my pastor friends including my uncle who is a G.O did not attend. God blessed me beyond my expectations.

I still went back with my spouse to appreciate them anyway.

Holy Spirit will be throwing people up and down? That is evil spirit not Holy Spirit.

They keep deceiving themselves and kept lying in the name of Holy Spirit.

Our Sister company secretary came one morning and gave the security man money only for us to see the whole thing on Facebook that she heard it loud and clear that the Holy Spirit told her to bless the security man. She recorded the whole process even as the elderly man was praying for her, uploaded to Facebook without his knowledge. I was really angry and thought she may have given him a huge some of money.

I confronted him why he will allow such video be made of him and uploaded to Facebook? The poor man said he was never aware she was videoing him. That it was #1000 she gave him on top Holy Spirit head o!

If you see this Lady Mary nor holy reach her. That is the nonsense people wants to believe and it's so annoying.

The Priest makes a lot of sense.

safarifarms:
Are those statues your ark?

Meanwhile the ark was a typology in the time past for illustration purpose and creating one today will be same as idol worship.

Hebrews 9:8-9
New International Version
8 The Holy Spirit was showing by this that the way into the Most Holy Place had not yet been disclosed as long as the first tabernacle was still functioning. 9 This is an illustration for the present time, indicating that the gifts and sacrifices being offered were not able to clear the conscience of the worshiper.

Hebrews 9:8-10
The Message
6-10 After this was set up, the priests went about their duties in the large tent. Only the high priest entered the smaller, inside tent, and then only once a year, offering a blood sacrifice for his own sins and the people’s accumulated sins. This was the Holy Spirit’s way of showing with a visible parable that as long as the large tent stands, people can’t just walk in on God. Under this system, the gifts and sacrifices can’t really get to the heart of the matter, can’t assuage the conscience of the people, but are limited to matters of ritual and behavior. It’s essentially a temporary arrangement until a complete overhaul could be made.

You see the ark that you make reference to as instructed by God was an illustrative item just like the tabernacle which does not apply anymore today because the real deal they represented had been fulfilled in the coming of Jesus Christ.

So your use of that to justify statues does not add up

It is not about making excuse for God. Jesus came and practiced as a Jew.

The Ark of the Covenant is not the only statue making instruction found in the Bible.
What about the Bronze Serpent?
What you don't understand

It's not about earning.
Equalize the Dollar to Naira and see the exodus movement of Nigerians in Diaspora back home.

Nobody in this country will pay the least civil servant one million naira monthly.

tctrills:
The bible answers most questions about good and bad but there seems to be some areas where the bible is silent or not perfectly clear.
Here are a few examples.
1. Slavery
2. War crimes
3. Gambling
4. Consumption of intoxicants
You can add to the list.
What do you think.

Go and study your Bible very well. Love is the summary of it all.

Where love is abundant those vices you mentioned will expire.

Michael547:
Are we not suppose to pray through the name of Jesus?
Where does the Bible instructs Christians to pray through saints?

Go and read your Bible very well and get tired of John 3:16.
A simple goggle search will do justice to your troubled heart.

safarifarms:
Exodus 20:
4 “You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me,

As per your statement, Because what Catholics understand in the Canons no one else does.

Please what do the Catholics understand of this statement?

Exodus 25:10-22
Instructions For Making The Ark Of The Covenant

10 “They shall construct an ark of acacia wood two and a half cubits long, and one and a half cubits wide, and one and a half cubits high. 11 You shall overlay it with pure gold, inside and out you shall overlay it, and you shall make a gold molding around it. 12 You shall cast four gold rings for it and fasten them on its four feet, and two rings shall be on one side of it and two rings on the other side of it. 13 You shall make poles of acacia wood and overlay them with gold. 14 You shall put the poles into the rings on the sides of the ark, to carry the ark with them. 15 The poles shall remain in the rings of the ark; they shall not be removed from it. 16 You shall put into the ark the testimony which I shall give you. 17 “You shall make a mercy seat of pure gold, two and a half cubits long and one and a half cubits wide. 18 You shall make two cherubim of gold, make them of hammered work at the two ends of the mercy seat. 19 Make one cherub at one end and one cherub at the other end; you shall make the cherubim of one piece with the mercy seat at its two ends. 20 The cherubim shall have their wings spread upward, covering the mercy seat with their wings and facing one another; the faces of the cherubim are to be turned toward the mercy seat. 21 You shall put the mercy seat on top of the ark, and in the ark you shall put the testimony which I will give to you. 22 There I will meet with you; and from above the mercy seat, from between the two cherubim which are upon the ark of the testimony, I will speak to you about all that I will give you in commandment for the sons of Israel.

When you read the Bible out of context you end up having complicating views and understanding.

Listen again, in the Catholic Church is 26 different churches all universally united under one head The Pope!

The church has gone past this stage thousands of years ago and thousands of years to come the Church will still triumph over heresy.

Peace!

helinues:
So in short,those who inserted do not bow to any statue in the bible was just so drunk.

Learnt new things today

Peace!

helinues:
Those your questions are irrelevant to me as you are yet to respond to the intial question on this thread. Why are Catholics bowing to statue when it was written inside the bible not to to bow to anything, not even statue

Because what Catholics understand in the Canons no one else does.

Because the Catholic Church remains the Pillar and Foundation of Truth.

Think about this for a minute.
The millions of Catholic elites, the early Christians and fathers of the church, the Apostles cannot all be wrong.

There is no where in the world where Catholics do libations or ritual to any image.

There is no image within the church that has no human identify and that is why we don't worship and can never worship them. We venerate the holy persons that those pictures, or icons or statues represent. We know them and we call their names.

The Catholic Church is not any church anybody can wake up tomorrow and claim the Spirit said. Every teaching of the Church has gone through rigorous process before it is considered a DOGMA and that is why you see that the church is universally united.

Within the Catholic Church are 26 different churches all united under one head the POPE so what you think may not be too necessary.

If we want to go to a church where there are no images we know where to go but we choose the part of the Apostles and this part we shall follow till His kingdom come. No Jupiter born of Saturn can change it because "The Gates of Hades Shall NEVER PREVAIL against the Church founded by CHRIST HIMSELF.

Shalom!

helinues:
Who injected do not bow to any statue in the bible?

Try answer my questions so we take it from there.
The same same person that said Do not bow down to images or worship them also instructed the creation of the Ark of the Covenant where His presence dwells and NOTHING unholy should get close to it.

Is it not the same person that instructed the making of the BRONZE SERPENT for healing?

God does not contradict Himself our level of reasoning is just so poor. Apart from the account of the Ark of the Covenant have you heard anywhere in the Bible of the Cherubims and Seraphims?

helinues:
This is out of curiosity, not a shade on any church denomination, why are Catholics still bowing to Mary statue when it's written in the bible not to bow to any statue.

The Catholics in the house should clear our ignorant about that.

What are the items in the Ark of the Covenant?
Who instructed that images be calved?
Was the Ark of the Covenant an Item for worship?
Do Jews see God through the Ark of the Covenant?
Why so?

seiyefajohn:
Hi andbthank you for your contribution. But when i was talking about rude, i did not just look at how de curse or abuse.....it is the general rudeness and stubbornness.

Stubbornness! Capital YES!

Very good move!
The birth of something great to come.

When hungry don blast all of us our brain go format by force.

Delta Rude! What will you say of Edo?
Both old and young Ogun is inside their mouth.

It is in Delta you find the most LIVELY and HOSPITABLE people.
No where else!

The real Ajebos are made in Lagos.