₦airaland Forum

Any army that declares to challenge us must be prepared to face robots or our remote controlled weapons before they face the actual combatants. Our military technology has advanced so fast.

Augustine Again: civilians have turned into rebel warlords and defeated regular military generals in combat. war history proves it.

nothing so far has shown that you know war generally more than i do. except the specific military duty you are trained for, but come to war in general terms, Augustine is hard to defeat.

all your south african soldiers here were doing military rankings based on Denel website weapons photograghs versus other african countries.

i was the only one that posted 7 factors required to rank countries' military power on page 23 of this thread and that was 5 months ago. you just posted yours on page 263 this weeek, did i copy you ? there is nothing special in your parameters/factors compared to my own...and i am a civilian, you are a soldier with military Bachelors degree.

whats the difference ? i invite all nairalanders on this forum to judge both of us below in a honest way.

@Fighter Pilot in red colour
@Agaugust in blue colour

Any country's military power is judged in accordance with the following factors;

1. Firepower which is the total number of one country hardware inventory;
2. Modernisation of their weapons, eg, Roland SAM is too old to be used to stop the offensive of the. new generations fighter jets;

(1) current equipment in service and combat ready or in safe storage (ukraine's air force 100 jets active, 200 jets in safe storage)


3. Military science and technology of one country;
4. Economic power of one country, that is, any country must have the financial muscle and means to procure arms to avoid fighting with clubs and knobkerries;

(7) ability of the military to transform rapidly and increase its battle field potency within the first few weeks of war (ukraine's weapons in safe storage)


5. The military strength of one country depending on the level of literacy of their militants, eg, half a million of illiterate soldiers can easily be defeated by just only 80 000 educated soldiers. Military research have shown that educated soldiers execute commands better than soldiers with limited cognitive abilities; and
6. Credibility of military academy of one country. In the case of SA and US are run by reputable civilian universities as faculty of military sciences.


(2) number of combat men in service and trained reservists (north korean army deterrent to the west based on 1950 koeran war of numbers)
(3) ability of the men to use their equipment to maximum battlefield effectiveness (ethiopian air force dog fight pilots)

(4) calibre and quality of officers from lieutenant colonel to 5 star general (israeli army officers in war tactics)
(5) previous and recent combat exploits of the forces (israeli military history 1967 to 2013)

(6) historic fighting morale of the soldiers (gurkha army originating of asian nepal nation now in the british army)

these critical factors of power include but not limited to the above.

some other two factors commonly use by the untrained, are not good enough to judge miltary power, they are :

military budget:
its not an easy factor to use because of fraud by corrupt governments like angola and zimbabwe who steal billions of dollars in the name of defense spending, it is common in africa. also some spend more of recurrent expenditure and not capital expenditure due to soldiers huge salaries or consumption of battlefield ordinance and munitions during an ongoing war like sudan.

military weapons manufactured domestically:
its not also a good factor to judge. why south africa manufactures the rooivak helicopter gunship but has just less than 15 of the aircraft in its own air force, compare that to egypt which does not manufacture helicopter gunships but has 150 aircraft in its air force (including american made apache helicopters) ten times that of south africa which boasts of manufacturing. so in an helicopter combat who will win ? egypt or south africa ? what you produce does not fight a war for you unless you buy it and equip your military with it.


dear readers, we invite you to judge the two analyses above and make a honest comment. thank you.

@Agaugust

You are going far, example is there in Nigeria where coups proved successful.

Augustine Again: nigerian BSc in accounting, american MBA. countries differ in categorization of degrees awarded.
@Agaugust

Well, it's just that is very unusual that you will find Accounting categorised under the faculty of Natural Sciences (BSc) rather on faculty of economic sciences (Bcom). In SA its either BAcc, Bcompt for SA(CA) or BCom Accounting for ordinary Accountants.

Paramount Group lands contract in Argentinian defence force;

http://m.engineeringnews.co.za/article/south-african-defence-company-signs-partnership-agreement-to-target-south-america-2013-02-22

Paramount Group exhibits the latest defence technology.

http://www.asdnews.com/image-47667/Paramount_Group_to_exhibit_latest_defence_technology_at_IDEX_2013.htm

Black South-African owned Paramount Group unveils the new generation military vehicles;

http://www.army-technology.com/contractors/armoured/paramount-group

Image of a new upgraded and modified Rooivalk. It is now even more powerful than it was before.

http://m.engineeringnews.co.za/article/saaf-takes-delivery-of-final-rooivalk-helicopter-2013-03-14

Last year DENEL signed the largest export contract with Malaysia;

http://www.defaiya.com/defaiyaonline/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=3464%3Adenel-signs-largest-export-contract-with-malaysia&catid=52%3Aasia&Itemid=2&lang=en

DENEL secure a multi-million contract in Europe.

http://www.btimes.co.za/98/1122/comp/comp.htm

agaugust: .

[size=14pt] DENEL south africa in financial mess [/size]

DENEL defense company of South Africa is in financial mess and heavy debt...bad business. The whole nation if South Africa too is also in heavy financial debt to foreign lenders. You south africans forgot to mention these DENEL facts, so I helped you to post it. Thanks my soweto brothers.

It is in financial mess and yet it does not default in its responsibilities of exploring military technology. By the way our government bailed it out. That information has expired.

Augustine Again: you run away from me a civilian @Agaugust since you came to this forum, no technical stuff from you air force officer. we have NOT seen any of your so called expertise displayed here, i think you are a non-combatant soldier...and very afraid.

hi everyone, i posted some nigeria navy new weapons photos with heavy size kilobytes and i got banned for posting heavy images above kilobyte size limit on nairaland. i will try again today or monday.

Mr America I would have shown you what do I know about military, but since you have shown your ignorance just from the onset, I then decided not even to engage you any further because I have already seen that there is nothing to gain from you. Any force is not judged form its history. There's always first time for everything, first time for defeat and first time for victory.

Any force that would be intimidated by Nigeria based on the ideology that they have never lost a war (source needed), is surely supposed to be ashamed of themselves. Our force cannot be reduced to the back seats like biafran combatants. Any country that is involved in civil wars is said to defeat one of their own. It is like a fight between two brothers at home who later go to the street and claim that they can defeat everybody.

I am not going to waste my energy discussing military and war history with amateurs ever again.

agaugust: i have BSc Accounting plus an MBA degree like American great General Collin Powell of gulf war fame and one of the best military generals in the whole world. i have formidable company/industry certifications in military affairs where i work. America does not focus on one single qualification, we mix different certificates together for better human capital quality.

weapons technology is a science, but war fighting is an art. best military men are born, not made.

i will defeat you both here and in real war with that your BMil degree, i have beaten american soldiers in war simulation in my office. Augustine will teach you a big lesson.

did you go to page 236 of this thread ? like its posted on that page have you ever in your military career seen a civilian that simulated that naval blockade defense and counter attack using an army to destroy a powerful navy ? it cannot be copied and pasted from internet. that is a coastal defence plan of a whole country (usually planed by admirals, generals, and air marshals ) with 850km coastline to defend with no warship and no combat aircraft support.

You are disappointing me. You are letting the standard of America go down. People with MBA do not reason the way you do. BTW why did they categorise your Accounting under Bachelor of Sciences and not Bachelor of commerce/Accountancy?

There is nothing that you will gain from discussing military issues with Agaugust. His is only to complaint non-stop that SA made weapons are over-rated and to him is as if weapons are only better when developed by the imperialist. America has corrupted his mental system and thus made him to be unable to think out of the box. SA does not wait for the likes of America to feed them with their left-overs and scraps. We stand resolute by putting to trial the skills of our young engineers. He is just like his American colleagues who always fail to recognise that Africa is growing and atleast at last can bring something on the table for the whole world to see.

agaugust: .

[img]http://www.juventudrebelde.cu/UserFiles/Image/2008/junio/22/graduacion-militar-g.jpg[/img]




i just set a trap for you and fell down flat into it. i have a lot of information about Cuban military and its war history. Cuba is just our next door neighbour here and our CIA and military watch them everyday. i have neutral sources that proves Cuba had zero combat experience when they fought South Africa, and almost defeated you.

South Africa had overt and covert suppourt from USA, France, Israel. it was a balanced war and south africa almost got defeated before your government quickly begged for peace talks and settlement.

south africa has NEVER won any war in its life-time. all you have is nice photographs of weapons. Ethiopia has a far better war history than south africa the over-rated weapons producer.

I told you that history does not win you wars. It is apparent that your knowledge concerning military history is very limited due to your hatred to SA military success. In that case you will need to visit the British military archives in London and look as to how many soldiers they lost in a disappointing defeat against the small number of SA Boers in the first SA war. Moreover, ask the Germans and Italians. Cubans also lost a vast number of soldiers as compared to SA in the bush war.

Mr America you need to read your history without any bias. By the way, what military qualifications do you have? I am boasting a BMil degree and I want to hear what do you have.

souldust: Murtala took mantle of leadership and was assasinated only six months later. In that six months, he took the most radical step against your apartheid including standing up to the UK and margret thatcher. Our foreinng policy was more of activism at that time.

Unfortunately, its not good to speak about ghosts when matters are like this. Let us bury that subject because it couldn't materialise and put on top a tombstone to settle it down.

souldust: @fighter you think your soweto republic is all that exists withing this vast continent. It is OK. You are not the first man from SA who is so ignorant of other parts of the continent. We have seen many before including all the ones who came here before you.

Message: come out of your country. Try to know more about other people otherwise, remain incomplete just like your knowledge of other people!

What have I done my brother, to accuse me that bad. I don't even reside in Soweto, my home is in sunnyside, Pretoria. What Soweto has to do with this now?

souldust: @fighter, if not becos Gen. Murtala Muhammed was assasinated, he would have built a military that would attack your apartheid bas.tar.ds. Under him, we operated the most radical effective foreign policy. His days are regarded by historians as the golden age of Nigeria's foreeign policy.

If not becos of Okah's coup, Babangida wouldnt have crippled the military and the defence industry by underfunding them and executing some of our finest soldiers. The likes of Vasta and Ben Ekele, the famous fighter pilot, comes to mind.

If not becos Nigeria was under sanctions in the days of Abacha

if not becos obasanjo had to keep the size and expertness of the military down so as to make the military stay in their baracks for good after a long history of interference in the political affairs of Nigeria. Do you think SA would have all the mouth you guys have now? I dont blame you guys like we say in naija: na condition make crayfish bend. Hope you understand that pidgin.

What an excuse? Murtala was still alive and kicking during the dark days of apartheid. If the superpowers couldn't do anything then who is Nigeria that could have done something.

Just looks at Agaugust, someone who claims to be an expect in military, even failed to recognise Cuba as a fully experienced country in combat. He surely needs to visit the history about the Cuban Revolution. Besides, Cuba never fought alone, it fought in coalition of forces against SA, and compromised, Cuba, Angola, ANC, Russia, MPLA. That's why I hate arguing with Nigerians, because when you beat them they will start to beat about the bush and derail the treat. Just look at him, each country has its own dirty laundry and so I don't want us to go there. I just do not have the enegy for that. If you have nothing to discuss, you would rather shut up.

Now because of the ANC's stance of condemning the use of full military might by one country to another and that the vicious dog is now in the cage. People should however stop to think that SA is just a walk on the park. I wish if it was during the apartheid year, the SELEKA rebels would have been a history as we speak, we would have gone to CAR with our full force. Thus, the problem is that Mrs ANC with her policies of becoming exemplary to the world discourages us to take that step. It is reasonable though because at the first place she should have never sent our troops there without a heavy artillery. It was, however, later discovered that the ambush was carried out by Bozize's own mutinous soldiers who turned against their trainers and not by child soldiers as it was initially envisaged.

SA unveils the new Mamba APC Mk5;

http://www.armyrecognition.com/images/stories/africa/south_africa/wheeled_vehicle/mamba_mk5/Mamba_Mk5_APC_4x4_wheeled_armoured_personnel_carrier_Osprea_Logistics_South_Africa_defence_industry_640_001.jpg

The SA Navy wants to build its own war ships and the entire continent. Hope it becomes success

http://www.citypress.co.za/news/sa-navy-wants-to-build-its-own-ships-20120317/

The SA Navy unveils the new periscope simulator system.

http://www.bdlive.co.za/national/2013/04/04/sa-navy-launches-new-periscope-simulator-system

This also was one dangerous weapon unveiled in SA, rogue CIWS.

http://itweb.co.za/mobilesite/defenceweb/home/item_id-1412/

The SA Navy unveils new submarine test bed.

http://itweb.co.za/mobilesite/defenceweb/home/item_id-30045/

In 2011, SA unveiled their first African-Made military plane. This machine is very fast, bullet proofed and armed with its own machine guns. Moreover, this tech is said that can even freez on the air and fire more than 5000 rounds a minute( this still need to be proved). It is good for reconnaissance and the SAAF has already shown interest to procure 60 of these light planes. The unit of these light aircraft is said to cost $10 million.

http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/sep/27/first-african-military-plane-introduced/

LT SHANGY: Yes, Denel is a defence company in south africa, internationally recognised with good products. However, Denel is not a wholly SA defence company, the SA buys Denels products, but it comes with free units, lets say 2% of denel products goes 2 d SANDF free.

Denel is 100% state owned company, they only sold some of their divisions to foreigners, such as their bomb manufacturing arm. However, not 100% of such divisions.

The research revealed that Algeria, Morocco and South Africa were by far the largest Arms importer in Africa, from 2008-2012.

http://www.worldtribune.com/2013/03/20/report-algeria-morocco-are-top-africa-arms-importers/

The recent South African accusations through MTN by the US for helping IRAN on its nuclear project.

http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/regions/africa/south-africa/120409/south-africa-aiding-the-iranian-military

The Denel Dynamics unveils their new missile technology;

http://m.engineeringnews.co.za/article/sa-missile-company-reports-new-technology-development-project-and-successful-weapon-test-2013-04-19

http://itweb.co.za/mobilesite/defenceweb/home/item_id-30178/

The Denel Mecham unveils the new Casspir New Generation, Caspir NG 2000.

http://m.engineeringnews.co.za/article/sa-company-unveils-new-mine-protected-products-2013-05-03

Our very own DENEL helps UAE to develop drones, but am not proud of it.

http://www.bdlive.co.za/national/2013/04/12/denel-helping-saudi-arabia-develop-drones