₦airaland Forum

Myer:
What does it mean to worship God in Spirit?

How do you know you're worshipping in Spirit?

A great question. I will tell you the true anwer though you may never have heard such.

Consider the setting in which the Lord spoke of worship, which teaching of worship perfectly synchronized with this setting.
The setting was a woman fetching from a well to quench her thirst which He likens to her search for pleasure from man to man. He then goes on to show her a never ending supply of water which automatically replenishes itself in place of the option of her continuous labour of fetching from a well.

Spiritually, all our longings and desires are tied to our spiritual thirst as humans. Humans are permanently trying to satisfy their thirst hence jumping from one created thing to another, from quest of science to religious activities to accomplishments to pleasures etc. but the book of Ecclesiastes shows the emptiness of these in satisfying the human thirst.

Worship in spirit/Truth described by the Lord in Jn4:23 is the point where we finally let the Creator take His place of satisfying this thirst as the Only who can without any help from things. This is the true reverence/honour/worship of God. This can only be when we realize none of the created things truly satisfies but only the Creator Himself.

How hardly believers ever do. Alas, they do not know the Creator has called them to this sole purpose and that He alone can satisfy beyond any created thing because they have yet to try Him and do not know the Way of Life/Truth. They do not know that this is in fact the sole purpose of their existence, to enjoy pleasure in God.
Every believer who is yet to drink from God's ever flowing fountain is yet to worship God. Only so few believers will find this worship and this is the worship in Truth and Spirit the Father desires.(Jn4:23-24). These are the "chosen" ones i.e. the few(Mt7:14, Ps16:11) who choose to follow the narrow path that leads to eternal life/fountain of water of life.(Rev21:6 & 22:7)

How do you know the point at which you worship God?
Not in going to church, mere praying, bible study or religion. All these can be done in vain. You only know you worship when inside of you, you experience this pleasure, fullness of joy and satisfaction flowing PERMANENTLY inside you without any act of yours or input from a created thing because the fountain replenishes itself and you need no labour of drawing. Here, you are ever so full of the water of life and pleasure/joy from the Creator within that you need no created alternative.

Mftivi:
I dont like when we deceive ourselves, if these people who literally lived with Jesus could misstep you think it can be any different with us? Dont twist it, that is the height of Grace and it is what it is. God is not a moralist, he is a just God! I didnt create myself this way, one man's sin made us all sinners without us all sinning so it is just that one man's obedience should make us all righteous without doing anything. That is the gospel in a nutshell and it is what it is, God started teaching me these things from my teenage age because I hated hypocrisy. They told us when you get born again you will do good things but I was still falling into sin so I would believe something was wrong with me, meanwhile these people teaching us these things will always fall into sin and will come out to pretend before people. Until I understood the Gospel of grace, none of these things made any sense to me because I refused to decieve and lie to myself. God seeing my heart let me through experiences that taught me what Grace is. I have gone to a church program after a hot romance with my GF and leaders were called out to pray for people but being honest to myself I dared not step out because of what I did but I had a very strong prompting that I couldn't resist so I did step out and immediately I got to the alter I started hearing the spirit direct me, I layed hands and teenagers fell under unction and got baptized with evidence of tongues, Something took over it wasn't me anymore. I snapped my fingers and young people were getting baptized, myself was baptized with evidence of speaking in tongues on one night I lied to my mum I was going to our church but I secretly was going to a Christ Embassy church program to go woo a girl liked, I went home speaking in tongues. GOD used dreams different preachers I stubmled upon and some times I even dreamt scriptures. Today no man can tell me otherwise.

I remember when I started too, I was asking God to give me power over the flesh. Instead of this, I received the anointing and it was so heavy, demons literally cast themselves out in my presence. They would scream and jump out of people when I've not even spoken. Even witches would literally run away while I'm still far from them. And the anointing flowed out like water from my body into others'.
This made no sense to me because I was yet to overcome the works of the flesh. Then I eventually learnt that God's anointing is not in anyway His approval of my character and had to press on beyond the anointing to learn the deeper dimension of activating the grace of God for conformity to His nature. Today, the flesh has bowed to His Kingly power. This is a more complete story of grace, my friend.

It's often that believers escaping one error fall into another. Obviously, God taught you, like me, that He begins His work in your life in spite of sin because it is a default condition. He brought you out of the legalistic, pharisaical error that you have to earn His grace in your life by performance. You can tell without anyone that the grace of God has come inside of you without your performance.
Now be careful not to fall into another error. Thinking that God's grace has come to condone the sin in your life. Hear Paul clearly

Tit 2:11-14 KJV 11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, 12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; 13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; 14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

Not in heaven but right here on earth, true grace that Paul preached teaches to live righteously and godly and that Christ gave Himself to you so you would be purified and redeemed from all sin. He didn't come to live in you so you can continue in sin. The reason many still manage sin is simply because they really don't believe Christ in them is more powerful than the sin in them. And for those that do, they don't know how to activate the power of Christ within them.
They therefore live on their own power and works, not on His grace, hence dominated by sin, wasting grace. Like the Corinthian church, they walk in the gifts of the spirit but are carnal and babies(1Cor3:1-3), they know indeed the mercy of God and forgiveness of sins but that is all they know their whole lives and never grow beyond babyhood (1Jn2:12-13) and are therefore useless to God's purposes on earth, though they go around, priding themselves as the most learned about grace while the flesh testifies otherwise.
For many, if they don't learn how to use the grace to overcome the flesh, they will end up on God's last strand of mercy like the brother in 1Cor5:1-5, 1Cor3:15)
If the story doesn't end in victory over sin, one remains a baby and knows only little of grace. The masters of grace are those who've learnt how to activate to see only the works of Christ in their lives and no more trace of their own fleshly works.
May we be helped to make this choice.

hoopernikao:
You must know how to read Paul and understand his usage of words.

But my issue here is that you are mixing lots of issues together. You may need to seperate discussion by issues. And that is the one reason I said discussing the explanation of faith to faith here will derail the purpose of tread. I don't want to.

I know opportunity will arise again for this, pending that, study more on your position on this and also try to put side by side how Paul used such type of phrase in 2 Corinthians 2:16

16 To the one we are the savour of death unto death; and to the other the savour of life unto life. And who is sufficient for these things?

It is Paul's play of words so you will need to put that in view for full discussion when the time comes.

Now on baptism.

You aren't stating clearly what you implies. If there are several levels or degrees as you said of baptism, state them clearly to me here. Who taught it, how is it being taught, who practiced it bearing in my the exact meaning of the word BAPTISM. This is the first thing you need to defend. So kindly state clearly when you refer to baptism the type you are refering to. Is it baptism of the holyghost? Water or what? State them clearly.

Wonderful. You've brought an important point. Please note that Paul's usage here of life and death points to degrees. The Lord Himself speaks of these (Jn10:10, Mt13:12). "Life" and the "superabundant life"


Back to baptism. Because you will teach believers, it's important to set these out straight. I've seen believers who were unwilling to receive the power/infilling of the Holy Spirit and explore the next provision of faith because they were convinced they already had the Holy Spirit in them, which they were right about. Teaching these will help such.

Now let's take a look into this.

Acts 2:38
Peter asks them to be baptized in the first degree of baptism, into the name of the Lord Jesus Christ first before the gift of the Holy Spirit upon him will be received.

What is the purpose of this baptism?
He says it's to the remission of sin.

This is the first degree of baptism every believer automatically receives at initial faith. Here, the Holy Spirit enters the spirit of the believer and makes him surrender to the Lordship (government) of Jesus Christ changing the heart orientation of the believer toward the Lord and effecting the absolution of sin. He is immersed into the government of light translated from the government of darkness and at any point in the believer's life, his spiritual environment is the light. This spiritual baptism is connoted by a physical water baptism and the physical baptism is ineffective unless the spiritual also takes place.(Acts22:16, Rom6:3)

The apostles received this from the Lord in Jn20:22 which was basically their first meeting after His resurrection and about 40+ days later received the next degree-the infilling of the Holy Spirit, having prayed for days.

It's unfortunate the KJV rendition and most others confer this remission of sins on the apostles (v23), whom we know never have such authority, when it was really directed at the Spirit Himself who was received into the apostles.

We also see that this is our first immersion by the Spirit by which also we lay claim to resurrection from the dead which is the first step of union with Divinity every believer obtains.
Notice also that it was after His resurrection but before His ascension which leads to the next degree.

Paul received this in His encounter with the Lord and after 3 days of praying, also received the next degree through Ananias ministration.

The Samaritans also received this first at their conversion to the Lord by the gospel and were water baptised as well before the apostles ministered the next degree days later(Acts8:16).

Please understand though that these first two degrees being distinct, often received distinctly and affording distinct privileges(the first to resurrection and the second to power through His ascension/exaltation over all things) can actually also be received near simultaneously.

In summary, this first degree affords us hope of resurrection(hence came upon the Lord's resurrection from the dead and before His ascension) and remission of sins (Rom6:1-4, 1Cor15:29), effected in our reception of the gospel and is connoted in a physical water baptism but it does not afford us the power to see the gifts of the Holy Ghost operating in our daily lives which come with the second degree (in His ascension), hence the reason many believers lack power for the gifts and do not even believe in tongues.

Ideally, we can easily see the degrees in the Lord Jesus's pattern. He needing no remission of sin, only partook in the physical aspect of water baptism to establish a pattern for us "fulfilling all righteousness" (Mt3:15).
We see that, having fulfilled that, He was as well baptized with the Spirit receiving the infilling and the power that goes with it.(Mt3:16, Lk4:1,14, Acts10:38).

I have explained the second degree in my first post and shown irrefutably that the baptism of the Spirit is the infilling.

Now here, I touch on the third degree. The Lord having fulfilled the first two degrees, speaks of another degree to follow(Lk12:50) and it is also specifically named in other places but I will not want to draw attention to it here because of the gravity of it and how it can be misconstrued. However I only point out that scripture for you to see the next degree in the Pattern. I will say you seek the Spirit which I know you have and He will reveal it to you.
There is even a degree after this like I said before.

Goshen360:
Lastly, if unintelligible tongues is not what we hear in Pentecostal churches today which I used to participate too, please you tell us what unintelligible tongues are because to the best of my knowledge that's what Pentecostals called speaking in tongues not the well understood and intelligible languages that was spoken in Acts 2.

This question shows you've either not carefully gone through my posts or you've done so with some opaque lens.
This will have to be my last on this cause I already have explained all this. I only came back here to see hooper's exposition that he was yet to get into.
As long as you try to relate Acts2 with 1Cor14. You'll always get into a big mess.
1Cor14 tongues always needs to work with translation of tongues as a pair.
Acts2 tongues needed no translation because it's different from 1Cor14.
Also, tongues of men will never need anyone to translate because it is spoken in the language of the target audience.
1Cor14 tongues is unintelligible to the human mind (both speaker and listener) hence would require translation. It is however intelligible to spirit beings(God and angels) beginning from your very own spirit.

So 1 cor 13v1 is hyperbolic saying, Even if, he could speak those languages of 2 cor.12v4, but still doesn't have love, he's nothing.

Nope. A dubious assumption that can never work in 1Cor13:1 simply because you need to add the word "even" to change his meaning. And clearly, 1Cor13 already had its context. I touched on this already.

Paul was picking some of the different gifts he had mentioned in 1Cor12, here in 1Cor13:1-3 and showing that without love, these gifts yield no gains.
First, in 1Cor13:1, he picks out "sorts of tongues"(1Cor12:10,28) by breaking it down into its two categories "... tongues of men and of angels...".
N.B:Mutt, you have deliberately added "all the tongues of men...or even of angels..." which makes it a loose generalisation and not a strict categorisation. No, it is strictly "Though I speak with tongues of men AND of angels..."(no "all the" and no "or even" ), making a STRICT categorisation of "sorts of tongues" into two rather than a generalisation.
In 1Cor13:2, he picks out prophecy(1Cor12:10), word of wisdom (mysteries), word of knowledge(1Cor12:8 ) and faith(1Cor12:9)
In 1Cor13:3, he picks out helps(1Cor12:28) and governments (1Cor12:28).
ALL the comparisons he made, from 1Cor13:1-3 were on some of the gifts mentioned in 1Cor12 and their worthlessness without love.
None of these gifts was a hyperbole. His use of "If" wouldn't change that fact. It would only mean if he does these gifts without love, then...
So if you rule out tongues of angels being a type under sorts of tongues and only a mere hyperbole, you can as well rule out every other gift in 1Cor12 mentioned in 1Cor13:1-3 as hyperbole

And btw, what's the usefulness of that so called tongues of angels if not needed here? Are you talking to Angels or to men here? Are you praying to Angels or to God? These are most questions I always ask myself and allow scriptures to answer me through the Spirit

He speaks mysteries(meaning undecipherable to the intellect) IN the spirit(would include other spirits). He edifies himself. He speaks to God.
Every physical exercise edifies your body but not your spirit. Even discussions edify your mind as well as brain.
Likewise every spiritual exercise edifies your spirit but not your mind in this particular(1Cor14:14)

Furthermore, you need to acknowledge that your position can't work with the example of known tongues you gave. As hooper has done enough to show that 1Cor14 referencing Is28 is unintelligible to the hearers(a sign to the unbelievers that they are out of fellowship with Divinity while we are) and Mye.r has shown you that your position will no longer be a manifestation of the Spirit since you have learned the language.
Also, 1Cor14:2 shows that it is mysteries and 1Cor14:14 shows that even the speaker's intellect is left in the dark.
So your position as well as the general balderdash in pentecostal circles won't work.
Notice I have maintained my position from the beginning without moving left or right. And there is no scriptural stance to refute it.

We have to be open minded to re examine our doctrine and there's therefore no shame in it if we're wrong all the way. Be open minded and re examine this doctrine and believe sir.

Exactly, I would say to you. Let's all just leave it here while you do the above and let the Spirit manifest Himself and guide us to Truth.

hoopernikao:
Read Rom 1-3 well. There is nothing as faith and another faith. Same faith from old to new. That is exactly what he is saying. No difference. Infact it is saying the opposite of what you are saying.It will simply translate that the faith preached in OT is same. Nothing different. Faith in Christ. Check all verses that reference Hab 2:4. They all mean the same. Same faith in from Genesis to Revelation. Same gospel to Adam to us. God's word didn't change according to faith.

Hi hooper. Eerrhn... you'll need to slow down hooper. If you don't take off your lens, you'll read some other meaning into my text as well as the scriptures. This is what I said, remember?

It's not two faiths but it's the degrees through which we come into the fullness of one faith. So also it's the degrees in which we come into the fullness of the baptism.

So the righteous will live from faith. But notice, in the gospel(as in NT), the righteousness of God will be revealed from faith to faith(Rom1:17). Meaning not all at once in the instant of initial faith.
Hence faith was only started at the receiving of the gospel but must still be finished to its consummation or final degree.(Heb12:2, 1Pet1:9)

But as I said baptism is what I want to focus on here else we will change the whole topic. So, I want you to state for me the different baptisms require of believers.

Degrees of baptism, not kinds. Like Ezek47. Actually if you baptism always goes together with faith. Each degree of baptism translates us to another degree of faith.
Note that it is one baptism into oneness with Divinity, to become the body of one Lord through the agency of one Spirit. So at every degree, the one Spirit is the agent of the baptism but His composite nature is revealed one layer at a time.
I have already expounded on the second degree in my first post here- the baptism/infilling of the Holy Spirit and shown from scriptures, irrefutably, that they are the same thing.
I will go on to expound on the first degree using scriptures and then point you to the next degree after the infilling only touching lightly on it here because this is a public forum and it is even needless for this thread. There is in fact a final degree even after this preached throughout scripture but that will as well be unnecessary and unsuitable here. So I'll be on to just the first degree and a little into the third.

As per your question. Surely Jesus is our example.

Yeah. But actually, what I mean is that He is not just our example as in to imitate or emulate but more than that. He is our syllabus and pattern for every believer, our very doctrine. Meaning we must go through every single step/phase of His life if we would complete our course on earth (1Pet2:21, Php2:5-12), yeah?


I still need you to acknowledge this because it will leave you with a need for an explanation of the pluralism in Heb6:4

Hence you must acknowledge that Eph4:6 doesn't take away from Heb6:4 before we proceed. You can also see this degrees of baptism in Ezk47.

Forgness:
I love you brother. Read the bolded statement in your post. At times, it is good to push people to the wall. I pushed you.... I know why I said Eviana will apologize at a point to L...d cos I see evidences that she is deep. I do not know if she understands deeply intercession, but she mentioned praying for people. Where I disagreed with her is the point L...d made above.... laughs at you lovingly...Instead, try to lis from it....L....ds speaks with respect to Eviana in this thread and vice versa, meaning they are still good and can relate with each other anytime. Just wait. You will see maturity soon in this thread.

I'll take it you have good intentions and a perspective but you have a few things still to understand.
First off, I wasn't pushed to the wall by you, not even by a centimetre. I'm in the same place I've been throughout this thread. Rather, you broke a spiritual protocol and crossed a line and you had to be warned to be careful about that for future purposes.

Second, like I said, I'm not trying to convince any particular person. That's why I didn't respond to his last quote which was needless since my target, the genuine inquirers would have been satisfied. Maybe that's your mission here and maybe you're here to prove to someone that God exists. I'm not. But I only demonstrate the reality of the spiritual realm to build brothers and I don't come on a thread to do that but only in real life. I make sure I teach the Word also because I understand it's importance.
I only took advantage of his great questions to give believers understanding. Remember he hijacked a believer's thread?
So go through my posts again and you will see that. In fact, if you do so carefully you will learn things for building your own faith and forget about the one whose questions I quoted because I addressed it to believers but I guess you're yet to do that.


Third, I'm caught by your assertion that knowing the power of God will stop you from needing to present the wisdom of God/ word of truth. Totally wrong. Don't know if at all, how much and for how long you've known the power but maybe when you walk in the power of God long enough and press deeper in prayer, God may show you the need to also have the word of truth ready at hand. I say this, as one having greatly explored the manifestations of the Spirit and power for years. The one thing I'm against though is the word from those who haven't walked in the reality and without a proof of its reality.
A minister of God must be fully armed in word and power(2Cor6:4,7, Acts6:3)
Again, go back and read the text I gave you in 1Cor2. You come to sinners preaching in demonstration of the Spirit and power(v1-5) but amongst mature believers who are already fully convinced in faith, you may simply explain the wisdom of God according to revelation(v6-7, 13-15, Heb5:12-14) for those who will receive. Else all the apostles' epistles are useless using your logic.

One more thing, she is not wrong that he is worshipping Satan indirectly and unconsciously because it's either God or Satan. That doesn't make him an immoral or vile person. He may in fact be very courteous and benign.
You seem to wanna depend on psychology but if you understand and depend on the power of God, you wouldn't need caution speaking truth because the power will still overcome him if it gets to work regardless of his being turned off by that.

Love you too, brother.

hoopernikao:
You can't explain scriptures in isolation

Ephesians 4

3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

How many body do we have?
How many Spirit? Lord? God? Father?

You don't isolate scriptures, you must interpret as a whole. From faith to faith never implies different faith or more than one. It simply means it is all faith from first to last. Hence "the just can only be by faith" that is both in old and new.

But let's leave this. Not the issue here.

I need to know how you find different baptisms for believers or levels of baptisms in the bible.

First off, you haven't answered my question. Is it a yes or no?
Second it matters much what I've done in Eph4:6. Cause he called it one faith and one baptism in the same text. But it doesn't take away the fact that faith unfolds in degrees (Rom1:17) as well as the baptism. Hence you must acknowledge that Eph4:6 doesn't take away from Heb6:4 before we proceed. You can also see this degrees of baptism in Ezk47.

Goshen360:
I know my brother but my times are tight considering work, rest before another work and family etc but I sure will do something soon....all of these so called "tongues of angels" etc will be dealt with also.

In all, with an open mind and a re visit of the doctrine of tongues, I'm now fully convinced and can teach that there's not one single person from Christ to the Apostles that spoke in "unintelligible" language or tongues in the scriptures like we see in Pentecostal churches today so where does our Pentecostal people got this from?

I believe it's from the same verse that had held me down too in the wrong doctrine for years, 1 cor. 14v2 but once that is understood with open mind, the rest of every 1 cor 14 is also understood.

Even if we say this Pentecostal "unintelligible" tongue is correct based on their understanding, Paul still said, KEEP QUIET IN THE CHURCH WHEN YOU DON'T HAVE INTERPRETER OR WHEN U CAN'T INTERPRET YOURSELF, rather speak or pray to God in private BUT same Pentecostal ignore that verse and still be speaking "unintelligible" language without interpretation. Doesn't that sound confusing to they themselves?

Lastly, I asked myself, where do we in the Pentecostal church today got this intelligible language from if not one single Apostle ever spoke it? But before I come to do my class, a simple question to the pro - unintelligible tongue crew, can they give us just one example where any Apostle spoke in this unintelligible tongue in scripture such as we have in Pentecostal churches today?

Lol. Myer's quote would have helped you see that your stance was impossible.
It appears your challenge is that unintelligible tongues to you is the jargons you hear in many churches today. I am totally against that. You put yourself in a position of either this or that with 1Cor14, but my stance is it's neither.
The only unintelligible tongues I speak of are tongues of angels as in 1Cor 13:1 not gibberish , jargons and senseless mantras and if you go through all my posts here with that at the back of your mind, you'd see I've done justice to every scriptural query.

MuttleyLaff:
Fingers aren't equal in sizes and/or length, but when they come close together and touching each, they appear unified, equal and the same

Hmmmh...

Forgness:
Instead of I to list out the "obvious" points you do not see, I prefer you state explicitly why you are 100% convinced there is a living God. Convince people with real proofs. Share your personal testimony why LordReed should return to Christ. Make him see how this God you proclaim is. Show His goodness. I cannot see it in all your posts. No one will take such serious. Therefore, convince us all you know this God you are promoting.

Show some courtesy when you talk to strangers. Did I ever tell you I'm here to convince him. This thread was not created by him and I stated exactly why I lent my answers in case you missed it, go back and read. They will do for those who they are meant for.
I did not come all the way here to convince one about God or make one return to Christ. The knowledge I lend here will help many believers grow and avoid pitfalls of Satan so you should be ashamed and sorry to judge them useless. I warn you to be careful with your words. We speak the wisdom of God among the mature(1Cor2:6-7).

Now you who are here to do the convincing, get on with it. The standard btw for convincing is not human logic and words but the power of the Spirit. So with the Hosts of Heaven, we wait and hope you succeed.

Acehart:
The word new (kainos) is always used in the sense of "unprecedented" in Gk language.

There are diverse species of angels and diverse angel tongues too.

So, I believe when the Lord spoke of new tongues(Mk16:17), he wasn't referring to tongues of men but of angels because "new"(kainos) meant "never before existing" i.e. never before been in existence as huper pointed out.

These?

Yep. The word "kainos" always referred to unprecedented.

Let's leave out the diverse species of angels else we open another can of worms. But, yeah, the Lord meant unprecedented tongues. And there are tongues of men and also of angels.

Acehart:
I didn’t stop studying after our discussion was marred by dubious men.

I wanted to check if my write-up was consistent with the scriptures. Then I stretched my tentacles to chapter 15. Behold, I saw the word “Writings” appearing three times; Between the second Corinthians and second Timothy, it appeared ten times. “The scriptures“, the word used in many Bible versions is translated as “Holy writings”. “Writings” is the English translation for “Ketuvim” or “ Hagiographa“; while the Holy Scriptures is what is called Tanakh - The Five Books of Moses (Torah), Nevi'im ('Prophets') and Ketuvim ('Writings').

One book that is not fashioned after the traditional Writing and has been classified as an Apocrypha is The Testament of Job literature. One major deviation of this literature is the content on angelic tongues and angelic form of worship in Heaven. In this literature, Job bestows his physical assets to his sons and a supernatural gift for his daughters; three heavenly made sashes that when worn, cause his daughters to enter a different mental state where eternal ones replace the present realities. It also causes them to sing exalted hymns in the dialect of certain angels. Did the infatuation for Knowledge cause the CorInthian church to delve in this apocrypha and cause Paul to react?

The thing is it's too far out the limb to believe this has anything to do with the book of Job. And there's enough evidence in the text as to what Paul meant so no need to start looking for what's not lost.

hoopernikao:
Okay so can you explain the baptisms. I will need clear explanation between the baptisms you mentioned.

Also, saying Ephes 4 mentioning ONE baptism is refering to ultimate isn't true.

There is a sequence in the verses

So is it also many Lords,many God's, many of the Faith etc? Also many Spirit in Christ?

One simply means one in all the context.

Do you know that he says one faith also in the same verse yet the righteousness of God is only revealed from faith to faith(Rom1:17). It's not two faiths but it's the degrees through which we come into the fullness of one faith.
So also it's the degrees in which we come into the fullness of the baptism.
Read my modified post. I have touched on the Holy Spirit baptism.

Before we can get into the degrees, you have to acknowledge that Paul mentions "baptisms" not baptism in Heb6:4.

Also I would ask if you know that the Lord Jesus is the pattern of our Christian life? yes or no?

hoopernikao:
So, refering repentance to acceptable baptism is a big issue. Firstly, that can't be called baptism and was never called baptism in the bible.

Baptism is taught in Epistles as one. Hence the baptism of the holyghost. This is also what you received at salvation. It is not what happened afterwards. A man who received salvation must have done so with a repentance heart i.e. a change of heart. Hence no man with salvation lacks the baptism of the holyghost. Any other visible or spectacular act you see afterwards are only signs. The receiving of the Spirit itself is supernatural and don't have to be spectacular. And that is done at salvation.

Naah. Mixing things up. There are different baptisms.
Baptism of the Holy Ghost is the second in order.
Baptism is taught as one in Eph4:6 because it is ultimately one but is administered in degrees hence in Heb6:2 "doctrine of Baptisms".

Dannyfan:
They're followers of Christ.
Most of these generals you're against as being righteous are not speaking for them self as general but the work done through them speaks volume of their dedication, obedience and adherence to the word of God.

@OP, what the Lord called baptism in the Holy Spirit in Acts1:5, receiving power in Acts1:8, being endued with power in Lk24:49 was fulfilled in Acts2:4 when they were all filled with the Holy Ghost.
So, you see clearly that the baptism in the Holy Spirit is scripturally same as infilling of the Spirit.


A quick exposition on tongues/Baptism in Spirit
The baptism in the Spirit is a free gift of grace available to every believer after they receive initial faith in the Lord and turn to Him in repentance. But is greatly misunderstood today.


Purpose of the baptism
The main purpose of this baptism is to make us witnesses of Jesus Christ(Acts1:. Note that witnessing is not evangelism as wrongly and widely taught. We have too many believers baptized in the Spirit today but hardly any witnesses hence God gets no real glory out of their lives. The Corinthian church was full of such. Not wanting to start something I can't finish, I won't get into what witnessing really means but for a start, let it be clear that until the flesh and mundane living are dealt with, we are no witnesses. You could be a celebrated and popular minister empowered with the anointing of the Spirit(truly baptized) and still not be a witness(Mt7:22)
So I'll just leave it at this. Let anyone who's been baptized in the Holy Spirit ask Him what it means to be a witness and to make them one.

Secondly, the purpose of this baptism is so we can all relate with the Holy Spirit and be taught directly by Him.(Jn14:26, 1Cor2:10-13, Jn16:13). Oh! how we have wasted the Holy Spirit and we try to teach ourselves by simply reading the scriptures. The scriptures though all very true will only bring forth arguments with everyone trying to interpret their own way(2Pet1:20-21) but if we all learn from the Spirit(Heb8:10-11, 1Jn2:27), we will come to unity of faith. All denominationalism and sectarianism today is the unfortunate result of our error.


Sign of the baptism in Spirit
The sign of this baptism is POWER(Acts1: in your spirit. This power is evidenced in your spirit and the Holy Spirit expressions in your day to day life, interrupting by force of superimposition, your default flesh expression. This baptism therefore fuels your spirit and incites the war against the flesh(Gal5:17).
The expressions of your spirit are the two in Heb6:5
1.) An initial insatiable appetite for the Presence of God and His utterances both directly from His Spirit and through scripture
2.) A mere FORETASTE(not fullness) of eternal powers/gifts(1Cor12:6-10)

When these two expressions are found in your life, the power of this baptism is operational.

What about the tongues and utterance?
Of all the gifts/expressions viz.eternal powers, tongues and prophecy (utterance gifts) are the two that EVERY believer can and should personally develop(others are given according to Providence and can then be developed). This is obvious from Paul's admonition(1Cor12:31,14:1). Remember that these are all gifts so we don't earn them by performance but by gratuity and then by knowledge, we can develop them.
While utterance came instantly on the patriarchal Jews in their baptism(Acts2:1-4). Utterance hasn't always immediately come on the gentiles in the baptism (hence1Cor12:30) but can nevertheless be developed(hence 1Cor12:31,14:1, Eph5:18-19)

Responsibility on us
According to Eph5:18-19, it's every believer's responsibility to keep being filled in the Spirit all the time so that we are of use to do the Lord's bidding. Only a filled vessel is of any use to the Lord.
Note that KJV shades the sense of Paul's in its rendition. The Greek text uses present continuous tense i.e.
...Be being(continuously) filled with the Spirit, speaking....Eph5:18-19
We maintain this filling by tarrying before the Lord in prayers.

MuttleyLaff:
Finallydead what did you type that got your post thats hidden above?. You prolly got yourself banned as well

Acehart:
I have been wondering too.

Well, that makes three of us, Lol. Prolly cos I quoted an old post here without modifying.

Acehart:
All things work together for good to them that love God. It was derailed - very true; but my invitation to the cultist was more like the invitation of Satan to heaven’s conference with regards to Job’s life - I wanted the topic to be driven for weeks so that many can see their error through proper biblical exposition - it achieved its aim. But I have this mentality that when one wants to hide the truth, he shrouds it around multitude of words; so I restrained myself as it would have been reprehensible if I attacked those guilty of shrouding a preconceived idea regarding tongues in many words; I learned to also respect your views as well as theirs, thank you.

I would like to know what view prevails with you presently.

Brother, you know a point came in my life where I realised I can only really know the things of God by His Spirit and not my intelligence which falls far short. So I gave up on it and began to seek God with an open heart. And true to Himself, He was merciful to me and began to show me Himself. That's why I always recommend every believer does same as we all have the same Holy Spirit in us.(Jn14:26, 1Cor2:10-13)
That way we would all be edified towards unity of faith and gradually less divided.
My position remains what is consistent with my experience and Paul's exposition as in my first post.
https://www.nairaland.com/5860057/should-speak-tongues-right/4#89700832
But I picked up a few things from our scriptural exchange too. Great thread before it was derailed. Well done and God bless.

Bodydialect57:
CYM, please.

Seen

Forgness:
I do not think OP implied you worshipped Satan. You actually raised vital points here, and no one has been able to answer you. It is just obvious.

Brother, I do not know you but I can feel that you are disappointed. You feel betrayed. I can feel you. I am trying to get your point. At what point did you really decide to hold on to the view that there is no God or god? What happened. Please share your story. It will really help.

I really am interested in knowing what vital points he raised that were not sufficiently dealt with. Did you read through the thread at all?
Please outline carefully these "obvious" points.

Myer:
The challenge with Part 1 is that it's no longer a spiritual gift if you speak a language that's already known to you even though unknown to your audience.

Also it does not line up with 1 Corinthians 14:14

For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.

Unknown tongue is not a tongue even the speaker understands.

The only explanation is there are 2 different tongues that can be inferred. Known tongues and Unknown tongues.

Somehow this thread was derailed by untoward elements. What a waste of six good pages thnx to...
Wonder if Acehart knew what he was inviting with Mmus6 and his seductive antichrist cult to something involving manifestations of the Spirit.
Was really interested in knowing what hoopernikao was gonna do about angel tongues and Acts2. He eventually didn't touch both aspects. I come here to learn not just to teach and one way or another, I do. Would like to see how the scripture can overturn itself on angel tongues, hooper.

Of course, Goshen360 will clearly see from Myer's reply how he's missed it and got himself in a difficult place when using his final method.

Eventually, we could all just pray and ask the Spirit to guide us into all truth. He is our ultimate Truth. Spiritual realities are best experienced rather than just spoken.

Omuneizzy6:
Happy Sunday Brethren,
According to the Bible, before now God called his servants through voice,other Anointed servants of God,Dreams, appeared to the in the form of Angel.

In today's case how will one know he or she is been Called by God for service.? and what are the mediums God use this days

Not the type some pastors of this days will call you just to come and assist them.. I mean true call for service..

Here's an excerpt from another post. The first part of it will answer your question.

It is one thing to be called. It is another thing entirely to be sent.

First, God never changes His standard. God is a spirit and God's call comes by revelation from dreams, visions, the distinct voice of God or heavenly epiphanies. Ask your friend if his mission statement, place of assignment, blueprint of operation have been revealed. All these automatically spring from a buoyant relationship with the Holy Spirit. And no one should be talking about answering the call who has not first learnt how to hear God directly on every issue for himself. So if he is yet to receive these, let him first seek God for a relationship and as the relationship grows with time, these will come.

If he has clearly identified these indices of his call, the next thing is to realize that God works with His own calendar not ours. And after God calls one, he MUST wait to be sent out.(Rom10:15)
God will not send you out until all necessary events attached to and surrounding your mission line up properly. Your call isn't just about you, it's about the destinies of people and nations and about their systems. If He is sending you to Singapore, for instance, He may have to first make the people ready to receive the message He gives you by causing some events in the nation etc.
He may tell you when ahead of time or he may just wait for you to prepare before he tells you.

Either way, it is your responsibility to first prepare for God's call before you're sent. You prepare by growing in the knowledge of his ways/word which comes by obedience, carrying His cross, by intimate fellowship with the Holy Spirit, by spiritual exercises of much praying, fasting and meditation. As you pay the price, you will receive degrees of anointing and authority for the call.
Take note, Satan does not respect your zeal, passion or genuine intentions. He only respects authority and your weapons. So never go out into the field without receiving authority from the Lord or you'll end up a casualty.

In essence, God will reveal His call to as many as can hear but He will only send out with His authority as many as prepare themselves and that, at His own right time.

Also be careful of seminaries and ministry trainings. There are definitely some good ones out there amongst many dangerous ones but it is only safe to go where God specifically sends you to go learn.

I would personally suggest that your friend isn't ready for ministry yet for him to still be asking these questions and for you to be helping him out too. But well, he's got his own choice.

Bodydialect57:
If l love as He has commanded, that is , selflessly and unconditionally, the door of joyous fellowship with the Father and Son will automatically open for me to bask in His love uninhibited.

Its such a pleasurable beauty to be the object of God's love.

Wonderful, Body. Never be discouraged by the love sacrifices no matter the cost, they will open up to you the pleasure of sweet, joyous love right here on earth as the Father and Son manifest by the Spirit to you.

Hi Blabbermouth, please don't mind if I drop my little bit. Many times I've found that if Christians would look for the sense in each others' views, they'd be closer to reality than when they oppose each other. Obaklaz and Eulalia will be closer to right if they see each others' points. A balanced teacher must thoroughly dissect the word of truth, not taking one part and leaving out the other lest more harm than good is done.(2Tim2:15)
Here's an excerpt from a previous post on some of this that may help and you may ask for clarifications.

So many ideas fly around about the great tribulation most times neglecting what the Lord Himself said about as well as His messengers.
First, let us establish the fact that the great tribulation is different from the outpouring of the wrath of God(Mt24:29) which comes immediately after to rescue the saints and judge the antichrist regime. The word was coined from this passage from the Lord -
Matthew 24:21
[21]For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
And you only need to read the next verse to know who will be around at the time-
Matthew 24:22
[22]And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the sake of the chosen ones those days shall be shortened.
So yes, there will be the chosen ones on earth during the great tribulation.

Furthermore, the early church was taught what immediate signs to look out for preceding the Lord's coming
2 Thessalonians 2:1
[1]Now we beg you, brethren, over the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and our gathering together unto him,
Take note now:
2 Thessalonians 2:3
[3]Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come an apostasy first, and the man of sin(antichrist) be revealed, the son of perdition;
So yes, again all believers were taught to expect to be present when the AC shows up and that must first be before the Lord's coming. They were taught by Paul himself to expect this first not the rapture as the next immediate event. So the rapture must come only after this

And how does this all fit together?
Some believers who pay the price and finish the full course of their race on time will overcome death, not having to die(1Cor15:51-57) and be caught up(raptured) to reign with Christ in the heavenlies having displaced Satan and His regime from there(1Thes4:17, Eph6:12). This will be in the middle of the AC's 7year revelation to the world, i.e. 3 and half yrs after the AC is revealed and just before He takes over the whole world to rule for 3 and half years.
The believers who don't finish early will meet with the takeover of the world by the AC in the middle of His seven year revelation and endure for the remaining 3 and 1/2 yrs the great oppression (tribulation) of the AC.
Those who will be raptured will not be caught unawares by the event but will be fully abreast of its hour because they will be dwelling in light as sons of the light while believers who will be caught unawares will be left behind because they walk in darkness not knowing what God is doing and not one with Him.(1Thes5:1-6). So if now, you don't hear God clearly, you should be thinking of missing the rapture already.


PS. Again it's more important to develop your spirituality to the utmost each day as if it's your last regardless of when exactly or how the Lord's coming is. If you cannot attain to the perfect standard of God today, do you risk thinking you will under the antichrist.
So after all this, let us seek the knowledge that appropriates the finished works of Christ in our lives and makes it our physical reality.

Hi Body, hope you've been doing great? Just posted this somewhere and felt it might be relevant to your thread too. Don't mind if I do, please.

There are two aspects of love. In greek, they are distinguished as the "agape" and the "philo" (I'm leaving out "eros" ).
"Agape" is simply love that is principled on utter selflessness/ sacrifice of one's will and devotion only to the will of God and needs(not selfish wants) of another.(1Cor13).
"Philo" on the other hand is based on pleasure and the enjoyment/joy of satisfaction derived in another, the object of love.

If you're a believer, you should have experienced at least a minute measure of God's pleasurable love(philo) which convinces us of His goodness.
But after that, the thing is, God wants every believer to experience this pleasure to the fullest, having fullness of joy and satisfaction within(1Pet1:8 ). In this "philo" love all desires for sin are expunged and all your desire is renewed for God and His beauty as you find nothing created compares to.
Jesus Christ remains the pattern for how we can enter into fullness of pleasure love. He lived on earth on the principle of selfless love(agape) until His death and after which He entered into fullness of His Father's joy and pleasure. And He gave His disciples the secret, capping it up here:
Joh 14:21-23 KJV 21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him 22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world? 23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. (here, after the agape love is fulfilled by the man, the pleasurable enjoyment comes through the manifestation of Father and Son to the man)


So also we can here on earth experience God's pleasure love of satisfaction if we live selflessly devoted to the will of God.

NB: God is love regardless of what we do. But those who will experience the fullness of joyous love at will are those who follow the principle of selfless love. Others will settle for mercy droplets and providence.
Some scripturally unlearned folks may tell you we don't have to work for God's love providing scriptures out of context. But we are not working, agape love is expressing the divine nature in us i.e. God is working through us and the more we sow this as a seed, the more we can yield the fruit of "philo" love/fullness of joy...

Might come back if I can to add.

Stephenmoka4:
Selflessly devoting , I will be honest with you that part is not an easy one. I do get jealous seeing religious people practicing it and get motivated to doing it, once they are out sight - well my materialistic self comes back .
One sided love is a no no for me, I always like it 50-50 or balance. I know the love of God is bigger than anything great emotion of man, which can never be a 50-50, you can't tell me God loves me and I will be still sinning, any idea how that feels.
I can be annoying and sometimes stirring up trouble, I know it's wrong but, I think it's fun a the moment but, I regret later ( I have a sensitive conscience)

What I am trying to say is, the thought of agape love is just beyond my concept of love, I don't understand why someone (God) will love anyone (me example) without seeing flaws, forgiving a continuous sinner (fall, repent, fall, repent again)

Read my modified post. You can only live out agape when the agape nature of God is in you. You cannot give what you don't have. Whoever does not have agape inside of Him yet is yet to receive God into Him.(Rom5:5, 1Jn4:7,8,12,13,16).

Stephenmoka4:
I usually expect the love man have for God should be a passionate and affectionate love.
The kind of questions I get made me think so;
Do you desire God
How much do you love God
Have you spend 5 minutes with God just for a day.



With questions like this I do expect the kind of love to be craving and desiring.

There are two aspects of love. In greek, they are distinguished as the "agape" and the "philo" (I'm leaving out "eros" ).
"Agape" is simply love that is principled on utter selflessness/ sacrifice of one's will and devotion only to the will of God and needs(not selfish wants) of another.(1Cor13).
"Philo" on the other hand is based on pleasure and the enjoyment/joy of satisfaction derived in another, the object of love.

If you're a believer, you should have experienced at least a minute measure of God's pleasurable love(philo) which convinces us of His goodness.
But after that, the thing is, God wants every believer to experience this pleasure to the fullest, having fullness of joy and satisfaction within(1Pet1:8 ). In this "philo" love all desires for sin are expunged and all your desire is renewed for God and His beauty as you find nothing created compares to.
Jesus Christ remains the pattern for how we can enter into fullness of pleasure love. He lived on earth on the principle of selfless love(agape) until His death and after which He entered into fullness of His Father's joy and pleasure. And He gave His disciples the secret, capping it up here:
Joh 14:21-23 KJV 21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him 22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world? 23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. (here, after the agape love is fulfilled by the man, the pleasurable enjoyment comes through the manifestation of Father and Son to the man)


So also we can here on earth experience God's pleasure love of satisfaction if we live selflessly devoted to the will of God.

NB: God is love regardless of what we do. But those who will experience the fullness of joyous love at will are those who follow the principle of selfless love. Others will settle for mercy droplets and providence.
Some scripturally unlearned folks may tell you we don't have to work for God's love providing scriptures out of context. But we are not working, agape love is expressing the divine nature in us i.e. God is working through us and the more we sow this as a seed the more we can yield the fruit of "philo" love/fullness of joy.

LordReed:
Then there is something greater than your god...

Not greater, but His ultimate Match, He can never overcome. That something is His very own state of being, His identity and definition. Behold, it is His very Self.

LordReed:
Begs the question who made the laws that your god must be bound by, if you insist it was your god who made the laws we are bound by in this universe. If it was your god who made them then he can manipulate them like you insist he does with the laws of our universe. If he didn't make them or can't bypass them then you have revealed that there is something greater than your god.

And yet still more contradictions. With every answer, more bramble.

Understanding. Whoever wants to understand should read carefully and he will.
God's state of being/existence and divine nature is the laws/guiding principles of the infinite universe where He dwells. He can not change His existence or state. All He does is based on this immutable eternal nature. As He cannot end His existence, He cannot alter it either, else He becomes something other than God.
Here where we dwell, however, is a different finite realm given to men and bound by different set of finite laws. If men want to see omnipotence as I defined it, they would replicate the infinite laws of divine nature here in this finite realm i.e. by adopting divine nature.

LordReed:
...I made 3 different responses to you and you just picked one to unload an unrelated response to, I have every reason to think you are...

It's good then. You equally have every right to a fully paid for mercy-ticket to heaven. God won't give up on you till your last breath, no matter what you do.

LordReed:
Are you seeing double? How is this a response to what I wrote that you quoted?

My response is not necessarily just for you but if you wish, you can read the modified posts and read your appended quote in case you lost yourself.

LordReed:
This still does nothing to dispel the point which is this devil character has as much power as your god. Here you are saying the devil dominates.



Oh please your god played no role in human progress. If your god really wanted human progress we would have developed very differently.

Your god is just a basket of contradictions. You claim he is all powerful yet he has these rules he cannot break much like a human being cannot defy gravity unaided. Even at that with aid a human can defy gravity with aid but your all powerful god cannot bypass spiritual laws. You guys need to really sit down and think through these things before you say them.

Forever and ever, the wisdom of men is foolishness to God, the Omniscient, Only wise.
Fellow believers, observe here the demand of God on your life. Ignorant flesh and blood say that the omnipotence of God should not be bounded by any laws else it is no omnipotence. Let us investigate this in finite logic because if God is truly the Creator, He must be found even in finite logic, not limited to it though but as well, in the infinite.
If any claims omnipotence must be able to do anything whatsoever, then he also says God must be able to end His own existence. But if God can end His existence, He is not eternal, hence cannot be God.
See then, fellow brothers, that God's omnipotence must be bounded by laws tied to His own existence and for His omnipotence to be, these laws of His existence must first be in place.
Omnipotence then, is the ability to ONLY alter ANY CREATED reality that is inconsistent with divine nature.
O believer, the heaven of heavens is God's jurisdiction but the heavens(space) and earth are man's(Ps115:16, Mt6:10, Eph6:12). Men only and not God, determine what reality will be on earth because this privilege were we given.
Do you now see that the only reason the earth is yet to see the omnipotence of God is because we have abused the privilege of freewill, failing to align ourselves with divine nature and it's laws in our lives, claiming wanton grace. Hence, Satan seducing men's will, retains His throne in the heavenlies(space) and on the ground of the God-given privilege, defies God while men are bound by laws of fallen nature and we manage little droplets of divine power according to our degree of conformity.
Let believers therefore seek in God, the mystery of becoming a new creation by His blood in reality, fulfilling Rev12 on the conditions of v11 because this is the real reason He came to shed His blood for men to take on divine nature. Do not be satisfied with a mercy-ticket to heaven.

LordReed:
LoL. The fact remains that none of these things match reality. If you think I am in the grip of the devil and you have the power of god, why can you not pray and cast the devil away? What exactly is stopping you or your prayer from having the effect you desire, seeing that that is what Jesus supposedly said will happen when you pray?

The many spiritual protocols.
Brothers, observe here the posture we must sustain in prayer. This physical world materialised from the spiritual(Heb11:3) and is bounded by laws as much as its parent spiritual world is. So God can't just do anything bypassing spiritual laws. His omnipotence plays out under these laws because these laws are tied to His state of existence which never changes. But if Eviana perseveres in prayer, some day she will get her request. The model the Lord gave for prayer is not instant magic but persistence(Lk18:1-9). Even most beloved Daniel(Dan10) had his prayers and fasting delayed by these protocols but ultimately got his answer for perseverance.
If I were you though, I wouldn't leave the custody of my soul to another but play my part.
Persistent attempt at reading the Lord Jesus' words, keeping a clear conscience(which God keeps tugging you at) and asking for mercy will cause His light to shine in your soul which when it finally shines inside will give you power over all darkness within which is the cause of all struggles of men with sin.

Eviana:
Finallydead,
Yes, LordReed does ask some good questions.
I'm not quite sure though, that any "satisfactory" answer will quench his doubts at this moment in time.
Does he really want the truth? Will he accept it & surrender?
I am gonna be really raw here..and not to hurt him, but to speak the truth.
There is an enormous battle going on for his soul. Right now, the enemy has him tightly in his grip.
LordReed's had ample evidence for some years now (through this section from some biblically-sound based guys), but he's been blinded because the answers don't please him or make sense to him. So he dismisses all of it.
Hence, the reason why I am daily praying a specific prayer for him.
I sense a mustard seed of hope for this man based on a few things that I've read.
The Holy Spirit has to guide, teach & convict Him of the truth...if he allows Him to.
My job is to plant the seed.

Yes Eviana, the battle is spiritual hence unrelenting prayer like that of Lk18:1-9 will be effective moreso if kept secret.
But from experience, I do know that most times Christians fail in presenting satisfactory answers for their faith because even though we've received a mercy-ticket to heaven we remain in much delusions that prevent us from experiencing divine reality here on earth hence I'm not convinced Lordreed's questions have been satisfactorily answered but I'm also aware that even satisfactory answers are not enough to bring men into light as the Lord Himself experienced His perfect answers were always misconstrued by human reasoning.
But like the Lord who nevertheless spoke, not for their present darkness but for the day they would come into light(Jn14:26, 6:63), I will answer some of these inquiries because even if it doesn't affect the inquirer today, brothers can learn plus the inquirer may come to the light tomorrow and can come back here to get necessary answers for development or if they never do, others will. In that way, these are seeds too.
I also see this critiquing from inquirer's as one of God's methods of awakening us out of our slumber into his Light if we are humble and sincere enough and see such as an opportunity for spiritual development.