₦airaland Forum

AbuTwins:
There are too many holes in his post!
Make una all feel high for some time.

I never get your time!

You would have done well to point out the holes. I'll believe the holes are imaginary until you point them out.

TenQ:
They are so prone to lying that it is impossible for them to do Islam properly without incorporating lies.

Unfortunately for them, it is easy to deflate a lie with appropriate questions.

This I have done: now they are afraid.

I asked them just three questions

Questions:
1. What was wrong with the Quran of Quran of Abu Bakr given to Hafsa to warrant editing by Zaid Zaid bin Thabit the second time?
2. There were four reciters of the Quran attested by Mohammed himself, why were none of them consulted in writing the Quran of Abu Bakr and later Uthman but instead Zaid Zaid bin Thabit was commissioned for the job?
3. Do you now agree that the first and second edition of the Arabic Quran were different?

Have you gotten any answers yet? Abutwins and I have been discussing together here since morning. He did attempt any of the questions?

AbuTwins:
This is why i sent you the hadiths where all the idols were destroyed!

Read and don't be ignorant!

There were 360 idols in there. Hubal was not destroyed. It was elevated to Illah and later, its second name 'Allah' was used as 'God' instead of Illah which is the original word for God in Arabic.

AbuTwins:
Show me where Hubal means Allah in Islam and not on a Christian website!

That is what is logical!

I have updated the last comment with hadith where idols are to be destroyed!
Read it and don't be ignorant!

Who says Hubal MEANS Allah? Hubal is Baal and Baal is Allah.

See the screenshots below. Could these be a mere coincidence?

AbuTwins:
It is foolishness making this claim as you don't even know the reference you are quoting from.
There's absolutely nothing i can say to an already prejudiced mind!

Can you explain the reference he quoted from? Is it an Hadith? Or Qur'an verse? Or from a Scholar of Islam?

The issue i always have with you is the claim that you have the infallible Holy Spirit in you. Yet you keep making blunders toddlers shouldn't make!

Was the said book written by a Christian?

AbuTwins:
Anyone can put up anything in the link!
I can prove to you from your Bible that the same theos used for logos in John 1:1 is the same theos used for Satan in 2 Cor 4:4. This doesn't involve any external link. Just your Bible!

Give me where Hubal is Allah in any Authentic Islamic text!

You will lie and call other liars illogically!

So, you expect Islamic texts to tell you that Hubal is Allah?

Theos is a general word which means a god or a goddess. So, Satan can be called theos by whoever sees him as such.

And as such satan is the 'theos' of this world according to 2 Cor. 4:4.

But Jehovah is our own Theos.

TenQ:
Even Mohammed himself forgot the Quran.
Why wouldn't he tell Muslims to take the Quran from him rather than his four anointed memorisers.
What would Islam be without lies?

How can Allah cause the Quran to be forgotten and then he brings BETTER or SIMILAR Quran.

Meaning that the Quran is NOT near resembling perfection.





Suyuti: Itqan, part 3, page 72
’Ibn Umar al–Khattab explicitly admits,
"Let no one of you say that he has acquired the entire Qur’an for how does he know that it is all? Much of the Qur’an has been lost, thus let him say, ‘I have acquired of it what is available"’.

Gbam!

This nails it

Lukuluku69, Antichristian and Abutwins would say this hadith was fabricated. They should please consider the eternal destination of their souls. Forget loyalty to any religion and seek to know the true God. That's the right attitude for salvation.

I advice Muslims to read the Bible for themselves devoid of any bias and also pray with all sincerity "Jesus, I do not believe you are God because the Quran says you're not God. And I do not understand your Godship because I believe you're just a servant like any other prophet. But, I want to seek the truth of who you are. Please if truly you are the Savior, reveal yourself to me as I go through this Bible."

I can assure my Muslim friends that if they pray that prayer above in all sincerity, they'll have Devine encounters with the Almighty God.

Another eye opening thread was opened by Advocatejare, Lukuluku69 was busy cursing instead of him to reexamine what he just read. The images of Baal's striking symbolism with Allah should be some foods for thought. But I'm surprised, the Muslim guy was cursing the person who was telling him the truth.

advocatejare:
Na so we see am, humans beings preaching to jinns and jinns converting to Islam.

Na so people like Lukuluku69 dey reason

I was very concerned by this writeup so much so that I had to go online to see things for myself. I found the following link which sheds more lights on how Illah is the actual word for God in Islam and how the Hubal, the moon god of arabia who is also called Allah and known in the Bible as Baal was elevated to be God. Then, his name Allah was changed to the name of God. How the Arabian used their authority on the Arabic language to make everyone see the name Allah as meaning God so much so that even some Bible translators got caught in the web of that deception.

Full details are on the following link:
https://manovaonline.com/news_detail/177/english

I hope antichristian and Abutwins would read the link too.

My earnest prayer is for everyone of our Muslim brothers to see the truth and be free.

advocatejare:
Do you know why some Islamic sect cut themselves to bring out blood? It’s because they worship Baal!

Hmm!

It's very clear.

advocatejare:
Have you ever thought of why Muslims have crescent moon at the top of the minarets of their mosques? It’s because their god is Baal/Allah, the moon pagan god!

The attached images are quite informative.

Bal = Allah. Confirmed!

advocatejare:
To further expose this demonic religion, a whole chapter of the Quran was named after demons (jinns), they call it Sura Al- Jinn (sura 72) and the demons were claiming to be Muslims in that surah

Muslims share religion with demons


And today, you will hear some of them claiming that they are preaching to demons to accept Islam and the demons are doing so 😂

Chai!

This is preposterous. Preaching to demons? Demons converting to Islam? There are Muslim demons? Chai!

Abutwins please I need your attention on this thread.

TenQ:
This is what they said in the compilation of the Quran

Sahih al-Bukhari 5005
Narrated Ibn `Abbas:
`Umar said, Ubai was the best of us in the recitation (of the Qur'an) yet we leave some of what he recites.' Ubai says, 'PI have taken it from the mouth of Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) and will not leave for anything whatever." But Allah said "None of Our Revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten but We substitute something better or similar." 2.106


Imagine the audacity to leave out SOME of what Ubai (the best of them in recitation) recites.

This had been happening since the time of Mohammed!

Till today it seems many verses of the Quran is lost or deliberately deleted

Sahih Muslim 1050
Abu Harb b. Abu al-Aswad reported on the authority of his father that Abu Musa al-Ash'ari sent for the reciters of Basra. They came to him and they were three hundred in number. They recited the Qur'an and he said:
You are the best among the inhabitants of Basra, for you are the reciters among them. So continue to recite it. (But bear in mind) that your reciting for a long time may not harden your hearts as were hardened the hearts of those before you. We used to recite a surah which resembled in length and severity to (Surah) Bara'at. I have, however, forgotten it with the exception of this which I remember out of it:" If there were two valleys full of riches, for the son of Adam, he would long for a third valley, and nothing would fill the stomach of the son of Adam but dust." And we used so recite a surah which resembled one of the surahs of Musabbihat, and I have forgotten it, but remember (this much) out of it:" Oh people who believe, why do you say that which you do not practise" (lxi 2.) and" that is recorded in your necks as a witness (against you) and you would be asked about it on the Day of Resurrection" (xvii. 13).


The verse:
"If there were two valleys full of riches, for the son of Adam, he would long for a third valley, and nothing would fill the stomach of the son of Adam but dust."
is no more in the current Quran

Hahaha, I see scam written all over the place.

1. Allah says he makes sure the crammers of the Quran don't forget what they crammed but he does substitute something better for them. That's to say, some old bad verses can be substituted for some new better verses. It seems Allah grows in wisdom to later realize that a verse is bad, then he causes the crammer.to forget the bad verses in preference for some newer better verses. Scam!!!


2. All these 'I have forgotten it' that are being said repeatedly shows that many parts of the Quran had been forgotten, and the Quran itself is not a complete book. The claim of perfect preservation is therefore false. They even left out some of the verses of their best crammer deliberately. This is deceit at best. It is a big scam!!

AbuTwins:
Paul had nothing! Tell us what he had and show us the proof of your claims.

You should ask me to give you proof and not just brandish me with the liar tag! You are the one in denial refusing to answer almost all the questions about historicity of your Bible here!



All your encounters circle around miracles or one form of negativities turned positive!
All religions have such!
Prove the historicity of the New testament vis a vis Trinity, Arius, Athanasius, Council of Nicea, Council of Constantinople, etc.

Read the testimonies of others about Paul. It far outweighs the testimony of others about Mohammed.

You don't have proof my friend. You're not taking with someone who does not know his Bible. Paul reprimanded Peter and Barnabas when they acted unscripturally out of fear of the Jews. They took it in good faith. Paul had no issue with anybody. If you have proofs for your claims, you won't wait for me to ask before showing it. Your militant attitude can still not cover up for the lies you're telling.

Encounters center around the miracle of salvation, the inner peace that follows and the resultant transformation that ensues. The very proof lies within the life of the individual who met Jesus.

AbuTwins:
Paul did had issues with some disciples of Jesus particularly the brothers of your God!



Tell me how do you encounter Jesus?
How do you know it was Jesus you encountered?
For you to know someone then you must have met the person before!
Did Moses, Abraham, Noah, David, John the Baptist, etc. encountered Jesus this same way?
Or is it a new way (since you said there was no new things in the Bible)?

Even Paul that never knew Jesus in real life claimed he met him as bright light!

Everyone started claiming they met Jesus from then!

How do you meet someone you never knew?

If you have what Paul had, you'll be a much better person than you are today.

And no, Paul had no issues with anyone whatsoever. That's actually a lie.

If you want to know how I met Jesus, wait for it. I'll share my testimony here on Nairaland some day. My dad was already an Evangelist but I was still practicing Christian religion until I met Jesus.

We're not talking about religion now. We're talking about encounters.

TenQ:
If the Quran of Abubakr was correct after its compilation, why was Zaid bin Thabit the second time looking for another missen verse.
Till today, we are still looking for the verses of breastfeeding adults ten times as it was part of the editing.


The first Time , Zaid said:
So I started looking for the Qur'an and collecting it from (what was written on) palme stalks, thin white stones and also from the men who knew it by heart, till I found the last Verse of Surat at-Tauba (Repentance) with Abi Khuzaima Al-Ansari, and I did not find it with anybody other than him.

The Second Time, Zaid said:
Zaid bin Thabit added, "A verse from Surat Ahzab was missed by me when we copied the Qur'an and I used to hear Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) reciting it. So we searched for it and found it with Khuza`ima bin Thabit Al-Ansari.


The so called perfect preservation of the Quran: that was perfectly memorised by Muslims.

There's no guarantee that there are no other several missing verses.

How did Zaid realize that a verse was missing? Did he know the whole verses of the Quran to be able to detect missing, non missing and imported verses?

AbuTwins:
Tell me how do you encounter Jesus?
How do you know it was Jesus you encountered?
For you to know someone then you must have met the person before!
Did Moses, Abraham, Noah, David, John the Baptist, etc. encountered Jesus this same way?
Or is it a new way (since you said there was no new things in the Bible)?

2 Corinthians 11:14
And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light.

Even the person acclaimed to have written the above fell into what he wrote!

The same light he met on the way from Damascus!

When you meet Jesus, you'll know beyond reasonable doubt that you've met him.

If Paul fell victim of what he wrote about, he would have been rejected by the followers of Christ who knew better than him.

When a person meets Jesus, you will know for sure you met Jesus. The signs are overwhelming. Very few people know Jesus even among so called christians.

You need to meet Jesus. No religion saves. Christianity inclusive. Only Jesus saves. He'll take you and make you a new man.

TenQ:
Of course
A difficult question to answer because lies had preceded Muslims about the perfect preservation of the Quran and now, answering the questions will betray that fact.


Can Muslims do without fabricating their Deen?

All manner of lies were told to hold these people in captivity.

Hehehe, the Quran was perfectly preserved indeed. Deceivers.

AbuTwins:
Okay here is a video of a Pastor reverting to Islam and closing down all 8 locations of his churches around New York! June 26, 2023

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MumA8_WEjUI

He even converted 12 Pastors with him!

Let me keep bringing you the stories you want now so you can cry well!

We're not talking about conversions but transformations. Even many pastors don't know Jesus. They need an encounter with Jesus. Anyone can be a pastor. But not everyone has an encounter that leads to transformation.

If you want to meet Jesus today, He'll reveal Himself to you and transform you. It doesn't matter whether you're a pastor or a Christian of many generations. If you've not met Jesus, your Pastorship and Christianity are mere titles.

You need Jesus. He's the only One who can put a new you in a new jacket.

AbuTwins:
So if the Buddhist/Hindus Scriptures transforms lives then it must be inspired? The end will always justify the means! And what lives are transformed?

Where did he meet Jesus? Show us the video where he met him? Proof to us he meet the Arab African Palestine-Israeli Jesus and not the White man Jesus Rome sold to you!

Show us where they met Jesus and proof to us how it was Jesus they met?

Where did he meet Jesus? Show us the video where he met him? Proof to us he meet the Arab African Palestine-Israeli Jesus and not the White man Jesus Rome sold to you!


Where did he meet Jesus? Show us the video where he met him? Proof to us he meet the Arab African Palestine-Israeli Jesus and not the White man Jesus Rome sold to you!

Every major religion has one or more of these kind of stories! I can share you stories and videos too!

Discuss the Historicity of the Bible and tell us how it was preserved till today?

The buddhist don't have any claim of transformed lives. Neither does Islam.

All religions put a new jacket on an old man. No one disputes that. But only Jesus puts a new man in a new jacket. That's the difference. When you see a new man in a new jacket, you can be sure it can only be done by Jesus.

If you desire a transformation today, Jesus would reveal Himself to you. He'll transform your life and make you a new man clothed in righteousness and enveloped by the unmistakable Presence of God.

AbuTwins:
This is not a diversion at all. You can respond to it and respond to others or are you afraid to talk about Biblical breasts?

Carnal minds wrote most of the Bible and there was no Holy Spirit involved. In fact many were just writing Books and the Church fathers chose what they thought was okay to prove the Greek trinity Polytheism!

Forasmuch as many have taken in hand to set forth in order a declaration of those things which are most surely believed among us, even as they delivered them unto us... Luke 1:1-3



What is the Historicity of the old testament and New testament?
Is there any carbon dated manuscript of the entire Bible before 400AD?
How can you proof the Bible is truly the inspired word of God and that those who it acclaims wrote it?

If you want to know whether the Bible is inspired, look at the lives it has transformed.

- Chronic Islamic terrorists who encounter Jesus through it get entirely saved and transformed. One of the numerous examples is Imad ud-din Lahiz who was an Islamic writer, preacher and Quranic translator, who met Jesus and was transformed by the Word of God. Check out his life today.

- Chronic sinners such as armed robbers and hardened criminals who encounter Jesus through it get transformed. Kayode Williams was such an armed robber who terrorised south western Nigeria in the 80s and early 90s. He encountered Jesus and got transformed through the Word of God. Check out his life today.

- High ranking members of the occult who encounter Jesus through it get transformed. Nathan Uzorma is one of the numerous cultists who encountered Jesus during one his occult operations. He renounced Satan, embraced Jesus and became transformed by the Word of God. Check out his life today. He even wrote a book "Occult Grandmaster Now in Christ"

My dad was a chronic womanizer and lover of bottles. He battled these vices until he encountered Jesus. His life was transformed. The chronic womanizer in him disappeared, and he grew in faith to become an Evangelist who was filled with the power of God before he departed this earth.

I am a living testimony of the inspired Word of God. From a chronic Muslim background to a transformed child of God who has the intimacy of God, filled with power and might, and living by the power of the Holy Ghost with the unshakable assurance of eternal life through the Word of God.

AbuTwins:
Song of songs is for what you say? Must your God inspire breast all the time?

1. The Prayer
Proverbs 5:18-19
18 May your fountain be blessed,
and may you rejoice in the wife of your youth.
19 A loving doe, a graceful deer—
may her breast satisfy you always,
may you ever be intoxicated with her love.

(Say Amen)

2. My Beloved
Song of Songs 1:13-14
13 My beloved is to me a sachet of myrrh
resting between my breast.
14 My beloved is to me a cluster of henna blossoms
from the vineyards of En Gedi.

3. Your Breast
Song of Songs 4:5-6
5 Your breast are like two fawns,
like twin fawns of a gazelle
that browse among the lilies.
6 Until the day breaks
and the shadows flee,
I will go to the mountain of myrrh
and to the hill of incense.

4. More description
Song of Songs 7:7-8
7 Your stature is like that of the palm,
and your breast like clusters of fruit.
8 I said, “I will climb the palm tree;
I will take hold of its fruit.”
May your breast be like clusters of grapes on the vine,
the fragrance of your breath like apples,

5. Kiss of life
Song of Songs 8:1
8 If only you were to me like a brother,
who was nursed at my mother’s breast!
Then, if I found you outside,
I would kiss you,
and no one would despise me.

6. Little sister with no Breast
Song of Songs 8:8-10
8 We have a little sister,
and her breast are not yet grown.
What shall we do for our sister
on the day she is spoken for?
9 If she is a wall,
we will build towers of silver on her.
If she is a door,
we will enclose her with panels of cedar.

7. Breast like towers
Song of Songs 8:10
10 I am a wall and my breast are like towers.
Thus I have become in his eyes
like one bringing contentment.

It seems what you suggest is false. Check Number 6 above titled Little sister with no breast! Is this from a husband to a wife? And is this from God?

Ken4Christ
FxMasterz

All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, so that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work. 2Timothy 3:16-17

Na Scriptures be this oooo!

This is a diversion at best.

Are you saying we have not read those scriptures before and therefore you have to show them to us?

The carnal man can't understand spiritual things. The scriptures you're trying to disparage have been used mightily of God to bless and transform lives for several millennials before the lies of the Quran came into existence.

These scriptures are still blessing and transforming lives today. A carnal man blinded by his carnality cannot make anything of any part of the Word of God. That's why, once you become born again, the first thing God does for you is to give you His Holy Spirit so that through His Spirit, your understanding can be opened to partake of the spiritual meal which is the Word of God.

AbuTwins:
But Jesus was sent to die for your sins in new testament, which human died for sins in the old testament? Is human sacrifice not a new thing? is Trinity not a new thing or did Noah, Abraham, Moses, David and Solomon worshipped three in one Gods like you? We can agree your new testament contradicted the old testament too. We believe in Progressive revelation...

You used the word "Majority" so show us how majority of the Qur'an is from Gospel of Saint Barnabas.

Discuss the historicity of the said Gospel vis a vis that of the Qu'ran.
Did the Gospel of barnabas copied the Qur'an or the Qur'an was copied from it?
What language was the Gospel of Barnabas written in and how did it reach Arabia?
Who translated it to Arabic?
Do we have the Arabic manuscript of the Gospel of Barnabas?
When was this translated to be copied to the Qur'an?

He doesn't need to render account. This is why there are scribes. Don't be dogmatic on ignorance. Illiterates employ literates from time immemorial. So if you say he's not unlettered then you should show us authentic reports that he was not just this flimsy deductions.


When it is said that he wrote something it means that it was written on his behalf and he appends it.

Ibn ‘Abbaas (one of the eminent companions of the Prophet even the son of the Prophet's uncle), may Allah be pleased with him, said: ‘Your Prophet was unlettered, unable to read or write or calculate.’ Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): ‘Neither did you (O Muhammad) read any book before it (this Qur’an), nor did you write any book (whatsoever) with your right hand . . .’
[Al-‘Ankaboot 29:48]."


It will be lies to you who already have a bias. Keep looking for ways to fault the Qur'an, Islam and Muhammad.

No Muslim will ever say Jesus was illiterate not to have written even a word from the Bible throughout his 33 years on earth!

The Trinity, the death and resurrection of Jesus were not new things. They were prophesied in the Old testament and fulfilled in the New. The new testament itself was a fulfillment of prophecy.

Read the book of Barnabas before arguing please. The Quran was copied from many sources, including the Bible. Please do your own research, I don't need to lecture you on this. I've done well to point you in the right direction.

Of course Jesus too didn't go to school but no Christian would ever say Jesus was illiterate. The disciples of Jesus too were uneducated, but no Christian would ever use that as a premise to argue the inspiration of the Bible.

If you say Scribes wrote business accounts for Mohammed, what stops them from writing a book for him? Besides, Mohammed himself was said to have written a marriage contract without any help. Mohammed was not unlettered.

AbuTwins:
Yes an unlettered person can be the manager of a business 1400 years ago!

There are many especially without education become millionaires here in Nigeria with successful businesses and even controlling graduates!

So it is not impossible that he keeps valuables for people and he returns it to them intact as he was given! And a business manager can even have scribes to document data for the business.

Secondly, you said majority of what "Muhammad salallahu alayhi wasalam wrote in the Qur'an" is from the gospel of Barnabas.

This is a false premise from Satan the devil. The Qur'an was revealed by Allah through Angel Gabriel.

And even you using the word "majority " shows you are a blatant liar!

Even historical and scholarly evidence shows you lied!

That Jubril was an imposter. A demon at best disguising itself as angel Gabriel. There's no new revelation from God that can contradict previous revelations. That's one of the ways to know if someone is of God. All revelations from Genesis to Revelation are rhymed. They're all contradicted by Mohammed alone, yet claiming prophethood from the God of Abraham.

And yes, Mohammed copied from the book of Barnabas especially the aspects regarding the story of Jesus. Read the book and confirm for yourself.

Yes, uneducated people can own businesses but they won't deliver their businesses to be managed by an unlettered man. If Mohammed was unlettered, no one would give him a business to manage. An unlettered man cannot render accounts, which is the major responsibility of a business manager. And Mohammed was said to be the manager of a large business enterprise for that matter. He was not unlettered.

Another proof that he was not unlettered is that it is written in your habits that Mohammed himself wrote the marriage contract between himself and Aisha. I may not be correct about who Mohammed wrote marriage contract for but I'm absolutely correct that he wrote a marriage contract. An unlettered person cannot write a marriage contract.

All the noise that Mohammed was unlettered were all lies. The Quran was actually copied from many books, not the book of Barnabas alone. Many of those books are still in existence today.

Kobojunkie:
I see his gullible sheeple are already working hard to rewrite the tale as told by their GO Daddy. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
😁😁😁

If that's what he said, then it means that's what he thought as I have already explained.

Have you gone for deliverance? You really need Jesus in your life.

Lukuluku69:
Bring Scriptures.

And not Concoctions.

Show me where it is stated that the world was not ready for Grace.

Simple.

Of cause I never said the scriptures says 'The world was not ready for grace." You should ask for scriptures if I had said that.

You'll need to study the Bible and have God's plan of salvation revealed to you from Genesis to Revelation to understand that.

Grace needed many factors to go worldwide out which I will give you 2:

1. An example of man's failure at self righteousness (Demonstrated through Israel and the law)

2. A language and means for the message to spread across the world (The Greek language and the spread of the Roman empire provided this platform). If Grace was introduced for example at the time of Moses, the Israelites would have personalized it the same way they did the law. The language barrier would also add to the factors that'll support the personalization. But God introduced grace at a time when almost everybody was speaking Greek and therefore people of different nations could understand one another using one language - Greek.

God wants to reveal Himself to the whole world, not just Israel. So, the world had to be ready.

Lukuluku69:
My earlier post holds on this.

There's virtually no incident in scripture that you'll quote that I'm unaware of. I'll explain the incidents to you including the background of such incidents.

Lukuluku69:
Your Definition of Grace is nothing but a Comedy. So, stop it with me.

If we ask you to bring Scriptures where it is said that the World was not ready for Grace, you can't but would rather take us on another merry go round thing with empty and meaningless drivel.

Read my previous post, I told your Grace thing was Paul's idea and unwittingly you agreed by quoting one of many Paul Concotions that you regard as Scripture.

Lol

Do I need to bring scriptures to tell you that the world was not ready for grace? Even you, are you ready for grace?

If God had not first introduced law with Israel to make the world see how useless their self righteousness is before bringing in Grace, would anyone accept grace?

You're yet to see how useless your self righteousness is, that's why you're mocking the grace concept. Look at Israel, and you'll understand.

God gave Israel the opportunity to use their self righteousness to the fullest measure , yet they failed. If man has not failed in his self righteousness bid, and knows how deep a pollutant sin is to his soul, and also understand that the Almighty God has zero tolerance for iniquity, he won't see any need for grace. That's the current state you are as a person. But that's why God first introduced Israel and the law so that we may appreciate Grace when it is revealed.

You are counting on your self righteousness as well as the possibility of God overlooking your misdeeds in mercy to make heaven. You're deceiving yourself my friend.

God has to clothe you with His own righteousness after washing you with the Hyssop which Christ has presented, and empower you through His Spirit to overcome the sin nature and its desires before you can see God. Don't be deceived.

The more you mock the Grace concept, the more you confirm why God had to first demonstrate to man that he needs Grace before giving man that very Grace. The demonstration was accomplished through the law and Israel.

Lukuluku69:
If I show you where the Disciples didn't understand Jesus and had to rebuke them outside of the incidents you referenced, would you agree that you are Ignorant of your Bible?

List the scriptures, I'll explain the incidents for you. There's no incident you want to list in the Bible that I do not already know about.

Lukuluku69:
I know you won't fail with the Comedy.

The World is not ready for Grace you say? Can you show me where that is written in the Bible? I know you can't, that's the Brainwashing exercise we talk about. Every one of you just go on the bend and say things.

So, what happened to those who lived before your Grace? What about other Nations of the world outside of Israel? How are they going to obtain Salvation?

The idea that God had to kill himself to appease himself in order to forgive the work of his hand is revolting, embarrassing and senseless in it entirety.

So, safe it for Sunday School. That Teaching/Doctrine is not for Right thinking humans. It is against the Bible. It is against Justice and Fairness.

Whatever You sow is what you reap.

Salvation is obtainable for Humans once you followed God Command. This was what Jesus himself taught when that questioner came to him and ask "Good Master what can I do to see External Life (Salvation).

Jesus did not tell him wait I will soon die for your sins rather he told him to go keep the Commandments.

That's Salvation and not what Paul say it is.

The World WAS not ready. God is a dispensational God. He does things according to His established order.

Since you don't understand what Grace is, you may see it as a comedy. Anyone who understands the concept of Grace would understand.

Before grace came God used law to guide people. After law has done its work, Grace came through Jesus Christ.

It's Muslims who are brainwashed. Nothing of what you've been saying for example has any reference in your quran.

Now, let me show you from scriptures:
But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

Galatians 3:23-26
"Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus."

The law was a Schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ. When Christ came, He brought grace with Him.

In the days of the law, God was not dealing with the world but only with Israel. When Christ came, He brought Grace both for the world and for Israel.

What is Grace? Grace is unmerited favour which brings justification through faith and not through works.

Those who lived before grace came are guided by the law of God written on their minds.

You actually don't know what salvation is. And you don't understand what sin is either. So, you still don't even know why you need Jesus.

Lukuluku69:
What if I referenced other incidents outside what you enumerated above, would you agree that you are ignorant of the contents of the Bible?

There are no incidents whatsoever. Even the incidents I mentioned above do not confirm your position. I just mentioned them to know if those were the incidences that probably confused you to think His disciples didn't understand Him.

If His disciples didn't understand Him, is it you who now understand Him? What do you take the disciples of Jesus for? They were men filled with the Holy Ghost who shook the then Roman world for Jesus.

Lukuluku69:
God delayed Grace?

Comedy Central.

Please keep at it.

Humour me please. So, why did Jehovah delayed Grace?

If you ask the right questions, you'll get the right answers.

Grace was delayed because the world was not yet ready for it. Even you have rejected the grace of God.

In the Old Testament, God was dealing with only Israel in a theocratic form of government. Even when they switched to Monarchy, God was still very much involved.

The Old Testament served its purpose. The law was for Israel. Grace is for the whole world.

If there's any comedy here, the comedy is that Grace has come, and you Lukuluku69 has rejected it but have decided to serve another god instead, and a prophet who has nothing to do with God of all Grace.

Lukuluku69:
But your Cousin TENQ posted some link from Wikipedia and you agreed with what is in it nah.

So, what changed? Selective Amnesia? Or what?

Were his links from Wikipedia? I didn't check them out anyway. I wanted TenQ to handle that since he's more knowledgeable on the topic.