₦airaland Forum

MaxInDHouse:
Ọmọ you're not seeing anything at all!

If you're not working with any church where you are being TAUGHT then you're deceiving yourself because Jesus said his disciples should TEACH people! Matthew 28:19-20

Yes we teach people. Satan teaches people too. So, teaching people is not the yardstick for knowing whether you need help or not. The question is "What are you teaching people, and what are you being taught?" So far, I can say you've been taught falsehoods, and you've been teaching lies.

MaxInDHouse:

At least you've agreed by the picture you uploaded that there's a speck in your eye. That's nice actually.

There's no beam in my eye because I don't take anything any man tells me hook, line and sinker without putting it to some rigorous scrutiny before accepting it as truth. I value my soul so much, I don't want anyone to deceive me. So, let's work on the speck that's on your eyes. There's no beam in mine, please relax.

Courz:
These are very important questions that he has refused to answer. Since you both started discussing, he hasn't made any tangible point and he wants you to answer him. This is just to show that JWs don't know anything outside their manipulated Bible and publications. Mad MaxinDhouse likes to run away from questions that reveal the deceit of his Cult. He knows where the discussion is going.

I've asked him questions regarding how he came to confirm that his organisation is telling him the truth. I eagerly await his reply.

MaxInDHouse:
How come two are mentioned and one is following the other closely yet you say one is a spirit while the other is a place?

Who created the spirit you called "DEATH"?

Whose will is he/she/it doing?

Have you answered these questions?

I've answered this questions already. I told you that death came into the world through sin. I've also told you that hell closely follows the death of wicked men, and heaven closely follows the death of righteous men . That should not be difficult for you to understand. Why asking the same questions again? Do you want to force your lies on me?

Let me ask you a question again.

How did you confirm that what the JW leaders are telling you is the truth? Have you ever researched outside the organisation and read original texts and manuscripts of the Bible to ascertain the veracity of all their claims?

MaxInDHouse:
Continue deceiving yourself with hypocrisy!

You're the hypocrite, hope you know? I've answered virtually all your questions while you've been unable to answer any of mine.

1. Can a condition ride a horse? How come death rides a horse if it's a condition?

2. Can torment happen in the grave? How come the rich man in the grave was also in torment according to your manipulated book?

3. If hell is place that shall be cast into the lake of fire with all murderers, liars, etc, how come you say there's no punishment after death?

4. Jesus said that they'll be wailing and gnashing of teeth in hell. How come you say hell is the grave. Can people gnash their teeth in the grave?

5. You said being cast into the lake of fire means being cast into none existent. How do people become non existent by gnashing their teeth and wailing?

6. You said death is a condition but it rides a horse and is referred to as "his' and 'him'. Why?

7. The rich man was suffering in hell according to the Lord Jesus, but you and your leaders say, there's no punishment after death. Was the Lord Jesus lying or your leaders are the liars?

I have asked you several other questions which you blatantly refuse to answer. Don't you love your soul? I guess you love your lying leaders more than your own soul..

Courz:
There was a video from a Satanist I came across. The lady was saying that Hell isn't what we think it is. She said Satan told her that she shouldn't worry about being in Hell. He said she won't experience torment but rather, he will reserve a spot for her where there is no fire and no torment. She will be protected. Satanists have this same belief. I laughed at this girl because Satan just lied to her. Then I realised the Lie JWS are told and asked myself why is It that only JWs and Satanists believe this? Same thing. I realised that in order for Satan to take you to Hell with him, he has to lie to you about what it is and the conditions there so that you wont take it as a big deal and then ypu find out too late after you die. It's a trick! This is very dangerous.

Satan has mastered the craft of defrauding gullible souls, and this JW organization is one of his playgrounds.

Courz:
Gbam. At the bolded, nothing but Fraud. They don't want them to know the Truth. They want JWs to go through the same Hades/Hell that they are going. Typical trait of Satan.

The leaders are serving Satan for sure. They know where they're going but I pity their gullible followers who do not search the scriptures daily to examine whether they've been hearing the truth or not.

Courz:
Research outside their publications and Bible is a Taboo in JW. Real Satanic Cult. Their leaders are taking them to the pit but they don't know it. Their leaders told them that they are going to Hades/Hell like the Rich Man, and they accepted without questioning.

It's the way of fraudsters.

They'll tell you not to tell anybody whenever they promise you unrealistic gains in order to scam you.

If you're forbidden to research outside of what they tell you, then, how do you confirm that they're telling you the truth?

Meanwhile, the scriptures says:

"Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." 1 Thessalonians 5'21

How do you know what is good if you have not proven it?

MaxInDHouse:
Oya nah let's think!

I say DEATH and HELL are both conditions that will no longer exist when God's kingdom come but you said DEATH is a living spirit while HELL is a place simply because you don't want to agree that the lake of fire is also a condition.

So i'm listening how come two are following each other but one is a spirit while the other a place?

So, you don't know that death is followed by hell for anyone who does wickedness? And death is followed by heaven for anyone who does righteousness?

If hell is a condition that would be cast into a lake of fire with all murderers, sorcerers, liars, etc? How come you say there's no judgement after death? When the Bible said it clearly that "Man is appointed to die once, after this the judgement."

I'm very angry with those wicked souls that have taught you all these false doctrines to entrap your soul in falsehood.

Courz:
Exactly. They are enemies of their own souls. Imagine allowing a Group of people to Lie to you about where you will go after Death. This is one of the biggest deceptions because you will be led astray and you will go to the same destination they are going. This is why I pity Jehovah's Witnesses. They are being led to the slaughter and Satan will be very pleased. They are brainwashed to accept that they will go to Hades/Hell after Death. They don't know that Watchtower being a Satanic Cult has deceived them to accept Destruction.

Even if you're being deceived, should you deceive yourself? That's the problem I have with them.

What stops a serious follower from sitting down, looking at the book he has been given, read religiously, compare with original manuscripts, research various interpretations, reason things out yourself and ask for the help of the Holy Spirit?

They'll do none of the above but carry the doctrines of some men on their heads like gala and start arguing against the Bible in honour of the falsehood they've been taught.

Courz:
Just look at the questions he is asking you. Absolutely no understanding of Spiritual matters. Lol. The guy is a block head. Lol.

Not so. He is deliberately rejecting the truth and looking for ways to explain it away. So, I decided to answer him to get him cornered. It might force him to think.

MaxInDHouse:
Hmmmmmmmmmm mental gymnastics!

So HELL is a place but DEATH is a spirit please is it a male or female spirit?

Where's the mental gymnastic? Look at all the numerous mental gymnastics you do.

Death's gender? Answered in a recent post.

MaxInDHouse:
So for the first time this spirit's gender is unknown shey?
No wahala, oya who CREATED it and for what purpose?

A spirit is a spirit. What problems do you have with its gender? See the gender below:

"And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him."

MaxInDHouse:
And DEATH and HELL were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. Revelation 20:14

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=bible.kingjamesbiblelite

HELL is a place but DEATH it's companion is a spirit shey?

Are you saying a condition shall be cast into the lake of fire?

Hell is a place. Death is a spirit. The lake of fire is a larger fire than the place called hell.

Consider hell as a kind of large burning coal pot. Consider the lake of fire as a large expansive fireplace. Consider the burning coal pot being cast into the large fireplace.

Hell being cast into the lake of fire only tells you that its a movable fireplace. There's no way you can cast a condition in the fire. A condition also cannot ride a horse. Death is a spirit. Not a condition.

MaxInDHouse:
Who created the spirit called death?
And whose will is he/she/it doing?

Since death will also be casted into the lake of fire where all enemies of God are thrown!

The spirit of death entered the world through sin. It shall be captured and cast into the lake of fire, and then, death shall be no more. Men shall live forever.

Aemmyjah:
Just like hunger and war is a spirit na
Were they not riding horses too
Just be deceiving yourself

Would you please show me the scriptures where hunger and war were riding horses? I mean the name of a horse rider called hunger or war.

Aemmyjah:
1. When is the judgment? Immediately after death or in the future?

2. What is hell? Are people being fast into the lake lof fire or later

3. The resurrection occurs immediately at death or in the future?

These questions don't disprove anything. We don't even need the answers to them.

The Bible clearly teaches that hell is a place of torment for evil doers. The rich man was in hell. The thief on Christ's right hand on the cross was to meet Jesus in paradise same day. Who's lying? Jesus or your leaders?

MaxInDHouse:
Are death and Hell living creatures to be taken to lake of fire for tormenting?
When we tell you the meaning of scriptures you want literal meaning oya make sense out of what you're saying nah!
DEATH and HELL both conditions not part of God's purpose for mankind were thrown into the lake of fire then the Bible said the lake of fire means the second death yet you're not getting the sense.
Guy if that's what's holding you back from evil deeds you better do whatever your soul crave {Ecclesiastes 9:10} because there is no punishment after death it's either you live or you die that's the two options God gave Adam and Eve! Genesis 2:17

My friend, no punishment after death? That's the most satanic pronouncement I have ever heard. And of cause, no other person can tell you that but Satan. My friend, embrace the truth. Jesus said the Rich man was suffering in hell. Are your leaders the liars or Jesus Christ?

Revelation 6:8

"And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth."

Death is a spirit my guy.

Infact the Bible says:

"The last enemy to be destroyed is death." 1 Cor. 15:26

By casting death and hell into the lake of fire, 1 Corinthians 15:26 is fulfilled.

Think about it my friend. How else can death be your enemy if it is just a condition? Can a condition ride on horses?

Lucifyre:
😁 Da fuq! Man u really just confirmed ur level with this ur bullet points huh! U really need to educate urself man cause... Anyways no plenty talk, it's still simple really, can u provide proof of any of ur claims so far with sources?? No & Never! End of story. If science can't provide 100% proof, please by all means provide ur 100% proof to make and establish ur claim as fact. 😁

Scientists didn't create the world. Whatever they don't know today, they can know tomorrow. Whatever they've not found today, they can find tomorrow. It's unwise to make conclusive deductions on matters that are still being actively researched.

It's logical to believe that a flood really happened that gave rise the myths about it found in various cultures. You can't ask for 100% proof for such a thing as flood that took place thousands of years ago. You can only believe or disbelieve. God is relational, and everything God says is true.

When scientists were telling the world that the earth was flat, nobody believed the Bible when the Bible clearly stated that the earth was spherical:

Isaiah 40:22
"It is he who sits above the circle of the earth."

Note that the Hebrew word 'Khug' translated as Circle is better translated Vault or Sphere.

Job 26:7 says the earth is suspended over nothing. That at a time when science said it is sustained by two giant elephants:

"God stretches the northern sky over empty space and hangs the earth on nothing."

Science has come to align with Bible over many things. Realignments would continue to occur as more discoveries are made.

Courz:
Yes. Their leaders are obsessed with having doctrines that are not Biblical and do not conform with the rest of Christianity in the name of being different from others. So, they do their best to come up with imaginations and then find verses that can support those imaginations. In the process, too many errors are made so that they keep changing their doctrines every few years. This is the price for not allowing the Holy Spirit to teach you. Their leaders have admitted that they make mistakes and are not inspired by the Holy Spirit. If someone makes this admission, you should be sensible enough to take their doctrines with a grain of Salt. But because JWs are brainwashed with fear and forced to accept these errors so that they are not shunned or disfellowshipped, they follow their leaders to the pit.

Their Bible is heavily manipulated to suit their doctrines. They have to do this so that they can mislead JWs. I just showed you a good example of that. Ask a JW to explain the Lazarus and Rich Man story by using the Bible only as a source, they will give you imaginations. When they pick verses, they don't read the context. That's not how to read the Bible. There are many verses that prove many of their doctrines wrong. But JWs ignore these verses. You showed several verses to them, they ignored all of them and kept presenting you the selected verses by their leaders. JWS are not interested in the Bible. They are only interested in the Bible verses with manipulated interpretation from their leaders.

Then, they're the enemies of their own souls.

It's foolishness to be loyal to a leader or leaders without considering the eternal destination of your soul. Why should anyone prefer lies to truths just because the lies were spoken by some so called men of God? JW is undoubtedly a satanic organization.

Courz:
FxMasterz, Another example of manipulation of Scripture by Watchtower Bible and Tract Society. Look at the same verse about the Rich Man in their Bible below. They went to put the word Grave but also the word Torment is written along side it. So, Fornicator Aemmyjah and Mad MaxinDhouse, I thought you JWs are taught that Nothing occurs in the Grave. The dead don't feel anything. So you say. Why is the word Torment in the same sentence with Grave? By manipulation of this verse , Watchtower is trying to tell you JWS that Torture happens in the Grave and the Dead feel something. Can you see why following a group of Men blindly will lead you to the pit?

Watchtower forgot to think properly when manipulating this verse because this verse actually goes against your doctrine. This is in your Bible o. Not only did they have the guts to put the word Grave when other translations used Hades, Hell and Sheol, they also forgot that the word Torment completely makes the presence of the word Grave useless. This is what happens when you become so proud and have the guts to change verses to suit your doctrine. There is no way that you won't make mistakes while doing this. This is why you JWs keep having your Bibles revised after every few years so that they can add more manipulations in it.

Fornicator Aemmyjah and Mad MaxinDhouse, come and explain this very obvious manipulation of Scripture. What does it take for your Watchtower leaders to just translate words as they appear instead of fixing words in there to suit the Lies they want to feed you. Does Grave and Torment go together? Judgement from God for this despicable act is doing press up.

Thank you Courz for bringing this to the fore.

Aemmyjah and Maxindhouse, do you think torments happen in the grave?

antiMuhamad:
When they grope your wife and mother, assuming they have money to go there, you will buy it then

Lol.

Holy land indeed.

Aemmyjah:
You're the one contradicting yourself
So continue

Can you please show me how I contradicted myself?

God didn't tell us in full details about the events of the afterlife. However He told us there few things:

1. There'll be judgement

2. There's hell and there's a lake of fire.

3. There's a resurrection of the dead, some to eternal life and some to eternal damnation.

We don't know if there's going to be judgement before the general white throne judgement.

But we know that the rich man in the Lazarus story was already in hell. We also know that Jesus told the thief on the cross that "Today, you shall be with me in paradise."

Aemmyjah:
I like how you ignore Rev 20:14
Can death be fast into a literal fire?

Revelation 20:14
"And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Yes death can be cast into literal fire because death is a spirit. It is called the spirit of death.


Revelation 6:8

"I looked, and there before me was a pale horse! Its rider was called Death, and Hades was following close behind him. They were given power over a fourth of the earth to kill by sword, famine and plague, and by the wild beasts of the earth."

There is the Spirit of Life, and there is the Spirit of Death. The spirit of death would be cast into the fire. After which there shall be no more death.

MaxInDHouse:
Death is the wages of sin means whether you're righteous or not since you inherited sin through Adamic sin you must pay the price.
That's the FIRST death.
But the SECOND death only things God doesn't have in his purposes will DIE.
For instance DEATH and GRAVE (Hell) aren't part of God's purpose so they must return to non-existent {Revelations 20:14} and as for those whose names aren't found in God's memory book for a remembrance of their fine WORKS will also return to non-existent! Revelations 20:15

That's the import of what you're reading!

This is Revelation 20:15

"And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire. "

You mean you have changed 'lake of fire's to 'non existent'? Are you not deceiving yourself?

So lake of fire is the same as 'non existent' '?

This is what the Lord Jesus said would happen there:

"And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched."

Does the above look like "non existent" to you?

Mathew 13:42-43
"The Son of man shall send forth his Angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity, And shall cast them into a furnace of fire. There shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth."

Do you mean when people are wailing and gnashing their teeth, they're non existent? So, non existent people are going to be wailing and gnashing their teeth as said by the Lord Jesus in that scripture above?

Lucifyre:
"If for instance you yourself never wrote a book, and you depart this world without anything written about you. Someday, your existent would be regarded as a myth."
I responded with the bones comment to the above, so uve ended up contradicting urself. Written history offers some advantages in terms of preservation and longevity, it is not immune to the influence of myth, interpretation, and cultural bias. See king authur, Beowulf, the fact its written down doesn't stop it from being myth, they blended historical elements with myth, so wth?!

Good so Noah wasnt Sumerian, so what culture was he from? And please show me sources that show his culture was the oldest existing civilization for his own story to come before the sumerians. And please i wonder the oldest writings in the bibl:e can be dated to when as against the sumerian texts?? As for why i disbelieve the story its common sense really, its proven fact and i repeat proven objective fact that a global flood never occured leading to loss of all life. Not the way the sumerians before you said it happened, not the way you said it happened in your bible after adapting their story. If u say it did, please prove it. If you say your story came first before theirs countering all the researches by scholars, please prove it. Objective facts and evidence, not mythology and myth. And trust me i know more about the historical context of the writing of your bible than you do but thats not even relevant.

You seriously did not ask me about what kind of evidence. Are u having a laugh or being purposefully obtuse. How did we find out about any of the examples in my previous comment. Im tired of typing but let me just highlight a few ways to educate you, you could read up on em fully l8r to educate urself better.  Geological Evidence - Sedimentary layers or deposits indicative of a global flood would be found worldwide, suggesting widespread inundation and sedimentation. Paleontological Evidence - Fossil records would show evidence of mass extinction events and rapid burial of organisms across different environments and geographic regions, it would be too numerous to be undiscoverable by now, abi nor be the whole world die😁??Genetic Evidence : Genetic studies of extant species would reveal patterns of population bottlenecks, genetic diversity, and phylogenetic relationships consistent with recent population reductions and subsequent expansions. Just to name a few , you have access to the internet right?!

Yes the myths prove something happened, did it hapoen the way they said it did? obviously no, from their implausible and even contradictory accounts like the noah story. The Aztecs believed the gods blocked out the sun cause they were angry with em and scarificed people to bring bk the sun. Did the gods block the sun cause they were angry?! No..  Did the sun get blocked... Yes. It was just an eclipse. Did they understand that?! No... So they explained it how best they could. Floods happen all the time, one's going on in Brazil right now. Ancient people on average were less travelled and much of the world undiscovered then, so if ur city's flooded its like the whole world's flooded and worst part u dont understand why, so u explain it as best u can. Basically the god's are mad.

If you say Drogon, Rhegal and Bealon the dread  existed, prove it😁. Afterall dinosaurs did'nt hide nau. Its funny you allude to the same science thats disproven your story but thats the beauty of science, its isnt close minded, it works on observable evidence to prove and disprove and when new observable evidence comes up, its open minded enough to accept it, not bendover backwards doing mental gymnastics on dem say, dem say. If i wouldn't just believe everything i read in this 21st century, why should i believe something written, compiled, redacted, edited, copied over 1500 year period with a lot of pseudepigraphy from unknown authors, Kafkaesque translations, different genres filled with contradictions and what we even have today's so removed from the original texts as they're copies of copies of copies of copies. Even when you photocopy something too much, it becomes illegible. Occam's razor man.

My dear, it don't actually want to argue regarding these things. But let me just say a few things:

1. In the days of Noah, cultures have not yet developed. The earth was just a few years old.

2. There can be widespread fossil deposits all over the world because at the time, there were just few humans. The world was not yet well populated.

3. Archeologists cannot claim they've not found the so called sedimentary layers of deposits they're looking for except:

a. They've escalated the earth deep enough, almost perforating the globe.

b. They have had several sample floods of over 4,000yrs old that made such sedimentary layers deposits to be able to generalize that such deposits must be found also for Noah's flood.

And please, get my point. When a story is passed down through the ages, it would become a myth somewhere along the line when the story has been so distorted that it now looks unbelievable. This applies to both written and oral narrations. If what's written or heard is considered to be something believable, humans won't call it a myth.

There are myths regarding the flood in a vast many culture around the world. The Bible records exactly what happened with great attention to detail, while the myths from different cultures sound like fables. There's clarity regarding the event in the Bible. We know how many days the rains fell. How long it took the floods to dry away, and the medium through which it was dried up. We also know where the ark was grounded. These are not mere myths.

The fact that several other cultures recorded the event proves it happened. Science can not provide 100% proof or disproof for an event that took place 4,000 yrs ago in the absence of everyone of us. They can only make deductions and pray their dedications are correct.

Courz:
FxMasterz, there is something I have noticed with how JWS quote verses. Watchtower deliberately picked John 5 Vs 28 to back up their Resurection doctrine. JWs are taught that the dead will be waiting in the tomb until Jesus comes to resurrect them. That's why verse 28 is picked. But they don't read verse 24 and 25.

In Verse 24, Jesus said that the righteous who believed in him will not be judged. They have skipped judgement and will be taken straight to Life everlasting.

In Verse 25, Jesus says The time is coming and The Time is Now, when the dead will hear his voice and come to life. Jesus is telling us that the resurrection has already started at the moment he said it. This explains why in the Lazarus and The rich man story, Lazarus died and was taken to the bossom of Abraham while the Rich man died and went to a place of torment. This is why Jesus also told the Thief beside him while they were hanged that Today you will be with me in Paradise. And there are verses where Paradise was used to describe Heaven.

JWs are not taught this. They are taught that even if they are righteous now, they still have to prove themselves again in the future. No grace. They are not taught that Resurrection is immediate because they don't believe they are going to Heaven.

This is why it is good to read the Bible. Don't just select specific verses. John 5 verse 25 has proven that Near Death Experiences are True.

Wow.

So, they do selective interpretation of the Bible to suit what they want to tell their followers. I see.

Thank you for reminding me that Jesus told the thief on His right hand that "Today, you shall be with me in paradise." That's a good reference for Aemmyjah.

Courz:
Nice one. Loving your points directly from the Bible.

Thanks brother.

MaxInDHouse:
The wages of sin is DEATH! Romans 6:23

If you have anything to ask point out the Bible verse and let's discuss on it!

This is the death the Bible is talking about:

Revelation 20:14

"Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire."

The lake of fire, that's the second death that is being referred - the wages of sin is death. Everyone dies, including the righteous, but only sinners die the second death because that's the wages of sin.

Revelation 21:8

"But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

The lake that burns with fire and brimstone is the second death. That's the wages for murderers, immoral persons, the unbelieving and abominable and all sinners.

Revelation 2:11

"He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes will not be hurt by the second death."

Everyone dies the first death but only sinners die the second death.

Revelation 20:6

""Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years."

The second death has power over sinners, not the righteous.

You've ignored all of my previous questions. No single response for any.

Aemmyjah:
OP is saying that people are always in hellfire
You're talking about an appointed time of judgment
You're not serious

God didn't tell us that there'll be no initial judgement before a general judgement. Take a clue from the parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus shared by the Lord Jesus.

22jumpstreet:
Just be pretending as if you don't understand what I have been saying..


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yweQt_fC0g?si=joODs5QQDoJJWj17

Please you have not said anything.

Kindly answer the questions I asked.

MaxInDHouse:
If you don't appreciate life everlasting then you and i aren't on the same page.

Perhaps what you need to work on is:

What evildoers will miss when believers are in God's kingdom?

Your questions are many so pick them one by one so we can discuss on each not just mixing it all up and expecting me to start typing epistles when you only need to study the Bible with Jehovah's Witnesses!

Please my questions are just one. I only asked you to explain some verses of scripture in light of your doctrine. You break your answers into sections if you feel like writing epistles.

The dead would not miss anything. Hope you know that? A dead man misses nothing. The death punishment is really flawed. It has no scriptural basis.