₦airaland Forum

AbuTwins:
So Google is our Qur'an and Sunnah?

Alright i will leave you in your ignorance but try and say this in public verbally one you'll be so disgraced by you ignorance!

My friend, the image of the mosque I posted was not built by Google.

Antiislaam:
AntiChristian the chief slave of allah here on nairaland is no where to be found again

Are Allah, Mohammed and their Quran easy to defend? The lies are too much, and you must keep cracking your brains for more lies to defend the lies. Abeg free antichristian.

Abutwins is even denying that the moon and star are symbols of Islam.

AbuTwins:
I don't know whose symbol is the moon and star!

But if you see them in the Qur'an and Sunnah you can show me!

If you can't then keep shut!

You're an hypocrite!

This is Taqquiya at best. You're denying what is generally known as the symbols of Islam!

AbuTwins:
Yeah, we observe the moon every month to signify the beginning and end of each month just as the Gregorian Calendar is based on Sun our own calendar is based on the moon!

What kind of Islam?

You are the one who is extremely ignorant!

You don't even know Lunar Calendar is by counting from the moon. Yet you are saying Muslims worship moon with your ignorant folks.
See the attached for each days as the moon lightens up!

YOU really need knowledge!

What brand of Islam do you practice whose symbol is not the moon and the star?

AbuTwins:
These are five out of the many examples of verses that have been changed or modified in newer translations like the Revised Standard Version (RSV) or New International Version (NIV) compared to the King James Version (KJV), along with brief reasons for the changes:

1. Matthew 6:13:
KJV: "For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen."
RSV, NIV: This part is omitted in many modern translations as it is not found in some of the earliest manuscripts.

2. Acts 8:37:
KJV: This verse is present in the KJV but omitted in many modern translations due to textual variations in early manuscripts.
And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God

3. 1 John 5:7-8:
KJV: Contains the "Johannine Comma" ("For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." which is missing in modern translations as it is not found in early Greek manuscripts.

New International Version
For there are three that testify:

New Living Translation
So we have these three witnesses—

English Standard Version
For there are three that testify:

4. Mark 16:9-20:
KJV: The ending of Mark's Gospel in the KJV includes verses 9-20, but many modern translations note that these verses are absent in some of the oldest manuscripts.

5. Luke 17:36:
KJV: This verse is present in the KJV but omitted in modern translations due to textual uncertainties and variations in manuscripts.

This shows how varied the Bible could be according to particular translations!

FxMasterz

Verses expunged from scripture do not mean anything to us Christians. The ones expunged may or may not be the Word of God. Yet, it does not in anyway negate the fact that the ones that are not expunged are the inspired writings.

It's the Quran that can be seen to fail using this yardstick simply because the Quran claims to be verbatim word of God. The Bible makes no such claims. The Bible was written by men inspired or moved of God into writing.

While the Quran fails woefully by having numerous differentiated versions of the so called verbatim word of God. The Bible does not live or die on whether verses were expunged or not. Each person copying from ancient manuscripts follow their individual convictions about what they think is right or wrong. As long as any word or verse exists in an authentic manuscript, we christians consider it the word of God. That's why during Bible studies, we study different versions of the Bible together to see the whole picture regarding a chapter or verse. The only thing that can easily cast aspersions on the Bible is if a particular verse or chapter was included in the Bible which is not found anywhere in any manuscript. If you can find such verse, then you have a point. But I can assure you that there's no such verse.

[quote author=AbuTwins post=129413280]

Has there ever been a debate about whether God is One in Christianity? Has there ever been any debate in this regards? More so Arius was a Priest in the 4th Century who believed Jesus was not divine. It was the council of Nicaea that turned him and his opinion heretic! If a Christian Priest could believe Jesus was not divine in the 4th century and that the father is superior to Jesus that means the debate was skewed in favor of the majority who thought of adding Trinity to the Bible as it can't be proved without ambiguity from the Bible!

Is there not anyone who at one time or the other has had conflicting ideas regarding the doctrines of Islam? Can we say that Islamic ideologies are screwed in favour of the majority who hold contrary opinions? There's only one God. And that's who all christians serve.

When you quote our text we didn't say you are an unbeliever and mustn't touch our text or that you need one spirit to understand!

But it seems you failed to grasp the import of what I said. We don't argue with you regarding your internal doctrines, do we? We argue with you regarding moral or scientific claims, historical facts and testimonies borne by your fellow Muslims in your hafith and Tafsiri. Have you ever seen us coming for you regarding your doctrines?

This is a false equivalence. Man is an entity. The Spirit cannot separate from the Body like Jesus, Spirit and Father exists in a Trinity. When God created Adam He breath the soul/spirit in to him.

Man is one being with 3 components playing different roles in his life. Of course, those who do Astra projections leave their bodies behind to attend cosmic meetings or do some sorts of evil. A man dies when his spirit and soul leaves his body behind.

While man cannot physically separate those entities of his. That's not impossible for God. Man is just a miniature replica of whom God is in His essence.

Can we say when God created the Father he breath the soul/Spirit in the son/holy Spirit? Or how do we relate this to the trinity?
It doesn't make any sense equating man to the trinitarian triune!

That's why you must keep within the confines of your Islamic doctrines. What you wrote up there is not the ideology behind the Trinity. It is jargons as best, and of course, as you said, it's quite illogical. That's not what Trinity is.

There's nothing like God creating the Father jargons or Father breathing into His Son. Your understanding of these things is to be premised first on some basic fundamentals about God. You cannot discuss Trinity if you don't really know who God is.

I said this earlier but you still fell into it. Read again below:

1 John 5:7 is one of the dubious verse and it reads:
King James Bible
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
New International Version
For there are three that testify:

New Living Translation
So we have these three witnesses—

English Standard Version
For there are three that testify:

Berean Standard Bible
For there are three that testify:

Berean Literal Bible
For there are three bearing testimony:

So you can see above that your trinity was proved from a dubious verse inserted by lovers of trinity among the early Church scribes!

You should expect the translators to translate in line with their individual understanding of the Trinity concept. Have you considered the original Greek word for word? The verse was not originally written in English.

AbuTwins:
This discussion here is about trinity. And we still await anyone to give us Directs proofs for trinity in the Bible!
You can create your thread on Kaaba as I did here and mentioned you!

Trinity is a doctrinal issue among Christians. It's of no concern to a Muslim except he's thinking about practicing Christianity. And you don't become a Christian by thinking about practicing Christianity. You become a Christian by having an encounter with Jesus.

AbuTwins:
My mosques does not contain those things! Why are you telling lies about my mosque?

But you still observe the moon for fasting. And are you saying the mosques that have such symbols are fake? You mean it's a different Islam you practice? Can you tell me about your kind of Islam?

[quote author=AbuTwins post=129406900]Fxmasterz

1. If trinity was proven according to the Bible why the need for credal debates and endorsements?

Credal debates stem from individual or group understanding of particular portions of scripture. The existence of Credal debates do not imply something is not proven in scripture. Interpretations are based on different understandings.

2. Since you claim trinity exists somewhere in the Bible can you please show us trinity without eisegesis nor exegesis! I don't need any of your subjective premises here. Objectivity is what is needed! And do quote Biblical verses acceptable in all Bible versions not the ones present in KJV and not in RSV or NIV.

This is not a topic for an unbeliever to dabble into but I'll give you some clues;

1. God said He created man in His own image. Man himself is a triune being (Having Spirit, Soul and Body). God, in whose image man was created would most possibly be a triune being too.

2. Frequent references to the Trinity of God are found both in the Old and New Testaments. The concept of Father, Son and Holy Spirit were found in the Bible and not outside the Bible. 1 John 5:7 reads: "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

AbuTwins:
Show us a proof from our text!

The altar of Jesus and Mary exists in the Roman Catholic churches. But that doesn't mean it is biblical.

This is why I always call you ignoramus with the holy spirit!

My mosque has no such symbols and so many other mosques!

Are your mosques a deviation from your texts? The symbols are on all your mosques. What hypocritical request are you making?

AbuTwins:
I never said trinity is the only topic that generated credal debates. I wrote it in the facts and background what debates existed in Christianity among the church fathers, etc.

Is it not being myopic running away from your topic and wanting to jump to our own topic? Is this what your jesus and spirit thought you of fairness and justice?



This is complete nonsense. You prompted me to create a thread and then you shy away when the thread is created!

I will also be discussing the Kaaba with Muslims too!

We ask Allah to increase your IQ and guide you aright!

I have only be looking at my mentions without knowing that I'm already on a new thread. I'll respond accordingly.

AbuTwins:
I never said trinity is the only topic that generated credal debates. I wrote it in the facts and background what debates existed in Christianity among the church fathers, etc.

Is it not being myopic running away from your topic and wanting to jump to our own topic? Is this what your jesus and spirit thought you of fairness and justice?



This is complete nonsense. You prompted me to create a thread and then you shy away when the thread is created!

I will also be discussing the Kaaba with Muslims too!

We ask Allah to increase your IQ and guide you aright!

I think you should focus on your internal credal debates in Islam. Right now, I'll like us to discuss where God is rather than who God is. Unprofitable debates about the Trinity with an unbeliever is useless.

You discussing the ka'aba with Muslims is useless because the issue of the ka'aba is not doctrinal. While I'll discuss other issues freely with you regarding Christianity. It's not wise to discuss doctrinal issues with an antichristian personality. To what purpose?

Ka'aba issue is not a doctrinal issue. You should learn to differentiate doctrines from history! You'll see that your prayers for good IQ should be for yourself and not for me.

Now, did Abraham found the ka'aba? Let's establish the truth here and dispell the lies.

AbuTwins:
Why not?

Start it personally and mention me!

Don't send your oga o!

Nice one.

Everyone knowledgeable about the topic would contribute. Who are you afraid of?

AbuTwins:
Show us the verses that states that moon and stars are symbols of Islam ?

Was it ever used during the Prophet's time?

Do show us?

My friend, are you trying to deny the obvious? Have you ever seen a mosque without the symbols?

AbuTwins:
Yes, I acknowledged that.

1. If trinity was proven according to the Bible why the need for credal debates and endorsements?

2. Since you claim trinity exists somewhere in the Bible can you please show us trinity without eisegesis nor exegesis! I don't need any of your subjective premises here. Objectivity is what is needed! And do quote biblical verses acceptable in all Bible versions and not the ones present in KJV and not in RSV or NIV.

Trinity isn't the only topic that generates credal debates you know? So, credal debates don't include doctrines. Of course, there are several scriptural supports for Trinity. However, the topic is of no use to you as a person. I'll discuss that with a fellow Christian who heretically opposes trinity.

Let's talk about Abraham and the ka'aba. Do you have any evidence or proof that Abraham founded the ka'aba?

AbuTwins:
Okay, we'll start a thread on trinity! How biblical is it!
And another on the historicity of the Bible old testament and then new testament!

What about Abraham and the Kaaba?

Should we start a thread on how you'll prove that Abraham founded the ka'aba too?

AbuTwins:
Fxmasterz

1. If trinity was proven according to the Bible why the need for credal debates and endorsements?

2. Since you claim trinity exists somewhere in the Bible can you please show us trinity without eisegesis nor exegesis! I don't need any of you subjective premises here. Objectivity is what is need! And do quote biblical verses acceptable in all bible versions not the ones present in KJV and not in RSV or NIV.

I said Trinity is biblical.

AbuTwins:
I gave you Qur'an verses and you're asking for screenshots?

Give me the verses that approves the screenshots?

Please I beg you kindly elevate your IQ.

How can any sane mind compare the Qur'an verses that differentiate Allah and Ba'al to screenshots not founded in the Qur'an and authentic Sunnah of Islam?

IAre the moon and star not the same symbols of Allah as they are for Baal?

Please be sincere with yourself.

advocatejare:
Muslims and demons share the same religion

Lol.

AbuTwins:
Nothing was salvaged bro!

From historicity wherein the church father adopted trinity, the books of the Bibles,etc. No holy spirit was involved.

Even till the 14th century when Martin Luther started the protestant revolution....

The history is a mess if I open it.

Trinity is absolutely biblical. If men lost sound doctrines, God can guide them to find it again in His Words. Christianity is an individual thing. A personal walk with God.

Yes, Martin Luther started the protestant revolution. That doesn't mean that there were no true Christians in the world even in his time.

Would you now talk about Abraham and the ka'aba?

advocatejare:
Of course, they know they are serving a demon. They lied that they are serving the same God of Moses which is known as Yahweh, yet none of Allah’s name is Yahweh

Yahweh doesn't have a moon and star symbol. The worshippers don't bleed themselves for Him. He cannot be confined into a ka'aba. He is everywhere you face. You don't need to face mecca before you pray to Him. Indeed they're demon worshippers. And even more interesting is that some of these demons are Muslims.

AbuTwins:
Where did I say anything was fabricated?

The "Baal is Allah" lies your were spreading the pics have you apologised that you lied against Allah and Islam?

Even the link posted by your brother contains the lies!

A congregation of Christian liars on nairaland!

Please dispute the screenshots I attached. Are the screenshots also lies?

AbuTwins:
You didn't even mention the councils of nicea and Constantinople? What about Athanasius and Arius?

What about the creed of Nicaea? The Constantinopolitan creed and others?

The gathering where Jesus was fixed to be equal with the father and later holy spirit was joined in!

Tell us the historicity in full as you can't do without the above named!

Search more!

Do you want to hear about what men did or what God did?

Didn't you read where I said Roman Catholicism corrupted Christianity but God salvaged it through some special messengers?

Do you want God or religion?

advocatejare:
Yes. Allah is the pagan moon god.

Ilah is the generic name for God.


Muslims know that Allah is not God, that is why their Shahada reads “no Ilah except Allah”

They know that Allah is not God (Ilah)

So, they know?

Interesting.

Ken4Christ:
Amen. Please can you message me on . I love to discuss a private matter with you. Thanks.

Done brother.

AbuTwins:
Stop responding to me as you keep showing your ignorance. You shouldn't talk at all if you don't know anything!
How do you know what is and what is not from our books since you admit you are ignorant on Islamic text?

What does Suyuti: Itqan part 3, page 72 mean? Is it an Hadith or a Qur'an verse or words of Scholars?

Suyuti is an Islamic Scholar!
Al-Suyooti is al-Haafiz ‘Abd al-Rahmaan ibn al-Kamaal Abi Bakr ibn Muhammad ibn Saabiq al-Deen ibn al-Fakhr ibn ‘Uthmaan al-Suyooti. His nickname was Jalaal al-Deen and his patronymic was Abu’l-Fadl. He was born in 849 AH and grew up as an orphan. He memorized the Qur’aan before he was eight years old and was active in seeking knowledge from an early age. He travelled extensively in the pursuit of knowledge, and went to Syria, the Hijaaz, India and the Maghreb (north Africa). He wrote many books on various branches of knowledge, including Tafseer (Qur’aanic commentary), hadeeth, fiqh (jurisprudence), biographies and history. He worked hard in compiling material, and because he collected so much, his books contain saheeh (sound), da’eef (weak) and mawdoo’ (fabricated) reports, and both true and false material.

It was said that he wrote nearly 600 books. He died (may Allaah have mercy on him) in 911 AH. Aamin.

You were the one mentioned me when I called your attention to what my brother, TenQ wrote. Even though I'm not knowledgeable about your books, yet you couldn't give me any concrete answers to the questions asked.

Are you saying that Tafsiri was fabricated? What are the proofs?

AbuTwins:
Remove the planks in your face before you come here to remove mine!

I have been telling you to discuss the historicity of your Bible since morning haven't you been running from pillar to post?

You will keep hiding behind him your small oga god!

Olodo Surutu Itquan 3:72 Ignoramus with the holy Spirit!

Smiling.

The historicity of the Bible is summarized like this:

The Lord Jesus came as promised by the Father to present Himself as a lamb that takes away the sins of the world. After Jesus left, many wrote different accounts of what they knew about God's plan of salvation through Jesus Christ. Some wrote to make names for themselves, others wrote as they were moved by God to write, and some others were instructed by the disciples of Christ to write.

Christianity was brutally fought against. Successive Roman empires sought to stamp out the church but they couldn't. These groups held neither guns nor swords but the Word of God continued to spread. The emperors of Rome killed many, including the disciples of Christ but the Word of God was not killable.

Then came Constantine who through dishonesty wanted to make Christianity the religion of the state. God used him to lay the foundation for putting together the Bible as there's no one God cannot use. Before then, Christians were already using some 21 books as part of the New testament scriptures.

Satan fought the light of the Gospel, and through Roman Catholicism, Christianity was corrupted. But God raised men like John Calvin and Martin Luther and several others who were mightily used of God to restore the light of the Gospel as we have it today.

It's a pity that mohammed came in contact with the Bible during the dark ages when the satanic corruption was still at its peak, and only a few Christians really knew Jesus. It is still the same thing today. Fake pastors are very many but true pastors are few. Many Christians are mere church goers who do not know Jesus.

The preservation of the Truth as we have it today is a great miracle that attests to the power of God made available through Christ Jesus.

Would you now talk about Abraham and the ka'aba?

AbuTwins:
You don't read that why you'll remain ignorant!

How many scribes does the Prophet have during his lifetime? Do you think he had only one?
And what does cramming mean? "study intensively over a short period of time just before an examination" What exam is he expecting?
Who was left behind? Just mention his name?
Who claimed he forgot the verses? Give references?
All the Caliphs were memorisers of the Qur'an and many other top Sahabah. I can see the list above. But as usual you guys type twice as much as you read!

What does Surutu Itquan 3:72 mean?

Your name should be changed to ignoramus!

You already know what I meant. You've read the verse I referred to. I'm not a Muslim and I don't read Islamic texts.

All were stating were quoted directly from your books. A book clearly stated that most of the quaranic texts were lost and that you should never claim perfect knowledge of the Quran. Your crammers also claimed to have forgotten some verses? Where's the preservation?

Suyuti: Itqan part 3, page 72 to be precise.

AbuTwins:
Rashduct4luv don plug the holes above!

Let's wait for the rantings of your Oga at the top!

You sabi tell lies but you get oga!

Why is it that you Muslims become militant when one is pointing the truth to you?

No one is fighting you or your religion. We're here to help you remove the scales of deception and enable you see things the way they are for the eternal benefit of your soul.

I'm sure TenQ would respond accordingly.

Would you talk to me about Abraham building the foundation of news ka'aba? Let's dissect this lie also.

AbuTwins:
The Lord of the Kaaba when Abraham raised it foundation was Allah!

The Lord of the Kaaba till now is Allah!

You are still a liar!
You and all your Christian guys including the website link!

Can you prove that Abraham raised the foundation of the ka'aba? Abraham had nothing, absolutely nothing to do with the ka'aba. That's another Islamic lies.

Can you see from the attached screenshot that an ordinary Google search for Lord of the Ka'aba brought forth Hubal?

Rashduct4luv:
From my post here in 2019 https://www.nairaland.com/5569177/wrote-quraan-how-it-put

No one said Allah didn't give a guarantee for preserving the Quran. The question is: Was he able to fulfil that guarantee?

The answer can only be answered by history. The history of how the Quran was preserved before it was written down shows that Allah didn't fulfil that guarantee because:

1. The best crammer of the Quran was ignored during the compilation.

2. Many of the crammers claimed to have forgotten several verses.

3. One Zaid went searching for a missing verse which probably came into his mind. Can we ascertain the number of verses that were also omitted why never came into his mind, and the numerous others whose existence he knew nothing about.

4. I drew your attention to a verse that actually says categorically that many verses of the Quran has been lost, and that none of you should boast of having the complete quran. I think its found in one Surutu Itquan 3:72 or so.

AbuTwins:
Bring your Proof!

This is not like Trinity which there is no proof anywhere in the Bible!

Show us proof Hubal wasn't destroyed!

Did you see the attachments?

Who was the Lord of the Ka'aba before Islam, and who is the Lord of the ka'aba in Islam?

Read this link below:
https://answeringislamblog./2020/03/20/the-religion-of-islam-the-reemergence-of-baal-worship/