₦airaland Forum

Maynmann:
So if If there are conditions before your yahweh can help someone then why is a pastor needed for miracle?
Even if the pastor is given permissions he is powerless except the patient has done the 5 conditions.


Who created men with their desires?
Who created satan?
Before creating man, omniscience god didn’t know man will be evil and they will honor satan?

But the reality is we have more bad things happening to us than good things.

When your god was ordering israelite to kill, will they be rewarded for it?

First, you've made assertions regarding my God, the Creator of the universe. Consider it reasonable to offer my answers from His book to show you what He has said of Himself and the clarifications He has given about the concerns you've raised. I've avoided quoting the scriptures since we started this discussion.

Now, if you are a father who has a wayward son that disrespected you. Engaged in vices. Spoilt your reputation. He then suddenly falls into trouble. Now, he remembers he has a father. As a wise father, won't you give him conditions that would make him rethink his ways? Or do you hate him so much that you'll allow him to continue to destroy himself? But a good child already met all the conditions. You'll help him with speed.

God's conditions are out of love to turn the wicked from his evil ways.

God didn't create man with evil desires. Evil desires is the result of spiritual death (Eternal separation from God). Right from the day man lost sight of God, he lost his Godly nature and took upon a satanic nature which is full of evil desires.

Ecclesiastes 7:29
"Behold, I have found only this [as a reason]: God made man upright and uncorrupted, but they [both men and women] have sought out many devices [for evil].”

God created Satan as an upright angel in heaven. He was called Lucifer. He was the most glorious of God's creation. As a result of the extras that God gave him as the closest archangel to the throne, Lucifer grew proud. He wanted to be like God. God sent him down to earth for his rebellion. Man was thereafter created as a punisher for fallen Lucifer. God put Lucifer under the authority of the man whom He made from dust as a mark of eternal humiliation.

God knew man would become evil and will honour Satan. God knew he'll fall into troubles. So, while laying the foundations of the earth from the very beginning, He made a solution ready:

Revelation 13:8
"And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him (Satan), whose names are not written in the Book of Life of the Lamb, slain from the foundation of the world."

Yes, more bad things happen in the world because Satan hates man so much. God created man as Satan's nemesis. So, the hatred is not unexpected. Man's error is in ceding the earth to Satan. Satan today is the god of this world. He distributes all the evils and bad things you see around. Meanwhile, things were not so in the begining. Man was the original owner and god of the earth:

Psalm 115:16
The heavens are the LORD’s heavens, but the earth he has given to the children of man.

Man is the architect of his own woes. Out of love, God provided a solution - the lamb Jesus. Someone without Christ would suffer defeat at the hands of Satan. Someone who has Christ goes from victory to victory.

The Amorites were a people given to idol worship. God wasn't even so much angered by that, since He knew that man had lost connection with Him. What angered God was bloodshed. Murders were being committed with impunity. There was too much blood in the land. The people heeded no warnings. They even roasted young kids alive as sacrifice to a God called Molech. There was sodomy and every kind of evil you might think of. So God decided to judge that nation by wiping them off and replacing them with another set of people. Before then, God had to wait over 500yrs for this people to repent. God is very patient.

While God was still waiting for the Amorites to repent, knowing fully well that they would never repent, He told Abraham in Genesis 15:16:

"In the fourth generation your descendants will return here, for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet complete.”

The descendants of Abraham were only sent to execute judgement against those people. The proof that God actually used the Israelites for their judgement is that, this people were all Giants. The Israelites referred to them as Anakims. They were also very numerous. The Jews, though short in stature and comparatively few in number did the impossible by dispossessing the iniquitous Amorites. This isn't ordinary.

God is a God of judgement and justice. He forwarned the Israelites to avoid commiting the same sins that He used them to punish the Amorites for. The consequences would be grievous. When the Israelites disobeyed, He did exactly as He said. A God of justice.

Maynmann:
Even your yahweh is under his own principle.

If there are conditions before your yahweh can help someone then why is a pastor needed for miracle?

Conditions exist because men are evil. They have no regard for God. They're wicked to their fellow humans. They serve their selfish desires. They honour Satan. Conditions exist because justice must be done. God wants to meet you the way He created you. He doesn't want any adulterated humans.

Justice in this context means you get what you deserve. You'rll not be rewarded for good things you never did.

Maynmann:
Why can’t yahweh just heal everyone in the hospital in the whole world, why does yahweh need specific names?

Good question.

Everyone is God's creation but not everyone belongs to God. God does not exert ownership on people. You can choose your own owner. But God owns the world, and He'll judge everything in it. You can't choose your own judge.

God has a principle: "Ask, and it shall be given unto you ". Because God would heal only those who merit healing. There are some very wicked fellows who do not deserve to see any goodness.

Hence, there are certain checks that guide healings. Someone who's suffering for his own wickedness cannot get healed without being first forgiven and mercy granted. In forgiveness, justice must still be served.

God is a God of fairness and equity. He must avenge the weak who has been wronged. Some sicknesses or problems are actually as a result of nemesis. Just as some sudden goodness are as a result of Providence.

Someone who has absolute disregard for God when all things were going well for him cannot suddenly call on God when trouble comes. God isn't anybody's puppet. A man may do evil for as long as God continues to wait for him to repent. One day, he would be visited, and at that time, no one can help him. Not even a doctor, if his case happens to be a sickness. So, not everyone can be healed. People die in hospitals every day. Not everyone a pastor prays for is healed. Justice must be done because God is a God of judgement.

A rebellious fellow must pay the price for his rebellion some day. That day, no one would be able to help him. There's just one day. It's called the The Day of Visitation. Prayers won't be answered except for a divine prerogative of mercy. Hence God cannot distribute miracles or healings just like that. Not everyone would be healed.

Sometimes, a pastor would pray for someone in calamity, and it would be clearly revealed that he's suffering punishments for some past wickedness. At such point in time, only mercy can speak for that person because justice must be served. God loves humans, and any evil done by a human to his fellow human receives a just retribution. God doesn't bend His rules because of anybody. He's down-to-earth. He's a just Judge.

So if God would heal a man, then he must:

1. Have a relationship with Him. He's not your standby generator.

2. Acknowledge Him as God

3. Live a life of genuine love for your fellow humans.

4. Trust Him that He'll do it for you because He loves you. God hates distrust.

5. Call upon Him, and He'll answer. It doesn't matter where you are or what you're facing.

If these 5 conditions are met, miracles come speedily. If any of the conditions is lacking, there may be a little glitch before a breakthrough occurs. And if the it's a divine judgement on the individual, miracles may never happen except by a divine prerogative of mercy.

Maynmann:
The pastor can only perform the miracle in the hospital.
He can’t pray to his deity anywhere and he will heal the people.

How do you “perform healing”?
You are making it sound like it’s performing a physical surgery.

I have told you different ways in which miracles can be performed by pastors even without being in the hospital. I told you how pastors can pray for specific persons by name from any location. Didn't I? Must I always be repeating previous discussions when discussing with you?
I don't know how many times I've done that today alone. And it has always being like that. You always want a discussion to become a roundabout whenever you feel cornered? Or, Do you want to tell me that you forget too soon? Or you just want to be disturbing me unnecessarily?

Thanks for your time anyway. Bye. I won't reply you again except it's on something I've not touched in the course of our discussion so far. I don't have time for such.

Maynmann:
What exactly is the physical thing like food thay the pastor is taking to the sick?

How you are able to relate this to a pastor staying in his home and praying to yahweh to heal all the sick in the hospitals to taking food into an hospital shows the effects of religion lol
If i go to the hospital i will be stopped, who is going to stop your yahweh from healing the sick?

We're talking about permission now. We only want to know why pastors need permission isn't it? Just barge in there without permission. Distribute food, money, drugs or even perform healing. Okay?

Go and do as advised. I'm done with you.

Maynmann:
When pastors are given permissions who do they call on?
Now that they are not given permissions, why can’t they call on the same thing?
Why exactly do pastors need permissions?

I don't know why pastors need permission.

You can experiment yourself. Take food to go distribute in a hospital to the sick. That's a good thing isn't it? You're being nice.

Barge into a hospital without permission and start distributing food in every ward. Come back and tell me how it went.

Maynmann:
Yahweh needs permission from the hospital lol

Pastors are humans. They're not Yahweh. A sick person anywhere can call on God in the hospital directly and be healed. That was how Kenneth Hagin got healed when he was left to die on his hospital bed at age 16. God does not need permission to heal if you acknowledge and call upon him directly. Human beings who live in a regulated world need that.

I can see that you fully understand all that I've said but you decided to unnecessarily drag the discussion, and I've given you the best of my time. You're gradually tending towards mockery. Laughing that I said Yahweh needs permission when nothing in our discussion points towards this direction.

Maynmann:
You don’t understand what you are saying, religion has messed with you.

Why don’t you go to hospitals and ask patients if they want to be healed, and what if it is a coma patients, your god is powerless against those?

Yahweh worshipper lol

To do so, you need the permission of the hospital. Yes, it's been done but not publicised. There are a few hospitals who grant such permissions. Meanwhile, you should understand that a hospital is a business place where doctors make money from the sick. Any other form of healing stands as a direct threat or competition to the medical healing business. Pastors respect that.

Maynmann:
Your examples are flawed, can’t you see what religion is doing to you.

So if you pray to yahweh now, he can’t help those in the hospital because you don’t have permissions from the owner of the hospital, yahweh is powerless?

I don't even understand what you're hitting at because it doesn't represent anything I have said.

Maynmann:
Pastors can only be met in the church just like native priests.

A doctor doesn’t need an hospital to operate, and he doesn’t need to be given an authority.
Before you can use yahweh to perform a miracle you need to be given authority from who please?

Jesus Christ!!

Please read my post again. I can't continue repeating myself. I even made an example of my home in relation to Tinubu. I also explained that a doctor can't operate in another hospital without given the authority to treat people there.

What's your profession? No matter what you do, you can't go to another place to do a job without being given permission or authority to work there. it's not a doctor/pastor thing now. Who doesn't know this? You want a pastor to enter a hospital and start healing without being invited. Does he own the hospital? Who gave him the permission to do so?

Pastors can heal anywhere you meet them. A simple words as 'Please pray for me.' is all the power and authority a pastor needs to start praying for you.

baralatie:
Person wey security dey monitor left.right front back and center🚴🚴🚴

Let them deal with the mad man.

This is the sweetest news today.

Next is the opening of southern boarders.

Maynmann:
Only pastors who owns a church can perform miracles, got you.

We're talking about a pastors place of influence where you can go meet him. I've explained how pastors could operate outside the church. All I've said is to explain to you what I meant by 'place of influence'.

Just as the doctor who does not own a hospital can operate where he's given authority to operate. A pastor would perform miracles where he's given authority to operate as well, whether he owns the place or not. Church or no church.

Maynmann:
The job of a doctor is not to own an hospital.

An owner of anything has influence on his property, thats common sense.
What has this got to do with the discussions?

Are we talking about the job of a doctor to own or not to own? We're talking about a doctor in relation to a pastor. And for justice, we can only accurately juxtapose that pastor with a doctor who owns a hospital because pastors usually own churches which I called their places of influence.

Even if the doctor does not own a hospital, he still has authority and power according to the limits given to him by the owner of the hospital. Still he can't operate in another hospital where he has not been given any authority or power to operate. In both scenarios, whether he owns the place or not, people go to the hospitals to see doctors. They go to church to see pastors.

Maynmann:
The doctor can’t do what he wants in the hospital, he needs to treat people that is all.

Are you confusing the owner of the hospital with a doctor?

In my context, I'm talking about a doctor who owns a hospital because that's at par with a pastor who owns a church.

Maynmann:
A doctor doesn’t need a hospital.
A hospital is just a building.
I don’t think you know what “hospital” means.
He is still a doctor in other places if he needs to treat people, he does not exercise any authority or power in the hospital, he treats people that is all.

You are yet to say anything worthy

That's still in tandem with all I have been saying. There's no contradiction between what you've said and what I said. I never said a doctor needs a hospital to operate. And I never said a pastor needs a church to operate.

Power and authority in my context is the ability to do what you want the way you want to do it without being directed by anybody. That's the advantage of her doctor's place of influence. That's why I clarified that in places other than his hospital, he can only advice or even take permissions before doing anything. In his hospital, he send a staff away especially if he owns the hospital. He has that authority and power. He can admit or reject a patient. He has the authority and power. He makes the rules. It's his place of influence. That's the same with a pastor in his church.

A doctor can't treat patient even in another person's hospital without the permission of the authorities in that hospital. He's a trespasser there. He could be arrested and jailed. In his own hospital, he can treat anyone. Outside his hospital or home, he needs permission.

Everyone has his place of influence. In my house. I'm the power and authority. Tinubu as president cannot command me on matters relating to my family. I'm the decision maker. This is my place of influence.

budaatum:
That's the problem. You believe instead of seeking with all your heart and soul and mind and being so that you may know. Same way Adam believed he would die if he ate the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, until Eve decided to use her own senses to test so that she may actually know.

In the Bible, there are two types of death.

1. Spiritual death. This is the king of all deaths. Eternal separation from God.

2. Physical Death. This is just a transition. A separation of the spirit from its body.

Spiritual death is the real death. This was the death God was talking about in Eden. Eternal separation from God. Absolute loss of contact. A termination of spiritual connection with the Creator. This the very death they died on that day they ate the fruits. The same death that runs in all humans. The reason for which people like you are unable to connect with God. Hence you say God does not exist.

When a person is born again, he has a spiritual resurrection. A rebirth. The connection with God is re-established. He can now relate with God and know without doubt that God is real because he has a relationship.

Dead people know nothing because the dead cannot perceive. It's impossible. When a man dies. He's dead to you and you're dead to him. There's no connection. Spiritual death is the ultimate death. This is the death that Adam and Eve died. The whole world without a resurrection experience is still in this state.

Maynmann:
What do you mean a doctor’s place of influence is the hospital?

Which pastor have been arrested for trespassing?

And why can’t pastors pray in their church and heal those in the hospital and mortuary?
Must they see who they are praying to?

A hospital is a doctor's place of influence because that's his jurisdiction. He exercises full authority and power in that hospital. In order places, he can only advice. In his hospital, he makes decisions. It is left for anyone to accept or reject his decision. That's his place of influence.

As there are universally active scientific laws for the operations of our world as well as the universe in which we dwell. The Spirit realm has its laws. A pastor cannot stand in his church and influence miracles in a hospital or mortuary except he is given specific names of persons or groups he must pray for. Yes, the miracle would be delivered to the target persons; but someone must provide those specific details.

budaatum:
Do you expect us to believe this?

Then again, you are not the only miracle worker here, I guess.

Yes, I don't expect you to believe anything. I'll only tell you all the truth I know. To believe or not to believe is your personal choice.

Maynmann:
A doctor equipment is not an hospital.
Yes, exactly if there are no equipments in the hospital, the doctor can’t perform maximally.
So How does a building named “hospital” influence a doctor?

Why do i need to go to a shrine before i can see the “miracles”?
Why are they not performing the miracles at hospitals and mortuaries, everyone is invited there.

If a doctor sees someone that needs help and it won’t cost money, they will help that person without been told.

Similarly, a pastor would help you without being told. He just needs to ask your permission.

A hospital is the doctor's place of influence. I never said the hospital influences the doctor.

A pastor walking into a hospital to perform miracles is a trespasser in that hospital. He could be arrested and jailed. Pastors usually go to hospitals to pray for individual sick people who invite them, or their church members with whom they have relationship. Most times, other sick people around would ask for prayers, the pastor would pray and leave.

If a pastor would go pray in a hospital, the hospital must invite the pastor. Otherwise, the pastor has no right to enter the hospital to do anything. He's a trespasser.

If you want to see miracles, invite a truly anointed pastor to your home. If a hospital wants to see miracles, they should invite a truly anointed pastor. If you have a hospital and desire to see miracles, invite a truly anointed pastor to your hospital. Otherwise, go meet him in church the sane way you'll go meet a doctor or an engineer in his place of influence.

Maynmann:
Same as nativepriests too.

Any building can be an hospital, we have hospitals on ships.
A doctor is a doctor without an hospital.

A doctor can't function maximally without his equipments. Whether in the ship or in the room.

A pastor is not a pastor because of a church building. That's just his primary place of contact and influence. He can minister wherever he is invited. Sea, air or land. All he needs is an invitation. The same applies to a doctor.

Maynmann:
Because the equipments needed are in the hospitals, ANYWHERE the tools are available they can do their job..
The doctor doesn’t need a building called hospital to do his job.
Rich people are treated at home.

Same as the pastors. They visit homes whenever they're invited. Rich or poor. But their primary place of contact is the church, just as it is the hospital for the doctor.

budaatum:
You obviously don't know how to seek until you find, which is no surprise since you forgot the title and authors name.

https://www.kirkusreviews.com/book-reviews/a/borden-deal-7/the-tobacco-men/

No this isn't the book.

The title of the book is Oren Knox. The content that I narrated isn't about tobacco men at all. I didn't forget the title and the content. I only forgot the name of the author.

Maynmann:
Why do i need to go to a shrine before i can see the “miracles”?
Why are they not performing the miracles at hospitals and mortuaries?
Who told you it is wrong laying hands on people to heal them?
Is it one of the universally laws?

My brother your god yahweh is nothing but a dummy idol worshipped by the Israelites
Iesus chrestus is a creation of the Roman Empire.
Bro please i don’t want you to die a yahweh worshipper waiting for a jewish man to be your savior.

Truth are not subjective, truth should be able to be verified and tested and it Will bring the same results again and again, don’t confuse opinions gotten from random books with UNKNOWN AUTHORS.

My brother, why must the sick go to hospitals so the doctors can heal them? If you want to know anything or clear your doubts about medical healings, won't you go to the hospital? That's because a hospital is a doctor's place of influence.

A church is a pastor's place of influence. If you want to Know or clear your doubts about spiritual healings or miracles, go there.

budaatum:
Yes they did announce themselves! Go read about Julius Caesar and see how a murderer and thief was glorified, though I'm talking way before that.

Even in the Bible you get to read the glory of the Israelites plunderings and rapings! Some of it was so bad that it never got into the Bible you now read, since they evolved and saw it as mortally wrong and left most of it out, though at the time their gods sanctioned it.

https://www.thetorah.com/article/the-rape-of-dinah-added-as-a-motive-for-the-sack-of-shechem

Julius Ceaser never commended himself for his evil. He was an emperor of Rome who did evil because he was a supreme ruler over his people. No one living a normal life would do what he did so openly and brazingly. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. That was Nero's case as well as that of several other tyrants of this world. We're talking about universally accepted moral laws. Even Julius Ceaser himself knew he was evil. Did he ever pass his deeds into law to be replicated by every Roman? Or did he ever preach that everyone should emulate him? No, he can't because he knew he was doing evil.

Israel in its formative years waged wars before settling down as a nation. Many nations, tribes and cultures have fought wars before they settled in their various communities and established boundaries. You can't use the wars of Israel to castigate Israel. There's no law in the Bible where rape or murder is justified. Quote the verse. Do not suppose that you're chatting a novice Christian. I'm very very knowledgeable about the Bible so much so that I'll back up a single claim with several scriptural references. So, be well prepared with me.

Maynmann:
Why can’t the miracles be seen by everyone?
Was Iesus chrestus or people in the tanakh miracles not seen by everyone?

Why do i need to go to a shrine before i can see the “miracles”?
Why are they not performing the miracles at hospitals and mortuaries?

There are norms in every organizations. Institutions evolve as they grow. Things that were acceptable yesterday may no longer be acceptable today. Such is life. There are cases where even governments have criticised and passed laws to regulate the activities of healing evangelists. Accusing them of practicing healing without license. This has happened especially in the United States.

Jesus is not like any of us. We're His servants, and can only go where He sends us, and do only what He asks us to do. Also, everyone has his own area of influence and gifting. Jesus carried a universal anointing. Nobody can immitate Him.

Yes, there are those who have performed healings and miracles in hospitals when particularly invited by the sick. It's wrong to just walk in and start laying hands on everyone in the premises of an hospital.

There are several miracles taking place as we speak. You can go where they're happening. Infact, you could do it as a researcher.

Read about the following people if you care to know more. Joseph Ayo Babalola of C.A C and Archbishop Benson Idahosa (There are live videos of him raising the dead at preaching engagements in the US and UK).

Today, people like EA Adeboye, W.F Kumuyi, David Oyedepo, D.K Olukoya, Paul Enenche, David Ibiyheomie, Chris Oyakhilome and hundreds of thousands of barely known men of God still perform miracles today. I myself have seen tremendous miracles through my hands. It's absolute foolishness and madness for me to be lying to defend miracles if they don't exist. I do not expect you to believe me but make a Google search on those names I mentioned. Some of them who have died, such as Ayo Babalola have physically verifiable evidences on several prayer mountains. Those who are alive have miracle hours they televise. If you don't believe in what you see on TV, walk into their auditoriums as a researcher. You won't come back the same.

God is real my brother. I'm not saying it for the sake of it. God is real. This is the absolute truth.

If you read the wrong books, you'll acquire the wrong knowledge. If you research into the right places, you'll find the truth.

Maynmann:
You must see nigerian politicians lol.

Lol.

budaatum:
Go back to the beginning of the thread and you might see my point.



If you studied the history of the evolution of humans you'd know better. We not only stole with impunity, we murdered and cheated and lied and raped too, until we evolved to understand how detrimental it was to us and society. It is universally accepted that stealing is morally wrong, but that does not mean some do not steal. But why is it wrong, you should ask.

Well, if I steal (your farm produce, or wife or children), from you, I'd need to stand watch over what I stole so you can't steal it back, which means I would not be able to go do anything productive. And if you do manage to steal it back, I might have to hire some people to help me steal it back from you. The to and fro of our stealing from each other would eventually end up with one of us killing the other so no more stealing occurs between us, but there's others who might steal from me after you are dead which is detrimental to all since it would result in complete eradication of that society.

Humans, being the thinking beings that we are, would eventually pass laws against stealing therefore, so they can keep what they have instead of having it stolen without recourse, hence laws you now claim came from gods, when in fact we created gods to make the laws more effective. It's after all more effective you being convinced that some god said "thou shalt not steal" from me, as opposed to me saying it, especially if you are convinced gods will punish you if you steal. Or perhaps you don't think I could be wise and smart enough to say "God said" what buda is saying. Do note that I do not leave it to gods to punish you for stealing from me, but would also pass sentence on you for stealing from me, which would not be the case if it were laws of the gods.

As an aside, Nigeria, as a society, has not evolved that far as to pass and enforce laws against stealing yet. If we had, our political leaders would universally accept that stealing public funds is immoral and detrimental to the society, and we the electorate would not elect thieves. But for now, ọmọ wa ni, so let them steal, unfortunately, which would not be the case if we adopted the moral laws of say China which dictates the chopping off of the head of political thieves, which shows how simple "thou shalt not steal" is not universal nor objective but very subjective indeed.

Bro, even psychologists are not in support of your views. When people murdered and raped and stole, did they start announcing themselves about that they're killers and thieves? But when a man does commendable things, he uses it to get glory.

Maynmann:
And even the claim i asked you to prove are when you claim miracles.

Are miracles that rare and scarce?

Miracles aren't scarce and are very common. But they're not like magic which you go everywhere to show off. If you must see miracles, you'll go to where they're happening. I gave you some references then, if you visit where they're happening, you can judge things for yourself.

Maynmann:
Still more claims.

But a sound mind is not needed to narate lies stories like this.
“ The book detailed a fictional story of how a young orphan boy rose into prominence in America. Starting as a cigarette factory worker at a very tender age, he went on to own a compendium of large cigarette companies including the ones he once worked in, in just a few years. The book contains rich lessons for Entrepreneurs. I was searching online for the book of recent, and to my amazement, nothing about the book could be found.”

If I were of the literary class, maybe I could have been able to provide more details. Unfortunately, I didn't do English language or any of its related courses.

Meanwhile, there's a Japanese book I read in 2002. The book was titled Samurai. I didn't remember the name of the author too, even though I remember the story. But in contrast to Oren Knox, the book Samurai is available online.

Maynmann:
What a coincidence, it is that same book you are using as reference that you don’t remember the name, you also can’t take a picture of the book, and the book is not online, no adult except you has read this book.

Infact, a friend gave me the book. And, take note of the year. It's 1997. That's 25 solid years ago. It would take a super sound mind to remember even the book's content, late alone the title and then author's name.

Maynmann:
Why won’t you forget, but you perfectly remember what happened in the book.

That's one thing about books. You'll remember the touching content of the book but you may forget the author. It's funny actually but it happens to all of us.