₦airaland Forum

@seyibrown:
You waited 1 year to get your prayers answered? That is laughable. I could done better playing kalukalu. I would have had a better chance of having my desires fullfilled inthat same time. Why wont you just say that it took 1 yr for the odds to work in your favour regarding whatever it was you were yearning for.? Someone else who may have had the same desire as you did, would have eqaully had the same chances of fullfilment without recourse to prayer.

From what most of the faithful have posted so far, one discernable fact is very clear: THERE IS NO CLEAR CUT FORMULA for having our prayers answered. Right? That is why we have ordinary prayers ,and special prayers, night vigils, fasting, seed sowing(LOL), etc. All vain and futile attempts to circumvent the immutable laws of cause and effect.
Even for the most devout, just try your luck and keep trying. If something good happens to you in the interim, then "Hurray", you give god the credit.

God does not answer any prayers. If so, for all our prayers,don't you think that Nigeria would be a paradise for every faithful by now? If god answers prayers, who deserves to starve, suffer illness, and death? All the unpraying athiest should have all suffered misfortunes and died off long ago. Our hospitals should be filled with the unfaithfuls. Not so?

Out of habit, we just give god credit for whatever good things that happen in our lives , and conveniently, we have poor devil to blame for all our woes.
I have no doubts though, that prayers have many psychological benefits for those who that do it.
However, the root of all human suffering lies in the agony of unfulfilled desires.

God told him to reveal the miracle of the $1000 seed! Hilarious.
A mumu is born every second. How do these fraudsters get away with this?
And why is the Xtian faith such an indispensible tool in the hands of fraudsters? Could it have anything to do with its origins? Surely, an orange tree cannot bear apple fruits and a vulture can never give birth to a dove.

Idiocy.

Knowledge is the only remedy for religion. It will take time, but humanity will be rid of religion in due time. Tremendous progress has been made in the past 200yrs in emasculating and watering down religion.All of what has been achieved in all areas of human life are thanks to emasculation of religion over the past 200yrs.The fact that churchmen are on the defensive is quite remarkable enough. In another 100 -150yrs., the memory of Jehovah would have long faded like other dead gods that litter grounds of history.Zeus, Appolo, Jesus, where are you all now?
A new study has revealed that 60% of US college graduates are less religious than they were before they entered college. This has become very worrisome for religious authorities because of the aging population of diehard religious faithfuls. Yaaaaaaaahhhoooooooo. Education is working(in this part of the world). For frosbel, sorry. No matter how much and how hard you indoctrinate your children, the chances are that your grand children are going to shun religion and all that you hold holy in your faith. Live with it. Its not going to be my faulth or stephen Hawkins fault or any athiest for that matter. Your grandchildren are going to be living in a different world where god will not be needed.
Africa, though, is a basket case because there are too many things mixed in the same dirty bowl, such as poverty, illiteracy and half of it, superstition, political and economic instability, ethnic tensions, religion and of course, greed.

Once again we agree. Our difference is that I maintain that parents should discourage it when the child is very young. That is their job as parents. DICOURAGE is the word. Put their stamp of disapproval. That would serve as a reminder and guide for the child, not as a wall. The child will speak and interact with pidgin later on, but only as a street slang.

Actually, you say you disagree, yet you agree.  i blow as much pidgin english as you do. there is no way any parent can prevent exposure to it in Nija. Exposure to it is not a problem. Parents discourage their young teens from having sex, but the teens will do it anyway. The parents do it to higlite and impress upon the teens, the dangers and risks of having sex, because  they are mainly concerned with the welfare of the kids.
I dont know where u live ,but most kids in Ajegunle and other areas of Lagos, learn and speak pidgin as their first language. That in my opinion, is detrimental.
I live in Lagos, and as far as I am concerend, the widespread use of pidgin english might very well be corrolated with the uncivilised and beast-like behaviour of most of the residents. LOL.
I Know that might be going too far.
Languages have character.
For example, English is rich and logical, French is said to be romantic and friendly, as does spanish, german is said to be straight and efficient, Yoruba is said to be rich, etc. The languages reflect the characters,strenghts or weaknesses of their respective peoples.
On the other hand,
Black American english reflect struggle,hope and a lot of anger. Jamaican english,Patua, reflect deep anger and resentment.Our pidgin english reflect ignorance, confusion and patch patch mentality.

Princek12:
I completely disagree with you. Or perhaps, I guess I must be from a different planet, then. I grew up concurrently learning Yoruba at home, learning English in school, and learning pidgin on the street. I speak all three fluently, and I understood the rules of grammar perfectly. As a child, I quickly learned to separate and not confuse the languages, for I thought of pidgin as a slang and thought of standard English as formal. I went on to study chemistry and law from a top university in the United States and did well in arguments. I got good grades both in my undergraduate studies and graduate studies. In addition to pidgin English, I speak and write English and Yoruba fluently, and I am currently writing a book, to be published simultaneously in Yoruba and English. Exposure is the key, my friend.

Your argument is good, except that I dont know what you disagree with . Are disagreeing wth the scientific studies on this subject or are you disagree with my own opinions.
That you spoke pidgen english and did ok in your acedemic persuits does not justify the use of pidgin english by children. I spoke pidgin english when I was in secondary too. I was mature enough and exposed enough, being well gounded in english,to adapt.
You agree that you understood it to be a slang. That is my point. Should you ground your young child's language skills on slangs? The question here is whether it may be harmful to a child's intellectual development. I say yes it can, based on the scientific studies on the effects of language on intellectual development.

Princek12:
True. But I don't think that the parents have to speak pidgin English to the child or teach the child pidgin English, as pidgin English is not a formal language that requires tutoring. I think that the child should learn his or her native language at home and take it as an elective in school at the appropriate time, learn standard English in school, and learn pidgin English by associating with people on the streets or through other informal means. I don't think it is necessary to forbid the child from speaking pidgin English under all circumstances.

I partly agree with you.
But must understand that as parents, it is necessary to forbid kids from doing certain things , otherwise they would asume such to be the norm.
Children are easily influenced by their environments. They would most likely show a preference for the use of pidgin english simply because, pidgin english follows no rules and requires no discipline in its grammer. While it is inevitable that they would come into contact with pidgin english, it would be an easy way out for a lazy minded child ,if the parents do not take strong stand against it.

Princek12:
You are implying that it is impossible for a child to learn standard English and Pidgin English concurrently? If that is what you are implying then you have not been exposed to "balanced Nigerians" like me who have mastered regular English, Yoruba, and pidgin English. Learning pidgin English should not dilute the child's mastery of the vocabulary of standard English if the child goes to a good school where he or she is being taught properly and where he or she is only allowed to speak in standard English. Learning pidgin English will happen naturally if your child is exposed to people who speak it. But to forbid your child from speaking it is unnecessary.

I did not imply such. I just stated what has been scientifically observed :that a language that is complex and rich in vocabulary(English,French, Yoruba etc) is much better for a child's intellectual development than a language that is broken down or fragmented(PIDGIN english or Patwa).

In essence, what image123 keeps repeating is that god is not changing, it is human pertceptions and human relationships with god that are changing. Am I correct?
If so, does that not prove that god lives is in the human mind and therefore can take the shape, habits, preledictions, nuances, and prejudices in the mind of the believer?
Could that explain why greedy pastors preach a god that needs your money, wicked pastors preach a god that is vengeful and punishes you, superstitious pastors preach that the devil and demons are out to get you, kind pastors preach kindness and love of god , and bigots preach hate for non-believers?

Image123 is trying so hard to defend schitzsophrenic attributes of the biblical god. It is futile because it is all there in black and white. I had problems with making sense of the god of the bible even when I was a child.
When pressed too much on these horrible attributes of a supposedly loving god, I am often told that god is mystery that we cannot understand.
If god is a mystery, then, is religion, not useless and irrellevant?
If for several thousand years of reading and studying the infallible word of god, we have still have so much inconsistancies and contradictions, does that not tell us something?

Yes , it is a well known fact that kids can handle more than 3 languages at a time. BUt, and its a big but, PIDGIN ENGLISH is not a language in the true sense of the word. It is a broken language. An improvised language that evolved to bridge the language gap between the mostly illiterate populace and the colonial administrators.
Studies after studies have shown the richness of the vocabulary of any language is directly related to the intellectual wealth of that language. Cultures whose language have a limited vocabulary seem to lag behind in intellectual prowess and achievements, compared to cultures that have a rich vocabulary.
PIDGIN ENGLISH is an improvised language with very limited vocabulary. Since Children tend to think in the language that they speak, a limited language would, therefore, have a negative effect on children's  ability to expand their intellect. This is not a speculation. This is a scientifically observed fact.
About 300yrs ago, a famous slave merchant, John Lynch, travelled to the slave colonies of the Carribean to teach slave owners how to create and sustain the perfect slave. In one of his lectures, he warned the slave owners not to allow the slaves to  speak the same language as they did, but advised them to develope a broken down and fragmented version of the their language(PIDGIN), so that MINDS of the slaves could REMAIN BROKEN AND FRAGMENTED. He further warned them that if the slave speaks like you, the slave will be as smart as you.

Therefore, it is not surprising that the colonialist adopted this logic in Nigeria.
My conclusion:.
PIDGIN ENGLISH is harmful to your child. If ytou doubt this, just take a trip to any one of  our universities.
Fragmented language=Fragmented Mind= Fragmented Reality

@Pagan 9ja:

Thank you

Yes indeed. Science negates religious beliefs simply because religious belief is just BELIEF. It seldom holds up to any critical analysis.The scienfic or emperical method demands by observation, experimentation or analysis. What is true to one scientist must be true and provable to all scientists.Whereas a religious revelation is to be accpeted on faith alone without questions or proof.

The scientific method of discerning reality has obviously proven itself to far better. The fact that you are using your pc or mobile phone to communicate is enough proof.

Enigma:
As I have alluded to earlier, the reason that the evangelical atheists are denying that they are evangelical atheists and denying evangelical atheism is very simple. They are ashamed to admit that which is patently obvious --- they are doing exactly the same thing that they accuse "religionists" of and are also now basically practising a religion. They may deny it till kingdom come: it is very patent on this forum itself and one of the protagonists living in denial in denying evangelical atheism is in fact currently one of the chief evangelists - despite being a 'newcomer' as far as we can yet see - with various ultimately inane threads.

Paradoxically, the denial of evangelical atheism by evangelical atheists is comparable to the case of those Christians who reject the appellation 'Christian'.

@ toba
Good job; well done.

What is there to deny?. WE DO NOT CARRY ANY BURDEN(BELIEF) THAT IS DENYING OR DEFENDING.

"This story doesn't look right and doesnt sound true ,therefore it is most likely false. I dont believe it".
The above sentence encapsulates what athiesm is all about. Interestingly most adult human beings employ this same common sense approach to everything in life, exept for issues of religion. Athiests DO NOT MAKE THIS EXCEPTION. That is the only diffeence.

To be honest, I really dont understand what these people are trying to prove. Whoever coined the word "evangelical athiesm "cannot be too smart. Perhaps they meant " Assertive Atheism".
I wish Toba and Enigma can give us just one instance in their lives where they have been accosted , proletized to or harrassed by an athiest, one instance in their lives where they have been handed pamphlets condenming their faith, or where they have been discriminated upon by any athiest or an athiest group. It would also be nice if they can name any athiest group that they know of in Nigeria, Africa and the world, without looking it up on google.

It is not good enough to label other human beings athiest simply because they refused to smoke opium, you now have to go further by adding an evil word; evangelical" to further dehumanise them.
You label people so you can bully them, then when these same people stand up to protest and  defend themselves, you award them another yet label and call them evangelical.
I'm glad , however, to see ,that you acknowledge that "evangelical " is BAD, whether its christian or atheist.
But If Toba, Enigma and the rest wish to maintain that athiesm is a religion or a belief system, so let them be. That would be another feather in their religious cap.I dont know how having no faith is now another form of faith.The least they can do for us is to write up our Articles of faith. We would appreciate.
They are just probably looking fo another religion to lock horns with in order to validate their faith.That is their tradition.

@ Toba, I said "IF" in my earlier post when I was refering to you,

Once again, one can see the evil hand of religion and superstition in this tragedy. Is there any evil in this land that is not religiously inspired or as a result of religious manipulation? See how some illiterate and stone age prophet or prophetess has manipulated a woman to murder her loving husband.
I weep. may his soul rest in peace

Where is(or was) canaan on the world map? Where did you get your information that Yorubas came from Canaan?
I dont how to say this without seeming rude, but I sense a case of Tokumbo mentality in your viewpoint. I notice that your are fighting very hard not to accept the Yoruba cosmogeny as authentic unless you can prove that is must have been IMPORTED from somehwere else of your choice. Interestingly, you chose canaan, I wonder why you did not choose arabia or palestine. For Yoruba history to be authentic, it must only come from outside of Africa, right? You cannot accept a truly authentic African origin of the Yorubas and Yoruba traditional religion?
I gues you have to read that human life and civilization began in Africa and spread out from there. You are desperately trying to link Yoruba traditional religion with jesus. How Pathetic.
I just cannot find words harsh enough to describe those who commit acts of calumny against their own cultural heritage for the sake of a used , worn out and discarded TOKUMBO religion of another race.
Mental slavery. SHAME SHAME SHAME.

@jayriginal:

Thank you for educating and enriching us with all this knowledge. I sincerely hope that Toba has got all his questions on athiesm answered. There is nothing more to be said.
If his motive is to learn, then you have given him much from which to learn, but if his motive is simply to discredict people who do not share his belief in his god, then once again, it would clearly demonstrate the convoluted logic of the abrahamic religiong, vis-a-vis: Intolerance in this life in exchange for paradise in the next life.

Today.

@image123:
You just admitted that the bible is not an exact science. That sounds to me like an indictment of author(the infallible word of GOD?). why would the words of an infallible god be inconsistent and confusing? And why are the words of an infallible omipotent god be sujected to constant revisions by churchmen(mortals). You can only revises or edit something to improve it or make it better . How do chruchmen make better what is the infallible word of god?

@Image123:
You religious people are just too hilarious. you always shout hat god created me and created everyone in his own image. God created white people, black people, indians, chinese, tall people,pigmies, left handed people, right handed people, ugly people as well as attractive people, right
Now, did god not create homosexual people as well? Or was it his evil brother, Satan,that created homosexuals while god was resting on the seventh day? LOL.
By christian logic, god created everyone with their different talents of traits. If god created homosexuals, then why would that same god punish homosexuals for being exactly whatgod created them? Is something wrong with god? Is god schitszophrenic or is it ur understanding of god that is schitszophrenic?

And by the way is there a hierachy of sin? That is , is one form of sin more sinful than another form of sin? for example, assuming that god forbids homosexuality, as well as forbiding fornicaton, lying and envy. My question is:Would a homosexual recieve more eternal punishment than a heterosexual fornicator? or a lier? or an envious person?

Pls answer:

Archealogy of course.
I think the bible(Genesis) can be better understaood and appreciated if studied from a historical perspective rather than from a purely religious perspective.

When I hear people say that Nigerians are intelligent, I always wonder what they mean by intelligence.

Joagbaje:
Adam and eve had another son who gave birth to other people.

Genesis 4:25
25 And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew.

Cain married from them. There was no Inbreeding as at that time.

How did you know that Cain married from one of them? Where does the bible say that? Or are just guessing? If you are guessing or speculating, be honest enough to say so or give us the appropriate bible passage. We are not children on this forum.

@jayriginal: You said best.
I get harrsed every single day of my life by people who want save me from i dont know what. I keep beliefs(or unbeliefs) to my self. I get harrased at home, at work, on the road, on the bus. i was almost forced to slap someone one who forced a pamphlet into my car despite the fact that i refused to take it.
As soon as u tell them that ur not interested in what they are preaching, the verbal asualts and condemnations begin.

@Toba, my good friend. thank you for puting me on your good side. I'm honoured.

Now let me ask you:
Just as you cannot understand how the mind of an athiest work, I still dont understand how the religious mind works. Why cant a religious mind be content with its beliefs and faith?. Why must I share your(not u inparticular) faith? You want everyone to share you faith, then what is the difference between the average evangelical christian and Boko Haram? Not much ,as far I can see. Boko haram uses violence , but I suffer verbal violence from evangelicals on a daily basis.
What is it about these middle east religions and intolerance?
If god exists as you believe, think about it, look at the diversity in nature. There are more than 10 million different species of animals and more than 50 million different species of plants. Obviously, god loves diversity that is why he must have created different people , different climates, different languages with different cultures and beliefs. No two human beings have the same finger prints and no two human beings see the same shade of colour. If god wanted everyone to be the same, he could have just cloned all of us as replicas of each other, Abi?
If god exists, then we are diverse for a good reason.

Imagine 5 billion human beings with just 1 viewpoint, and then, imagine 5 billion human beings with 5 billion viewpoints. Which, do you honestly think ,an intelligent and wise god would prefer?
Scientific studies have shown that societies where there is no diversity tend to stagnate ,whereas, societies where there is a lot of diversity tend to be vibrant and progressive.

I just cannot understand why someone who believes in something and happy about their belief should have headaches about those who do not share the same beliefs.
Religion is a mystery to me.

@Frosbel:

Psalms 82 states:
"Jehova sits in the congregation (or council) of the Elohim where he is judged by them".
they later go on to condemn and reprimand him for not protecting the weak and the poor.
" Ye are gods, all of you, but you shall die like men". That was his sentence.

This passage has been such an embarrasment to churchmen throughout the ages.They have edited and tried to reword this passage so many times in order to obscure the true significance and implications of this passage. In some bible versions, they have substituted the word" Elohim" with the word"Mighty" (?). Mighty who and mighty what?

My question for you frosbel: I'm pretty sure that you have never come across this passage before due to the selective reading habits of your type.
Can you explain intelligently without name-calling and insults, why and how an omnipotent creator of the universe would sit in a congregation to be judged by his kind (or superiors?).

Repeating what others have said, the bible is a book written by men who wrote according thier own limited understand and viewpoints. all the anger and contradictions you see are the anger and contradictions in the minds and hearts of the authors. We see the same things today. Every thief and pickpocket preaches whatever is guranteed to yield the most money. A gready paster mostly preaches about god's need for your money, a hateful pastor preaches hate against unbelievers(frosbel?), a humble pastor preaches humility, a kind pastor preaches kindness. You can see that the word of god(?) is like a liquid that takes the shape of any vessel(heart and mind) that it is poured into. thats is why religious faith cannot turn a bad person into a good person. It can only help that person to camouflage their heart.

The biblical books are also the abreviated copies of older books written by hundreds of different authors over thousands of years, and from different lands. Its a patch patch work. that is why there are so many contradictions.
There is also this false notion that the ancient hebrews were monothiestic(worshipped only one god). Nothing could be further fromt he truth. They worshiped a variety of different deities at different eras. It was during the later period that the priest of yahweh, violently assumed supremacy and enforced the worship of yahweh as their main deity.

People go to church to purchase delusions , not realities. The sellers provide what their customers ask for. The merchants sell an illusion of gratification to our deepest primordial desires, fears and prejudices. Failure is reality. It is not marketable.

Religion, any, all = Bad

"Humankind will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest"- -wise man

"They put a knife on the things that held us together and things fell apart."

frosbel:
Don't get me angry now !!

What is Neflim , what is going on here , is this forum turning peoples brains upside down !

When u come across something that is past ur level, why don't u just ignore it. Must you always try to drag everything down to your level ? If your mind cannot ascend, then be content with where you are. Its called humility. Only a foolsasumes knowledge of everything.
If you have never heard of the Nefilim, simply google it and see what its all about. Gosh. complex ingnorance?.

As a follow up to my last post:
For those who may be a bit acquinted with archeology, there is what is commonly refered to as the "Missing link". This mean that when studying the evolution of primates, there is a big gap in the leap from Homo habilis to modern man. To help u understand, this means that given the normaly slow pace of the evolutionary change ,the leap from Homo Habilis to modern man was far too quick by evolutionary time frames. A transformsation that should have normally taken several hundred miilion years, seem to have occured in a very short time. There has been no scientific explaination for this leap, and that is why it is called the missing link. There are theories, supported by these summerian texts that suggest that perhaps an advanced race of beings could have been on the earth, and genetically tinkered with the most evolutionarily advanced species at that time, being homo habilis, to created a better and more intelligent race , now known as humans. Also from the book of genesis, It is also obvious that the gods became worried about the new creature they had created.look at this stament,

" Lo, the man has become like one of us, knowing good and evil, we must prevent from eating from the tree of life lest he eats and lives for ever".

Such a theory makes a lot of sense and fills in on the missing link.
It would also explain why the early humans had incredilby long life spans. Breading with the other lower species must have reduced the life spans over time.

The book of genesis also states that " the Nefilim were on the earth in those days, when the sons of god(S) saw the daughters of men, they came down and bred with them".
Although these come from ancient texts, the fact that we interbreed animals and plants to get better quality species makes these theories plausible. There is no reason not to believe that perhaps an advanced species of beings from another world could have intervened and accelerated our evolutionary process.The seven days of creation in genesis could easily be refering to the seven stages or our evolutionary journey so far, which would make a lot of sense. In the original hebrew texts,days , years, and eons all share the same word "Sar". So 7 sars could mean 7 days, 7 years, 7 phases, or 7 eons(million yrs).
There is more to this topic for those that are interested, read "The Childean Genesis.

That Adam and Eve were the first created humans is a religious myth. many people loose sight of the fact that the book of genesis is just a short and abreviated version of a much bigger story copied from ancient mesopotamian texts that goes all the way back to the summerian civilization.
In the original text, the summerians wrote that Adama or Adapa was a special breed created by the elohim(gods) to serve them(tend to the garden). He was not the first, but was an improvement from others. But because the genesis is a plageurized version of the original, it is incomplete, resulting in the many discrepancies and incosistences.
The summarian texts expain clearly that the beings they called the gods, created Adapa by mixing their genetic materia with those of an already existing species of hominids."come , let us create man in our imgage and in our likeness". This quotation says it all.There were other humans (Neanderthals??) on earth before the genetic cloning of Adam. That is why acrhealogist have made the distinction between homo sapiens(man) and homo sapien sapiens(thinking man or human) . The brain of the homo sapien sapien is larger than the brain of the homo sapien. It appears that the two slightly different species lived side by side for a while and interbred. The biblical authors could not have explained this because they did not understand as much as we do today about human history.