₦airaland Forum

harakiri:
@dumbson2009. . . You are indeed dumber than a sack of bricks! Inspite of all the rational comments made by myself,tudor,deepsight and pastor aio, you still choose to argue blindly and in that brainwashed-half baked mind of yours, that's a sign of "intelligence". Normally, i dont bother replying trolls and attention seekers such as yourself who relish making baseless myopic arguments all day but i guess i'm in a tolerant mood. Please grab your milk and cookies, then read your bible with a sound mind while relaxing on dad's chair. Putz!

you are a proper idiot,and i can assure you on my worst days your single cell of a brain will never ,match up to my intellect.who gave you the monopoly of wisdom or rationality over another human being??
if you dont have any sensible comment to make piss off and slide out of my sight, dont worry i have been around intellectually inadequate ppl like you and i know how to handle them.
you try using verbal barbs,and put me downs to suffice for your ignorance,dont press my buttons or you will feel the acidic part of my comments cause this is just a taster, ass wipe!

@tudor
in your own funny reasoning anyone who doesnt jump up and say yes man i totally agree with you is going on a merry go round?looool
if you care to go through your comments you are actually stuck in the rut repeating the same thing at least i am making the effort to dance round you are standing still ignorantly resolute on the same points and then adding some half truths from your understanding of the bible.
lil busy now,i ll come post a retort to your newest offering from the stable of "lalalala im right you r wrong

Pastor AIO:
15you shall surely strike the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, utterly destroying it and all that is in it and its cattle with the edge of the sword. 16“Then you shall gather all its booty into the middle of its open square and burn the city and all its booty with fire as a whole burnt offering to the LORD your God; and it shall be a ruin forever. It shall never be rebuilt

Deuteronomy 13

english comprehesion sire the burnt offering starts from vs 16 "THEN" MEANS the action in 16 has been seperated from 15 so in effect everything in 16 i.e the booty.
the meaning of booty in the freedictionary online

boo·ty 1 (bt)
n. pl. boo·ties
1. Plunder taken from an enemy in time of war.
2. Goods or property seized by force or piracy.
3. A valuable prize, award, or gain

Pastor AIO:
30Jephthah made a vow to the LORD and said, “If You will indeed give the sons of Ammon into my hand, 31then it shall be that whatever comes out of the doors of my house to meet me when I return in peace from the sons of Ammon, it shall be the LORD’S, and I will offer it up as a burnt offering.”

34When Jephthah came to his house at Mizpah, behold, his daughter was coming out to meet him with tambourines and with dancing.

39At the end of two months she returned to her father, who did to her according to the vow which he had made;

Judges 11

and what was the action the father did to the daughter?guess in your haste you didn even bother to find out?? i have copied and pasted this article i found after a cursory google search maybe this will serve to enlighten you,

Did Jephthah really offer his daughter as a burnt offering to the Lord?
Did Jephthah really offer his daughter as a burnt offering to the Lord? (Judges 11:29-40).

To this one would fain be able to reply, as not a few commentators and others have done, with a definite NO. Their reasons and arguments have been so clearly set forth in a recent article elsewhere, that we cannot here do better than enumerate them in the order given. (1) It is pointed out that human sacrifices were expressly forbidden by the Law (Deuteronomy 18: 9-10). (2) In verse 31, the marginal reading “or” (of the A.V., not R.V., as stated) is adopted, as showing that two alternatives were in Jephthah’s mind: “Whatsoever cometh forth . . . shall surely be the Lord’s, or I will offer it up for a burnt offering.” And it is remarked that, according to Leviticus 27:4, a person thus vowed might be redeemed for money. (3) The daughter’s words, “that I may bewail my virginity” (v. 37), are taken to imply that this was the real outcome of the vow, that she was pledged by her father to perpetual celibacy; and further proof of this is found in the statement of verse 39, “And she knew no man.” (4) At verse 40 the reading, “talk with”, of the A.V. margin, is given preference to the textual reading, “lament”; and it is suggested that for four days in each year the daughters of Israel went to talk with Jephthah’s daughter. We may hope, if only for Jephthah’s own sake, that this view is correct; but there are difficulties in connection with each of the points mentioned which may not be ignored. If we enumerate these also, we shall perhaps put the questioner and others in a position to form their own judgment as to what really took place. (1) While there can be no doubt as to the Lord’s disapproval of human sacrifices, our passage nowhere states that Jephthah’s action met with His approval; and the question is not what the Law forbade, but what a man such as Jephthah, who had lived for some time among the idolatrous Syrians of Tob, might say and might do

http://gospelhall.org/faqs/bible-questions-and-answers--other/did-jephthah-really-offer-his-daughter-as-a-burnt-offering-to-the-lord.htmlsource;

Deuteronomy Chapter 18
9 When thou art come into the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not learn to do after the abominations of those nations.
10 There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch,

harakiri:
@godson2009. . . I have followed this thread from inception till now and read EVERY comment, so accusing me of not "understanding completely" is unwarranted. I'm also sorry to burst your bubble but is are instances in the bible where the biblical god accepted and even demanded human sacrifice. Let me remind you of two : First is ABRAHAM who went as far as preparing a sacrficial alter, tied his son and actually put a knife to his neck and would have beheaded the poor lad if the biblical god hadn't stopped him (whether he completed it or not doesn't matter. That was a classical case of attempted murder and the fact that the biblical god was pleased with Abraham's "faith" says a lot about the moral standards of this god). Second, is some guy (jehosapath or something) sacrificed his daughter (DINAH) to the biblical god after a victorious battle. So much for the questionable moral standards of this god. These examples would land people in jail with lengthy sentences in today's world.

this retort has shown you neither had a rational understanding of the bible and its different happenstances.thank GOD you at least agree that that biblical GOD stopped him from offering his son as a sacrifice. its really funny how you shot yourself in the foot in the first part of the comment lol
you are hillarious honestly if you think jephthah offered his daughter up as a human sacrifice then i guess samuel was offered up as a sacrifice as well ,the 12 disciples were offered up as human sacrifices
pls do not argue based on crass ignorance,you need to get a basic understanding even literal understanding in order to debate from an informed basis

Azibalua:
1. What exactly did you understand from your bible?

the fact that the bible verse touch not my annointed was not reffering to MEN OF GOD but to abraham and his descendants secondly we are all annointed men and women of GOD.i also learnt in the new testament that apostle paul said that if a leader in the church does something wrong,anybody can take him/her up on it by getting 2/3 witnesses and go before the elders to report

Azibalua:
2. Why not leave them to god since he is their boss,or do you think he is not capable of handling them.

no thats not the way it works,the bible said that "MY PEOPLE" not men of GOD,not the wicked perish for lack of knowledge,he also said that once we know the truth we christians then it will set us free this translates that you have been given the mandate by GOD to challenge was it not right.if you are in doubt jesus christ said we are joint heirs and his brothers/sisters,a little below the angels and we will be above them once we transcend to heaven.

Azibalua:
3. What makes you feel that those in need that you will meet are not already being helped in one way or the other?

is that what you call meeting the needs of their congregation??i dnt know where you reside now but anywhere you are pls go and look for a white man who is born again and the way their own pentecostal pastors are and i bet you it will be an eye opener for you.
i started to have a different mindset towards our nigerian MOGs the day i encountered a born again white pastor in scotland,the man gathers fairly used clothes and shoes for charity to africa yet he was wearing a battered shoe,i asked him why he doesnt change his shoes with one of the thousands of shoes and his threadbare jacket you know what he said?
he said every single shoe and cloth there is meant for charity and he will walk bare foot if his battered shoe gives up on him rather than touch the worst of the shoes.

[quote author=Mrs.Oyibo link=topic=627672.msg7950875#msg7950875 date=1300651061]I think that it will be particularly interesting to see if a child can be seen to be European Union citizen without actually having the right to be a British citizen, the mind boggles![/quote]as long as your child carries an eu passport then he/she has a right under the zambrano case.
@post
according to the law european union directives supercede domestic immigration laws so an ecj judgement will effectively curtail the ukba's power to act out of their own devises

not all nigerian girls are money conscious,its the one who comes from a poor or middle class background cause they are not used to it.a girl was born and bred in the midst of reative wealth or in the western world are always careful because they have their pride to consider

Azibalua:
I do not think the congregation is complaining . Why not find out the reason why they are not complaining.
The truth remains that what you don't know you can only assume, and working under an assumption is living a lie
So
Wake up

i am a pentecostal christian and a member of redeemed the reason why the congregation dont complain is because of the bible verse "touch not my annointed and do my prophets no harm" 1st chronicles 16;22
believing that by pointing out or highlighting these pertinent and disturbing events is like sinning against the holy ghost.
many MOG also feed this line to their followere and i use to be like that untill i went back to read my bible and understand it.
there is no assumption because these are facts which are clear,and the pastors are not even making any effort to hide it.
answer one question,if i walk the lenght and breath of canaanland on a sunday will i or will i not find at least 10 members who are in need of financial help or to eat three square meals?

Sweetnecta:
@Godson2009; responding to you is similar to responding to the wall because it lacks all the facilities of reasoning. i just wonder if nigerian christians even know that igbo tribe has home grown and abroad convert muslims, today? you surprise me with your post as if you don't see muslim millionaires and successes in uk that you say you live. Allah answered all my prayers so far as he Willed. i am confident that He will by His Mercy and Loving attributes as He Will shall answer my future prayers. i am sure dangote does not pray to the christian God, but to the muslim God, Allah The Irresistible. I said the next billionaire in nigeria will be a muslim, too, who only prays to [again] Allah. i tire for your 'unaware' post, thinking that you are responding.

this was my own personal opinion based on what i have seen and experienced,i do not believe your allah answers prayers nor tha fact that he has anything to offer.true dangote doesnt pray to a christian GOD maybe that is why he practises the sort of unwholesome cut throat business practises.allah is irresistle really i agree with you, iresistibly fake and confusing

Sweetnecta:
to the first bold, the answer is no.

yes he did,
Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them, amongst many other medinan verses and ahadiths which i wont bore you with your bredren olabowale and co(that is if this isnt olabowale or abuzola) will tell you i know what im saying ask them or check my old comments on the islam forum

Sweetnecta:
to the second bold you forgot that your mog nickel and dime everyone in their churches, poor or wealthy without any exception. you call it tithes. we dont have such a 'mint' in islam. dangote bought his aircraft with monies from his business. oyedepo bought his from donation of the church members. these are the differences.

you are right the only thing you have in islam are imams and islamic religious teachers who set up madrasas and quranic schools to indoctrinate and brainwash poor illeterate children and then unleash them to kill maim and destroy or to beg for food in bauchi,katsina even gambia.
at least oyedepo didnt command his followers to retaliate by burning mosques

@trex
lol no wonder,now i get where your comments are coming from in the other thread so you have a right to believe in some obscure phantom false occult but when it comes to christianity our own GOD IS FALSE ABI?

harakiri:
@godson2009. . . You appear to be someone is rational and cool headed in most issues EXCEPT religion. DEEP SIGHT, TUDOR and co have clearly pointed the hypocrisy in your arguments and you still remain adamant on the "supreme morality" of the biblical god. To you, it's permitted for your god's "children" to wipe out entire civilizations in their insatiable greed for land but when boko haram/al qeada strikes, you condemn their actions. Asking the opposing posters about their "gods" is tantamount to beating about the bush coz if you haven't noticed, there are loads of NON-RELIGIOUS people on here (including myself) so asking about their "gods" is preposterous and irrational.

its either you have not read my comments in its entirety regarding this issue,or you have completely misunderstood them let me try and simplify/break it down.

1.on the side of the bible and old testament-everyone settled scores by war,fighting taking of slavery etc
on the side of our progenitors in pre colonial times they also settled scores this way

now on both these accounts i have absolutely no problems with it simply because i know for whatever reason that was the way scores were settled not just by these two but the whole world.
if you check my comments i further highlighted a point which would seem to be a disadvantage to me which tudor and deepsight didnt even know/nor mentioned once i.e that apostle paul in the new testament in some of his comments also condoned/tolerated slavery.

where my problems rise and the moral of my many comments and preamble is that
1.the old testament christians absolutely did not offer human sacrifices at all.they fought and killed in a state of warfare. for each ocassion where this happened there was a reason either you agree with it or not. dont just read 2/3 verses check the exegesis and the conclusion this is the way to get to the buttom of an issue not picking up a few points in the middle.this is not to say i am saying it is right.

2.now with the pre colonial progenitors,they did not only do the same thing like i have pointed out above but they sacrificed human beings for the sake of several gods.
they killed millions of people in cold blood this is my main issue,
for instance can you justify or rationalise abandoning new born babies in evil forest to be devoured by wild animals, bitten from their internal organs by soldier ants till they died a violent death not by strangers but people who lived in the same communities with them greeted them not strangers.

cn you rationalise or justify using a 12 yrs old girl for sacrifice because she a virgin?this is not by strangers but people in her community some who she called brother or uncle.

can you justify burying several life breathing human beings with a dead king so that they can go and serve him in the after life all under the guise of tradition?
please do two things for me
1.show me where all these happened in the bible
2.justify/rationalise this for me
and i will accept whatever you want

@post
totally agree with you,in fact i believe without the holy spirit one cannot enter into the fullness of GOD nor acess the true and full experience of christianity as away of life/religion

@sweetcena
the point i was trying to put across to you is that it is perfectly normal and possible for a landlady to be broke,the house my sister was renting in lekki 4/5 years ago was owned by a landlady and several times the woman will beg her the tenant to pay for both their electricity bills,or help her contribute the lion share towards other bills they both shared sometimes she even dashed the woman money as in mummy help me manage this

i am not angry at her decision. she wants hell, she gets it. no muslim will tell you that he and christian serve the same God, since yours is the trinity. remember? Allah is the Only One Who answers prayers, both of devoted believers and disbelievers. many of the wealthiest people on earth today do not believe in God. Ted Turner who started CNN with junk bond deal, bill gates, oprah winfried are just a few of the list. the jews and muslims who will not touch your Bible have plenty billionaires, so are the hindus where one of them build a family house costing at least 1 billion usd. please don't make me laugh.

@sweetcena
dont worry we are both in agreement on that first line of your comment,i dont serve the allah that commanded his prophet to kill and behead anyone that was not muslim.
no sire i have not seen any evidence that allah answers prayers,so have many ,muslims in nigeria including alhaja hence their reason for converting and trying the christian GOD.
true and several people as well which includes the most powerful man in the world barrack obama all believe in GOD.
so you are now so desperate for companionship you are holding brief for the jews??/ ;Ddidnt your mohammad tell you to behead them and cut off their thumbs?besides they hate your guts and are closer to christians looking at their ideology than idol worshipping muslims.
how many have muslims built?at least you see the threads dedicated to igerian men of GOD buying several private jets and even borrowing foreign university money what have your own muslims done

@trex deepsight
just like i have called your compatriot out on a number of issues i am asking you the same thing can you please justify the heinous and vile acts of blood shed and sacrifice committed in the name of your gods?
i am simply not interested in you gys dancing round issues or going off on tangents give me a straigh concise clear and rational answer to my questions which none of you have been unable to or too cowardly to do.
bearing in mind that this thread was created to justify and rationalise your gods and their membership club i.e confraternities

[quote author=Tudór link=topic=440441.msg8364309#msg8364309 date=1305959362]Sorry, I have rearranged them. My hands weren't steady when I was typing then. No go back and read it.

Rubbish. Were innocent babies not exterminated in that verse or Not? Why are you complaining? Please tell me What Crime those children we're guilty of.[/quote]again is this a justification or a get out of jail free card for human sacrifice which has gone on through the ages?
like i said in my previous comments,i cannot second guess GOD in his infinite wisdom for taking certain actions,but all i know is that those actions at the end of the day always has intents and purposes.
*read my comments where i offered an explanation vis avis the census that david unwisely embarked upon even after being expressely forbiden to
*the massive difference was that this wasnt a sacrifice,it was a punishment and if you read onyou ill realise the people accepted itand asked for forgiveness.
[quote author=Tudór link=topic=440441.msg8364309#msg8364309 date=1305959362]"Secondly" quoting history to back up your assertions about african traditional religions means you have to believe not only the actions but the reason for those actions, How does this sound to you?[/quote]ok lets quickly rationalise it then,i have given you reasons why the incident came about in my previous comments including a short comment on it here now,lets try with your own
*gods that cant talk nor express themselves in any way shape or form are daily drenched in guman blood from head to toe as if that isnt enough they only ever ask for impossible demands like pregnant women,new born babies,albinos etc not only have they committed these acts in the past,they keep on doing so till the present and for the 70000 you have quoted there victims unwilling if i may add will have easily added up to times 1 million of the fig you quoted in the bible we could open a seperate thread if ou want us to look at the merits and demerits of both the bible and your gods incidents
[quote author=Tudór link=topic=440441.msg8364309#msg8364309 date=1305959362]What is this? Yayayayyayayayay, And the olden days of our fathers were synonymous with peace? And everything wasn't settled with the sword? Is that even an excuse?
You are just ridiculous. Started bringing up foolish excuses to justify killings.[/quote]even if warfare was equally justified in pre colonial times,even if slavery was also justified at least amongst warring villages and the victorious one took the other as their slaves was the wholesale slaughtering on human beings of different ages in honour of gods justified?if anyone is justifying wholesale human sacrifice look in the nearest mirror
[quote author=Tudór link=topic=440441.msg8364309#msg8364309 date=1305959362]Or you think the rituals and beliefs of our traditional religions just started one morning? They had reasons for killing twins or burying slaves too, and they are just as bogus as your own reasons for God killing 70,000 people because of Census.[/quote]if their rituals didnt just start off the cuff,you cant be debating in ignorance offer a sensible reason for their needless and pointless actions all you have been doing is nipping at my heels attacking the reasons i have adduced for the biblical accounts you cant continue attacking while not offering reasons to justify the actions of your gods
[quote author=Tudór link=topic=440441.msg8364309#msg8364309 date=1305959362]The amalakites were evil indeed. If you can summarily declare a group of people evil and wicked and exterminate them including babies, why can't other religions declare other people evil and kill them also?[/quote]summarily declaring them evil is lke judging by fiat,this wasnt the case they proved themselves evil by their continous actions which you can find in your bible.affairs were settled by the sword just like in the days of old before the white men came i have not problems with that as it was the way things were handled then,what i have a massive problem with which you have not bothered to offer any sensible or coherent explanation for is not only the "RITUAL MURDERS" in the past but its continuation even in mordern times.its very convenient for people like you to highlight negative stuffs i the bible but if you are asked if you believe the red sea really parted or GOD performed miracles you will be denying its posibility
[quote author=Tudór link=topic=440441.msg8364309#msg8364309 date=1305959362]The so-called Good people of the bible are equally as evil as d amalakites. They worship idols too, not so? And then kill children. Since when has idol worshipping being a justifiable reason for genocide? Were the innocent babies idol worshippers too?How someone thinks the best action to stop a tribe who kills its children is to come kill everybody in town and then help them finish off the children they haven't killed yet. That's very rich.
You seem to be making special rules for yourselves. Abeg, siddon one place.[/quote]what is the meaning of the term "good people of the bible"thisis where the problem lies you just cant gather several different tribes and religious persuations mentioned in the bible and put a single label on them its like ascribing the actions of the people of katsina,bauchi to the "good people of nigeria"without looking at the dynamics.
christians did not worship idols,they worship one GOD
christians did not kill children in acts of war david wiped out a group of people who were "synonimous"with evil and occltic practises.in this day and age he would have arrested and put them in jail like the government does evil and loco cults/groups but that was the way things were sorted then.
[quote author=Tudór link=topic=440441.msg8364309#msg8364309 date=1305959362]Wow. Who were the Jews worshipping? Not the same God? According to your story is not God = Jesus = same genocidal maniac? Since they were not christians why not discard the old testament? These we're supposed to be instructions from Your Jesus/God and men after God/Jesus' heart yet we see all this.[/quote]that is why i said you must look at the different dynamics.if that is your rationalisation then i guess i and the muslim share the same beliefs since we all worship GOD?
where did jesus come into this?
and yes as a pentecostal christian i dont subscribe to the old testament wholesale if you must know,what the bible tells me is that jesus christ came to "right the wrongs" of the old testament and even the beliefs i accept in the old testament is as a form of guidance it is the new testament i wholly subscribe to this is why i have issues with certain religious doctrines like tithes,youch not my annointed etc which is often quoted and regurgigated from the OT
[quote author=Tudór link=topic=440441.msg8364309#msg8364309 date=1305959362]If you worship Jesus you worship that same God. C'est fini[/quote]I SEE,SO IS SANGO AND hare krishna the same
[quote author=Tudór link=topic=440441.msg8364309#msg8364309 date=1305959362]This is like a Reformed Ogboni man denying the old barbaric acts of his progenitors and claim they were not ROF members till the reformation. You are just a joker[/quote]no this is like being sensible and not making whole sale ignorant sweeping statements,conjecture to buttress a defectively watery argument.im puzzled how the action of david settling scores the way it was settled in those days rightly or wrongly and the way africans too settled scores be adduced as a reasonable reason for completely barbaric,pointless and baffling human sacrifices.what is alarming is that you could argue that with a straight face
[quote author=Tudór link=topic=440441.msg8364309#msg8364309 date=1305959362]Its is a widely known fact slavery was CONDONED in the bible. Even "God" had guidelines on how slaves should be treated, captured, sold, inherited, how their childern can be owned like puppies etc like common property.[/quote]yes i totally agree with you,just like actsof warfare slavery was condoned in those days,even i will be honest enough to admit apostle paul in the new testament also made reference to slaves being obedient to their masters that is not the crux of this argument or have you lost track?
[quote author=Tudór link=topic=440441.msg8364309#msg8364309 date=1305959362]Slavery in its entirety is WRONG. When a human being is treated like a property its inhuman.

Fact; slavery was widely practiced even in the time of Jesus.

Fact; Nowhere did Jesus ever condemn it.[/quote]true,bit that was not what he came for,he had a specific purpose whichi could explain to you if you want but i have a feeling it ll be a suseless exercise anyway as you have your pre conceived notions so you see my dilema?if you want us to explore these areas of debate then a seperate thread will be an awesome idea.
[quote author=Tudór link=topic=440441.msg8364309#msg8364309 date=1305959362]Leviticus 25; 44 -46

The above is the word of YOUR Lord telling you to BUY foreign slaves (most of whom are prisoners of war sef or captured by raiders) and keep them as "possessions for PERMANENT heritance". Anyone who makes such declarations today will be arrested.[/quote]this is getting tiring,pls you are side stepping the main issues i have no time to keep on dancing round your side issues the main issue for me raising my shackles is a sensible explanation/rationalisation for needless and continuous bloodshed via sacrifice by your gods
[quote author=Tudór link=topic=440441.msg8364309#msg8364309 date=1305959362]Are you disputing the cannanites were systematically exterminated?

Deuteronomy 7 1-2

Talk about murderers. You go and Kill people including innocent babies their crime; because they inhabit an expanse of land which you covet.[/quote]in your haste to score a cheap point after going through google,i bet you did not bother to read the wholechapter,while i don not profess to be a pastor or a bible scholar english comprehension serving me right verse 4 of the same chapter gives the reasons for verses 1-2 clearly pls go back and read verse 4 and then continue reading what he also asks them to do by the way let me ask you a question
*how do doctors treat a tumor either malignant or whaever?then rationalise it with deut 7;1-2 make sure you read verses 4 downwards
[quote author=Tudór link=topic=440441.msg8364309#msg8364309 date=1305959362]So what? And the relevance of this is what? A human being is a human being be it your brother, sister or foreigner. The people of the bible maintained slaves. Thank Goodness you admitted its a terrible thing. Send that memo up to your God, he/she/it probably needs to know.[/quote]its quite juvenile trying to put words in my mouth abeg,this is an adult discussion where did i justify slavery??guess i should be asking you to fax your gods as to what they have been using the harvested breasts,human heads,new born babies cadavers,albinos ,hnch backs for?
[quote author=Tudór link=topic=440441.msg8364309#msg8364309 date=1305959362]Oooooh Right. The long and short of this is Your "God" in His infinite wisdom has the right to kill and murder anyone as he created us, right?[/quote]you are rambling now,cant make head nor tail of this
[quote author=Tudór link=topic=440441.msg8364309#msg8364309 date=1305959362]Well well, I got news for you. So does Allah, so does Zeus. The different Gods of African religions also in their Infinite wisdom Have the right to kill, punish and demand whatever sacrifice or payment.[/quote]here we go,at last we have your confirmed justification for the human sacrifice of new born babies,albinos,hunchbacks,pregnant women,men etc
[quote author=Tudór link=topic=440441.msg8364309#msg8364309 date=1305959362]If your God isn't a wicked entity, I don't see why they should be labelled wicked and pointless killings.[/quote]i have stated some of the points from my limited understanding severally i will humbly and reverently ask you to return the favour i.e sensible and rational explanation of human sacrifice, this should make interesting reading,pls dont just attack my own reasons which you have been doing in adittion in your replies pls your own reasons
[quote author=Tudór link=topic=440441.msg8364309#msg8364309 date=1305959362]Unless you can prove that right actually belongs to your yahweh and not others you are in effect blowing Hot air and Have NO right to criticise.

Why should we make an exception for you? The Gods in their infinite wisdom too requested people to be killed, Cry me a river.[/quote]is this what i suspect it is? a cowardly cop out ??i think not and i expect you will be rising up to the challenge above after all like your disciple deepsight has written you have proven beyond reasonable doubt lol
[quote author=Tudór link=topic=440441.msg8364309#msg8364309 date=1305959362]First thing, I have shown u instances where babies were murdered in cold blood in your same bible AS an Intruction from Your GOD. Whether you murdered a baby for sacrifice or as an instruction from your "lord" no one gives a mess, still the same thing.[/quote]first of all while being very very careful to say that violence and killings in whichever form isnt right,you should check the dictionary meaning of killing in cold blood, killings in a situation of active warfare including sadly the killing of babies is totally different from an innocent set of twins in peacetime without any external pressure being willingly taken to the evil forest and left there to die,i presume with the mother crying and wailing
*an innocent man who has commited no crime,who has done nothing wrong minding his business is kidnapped and killed his skin and head removed for ritual purposes and hs only crime/being an albino that is cold blooded urder
*a pregnant woman in a peaceful village/hamlet no wahala with any other tribe innocently going to the next village market,is kidnapped and used as sacrifice her crime?being oregnant at the wrong time that is cold blooded murder.
*a 12 yrs old girl coming back from school is waylaid and used for sacrifice,why cause she is a virgin that is cold blooded murder?
soplease dont you dare tell me its the same thing,its not
[quote author=Tudór link=topic=440441.msg8364309#msg8364309 date=1305959362]Make slaves of themselves? This dude thinks its only afriqicans that enslaved one another. Go read up.[/quote]simple question dont prevaricate,which is worse a stranger doing you a bad turn or your closes family doing you a bad turn answer
[quote author=Tudór link=topic=440441.msg8364309#msg8364309 date=1305959362]Women treated worse than slaves? Erm, what was the punishment for witches and wizards in your bible, pray tell me? Where women treated any better in the bible?[/quote]yes they killed withches and wizards and if you have done your research well,witches and wizards e.g jezebel not only physically murdered people they offered their own first born to the god of fire,to baal ashteroth and other gods
[quote author=Tudór link=topic=440441.msg8364309#msg8364309 date=1305959362]You think like a child, no offence. You think the atrocities mentioned in that book called the bible is all that there is to it? According to your warped logic the only people killed in the bible are the ones recorded.[/quote]of coure not but how does that explain the reasons you have continually failed to adduce which has been continually asked and you keep stylishly ignoring
[quote author=Tudór link=topic=440441.msg8364309#msg8364309 date=1305959362]And its also foolish to compare the imagine death toll caused by One tribe in the bible to the hundreds of thousands of different/diverse tribes in Africa. Do all african traditional religions practice the same thing? Where they all involved in human sacrifice? Did they all do baby sacrifices? Where they all burying slaves alive? Where they all Killing Twins? Did the sango worshipper kill twins? Did the mgwali worshipper in arua village bury slaves alive?[/quote]yes majority if not all of the african traditional worshippers in different ways all had gods who they had to offer human sacrifices to and even beyond the shores of africa to south america
the albino ritual sacrifice transends west africa to central africa
human rituals transends west africa to east and central africa all the way to egypt
in the pre colonial egypt there was a different god at the top of every street and i could certainly mention some egyptian gods who drank human blood regularly
so your point is moot im afraid
[quote author=Tudór link=topic=440441.msg8364309#msg8364309 date=1305959362]Talk about " rationalise the decimation ignorance bloodshed slavery they broughtand perpetuated", Fact is, Your God brought same in the OT, Your weak attempts to justify them nonetheless.[/quote]i ll ask fot the umpeenth time,is the acts in the 1st chronicles a fair justification for the above mentioned heinous acts by your god?never mind the documented and well known and accepted facts that the old testament just like pre colonial africa thngs were settled amongst nations countries tribes villages differently to now
[quote author=Tudór link=topic=440441.msg8364309#msg8364309 date=1305959362]Your Religious History is very much as DIRTY as any african religion out there. I repeat, YOU HAVE NO MORAL GROUND to condemn.[/quote]all you have done is to google and pick of random and isolated handful of incidents which were justified amongst those people by reason of their beliefs and their willing acceptance of the punishment and asking for the forgiveness of their sins.
moreover the instances you have given WERE IN A STATE OF WARFARE it is totally different from COLD BLOODED MURDER

[quote author=Tudór link=topic=440441.msg8363919#msg8363919 date=1305951749]Again you keep denying the "deeds". Words eh. Blood was shed as " commanded", "prophesied" and "planned". 2000 years ago. As "payment" for Sins and for mercy. The DEED was done.[/quote]you r mixing up two totally different events leading to totally intent and purpose in the bible just to achieve your own desired conclusion doesnt work that way.
the old testament examples you gave and the new testament,jesus christ and 2000 years is like comparing boli(roasted plantain)and roasted corn.the fact that they book appear to look alike doesnt make them the same
[quote author=Tudór link=topic=440441.msg8363919#msg8363919 date=1305951749]We are talking about principle here. If your God is allowed to accept Human blood (as was shed on calvary) as atonement for "sins" why the hell shouldn't the next God on mount Olympus do the same?[/quote]the difference is that my own GOD is accepting only the blood of his son,not your son ormy daughter or anyone else's innocent family member.ersthwhile in the old testament the only blood he accepted in sacrifice was the blood of bulls and bullocks,birds and suchlike your own god accepts the blood of humans routinely,the blood of new born babies,pregnant women,hunch back,albinos  see the difference?
[quote author=Tudór link=topic=440441.msg8363919#msg8363919 date=1305951749]What is this? What does it matter if he was killed by aliens? Fact it is claimed his purpose here on earth was to DIE for YOU aka INCLUDING CHRISTIANS, it isn't supposed to matter who pulled the trigger him , according to your teachings YOU did. With your SINS.[/quote]for the purpose of this thread even if i were to accept that still doesnt change the fact that my GOD accepts only animal sacrifice,and the onl person that was killed was his own son who actually rose again and was transfigured and went back to his daddy.i dont see the murdered victims of your gods rising up or them willingly dieing for the gods in almost all cases they are forced
[quote author=Tudór link=topic=440441.msg8363919#msg8363919 date=1305951749]The important fact here is Human blood was shed for your sins. So it was planned by your God from the beginning.[/quote]one question,does this justify the millions of inocent victims which includes the afore mentioned who have been murdered in cold blood??
[quote author=Tudór link=topic=440441.msg8363919#msg8363919 date=1305951749]He does not require blood sacrifice yet he orchestrates the coming and killing of a human as atonement for sins. If he does not require it, why accept it in the first place? Why send the son to earth? Why not send his only begotten goat, cow or donkey?[/quote]maybe because the power to give life to the begotten son,goat or cow is reposed with him so buttom line whoever he sends would have risen up anyway,besides the remission of sin wold not have carried the same weight or gravity if he hd sent a goat,cow or donkey cause im sure ppl like you would have asked why he didnt send his only son if he loved us that much
[quote author=Tudór link=topic=440441.msg8363919#msg8363919 date=1305951749]Fact; YOUR GOD accepted Human sacrifice for atonement of Sins. That is the principle we are working with here.[/quote]he accepted the sacrifice OF HIS SON FINITO!the son who rose again after the 3rd day and went back to his daddy
[quote author=Tudór link=topic=440441.msg8363919#msg8363919 date=1305951749]This is ridiculous. Firstly how was Jesus a victim? Why did he come to earth? Severally when he alluded to a purpose what was it, to come and turn water into wine? In your fit to wring yourself out of your contradictions you are just making terrible Blunders, Did the Jews really have a choice? Something which had been prophesied and designed by God and yet jesus is the victim here?[/quote]jesus christ was a victim when you look at the circumstances of his death i.e via the jews.an innocent man unfairly judged and killed by jews,pharisees etc because they believed he was making wrong assertions so where is your blunder or contradiction?
besides as i have said severally,it was a one off compared to the ritual killing to your gods still goingon today
he willingly without any cohersion gave himself can you say the same for the woman whose breasts,private part and head were cut off and left under a bridge in lagos?
can you say the same fr the hunchback killed and his hunch back cut off and left in an uncompleted building or the albino killed and skinned to be used for a cream to be aplied by politicians to win votes?
all mementoes of your gods
[quote author=Tudór link=topic=440441.msg8363919#msg8363919 date=1305951749]A family that orchestrates the murder of a son to atone for debt owed to them by others is a psychopathic family and should all be in jail.[/quote]no,an error on your part,a father who sent his son to die for the sins of billions of his other children and then gave the son back his life and called him back home the day your gods start to give back life to the millions of inncent victim you have my vote i will be a faithful devotee for life in fact i might even register for a crach course in babalawo or sango priest training
[quote author=Tudór link=topic=440441.msg8363919#msg8363919 date=1305951749]No. I'm not rationalising anything. I am just telling you to get off your high-horse and stop raising up your own faith like its any cleaner or christianity is any better when your foundations are as rotten. Your hands are dirty too. Don't be a self-contradicting Hypocrite.[/quote]you still are yet to show me where christianity has advocated for the killing of innocent people or human sacrifice you keep on harping on jesus christ dieing as a sacrifice and using this as a reason to justify millions of barbaric and mind boggling blodsheds by ignorant and sadistic illiterates in the name of worshipping or appeasing gods.
there is a reason why every government in the world will allow churches and mosques to practise unmolested but not your neighbourhood babalawo or priest to continue human sacrifice openly,

@tudor
your comments are not arranged properly so it makes difficult reading and comprehension but i will try and take your points briefly one after the other

you gave the bible verse of 1st samuel 15;3 to back up your assertions,however you picked up a couple of verses out of a whole chapter just so you can back up your points,its like saying obama is in the same league as hitler for ordering the bombing of bin laden's hideout in abotabad without looking at the general context.secondly quoting from the bible to back up your assertions means you have to believe not only the actions but the reasons for those actions.

1.the old testament was a state of warfare and everything was settled with the sword,if you check the history of the amalekites from genesis you will realise that they were synonimous with evil,idol worshipping,they not only worshipped the sun gods etc they sacrificed their children to the gods etc
besides they were not christians at that stage those were jews.i hope you realise there is a massive difference between JEWS AND CHRISTIANS, the fact that the accounts are in the bible doesnt make them christians .

when you assert,do so with proof not hear say and conjecture,where in the bible did GOD condone slavery?? you mentioned the canaanites generally without any backing for a serious assertion show me where CHRISTIANS IN THE BIBLE killed people in cold blood!

its really grand of you to admit slavery is an heinous act,bringing me to a question i shuld ask you which is worse
white people enslaving us,or our own fore fathers not only enslaving each other,but betraying and selling their fellow nigerians to the white slave traders or did you think the portuguese,british slave traders just happened upon them in the bush,captured them and put them on boats?

while i cannot guage or rationalise the actions of GOD as he acts the way he wants in his infinite wisdom,you should go back and check the very first verse of the 1st chronicles 21 for the exegesis then go on to look closely at verses 11-13 they were given choices of punishment and by the way im sure you know what collective responsibility/punishment means, it is still practised in the army and other forces if one person does something wrong,the whole platoon was punished
the rationale of the 70,000 people killed was that he the lord  that expressely forbade anyone from doing a census in the first place the alpha and the omega would show his greatness by rendering the census david stubbornly did ineffective,remember he owns us,he created us and we are still going back to him.

and even with a handsful of incidents which was perpetuated by jews in a state of warfare in the old testament im at aloss how anyone will compare this to the level and quantum of continuous bloodshed that went on in african in the pre colonial times not only did they do the same thing you pointed out in the bible amongst each other,they went further to make slaves of themselves and then in adittion human and babies sacrifice which im suprised you didnt even mention and show me where that was in the bible and lastly its not only christian missionaries who did but what they went through doing what they did not only liberated the most vulnerable in african society i.e women who were treated worse than slaves,twin babies,so called witches and wizards on the say so of a "medicine man" continous human sacrifice.
have you seen the movie apocalypto,hope you realise its a true story?

you have a right to your african traditional believes but dont rationalise the decimation ignorance bloodshed slavery they broughtand perpetuated in africa pre colonial times,it is nothing compared to either the bible nor the quran do a quick census of how many gods only amongst the yorubas,ibos,and other tribes and then imagine the quantum of innocent souls that have been slaughtered enuff said!

[quote author=Tudór link=topic=440441.msg8362873#msg8362873 date=1305931813]Russian Roulette ko, Chinese Chopsticks ni.

Nothing to lose? Those fukers shot my unarmed friend who was lying face down in the back TWICE.

We saw their faces very clearly. They just 'attemptedmurdered' my friend and took me away you think they gonna leave witnesses around?

I would still have been shot if I disabled my car security. I anit friggin losing both ways so I thought. I'd rather die fighting with dignity than being robbed like a fool and shot nonetheless.

Just seeing my car there alone gave me joy which at that moment felt like the most euphoric feeling of happiness I've ever had in my life. Don't worry , you'll never understand until you are there.[/quote]well good for you,im not playing hardball wth some drugged up and crazed nuifn to lose nigerian armed robbers, even nigeria police that accosted me sriving in a brand new honda i left the car for them and took the next cab home,i cherish and respect every part of my body

lol

kemisuga:
Tu nes pas cerious

are you @ weddings on sats alone?
btw u r fine o

[quote author=tpia@ link=topic=670342.msg8356161#msg8356161 date=1305854932]@ godson2009

i find it very hard to believe a deeper lifer knowingly married an alhaji or even an outright muslim when strict deeper lifers have problems even marrying other denominations.

At least back in the day.

Did the lady involved join deeper after marriage? [/quote]while i wholeheartedly agree with you,cause i found it hard to believe when she told me at first aswell but one thing that was obvious between them is that they loved each other even till now the essence of my preamble real undalterated love will always triumph over any obstacle and deeper life isnt like it used to be o,i know some deeper life churches here in uk that their fashion sense is a slight departure from the trad deeper life dressing

Sweetnecta:
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ but you forgot that your biblical say in many verses, both old and new testaments that the believes [christians in this case] should not marry or even be as simple as 'being unyoked' with disbeliever [disbeliever in this case are people like muslims, non christians] who in the book of titus is called 'infidel'.

the bible was making reference to unbelievers strictly as sinners,there is nowhere the bible said dont marry muslims or hindus etc
your mohammad on the other hand enjoins you not to have anything to do with jews christians either they are holy or not the idea of infidel in the book of titus you have quoted is sinners people who are evil which has nothing to do with their religious persuations unlike islam

i tire o ,so being a landlady anytime she is broke she will go and extort her tenants after they have paid the agreed rent!!
@sweetcena
are you angry because GOD answered the woman's prayers or because her prayers were answered via a christian?being an alhaja she would have tried your hadiths and it didnt work for her before giving the christian way a trial and it worked to the extent of her giving the man some money to say thank you.i though you muslims always said we all serve one GOD so why r you jealouse of the slhaja's salvation lol

you forgot to add that that some of them spend mone on charity and actually have more christin values by their charitable givings than most of our MOGS

JeSoul:
^and we don't know they wouldn't have gone ahead and shot her anyways and the fact they still didn't even take the car after they'd shot her down supports that. Unless you're actually in the situation one can't really say what was the 'best' thing to do.

i dont know if you r nigerian or not but i beg you in the name of GOD no matter how expensive your car is or the amount of money or valuables you have on you pls surrender everything to an armed robber i have not had the experience but my parents have and other ppl i know and i can tell you there is absolutely nothing that is as valuable as one's life.
she said in the comment above that they asked her to disable the security and she refused to they probably left the car due to this reason,if they are not hired killers the only objective of an armed robber is to take one's valuables and to neutralize any obstacle in their way, a friend of my dads always keeps 10 million naira at home permanently and the day armed robbers came visiting the money saved his life and prevented his daughter and wife from being raped

MRbrownJAY:
this info is really pointless. . . . . thats about 6 worthy jets in a period of 365days bought by citizens of a country of +100million people. DO FORBES THINK THERE AINT NO RICH NIGERIANS?!

if rich Americans/European can buy planes, why cant rich African do the same?! nonsense!

except a large percentage of those people/worshippers/congregation are crying and dying of hunger and want,forbes knows there are rich nigerians but they are ridiculing and making fun of our ignorant display of wealth

kindablity:
i dont get it with u pips dat flog pastors over purchasing xpensive poo, check d log of wood in your eye b4 u see the sawdust in anodas eye, sell your xpensive fone,go buy a Nokia 3310,den give the balance to that beggar on your street, afta u have don this den u can talk, long hissssssss, HYPOCRITES,

that is hardly in the same context though is it?
4 private jet worth in excess of like 60/70 million dollars compared to an expensive phone,besides i can buy an expensive phone cause people around me my family and friends are not going hungry so i am morally justified can the MOGs say the same?

[quote author=Tudór link=topic=440441.msg8361018#msg8361018 date=1305911383]Thanks for your concern guys, I'm getting better now.

Na, it wasn't in Naija, I was supposed to travel back for xmas the next week. On that night I went out with one of my ex-CU dudes. We went to several parties and then a bar, by the time it was 11pm I had drunk soo much, I told waxy to drive. As we were on our way home we we're crossed and some gun wielding men and boys came, pulled us out, asked for the owner of the car I said I was, they knocked waxy in the head and shot him in the back then took me in and drove off to a secluded place.

Asked me to disable the security system and tracker I said fu,ck no, I am not losing two new cars in the space of 1 year next thing I was slapped and then the shots began they all shot at me. Funny enuf I wasn't feeling much pain

There I lay for almost an hour bleeding and No one was coming. I was bleeding seriously, felt myself going, started feeling cold and thirsty then I started hallucinating seeing some funny stuff. Looked up, saw I still had my car smiled to myself and Next thing I passed out.

Next time I woke it was 2011 january ending. The Docs told me I was a very lucky dude, on the night I was shot I had enuf alcohol in my tummy and system to get 3 men arrested. Said I was near Toxic dose. I should have died from the pain alone from d gun injuries but He said I was so numbed and sedated by the alcohol That's probably what saved my life.

Well since then I have gone through several surgeries to remove some fragments that couldn't be gotten when I was unstable. my folks brought me home and now since I'm stronger I've started proper physio. I plan to be up and running by ending of july when my brother will be graduating from CU.

So don't thank God or god for my life. Thank the nearest bottle of beer, whiskey, gin and scotch. All the days of my life I will forever kiss d bottle. Whoever said alcohol is a bad thing, well tell that to the marines.

@ Godson
I'll be back for you later tonight have an evening session to catch[/quote]dude,you r playing russian roullete with your life because of a brand new car? is the car a daimler benz or a rolls or maserati or ferrari for you to dare ruthless armed robbers who have nothing to lose?
i left a brand new car with the nigerian police when they detained me and asked me to prove ownership as soon as they started acting funny untill my dad sent a driver to go sort it out later talk less of armed robbers

missing nigeria so chilling out with king sunny ade the message

oludy:
If you have an M Class, E class, etc,  then you are also guilty. Why not buy a small and good enough car and use the rest to help the poor. Better still, why not take local transportation which is cheaper than owning a car rather than acquire a small and good enough car. We are all called to take the gospel to the world starting from your neighborhood.

no sire that is totally different i might want a better car or cars,our own bishop has fleets of the best cars money can buy he then bought the first PRIVATE jet,then the second then third,then fourth now justify this with me trying to own a better car or upgrading

oludy:
Having said that, MOGs can justify going out of nigeria to preach the gospel since Jesus left his own town when he was rejected.

definitely but not with private jets when he british prime minister doesnt own a private jet.
the pope doesnt own a private jet
warren buffet doesnt own a private jet
amongst others,
no one rejected our MOG and like someone said maybe they should start evangelising n bauchi,katsina,kano kaduna before jetting out to the usa and uk

oludy:
But, , honestly, i dunno, they may be justified to having private jets just like we all aspire to have our private cars/homes. Afterall, the guys in the rural areas who have "private" bicycles will wonder why you need a "private car". Just like you are wondering why they need "private" jets.

private jets not jet is an indulgence and an ostentatious display of wealth by any standard in the whole world for the MOG. for one of the richest man on earth reportedly worth in excess of 62billion and owning a company that manufactures private jets seeing it as a waste of money and unnecessary expense shows it is not justified

oludy:
The guy with a "private" leg,  (lol),

I am neither here or there, but the lesson is we should try to be "simple" (it's a relative word here) in all we do. Whatever "private" stuff you have, [b]please try to reach out to the needy (spiritually and materially) any where you may find yourself. Just try, [/b]

Why do i even need a "private" internet access at home. Maybe i should use the "public" cafe and rent a Mac/PC/iPad.

Jesus is not against comfort and ease but the question should be "Do we really need that "private" stuff? Are we really using it for the "purpose"?
[quote][/quote]you r now getting the real exence  at the bolded

Deep Sight:
I don't think I need to say much as Tudor and MyJoe have addressed your post already. Let me just note that the Old Testament is replete with the greatest horde of barbaric and murderous practices such as cannot be found anywhere else. The New Testament, for its part, is founded on the ritualistic human sacrifice of Jesus' blood. Thus you have no case, sir.

when you say horde of barbaric and murderous practises i will ask by whom exactly?
christians?
what rituals exactly apart from the death of jesus christ,how can you gys even argue with a straight face that the death of a single individual is enough justification for hundreds of years of needless and pointless shedding of human blood??

MyJoe:
Right. These things did happen. But the point you seem to be missing is that you are only looking at one side of the story. The very foundation of your religion is human sacrifice. Why can't you seem the similarity? When it failed to rain, the Ijebu king concluded that his people must have offended the gods and sacrifices were made to appease them and obtain forgiveness for such sins so it might rain. Your religion teaches you exactly the same thing!
________

Seems Tudor's back from sabbatical!

of course i see the similarities but only in words not in deed which you have to admit makes all the difference,where in the bible did GOD or christians sanction the sacrifice of human beings to bring rain? and i can assure you that christianity teaches no such thing, definitely not
[quote author=Tudór link=topic=440441.msg8357958#msg8357958 date=1305884474]Just look at this, Jesus' death is symbolic and not human sacrifice?? Hahahahahah Are you in actual fact denying that No blood was shed on the cross of calvary? This is like me putting 6 lead bullets into the head of the next man and claim its not murder but symbolism of my wickedness and psychopathic nature. Yea right![/quote]blood was shed on the cross yes,but before running haywire with your own conclusions hope you realise that it wasnt the christians that killed him?it is however our believe that irrespective of whoever did the killing,he allowed it to happen as a remission of our sins,
[quote author=Tudór link=topic=440441.msg8357958#msg8357958 date=1305884474]what is the difference between your "God" requiring the shedding of HUMAN Blood, BLOOD, BLOOD, BLOOD for forgiveness, mercy and favours and the same principle being required by the traditional religions of old?[/quote]he does not require the shedding of human blood,the blood of his son was shed by the romans/jews which he told us and we believe was for a specific purpose i.e cleansing our sins, its like the family of a murder victim saying their family member died for a higher/specific purpose,that doesnt mean that the perpetuator is the family or that the police will not charge and jail the perpetuator of the crime
[quote author=Tudór link=topic=440441.msg8357958#msg8357958 date=1305884474]As far as the christian God Is concerned, the payment for everything is. BLOOD, HUMAN BLOOD which was shed 2,000 years ago and you have the audacity to question the rationale of old traditional religions who practised human sacrifice? On what Moral Grounds?

If your God has the right to accept Blood payment for everything, why shouldn't others?[/quote]are you really rationalising the wholesale bloodshed and human sacrifices during the days of old especially pre colonial times with tis argument?

[quote author=Tudór link=topic=440441.msg8357830#msg8357830 date=1305883043]Hahahahhahahahahhahahhhha. Oh shiit.
This Hypocrite has probably never read the Old Testament. Blood shed? Innocent babies killed? Babaric laws? Murder? Genocide? Plunder? ALL in the Bible.[/quote]when you say old teatament,where in the old testament did christian murdered babies in cold blood or killed people in cold blood re occurently
[quote author=Tudór link=topic=440441.msg8357830#msg8357830 date=1305883043]Infact I challenge you, Name one so-called "evil" aspect of our traditional religion of old and I will show you an equivalent in the old testament. Hypocrites.[/quote]*how about leaving babies who are twins in the evil forest to slowly and systematically starve to death,some of those babies were reportedly killed by soldier ants crawling through their mouths and noses can you imagine that kind of death for an innocent child?
*burying slaves with dead kings to serve them in the after life
*pointless killing of people to celebrate their god's anniversary
[quote author=Tudór link=topic=440441.msg8357830#msg8357830 date=1305883043]Maybe if you really read the "thick volumes" in your fathers library you would see that the sins you deride your " progenitors" for, the "white man" has done far far worse and it was the same man who took your brother and sisters and enslaved them like donkeys that brought this dirty religion of christianity to us. So stop contradicting yourself![/quote]totally agree with you when you use the words "white men"however to clarify i meant genuine white missionaries,big difference while the white soldiers of fortune,business people etc were pillaging and taking africans as slaves dont forget many missionaries died of tse tse fly,malaria etc to spread the gospel and liberate innocent people from certain death, to accurately put my points inperspective you should go back and watch the stepping stones documentary of the child witches of akwa ibom