₦airaland Forum

nopuqeater:
@godSON2009: « #58 on: March 21, 2010, 06:28 PM » the bolded is absolutely incorrect. the only thng we have in common is the religion and maybe the male gender. if your assumption is correct in your own eye, then it is no wonder you take three gods to be One God. just the other day, in 2010 america, the women as a whole i still struggling for equality in many conditions. america was even willing to accept a black man for the office of the presidency instead of a woman. please, mr. ask paddy adenuga if his wife is on the same equal footing with him, or his mother on equal footing with his father?

the fact that paddy adenuga and his wife are not on equal footing does not make it righ though does it? the fact that a religion deems it fit that men must perpetually controll and dominate women doesn make it right does it?

nopuqeater:
first stop calling me Alhaji, because i have not made the pilgrimage yet, and an not lagbaja or olabowale. now, i spoke about the Quran which gives 2 times the portion to man as what is given a woman. ask paddy adenuga if he has double the authority of his sister, older or younger in the family business or setting. he will tell you that after his father he is next, definitely over his women siblings, and even his mother. you mr. has a lot to learn about the reality of life.

i hear you,like the yoruba saying says two people cannot "padanu iro", if the person being lied to doesnt know,surely the person lieing knows he is lieing lol like i said before that doesnt make it right btw paddy adenga's sister is a c director as well meaning they are on equal footing you can check in the papers even if this is a slight digression obviously mike adenuga is a christian not muslim or the girl will be cleaning up after her brother

nopuqeater:
while your women are responsible for all the cleaning,it is not so in Islam. the wife has clear responsibilities which do not include cooing meals for the husband, washing the husband cloths, etc. her responsibilities are hat she does not become an ally to the enemies of her husband or have sexual intercourse with somebody who is not her husband, etc. if the women companions sat around and spoke to Muhammad (AS, the best of Muslim example, whomyou said cant help himself around women) and other male companions and no one was abused, then is it a matter to be disputed today, except that you mr godSON is happy to see women from other familie in "second skin" where though they wore cloths, but everything and every part is showing. dirty minded man. you should b ashamed of yourself. no wonder you sleep with the woman in 9ja, and you do not consider it a sexual sin.

i see so the responsibilities of thrashing them with koboko if they are disobedient,whose responsibility is that?
so they are not to clean or cook or do any household chores,but they are to cover themselves from head to toe and perpetually sit down at the back of the house,screened off from every living being and you honestly think that kind of life is better than a christian woman's??
by the way,can you show me where the bible tells women to do the washing,cooking n stuffs?the bible enjoins the men to give unconditional love to their wives,and never to make them sad even though the man is the head of the household,meaning unlike the quran apostle paul didnt enjoin christians to treat them like leprous slaves.
i have asked you to show me where the bible has mentioned that you must go to the house of GOD,to solemnise a wedding before it is justified before GOD?you cant bcause it is not there, the accounts of marriage in the bible was genesis when isac went to take a wife,and the bible describes that as soon as both families agreed,then became man and wife i can give u the verse, show me any single place in the bible where christian are told to do it in the church

nopuqeater:
Quote from: nopuqeater on March 21, 2010, 02:10 PM
have you ever heard of the women around the prophets? women became teaches in the faith, they teached Quran which they memorized, narrated ahadiths.

i see,but answer one single question "are they allowed to teach in the normal mosques??lol

nopuqeater:
so one question,are they allowed to teach men who can learn from them?
are they allowed to stand on the podium and publicly teach men in the mosque then?surely they should be if the genders are equal in islamsurah Al-Mujadila [chapter 58, verses 1-5, are good enough] below is verse 1 and you can rad the rest yourself;
Sahih International
Certainly has Allah heard the speech of the one who argues with you, [O Muhammad], concerning her husband and directs her complaint to Allah . And Allah hears your dialogue; indeed, Allah is Hearing and Seeing.
Tafsir al-Jalalayn
God has certainly heard the words of her who disputes with you, [her who] consults you, O Prophet, concerning her husband, who has repudiated her by zihār — he had said to her, ‘You are to me [as untouchable] as the back of my mother’. She asked the Prophet (s) about this and he told her that she was [thenceforth] forbidden to him, as was customary among them [at the time of Jāhiliyya], namely, that repudiation by zihār results in permanent separation. She was Khawla bt. Tha‘laba and he was Aws b. al-Sāmit — and complains to God, of her being alone and of her impoverishment while having young children, whom if she were to leave with him, they would go astray, but whom, if they remained with her, would go hungry. And God hears your conversation, your consulting. Assuredly God is Hearer, Seer, [He is] Knower.

the bolded above and others you wrote below to present your argument, would have seen plausable, if at anytime in the Makkan period the muslims enjoyed any peace, if only for a moment, not even a day! Muhammad (AS) started his mission simply on a simple Principle: God Almighty is One, Alone in His Supremacy and has no part. Muhammad ws not the first that postulated this: Ibrahim (AS) postulated the same Principleby simply aking the community of his forefathers; ask that big idol. Jesus and others postulated the sme by saying: our God is but One Lord. As to Muhammad (AS)without your saying something that can not be substantiated; point out to a point in time that the Muslims were not hated for "killing" the positions of the 360 gods? I remember that Abu Lahab was angry with Muhammad (AS) from the moment he announced that God is One and all gods are nothing, he (Abu Lahab, and even Abu Jahal (Abu Sham)) woul have been happy, and would have buried the hatchet, if only for one moment, and asked why the change of mind thereafter. None of these hapened and Surah "Kafiruun" was revealed to reject the suggestion that Islam could ever be practised along with the mixture of a single paganic ideologue; the reason innovation in Islam is frowned upn.

you still have not answered my simple question,are the women in islam allowed to preach in the normal mosques to men??lol by the way makka or medinan is inconscequetial in this regard becuse there were female soldiers as well who participated in the battles and wars so i am waiting for a categorical answer from you sire

nopuqeater:
i do not intend to beat downany dead horse, again; i am not Alhaji and stop confusing me with anyone else; thats the problem wth Christinity; confusing human prophet with God Who remains Unseenand Immortal. the words of the man in bold, if he corrected himself, wit absolute prophesies, must be better than Jesus wo actually opposed his own statements not to call anyone a fool for the speaker wilbe hell bound, and or the fact that he promised to come back to earth in the time of his disciples, and it has been over 2000 years without that return and no disciple is alive, today. Could a real prophet be this wrng? Could God be wrong?

and your own problem in islam is that you do not read biblical accounts in its proper context,i dont know about you,but people around here if you see someone vandalising,or kicking a door in or something you quickly run to help or if possible even hold the person down till the police get there, some have foiled robberies in the abscence of the police, all jesus christ did was a religious duty which is incumbent on any believer, if traders,pig sellers por butchers tried the same thing in a mosque, we both know that their heads will be displayed on a stake even in this day and age, if you have taken time to read the bible you will discover thatthere were specific prophecies in the bible which had to come to pass before his coming he prophecied about nations rising up against nations,he prophecieced about false prophets,the bible even said that untill the good news had been propagated all round the world,before he comes, do you realise that even though the chinese population are in billions,there are places where they have not heard the word "jesus" before, there are still places i japan where they dont know the meaning of "christian" or any religion apart from buhdism, there are places inchina where a bible is worth as musch as the price of a car so what are you n about?you should be sad that while christian missionaries are dieing even till today to spread the gospel t all these places,mujahideens are busy blowing other ppl and each other up, the missionary work of gideon bible alone is more than islam in the last 50 years

nopuqeater:
ifi corected my own statement before anyone detected my error[s], could i be declared as incorrect? if i could be declared as incorrect, then tell me who is right; Moses who said God is One, Unseen or Jesus of the Bible who sad Gods are three; he, ghost and father, while he Jesus was obviously seen and then killed in every which was that a person could have been killed?

i will not try and explain the concept of the triune all over again,because it is obvious tha you are trying to be mischevous.
so do you now agree that mohmmad made several erros in the quran then?because if you do i have a very pertinent question to ask you.
jesus christ assertion about the triune has been explained,dont blame anyone of you have decided to ignore the truth and follow falsehood, mohammad simply lied,or said something he knew was an untruth and later corrected himself two different things.

nopuqeater:
in my dialogue wth you, ths is the first time we are talking about "satanic" verses, which I have asked you to show me on the pages of the Quran. You have not shown it, and threfore your questions are absolutely irrelevant; if we pay tattention to the fact that anyone can say anythig about anyone, as long as he does no have to proof it, it may be believed my many with the same idealogue. if say that the christians believe in 3 Gods, that will be a fact baed on what you christians belief in, withyour Trinity idea: Jesus who died. Ghost who is unseen but alays on errant. Yahweh who is not killed. That wil be a fact, but not One God.

that has been rectified,you can view it in the reply to your brother babs o this same page just before this reply

nopuqeater:
Give me that same fact about "satanic" verses, when every recitation of the Quran starts with Audhu bIllahi minal Shaithani rajiim: do the christian curse any of their allies: evn Judas Iscariot, the very intimate disciple who carried our every request of Jesus? To answer your two question: I have answered them above with a simple statement; Satanic verse did not happen, hence your questions are inappropriate.

so this is your new style??outright denial loooool so why did mohammad correct himself later in quran 22;5253lol "52. Never did We send an apostle or a prophet before thee, but, when he framed a desire, Satan threw some (vanity) into his desire: but Allah will cancel anything (vain) that Satan throws in, and Allah will confirm (and establish) His Signs: for Allah is full of Knowledge and Wisdom:

53. That He may make the suggestions thrown in by Satan, but a trial for those in whose hearts is a disease and who are hardened of heart: verily the wrong-doers are in a schism far (from the Truth):

or did i invent these verses as well,better still i am sure you will find a way to twist it and then bombard and rabble dazzle me with enuff hadiths looool

nopuqeater:
I simply areed with you that Veses about Jihad are on the pages of the Quran. While am honest about my Quran, you will deny your Bible. below are verses 2;190 to guide you along to 191. notice my bolded.

Sahih International
Fight in the way of Allah those who fight you but do not transgress. Indeed. Allah does not like transgressors.
Tafsir al-Jalalayn
After the Prophet (s) was prevented from [visiting] the House in the year of the battle of Hudaybiyya, he made a pact with the disbelievers that he would be allowed to return the following year, at which time they would vacate Mecca for three days. Having prepared to depart for the Visitation [‘umra], [he and] the believers were concerned that Quraysh would not keep to the agreement and instigate fighting. The Muslims were averse to becoming engaged in fighting while in a state of pilgrimage inviolability in the Sacred Enclosure [al-haram] and during the sacred months, and so the following was revealed: And fight in the way of God, to elevate His religion, with those who fight against you, the disbelievers, but aggress not, against them by initiating the fighting; God loves not the aggressors, the ones that overstep the bounds which God has set for them: this stipulation was abrogated by the verse of barā’a, ‘immunity’ [Q. 9:1], or by His saying [below]:
2:191
to topSahih International
And kill them wherever you overtake them and expel them from wherever they have expelled you, and fitnah is worse than killing. And do not fight them at al-Masjid al- Haram until they fight you there. But if they fight you, then kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers.
Tafsir al-Jalalayn
And slay them wherever you come upon them, and expel them from where they expelled you, that is, from Mecca, and this was done after the Conquest of Mecca; sedition, their idolatry, is more grievous, more serious, than slaying, them in the Sacred Enclosure or while in a state of pilgrimage inviolability, the thing that you greatly feared. But fight them not by the Sacred Mosque, that is, in the Sacred Enclosure, until they should fight you there; then if they fight you, there, slay them, there (a variant reading drops the alif in the three verbs [sc. wa-lā taqtilūhum, hattā yaqtulūkum, fa-in qatalūkum, so that the sense is ‘slaying’ in all three, and not just ‘fighting’]) — such, killing and expulsion, is the requital of disbelievers.

so we are both agreed at last that islam is a violent religion?good!

nopuqeater:
there were no sects of jews, but tribes in madina. what were the trumped up charges and why did many of them accepted Islam, allowing him [as[ to decide their disputes? one of them died in the second fight where hamzah [ra] was murdered by wahsi, against the makkans. i accepted treason should be carry capital punishment, Alhamdulillah, the unsuccessful attempt on the life of the messenger by devine intervention is another proof of his Messengership. the same way Jesus was spared of humiliation of dying on the cross, except you love to tag him as accursed, humiliated soul.

either they were sects,or tribes or countries is inconscequential,what matters is that mohammad made sure he over ran 3 different jewish tribes,sects whateveer without provocation all because they rejected him as a prophet, same reason he stopped your forebears from praying towards jerusalem e.t.c
your mohammad was the individual that committed the act of treason towards the makkan government,henc the reason they wanted him to answer for it,and then he took off, so if he committed a treasoable offence then he deerved to be killed in line with the laws at that time.there was nothing spectacular about the way he escaped,wole soyinka's escape from abacha's gulag was more spectacular, ayo fayose's escape n the boot of a car was more spectacular abeg!

nopuqeater:
laugh all you want; while you turn blind eyes, America the leadership of Christianity thrown aside christian doctrine, you will say if only for a moment to not turn the other cheek, but to kill Afghanistanis, and pre=empt in Iraq. then turn around in both places to begin christian prolytesizing, winning souls for the Jesus they forgot toremember as they engaged in wars. i know you will say that it is the defense of country, so i ask you; which isto be respected, jesus and christianity or nation? when you ignore jesus you are either a lying christian or the bible lies. both cant be telling the truth.

first of all,i dont know where you got the idea that america is the leader of christianity, i have heard people say rome/the vatican ,however i peersonally dont believe that and i would rather see redemption camp as my own headquarters of christianity than a capitalist/corrupt america,any bonafide christian leader must not be biased,neither are they supposed to support bloodshed in any guise or form,so anyone that has contravened he bible and the apostles is not my own leader, hope this clears up any misconceptions you might be having, its like challenging you to defend the actions of the gagja weed in sudan or the islamic extremists in somalia,egyt e.t.c

nopuqeater:
all abrogated verses were left in the Quran just as what abrogated them. Why not the satanic verses that you said abrogated, if truly there were such verses? te obvious conclusion is there were no satanic verses, so there were no abrogations to what neve existed. i am not making this statemeny because you have no proof, i am saying this in addition because if at anytime there was a moment alliance betwen the muslims, that time of utterance would have been it.

i have posted what can be seen as validation of the satanic verses,and i have also posted the satanic verses s well it is the height of cowardice on your part to simply assert that it never eisted, your brother babs will still argue and disagree even in the face of incontrovertible fact,you are sayn it never existed lol

nopuqeater:
we do know there was no time of peace until the triumph over makka, the reason they suffered continuosly and isolated at sometime, banished to outskirt of he city, attempts were made over the life of the prophet, and many minor hijr were made to even african egypt, before the final one to madina, and we do not hear at anytime that any of his people including his uncles who died disbelieving that they asked him; why did you change your statement after you have gain all of us as your ally? many views support the fact that there were no 'satanic verses', considering that Surah Kafiruun was revealed in makka and shaithan is always cursed by muslims; where do you think you can secure yourelf with lies, except that the muslims challenge you of them?

as usual you are trying to use your sweet mouth to re write history,even mohammad didnt do that, in a country where he was persecuted as the leader f a new religion from all sides after uttering those words,the mekkans were not only happy with him but he gor some support and what we can liken to concessions from them it was later that he slyly and cleverly recanted his statement which i have posted as well in this replies to you above, while mohammad might have been spited upon,abused e.t.c he was never inany real danger while he was at makka,so please let us stop all these exaggerations he had support from his uncle,his influential wife how difficult was it for the nigerian government to crush boko haram? how much more mohammad and his followers who were not even up to boko haram numbers abegi!!

nopuqeater:
please stop calling me Olabowale, since i am not he. jesus did not fight because he would have been defeated, except that God Almighty granted him victory. you cant say that jesus was a peaceful man since even as a man who had not began his ministry got angry with the money changers enough to turn over their trading desks.

be totally honest with yourself,what do you think mohammad or muslim extremists would have done if they fund traders,pig sellers,pork butchers in their mosquesyou know the answer and you know full well the traders would never have been let off with only over turning tanles, moreover a single man in the midst of a mini market over turing tables and not being challenged means that they knew that they were doing something wrong no?thank GOD the bible never said he went there with a group of people, he saw something that wa being done which was totally wrong and he immediately reacted and the traders scampred off because they knew they were wrong

nopuqeater:
we cant say a prson like that is peaceful, when we also consider the verses where people were told to kill servants who do no produce enough wealth for the master.

please,always prove your assertions with the particular verse/verses in the bible, post the verse pls!

nopuqeater:
Adeboye can fight all he wants; if he wins it is because the people he won over were evil doers. i disagree with the muslim tribes who fought and killed innocent people, when you consider that muslims should not start a conflict and must not kill noncombatants. the muslims of today are not emulating Muhammad (AS) and for sure te jos or thos who start conflcts are disgrace to islam.
the other reason for adeboye to win is if Allah wills it so that Adeboye ad like mind will cntinue to go astray, since sometimes evils win, or thatthe muslims may actually take stock of their deeds, the muslims of Andulisia lost tothe cross worshippers of Spain, the same people the protestants call "idol/mary worshippers".

again,you have lost the essence of my comments, my point is that if christians ere to behave in the way and manner you muslims behave then things would ot be very peaceful like they are now, the over 5 million members of redeemed and christ embassy alone is enough to wage war against muslims in nigeria talk less of winners,deeper life and other ministeries e.t.c

babs787:
@Godson2009

I did not see it and I would not be requesting for same if I had seen it. My response showed where I joined the discusssion.

permit me if i dont post a lot on each of your bullet points because i am also busy doing something else online check quran 4;34 yusuf ali translation which i prefer
"34. Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all)."
that is one example of gender inequality,as you kow there are several hadiths as well

babs787:
Check my response up please. There should be no problem if you had presented your 'supposed' response from your Oblongata . You only need to re-type or better still go to where you posted and do a 'copy and paste' for me.

this time i will avail you of two verses cause i am in a generous mood,
quran 2;191 same yusuf ali translation"191. And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have Turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith.

quran 2;216 "216. Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not.
i still have more in your quran where these came from,

babs787:
Specific verses ke . Oga, my response showed where I joined and do not have time to go back. There should be no problem if you had presented your 'supposed' response from your Oblongata . You only need to re-type or better still go to where you posted and do a 'copy and paste' for

qurran 53;19-22 "19. Have ye seen Lat. and 'Uzza,

20. And another, the third (goddess), Manat?

21. What! for you the male sex, and for Him, the female?

22. Behold, such would be indeed a division most unfair!

i dont need to explain the controversy about the satanic verses again do i?if you dont know then wiki it out or google
i cant buy you a car and still be looking for a driver for you

babs787:
I did not see it and I would not be requesting for same if I had seen it.

Consulting Professor Alfred Guillaume on this topic provides a background to this Sura:
"The other gods mentioned in the Qur’an are all female deities: Al-Lat, al-‘Uzza, and Manat, which represented the Sun, the planet Venus, and Fortune, respectively; at Mecca they were regarded as daughters of Allah. The cult of Al-Lat was widespread. As Allah means ‘the god’, so Al-Lat means ‘the goddess’. She is mentioned by Herodotus; in old Arabian inscriptions; and in the pre-Islamic poets; and was the great mother goddess who, under various names, was worshipped all over the ancient world. Ta’if, a town near Mecca, was a centre of her worship. For the Meccan’s
(source;http://discoverislam.tripod.com/moon.html)
i will enjoin you to read the article as well,i have other more credible sources if you want,can you now see the connection of islam and the three gdesses??

babs787:
There should be no problem if you had presented your 'supposed' response from your Oblongata . You only need to re-type or better still go to where you posted and do a 'copy and paste' for
I did not see it and I would not be requesting for same if I had seen it.

i have addressed this in the previous block of comments,how am i doing so far my oblongata must be doing a good job loooool

babs787:
Please, kindly direct to that post from your friend. I am realy interested in learning from you and your friend.

dexmond
Posts: 300

Offline

Re: Who Is The Helper That Jesus(puh)said He Will Send If Not Prophet Mohammed(puh)
« #57 on: March 21, 2010, 05:54 PM »

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From the scriptures below and the questions that follow, I argue that Muslims claim that Mohammed is the Comforter/Holyghost is false.

Acts 13:2

While they were worshiping the Lord and fasting, the Holy Spirit
said, "Set apart for me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have
called them."


Was it Mohammed that asked the apostles to separate Barnabas and Saul? NO, therefore, Mohammed is not the Holy Spirit/Comforter

Matthew

28:19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in
the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

Did the apostles baptise in Mohammeds name? No, therefore, muslims claim that Mohammed is the HolyGhost/Comforter, is faulty
i hope you have learnt from these bible erses,which has effectively chattered your dreams of connecting your ibo made religion to christianity have a nice weekend

even though you say you are not alhaji mujiheed oabowale,myinstincts are never wrong and they tell me you are

nopuqeater:
@godSON2009: Allah says about the Sun; it rises and sets, and it is a means of measuring time, etc, Allah says of the Moon it is a mens of measuring the month, etc.

alhaji olabowale,now tell me in the age of scientific breakthroughs how come you gys are still using the primitive methods in the age of satellites being launched into space which can tell the time of the sallah and others more accurately if not that you have deified the moon? while it performed the functions you have highlighted in the old days,certainly not now

nopuqeater:
There i sno place in the Quran that says Muslims should face te Sun, or the east when to pray, but o face the Quiblah (Ka'aba). Ka'aba is Quiblah of muslims, unless you can proof otherwise. I see your problem though; you are a Nigerian and everything you know about Islam is based on Nigeria. You now live in London, though West to Makka, but in higher latitude to Makka that what Lagos is to Makka. Do the Muslims in London face the east exactly as the Lagosians do, or is it sme degrees southeast, whie lagos is direct east? Ilive in the US; the praye direction is easterly, but NYC is angled southward east diffferent from the more northern city of Provdence Rhode Island, or Boston in Mssachussetts, or the the more souternly Miami Florid or Los Angeles California.

People in Brisbane Austrailia are not facing their own east, but their own west to face Kaaba. The makkans face Kaaba all around; east, west, north, south and every directional points in the middle. And when you are inside the cubicle, you can face any of the walls.

alhaji olabowale,while i honestly appreciate the concise and indepht explanations ,i am not dealing in semantics here, irrespective of where kaabah is,the fact of the matter which you have indirectly admitted here unlike babs 747 is that you face the direction of whereever kaaba is which is a graven image and "pray towards it" bowing down your head,kneeling as far as i am oncerned that is worshipping.if i see you and rather than extend a handshake i bow down ,prostrate and bow down again on a regular,then i am treating you as my god rather than a mere mortal

nopuqeater:
And please read the Bible about gender differences, starting from Eve. The woman that Adam blamed God for creating, the woman who caused him to eat the "fruit" (i intentionally leave apple out of it, because I do not know if you are one of those who say it is is not apple. There is no verse in the Bible that elevate women but many curse them.

first your brother babs denies the existence of female prophets in the bible,and when i showed him several he started using his mouth to dance awilo to the side,now you have brought your own againthe way women should be treated has been summed up by apostle paul in the new testament where husbands are enjoined to treat women as christ treated the church which is with unconditional love,this is alo why we are enjoined to marry only one woman and there must be no divrce under any circumstances, imagine if everybody obeyed the biblical injunctions the number of children who would have a better life,less armed robbrs criminals e.t.c however if u want verses in the bibe i will avail u of them.
if you dont want your islamic religion to die off,then the gender inequality and the barbaric way you treat women should be orted,for every uplawal that converts from christianity to islam,even though she was never a proper christian tyo start with ten more young ladies are converting from islam to christian pentecostal churches, all your islamic youths male and female are cell leaders in christ embassy,all the adults are members of winners and redeeed

so in your own opinion is it fair to pass judgement on an issue soely based upon the astor's personal life?irrespective of pastor ashimoloo's personal life or the car he drives,the issue in this case should be judged based upon its merits and demerits and for anyone to tell me that it has no racial undertones is a fallacy of the highest order, most people on here seems to be making comments based on the fact of pastor ashimolowo as an individual, what if he was a nigerian businessman and employer of labour,ould that make any difference??

b.t.w i am not one of those who call pastors daddy,idolise or deify any man or woman of GOD i fact i dont relate with any pastor personally after church matters my own parish pastor inclusive,and i will certainly point out and highlight any excesses i see in any man or woman of GOD because the bible has given me the authority to do so

babs787:
@God son2009


Quit this game, you would gain nothing . I found that there would be no need exchanging words with you because you are not intelligent and smart enough to debate in a forum like this. I could see that you have been making denials, using a question to answer a question, going in circles as if being blind to the glaring responses.

You ignorantly accused Muslims of worshipping the sun from your post below:

I responded that:


You went again:

I replied you that:

False
The sun rises in the East and set in the West huh? So, who do we pray to when the sun

Rises in the East.
Sets in the west

You went again to post thrash that:


I have told you that WE DONT WORSHIP THE SUN and if you think we do:


So, who do we pray to when the sun

Rises in the East.
Sets in the west

When you are to answer that, I would the rest one at a time and we discuss.

i am sorry you think you are too superior to me in knowledge to debate with me,as you know i really cant do anything about that after all,GOD gives knowledge so he gave you a higher knowledge that i have.
bearing that in mind why dont you school me and enlighten me?
if i am making ignorant coments,then it is incumbent and a duty upon you as a muslim i.e jihad of the tongue to correct and answer my questions right?
i have raised many allegations concerning gender bias in islam,you refused to answer me.
i raised the important issue of muslims worshipping the sun and the moon you refused to answer me,instead you are burrowing yourelf in a tiny corner in a bid to evade the question, even if the sun raises in the north an sets in the south,that is not the issue the pertinent issues here are
1.the muslims have venerated a mere object into a god
i.e the sun,the moon
how did they do this? apart from bowing down to the sun and pretending they are praying to allah,the translation of the names of the 3 godesses which mohammad mentioned in the quran(satanic verses)means and connects directly to the sun and the moon showing a worryig connection please school me on this mistake which i am sure you can easily explain.

second muslims proudly display the symbol of this sun and moon over ther mosques world wide without pretence
also they use the moon as the only compass of sorts to tell them when to celebrate their festivals,while on its own this might not amount to much proof,the supporting evidence i.e the connection between the name of the godess moon and this cannot be simply over looked.

in adittion,muslims sacrifice ram offerings and spilling of blood to who exactly??and please do not tell me in remembrance of isaac and abrahaam because the story is ours from our bible,and even we dont kill rams anymore

if you are simply expecting me to take your word for the truth,they you are sady mistaken,because i amnot one of the ignorant mujahideens wh dont klnow their left from their right,if you dont know or are incapable of explaining,then i will absolve you "there is no compulsion" lol for you to do so
i have decided like you have to address issues one after the other, pls educate me on this glaring inconsistency in islam,then we will talk about the justifications for gender,inequality and then my favourite delicacy justification for islamic terrorism and so on there is a lot i am ignorant about and i need you to educate me sire

[quote author=Tudór link=topic=300601.msg5784634#msg5784634 date=1269804043]if a policeman targets black people based on their skin colour isn't that racist?[/quote]well you cant prove it though can you?? especially if the policeman didnt make any racially biased comments,and if he has a seemenly good reason for targetting them?so how will you prove racism then going by your wonky assertions?
[quote author=Tudór link=topic=300601.msg5784634#msg5784634 date=1269804043]If you cannot prove this and you go shooting-off your mouth and calling him a racist, isnt that libellous?[/quote]lool now we are getting somewhere,if social scientists were to follow this line of reasoning do you realise that we will be like at least 100 years behind in critical race theories and criminological explanations??i bet you didnt know lol
[quote author=Tudór link=topic=300601.msg5784634#msg5784634 date=1269804043]Listen my friend, i dont deal with misplaced sentiments. Allegations such as bigotry have to backed up with evidence else you're just soiling the reputation of a good man.[/quote]mmn i see, i really dont blame you having read your first couple of lines in this particular set of retorts, let me ask you how did lord macpherson come to the conclusion that there was institutional racism in the metropolitan police force without such clear cut black and white evidence you are seeking for after inquiries into the stephen lawrence murder case?? i can avail you of the complete report if you will like to read it and many more lol
a quick point concerning the report and the whole debacle is that every single police personell accused have consistently denied,and there has been no conclusive proof going by your assertions in your infinte knowledge i guess they are not guilty then
[quote author=Tudór link=topic=300601.msg5784634#msg5784634 date=1269804043]I will never stand for any ignoramus out there who accuses others of bigotry without proof.Thanks for verifying that your pastor writes materials from his [b]OWN KNOWLEDGE[/b ].[/quote]first pastor ashimolowo is not my pastor,i attend redeemed church not k.i.c c i just happen to respect and appreciate the calling of GOD upon his life,he writes from "his own knowledge" of the impartationof the word,in other words his own explanations and interpretations of the word of GOD, and like marxism espounds is simply getting paid for his property i.e knowledge,his brain his hands eyes e.t.c.secondly i have given you real life instances and have asked you to point out how you would have come to a conclusion of racial prejudice or institutional racism if you were in the position of authority seeing as you have been rambling on about proof, i will be waiting for your helpful input concerning the macpherson enquiry on stephen lawrence,since it seems you have a repository of knowledge which people like macpherson,the home office,criminological theorists,social scientists,academicians e.t.c dont have
[quote author=Tudór link=topic=300601.msg5784634#msg5784634 date=1269804043]Silly me. And here was I assuming it was God's Word inspired from heaven given to his children through his messenger. Thanks for clearing that up.

lastly a[/quote]dont you dare beat yourself up over this!! you r not silly you are simply being naive and ignorant(in a good way of course )
talk about stating the obvious,s there any other way of the impartation?
btw,some of his books are not strictly religious lie the best seller"what is wrong with being black" is more of a chronology of black history using research and facts about the history and originns of blacks and africans he has done, you really should read about stuffs before making comments
[quote author=Tudór link=topic=300601.msg5784634#msg5784634 date=1269804043]I still await this elusive 'scientific' scientific proof mr genius, since you boasted you debate only with 'scientific proof'. I wonder why its so hard for you.
I'll prolly give you another 4 days to come up with more crap.[/quote]thanks for giving me time to marshall my thoughs,just got back from the cinema have you seen clash of the titans in 3d?you should its really nice now enuff of the friendly chatter you wont recognise scientific explanations or theories if it landed on your head or dropped on your laps,so why should i bother poring over books and journals when you have not made the slightest attempt to learn?
in order for you to learn go and goggle and read the journal article shame rage and racist violence,
go and read du bois and his critical race theories
fakete liz new race and xenophobia,khoury(2009) policing of riots(filtering urbane space theory). sivanandra(ccheck international institute of race relationsonline and his article on intergration)kundani 2001, if you are rreally interested in knowing what these theorists have said about racial prejudice and answers to your question about evidence e.t.c let me know and i will provide you helpful journals holdaways journal about the new "suspect community" will explain in proper detailed context,british journal of criminology will give youproperly researched and documented statistics on racial prejudice,you could google state sanctioned racism and racial profiling as well and see what this means
google for the name paul gilroy and his theories on this same issue,he is still alive and if you want to just saunter over to university of london,he is the head of department and a known authority worldwide

if you are willig to learn,then i will make the effort to henceforth reply your comments simply by posting relevant journals and articles to answer your questions.

lastly,a patronising comment lol "reading broadens your mind and empowers you,so read and be knowledgeable about going ons around you, even the bible says we should seek knowledge to show ourselves approved make sure you are in church tmorrow shalom and have a noce one

[quote author=Tudór link=topic=300601.msg5784632#msg5784632 date=1269804026]i merely stated the truth which was attempts to quote your your lenghty post was freezing my device which was all the more worsened by the fact that your post contained no substance but empty ramblings.[/quote]lol i see maybe you simply should have used a pc or laptop,instead of the unsolicited announcement,it takes two to ramble. maybe all i was doing was simply responding to your retorts.again i will re -iterate for the umpteenth time that if a lunatic uses a bundle of £50 notes to clean his arse,doesnt mean the money is worthless does it??just means he doesnt appreciate or cant see the value in it, go figure!!
it takes an appreciation for art to know a van gogh is expensive,if you offer it to a market woman in ajegunle,she wont pay 1,000 naira for it
[quote author=Tudór link=topic=300601.msg5784632#msg5784632 date=1269804026]If i had said it was freezing my computer that in your skwewed world wouldnt count as 'announcement' right?Noisemaker!![/quote]i still would have wondered what the corellation was between a random debate with a total nobody on an online portal and my "hand held device" computer,satellite or whatever
[quote author=Tudór link=topic=300601.msg5784632#msg5784632 date=1269804026]One admits your senseless post freezes his/her device you scream 'announcement' 'nigerian factor' yet here you are ranting about 'acheivements'. Are you a confused man?[/quote]no i am not a confused man,while you had no need to show us that you have a hand held device,i was simpy stating a pertinent fact that was connected to the discourse,you dont see me mentioning the car i drive or my wrist watch,family pedigree e.t.c because the have absolutely nothing to do with the debate
[quote author=Tudór link=topic=300601.msg5784632#msg5784632 date=1269804026]Even Einstein who discovered E=mc2 didnt make as much noise instead a small boy with a degree in 'criminology' where they teach how to babysit convicts is now claiming 'genius'. I tire o.[/quote]lol sorry o aunty tudor,were you there when einstein was alive,so how did you know he didnt? loool at the risk of pissing you off again i dont have only a degree in criminology i have much more than a degree,and the discipline is important for the sake of people like you who are either naive or ignorant about what goes on around them, people like you will probably thank the white man for rescuing you from the dark ages in africa to a new world. if not for criminology and researches by social scientists the average white man would have inculcated racist theories like that of the biological positivists,lombroso,engel classical theorists into mainstream academia,then i would have liked to see how you will re act if anyone showed you a text book pointing out your physical features as a black lady and how this translates to being a criminal biologically e.t.c
[quote author=Tudór link=topic=300601.msg5784632#msg5784632 date=1269804026]You have done nothing here to show you even worked for your primary 6 certificate. Every educated infant knows you don't go around accusing others of bigotry without proof. oh i've learnt something. I've learnt how to type absolute crap in so many words. . .might come in handy if i ever have a dead brain. Omg! I keep asking you, WHERE IS YOUR EVIDENCE FOR THIS BOLD STATEMENT?[/quote]so are we agreed that i have a primary 6 certificate then? educated infant??lool didnt know education started from the womb these days lool, lol you are sooo entertaining,if you r like this in real life i bet you will have loads of friends cause i can read your funny comments all day long,i will allow readers to judge which of us has asingle celled brain going by the contents of the replies,the insults, verbal barbs,crass naivety and ignorance,ignorant assumptions, and simplistic explanations , me and my brother are lol here reading all your drivel
[quote author=Tudór link=topic=300601.msg5784632#msg5784632 date=1269804026]can you not read? I ask for evidence of a racial motive behind this protest and you keep making baseless assertions
.[/quote]because i have tried to reply you with textbook standard criminological explanations so that it wont seem as if i am just making empty assertions,but in your biased naivety you have refused to learn,the only thing i can do is to show you a real life instance this time involving muslims.
check this link out, http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20100403/tuk-violence-at-anti-mosque-protest-6323e80.html[quote author=Tudór link=topic=300601.msg5784632#msg5784632 date=1269804026]If this case where to be in a courtroom is this how you gonna prove your case or did they not teach you in criminology classes?4 days mr academic, 4 Days! and this is all you could bring to show the people of c.palace are racists.[/quote]if this case was to be in a court room,i am sorry but someone of your ilk solely basd on the contents of your replies wouldnt be allowed in anyway which im sure you will agree,secondly with my limited knowledge of law,it is argued by presedence and what the books says,including theories and common sense which if applied to this paticular issue on the whole will show the complete picture and not the corner of the picture you keep focusing on and stubbornly staring at without stepping back to behold the complete canvass
[quote author=Tudór link=topic=300601.msg5784632#msg5784632 date=1269804026]Its clearly stated in the article that
1. There is limited parking space in the area.[/quote]aunty tudor,did you read this before posting?? if it is turned back into a cinema,where would the cinema goers be parking their cars as well?besides if 1400 worshippers are allowed in the church,then the same number will be allowed into a cinema no? so tell me in your superior knowledge how this impacts upon who is allowed to operate the premises bearing in mind that the same demographics use both places.
it is worse with cinemas because the mass of people will be oing in and out till at least 1 am on a typical weekend,compared with a church
[quote author=Tudór link=topic=300601.msg5784632#msg5784632 date=1269804026]2. A congregation of 1400+ would cause congestion.[/quote]refer to your first question's answer
[quote author=Tudór link=topic=300601.msg5784632#msg5784632 date=1269804026]3. Such congestion would discourage people from shopping in the area, this leads to loss of economy.[/quote]i see,could you explain this please,cause it is not making any iota of sense to me??or are we inferring that the members of k.i.c.c dont have purchasing power,bearing in mind that crystal palace area like many parts of london is home to a population of minority ethnic groups who are represented in the church.maybe you should go to waterden road where k.i.c.c was using before and find out how many of their members purchased houses and still leave and shop in east london,stratford and surrounding areas.
[quote author=Tudór link=topic=300601.msg5784632#msg5784632 date=1269804026]4. A church adds no economic viability to the area.[/quote]yes it does, the property prices in that area will be positively affected because a number of church members will naturally desire to live nearby,having a church in that area will drive business up for shops both corner shop,supermarkets,higher revenue for the borough from the church than a cinema, this is just me living in manchester how much more a proper research done on its perceived economic influence
[quote author=Tudór link=topic=300601.msg5784632#msg5784632 date=1269804026]5. The protesters would like the premises to maintain its official status as a 'public and leisure' building.[/quote]maybe they should have thought of that before leaving the premises dis used or run down for k.i.c.c to approach the councill,pay for the building or in the process of paying for it e.t.c i dont see k.i.c.c offering odeon cinema money to sell their cinemas do you?
[quote author=Tudór link=topic=300601.msg5784632#msg5784632 date=1269804026]6. A cinema also entered the bidding process to get the building but was outbid by KICC.[/quote]so we are both agreed that kicc won the bid fair and square?
and also that the community or the protesters were well aware of the parties involved in the bidding process,but never raised any objection untill kcc won right?
[quote author=Tudór link=topic=300601.msg5784632#msg5784632 date=1269804026]7. The residents mainly prefer the cinima company to be given the building as it'll both preserve the original use of the property as well as adding economic viability to the community.[/quote]from the little i know of bidding and stuffs, every party bidding for a particular building are known to the public so that an organised crime group e.t.c will not end up winning the bid,secondly particular demographics,companies or types of business are excluded if they have reasons to do so an example that readily comes to mind was the time 2/3 years ago when a nigerian consortium were trying to buy manchester city,even though they could afford it,they were not allowed to pay the asking price the manchester city board wanted,same goes for shinawatra who was advised to sell because of the coruption case he was involved in,hence if they saw nothing wrong with k.i.c.c being one of the bidders,how come they are now suddenly seen as undesirables?
lastly an important issue we seemto be forgetting is that the protesters,are not the majority in crystal palace,hence the fact that a number of residents cant be bothered either due to famlial/work e.t.c committments does not mean that they do not want the church.i am sure we are also both agreed that there are well over 10,000 people at least in the whole of crystalpalace hence less than 4000 is hardly a majority
[quote author=Tudór link=topic=300601.msg5784632#msg5784632 date=1269804026]Now, HOW DOES THIS MAKE THEM RACISTS??[/quote]by the few reasons i have given in reply to your bullet points,and secondly by a parallel instance which i have posted the link you could check on yahoo news as well and see the similarities with this paticular case theirs is even worse because the councill were opposed unlike k.i.c.c but they won fair and square in a law court
[quote author=Tudór link=topic=300601.msg5784632#msg5784632 date=1269804026]whats the difference between this and a group of individuals who protest that a disco hall had won and been awarded a property instead of a grocery store company - which woulda created alot of jobs and commerce - who came second in the bid? I guess according to your almighty wisdom they're racists too?
This is silly, are we talking about right and wrong here?[/quote]well the instance you have given is hardly similar is it?a club or disco hall or any business of that sort will definitely destabilise a family serene community, apart from the incessant noise it will attract undesirables,crime to the area.
k.i.c.c being a church will mop up the undesirables and mnace in that community,and i am yet to see a instance where k.i.c.c or any bible believing church has attracted crime to an area[quote author=Tudór link=topic=300601.msg5784632#msg5784632 date=1269804026]I simply asked you to show there's a racist motive behind this protest and you're bleating off topic.[/quote]well,i really cant do much "shopwing" or explanations if you have closed your mind off to learning what you obviously are ignorant about can i?

babs787:
@God son2009
Quote
so the sun actually rises then??so out of curiousity do you pray towards the sun looking down or up??
LMAO
Did you read my question or probably avoiding it:
Could you please provide answers to the above?

i see you are using this as a get out clause,dont worry i understand that is a little hard for a muslim to justify but more of those kinda assertions are still coming why do muslims bow down to a sun?isnt it a strange co incidence thaat the names of one of the three godesses is corelations to the sun?and the other the moon and you muslims worship both and u have the cheek to say sunday is dedicated to sun god

babs787:
He did not and there are several hadiths on that as well. You are not being sincere to yourself. Your problem is lack of arabic knowledge.

lol typical,so what did he say in the arabic 419 version??that the beating means to massage their bodies with a cane i wouldnt be suprised if something has been changed in the quran again,after all people tried to expunge the satanic embarrassing verses lol

babs787:
You should be bold enough to provide that if you are honest yourself and your religion. Just let me have your claim and you should know that I have not been following your posts, as such did not see where you posted your facts and would appreciate if you could just copy and paste for me to see.
Just like what I said up. If you had actually generated what you claimed to have posted from your brain, it would not be too difficult to do a reposte unless you might lifted them from one of your dilusional websites and could not lay hands where you got them.

loool i am simply trying to be like you now,i wont bother myself posting anything untill you begin to address my own questions as well,all you do is ask ask,and never answer too bad if you think i cant lay my hands on the facts i have posted,but i will repeat again,i have less than 5000 postings so a quick wizz through will confirm or not

babs787:
This is what I have

4. Such of your women as have passed the age of monthly courses, for them the prescribed period, if ye have any doubts, is three months, and for those who have no courses (it is the same): for those who are pregnant, their period is until they deliver their burdens: and for those who fear Allah, He will make things easy for them.

Any relationship?

to know if theres any relationship i.e of the quranic verse to what i answered to,you can simply go back and look at the specific comment i replied to,dont be lazy sire it wont take more than some secs i have said that i will not do all the work for u again

babs787:
Calm down. You can never know the Quran more than I do. Dude, you know if we decide to accept what you are grasping at, it means those not covering their eyes are sinners huh. Could you show me where it says it is a sin not to cover the eyes.

When you are able to, I would dig deep into the verses that are giving you nightmare.

synchroooooo,synchro system sire,you have used this same synchro system to avoid answering my question up there about muslims worshipping or bowing down to the sun, so you r using the same system now? you asked me to show yu where it was in the quran i showed you,and i even added the hadiths you r now using synchro system to skillfully side step it wont work!!!looooooool

babs787:
WAIT . It seems you have nothing to say to the exposure provided up . You could see that women are not given the authority to preach or stand preaching in the church just as we are having churches where husband and wives deliver sermon.

i thot you said you were once a christian sire?you see what i mean when i say there is a differene between being a "xtian" and being "aa christian" and being" a born again christian" you were a "xtian" it was apostle paul's personal views concerning the relationship of a man and woman,show me where jesus christ said the same thing i challenge you when apostle paul said that he will preffer men not to marry,was he saying that as a command or his own views?

babs787:
.Na wa o. Who made them prophets? You further exposed the fraud in that book. Where was it written that God sent the above mentioned and if we are going to accept partly your claimec up, dont you think that it contradicted what your Paul said that:

loool was it a suprise for youi bet you would not have believed it in a million years that there were female prophets??/that is the power of GOD for you,thank GOD i didnt add these names to the bible loooooool,where was it written that mohammad was a prophet in the same bible that he serially plagiarisedafter all what he kept saying was that the prophets in the bible and the biblical accounts would validate him as a prophet, apostle paul was a servant of GOD,same as pastor adeboye,same as kathryn kulman,same as joh g lake e.t.c HE WAS NOT A GOD1 even though he did wonderous works than the men and woman of GOD i have given instances of and all you have highlighted below !WERE APOSTLE PAUL'S OWN PERSONAL VIEWS" i thought you were once a christian sire,did you ever go to church or read past the first page in that bible??

babs787:
"Let the women learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.[/b] For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression." (I Timothy 2:11-14)

"Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law[b]. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church." (I Corinthians 14:34-35)

Do we say Paul lied or that they were not prophetess and that there was no law as said by Paul. It is not even new as we are having prophetess in many so called house of GOD. . RFLMAO .

no sire,we say that GOD never excluded females from being his servants,as proven by the old testament,show me where GOD said or jesus christ said that women were never to be prophets or work ashis servants,then we r in business lol
unless you are saying that apostle paul is a god,then i will equate his words with that of jesus christ and the almighty GOD

babs787:
When you finish deceiving yourself, we would unveil the so called 'prophetess' as ordained by God. I still dey kampe

and just like obasanjo who still dey kampe,keep on deluding yourself sire,i have shown you the prophetess in the bible like you requested so you are totally free to eat your words and your vomit publicly or apologise fo saying that islam is on the same par with christianity

babs787:
Thou shall not lie. This is your post I responded to:

So?
This is what I have in verse 23:

23. And if ye are in doubt as to what We have revealed from time to time to Our servant, then produce a Sura like thereunto; and call your witnesses or helpers (If there are any) besides Allah, if your (doubts) are true. [b][/b]

Na wa o

quran 2;223 do you enjoy just intentionally muddling things up even when you know what i meant or you simply dont have a clue and you know more about that quran than i do?? shouldnt you be correcting me or you r too ashamed toloooool

babs787:
You would always be tired when you have no response to give to my questions

no sire,i am tired because you simply do not answer any single question

yippeee yes they are,and the pentecostal churches in britain the redeemed e.t.c are no more opening new branches every week bt closing their churches loooool
paper and ink na free and anyone can use their mouth to write nything looool
professor coleman did you count the number of christian pentecostals in uk as well because i am as sure as anything nobody counted me and my passport details doesnt state my religion so i wonder

[quote author=Tudór link=topic=300601.msg5757936#msg5757936 date=1269439608]lol typical bushman-JJC-to-civilisation attitude, now handheld = iphone or bb. How silly, . .
Its show offs like you who take gadgets as status symbols.A £20 nokia phone with internet is also handheld or do you put up yours on your forehead?(yea uou prolly do that with a text book balanced on your head, just to announce you as an 'academic'). . . As an aside, even nursery school teaching assistants claim to be ''academics'' these days.[/quote]lol well then so we r agred that either it is either a £20 nokia phone,bb or iphone my point still remains that there was no need for advertisement.dont blame me for thinking the nigerian attitude was shiningthrough because there simply was no need or the announcement,for all i know you might be using a £10 crappy phone after all there is complete anonymity on the internet lol bushman??well if i am still a bushman after many years sojourn in your country by birth i reckon,and mine by aquired britico p then you british ppl have not done such a good job then have you
[quote author=Tudór link=topic=300601.msg5757936#msg5757936 date=1269439608]no offense but you've not said anything in this thread other than screaming racism without proof. . .do they also call it ''empty barrel'' in the academia?I disagree, i think its coz they listen to racist lunatics who scream racism at the slightest opportunity prolly hoping sue and 'compensation pay checks'- i've seen this happen many timesoh 'mr academic' the bnp, and the good people of crystal palace are merely expressing thier views too right?[/quote]lol i can imagine you huffing and puffing while writing your retort,cause your comments are so abrasive and dripping with vitriol my dear sister you need to really calm down so you dont burst a crucial artery in your brain,as it seems you are taking this wayyy too personal,while i love you and everyone else i come across if you are making ignorant and naive comments i will point them out to you,as for the academic you keep on mentioning dont blame me,i suffered for it so if i shout from the roof tops that i have achieved this then with all sense of humility i deserve it and my sleepless nights,migraines will bear me witness. if it is a sore point for you,then simply goback to school after all theres student loans and bursaries as a catalyst, again i will re iterate that if .you have not learnt anything from my comments then i refer back to the analogy i made about the pebble in the ocean this particular part of your comments have shown that you have absolutely no clue about what is going on around you and i simly cant help you if you r not willing to learn. as for calling me a lunatic and all sorts,well im not really suprised as i have come to the firm conclusions that most times the wording,style eloquence e.t.c of our comments online is a clear reflection of our personalities in the real world
[quote author=Tudór link=topic=300601.msg5757936#msg5757936 date=1269439608]Yet you imply they are racists,how funny. . . I guess '' you're soooo into you delusions'' too, right?Mr academic, your EVIDENCE THAT THE PEOPLE OF CRYSTAL PALACE are racists, is what?? I thought you boasted few posts ago that you debate with 'academic and scientific facts'? Why is this so hard for you?[/quote]i will try my best to explain again,hopefully you will get it now, first of all there is direct and indirect racism, it is in all criminological textbooks,it is not my word or creation,second there is unwitting racism or racism with intent,protests such as this comes under both its a mixture of both while there are some people who are genuinely campaigning because they will love the reopening of the cinema in their community the majority protest have racial undertones.
1.why was the place shut for probably years without a cinema,and they didnt make any effort to re open it?
2.the reasons for their rejection is not the fact that the church will cause a disturbance,but the fact that they want their community cinema back
3.i dot know crystal palace area that much because i dnt live in london,but i can assure you that there will be more than one odeon or amc e.t.c cinemas around their geographical areas
now while these reasons i have given might not be the main reasons,they are compelling reasons which have shown that "as budding academic"(yea i said it again suck it up!!lol) there is more to do with that particular protest than what they are saying i hope you also realise that racism is not in just the way it is shown or what people do,it is more about what people do not do or ignore, if a white person or brown or whatever leaves u sat at your table and serves others it might be as a result of racial prejudice but you might feel its just normal
[quote author=Tudór link=topic=300601.msg5757936#msg5757936 date=1269439608]I awit your proof that the residents of cp run away from every blackman they see, this should be a simple task for mr super academic shouldnt it?what is this? How does this prove your assertion therz a racist motive behind this resistance? AGAIN I ASK, where is your EVIDENCE to show the residents are RACIALLY biased towards the church or its leadership?[/quote]my dear sister,you have again over simplified the issue here,this is not the way my own mind works,if you r thinking this way then why dont you show me proof that racial segregation was wrong?? after all what the white people did was to foster unity within the black community by creating a seperate door,toilet e.t.c for them to use right?lol
why dont you show me proof that rracial profiling is racist then??after all the overwhelming number of black people that are stopped and searched are most likely to have committed a crime or about to right??
remember the police actually conduct these stop and search in inner city urbane areas, so why do you think academics,politicians e.t.c have condemned it as wrong??
after all going by your thinking there is no clear cut physical evidence
[quote author=Tudór link=topic=300601.msg5757936#msg5757936 date=1269439608], Crime is crime and sin is sin irrespective of which specifics or did the bible ashimolowo sold you omit that?[/quote]true,you are right,and his bible i presume didnt omit that but i bought my bible online in praisegate ministeries
[quote author=Tudór link=topic=300601.msg5757936#msg5757936 date=1269439608]its wierd aint it? A 'man of god' would merchandise the word of god but distribute a self-promoting book for free.[/quote]hmmnnn, your proly right,but hey!salvation is an individual thing so i m sure on the day of judgement i or you wont be answering for whatever might be his or anyone's short comings but ours secondly if he has painstakingly researched,and written books out of his own knowledge and time then shouldnt h be rewarded for that?so if darren brown is justified to make money from his toil,should a man of GOD be excluded from that rule?
[quote author=Tudór link=topic=300601.msg5757936#msg5757936 date=1269439608]Hmmmoh really? Well since you solely give credit to the ''church'' for kepping nigeria together[/quote]i'm not sure i did that all i said was that the church in nigeria have played a major role concerning social responsibilty,they have taken it upon themselves where the government have failed even though it is a government responsibility.tb joshua is a private pastor or prophet with a private ministry but he is doing more for the community,widows,armed robbers e.t.c than the local government is doing surely he deserves credit for that same as others,imagine if the christians had retaliated without listening to men and women of GOD in the last os massacre will there be peace in that region ttoday?i dont think so please reasn objectively my dear sister
[quote author=Tudór link=topic=300601.msg5757936#msg5757936 date=1269439608]I guess credit should also go to the CHURCH fOR the bangladeshi, white and black youths who aren't in jail in the Uk, right?[/quote]no credit should be given to the islamic community as well did you know that an average asian is more likely to make bail than an average black youth?simply because the crminal justice system recognises that they have a stable familial,community life than the average black person all the police need to do most times is to go to the local mosque and the head imams will take charge of the whole situation,they see the imam both old and young as the rallying point so you are actually not far off the mark
[quote author=Tudór link=topic=300601.msg5757936#msg5757936 date=1269439608]You are a genius! Pls when u open up that primary school of yours in naija remind me to recommend every racist bigot n their offspring to u for 'education' so they can be ''academics'' like u,[/quote]no i am not a genius but i know i am pretty brilliant though lol came out with a first okie i will do thanks a lot,i am trying to put my little money where my mouth is hence the initiative ,again like i have re iterated in my past comments strive to read on these issues,broaden your mind and learn that things are not just the way they seem with a cursory look and you will be the better for itxxshalom
how was church today,hope you were blessed? shalom

[quote author=Tudór link=topic=300601.msg5743203#msg5743203 date=1269266163]I'm on a handheld device and as I tried to quote your empty jargons up there it nearly chrased my device.[/quote]typical nigerian, lol now we know you r using a b/b or iphone get over it!!
[quote author=Tudór link=topic=300601.msg5743203#msg5743203 date=1269266163]You're all words and no substance[/quote]im very sorry if nothing is getting into your brain i inspite of everything written on here, you ll agree with me that a pebble in the atlantic ocean for years if brought out and cracked open will still remain dry in the middle "ms hand held device"
[quote author=Tudór link=topic=300601.msg5743203#msg5743203 date=1269266163]and from what I can glean from your posts its obvious you are a closet racist.[/quote]and from what i have deduced from your posts,its obvious you are not only incredibly delusional,but you are amongst the demographics of black people malcolm x refers to as uncle tom,in your case the female aunty tom for want of a better word
[quote author=Tudór link=topic=300601.msg5743203#msg5743203 date=1269266163]And this is such a pity as more and more black people mainly immigrants have this disgusting ideology.[/quote]well guess they have actually picked up a couple of books and statistics and educated themselves then,i enjoin you to do the same it ll help develop you intelectually so you dont show yourself up as being a mental pygmy when discussing current affairs.
btw hope you realise you are an immigrant as well?
[quote author=Tudór link=topic=300601.msg5743203#msg5743203 date=1269266163]The other day that racist lunatic called No2Atheism justifying his refusal to leave the UK despite calling the whiteman the devil was telling me of his plan to organise fellow minded black africans so they can take over the european economy. . .what a laugh!This got me laughing. . . . Academic and scientific indeed.[/quote]well i wouldnt go as far as that,counter productive if you ask me, but calling an individual a racist lunatic for airing his views shows you are sooooo into your delusions that it is simply hilarious now even the average bnp or national front wont go that far lol lolblack people and overdoing things lol
well,if academia and science got you laughing,dont be annoyed if the only conclusions i have arrived at is that a university degree is alien to you or you simply cannot fathom the correlation between social science and contemporary british society.
[quote author=Tudór link=topic=300601.msg5743203#msg5743203 date=1269266163]Where is your so-called academic and scientific basis to show the residents oppose this church in their neighbourhood has a racial undertone??[/quote]simply because if there was an overriding concern for community safety or any other concerns,the local authority will not put their necks on the line for a minority ethnic church, we both at least agree that he didnt bribe them hence they would have been above board in granting the relevant lincences he needed to purchase the property and get the planning permissions
[quote author=Tudór link=topic=300601.msg5743203#msg5743203 date=1269266163]You just barged into the thread and started screaming racism! Racism![/quote]no ma,i didnt "barge in"its not my style i simply made my comments and took you up on some naive(i dont want to use the word ignorant"comments you made
[quote author=Tudór link=topic=300601.msg5743203#msg5743203 date=1269266163]Your evidence is what? Are there no other blacks living in that same neighbourhood?[/quote]i beg your pardon if i dont respond to this infantille comment,apart from that it is overly simplistic
[quote author=Tudór link=topic=300601.msg5743203#msg5743203 date=1269266163]You claim to not like islam and what it stands for. . .no biggie. But the white man displays islamophobia- BIG DEAL! You scream its racism. . . .give me a break abeg.[/quote]that was my own personal opinion,i wont run away from every bushy bearded pakistani or black muslim,or raise intolerant xenophobic views upon them that is the major difference btween me and the racist far right parties you seem to be overtly justifying, i ll just advice you not to come out anytime they are around because they dont know the difference between a black face with a british passport or a black face who is just new off the proverbial banana boat.
[quote author=Tudór link=topic=300601.msg5743203#msg5743203 date=1269266163]Could the good ol' people just be opposed to the church for the reasons they stated?[/quote]could be,theres a chance however there must be a reason why the cinema closed up shop in the first place and remained so untill the church bought the place over, i dont see amc or odeon selling any of their cinemas anytime soon do you?
[quote author=Tudór link=topic=300601.msg5743203#msg5743203 date=1269266163]I too would protest if such a church were to appear in my neighbourhood. . . I guess according to you academic genius that automatically makes me a racist, right?[/quote]no it doesnt,as long asyou dont hold racially biased views towards the church or its leadership,and as long as you have totally objective and legitimate reasons for your opposition.i ll accept it if you came out to say you work nights and you need your rest on a sunday morning when the churches will be making their noise
[quote author=Tudór link=topic=300601.msg5743203#msg5743203 date=1269266163]Alcapone was arrested severally and released until he was finally indicted- prior to his indictment everyone knew he was a mobster. The only thing was the law couldn't get him until one day. . . Ashimolowo's time is coming.[/quote]wow,wow easy, you are brimming over with resentment for this man,this is not just a simple issue of the thread, is there anything you need to reveal to everyone on here?
i wouldnt compare a drunk and drug dealer with alcapone how much more a man of GOD, now im starting to see that your motives are coloured with a severe amount of personal resentment for the man
[quote author=Tudór link=topic=300601.msg5743203#msg5743203 date=1269266163]I'm glad to hear he gave the book out for free. It's wonderful to note that a man of God to save face and advertise himself would print books and give them out out FREE but to spread the gospel of Jesus Christ God sent him he charges a compulsory fee where everyone who wants the material must pay[/quote]so he is saving face now??lol if he took money for it he s prolly greedy right i guess the man can never win with you can he? how many places have you been to where he harged you a fee to come into the venue?
[quote author=Tudór link=topic=300601.msg5743203#msg5743203 date=1269266163]. . .how grande.I find this quite ironic and funny. . . This is a fellow who just implied I was deluded but comes here crying because I asked him "Are you ok?".[/quote]dont be annoyed,i asked a simple innocent question,because you have exhibited signs of being severely disillutioned by your comments,i am struggling to see the corellation between pastor ashimolowo giving books out free and you being accused of being delusional??am i missing something
[quote author=Tudór link=topic=300601.msg5743203#msg5743203 date=1269266163]BTW, with the proliferation of churches in Nigeria I guess the youths are exemplary in good behaviour due to absence of "boredom" and "familial/social" affilations, right? Hurray!![/quote]well,at least majority of them are engaged in a sort of venture excluding them from indulging in stabbings and armed robbery ventures e.t.c they would have engaged in, in a country of more than 150 million with t least 30/40% being youths the fact that the country is not in flames is a credit to them,compare it to uk with a population of less than half of nigeria and london with less than a couple of local government in lagos and the number of stabbings and killingsdo you know the percentage of black british youths between the ages of 13-25 in prison ?
out of every 100,000 asian youths,black youths and white youths do you know which of the racial demographics is over represented in the criminal justice system of your country? i bet you didnt know
did you know that the bangladeshi community have more youths than the black community in fact about 50% yet,black youths are like double the number of asian community,not just bangladesh in the criminal justice system?bet you didnt know that
i ll advice you not to debate on the strenght of newspapers and bbc but actually mentally engage yourself by reading then you can objectively judge issueswithout jumping into a tantrum when people disagree with you calling them names
[quote author=Tudór link=topic=300601.msg5743203#msg5743203 date=1269266163]Academic my arse![/quote]not suprised,i deduced as much from your earlier comment lol

babs787:
@Godson2009
Sorry sir. We do not bow down to the sun and if you have your fact, let me have it and I am also asking you that

who do we pray to when the sun

Rises in the East.
Sets in the west
Is not up?

so the sun actually rises then??so out of curiousity do you pray towards the sun looking down or up??
[quote author=babs787 link=topic=196428.msg5752427#msg5752427 date=1269369040]I dont even need to interprete the above but you need to first understand the arabic word used for 'struck' and when you are able to, then you will get the clearer picture of it. The Holy Prophet has not struck someone except in battle field

You may read these for further clarification

"Whoever strikes his slave in the face or beats him unjustly, his expiation is to manumit him." Narrated from Ibn `Umar by Muslim in his Sahih.

Narrated Mu'awiyah al-Qushayri: "I went to the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) and asked him: What do you say (command) about our wives? He replied: Give them food what you have for yourself, and clothe them by which you clothe yourself, and do not beat them, and do not revile them. (Sunan Abu-Dawud, Book 11, Marriage (Kitab Al-Nikah), Number 2139)"

and you think this hollow explanation with some mundane hadiths wash with me??you must be kiddng sire, he advocated for the beating of women and you are ptrobably the first muslim i have ever seen dispute this shows the delusion in which you have approached islam and i am the blind follower
[quote author=babs787 link=topic=196428.msg5752427#msg5752427 date=1269369040]Really? You may start from Genesis to Malachi and let me have them. Are you referring to story of Adam or the 5 books you blindly claimed was penned down by Moses in which he wrote his obituary and another prophet that you claimed wrote the revelation and might have written his obituary as well? Maybe you are still referring to where God ate with Moses and the rest. I have list of them (you know I was blind like you).

theres no need to i dont want to bother you sire lol,a perusal of your book of confusion will immediately highlight the biblical stories therein with the names changed ibrahim-abraham,isa-isaac, abrahaam and his faith in trying to sacrifice his son which the muslims have hinged on as their sallah celebrations e.t.c
dont worry about any list as long as we are both agreed that christianity was around before mohammad originated his religion of islam and secondly that it takes an original for a copy to emerge

babs787:
I have not seen them and you could do that for please

im sorry i cant help you on that if you cant make the effort to simply check my earlier comments and find them,you are leaning back relaxing on your own chair and u expect me to bust my chops repeating myself and re cycling and looking for the verses i have already posted severally a simple check will reveal if i am lieing or telling the truth

babs787:
Go siddon. Your bible does not teach you to lie . Why not say it is supposed to be 65:4? Know your bible very well before trying to debate my religion with me.

a simple check in your quran for the 65;4 and then corellate it with the specific comment i made will highlight the pertinent facts so why are you ranting without any cause

babs787:
I can see that you are just grasping at strays .Could you provide me the hadith that says you must compulsorily cover yourself from head to toe including your eyes.
I want to learn from you.

i made an assertion and a simple yes or no will suffice.i said the female muslims have to cover themselves and i need a yes or no answer however
quran 24;31 ll answer your questions adequately.

And say to the believing women that they cast down their looks and guard their private parts and do not display their ornaments except what appears thereof, and let them wear their head-coverings over their bosoms, and not display their ornaments except to their husbands or their fathers, or the fathers of their husbands, or their sons, or the sons of their husbands, or their brothers, or their brothers' sons, or their sisters' sons, or their women, or those whom their right hands possess, or the male servants not having need (of women), or the children who have not attained knowledge of what is hidden of women; and let them not strike their feet so that what they hide of their ornaments may be known; and turn to Allah all of you, O believers! so that you may be successful

quran 33;59, O Prophet! Tell thy wives and daughters, and the believing women, that they should cast their outer garments over their persons (when abroad): that is most convenient, that they should be known (as such) and not molested. And Allah is Oft- Forgiving, Most Merciful

babs787:
"Let the women learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression." (I Timothy 2:11-14)

"Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church." (I Corinthians 14:34-35)

while i acknowledge these verses unlike muslims who are still suffering from delusions,,the bible does not simply rest on its oars and the same apostle paul went further to tell christians in ephesians 5;25-end that

25Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26to make her holy, cleansing[b] her by the washing with water through the word, 27and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. 28In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29After all, no one ever hated his own body, but he feeds and cares for it, just as Christ does the church— 30for we are members of his body. 31"For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh."[c] 32This is a profound mystery—but I am talking about Christ and the church. 33However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.
as you can see,the same apostle paul enoins the man to have the same unconditional love withut equation christ had for the church,for his wife,

babs787:
Do not use question to answer question . I asked, 'was there any female messenger/prophet? If not, where do these women get their inspiration from when they were told to remain silent?

im struggling to see how you have brought me this far out as a digression from my opriginal question,what started all this rigmarole is simply because you have refused to acknowledge that there is gender inequality in islam,i said women were not permitted to stand in front f the men to preach and you tried to justify it by asking me if there were female prophets in the bible even though the likes of esther saved the whole generation of his people from certain death and he bible acknowledged it,however in order to highlight your ignorance of the bible which you gleefully claim to know about here are female prophets in the bible,

exodus 15;20, prophetess miriam, 20 Then Miriam the prophetess, Aaron's sister, took a tambourine in her hand, and all the women followed her, with tambourines and dancing.

prophetess deborah, judges 4;4-5, 4 Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lappidoth, was leading [a] Israel at that time. 5 She held court under the Palm of Deborah between Ramah and Bethel in the hill country of Ephraim, and the Israelites came to her to have their disputes decided.

prophetess huldah, 2nd kings 22;14, 14 Hilkiah the priest, Ahikam, Acbor, Shaphan and Asaiah went to speak to the prophetess Huldah, who was the wife of Shallum son of Tikvah, the son of Harhas, keeper of the wardrobe. She lived in Jerusalem, in the Second District.
for clarification ,
2nd kings 34;22, Hilkiah and those the king had sent with him [b] went to speak to the prophetess Huldah, who was the wife of Shallum son of Tokhath, [c] the son of Hasrah, [d] keeper of the wardrobe. She lived in Jerusalem, in the Second District.

new testament,
luke 2;36
prophetess anna, There was also a prophetess, Anna, the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Asher. She was very old; she had lived with her husband seven years after her marriage

prophetess noadiah, nehemiah 6;14b, remember also the prophetess Noadiah and the rest of the prophets who have been trying to intimidate me.

babs787:
Are you saying you do not understand simple English Language ? There is a difference between leading in prayers and not answering prayers

hmmn,i see, for the benefit of those of us who dont have a simple comprehension of english could you give us the reasons why women were not complete or qualified enoughto lead the men in prayers if they have been gifted in islamic/quranic knowledge?thanks lol that is why i came to the conclusion that the only reason i wouldnt allow anyone to lead me in prayers is if my prayers wont be answered or their prayers over me wont be answered, waiting,

babs787:
Comprehension problem

i hear u,but still waiting,

babs787:
Read the verses please and get in touch.

i have read the verses,and i also read the verses of the quran where the woman or female's are treated as being less than the men example,
quran 2;23, Your wives are as a tilth unto you; so approach your tilth when or how ye will; but do some good act for your souls beforehand; and fear God. And know that ye are to meet Him (in the Hereafter), and give (these) good tidings to those who believe.
in other words,your wives are like an article or a property to you,so while slave trade has ended several hundred years ago,women in islam are still under a perpetual slave ownersip basis,

babs787:
one of the abrogated verses, the vmedinan verse that abrogated the meccan verse concerning jihad of the sword, quran 2;191

your point being

babs787:
Na wa. You are one of those that trade this world for hereafter. You try to stop people from seeing the truth but na lie o, truth has come, falsehood has perished

19. Have ye seen Lát. and Ùzza,

20. And another, the third (goddess), Manát?

21. What! for you the male intimacy, and for Him, the female?

22. Behold, such would be indeed a division most unfair!

23. These are nothing but names which ye have devised,- ye and your fathers,- for which Allah has sent down no authority (whatever). They follow nothing but conjecture and what the souls desire!- Even though there has already come to them Guidance from their Lord! [/b]


Read the last verse (23) for understanding.

Quran 17 v 72-73 is even for you could not see the truth and wants to lead muslims astray:


72. But those who were blind in this world, will be blind in the hereafter, and most astray from the Path.[b]

73. And their purpose was to tempt thee away from that which We had revealed unto thee, to substitute in our name something quite different; (in that case), behold! they would certainly have made thee (their) friend![b][/b]

i dont know who you think you are trying to rabble dazzle with this epistle which frankly is a whole load of ramblings, i didnt know you could even justify what mohammad himself acknowledged as the devil trying to tempt him one thing i will say for you is that i am impressed and i am sure you would probably have done a better job given the chance mohammad had, shows that even you his followers are more intelligent than he was

babs787:
False,who do we pray to when the sun is not up?

im tired of this childish tit for tat, simply answer my question do you pray looking downwards or upwards or sidewayssimple!!!

babs787:
False. I asked you question sir. Do not try to play smart.

yes you did ask me a question, in order to escape from what is turning out to an embarassing admission for you i though you were ready to answer all the questions thrown at you ?i argued that you muslims worsjhipped or venerated the sun and amongst several reasons i said you bowed down to the sun when praying,you came up with some unclear euation of how the sun rises whioch has cotradicted your pont already. now i am asking you again if you pray looking up or down, i am expecting you to look straight down seeing as you said the sun doesnt "rise"

babs787:
i asked you a question but you did not answer it, as usual

no sire,that is totally false your questins ddoesnt even task me mentally,not because of my intelligence but because christianity and the bible has made it easy for us to defend and justify everything contained therein unlike your book of confusion

babs787:
Where is the question? Should I tag you Coward and an escapist


Allegation without proof

allegations without prof??more like delusions and selective amnesia rather than being roundly embarassed more like!!

babs787:
Has your friend not provided the answer or you have realised but do not want to accept the truth.

realised that what exactly??you are raising some points about an unclear contention of jesus christ either dieing or not what has that got to do with my believes?
why dont you tell me how you muslims have reconciled mohammad's vices and moral execesses with his claim of being a prophet then i will answer you promptly??
a prophet who killed,murdered in cold blood,was an armed robber who robbed innocent meccan travellers,idulged in serial hedonism,paedophilia e.t.c

babs787:
Note; When debating, kindly support it with hadith or verses from Quran as I woud always provide you verses from your book to support my post.

i thought i have been doing that already??maybe you have not been reading my replies or just simply wish that i will keep on posting the same hadiths and qurans still you find an over sight or mistake tolatch on , but tha who help you or dig you out of the embarrasing pottage of mess islam and its volent intolerant doctrines have pushed you into
lastly seeing as you have been asking your own questions,pls let me know if it is my turn to ask you my own questions as well about islam,after all we are in the islam for muslim's section.
shalom [/quote][/quote]

babs787:
@Godson2009


Oga, I know your type and I am used to your infantile debate. I perused your posts and did not see where you have been able to argue/debate intelligently but prefer going in circles. You brought allegation which you could not substantiate and when you were told that your allegations are all lies and requested for your proof, you claimed that someone is making open ended comments.

You should have your if you can not defend or post your claim here.

I am still saying all you posted are lies and if you are truthful, kindly post your proof and we move on.

irrespective of how infantille you might think of my comments simply answer these direct questions,
1.did i back up my assertions about gender inequality in islam yes or no?
2.did i back up my assertions about the inherent violence in islam yes or no?
3.did i back up my assertion about the specific verses reffered to as the satanic verses or not yes or no?
4.did i not elaborate upon the "satanic verse" or not namely the assertion that the names of the godess was same as godess of the sun and one of the three godesss was actually connected to the moon,and how this was connected to islam bowing down to the sun??
simply answer a yes or no , these arew the points or issues of contention between us and i have answered every one of those assertions with the rekllevant hadiths and quranic verses the rest are issues you intentionally try to confuse yourseles over.

as for the holy spirit pointing to mohammad i hope u are satisfied with the bible verses posted by another helpful christian brother here showing conclusive proof that your assertions concerning that is a figment of your imagiations sire

[quote author=Tudór link=topic=300601.msg5739509#msg5739509 date=1269209336]I quite frankly don't care about race, tribe, ethnicity e.t.c. . . I look at my fellow man as a human being and nothing else and if you look well enough you'd find out the majority do so as well.
quit being paranoid,nobody is after you in the uk or are you an illegal immigrant[/quote]my first impulse was to reel out criminological sources showing statistics from the home office,irr hansard e.t.c to support my claim but on second thoughts your stance shows an entrenched sense of delusion so i might as well leave you to wallow in it,illegal immigrant??i bet you are one of those who carry their british passport and stick it on their forehead sorri to dissappoint you but i carry a british passport as well,the difference between us is that i am a realist and know that i am not english just have it for ease of travellfrom point a to b nothing else.
[quote author=Tudór link=topic=300601.msg5739509#msg5739509 date=1269209336]Quit being paranoid, nobody is after you in the UK or are you an illegal immigrant?Dude, u ok? What kind of question is this?[/quote]do you have to be so insultive in every comment you make or are you suffering some sort of insecurity?this is unbecoming of a girl or female, surely you can marshall your points without resorting to verbal barbs, its not helping you at all
all i asked is a simple question,and if you have not heard this assertion before,then go back and read about the bradford riots just before 9/11 go back and read about the emerging islamophobia/xenophobia in the united kingdom i can even post the channeell 4 documentary about islamophobia where this assertions were severally raised,lastly go and google assimilation and intergration problems amongst british asians it will help educate and enlighten you
[quote author=Tudór link=topic=300601.msg5739509#msg5739509 date=1269209336]If they ceased to make religion the center of their lives, wouldnt it be the right thing to prevent religious extremists/fundamentalists/loons ruling the country? How many seats do the BNP have in parliament? Or maybe you should start by asking Nick Griffin how often he attends church.
What the hell are you talking about?[/quote]you get the point i am makin but you are interpreting it in a round about manner,my point is that if they have not made religion the central point in their lives,how come they are suddenly christian or "a christian nation" when it comes to muslim extremists??surely under the united nations human rights act,the muslims including the extremists have a fndamental right of association,same as the bnp nf e.t.c? lol you see the incongruity in your arguments??
maybe you didnt know that they are amassing more seats and more supporters as the days go by,i will like you to do a little google exercise,check how many candidates they had staning in the last election,compared to now,check how many in east london/barking dagenham last election compared to now.
check what mps like baroness farsi said ain support of bnp and i hope you read the new reports about bnp teachers, you need to know what is going on around you and dont bury your head in the sand lady
[quote author=Tudór link=topic=300601.msg5739509#msg5739509 date=1269209336]Oh I see, there was a typo in my post (i was in a hurry, i'm real busy). . . I meant in china factories that add real value are springing up while in Nigeria churches in every street corner are the order of the day. . .clear now?
*Yawn*
Same old story. . . . So the answer to exploitation and undevelopment is to set up 5 churches in every street corner, right?[/quote]i see,so will you rather live and work in china where they have minus zero human rights records even worse than nigeria then?? i bet you dont know anything about the socio political situation in china do you?all you see is the cheap products,the foreign reserves and nothing else if i were to start cataloguing china's exesses i bet your assertion will be that i m being paranoid no?
no but the churches are at least covering up the failure of sucessive governments in serving the interest of minority ethnic youths, guess how many thousands of 10-19 years old black youths will be occupied on an average sunday in k.i.c.c who would otherwise be hanging out on street corners,go and google the first reason youngsters give for getting in gangs, its borredom and familial/sense of belonging which the church is trying its best to give.how many of these youngters in hackney are you ready to foster on a permanent basis if pentecostal churches or k.i.c.c were to be divested of that responsibility?
[quote author=Tudór link=topic=300601.msg5739509#msg5739509 date=1269209336]You people should quit whining about past colonial events. Get up of your arses and WORK, WORK, WORK rather than starving your family in the name of fasting and throwing your last kobo to a holy con man in hope of 100 fold 'returns'.
Yeah I'm quite sure Gilbert Deya wrote his own book explaining all since he's ever still popular in the uk amongst the hungry black africans looking for 'breakthroughs'.[/quote]i am beginning to see a clear pattern of ignorance in your knowldge of politics and current affairs both in the united kingdom context,and internationally otherwise you will not be echoing a pre colonial and archaic pre conceptions about minority ethnic groups.if a white person uttered this assertions he will be vilified.so you believe black people are lazy and only spent money on pastors?if this is the way nigerians in the uk think then no wonder we are not anywhere in the scheme of things i will advice you to educate and re educate yourself
[quote author=Tudór link=topic=300601.msg5739509#msg5739509 date=1269209336]Ashimolowo was ordered to repay the embezzeld funds and no amount of twisting in specially written books can hide the truth.[/quote]for a start the funds were seized by the charity commission pending their investigations which lasted for several years so you have simply missed it on that note,secondly k.i.c.c paid for the investigation not the government and thirdly as at the time the paper were given out the government was yet to release the church funds in their possesion even after concluding their investigations so i dont know where you got your version from.
[quote author=Tudór link=topic=300601.msg5739509#msg5739509 date=1269209336]Out of curiosity, did he give this so called book explaining all for free or like everything else you had to pay for it?
abegi![/quote]suprise suprise,it was free for every member
[quote author=Tudór link=topic=300601.msg5739509#msg5739509 date=1269209336]What is right is right and what is wrong is wrong. . . . Good is good and bad is bad irrespective of racial and ethnic affiliations.[/quote]true and i totally subscribe to that,however as an academic i dont just read what the newspapers and electronic media churn out daily,i read in between the lines and look at the hidden parochial interest because that is the way i was taught in your british universities.when particular issues have a racial colouring then i tend to pick up on it i dont like islam and i have not hidden my dislike for everything islam stands for,but as an academic i know that xenophobia/islamophobia has racial undertones because most of the allegations against them used in justifying stop and search,including the promulgation of anti terro laws of 2001 and the subsequent amendments is false
[quote author=Tudór link=topic=300601.msg5739509#msg5739509 date=1269209336]The people dont want a con man in their neighbourhood because such an organisation adds no value whatsoever to their community. Is that simple.[/quote]i will like to believe you are educated,hence calling a man a fraudster without any evidence is libelious however i guess anything goes on the internet due to its anonymity.as for thevalue added how abouit community cohesion?
how about getting potentially violent black youths off the streets and engaging them?
how about the funds it will accrue to the borough interms of charges taxes e.t.c
ask yourself why the local authority have not resisted moves prior to the residents raising an alarm?
to show you how lucrative the move will be for them,watch if they will suceed in their petition
[quote author=Tudór link=topic=300601.msg5739509#msg5739509 date=1269209336]According to you, a nigerian or black man murders someone or perpetrates fraud we should all rally in support and commendation because like us he's black? You gotta be kidding me.[/quote]you have again validated my earlier assertions about you by over simplifying what is ordinarily a complex issue which clearly has racial undertones.
the over generalising and crass prejudice which has been the hall mark of your coments has shown that you dont know anything at all about the sociological issues going on around you or political isuues for that matter.
start reading and aquinting yourself pyou reckon people like chakrabati,fakete gilroy e.t.c are stupid to advocate for and stand for these issues?
if you notice i have debated with you strictly on an academic//socially scientific basis so that i wont fall in the same rut of simplifying and generalising on hear say and half truths like you have been doing, keep on relying and basing your comments on newspapers and cnn, by the way how many people has pastor ashimolowo killed and how many people has he been proven to have swindled?
if you have the figures for both,then i guess the charity commission in their generousity and magnanimity let him off the hook to continue right?

iice:
[color=#9900ff]Is that all?[/color]

gawd, whateva!!

Dolemite:
Two words low budget, it's the same everywhere in the world, just watch any movie made by Asylum films in America. . .even worse than Nollywood. When you make a movie with chicken change you get poor results. . .and even if a rich Nigerian producer spent 500 million dollars to make a blockbuster, people would still complain and call it a waste of money considering the economic status of the country. People should support the industry, afterall it's the third largest in the world.

budget isnt the problem in nollywood mediocrity is the problem,when you have alaba traders trying to produce movies off the assembly line then this is what you get.
tunde kelani movies dont break the bank yet every single one has been a block buster by nigerian standards.
the fat ibo lady as well,forgotten her name is also an awesome producer.
a good script,dedicated actors and an awesome director will do the magic google how many b movies in hollywood made it to the best seller list,same as some south african movies, nigerian producers have an edge over the rest of africa because they have the potential to reach 150 million viewers

thank you and GOD bless you brother,i can bet you that as usual they will fade away and not retun to rebutt this,in their desire to hang their man made religion to the coat tails of contemporary christianity,they forgot that there is order in christianity and the bible follows through chronologically unlike the quran that has no order from beginning to the end

nopuqeater:
gender inequality my foot. ifthere is any real gender inequality, it is not in Islam, though reains in the community of muslims, christians, ews, and all others, but the doctrine of inequality that is gender based is in christianity, judaism, etc. definitely not in islam. my evidence; while the bible put the blame of the transgression in its garden of eden on women, cursing her with pain of childbirth, Quranm does not do such a thing because the responsibility of the obedience or disobedience to the commandment is borne by adam for himself and hawa for herself. each could have refused the suggestion. and Allah did not curse either of them, rather He accepted their repentance, which was different from the case of the evil, shaitan from the family of jinns.

welcome back ahaji olabowale a.k.a nopuqueater a.k.a lagbaja i knew it was only a matter of time before you took me on,thats why i kept mentioning your name.
i see,let us assume that is the christian explanation for women suffering,what is the islamic explanation for women suffering i.e the pains of childbirth?
i have posted some verses of the quran showing the obvious gender inequality,lets even for get about the past ,in contemporary islam the same thing that obtains 100 of years ago still obtains today,christianity has moved on from the old testament to the new testament where apostle paul enjoins the husband to treat his wife like christ treats the church, with loving kindness,tenderness e.t.c can you tell me why the man should beat the woman for disobedience when she is not a dog or an ass?why cant a husband simply talk to his supposed beloved wife??lets start from there sire

nopuqeater:
compare that with the islamic injunction to beat your wives,,in the hadith which asserts that women are worse than dogs
muslim women have burnt the proverbial 'bra' and and truly entered the woman liberation from the very first revelaion of mere 5 verses out of over 6000 that the Quran contained. they were already seasoned by the time the prophet died [as], the reason killing of daughters stopped among the cronic practisers.

are you talking about the same quran that gives the male child a double portion of inheritance?
the same quran that allows one male witness double that if it is a woman?
the same quran which advocated for the man to marry as manyy as he can but the woman to remain quiet,resolute and long suffering no matter what?
alhaji i wont let u off this assertion that easy because it is simply not true

nopuqeater:
women were able t own properties and no more properties themselves, the reason women still bear their family names even as they are married. women were able to speak up, the reason they participated in the convenant, oath [bayah] to muhammad [as] in udabiyyah.

i see,so is a pious and faithful woman allowed to come outside and sit in the living room with her husband and his male friends? lets assume its a very hot day and she has been cleaning the kitchen wearing a teeshirt and over size jogger buttoms is she allowed to sit down and freely discuss with them??especially without covering herself up

nopuqeater:
have you ever heard of the women around the prophets? women became teaches in the faith, they teached Quran which they memorized, narrated ahadiths.

so one question,are they allowed to teach men who can learn from them?
are they allowed to stand on the podium and publicly teach men in the mosque then?surely they should be if the genders are equal in islam

nopuqeater:
today the process of separation of thegenders in academic setting allows the women to speak up, video as tool of education, both have been with muslims, while the west is just waking up to them, etc. Aisha [ra] took opposite side of Ali Bin Abitalib [ra] the kalifah; why, because of freedom of choice, to speak up, and to stand as individual. and by the way no one wll bear another's responsibily, the reason every religious law and obligation is covering each person regardless of gender. the oppressor of female gender is not the muslims; american women ar still fighting for equality, even today. even black people are still fighting for equality, though obama is the president. surprise surpise, is a thing hat christianity throws out to people to surprise them.

tell me,does islam allow the female to challenge the male without any form of repercussions??if you say yes i will like you to show me the quranic verse aqnd i will show u the quranic verse which doesnt allow the female to challenge the male's authority especially husband and wife.
if no one will bear the other's responsibility,why then are the women not given liberation from the men so that they can freely pursue their destinies and be responsible for whatever they makle of it?

nopuqeater:
if there is a satanic verse, which you said is abrogated; show meits satanic content, and show me the abrogation, if you cant show me what is satanic in the verse or verses you are lying about, and show us abrogated verses to have been written before or after it to take its place, then you shoul be ashamed of your shameless lies.

i have posted the satanic verses which you can clearly see in the same page so i wont bother posting it again,however a simple google search,without going into my own personal sources will tell you that the satanic verses which was words mohammad uttered after being aledgedly tempted to say so, i personally think its a load of bollocks and i believe that mohammadf in mecca was facing persecution ,leading a religion that was still weak wanted to endear the general pagan meccans to himself,betrayed his own religious principles and venerated the pagan gods of mecca, there is owever something i will like to add which i discovered like november last year do you know that 2 of the godesses were actually sun gods and afiliated with the moon
im sure you understand where i am going with that and what i am inferring,however you are perfectly at liberty to explore this further,when i discovered this i was astonished some godess mohammaed briefly vvenerated and justified their existence were afiliated to the sun and moon,muslims bow down to the sun and use the moon to sight their festivals connect 2 and 2 together,

nopuqeater:
abrogation in the Quraan occurs when a better verse or a verse of equal value is brought about to replace a condition which was addressed before; for xample, abrogation of verse which cautioned about drinking alcohol as time of salah is near, to never to drink it at all. if you cant produce the satanic verse, and or what replaced it or what it replaced as in the abrogation, then, darn man, shot your freakin trap because your statementis withou merit, justlike your trinity to be One God, yet jesus was no better in character and quality than human nd human messenger, prophet [as].

alhaji,i am suprised,i have never known you to loose your temper like uplawal are you in a bad mood?your son will not be pleased at this kind of example pls calm down i know what abrogation means in fact i have a nice journal on it i can avail you off anytime you want it.but just like the rest of islamic doctrines it is hollow and of no real religious impact, a man wrote a set of prophecies and injunctiions,he realises he has made a series of mistakes,he goes back and then corrects himself,what is genius about that??
i can write a load of gibberish and then go back and correct myself,like criminologists will say,you cannot use captured criminals as a controll sample because the smart criminals are the ones who have never being caught by the police, so if mohammad was that smart,then he wouldnt have to correct himself, besides i have asked you this severally.
1.was it mohammad who made the mistake in the visions and prophecies he received?
2.was it your allah who made the mistake and then corrected him/herself?
because it is obvious that someone made a mistake which needed to be abrogated no?

nopuqeater:
this is the only reasonable thing you have said that i cant dispute. however jihad by definition is struggle against evil. no muslim must start a war, a conflict except to crrect the wrong in the most atural way.

so you re disputing the fact that the satanic verses,was abrogated lateri see so what about quran 2;191 isnt that unprovoked attack
i am sure you have read sayyid qutb's milestones because we have talked about it briefly before on jihad and his arguments about jahiliyah,and also taymiyyah and what he argues concerning jiad.you are espousing the views of modernist islamist,but a fundamental neo conservative muslim will disagree with you,so who do you want me to believe??

nopuqeater:
for example the jews of madina were fought because they proved to be traitors; guilty of rason aginst their own cit state. what do you do with treasonial people except fight hem because they will be a sourceof weakness amongst your rank if you allw them to enjoy the rights of the society.

that is a big fat lie sire,mohammad's attack was unprovoked,he attacked the three different jewish sects in order to take over medina with trumped up charges,i am busy this week but i will try and look for my sources on this and come back to u on that definitely.
secondly if you believe treason should be punished by death,that means you should not be against the assasination attempt on mohammad,and his companion resulting in his escaping from mecca then cause heis offence was treason against mecca as well??

nopuqeater:
america had civil war because of treason, the south undermining the agreed upon constitution. nigeria had her own because in paper it was forthe same reason. england fought the young ameican colony because it was practising treason against the crown ofengland with its 'tea party' dubbed movement. do you have any sense of what is reality, or you are already bain freezed to the trinity fantasy? has anyone practised the turning thr othecheek; america didnt, and she is the best of all nations, toay. the citizens pride themselves as the most humae merciful of allpersons; lol.

i see so you are showing your true islamic colours of violence and machiavellian tendencies, so you believe violence is the only way to freach your goals as muslimsslam is a religion of peace indeed lool

but show us the satanic verses, and their abrogations. e need to see snd et the whole world judge what you claim. it is easy to lie and no challenge thrown against the lies.

[/quote]how many times do you want me to post the same verse??if you go through my reply to babas787 i have posted the verses,and i know that mohammad obviously abrogated it in medina but that is not my concern because i personally believe he realised he wwas caught in an embarassing position and he skillfully tried to extricate himself, you know what they say about liars, they simply lie again to cover up the first one.so what exactly do you want to challenge??
that there is no satanic verses??
or that mohammad did not try to anull it and put foward abrogations explaining the context in which he uttered those words?

[quote author=nopuqeater link=topic=246849.msg5736299#msg5736299 date=1269177045]when we say your gods are not 1 but 3, we can see it and show you verses to buttress our positions. we will not beempty talkers like you. jesus didnt fight because he had sense that number and might will crush their adversary, in battle. or jesus was afraid, uncertain of theoutcome, not having a good supporting soldiers, even afte he prepared them for war, purchasing swords, with almost all teir belongings. it was supposed to be do or die, the reason you will trade everything except the cloh on your back, for ammunitions.

alhaji olabpowale, lol lol i am sure even you know this is a load of bollocks as u can see i have credited you in making comments backed up by the quran even though i know the quran is false.
jesus did not fight in spite of the multitudes who followed him and would have protected and fought for him,but because like he said that is what satan wanted so that his mission will be distrupted.
can imagine pastor adeboye sending 20,000 people to start matcheting muslims in jos and what the distraction will be?

[quote author=Tudór link=topic=300601.msg5735828#msg5735828 date=1269168177]You're talking absolute crap. . . They are much more developed than this shiit hole calle nigeria is that they ceased to make religion the center of their lives and started seeking answers and solutions to their problems rather than waiting for a dead jew to send help from 'heaven'.[/quote]i can bet my last pound that you are a british born here who has spent a little more time with the mainstream indigenous english people,socialised with them and now revel in the mistaken believe and ignorance that they dont care if you r black, lol dream on. Have you ever wondered why the asians have kept their identity intact in spite of the fact that they have been in the uk for well over 200 years? wondered why they will owe alleigiance to their own and be a support network to each other rather than the mainstream or indigenous white ,black population?
if they have ceased to make religion the centre of their lives,why are they bothered if the muslims over run the united kingdom then?? why the bnp and national front assertion that britain is a christian nation,surely they shouldnt be bothered about the dead jew going by your assertions?
[quote author=Tudór link=topic=300601.msg5735828#msg5735828 date=1269168177]In Nigeria churches are springing up in twos in every street corner while china factories and businesses that bring jobs and add REAL value to the society are the order of the day.[/quote]i see,how many chinese factories have been springing up in the united kingdom and wales? even though i wasnt born in this country like you,i had my first and second degrees here and my undergraduate degree was in politics and criminology so i can tell you quite a bit about sociological issues in the united kingdom.
do you even know the mainstay of the united kingdom economy?
yu are asserting that churches are the bane of nigeria's bad economy,do you know what the european union with uk as key players have contributed to the perpetual misery and poverty of african farmers??
this is why i mentioned earlier that it has nothing to do with religion, i will be waiting for you to show me how many chinese factories are in the uk and where they are, this is in order to shatter some of your illusions about the united kingdom
[quote author=Tudór link=topic=300601.msg5735828#msg5735828 date=1269168177]And you all wonder why Nigeria is useless.Oh really? He has all this money, he's a successful business man, property mogul, bestselling authour e.t.c. YET was indicted by the charity comission for embezzling £120,000 of church money using £80,000 to purchase a luxury porshe as 'birthday gift' to himself. . .what the hell is the guy- a kleptomaniac?[/quote]first of all,ti am sure you did not realise that the man published a double page chronological accounts of all the events between him,kicc and the charity commission as far back as 2006,ifyou ask any long term member they will tell you they got a copy, in that plain piece of paper he outllined everything that happened,where he was at fault and where the charity commission absolved him including the total funds and how everthing came to be i have a copy right here in my shoebox.
he was not indicted by the charity commission ,if he was you reckon he would have been allowed to even smell church dministration much more still heading the church? arhbishop gilbert deya is an example of a man of GOD indicted,that is why he has moved permanently to scotland.pastor ashimolowo was never indicted and what started the investigation was because the charity commission discovered a minority ethnic church with a turn over of about 12 million pounds.

when comments like these are made about minority ethnic churches by members of the minority ethnic groups in the uk in a season when black youths have been ascribed the notoriety of violence,stabbings e.t.c in the various urbane areas then it is a huge shame and no wonder black people,especially nigerians will never move past the existence and living from hand to mouth that has been the pattern of their lives in the uk,you think you are immune from any form of discrimination because you carry a british passport?you will be very suprised, wait for the new batch of legislations coming in soon including what the criminal justice system thinks of you

manmustwac:
I was born and bred in this country ok am a brititsh nigerian, i don't remember experiencing any form of racial discrimination by the police and how is a church gonig to benefit the community? Isn't it just there to twist the scriptures in order to squeeze the maximum amount of money from its gullible followers just to enrich its selfish leaders?

i am sorry sire,but this is one of the most delusional comment i have heard,the fact that you are a british nigerian does not mean anything when sociological issues are concerned.the fact that you have not experienced racial discrimination doesnt mean you should deny or pretend it doesnt exist you think i dont carry a british passport as well?? as far as the average english man or woman is concerned both of us and the nigerian on a visiting visa are one and the same thing let me give u an instance.
be honest,has a white person asked you how long you have been in the uk before?
racism and racialised words and actions has moved on from the 1980s and 1990s these days racially palatable words are used,and if you are not in tune with them then you ll probably think they are not.
the church is there for community cohesion,the thousands of young men and women you find in those churches would have otherwise be hanging out near your street snatching fones,they are not on the streets of hackney giving the minority ethnic people a bad name,if that is the only advntage surely you will agree the church is justified in being there?

@okenwa
hi,thanks for your responce


1.i have an idea of how much it will cost in starting,but i am not looking to build the whole structure at one,it will be in different phases
2 i have also made arrangements for all the equipments from here and will get the rest of the things i will need in nigeria which i am making arrangements towards as well.
3.i am not sure if the land is earmarked for business,but i am sure there is a mix f business and residence in that area(near ait in alagbado lagos)
i will definitely send you an email today or tmorrow thanks

Seun:
What's happening to Turai is like being lynched by an rabid, blood-thirsty mob. It doesn't mean you're guilty.

yes it does she is guilty of holding the collective nigerian destiny to ransom because of her own rabid desire for power

this is precisely what the compromised writer of the article is envisaging.personally i believe money has changed hands hence the writer of the article is trying to change her public personae and perception of an arrogant,ruthless,machiavelian politician to a grieving woman full of grieve and being unfairly persecued,going by a few comments here it seems to be working.
she didnt just realise her father was sick last couple of weeks yet she was fully participating in the power games.
she didnt just realise the sickness of her husband yet she was taking all the actions and surreptitious moves credited to her in undermining the vp now acting president.
it is simply an issue of having tasted the allures of power,and not willing to give up without a fight she is not the first neither will she be the last,if obasanjo can leave then she is small fry.

Seun:
There's nothing dishonest about not letting political vultures speak to your terminally ill husband.

they are all political vultures including herself the queen vulture,that is the game that brought her to power hence she should be ready to abide by the rules when it isnt favourable to her

hi all,i am planning to move to nigeria finally in about 2/3 years from now and one of the business ideas i have a passion for is settng up a nursery and primary school.i have 2 plots of land not far from ait in lagos and i am looking to build on this before omo oniles start giving me grief,i learnt the rules have changed concerning the setting up of a place of learning because of the proliferation of quacks,pls can anyone tell me the process one needs to follow in getting the relevant lincenses?and what needs to be in place in terms of structure and facilities ,equipment e.t.c
i am planning to start with maybe a ground floor and one storey and then build upon that as the business gets more patronage and i am looking to start building as early as mid to end of this year or as soon as i get the relevant lincenses.
every help and suggestions will be apprecited but pls i dont want to do forex or any other unsolicited business ideas only suggestions related to this specific idea will be acknowledged thanks

this is a really awesome invention,if you have been lugging a heavy hand luggage round 2/3 airports and u have a 4 hours stopover then sleep is the best remedy in such a situation cant wait to try it out wheever i go there but i dont thik the 2 occupants idea is a good one,i really wont sleep easy knowing a stranger who might be a suicide bomber or pervert or psychopath is sleeping below me.

ziddy:
we need something like this in Lagos already

are you serious?i promise you your laptop and everything will be stolen by the time you wake up,not mentioning the fact that airport officials will collude with prostitutes and some university girls who want to earn foreign currency and install them in designated sleeping boxes

bilms:
please seek forgiveness for your alterances such as (christian god (ghost)

don't use such words because the xtians use it for us because of there ignorance.

salam

thank you for promptly correcting your muslim brother, like the bible says by their fruits ye shall know them, its funny that even though muslims view jesus christ as a prophet who came before mohammad,i though a pious muslim will at least accord him the same respect given mohammad at least even if they dont view him in the same way we do.it is clearly showing by their utterance those who are muslims and those who are the mujahideens who only get called out for fighting jihad both of the sword,and of the tongue because that is all they are good for, kudos nopuqueater now i believe you are not olabowale

[quote author=Tudór link=topic=300601.msg4242558#msg4242558 date=1248435423]Thats why they have a considerably better life than jesus drunk nigerians.[/quote]you need to go back in history a couple of hundred years ago and you will know why they have a better life than us,it has absolutely nothing to do with what you are inferring.
by the way i personally believe that the same reasons prosperous black people were arrested and lynched in the southern states of america during the jim crow time is the same reason white people are afraid of a single black man having the power to controll a large number of people.i can give you a couple of sound criminological theories from reputable social scientist to prove this so its not just me speakng from my rear orifice.
[quote author=Tudór link=topic=300601.msg4242761#msg4242761 date=1248438227]That FOOL wasn't sent by God but was mandated by his pocket. Thats how he was indicted for embezzling £120k pounds from the church fund and using £80k to buy a luxury porsche for his birthday present!
What the hell does a preacher need an expensive luxury porsche for??. . . .Jesus formula one grand prix [/quote]so you are oneof the people who subscribes to a preacher wearing the oversize ill fitting matalan suits??
you should be careful  pouring vitriol on people you hardly know anything about,but then again im not suprised seeing as you are nigerian,it is our stock in trade after all some nigerian people went to the charity commission that they will buy his properties at knock down prices when they jail him and seize his properties and the church properties.
the man worked hard to make his money,go and find out how much his book on black history made" what is wrong in being black" and the dvd series, after painstaking research spanning more than 5 years,he is also a consumate businessman in his own right dealing in properties both here and in nigeria and he is building a private university in nigeria and an estate, he has suffered while he was young so he knows the value of money and maing sure he never goes back to his begining again[
this is without looking at other best sellers he has written,you think its a fluke that he heads the fasted growing minority ethnic church in the uk?
you think nigeians are the majority there?go there and you will be mildly shocked majority of his congregation are jamaicans,zimbabweans ghananians e.t.c

manmustwac:
what has racism got to do with the issue here? the church will expect up 1400 people every week taking up the small parking space just making thousands of pounds every week for pastor ashimolowo contributes nothing to the community and could stop people from shopping in the area. Like the post said a cinema would be better because it brings jobs. I hope they succeed with the protest.

typical nigerian reply,no wonder we are the minority ethnic group who are shown the worst treatment in the united kingdom, a typical nigerian will never ever stand up for their own in uk,they will rather cross to the other side of the road if they see their fellow nigerians protesting.
people like you will come on here later and start complaining about being indiscriminately stopped and searched,about someone deriding you because you are nigerian,you dont realise that you have contributed in pulling down the people who have managed to have the ears of the powers that be in the parliament by your nigerian attitude which you brought from home,this is why you see pakistanis and indians zooming up and down in the bentleys,x5s ,mercedes because they stick together and stan up for their own the former church that the olympics committee compulsorily bought off pk.i.c.c the moslems in unity went to the local councill and bought it while we nigerians were abusing the man,same thing happened in my church here while two different nigerian churches were fighting themselves over who will buy the church the moslems came and offered the full money,if not that they didnt want to turn the church into a mosque we will have lost out on that as well .
how many nigerians apart from pastor adeboye and a few others get regularly invited to number ten,to state and discuss issues relating to minority ethnic groups?
look continue in your stance,when they destroy him and he goes back to where he is wanted in ghana then lets see who will represent your interest in that uk

i was replying this comments yesternight but by the time i clicked the reply icon nairaland developed some fault so it all got deleted hence the reason you are getting a late reply.

babs787:
@Godson2009
Oga, kindly provide the facts and let us move on. Could you please provide where we worship moon and sun

sire,i have to admit at this point that it is mentally frustrating having a debate with you,are you askig me to state the obvious?do you bow down to the sun while praying or not do you use the moon in sightings for your religious celebrations or not??isnt that deifying the sun and moon

babs787:
When you wake up, kindly supply me the needed facts.

quran 4;34,
Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great


muslim hadith 4;2127 how your prophet lovingly takes care of his beloved aisha, Muhammad struck his favorite wife, Aisha, in the chest one evening when she left the house without his permission. Aisha narrates, "He struck me on the chest which caused me pain."

i have more where this came from,

babs787:
Let me have your plagiarization.

the stories of the prophets in the bible was wayy before mohammad was born, the old testament sections of the bible he blantantly stole and gummed to his man made religion for validation if u want proof read the old testament!!

babs787:
Substantiate your allegation.

i have severally done that by posting verses of the quran and hadiths i cant help it if you are delusional sire

babs787:
Quran 654 ? When we have 114 chapters in the Quran. Oga, are you up to the task?

you see why i am mentally frustrated debating with you??if you were that knowledgeable about your quran you should obviously have relised i meant 6;54 not 654

babs787:
What every facet?
What of those having them uncovered, are they not muslims?

no they are not,unless you are carving out a new law different from the sharia go and read sayyid qtb's milestones and what he says about his trip to america and dressings

babs787:
.
Lead men in prayers? Let me start from your bible, do you read it in an upside down position? Did your bible not preach against women speaking and preaching in public places?

i dont have a monopoly on biblical knowledge,please prove your assertions by posting the relevant biblical verses same as i have done anytime i raise any allegation concerning islam

babs787:
Did your bible not say that women shoud remain silence and ask only their husband at home whatever they feel like asking?

i have not come across this in my bible,however because i am a fair and reasonable man,i will give you the benefit of doubt, pls post the verses in the new testament where that is thanks

babs787:
Is there any female messenger/Prophet from the lists God sent?

i will ask you directly if that is the justification for gender inequality in islam
so yes or no do women have the mental capacity to be prophets or not?
is it possibl for GOD to use a woman in islam to do his work or not??i await your responce

babs787:
Why would a female lead male in prayers? You read your bible but go against its teachings and that is the reason we have some advocating it while go against it. Churches now indulge in what congregation loves to hear 'prosperity' and does not have time for dressing, faith and other things that would profit you in the hereafter.

in other words,you are inferring that your own allah does not answer the prayers of your women when they pray?
or are you saying that there is an orer of haierachy in your own allah answering prayers first man second male children 3rd wife last female children, imagine what kind of life a female in islam will be living all her life, i dont know what church you are reffering to but as far as i am concerned and as a born again and broken christian,my own girlfriend will only wear a skirt that covers her knee,she will not wear a sleeveless dress and she will cover her head when inside the church,and she knows the man is the head of the house,in spite of that we jointly make decisions we sit side by side and we give each other mutual respect,and lastly she is free and unhibited to fulfill and achieve her full potential without any gender bias

babs787:
Post them here and let us view them together

one of the abrogated verses, the vmedinan verse that abrogated the meccan verse concerning jihad of the sword, quran 2;191
satanic verses where mohammad was venerating pagan gods in mecca, quran 53;19-22
Now tell me about Al-Lat, Al-Uzza, and Manat,
The third one, another goddess.
What! For you the males and for him the females!
That indeed is an unfair division
in continuation and conclusion here is where mohammad acknowledged his folly, quran 17;73, And their purpose was to tempt thee away from that which We had revealed unto thee, to substitute in our name something quite different; (in that case), behold! they would certainly have made thee (their) friend

babs787:
The sun rises in the East and set in the West huh? So, who do we pray to when the sun

true or false??simple

babs787:
Rises in the East.
Sets in the west

true or false sire??

babs787:
Thank you for admitting that. Please does that mean they worshipped the moon?

i asked you a question but you didnt answer it, as usual

babs787:
Please, let us address the issue with maturity. I would appreciate you giving your facts and not just story telling sir.

and what do you call all that i have been giving you since??validation for islam??

babs787:
Oga, in case you you do not know me, kindly search for my name and read all my posts. I debate with facts, verses from both books.

sire,you are yet to place those facts here since we started our little debate,all you do is to keep on reminding me of your reputation on nairaland which you are yet to p[rove i am tired of hearing talk,now please i want some action wlk the walk pls i cant keep on busting my hump posting after reading and digging through my sources and all you do in reply is send a terse one liner as a rebuttal or retort

babs787:
I do not need to pre-empt you. You brought allegation and should be bold enough to give me facts and when you do that, I will provide rebuttal with verses from both books.

i guess you are not as knowledgeable in islamic discourse as you thought you were after all then,you seem to me shifty and scared of debating with the fact you are so quick to proclaim, thers on here have given me a more challenging debate all you kp doing is prevaricating and empty charades,show me some hard facts rather than talk

babs787:

Note, this is still here for you:


Could you explain why blood gushed from the side of a dead man?

Could you explain why he shouted, 'my God why has thou forsaken me" when he knew that he came to die for you?

you want me to address this,when you are yet to conclusiely address a single issue we have been debating about?/what cheek!!!

babs787:
@Godson2009


I am not perturbed in you believing me or not as long as God is my witness.



That shows that you have a long way to go in understanding your bible and the book of peter said there is no secret interpretation of the words.


Oga, spare me the time. Let me have your claim or you create a thread where we analyse that


You started with your allegation and should deem it fit to create a thread for that. You should be able to support your claim with facts and not just story telling. When you are ready Mr God son , set the ball rolling and we would if you really know about your book let alone mine.


I dont have time for this sir. You said many things about my religion which I said you should provide facts and if I were you, I would have furnish same sharp sharp.

I am still chalenging you here since you started the argument to furnish me your facts and we dance along.

Open a thread for you and I or you furnish me your facts here.

Please let me have the verse(s) he was told that.

Let me have the prophecies please (hope you have asked your big brothers you met here etc and some of your sisters about me )

Please, do not try to feed me. I said why did he shout, 'my God why has thou forsaken me"? What was he forsaken for?

Waiting for your doctor's response.


Did he die on the cross? I need a YES or No response


Thanks

im sure and i hope yo will agree with me that there isnt much debate in your retort all you keep on doing is making open ended and nebulous comments rather than committing yourself to a stance,when you alledged that you were the repository of knowledge on islam i though you will be a welcome challenge having tackled your elders in islam i.e alhaji olabowale,nopqueater and they gave me a good debate,they never shied away from any single issue neither did they make open ended retorts like you are doing,i have highlighted hadiths and qurans backing my main assertions up namely gender inequality,intolerance and violence in islam,i have highighted the quranic verses of the satanic verse,same as one of the abrogated verse or jihad but you have not deemed it fit to disprove it nor show me the contradictions you keep making empty pchallenges to publish,i dont have time to open a thread because you simply are no match sire the same thing you wrote in the first comment you replied to is the same thing you wrote here, in order for you to get an idea of what i am on about please check my past threads where i and olabowale have debated issues in the religion section or me and others who are more knowledgeable in thethe quran than you are.

luvola:
downlawal ,accept christ and b save

she will,i promise you that its only a matter of time and it wont be too long

babs787:
@Godson2009
But it did not he was crucified huh? If they crucify someone and he did not die, would you still say he was crucified?
Welcome to my world

no i wouldnt,but fortunately this is a moot point because he was cruxified,however if you have evidence "in the bible" to show otherwise then feel free to share with everyone here

babs787:
@Godson2009
Oga, you a newbie here. You should ask your brothers and sisters here,my posts speak for me. If I lie, you are not God, so leave to judge.

am i really lol i have my reasons for saying so,uplawal a.k.a titialayo said same thing but i always like to break issues down to the barest basics,therefore please if you were a christian
1.were you a broken and born again christian?i hope you realise this are two different terms,or were you a sunday sunday christian?
what church ,parish did you attend?
before i make my own retorts thank you

babs787:
I am sure you would not have read and still reading the bible like I do. If you look at the above verse you are trying to cite, Jesus was talking to you Christians because you ignored his teachings and took to Pauline Christianity. I bet you do not know what christianity is all about. I have been there, ardent member and you should know the difference between the christianity of then and the one practised by you today.

its suprising and funny a muslim is talking about context here,seeing as you same muslims are the regular culprits at quoting bible verses out of context

babs787:
Do you know your bible to even challenge and can you even challenge me to the Quran and Bible.

i dont have a monopoly on knowledge of both books i.e the holy bible and the book of confusion quran,but i can tell you with every sense of responsibility and humility that i have read enough of the quran,and the bible to know your book is frought with contradictions,confusions and double speak,when u chat with uplawal,ask her to tell u if i have a knwledge of the quran or not

babs787:
If you think you have the liver and knows the bible and Quran, create a thread for only you and I and we thrash out issues with facts.

sire,by all means please open the thread and i will gladly debate every single point to a conclusive end with yyou,with all humility my academic research was done on justifications of islamic terrorism ,history of islam and for me to get a final score of 71 which is a first class in a british university i am sure you will agree i know what i am saying,if i get a jb i am pursuing now about research studies in nigerian/west african terrorism i will let you know , i am still learning as a budding academic but one thing i am sure is that i can prove and defend every single assertion i have made about islam,not only that i have defended those points severally on this same section and religion sections,ask your friend uplawal,abuzola,olabowale e.t.c i have thrown the challenge to you now i ll be waiting for that thread

babs787:
If you are ready, signigy your acceptance and we ride on.

i am ready sire,lets go there like they will say in naija

babs787:
Oga you left my question unaswered when you claimed he died for you.
Is he aware of his coming to die?

yes he was,because he got the mandate and the commission from his father in heaven to come on earth and die for the sins of the world,his coming was also fore told by prophets,and men of GOD even before he was born,secondly he was a GOD the son of the almighty albeit a smaller GOD to his father

babs787:
Why did he shout on the cross?

because e felt pain,like every normal human being remember he came "in human form" not in supernatural form hence he felt pain,he felt emotion,he cried he loved e.t.c

babs787:
Can blood gush from the dead?

i am not a medical doctor so i will have to get back to you on that after i quickly ask my gf who is one pls bear with me
But it did not he was crucified huh? If they crucify someone and he did not die, would you still say he was crucified?