^^^^fair enough,but do yohonestly believe that the book is enough basis to conclude that he is a charllatan and what are yur reasons for believing that the authors of the book are not just trying to score a quick buck at the man's expense, just asking

MrBible:

GODSON2009

Well it was discussed on a radio station in the US and a member of the masons was involved. Are you a member of the masons? If not what defence do have?

[size=15pt]"On a recent episode of Church Folk Revolution Radio the topic of “Should your Pastor Join the Freemasons” cause a very heated exchange between the host and a member of the masons. Several issues and concerns were raised about the conflict of spiritual interest that arises when a Pastor is also a member of the Freemasons"[/size]

in other words,no proof

^^while it is not my place to either adduce reasons nor justify any of the actions,one thing you will find very clear in all the eons of instances you have highlighted is the fact that these were the laws guiding the israelites,the israelites were seen and saw themselves as GOD's people subject to his laws and commandments.
another thing you will find in all the different bible verse you have quoted and if you read around the old testament is that there was no compulsion for them to live by these rules,they all subscribed to it and submitted themselves to the appropriate judgement when flouted tell me how this compares with a situation where the so called african gods actually forced people to worship them
they forced people to give up their new born babies to be murdered
they killed people in cold blood for rituals not for any reason,or any fault of theres just because they happen to be at the wrong place

btw did you see the story of the 5 yr sold girl whose private part was cut off and her intestines removed partly by some men?
reason because they wanted to use it for money ritual, is that part of colonial religious brainwash as well?
as for the book/volume i mentioned earlier it was not written by colonialists but nigerians chronicling african history and how it was practised

Pastor AIO:

I found an interesting essay on the subject. It doesn't tally with my position but it is interesting all the same. I am also going to post a response to the essay that I thought was quite interesting too.

http://alencon13..com/2006/06/human-sacrifice-in-ancient-canaan.html

while i do not claim to be that knowledgeable of a bible scholar,i can certainly point to a few absurdities in the article even at my base understanding of christianity.if you have read the article you posted you will notice that he makes an assumption based on a lose and ambiguous connection he ties to different bible verses for instance how did exodus 13;2 and exodus 13;13 suddenly become the same thing simply based on similar wordings used?
most of the articles are assertions and then rebuttals and then he states why his/her assertion should be right even though they are not adding anything new

Pastor AIO:

What is an exegesis, is it not an interpretation? If I recall it is you that advised me to read verse 16 independently of verse 15.

an exegesis is like the the history leading to something else therefore what i meant was that it was important to understand what led to different situations/incidents and yes i said for you to read verse 16 independent of 15 in order not to interject your own meanings to it

Pastor AIO:

I never said that you said that God did not accept burnt offerings. I hope you are not hallucinating. Please it would help if you just stuck to what I said and leave your imagination out of this.

dude,i have been civil in my comments with you,and the comments of these sorts dotted all over your retort is irritating ,annoying and sort of a distraction i will enjoin you not to add them to any other replies to me or my next replies wont be this civil to you, replying comments without irritating comments doesnt ake your argument weaker it actually takes away from it, you have been warned

Pastor AIO:

The City being burnt contained properites of the inhabitants, ba? What about the inhabitants? Are you going to tell me that they were carefully removed from the city and given a decent burial before the rest of the city was offered up as burnt offering?

the funny thing about you is that you are not a christian neither do you believe in christianity yet you are stating with so much certainty that GOD was being offered the human remains as part of the burnt offerings or booty.letme ask you one of my own since the thread has totally gone off track if you were the commander of such force and you were given instructions to offer the articles in the town as a burnt offering,what would your initiative be?the question you are asking is that ambiguous isnt it

Pastor AIO:

The story of King Saul and his failure to totally destroy the 'amalekites' (I think it was the amalekites, I can't remember off hand) has no bearing on what we are talking about now. At least in that case he wasn't told to burn them up as a burnt offering to the Lord.

on one of the occassions where he angered GOD,he was told not to take anything out of the town to burn the whole articles but he took livestock so it has a bearing on what we are talking about.you are being really cocky for someone who doesnt believe in the bible nor reads it regularly neither understands it, its like me arguing with so much conviction with a member of the hare krishna movement

Pastor AIO:

But what I find most shocking and demonstrates that you hallucinate is when you say that the bible did not categorically state what Jepthah did at the end of that chapter.

i really dont want this debate to degenerate into name calling like the other one so pls refrain from using words like the bolded AGAIN it is irritating

Pastor AIO:

The bible explicitly states that Jephthah did to her according to the vow. The bible also explicitly states that the vow is to offer her as a burnt offering to the Lord.

true,but nowhere did it say the lord asked him to offer his daughter up as a burnt offering,its like harold camping and his followers blaming GOD for fraudlently taking money of them

Pastor AIO:

Samuel's mother[b] did not[/b] offer Samuel up to God as a burnt offering. She offered to dedicate his life to God and that is what she did with Samuel, she brought him to the temple to serve God. This is a totally different case from Jephthah and his daughter and you are just struggling to connect the two out of desperation.

dude i was giving different instances why do nigerians debate this way?

Pastor AIO:

You forget the tale of Abraham and Isaac, where he bound Isaac to be sacrificed. Did God not demand it?

he did actually but what happened at the end?bearing in mind that he already had an alternative ready

Pastor AIO:

And I will state for the umpteenth time that you are deluded if you read the passage and came to that conclusion. Even if you add the Moonies, and the Hare Krishnas to your seventh day adventists and Jehovah's witnesses to support the nonsense claim that a promise to make a burnt offering was fulfilled by sending her to a nunnery, that doesn't change the facts of what the passage says.

personally for me as an individual what you think of the passage is of no conscequence to me,just saying so we will get things in perspective secondly as a christian that particular passage is of no coscequence to me or my faith for the following reasons
1.GOD did not require human sacrifice from jephtah neither did he command or enjoin him to do anything to his daughter,the only other place i recall in the bible where he expressly demanded for an human sacrifice he already provided an alternative and in the book of deuteronomy 12;31 he expressely forbade the israelites from offering human sacrifice and in chapter 23 he condemns those who commit such acts,as a christian that is good enough for me therefore for the same bible to now include the accounts of jephtah means it was either contradicting itself or that what jephtah did was done independent of GOD,which looking at jephtah's childhood,background and life before he was chosen as a judge could explain why he made such a vow.
going back to the thread which we have veered from the issue is this

*i stated that our african progenys offered human sacrifices which was abhorrent etc in reply you and others stated that i was being an hypocrite because GOD also accepted or was somehow responsibel for human sacrifice.to back up your claims you adduced the book of judges where jephtah made a vow the pertinent question is this

*where did GOD pressure,force,coerce or support jephtah to make such a vow?
*after the daughter came out to meet him,where in the whole chapter did GOD signify acceptance of whatever vow jephtah made?
for good measure,i have shown you two different places in the bible where GOD expressly forbade the israelites from human sacrifice,not only this he condemns those who burnt or made their sons and daughters pass through the fire(the god ashtoreth and baal)
let us start from these questions rather than arguing irrelevance cause its really wearing thin

Pastor AIO:

Hey stop there!! you should say that I am not the kind of christian that you are. But you cannot claim total monopoly of christianity. Of course I cannot know your christianity more than you do. Afterall you make it up as you go along, there is no way that I can catch up with your innovations. However if it is literal meanings of the Bible that you don't like then you will have to explain to me what the criteria are for when to take the bible literally and when not to.
I don't see what Jesus had to say about building the temple in 3 days after it is destroyed has got to do with what we are talking about.

of course not,even pastors,bishops etc can claim a monopoly of christianity whats your point?? all i meant was that it is reasonable to assume that i would understnd the bible more than you will considering the fact that i read it and meditate upon it regularly,i go to church often(every week as a matter of fact) to learn from bible scholars unless i was mistaken in thinking that you are not a christian nor believe in christianity then i stand corrected.
if i was right that you are not a christian and you dont believe in christianity then what are you ranting about??

Pastor AIO:

I find it difficult to follow your grammar above.

did you mean you have difficulty in comprehesion?

Pastor AIO:

All I demonstrated to you was that the rite of passing through fire has nothing to do with human sacrifice, though you (and many others) have tried to force it to mean that.

you have not demonstrated this to me as we have gone off track in the thread about 2 pages ago.passing through fire,offering up first born males,virgins as burnt offerings are all part of the same thing and these practises in the bible were commited in the names of ashoreth,baal and other babylonian gods and i believe these practises resonate with idol worship both amongst africans and parts of south america etc so its not an isolated practise

Pastor AIO:

There is nobody on this thread (as far as I am aware) who is condoning human sacrifice. If your beef is against people who perform human sacrifice then we are on the same side.

this is a relief,well i have not seen any indication contrary to that untill now from other comments.when ppl reply my comments by saying that the gods are justified to murder 1 million people because of the incidents in the bible then that leads me to a conclusion that they are condoning human sacrifice.

Pastor AIO:

I thought that you were making claims that there was no human sacrifice in the bible, or the Jehovah did not permit the wholesale slaughter, genocide actually, of vast hosts of people, some of them sacrificially.

the fact that there are human sacrifices in the bible does not ascribe this to GOD that is my grouse.the instance you have given is basically a man out of his volition who made a vow and then commited himself to that vow how is GOD responsible for that?
*another instance stated was of a situation where 70,000 were killed by the angels for disobedience, not only did the people concerned accept that there were at fault,they actually cried out to the same entityfor forgiveness this is totally different from the situation that brought this debate about.
*the next one was the israelites being told to sack the townand to offer the booty therein as a burnt offering,booty in its dictionary meaning to all intents and purposes does not include human beings.now either the israelites burnt the humans with the booty or not is not the issue here the issue is that GOD did not ask them to sacrifice human beings.
during the times of the old testament,they were times of constant warfare and little diplomacy or dialogue so the israelites could not be singled out for something every single nation indulged in,this also transcends christianity to islam,even to the pre colonial african and beyond etc
besides the bible catalogues several instances,as a book of chronological events does this doesnt mean that it condones the actions

all the instances given above in the bible altogether in my opinion absolutely does not justify
*cold blooded murder of new born and children used for rituals
*cold blooded murder of pregnant women,men being used for money rituals based on what the gods accept
*cold blooded murder of albinos
etc and we both know that is just the start

MrBible:

GODSON2009
[size=16pt]And what proof do you have for your defence of these false pastors?[/size]

the basic premise in law states that "he who asserts must do so with proof"you posted some grevious allegations without backing proof so how else is the authenticity to be tested

EarsWide:

@Godson2009
you saidI KNOW he is fake - NO CHRISTIAN tells someone ill with cancer to bring out a bosom in church for the congregation to see. What can be the possible reason for this ?

that is the issue though,will you judge the man,his ministry and the source of his miracles e.t.c over a single video and all sorts of hear say?i have consistently asked and challenged each time i see these sort of thread for someone to produce incontrovertible evidence to support these assertions, there is no man of GOD who has not being found out at the end of the day if fake yet this man keeps on growing.the only reason you have given is the bolded is that enough?

EarsWide:

NO it doesnt - conning people and then returning a prorpotion of it to them and the wider community does not absolve him of been a fraud.

in what way would you say he is coning people though financially?the man has said it publicly that he has not millions in his personal account and he spends the church funds as soon as it comes in on charitable works n social welfare

EarsWide:

Some people say he is healing with evil forces - he is NOT healing at all. He is a fraud like the rest of his 419 crew. The pastor in the video described how the deceptions worked and gave names of people inside the organisation - he did not make those names up.
On a wider note - it is difficult for us to accept that people we hold in high regard can be guilty of fraud and deception - but the bible has already told us this can be the case.

well if you have been reading a few of my posts i dont idolise any man or woman of GOD and i certainly dont depend on any man or woman of GOD for miracles and i have never been to tb joshua's church neither do i even know what part of lagos it is to be honest,having said that if someone close to you came on here and accused you of being an armed robber stating different dates and times ,should we then accept it as such without conclusive evidence?
like i said before i dont know what power or entity is behind his powers,neither do you but one thing i believe we both know is that he does do miracles and the one that concerns me he is expousing the real ideals of christianity which is loving your neighbour as yourself,feed and clothing your neighbour etc

@poster
did you even read the article before posting ?where in the article did you see any evidence of the pastors mentioned being members of the free masons?the article mentioned their names without any of their pictures showing them in the mason's regalia neither did it offer any evidence to this effect dont make wild and unsubstantiated allegations without proof

EarsWide:

@Godson2009

My bro - please make sure you watch the videos. There is a point where to prove he can cure bosom cancer (part 4) - he gets a woman to actually bring out her bosom in church - that can NOT be of God, can it ?

to be honest i dont know if the man is fake or not,neither do you and you certainly cannot use a couple of mins video no matter how disturbing it looks to make that kind of determination.as far as i am concerned whatever powers he is using is between him and the entity he got the power from the most important to me is that he like other MOGs is making a lot of money off his congregation but unlike other MOGs he is trying his best to spread the money evenly round his congregation and even those who are not of his congregation both within and outside nigeria, thats got to count for something doesnt it?

the day we nigerians got our heads out of the sand and start appreciating pastor tb joshua and his charitable works the faster we will start holding our other MOGs to account on the kind of life they are leading

celestial is on par with redeemed o how manage

i reckon this is as a result of some overzealous church members,i am a member of redeemed as well and everyone knows th man himself is humble and is not an individual that will require people calling him daddy.
if you check some churches they even have HOLY POLICE even here in uk who will shield the pastor/prophet/evangelistetc from being touched by ordinary mortals like us
i have only one earthly daddy and one heavenly daddy ces fini

Joagbaje:

This is the truth. there is a satanic reason for all these attacks. It's the sheep Satan is after.

Matt 13:27
. . . smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered. . .

i beg to differ maybe you should go through acts of the apostle all through to timothy and you will see how the apostles were running the ministries in their charge.
do you recall apostle paul telling the corinthians(not sure)that even though it was his right to ask them to give him money,but he will rather work hard to fend for himself?
apostle paul further said in the new testament that the funds in the church coffers should be used for the less priviledged not for the comfort of the pastor,he went further to outline the people in the church who were to be taken care of which includes
widows both old and young the poor and infirm etc
satan is not the one using 4 private jets,it is the pastor and his deputy while majority of the congregation are suffering

Pastor AIO:

Thank you so much for explaining the meaning of booties and showing me how to read the text. In fact it illustrates my point that any text can be read in any way depending on the creative intelligence of the reader. I will take your point and read the passage only from verse 16, ignoring verse 15. This is still what I get:

16“Then you shall gather all its booty into the middle of its open square and burn the city and all its booty with fire as a whole burnt offering to the LORD your God;

I still see a city being burnt (with all it's booty, not just the booty alone). Since we have separated the booty from the rest of the city what does the city that is being burnt consist of?

its not about the creative intelligence of the reader,its about getting the essence the exegesis like i have stated before and the purpose,if you have noticed the bible is like layes upon laters of interwoven incidents,you simply cannot pick out an incident and then talk about it independently of the supporting verses.
i never said that GOD did not accept burn offerings,in fact examples abound in the old testament where burn offering was offered unto him either to appease him or to ask for favours.
the city being burnt contains properties of the inhabitants,if you check the bible other exampes abound where the israelites are told to burn everything without taking any "booty" king saul actually lost his kingdom because he disobeyed GOD not to take anything i.e booty from a vanquished enemy

Pastor AIO:

I don't know why you quoted the above. Is it that it is what you believe, or is it a red herring? Or could it really be that you quoted it 'to serve to enlighten me'? The article does not actually state what happens. It seems to me that it is just wriggling about trying to squirm its way out of the difficult position. After speculating whether or not Jephthah could have done such a thing, it then says that whether he did it or not it doesn't matter cos it doesn't say that God approved of it, and in fact God in Deuteronomy expressly disapproved.
It is all rather long-winded, and I have a preference for just following what the bible said in simplicity.

yes,that is what i believe actually its not a red herring and even though the bible did not categorically state what that jephtah did at the end of that chapter,we could look at another incident of similar situation in the bible and rationally deduce.
example where similar happened samuels's mother made a vow to GOD that any child she gets will be dedicated to GOD fore ever he was not killed or slaughtered.
there is no where that GOD will demand for a human sacrifice,and i added the link and short recital to show an enlightened explanation from someone who was more knowledgeable than i am concerning that incident

Pastor AIO:


39At the end of two months she returned to her father, who did to her according to the vow which he had made;

What was the vow? To offer her as a burnt offering! simples.

and i will state for the umpteenth time that the vow was to give the daughter unto a lifetime of service to GOD sort of like a nun,if you traverse the length and breath of different religious persuations like seventh day adventists,jehovah's witness others this is what they all believe and subscribe to.since you are not a christian you cannot know about my religion more than i do by applying literal meanings,its like when jesus said he will demolish the temple and build it back in 3 days, fair enough?

Pastor AIO:

Now to come to this very interesting bible verse. This is what you and also the writer of the not-very-interesting article you quoted use to show that God would not condone human sacrifice.
Alas for you, human sacrifice is not mentioned in the text. What you seem to understand as human sacrifice (and many other translators have made this error too so you are in good company) is the line 'to pass through the fire'. However to accept this translation is to betray an ignorance of Canaanite religion, and also other pagan religions the world over.
To Pass over the fire was means, quite literally, to pass over fire. This was a rite that was done to purify the celebrants. In some parts they jump through a ring of fire or they jump over a bonfire. These practices were usually tied to the solstice celebrations and they are still practiced in Europe and other parts of the middle east till this day. A lot of solstice rites are still practiced within christendom as Christmas celebrations and Midsummer's Eve Celebrations (themed around the birth of St. John the Baptist).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midsummer

lets address this one after the other,as you have bolded it,the instruction of GOD to the israelites was that once they have taken control they were forbidden from practicing any of these sort of sacrifices,now irrespective of its origins and the people that practice it the bible which you have quoted copiously from to back your assertions have equally shown that its totally against human sacrifice that is the buttom line now i would like you to justify the article i posted n the other comment about the violated 5 yrs old girl and then generally justify and rationalise the human sacrifice indulged in as a form of idol worship which you have failed to do.
both you and tudor in trying to ease out of a difficult situation find it easier to attack christianity rather than explain,rationalise and justify the sacrifice of human beings that is the crux of this whole argument and i dont see anyone rising to it.
we have gone a couple of pages talking about christianity and the old testament when the idol worshippers and their insatiable bloodshed should be the one in the defensive not attacking

harakiri:

I have already shown you where you erred and got insultive but i already know you're incapable of seeing or acknowledging your own mistakes. You see, i know your type very well. You come on here arguing blindly with everyone who's perspective differs from yours and when you feel insecure, you lash out at the person.

no sire,you dont know my type,and i can bet you my type will never relate with your ilk,if not for the empty intellectual arrogance what gives you the right or monopoly of wisdom over me or anyone else for that matter?.
are you really serious?so when your viewpoint is different from that of other people,then they must be right and you are wrong?dude you are not only clueless,but you are also not enlightened and i dont think you are used to intellectual debates.you have shown this by saying im arguing blindly because arguing blindly means arguing in a different direction to the topic,going off on a tangent which is clearly not the case or no one will have replied me before you came lumbering in my path like a drunk ogre, now i dont know people like you but i have read intellectually warped comments from people like you who spit out their baby stoppers as soon as anyone dis-agrees with them,i said it in my previous comments and i am repeating it that from what i have noted of your personality and writing style you will probably get violent when people disagree with you and i really pity people around you.

harakiri:

. .when the person replies you in the same language, you turn around and accuse the person of what you started and are guilty of. Your types come a dime a dozen. You think having access to the internet and bantering nonsense with your betters makes you "intelligent". You think talking crap to your betters gives you an "edge". You are boring and pathetic and if today wasn't a slow Sunday, i wouldn't even bother giving a troll like you the time of day. Let me illustrate the kind of dumba$$ you really are :

so you are now my better without even knowing me,a complete stranger who you v not even met before, im sorry but i am sure you are in nigeria, i can bet my last pound on it,dont worry about my internet connection its 24/7 bt wireless
my betters looooooooooooool your mates are in the romance and other forums on nland constituting themselves into a nuisance and i will honestly be surprised if you are more than 20 years old.its either that or your intellect keeps receeding as your age is increasing and you really need to keep a check on it

harakiri:

TOPIC : Simple Arithmetic

dumba$$2009 : My bible says 1+1 = 700

Bleep : Er, actually it's 2 not 700

dumba$$2009 : You don't have thorough understanding of the bible and if you weren't ignorant, you would know that 1+1 = 700

Bleep : Wow, that was uncalled for but i guess the author of the bible must be as ignorant as you are

dumba$$2009 : Are you calling me ignorant? Don't worry. I don't have time for people like you who can't have a "rational" discussion without insulting people. If you know who i am, you will know that your unintelligent mind is not up to one of my (dead) brain cells. If you do not believe that 1+1=700, then don't bother commenting on this thread. I only debate with people of "high" intellect and not your type. . .blah blah blah

Bleep : ***wonders if this person is really this mentally reetarded or making it up***

i will ignore the incoherent drivel you have written and furthermore snippets of your retort have not only highlighted your irrationality and ignorance meaning i was right all along it has also shown you are unreasonable and a sandwich short of a picnic

harakiri:

@godson2009. . . You appear to be someone is rational and cool headed in most issues EXCEPT religion. DEEP SIGHT, TUDOR and co have clearly pointed the hypocrisy in your arguments and you still remain adamant on the "supreme morality" of the biblical god. To you, it's permitted for your god's "children" to wipe out entire civilizations in their insatiable greed for land but when boko haram/al qeada strikes, you condemn their actions. Asking the opposing posters about their "gods" is tantamount to beating about the bush coz if you haven't noticed, there are loads of NON-RELIGIOUS people on here (including myself) so asking about their "gods" is preposterous and irrational.

YOU STARTED YOUR COMMENT WITH THIS AND I REPLIED YOU IN SAME WAY WITHOUT ANY BARBS THEN YOU SENT THIS WITHOUT ANY PROVOCATION OR PROMPTING JUST BECAUSE I DIDNT SHEEPISHLY KOW TOW TO YOUR VIEWPOINT
BTW YOUR ERRONEOUS EXPLANATION OF THE REASONS AND THE ACTIONS OF JEPHTAH PROMPTED ME TO SAY YOU WERE DISPLAYING IGNORANCE OF THE LITERAL UNDERSTANDING OF THAT EVENT(YOU EVEN SAID JEHOSHAPHAT OR SOMETHING MEANING YOU HAD ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA NOW TELL ME ISNT THAT IGNORANCE OF THE INCIDENT?)
I didnt say you are an ignorant individual because i dont know you in person,i said you are ignorant of the facts and the reasons surrounding this biblical incident

harakiri:

@dumbson2009. . . You are indeed dumber than a sack of bricks! Inspite of all the rational comments made by myself,tudor,deepsight and pastor aio, you still choose to argue blindly and in that brainwashed-half baked mind of yours, that's a sign of "intelligence". Normally, i dont bother replying trolls and attention seekers such as yourself who relish making baseless myopic arguments all day but i guess i'm in a tolerant mood. Please grab your milk and cookies, then read your bible with a sound mind while relaxing on dad's chair. Putz!

so when i read comments of these sort,you expect me to keep quiet and say yes sir,especially as i didnt direct my comments at you,you only picked up some of my comments and took me up on it

harakiri:

@dumba$$2009 and beyond. . . Your problem is you are incapable of reading/understanding what is written (including YOUR OWN write ups! Pathetic). You say i use verbal barbs and put downs? Perhaps you should call your english instructor to read through all that was written and it would be clear to you that derogatory remarks started with you and you've used them sparingly. You say my intellect isn't up to your (dead) brain cells? Well, my fellow readers will be the judge of that. I no blame u. Na free forum cause am.

more of your perfectly proper and respectful comments directed at an individual you dont know?

harakiri:

Anybody who read what i wrote would think differently but you just had to use snide remarks to make up for your losses. Still need more indicators of your rudeness?

dude,i give as good as i get

harakiri:

For someone who's accusing someone else of using rude verbatim, you sure have a dictionary of your own.

same as the instances of your comments that started it
check the comments between me and tudor which has gone more than one page and several lines and look through it if you will find the quantum of verbal barbs therein that is contained in the short comments between me and you even when she throws her put downs in the midst of her retorts.
trust me,i relate or reply comments the same way you send em to me so if you want the caustic,abrasive side of me then bring it on trust me i dont get tired

@TUDOR,PASTORAIO AND OTHER SUPPORTERS OF IDOL WORSHIP HERE IS ANOTHER LOVELY GESTURE FROM YOUR COMPATRIOTS,

The arrest of a man who sexually assaulted a five-year-old girl before mutilating her womanliness for rituals has put Adamawa state on the spot.
Doctors say the little girl, survivor of the gruesome attack (name withheld), will require reconstruction of her womanliness because of the severity of the mutilation by the suspect, identified as Kunini Jacob.
The commissioner of police in Adamawa State, Adenrele Shinaba who led the parade of Mr Jacob and an herbalist behind the ritual plot, said there will no longer be a resting place for criminals in the state.
Mr Jacob (23), was arrested along with his mother who was allegedly shielding him from security agents. Incidentally, the suspect was only recently released from jail after serving a three-year jail sentence for a related offence.
Mr Jacob told journalists his action was “the work of the devil” and that he was acting on the instruction of an herbalist who told him to procure the intestine of a virgin along with her private part for ritual to give him instant wealth.
Mr Shinaba said Zidon Digga, at Dong Village in Bidoma Development Area of Adamawa state, reported to the police two weeks ago that his five-year-old daughter was missing. He said the little girl was later found in a pool of her blood and rushed to the state Specialist Hospital for treatment.
Azubike Chuks, leader of the doctors that carried out two sets of emergency surgeries on the child, said when she was brought in, her intestine was outside and that the first operation was to return the intestine.
The report showed that the thin layer separating her womanliness and rectum was mutilated by the attacker. The doctor said a third operation is needed to join the two parts together.
Police investigation, however, led to the arrest of the suspect, as well as the herbalist, Mijinyawa Bala of Dong village. But Mr Bala distanced himself from the crime, saying he did not instigate the main suspect to commit the crime.
The police boss said the suspects will be charged to court for the offence of criminal conspiracy, house trespass, kidnapping, violation and attempt to commit culpable homicide.
The young victim is now at the Yola specialist centre awaiting a third surgery. But Mr Azuibike said this will cost several hundred of thousands, which neither the hospital or the child’s family could afford.
“We appealed to public-spirited persons to help and so far only N20,000 has come in,” he told NEXT
Culture of silence
Recently, the state education board dismissed two teachers found guilty of committing paedophilic acts on pupils under their care. One was a head teacher who impregnated one of a female pupil in one of the sub-urban primary schools in Jimeta, while the other involved a teacher in one of the special schools in Jada.
Bakari Adamawa, state chairman of the state universal basic education board blamed what he called “the culture of silence” for the prevalence of sexual abuse of minors in the state.
“We have called the education secretaries and warned them that they should live up to their duties,” he said. “They should make sure head teachers are aware of what is happening in their schools.
“We are coming out with new codes of conduct for teachers and we are also going to carry put special training for teachers on how to handle children. There was another investigation which we couldn’t conclude because the parent didn’t want to talk about it. You know some parents really don’t want to talk about it. It is a really sad experience and they don’t want to recall it.

abeg lets not be naive,if the south west dont want the post of speaker to be zoned to the region what other concievable reason will make them go all out for for it same as the south east.
as it is the southwest due to their failure in the region by virtue of pdp's poor outing really need a federal presence in other to remain relevant

LadyT:

Im confused. Can we not produce all cement locally? Do we have such a high demand we have to import it?

cost of production in nigeria will be higher than abroad due to some infrastructural problems in naija some of which are
diesel
electricity
bribery and corruption
production plans which are well established abroad,we only have mostly re bagging plants in nigeria
not enough cement manufacturers to meet demand
in b and q for instance  average price of cement is less than 700 retail price probably cheaper if you r buying in tonnage

beejaei:

dude, why are you hyper-ventilating? the truth must hurt. P.S. I can afford to feed and house your family for 3 generations without feeling it.

alicia keys

@poster
playing the victim will hardly help the situation as it is now,what exactly do you expect an ngo to do?
your son has an option which is you, n.g.o are for children who have absolutely no option,and the ngo is like a life line for them, you either suck it up and sink or swim with the present situation.
teenagers need boundarries and i believe you have indulged him and allowed him to have his way while he was growing up hence he is almost getting out of hand now, i will suggest you start creating boundaries and swift punishment for the crossing of those boundaries some of those punishment could be impounding his playstation,mobile phone etc
introduce him to new hobbies that will keep him away from negative influences,encourage him to develope new hobbies, present day hip hop started when a group of young black people started to explore musical creativity.

lastly continue to talk to him,he will outgrow it eventually its just part of youthful exuberance, i was worse than your child in my teenage years,and i thank GOD that my parents were patient with me and they can see the results now that i have outgrown it

usewisdom:

That's a pure and capital lie. The ECJ confirms that whether u have been deported or wherever u live in the world, as long as a child of yours have European passport, the parent have right to live in the EU country birth of the child, provided that non of the parent committed any serious crime.

@bolded
not the eu country of birth but the eu country they are resident

you dont need to have that kinda defeatist attitude/mindset towards marriage.there is no good time to get married you will just cut your coat according to what you can afford.
the likes of mike adenuga and the rest were dirt poor when they got married and had their first ,second child/children and you never know if the girl/woman you are getting married to will actually be the one to bring good tidings into your home.besides the woman will be working as well so you will both pool resources together

@post
there is nothing wrong in the woman working/achieving her full potential in my opinion, but the way it works for me is that our family is a company i am the general manager and she is the managing director.
the main bulk of the money we will both be signatories to but i make the decisions as the head of the family this is not to say i wont listen to her i am very traditional and conservative when it comes to the institution of marriage

190:

^wetin fine for there,

if u say so,hows leamington spa these days?use to live in banbury

Ivynwa:

Some parents spoil their children in the name of loving their kids very much.

I thought I was the only one that has noticed how very homely the indians are, very family oriented, teach their children good moral and they can be very warm and hospitable. An ordinary "good morning" greeting from some indians can come out so warm that it can make your entire day, some indians can be very warm and sweet.

true they v not allowed western values to spoil their kids

musKeeto:

Biko, make una give this guy one round of applause



Our pastors today would rather preach TITHES that bring blessing to them, than preach about LOVE that brings blessings to others. And the people keep falling,

thanks brother many of us do not read our bibles but believe everything we are told in church hook line and sinker

Azibalua:

1. You seriously need to go to a bible teaching church.
We are all anointed oh yes. But there are offices that are anointed

dont worry about me,i dont allow any pastor to lecture me on the bible,i always go back and read and confirm every single assertion i will advice you to do the same

Azibalua:

Ephesians 4:11-12
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12 For theperfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

well i dont know about you but i am an annointed evangelist,because what we are both doing now is evangelism or dont you preach and share tracts etc?or what is the meaning of evangelist?
you are teaching me using a number of bible verses that makes you an annointed teacher of the word
the practise of giving ceritificates,etc did not start in the bible ,it started with modern day MOGs,did apostle paul and the rest go to a training school,did timothy go to a training school?
once a man of GOD laid hands on them,the holy spirit came upon them and they took the relevant title which matched their function in the body of christ.so dont let anyone or any church prevent you from taking your possesions.what the lord said in the new testament is that we should prophecy in propotion to our faith.the lord can however allow me more anointing that you or why did you think jesus christ did not call us his slaves?
he said he is not ashamed to call us brothers and sisters and we will jointly inherit the kingdom

Azibalua:


Also Abraham was a prophet

Genesis 20:7-9
7 So now restore to the man his wife, for he is a prophet, and he will pray for you and you will live. But if you do not restore her[ to him], know that you shall surely die, you and all who are yours. 8 So Abimelech rose early in the morning
and called all his servants and told them all these things; and the men were exceedingly filled with reverence and fear. 9 Then Abimelech called Abraham and said to him, What have you done to us? And how have I offended you that you have brought on me and my kingdom a great sin? You have done to me what ought not to be done[ to anyone].

2.Then who do you think the elders refer to.

3.That is one in a million pastors,don't judge others by your one experience.

you are totally right abraham was a prophet but so are several otherpeople as well the lord did not say you must be a prophet to be annointed,you can be any of the highlighted above as long as a true servant of GOD has laid hands on you or are you comparing abraham to our modern day MOG?

harakiri:

@dumba$$2009 and beyond. . . Your problem is you are incapable of reading/understanding what is written (including YOUR OWN write ups! Pathetic). You say i use verbal barbs and put downs? Perhaps you should call your english instructor to read through all that was written and it would be clear to you that derogatory remarks started with you and you've used them sparingly. You say my intellect isn't up to your (dead) brain cells? Well, my fellow readers will be the judge of that. I no blame u. Na free forum cause am.

guess i will be obliged if you pointed out where i have directed derogatory remarks at your person,not even Tudor that i have been arguing with did i use derogatory remarks at.
free and friendly advice for you,its not a must to post comments when intellectual discussions/debates are going on if you have something to add then do so without allowing verbal barbs to take anything out of your comments as it will not make you sound intelligent but the opposite either you or anyone accept my stance on the issues under discussion is of no issue,after all we all have different beliefs and the world will be boring if we all did the same thing but dont even call anyone dumb or stupid or whatever just cause they dont agree with you,
people like you in real life will probably slap or get violent when arguing and its not going your way

Tudór:

You dey mind the dude? Just interested in going merry go round.

1. Fact; I have shown your God has no problems receiving the blood of a Human for sins. Be it his son, cousin, or Uncle's blood no one gives a hoot. Not all Gods can produce sons. Human blood is Human blood.

this is where personal beliefs differ,i really cant comment on this cause this comment is not only erroneous in its entirety but begaars belief, symbolism plays a huge part here and if you dont get that by now then im sorry i cant help you

Tudór:

2. Fact; I have shown you where your God commanded the death/ MURDER of innocents including infants, babies, innocent children, pregnant women, virgins etc. Whether they were murdered as a Human sacrifice or not No one gives a hoot. Basic thing THEY Where KILLED on The INSTRUCTIOn OF YOUR GOD. Murder is murder.

murder is not murder that is why soldiers in afghanistan/iraq were not prosecuted in a court oflaw but osama bin laden and his co horts had a bounty on their head i really cant explain it to you clearer than that

Tudór:

4. Fact. Murder is Murder. Killing babies is Killing babies call it war, ritual or raids. No one gives a crap. Why will grown soldiers fight innocent agiainst infants? Name it Human sacrifice or Murdering 300 men on a mountain coz they worship baaal. According to you, You wipe out a Group of people "synonymous" with "evil". That's very rich. Kill innocent children and label them synonymous with evil. Their only crime? They were born to the wrong parents. Clap for yourselves.

in a state of war,there is something called collateral damage,unlike your gods he did not demand that babies blood should be shed in sacrificial obedience to him they were caught in the cross fire same way children and innocents were killed on bombing and strafing raids in modern day war situation.
as for the prophets of baal,go and do some reading aroung that event before interjecting conjectures here,i wont even dignify it with an answer

Tudór:

3. Christians now and the jews of old worship Idols as far as other people are concerned. The same way you view other peoples Gods as Idols so also they have a right to view yours as idols. And since when has someone else worshipping another God been a justification for genocide, infanticide and ethnic cleansing?

fair enough the problem is that i dont bow down to any graven image which is the basic explanation of idol worship, your gods are seen as idols cause they are noting more than graven images that people pour blood,oil and what not on
you have a right to your believe that david and his followers killing the amalekites,is a proper justificatio and rationalisation for using all sorts of people for ritual,im sorry i dont share that belief as i see it as cold blooded murder IMO

Tudór:

4 . As for your rant about Deut 7. Yea I read the remaining passages. What did I see there? I sent u to kill them, and their babies because I love only you and promised your fathers their land Are you insane? Erm how does that Justify the killing of babies and children? WHAT WAS THEIR CRIME? You are yet to answer this very simple question. They are now "tumours" right? Tell that to the US Army. They'll surely find your Tumour application useful in afghanistan and Murder everyone afterall they are in a state of "war". The war woulda been over years ago.

since its obvious you neither have the basic understandingnor the exigesis of not only deut7 nor other instances of this nature in the bible i guess i can knock you on that note.the israelites were a group of liberated slaves passing through enemy territory for 40 years,many either wanted to conquer them for the booty they had to take them as slaves e.t.c so unless you are advocating that because they were in the bible,they should not fight their way out but keep running or praying then i will be interested to know what you would have done differently in the same situation, go and check the quran which i have read extensively and ahadiths,during the meccan  times but mostly a large part of the medinan times and crusades of the prophet mohammad this was the same way he was able to build his islamic community so this transends christianity or whatever you want to call it. when david went out to war why didnt you give the example of the people that destroyed everything he had and then take his wives and children as slaves?
before making comments on history,go and study it,what the situation was like then and how people across the board settled scores

Tudór:

5. You keep missing what's infront of you and dancing around. "reasonable reason for completely
barbaric,pointless and baffling human
sacrifices". Well, its the same reason why Your God is allowed to wake up one morning and Murder 70,000 people because of a census or command that entire cities including children be wiped out and he is not labelled evil. Maybe I shlould leave it the the Great Nuclearboy to answer you in simple clear terms. Infact I couldn't have put it any better.

im the one dancing round while the only recurrent point you have been harping on from the beginning till now is the murder of 70,000 people in a state of warfare i might add as justification for the continuous,pre meditated systematic cold blooded murder of new born babies amongst other demographics you r a star honestly

Tudór:

The same way Yahweh has a right to order the death of anyone and everyone including infants, SO Do the Gods of our Land. They created us all and can demand 1 million heads for their gratification. Does not the OWNER have right over His property? If you don't like this, take it up with Nuclearboy.

true but you are missing something here in your obstinacy to keep on banging at the same wall
1.they were defending and fighting their way through enemy territory(to confirm this google the map of the journey of the israelites after they left egypt)
2.our progenys and your gods had no such connundrum,they had absolutely no need for the bloodshed which is what is pissing me off
why would anyone tell me then to celebrate the anniversary of one of his many gods,they dont want goat,cow but human blood then every year in sucession isnt that preposterous
isnt it awesomely stupid for anyone to say that the skin of another human being made into a cream and applied over them will cause people to vote for them in an election and you are seriously rationalising these kind of actions against the israelites in the middle with enemies surrounding them seriously

Tudór:

6; well well well, you agree Jesus came to right the "wrongs" of the old testament. I like that. You do admit your God got it wrong. So also african traditional religions. There is a reformation going on. Just like the reformed ogboni fraternity and others where old unhealthy practices have been thrown aside. There are some bad eggs yes but that doesn't mean others aren't trying to reform. That u look down on them because of their tainted history when yours is also as bloody nad dirty just makes you a HYPOCRITE.

i dont just agree,its in the bible and what he said was that there was no need to sacrifice goats and bullocks for the forgiveness of sin and this was the right he came to correct its in the bible or a quick google search will highlight this for you.
well i see your idea of reformation is the ritual murders going on in different parts of africa,and i guess you can vouch for the so called reformed ogboni that they absolutely dont have anything to do with human sacrifice on their say so?

Tudór:

7. The Gods are said to be Just and fair. They do not condone evil or greed. So those who you mentioned using pregnant women, albinos, bla bla bla, human parts for money making rituals, political power, protection etc they are strictly on their own and the Gods do not accept such.

they r not just neither are they fair they are the personification of evil and if they are not greedy they wont keep on demanding for so much blood even in this day and age.if they dont accept the pregnant women,albinos and what not who are all those people sacrificing to their alter ego?
you are not allowed to conclusiely say your gods are just and fair when all the evidence shows otherwise,when you have not being to give any rational reason for their blood sacrifices.its funny you are now the spokes person for those gods,maybe you should ask them to please start accepting the blood of goats and chicken in place of innocent virgin children,albinos human heads

Tudór:

8. And as for this, "moreover the instances you have given
WERE IN A STATE OF
WARFARE it is totally different from
COLD BLOODED MURDER", Package it in a cold envelope, seal it then send it to Charles Taylor's lawyers at the war crimes tribunal in the Hague or U can backdate it and address it to Adolf Hitlers Generals in the Nurumberg trial, I'm sure they'll find it useful.

phew!not again, charles taylor committed cold blooded murder by getting his soldiers to hack off human hands,using children as soldiers, i wonder where that resonates?? i mean hacking of human body parts and children being expressely and deliberately used
so far all you have continually harped on is the rationalisation of war on the basis of GOD commanding the israelites to fight the amalekites the difficult one for you to explain you have ignored and glossed over i.e rational justification for wholesale murder and blood and human sacrifice and i might add as well cannibalism, im sure you know your progenitors especially in certain parts of nigeria that i wouldnt like to mention still indulge in till the present time?