₦airaland Forum

vooks:
Faith, right motive, pure heart, not grudgingly don't make a Mosaic Law a Christian doctrine

Tithing has existed more than 400years before Mosaic law came about.

vooks:
circumcision is as relevant as animal sacrifices and if you have contrary opinion, please say so and explain that much in the fewest words

Hebrews 7:18 (KJV)
For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof. 19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.

Was circumcision before or after the law? Why the above verse?

Meanwhile, what about the covenant God sealed with circumcision? Did He annul it? Provide scriptures if you can.

vooks:
Why won't you circumcise Abaham style using the SAME faith?
Faith is commendable but no amount of faith can transform an expired practice into a sound doctrine. Try slaughtering Jesus a lamb

You know you've gone on with this circumcision thing, and I've tried to let you wallow in your knowledge but, a brief writ to get your mind alive. You call circumcision an expired practice? Ok, I thought it was a covenant between God and Abraham to be carried out in ALL generation.

Genesis 17 MSG from v9
God continued to Abraham, “And you: You will honor my covenant, you and your descendants, generation after generation. This is the covenant that you are to honor, the covenant that pulls in all your descendants: Circumcise every male. Circumcise by cutting off the foreskin of the p.enis; it will be the sign of the covenant between us . Every male baby will be circumcised when he is eight days old, generation after generation—

Please educate me, how did circumcision become an expired practice? Remeber we became the decendants of Abraham by faith in Chriist Jesus.

Put these in perspective. This was the covenant sealed with circumcision.

1. To make Abraham the father of many nations and of many descendants and give "the whole land of Canaan" to his descendants.[Gen 17:2-9].

2. Circumcision is to be the permanent sign of this everlasting covenant with Abraham and his male descendants and is known as the brit milah.[Gen 17:9-14]

3. Covenants in biblical times were often sealed by severing an animal, with the implication that the party who breaks the covenant will suffer a similar fate. In Hebrew, the verb meaning to seal a covenant translates literally as "to cut". It is presumed by scholars that the removal of the foreskin symbolically represents such a sealing of the covenant


Service has started! See you boys later! I know someone will quote Romans 2:29 and so on...

trustman:
No wonder you guys arrive at the conclusions you get to.

You take a passage about Abraham's unwavering trust in God, make your own meaning out of it, stamp that meaning into your tithing position and then run along 'exciting' yourselves that you are doing right.

If you tithe because you want to assuage your conscience, or satisfy your church or present a scorecard before others then you may succeed in meeting those goals. But only a right motive will please God. Anything, including TITHING not done in line with God's way becomes wood, hay and chaff before Him.

Well, let God determine that. Until he comes, I wikl keep tithing, be very much assured I do these with the right motive and a pure heart, not grudgingly and debates.

It Pays To Be Loyal - Sunday, November 23rd .

Pastor Chris

Though he slay me, yet will I trust in him: but I will maintain mine own ways before him (Job 13:15).

The above statement of trust and loyalty represents Job's affirmation of faith in God, in the face of daunting challenges. He was terribly afflicted; his condition got so severe and hopeless that his wife, in sneering aversion to his troubles, said to him, “...Dost thou still retain thine integrity? curse God, and die” (Job 2:9).

But Job, the Bible says, maintained his trust and integrity in the Lord, and wouldn't sin against God. His condition didn’t provoke him to make the wrong confessions (Job 2:10); how admirable.

Then in Job 13:15, despite his limited understanding and knowledge of God, he made a rather thought-provoking statement, saying, “Though he slay me, yet will I trust in him: but I will maintain mine own ways before him.” Job’s attitude teaches that no matter how critical or uncomfortable your condition might be, remain trusting and loyal to the Word. For the tenacity of his trust and loyalty to God, the Bible says God “...blessed the latter end of Job more than his beginning...” (Job 42:12).

Consider also the loyalty of Peter and the other disciples who chose to remain with Jesus after some of His disciples took offence at His teachings and stopped following Him. These rebellious disciples felt uncomfortable with some of the things they heard the Master say and reacted, “...This is an hard saying; who can hear it...” (John 6:60)? They thus walked away from Him.

Jesus then turned to Peter and the other disciples and asked, “Will you also go away?” Peter answered, “No Lord. We're with you for life, because we believe your message; we believe you're the Christ.”

He and the other disciples remained with Jesus. Guess what? Before the Lord ascended, He said to them, “...I appoint to you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed to me; That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel” (Luke 22:29-30).

It pays to be loyal. When things seem difficult and challenging, don’t join those who look for other options or the easy way out. Remain loyal and trust the Lord to turn things around in due time.

Prayer...
Dear Father, I thank you for giving me a heart that’s loyal, faithful and steadfast in your service and to your Word. Irrespective of daunting challenges and difficulties, I remain unperturbed, conscious that you perfect all that concerns me, in Jesus’ Name. Amen.

Further Study:
Colossians 3:23
And whatsoever ye do, do it heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men;

Numbers 12:7 My servant Moses is not so, who is faithful in all mine house.

Daily Scripture Reading

1-Year Bible Reading Plan: 1 Peter 1:22-2:1-25, Ezekiel 29-30
2-Year Bible Reading Plan: Jude 1:1-11, Daniel 11-12

trustman:
No wonder!

Yeah

trustman:
Gombs,
How does this passage relate to giving or tithing?

When I give or tithe I stagger not at the promise of God through unbelief; but I'd be strong in faith, giving glory to God;

trustman:
What does giving in faith, [size=20pt]Abraham's faith mean?[/size]

[KJV] Romans 4:20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;:

Simple

trustman:
Can you please clarify the above.

I don't know how else.

Bidam:
With all pleasure.
I demand you apologize for calling me a liar.

It's like waiting for a plane at a seaport.

WinsomeX:
I am telling Bidam, whom I was discussing with before you jumped into the fray without understanding what we are even saying, to quote me correctly to relevant subjects!

We were discussing tithes, Galatians and Christian curses and seeing that the logic of his presentations had been soundly rebutted, he admits he cannot continue the discuss by making a statement that I had won (I wonder if it that was to make me happy or whar) and then brings issues of my criticising popular ministers. And I admit I criticize them within a context but I am pleading to understand how such relate to the subject we are discussing. If it is not another attempt to turn the tide.

Ok

Bro bidam, no need engaging vooks, ignore him to avoid derailment of a beautiful thread as this.

@OP

The world belongs to Him. But some in the world are His creatures, while some others are His children. He has a good will for all His creatures—everyone in the world—but more specifically, He has a divine destiny for His children—everyone who’s born again.

Nice words

WinsomeX:
Those are my words and I am sure you can see the context in which they were made.

Now how do those quotes relate to the subject of tithing, Galatians or even the matter of Christians and curses that we have been talking about?

Can you yourself see my point of how you evade issues by dragging matters into unrelated subjects?

I don't understand! Should we take in parts your words and ignore the rest? Huh?

trustman:
I hope you know that the word 'however' carries a lot of weight. 

What do you mean by that you "give by faith however"?

What do you mean by "Love propels me"?

I give my givings in faith, Abraham’s faith.... I give with love in my heart

^^
This was another of his classic

Which of the people did you say are not around... the WoF brood of vipers that litter the Lag/Ibad expressway , the ones on TBN or the ones whose billboard are all over our streets and television? Oh, if you mean Hagin, ah ... I get you. We don't need him. We have enough of him around to answer queries on his behalf, if they can.

https://www.nairaland.com/1939255/bankruptcy-prosperity-gospel-exercise-biblical/7#27281244

WinsomeX the righteous. He called fellow christians who gather to worship as brood of vipers... i don't want to quote the place he declare we are all going to hell.

trustman:
How did you decide; because you're trying to avoid a negative consequence of not giving or to make God feel obliged to give you some positive things?

Your true motive for deciding is what will determine if it falls in line with scriptural prescription or outside God's approved way of approaching it.

Let me ask you this: Does your basis of decision fall in line with 2 Corinthians 9:7?

Yes!
I give by faith however. Love propels me

trustman:
Not if he has "decided in his heart, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.". 2 Corinthians 9:7

Good..But I have decided so, so has million others, why do some guys still hunt me for it?

vooks:
Nobody should prescribe to a Christian WHAT to give, they should give without compulsion (threats, manipulation) whatever they purpose in their hearts (not arbitrary FIXED percentages)

Should a Christian be forced to stop tithing?

trustman:
The real problem is that (and it has been shown even on this thread; examples were sighted) Christians are being 'forced' to COMPULSORILY do those things you have listed as NOT being compulsory. That is the tragedy.

It is not the issue of forcing one's belief on another. It is that of simply getting what the scripture says should obtain.

In this case: should the Christian give? Yes. Must the Christian tithe? No.

Exactly, it isn't a must. A quick quiz....should a Christian be forced to stop tithing? If yes, why?

Bidam:
For God's sake!! When will Christians move past this self-destructive arguments and let others feel free to enjoy how God leads them in their daily lives?

I only wish they knew how much time they're wasting. True gospel preachers indeed.

Bidam:
Gombs my man..How's the IPPC going?

Great bro... it's something else. I just knew the job to do is even greater. No more dragging irrelevancies here. I'd start an online outreach to the middle east. Alot of grounds to cover bro. For those here who knew how the church should be, I pray they translate it into the physical. How can God tell them how his church should be, and all they do is type all day, criticizing? It's certain, THEY ARE NOT OF GOD. simple.

I'm off for the morning session. Cheers

Two Kinds Of Destiny -Saturday, November 22nd .

Pastor Chris

Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified (Romans 8:30).There’re two destinies for every man.

There’s the natural destiny and there’s the divine destiny. Natural destiny is controlled by such factors as the family in which you were born, your country of birth, the people you’re associated with, the information you’ve received or education, etc. All of these have an impact on your natural destiny.

For example, there’re some who are rich, not by virtue of any achievement of their own, but because of the family to which they were born. That’s their natural destiny.

Natural destiny, however, does not exclude the divine mighty hand of God; He has the generic involvement in the world. The world belongs to Him. But some in the world are His creatures, while some others are His children. He has a good will for all His creatures—everyone in the world—but more specifically, He has a divine destiny for His children—everyone who’s born again.

The divine destiny for any man only begins when he’s born again. That’s when God becomes your Father and starts leading you. That’s when He sends His Holy Spirit to live in you and to guide you. The Holy Spirit then takes residence in the quarters of your heart.

You’re thus different from the world. Like Jesus said in John 15:19, “…I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.” Everyone that’s born again is not of this world. You’ve been chosen out of this world by Jesus. He’s got His mark on you.

How can you tell whether a man is fulfilling natural destiny or fulfilling divine destiny? It's simple: who gets the glory in his life? In the things he does, who gets to be honoured? Who receives the praise? Whose power is behind what he does? For whom does he live? If all the answers turn out to be the Lord, then that's divine destiny, according to the Bible.

Confession...
My life is for the glory of God! I was born to give Him honour, and show forth His virtues and perfection in this world. Your wisdom, grace, and righteousness are revealed, as you make manifest the savour of your knowledge through me in every place; this is my destiny: living for the One who loved me and gave Himself for me!

Further Study:

2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Jeremiah 1:5
Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations. ; 

Ephesians 1:11
In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

Daily Scripture Reading

1-Year Bible Reading Plan: 1 Peter 1:1-21, Ezekiel 27-28
2-Year Bible Reading Plan: 3 John, Daniel 9-10

trustman:
So, coming back to tithing and the New Covenant believer; if he claims he is tithing according to its mention in the OT, the question then is what is the OT prescription for tithing and is the NT believer following it as stipulated there? If so how? If not exactly so, why?

I'd take it as you have an answer. Thank you.

trustman:
If what he's doing is a great job then you are all to be very pitied.

Thanks for your pity, you should save it for yourself on your long lost integrity and honesty.

Meanwhile, here's a chance to redemption: Can you quote a clear scripture where Moses lay a curse on non tithers?

Great evening I had...evening to you all. Bidam...great job

nannymcphee:
You want to start again o!! what do you mean BLW is richer than some COUNTRIES? Based on what statistics?

Do a little googling on countries in the carribean, then get back to me. 105million copies of ROR were distributed this year, by N130 or $0.77 it's $81, 000, 000. Leave Bibles, innercity mission, etc out.

Do you know how many of the CE churches worldwide are in internal debt? Owing for rhapsody, owing for partnership, owing for even this past RON ?

Ok, holla me when it's external debt. Shey those CE churches are in BLW? Did I say CE XYZ is richer than some countries, or BLW NATION?

I don't want to wash any dirty linen outside!!

It's your head ache, not mine.

If indeed what you said is true, how come you aren't doing what the early Christians did, they sold their possession & laid it on the apostle feet:not to build church or sponsor books but to share amongst everyone such that no one lacked

How many of your possessions have you sold and laid it on the feet of your Apostle? See how warped your thinking can get? Share so that no one lacked abi? Churches should not be built and books should not be sponsored shey? God help your reasoning. Amen

how has that wealth affected the ordinary folks including those in the ministry?

If you don’t like how things are ran in CE and know how it should be done...please go start your own the right way. Don’t forget to call WinsomeX along. Ordinary folks? So there are rich, average and ordinary in the Church of God? haven't you heard of HELPS dept? What of brethren empowerment initiatives? Your own better idea is to make everyone who is 'ordinary folks' queue, and share for them the monies from the possesion others sold, shey? Clap for yourself

There is a lot you don't know about the ministry, you are just talking based on the little you know, I know staffs of virtually every arm of the minstry, some were my members in school or friends!! So I know what I'm talking about

Yeah right...the honest nannymcphee. I will have to re-learn how to take you very serious.

NB: there is no such thing as staffs, in English language anyway. You don't pluralise staff. Thank you.

GIDEON'S bible:free not to be sold has gone around the world more than any Christian book & the money used in doing that wasn't through tithing or mandated funds

IF you could read, you'd have noticed I said "second only to the Bible". And yes, some folks paid for the Bibles to be shared free.... they are however not more than 120 different languages, are they? And yes "the union" were given responsibility/mandated for funding the Bibles. Read here to help your ignorance

http://www.gideons.org/AboutUs/OurHistory.aspx

How many times have you heard them soliciting for funds?

God help your ignorance.
GIDEONS go around to churches and speak, most Baptists churches have the Gideons there once a year or more and the churches make donations or pledges to help buy bibles for that purpose. Some private individuals give to them yearly as well...when a person donates they can determine where they want the bibles placed, they can be for soldiers (green testaments) or the Red testaments that they hand out at schools.

I'm sure you think God hand it down to them, or they called some folks and asked them to donate or wrote some mega churches for donations. Anyways if they wrote mega churches (I know some who's written CE) for funds, it's not a bad idea.... some churches however has to be mega, no? Or like Candour and WinsomeX, the church should be small for the way is narrow, and only a few find it? Ok ma...

Rhapsody being the second book to the bible according to God or man? why should a book be compared to a bible?

Are you sure you are ok... is that what I wrote or what your smart mind could conjure?

those 105millions copies if translated into Cash, do you know the good it will do amongst the Christian community & humanity

That's the Spirit of Judas...
[NLT] John 12:5 “That perfume was worth a year’s wages. It should have been sold and the money given to the poor.”
[NLT] John 12:6 Not that he cared for the poor—he was a thief, and since he was in charge of the disciples’ money, he often stole some for himself.

To change a man, you have to first change the way he thinks. The word changes anyone and anything, that's why we send the word. All the monies government has been sinking in the lives of humanity, how come there hasn't been a utopia? All the monies bill Gates has sent to Africa, what impact has it done to humanity? We csn give them 81million dollar and still come in 5 years time and meet them in the same poverty.

We are smarter.,, we take the word to them, not cash.

how many do you think was really read?

None.

Go to some CE churches now, you will find TONS of cartons of rhapsody(October edition-reach Nigeria copies), not distributed

Ok

You are here quoting figures

Noted

Don't blame me in future if I ignore posts you direct to me, especially the ones suffering from heavy deficiency of common sense.

SirJohn:
Oh croyez-moi que je vais... Surveillez cet espace !

Je regarde cet espace. Vous serez là pour émerveiller.

Bidam:
Bro..that's guys fixation is not only tithes o but eve sleeping with the serpent ask babagnoni his friend if na lie i lie.

No mind trustman who sold his honesty for a morsel of amala.

SirJohn:

Folie des grandeurs

Appelez ça comme vous voulez .... Je marche par son Esprit. Me citer dans l'avenir

trustman:
Gombs,
I hope you are not losing it.

Notice I did not say the Mosaic law did not have in it practices that may have been before it. When the Mosaic law came it became the yardstick for the spiritual life of those under it. To that extent it superseded what was before it. Those under it did not need to RESORT to going back to pre-law institutions to live their spiritual lives.

So the NT believer today needs to understand what the New Covenant is all about so as to know what is required of him or not.

So, coming back to tithing and the New Covenant believer; if he claims he is tithing according to its mention in the OT, the question then is what is the OT prescription for tithing and is the NT believer following it as stipulated there? If so how? If not exactly so, why?

Bobo, no time for petty leagues and dragging with you fellas... I am gonna raise an online army, by his Spirit...there's alot of ground to conquer online... I've got NL covered, you may want to know I raised LambanoPeace and vivydoxa.... it's time to lock down the media with the message of the spirit, this gospel must be taken round more voraciously.

I have a purpose here, a vision, I was not sent here to drag tithing and such with you all... it's time to mobilize all those my folks on NL. We've gotta take facebook, wordpress and for Christ.

Priceless words!

You must learn to give expression to your joy. Always be cheerful and exuberant with praise, knowing that it takes a joyful and happy person to make others joyful and happy. If you're not joyful, you can’t effectively preach the Gospel and win others to Christ.

This gospel must go round o!