₦airaland Forum

BabaGnoni:
You obviously are not very familiar with the Highway Code signs
Warning sign is not a Stop sign and vice versa.
- Stop sign is an Order. Warning sign is what it says on the tin or label, a Warning (i.e. as in, be informed, be alert, be careful, be aware etcetera)

I had never CONDEMNED tithing but when opportune I've always intimated any that will listen of the higher law and warned of the unnecessity of tithing
- any act of choosing between to or not to is entirely up to the concerned after obtaining the information

Gombs, what I DETEST & CONDEMN is/are the teaching(s) that put fear into tithe-defaulter(s), tithe-abstainers, tithe-agnostics etcetera
What I dislike intensely and shrink from are people using "right or set of rights, jurisdiction either comically, morally, theologically or arbitrarily to try and manipulate, conjure, coerce and/or lie to anyone to paying their tithes"

No offense but you sounded like a baby in a pram crying when a toy was taken off him when you posted "You can warn a Christian to stop tithing iF AND ONLY IF you have a scripture condeming tithing in its entirety. Until then, you have no right or set of rights, jurisdiction either comically, morally, theologically or arbitrarily to try and manipulate, conjure, coerce and/or lie to anyone to STOP or WARN them about paying their tithes"

As for you saying "Wise choice buddy! You cannot block the sun with one finger. Go and sin no more, your sins are forgiven you."

Gombs, it wasn't a wise choice situation because I actually gave up on you and stopped hoping you'll see the light from the sun blocked with one finger
- I have repented of giving up on you, as everybody deserves another chance

Let's say like, the God of another chance(s) I too believe, we all deserve a second, third, fourth up to nth chance to get things right
Gombs, I believe in your ability to change and rise above tithe-ignorances and present or past tithe teaching mistakes

My man, good morning. Well I quite agree with most of your write ups, especially folks being threatened from the pulpit and sometimes forced to tithe. Notwithstanding, I also believe your warning and stop sign illustration are almost same thing.

A brother who's known and loved tithing maybe from experiences cannot be warned to stop, neither will want to stop. With further warning and stop signs, you only make yourself an entity trying to hack down his liberty to tithe.

mbaemeka:
I agree with everything you said above. Why I said the emboldened in the previous post cracked me up is that it contradicted what some other poster said and that poster was endorsing your post yet he didn't spot the contradiction which is: yes 17.5% whether per month or annum is right but it will be less than 22% whether per month or annum.

Wuru wuru meant that you shunted the process to arrive at your answer but now seeing that you wrote 110% and not 110 then you were also right.

Unfortunately, I support Arsenal FC so I am distracted by the champions league game I am currently watching.

cheers.

Ah...gunner noni... chop knuckle. No mind Sanogo and Arteta

vooks:
Gombs,
[s]The same pride you are exhibiting in fault finding coupled with FAILURE to admit goofing is the kind of attitude cult leaders dream of and move heavens to cultivate in their sheeple. That your conscience does not prick you means it is DEAD to correction. No amount of truth can penetrate it. Sad

I said 10% * 11= 110% not 110.

[s]Let me help your puny brains overheat.
If you paid your full salary in Jan and tithed for the remaining 11 months, it is equivalent to tithing for twelve straight months plus throwing in 90% of a month's salary. How much are you paying per month?
1. The normal 10%
2. The one off antiretroviral January 90%

Now, spread the 90% across the 12 months and you get 7.5%. So per month you are giving the normal 10% plus the 'exceptional' 7.5%. Total is 17.5%

Go lick your wounds in private and come back refreshed and mannered [/s]

Vooks......... go and sleep o! As you think nothing nothing was wrong with your initial math, and percentages, and 'per monrh on average' ...fine. I thought the first one was sensible? Now you've remixed it.
Thanks.

Tell the poster whonquoted me last to follow WinsomeX please. Good night. It's been a great day here.

WinsomeX:
Who has said anything about 10% * 11? It is nowhere on my post.

Apparently, since you had succeeded in twisting the percentage matter, I like vooks, resorted to using ordinary numbers and still arrived at the same answer.

If as a Maths Professional you will not admit an error you have so clearly made, how will admit to doctrinal errors?

Use the 100, 000 income you suggested to vooks and let's see your conclusion.

You never cease to amaze me! lol. . .you applauded vooks' math,now you deny him? notice he said 17.5% on a monthly average. all these were ok,you did not see them.

I see you want to bow out,cheer buddy,pls take trustman along.

@christembassey, when animals when get horn dey relate,snail too dey raise hand?

start from page 7 and update yourself,i was not calculating Peoples salaries,you blind?

trustman:
While you are at playing maths, I await:
1. Your 'Thank you' for my eye-opener to you on Acts 15 position. 
2. Your apology. 

Stop quoting me! If you haven't found my reply to your wrong thinking of Acts 15, then please watch from afar, and stop quoting me. Apology huh? For telling you how you conveniently exercised your 'freedom of speech" and trading your honesty for a morsel of amala?

WinsomeX:
Gombs, this thing is easy now.

Now for the sake of clarity, let's assume my salary is N100 and I believe in tithing and first fruiting.

My annual income will be N1200.

I will give firstfruit in Jan of 100.

I will pay tithes for the remaining 11 months of N10 each month, amounting to N110.

In all I will be giving the church 100 + 110 = N210.

Therefore, I am giving N210 of the N1,200 annual income. The simple question that is usually asked not in 4 years of UNIJOS Mathematics but Common Entrance is: What percentage of my total income is given to the church?

Answer:

210/1200 * 100 = 17.5%.

Thank me if you wish, too.

In all honesty, is 10% * 11 = 110? I did not attack your percentage, as I did not even calculate further after spotting errors, I asked you to look whether anything was wrong, and you implied nothing was.

Then this Total- 110%+100%= 210% . Notice the '%'... the '%' miraculously ran away.

Never admitting wrong... I'm not amazed bro

vooks:
My brother,
It's a shame that for all your maths you can't think using numbers. Gifs don't require numbers.

Supposing you earn 100,000 Naira. For ease of computation let's assume it is constant throughout the year.
In January since you dread catching HIV, you pay your first fruit unlike Jeff. 100% of your salary. That's 100,000

Feb to Dec you faithfully tithe 10% each month. Your gross income for the eleven months is 100,000* 11= 1,100,000
So you pay 10% of that to Anita, that is 110,000

Total MANDATORY payments for the year is 110,000+ 100,000= 210,000
Your gross salary for the year is 100,000* 12= 1,200,000
Total mandatory payments as a fraction/percentage of your annual gross pay is (210,000/1,200,000)% or 17.5%

Negro, get a refund from your college and stick to silly gifs

Simply admit wrong. 10%*11 is not equal to 110. Input 100, 000 into the formula I gave you and see magic. I never expected you to admit wrong, , it's your trademark. The above blue is totally crazy!

Fraction/percentage and the answer was in percentage? Dear Lord! 210, 000/1.2mill is 0.175 remember you put % outside the parenthesis, meaning your answer is 0.175%, which miraculously turned 17.5 still with the '%'

Vooks, I don't have strength, you are right, carry go!

WinsomeX:
I pity you. You haven't seen confusion. When the classes begin, then you will see confusion at its highest form.

As for the Maths, please do me the favor, show me where i or vooks were wrong and you will earn my apology on that; [size=2pt] right away. I won't delay it like your Bayelsan Debtor, running everywhere looking for how to prove SirJohn wrong. I hope he finally finds a way of turning positive HIV to negative. You better advice him to pay up or his shame will not end on this forum.[/size]

SMh...

Ok, from his wild assumptions, m

Normal tithes between Feb and Dec -10% * 11= 110%

10% * 11 don't give you 110, does it? Meanwhile the formula should be (10x * 12)/100; where x is the salary or increase for the month. We divided by 12 asumming tithe was paid all year.

January First Fruits- 100% this is supposed to be divided by 11 to get a round commutative figure. Or alternatively, after calculating tihes, you do firstfruits as a whole 100% then add.

Total- 110%+100%= 210% wrong.... in fact, you scored zero from starting, no need explaining further.

[s]So you give 210% of your Gross or Net in 12 months or 17.5% per month on average[/s]

Thank me if you wish!

vooks:
Playing dumb in as much glib

At lesst you showed your poor mathematics ability, you sure were not playing dumb.

MostHigh:
My Apologies.

No wahala

Thank God for the Holy Spirit. Nice one OP

MoshHigh.... you've got me confused though... slow it down.

WinsomeX:
Thank you vooks for the clarity. They are not only beleaguered with faulty theology, they also are weighed down with faulty Maths comprehension.

I remember once upon a time, the Bayelsan Half-a-Million Naira debtor stating:

1 - 2 = 1.

Errors everywhere!

Drummaboy, you never cease to amaze me. Look at the math vooks calculated again, if you think nothing is wrong with it...then ask me to show you and vooks how you failed woefully in simple arithmetics.

Note, I did 4 years in Math Dept, University of Jos. You don’t want to try mathematics with me.

mbaemeka:
Galatians 2:20 KJV

I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Pauk said the life I live IN THE FLESH. Which means the I lives in the flesh and the I is not the flesh. What is it the I? James 2:26 answers it.

Man is a spirit. He has a soul but he lives in a body.

Thank you jare

Bidam:
Allow the children to enjoy their toys.Let's watch them, when they are tired of rantings and biles they will stop. They have wandered like stray dogs.Don't give them fuel for their ammo.

I know them na... i know them wellllllllll

Goshen360:
Cheap advert!!!

I have a day job and carry the gospel with me everywhere and preach it at the slightest opportunity. Your pastor Chris na "full time" job he get naw for ministry abi I lie ni?

How many have you brought up in Faith? Lie to yourself is allowed sha.

Vooks, I don't subscribe to redundancy. Thanks

Candour, your post has been dealt with here already. Hagin was not against tithing, you walk in a curse for not tithing, God is not cursing you, you simply truncated someccertain blessing which ae not compulsory to have.

Goshen360:
Like say you no dey training....we sabi una...na so una hero take start naw...

Go siddon for gutter jooor.... Pastor Chris did what you couldn’t. He was bold for the gospel, , everywhere, you na to siddon type.

WinsomeX:
While they may have kept away from the 22%, they have however succeeded in collecting 100% in January. If you do the maths, that will amount to an average 17.5% per month of gullible worshippers resources; that's not including offerings, Dec 7 Pastor birthday bash, IPPC, "ati be be lo". At the close of the day, these Pastors are collecting way above the 22% Moses collected.

Man of God business is good business... no wonder David Oyedepo is the richest Pastor in the world. Only Nigerians can be this stup-id.

Drummaboy eh! Hahhahhaahaahhaahahaha

I like you sense of humor. Bidam see this guy mathematics. CEC ft Winners.

Goshen...you see why I said you're confused?

Read what you typed and see whether I said we re bounded by the law. Meehn!

. Gombs is another fraud of CE in apprentice school and in training.

This got me cracking though

Kenny4lyfe:
@Gombs pls check your mail. Thanks!

Nothing yet o!

[quote author=Candour post=28363904]

Hear Hagin on page 88

Bobo, you've quoted him outta context, now flip your pages back to page 67, don't worry, see the pic below

color=#000099]I've also heard preachers try to hammer Christians by quoting from Malachi chapter 3 saying that they are cursed if they don't pay tithes and give offerings. Obviously, this is not correct. While the people of Malachi's day were under the Law of Moses, the New Testament plainly declares that Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the Law (Gal. 3:13). [/color]

Who is lying now? You or me?

I still think you are . Howbeit, not exactly a lie
Notice he was against preachers hammering christians in a threat that they are cursed, I wrote he who doesn't places himself in a curse (limit yourselve from a set blessing) those are two different things o. Hagin was speaking about legalism, preachers using legalism to preach tithing. There is no curse as in a CURSE, the curse there was limiting yourself, that's why I wrote, "you put yourselves under one" not "God will curse you"

Really? You call non tithers robbers, right? Where will a robber end up?

Robbing God has it's penatly here on earth, limiting yourselves from some blessings, He never said it has eternal consequences for robbing him.

Something cannot stand on nothing. There'll not be need for this particular argument but for your claim that you follow Abraham to tithe (but of course rush to Moses via Malachi to ensure compliance utilizing the fear factor).

Convinent answer...that means there are none. Ok

Now prove Abraham paid tithes on any thing apart from spoils of war. Then we can proceed to establishing whether we need anything condemned before we know it doesn't pertain to us.

If it was only wars, how come his grandson had enough knowledge to tithe, noting Jacob didn't fight a war?

I'm gonna say this once...the Jerusalem council DID NOT cancel the out the necessity of circumcision and tithing. What they did was that they decided that Gentile converts to Christianity were not obligated to keep most of the Law of Moses, including the rules concerning circumcision of males.

Now, neither circumcision nor tithing has their inception in the Laws of Moses. And they were not obligated to keep most of the law because certain individuals came down from Judea and were teaching the brothers, "Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved " . The council was prompt to debunk that. Same as I have been schooling you that circumcision NEVER made one righteous. They never as you claimed said tithing and circumcision were not necessary, they said circumcision was not necessary for righteousness. Abraham was declared righteous by faith even before circumcision.

The Council did, however, retain the prohibitions on eating blood, meat containing blood, and meat of animals not properly slain, and on fornication and idolatry, sometimes referred to as the Apostolic Decree orJerusalem Quadrilateral.

As you can see from above, the Law was not completely abolished, a fact mba, Joagbaje me, bidam has been teaching here for ages. Goshen360 the confused grace preacher never seem to comprehend this.

Candour:
@the bold. Hagin, whom you rever so much doesnt agree with you, do you think he's lying?

No, I think you are. Flip 90 pages back, you'd see Hagin quoting Mal 3:8, you doubt?

do you believe non tithers are going to hell?

No I don't.

Can you show one scripture to prove Abraham paid tithe from anything apart from spoils of war?

Ahn ahn bobo, you didn't answer me na.... Condemnation of tithing in its entirety is a nice confession from you, now my question is, "Can you show me one scripture that condemned tithing in the faintest of senses?"

Oblige me. Thanks[/quote]

trustman:
Issues, context, doctrine!
You can't really handle these, can you?
I have thrown you a challenge. I await your response.
I have equally shown you how the Jerusalem Council knocked out the necessity for Christians to either be circumcised or be forced to tithe.
If you're teachable you will learn.

I've clearly asked you not to quote me. Open a thread or go to the WoF thread, tag it F25 and write away your thoughts undisputed. You are full of errors and going into further Jerusalem/council/circumcision will not help your case.

See the teachable one who can learn! My goodness! Did you admit you learnt Abraham was not Isrealite? Of that Ishmael was circumcised, hence your theories were dead and superly carnal from an obsessed mind of a true gospel preacher crew.

Trustman, in simpler English, whenever you own up to your numerous blunder, let me know, then I can take you serious. Learn from Candour, though we don't agree in somethings, we are able to discuss and laugh and have headways. He NEVER make blunder like snakes and eve and Abraham being isrealite type of error.

Candour:
i'm sure you saw etc after that list? the lies are actually inexhaustible and are proclaimed from pulpits everyday, everytime.

of course i've condemned preaching 'paying of tithes' as a christian doctrine in it's entirety.

P/S. Do you think its christian for oyaks, adeboye and robertson to tell those lies just to get folks to tithe?

Good... but we've debated this over and over again. You place yourself under a curse by robbing God, you don't have to start a new gist about that for we have done that ages ago. Never has pastor chris or my pastor forced me to tithe, they taught me, I obeyed, saw marvellous benefits and I continued. Faith was my driving force bro!

Condemnation of tithing in its entirety is a nice confession from you, now my question is, "Can you show me one scripture that condemned tithing in the faintest of senses?"

mbaemeka:
Ha ha ha bro. I tire for the matter. I have encountered him before. He can switch positions like a contortionist and yet maintain that that had been his position all along. For example, can you see how circumcision was for ISRAEL AND ONLY ISRAEL yet Ismael was circumcised? Or how Abraham- a Gentile, was circumcised too? Mayhe Abraham didn't get the memo.

True gospelers!

Abraham sure didn't. True gospel preachers at their best, and he wants me to commit to his teachings? Pheeeeew

mbaemeka:
This is a stand you have to take to make your stance on tithing worth its salt. There is TITHING and there is FREEWILL GIVING. There is no fixed % on the latter but the former means 10% or one-tenth. It basically defines itself.

If anyone wants to tithe he MUST not give less than 10% otherwise it is not a tithe. Whereas if anyone wants to give anything freewillingly then he is free to do so underzero compulsion.

Bro, you dropping these rhema like the Holy Spirit downloaded them into you, but I could not do these for them, for I gravely understood Paul as below.

[KJV] 1 Corinthians 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.

I found out that spiritual talk with them profiteth little, but I'm glad but a bit worried too you still give them in spirit, maybe for posterity sake though. My worries is in the latter part of what bro Paul, in verse 2 of above, wrote I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.

Let's give them in little doses these meat, hence they act as usual, as Paul wrote in veree 3

For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

We know those envious of ministers and call them bad name just to hang them, we know those who spread strife and ask for opinions, ah! We know those who championed divisions among the brethren because they are 'exposing the truth for all' to see.

We will keep teaching, till Jesus come, meat and milk sha. We'd pray tyey accept meat. Amen

mbaemeka:
This is even more Gibberisher than the previous post.

Let me pace myself a bit with you since you are not as quick-witted as I had overestimated you to be.

If I was to tell you instances of Tetraplegics and Palsy sufferers who got healed instantly by the anointing of God, you would have disbelieved them even if I provided videos for you. Secondly, your incredulity is not limited to the Pastor I would have referred you to: it encompasses even many others abroad and ahome (on earth and in heaven for e.g Kenneth Hagin). So it made absolutely no sense for me to honor your questions with the sort of reply you were craving for. Lastly, you made a fallacy of Generalizing Hastily by making it seem like 'ALL' Healing school ministers avoided patients with the conditions above when you have NEVER attended any of the healing schools to corroborate such a statement. The same way you asserted that Christopher Columbus helped prove Galileos discoveries right even when Columbus had died before Galileo was born. I am sure you realise you are a tad too whimsical in your responses and they have always come back to bite you where the sun doesn't shine.

Now, let it be that none of the WOF or WOF related ministers I know have healed anyone suffering from the 2 conditions you mentioned. Let it be that the testimonies they have were all stage-managed. You who believes in Yahweh that heals, can you provide any evidences to back that claim or is it just hot-air (again) ? I.e are you just throwing the I-believe-Yahweh-can-heal-those-things line, even when you don't really believe?

PS: I ignored all your nonsense about verbatim quotes and the likes. You were dishonest enough to refuse to admit your Eve-serpent-sex, Kenneth Hagin-Apostle, Tower of Babel was mythical goof (s) so I don't expect you to take the humble route and keep mum now. And you have the temerity to call someone incorrigible and wallowing in ignorance? Hahahahahahaha!

Amazing the nerves that bloke has, huh?

His fellow board member who sold his honesty and integrity for a morsel of pounded yam has the moral thought to tread same line he is, calling another ignorant and in denial, one wonders whether they discuss these in the board room!

Candour:
i have told u plenty times i'm not interested in stopping you from tithing. you are free to pay 90% of your income as tithe (as some claim to do).see what transpired between you and i some days ago





https://www.nairaland.com/1957135/midas-touch-balanced-approach-biblical/80#28245401


Infact i must have stated the below as my motivation for engaging in these arguments a lot of times (trust you and others wont claim you've not read it in my posts before). my motivation is against the lies below

1. If you don't pay tithe, you're a robber and of course hell bound
2. If you don't pay tithe , you're cursed
3. IF you don't pay tithe, you'll be attacked by devourers like sickness, marital problems, car problems, accidents, business losses etc
4. if you don't pay tithe, you'll not be blessed by God
etc

As long as you don't threaten Christians with the above, go ahead and pay everything you have as tithe. They're yours to do with as you like

My man, your stand is noted, but are you saying you never discoraged giving of tithes oustide the above numbered? In plain terms, are you saying you never condemned paying of tithes in its entirety?

The Holy Spirit—Our Indispensable Helper! - Wednesday, November 26th .

Pastor Chris

And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you forever (John 14:16).

The Holy Spirit is an extraordinary gift to us God’s children (Acts 2:38). He, in the parlance of computer science, is like the “downloader.” It takes the Holy Spirit to “download” heavenly files, and bring heavenly materiality into the human system.

He alone, for example, can help you accept the virgin birth of Jesus Christ, His sacrificial death,triumphant resurrection, and His glorious ascension into heaven. Only the Holy Spirit can convince you that the blood of Jesus Christ was adequate for the salvation of humanity. So when you find that you can understand and accept these spiritual realities, it means the Holy Spirit has unveiled them to you; He’s working in your life.

When Jesus asked His disciples, “Who do men say I am?” only Peter spoke rightly, and said, “Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God” (Matthew 16:16). The Master’s response to Peter was, “…Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven” (Matthew 16:17). Peter wasn’t guessing; he certainly didn’t know this in his head; the knowledge of who Jesus is was imparted tohim by the Holy Spirit. There’re no human parameters that can help you comprehend spiritual realities.

Even in preaching and ministering salvation to others, you must understand that the Gospel that we’ve been given and charged to take to the nations of the world, is a Gospel that can’t be humanly explained and accepted. Consequently, we need the Holy Spirit to minister through us, and to help bring the understanding of the message to those to whom we minister. His help is inevitable in everything we do.

Never find yourself doing anything or building anything by your own natural strength or human wisdom; it'll fail. Psalm 127:1 says, “Except the LORD build the house, they labour in vain that build it....” Perhaps you’re a minister of the Gospel, don’t try to build the Church by your own strength; don’t rely on your natural abilities, for that alone won’t work. Depend on the Holy Spirit. Take advantage of His glorious ministry in your life. He’s in you to help you live the triumphant Christian life and be successful in all that you do, to the glory of the Father. He’s your indispensable Helper!

Prayer...
I thank you Father for filling me with the Holy Spirit, who continually reveals Christ Jesus to me, and grants me insight into mysteries and secrets of the Kingdom. I’m mightily helped by Him today to live triumphantly, in Jesus’ Name. Amen.

Further Study:
Acts 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth. ;

1 Corinthians 2:10-11 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. 11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

John 14:16 AMP And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Comforter (Counselor, Helper, Intercessor, Advocate, Strengthener, and Standby), that He may remain with you forever.

Daily Scripture Reading

1-Year Bible Reading Plan: 1 Peter 5, Ezekiel 35-36
2-Year Bible Reading Plan: Revelation 2:1-12, Hosea 5-6

OLAADEGBU:
So He created another God with a small "g" making you a deity just like Jesus, right?

i am not a deity,but yes,i am not ordinary the moment i got born again.

man is a spirit,he has a soul and lives in a body.. .not man is divided into 3 parts,spirit,soul and body.