₦airaland Forum

pickabeau1:
OK...I can't make it more plain than it is....

I am saying the scriptures quoted and Jesus life showed faith to meet needs was the focus
How did we get to a point where the church is now a place of wealth and commerce and property grab.


Its a two fold question


Do you agree the church is there if yes

Then How?

The church of all places should be a place of wealth, for that's God's body. The bible said the Church is Jesus's bride... if the groom is rich, why should the bride be any different?

pickabeau1:
Rephrased

When did pastors start the wealth race from a point of needs being met

this question is quite vague... make it plain bro

Some give testimony of what God has done but u feel its like a boast

Don't see it as boasting... see it as a chance to challenge your spirit. There was a time Pastor Chris gave out $1 million as offering (168,000,000 NGN)
i did not see it as boasting, i said to my self "one day, i'd give more than that to the Lord" and i set my mind to it. That's my mindset, my mentality.
the other day, he gave a choir leader a brand new SUV, did i get angry? NO... Did i say He's showing off? NO... i said "one day, i'd be giving folks cars too"

simple.

Seun
Mynd44
OAM4J
Mukina2
Obinoscopy
etc

please move this thread to the politics section. Thank you

tuns2s:
I almost challenge it at a point while reading down, but your good summary takes it all...

Thanks bro, it's not my summary though, can't take credit for it- it's a book by Kenneth E. Hagin, you should download it and read

visit here

nora544:
JESUS WAS RICH

The following are some of the reasons people believe Jesus was rich:

The wise men from the East made Jesus wealthy at his birth: The Rev. Creflo Dollar, senior pastor of World Changers Church International in College Park, says the Gospel of Matthew proves that Jesus was the recipient of wealth at his birth.

“In the book of Matthew in Chapter 2, the kings came to him, and they bought him gold, frankincense and myrrh.”

Jesus had so much money that he needed a treasurer: The New Testament describes Judas as the “treasurer” for Jesus’ disciples. “Why would a band of 12 men need a treasurer if they didn’t have some treasures,” says Bishop Johnathan Alvarado of Total Grace Christian Center in Decatur. “You need a treasurer when you have surplus.”

Jesus wore expensive clothes: In the 19th chapter of John’s Gospel, the Roman soldiers who crucified Jesus are depicted gambling for his “seamless” undergarment. Alvarado says Jesus wore garments that were a “nobleman’s garments.” “If his clothes were a poor man’s clothes, why would centurions gamble for it?” Alvarado asks.

In a sermon titled “Jesus Was Not Poor,” published on the Web page of Harvest Church, it is written:

I call your attention to Mark 14:3-7. Jesus is dining in the home of Simon the leper in Bethany when a woman came with an alabaster vial of very costly perfume of pure spikenard and broke the vial and poured the contents over His head. There were some that were indignant and said, “Why has this perfume been wasted? For this perfume might have been sold for over three hundred pence, and the money given to the poor”. Jesus said, “Let her alone; why do you bother her? She has done a good deed to me. For the poor you always have with you , and whenever you wish, you can do them good: but you do not always have Me.” Jesus did not count Himself among the poor because Jesus was not poor! He was not necessarily wealthy (in natural terms) but Jesus Was Not Poor! — The Disciples Were Not Poor!

JESUS WAS POOR

The following are some of the reasons people believe Jesus was poor:

Roman soldiers gambled for the clothes of many condemned criminals.
“It was ordinary for prisoners to be stripped naked and looted by soldiers,” says Sondra Ely Wheeler, an ethicist at Wesley Theological Seminary in Washington, D.C., and author of “Wealth as Peril and Obligation: The New Testament on Possessions” (Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing, $20). Wheeler says the soldiers also were gambling for the robe Herod placed on Jesus to mock him. “I’m sure that was expensive — he got it from Herod.

The text doesn’t say that Judas was a treasurer, only that he held the common purse: Neither the King James nor the New International Version of the Bible calls Judas the “treasurer.” The NIV calls him the “keeper of the money bag,” and the King James says he “had the bag.” Scholars say he held the money not for Jesus but for all the disciples, a common custom of the time for itinerant preachers. “To call Judas a treasurer is like looking at two kids who go to the movies and calling the one who holds the money the treasurer,” Wheeler says.

Jesus did not have a lucrative occupation: Crossan says the Greek word in Matthew for Jesus’ occupation has been translated into carpenter, but a more accurate translation would change the word to a laborer.

Jesus and his disciples were poor, according to archaeological evidence: Eric Meyers, a professor of archaeology at Duke University and editor of the Oxford Encyclopedia of Archaeology in the Near East, says he has personally excavated the village of Nazareth where Jesus lived. He pointed out that the Bible says Jesus was so poor that he couldn’t afford his own tomb for his burial. “There is no way to speak of wealth in that context,” he says. “This is living at the margins of society, eking out an agricultural existence.”

http://claudemariottini.com/2006/10/25/was-jesus-rich-or-poor/

Hello Nora, are you saying Jesus was lived a "destitute, inferior, indigent, needy, impoverished, feeble, pitiful, lacking, insufficient" life. Those terms are all used in defining the meaning of the word "poor."

pickabeau1:
So far so good.. a lot of the same things we know about faith and prosperity

A lot of it has centred on how his needs were met even though he never asked.His and his kids were met and the congregation supplied the needs of the pastor when his ministry started

The exposition on Jesus not poor is ok but a bit long but i can understand what he is trying to do

I will wait for the chap 7 and co..pls notify me however i have some questions

ok..i will notify you

1. The message as it is written so far seems to be for a preacher or man of God. I will like to hear more on how he translated it to the layman
It is easy for a man of God who is loved and has a powerful ministry of signs and wonders to be blessed. This is not limited even to Christianity. The man of God should also want his followers to be blessed as against a focus on self using his spritual authority

sir, it's all same principle....we all copied from Jesus, Paul did, anybody who does is bound to have same result.

2. I will like to highlight the words of the man of God here


The focus from his exposition on Jesus's life shows that Jesus knew his needs will be met.

Jesus knew God was able at all times to supply His needs, that was same sonesis Paul had when he penned it down in Phillipians 4

so he never worried

Ever wondered why He keeps telling us "Do not worry"? Same thought Paul found out and asked us to be careful for NOTHING- Phillipians 4:6

I get that
When did it change from trusting God to meet the needs of men of God and living in that faith to a naked grab for wealth, wealth acquistion and oppression of the laity by these same men

can you please rephrase your above question?

Everytime I go to church, its always a boasting session or the other..God gave a car, land , jet etc

Boasting sessions? Well in my church it isn't so.. if you say testimony session i can comprehend.

3. How can the common man assess this prosperity or is it for the preachers alone

Read that book, or go back to chapter 1 i posted... it gave conditions for prosperity, it applies to all, not just preachers, the book of Isaiah says " if you be willing and obedient... you shall eat the good of the land"

looks to me that condition is open to all, not just preachers alone. [/quote]

We Serve God From Our Spirit · Tuesday, October 21st

Pastor Chris

God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth (John 4:24).

The Bible teaches that man is a spirit; he has a soul and lives in a body. With his spirit, he relates with the spirit-realm, the realm of his actual existence. With his body, he makes contact with the material world, and with his soul he contacts the intellectual realm.

Many people have never understood the difference between the mind and the spirit; they think the mind is the spirit, but they’re not the same. When you were born again, it wasn’t your body or your mind that was born again; it was your spirit. The Bibles says, "...if any man be in Christ, he is a new creation" (2 Corinthians 5:17) it’s your spirit that’s in Christ; that’s the real you; that’s the man that relates with God.

The Lord Jesus said God is a Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship Him in Spirit and in truth. This simply means worshipping God from the heart according to the Word which is truth. We understand the things of God from our spirit. Romans 10:10 says "…with the heart (i.e spirit) man believeth unto righteousness…."

Then based on that relationship, we condition our minds to go in the same direction, and condition our senses to function likewise. So, you’re to control your mind and your senses from your spirit. That means, the character that you express outwardly depends on the condition of your spirit which is your heart.

That’s why we need the Spirit of God to guide us, because only the Holy Spirit can get deep into the human heart to effect the changes that God wants in us: changes from one level of glory to another. The Spirit of God guides our minds to think towards God, think like God, and to think from God. Man can’t do that by himself; it takes the Holy Spirit to help us do that, because our senses were not designed to relate with God; we serve God from our spirit.

Prayer...
Dear Father, I thank you for the power of your mighty presence in my life. My heart and my mind are open to your Word, and I’m yielded to your Spirit to be guided and positioned for excellence and greatness, as I serve you with my spirit in the Gospel of Christ, in Jesus’ Name. Amen.

Further Study:
Romans 1:9; For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers;

John 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

1 year Bible reading plan: 1 Timothy 3:1-16 Jeremiah 9-10
2 year Bible reading plan: Hebrews 10:19-39 Ezekiel 20

nlMediator:
My dear brother, I took a short break from NL - to retain my sanity! Glory to God, I got a few things accomplished in the process. Thanks for noticing my conspicuous absence!!

Really? Sometimes I question my sanity after being with some Nlders, often times it replies me.

Welcome

was Jesus Poor?Chapter 3 is up

pickabeau1, enjoy

[size=20pt]Jesus Distinguished Himself From the Poor[/size]

During a visit to the Bethany home of Lazarus, Martha, and Mary, Jesus said to the guests at the supper, "You will always have the poor among you, but you will not always have me" (John 12:8 NIV). Notice that Jesus didn't call Himself poor. He made a definite distinction between the poor and Himself.

Some people have mistakenly thought that this statement implied that Jesus was saying that helping the poor is unimportant.
However, the Old Testament reference He was quoting strongly indicates that this is not what Jesus meant. Deuteronomy 15:11 says, "There will always be poor people in the land. Therefore I command you to be openhanded toward your brothers and toward the poor and needy in your land" (NIV).

In effect, Jesus was saying, "There will always be poor people who need help, and you should help them as much as you can. But I'm only going to be here a very short time, and this woman [who anointed His feet with expensive ointment] took advantage of a very limited opportunity. You will always have opportunities to help the poor, but I won't be here very much longer."
The point is that not once did Jesus identify Himself as one of the poor. He did not say, "There will always be poor people like Me." Instead, He made a definite distinction between the poor and Himself.

[size=20pt]Expensive Perfume[/size]

We find another scriptural indication that Jesus wasn't poor in the fact that He was not the least bit bothered when perfume worth a year's salary was used to anoint His feet.*** My Jesus sure got swag

Let's examine this story as it is written in Luke's Gospel.

Six days before the Passover, Jesus arrived at Bethany, where Lazarus lived, whom Jesus had raised from the dead. Here a dinner was given in Jesus' honor. Martha served, while Lazarus was among those reclining at the table with him. Then Mary took about a pint of pure nard, an expensive perfume; she poured it on Jesus' feet and wiped his feet with her hair. And the house was filled with the fragrance of the perfume. But one of his disciples, Judas Iscariot, who was later to betray him, objected, "Why wasn't this perfume sold and the money given to the poor? IT WAS WORTH A YEAR'S WAGES." He did not say this because he cared about the
poor but because he was a thief; as keeper of the money bag, he used to help himself to what was put into it.
"Leave her alone," Jesus replied. "It was intended that she should save this perfume for the day of my burial. You will always have the poor among you, but you will not always have me."
—John 12:1-8 (NIV)

A poor man, not used to having anything, more than likely would not have had a relaxed attitude to a "year's salary" being poured over his feet. But Jesus was not intimidated, concerned, or uncomfortable in the slightest about the value of the perfume Mary used to anoint His feet. How could this be?

[size=20pt]Consider Who Jesus Really Was[/size]!

Jesus was—and is—the Creator of the universe and of this world! The Gospel of John declares, "All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made" (1:3).
Colossians 1:16 proclaims, "For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him."
Now consider Jesus' real home, the place He created for Himself and, eventually, for us to dwell in. Remember, everyone endeavors to make his own home a place that is suited to his own tastes, a place where it is comfortable for him to live. Jesus' home was described for us in the Book of Revelation.

. . . the Holy City, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God. It shone with the glory of God, and its brilliance was like that of a very precious jewel, like a jasper, clear as crystal. It had a great, high wall with twelve gates. . . . The wall was made of jasper, and the city of pure gold, as pure as glass. The foundations of the city walls were decorated with every kind of precious . stone. . . . The twelve gates were twelve pearls, each gate made of a single pearl. The great street of the city was of pure gold, like transparent glass.
—Revelation 21:10-12,18,19,21 (NIV)

Who could design and create such a magnificent dwelling place? Psalm 24:10 gives us the answer: "Who is this King of glory? The Lord of hosts, he is the King of glory."
Let's look at some Bible passages that help us catch a glimpse of the majesty and power of God. (And remember, if these things were said of God, they also pertain to Jesus. John 10:30 says, "I [Jesus] and my Father are one," and John 14:9 says, ". . .he that hath seen me hath seen the Father. . . ."

Melchizedek referred to God as

". . . the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth."
—Genesis 14:19

Moses said that

" . . . the earth is the Lord's."

—Exodus 9:29

Joshua said God is

"Lord of all the earth."


—Joshua 3:11


King David said,

"Yours, O Lord, is the greatness and the power and the glory and the majesty and the splendor, for everything in heaven and earth is yours. Yours, O Lord, is the kingdom; you are exalted as head over all. Wealth and honor come from you; you are the ruler of all things. In your hands are strength and power to exalt and give strength to all."
—1 Chronicles 29:11,12 (NIV)

God, speaking about Himself to Job, said, "Who has a claim against me that I must pay? Everything under heaven belongs to me."
—Job 41:11 (NIV)

The Psalmist David declared,
"The earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof; the world, and they that dwell therein."
—Psalm 24:1

David also said,

" . . . the earth is full of thy riches."
—Psalm 104:24

God said of Himself,

"For every beast of the forest is mine, and the cattle upon
a thousand hills. I know all the fowls of the mountains:
and the wild beasts of the field are mine. If I were hungry,
I would not tell thee: for the world is mine, and the fulness thereof."
—Psalm 50:1042

God said to Isaiah,

" . . . The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool."
—Isaiah 66:1

Through Haggai, God said,

"The silver is mine, and the gold is mine, saith the Lord of hosts."
—Haggai 2:8

Zechariah referred to God as the

"Lord of the whole earth."


—Zechariah 4:14;6:5

Paul said twice in First Corinthians 10,

". . . the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof."
—1 Corinthians 10:26,28

Writing in Philippians, Paul said that Jesus,

"... being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."
—Philippians 2:6-11

Jesus was with the Father at the dawn of creation and lived in Heaven with the Father and the angels. Revelation 21:21 says that the streets of Heaven are pure gold. Gold to Jesus is what asphalt is to us!
Jesus created this world with all its gold, silver, diamonds, rubies, sapphires, and every kind of natural resource. The cattle upon a thousand hills are His. He created it all. No wonder He wasn't the least bit bothered by a little perfume being poured upon His feet.


[size=20pt]Jesus Never Lacked[/size]

At the end of Jesus' earthly ministry, His own disciples testified that they never lacked anything.

Then Jesus asked them, "When I sent you without purse, bag or sandals, did you lack anything?" "Nothing," they answered.
—Luke 22:35 (NIV)

If the disciples testified that they had experienced no lack as they carried out their ministry assignments, we can assume that they had a full supply and abundant provision. At the very least, they had enough—an adequate supply for their needs. And that's not poor!


[size=20pt]Jesus Wore Nice Clothes[/size]

When Jesus was crucified, His clothes were nice enough that the soldiers divided them among themselves and gambled for His coat.

Then the soldiers, when they had crucified Jesus, took his garments, and made four parts, to every soldier a part; and also his coat: now the coat was without seam, woven from the top throughout. They said therefore among themselves, Let us not rend it, but cast lots for it, whose
it shall be: that the scripture might be fulfilled, which saith, They parted my raiment among them, and for my vesture they did cast lots. These things therefore the soldiers did.
—John 19:23,24

Would Roman soldiers cast lots for the tattered and torn rags of a beggar or the shabby, worn clothes of a poor man? No, of course not.


[size=20pt]Was Jesus Poor or Prosperous?[/size]

Let's go back to our original question. I believe the Bible addresses this issue in detail and offers a clear and compelling answer. Based on the verses we have examined in this chapter, do you think Jesus fits the definition of the word "poor"? In other words, do you think Jesus was indigent, impoverished, needy, wanting in material goods, destitute, feeble, dejected, worthy of pity or sympathy, inferior, pitiful, second-class, second-rate, lacking, or insufficient?

On the other hand, consider the definition of the word "prosperous"—marked by success or economic well-being, enjoying vigorous and healthy growth, flourishing, successful, robust, progressing, favorable.
Which definition best describes the biblical Jesus? Let's review the information about Jesus we discovered in God's Word:

1. As a child, Jesus received gifts of gold, frankincense, and myrrh.
2. Jesus had many partners who faithfully and consistently supported His ministry financially.
3. The Bible indicates that Jesus had a house or a residence.
4. When it was necessary, God's miraculous power operated through Jesus to see that His needs and the needs of others were met.
5. The Bible indicates that Jesus' ministry assisted the poor financially on a regular basis.
6. Jesus had a treasurer who regularly embezzled money from the funds entrusted to him.
7. Jesus distinguished Himself from the poor. Jesus was not the least bit bothered when perfume worth a year's salary was used to anoint His feet.
8. The testimony of Jesus' own disciples at the end of His earthly ministry was that they never lacked anything.
9. When Jesus was crucified, His clothes were nice enough that the soldiers gambled for them.


I believe these scriptural facts are compelling proof that Jesus was not poor, but was a prosperous man. Now I am not suggesting that He lived a lavish or extravagant lifestyle—that would not have been practical for Him. But Jesus had His needs met during His life on earth, and He was able to do what God asked Him to do.

Jesus' prosperity should not surprise us. The Old Covenant promised prosperity to those who walked in the will of God (see Deuteronomy 29:9; Joshua 1:7; 1 Kings 2:3; 1 Chronicles 22:13; 2 Chronicles 20:20 and 26:5; Job 36:11; Nehemiah 1:11, and Psalm 1:1-3).

Do you think that Jesus met the qualification of walking in God's will? Of course, He did. He declared in John 6:38, "For I came down from heaven, not to do Mine own will, but the will of Him that sent me."
Do you think that the Father kept His Word and blessed Jesus because He walked in the Father's will? Absolutely! Numbers 23:19 says, "God is not a man, that he should lie . . . hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make
it good?"

[size=13pt]Jesus was not poor. He walked in prosperity according to the Abrahamic Covenant.[/size]

[size=20pt]WAS JESUS POOR?[/size]

One of the arguments used by those who oppose the idea of material prosperity for Christians is that Jesus was poor during the time He lived on earth. They say He lived an impoverished life from the time He was born in a stable and laid in a manger bed, throughout His ministry when He had no home, until He was crucified and buried in a borrowed tomb.

The idea of Jesus' poverty has been repeated so often and passed down for so long that most people never stop to question
it and see if it is scripturally valid. But that does not make it right. In fact, I believe that this commonly accepted teaching is totally contrary to the clear teaching of Scripture.
The truth is that in no way did Jesus live a "destitute, inferior, indigent, needy, impoverished, feeble, pitiful, lacking, insufficient" life. Those terms are all used in defining the meaning of the word "poor."
Yes, on the night Jesus was born, Joseph and Mary had to take shelter in a stable. They wrapped Jesus in swaddling clothes and laid Him in a manger. But nowhere in the Gospel accounts does it say they were in the stable because they didn't have enough money to rent a room.

At that particular time, so many people had converged on the little town of Bethlehem for the tax census decreed by the Roman emperor, Caesar Augustus, that there was no room in the inn. In other words, by the time Joseph and Mary arrived, every motel had a No Vacancy sign posted. So not having a room in overcrowded Bethlehem was certainly no indication of poverty.
Next, let's look at the two primary scriptures used to substantiate the idea that Jesus was poor.

And Jesus said unto him, Foxes have holes, and birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head.
—Luke 9:58

For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sokes he became poor, that ye through his poverty might be rich.
—2 Corinthians 8:9

The verse in Luke is often interpreted to mean that Jesus lived such an impoverished life that He never owned a home or had a place to stay after He began His earthly ministry. We'll take a closer look at the true meaning of this verse a little later in this chapter.

[size=20pt]When Did Jesus Become Poor?[/size]

The passage in Second Corinthians undeniably declares that Jesus became poor and experienced poverty. But when? Was it during His entire earthly life? During His years of ministry? Exactly when did Jesus become poor?


I suggest to you that Jesus was not a poor man during the thirty-three years of His earthly life, including the three years of His earthly ministry. He was made poor upon the Cross when He became our Substitute and paid the penalty and price for our sin.
Isaiah 53, the great substitutionary chapter of the Bible, speaks of how Jesus bore our sins and everything connected to them. Jesus took upon Himself what belonged to us so that we could receive what belongs to Him.

Surely he hath borne our GRIEFS [the word translated "griefs" is the Hebrew word "choli," which means diseases], and carried our SORROWS [this is the Hebrew word "makob," which means pains]: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the CHASTISEMENT OF OUR PEACE was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. AH we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. . . . Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief [The Amplified Bible says, "He has put Him to grief and made Him sick"]: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.
—Isaiah 53:4-6,10

The word translated "peace" in verse 5 is the Hebrew word "shalom," which has the following meanings and connotations: safe, well, happy, welfare, health, prosperity, and rest. In other words, this passage tells us that God allowed Jesus to bear our sins and sicknesses so that by His stripes, we could have healing, peace, safety, wellness, happiness, rest, and prosperity.
There are other important "substitutionary" verses to consider.

For he [God] hath made him [Jesus] to be SIN for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the RIGHTEOUSNESS of God in him.
—2 Corinthians 5:21

Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made A CURSE for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: that THE BLESSING of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
—Galatians 3:13,14

At Calvary, Christ took on sickness to provide us health. He was made sin so we could be made the righteousness of God. He was made a curse so we could receive the blessing.
Let's look again at Second Corinthians 8:9. "For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sokes he became POOR, that ye through his POVERTY might be RICH."

We see that by His sacrifice on the Cross, Jesus took our poverty to provide us the riches of His grace. He became poor that we might be rich, which means abundant provision!
When did Jesus take on sin, sickness, the curse, and poverty? On the Cross! He did this so we could receive health, righteousness, blessing, and prosperity. He took the punishment that belonged to us so that we could receive the blessings that belong to Him.
The reason I am so certain this is what the Scriptures are saying is because the Gospels, when properly examined and rightly divided, do not portray Jesus as a poverty-stricken individual. On the contrary, Jesus is seen as a Man whose needs were met and who was regularly involved in meeting the needs of others.

[size=20pt]Gifts of Treasure[/size]

Let's start at the very beginning of Jesus' life. As a very young child, Jesus received some very costly and valuable gifts from the wise men, or magi, who traveled from Persia to find and worship the newborn "King of the Jews" whose star they had seen in the east. The Gospel account makes it clear that the gifts they brought to present to Jesus were not just cheap trinkets.

And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had OPENED THEIR TREASURES, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense, and myrrh.
—Matthew 2:11

Other translations of the same verse confirm that the wise men brought rich and valuable gifts. The Williams translation refers to their "treasure sacks," and The Amplified Bible says
"treasure bags." The Modern Language translation says "treasure chests," The Twentieth Century New Testament says "treasures," while the Knox translation renders it "store of treasures."

Herod the king, whom the Roman authorities had allowed to be the local Jewish ruler, became very jealous and suspicious of the infant King who possibly one day would dethrone him. So he ordered the slaughter of all the male children in the region of Bethlehem who were two years old or younger.
Being warned by an angel in a dream, Joseph took Mary and the baby Jesus and fled by night, making the long trek into Egypt. So it is possible—even probable—that the "prosperity" of the wise men's gifts assisted Jesus' family in the move to Egypt and perhaps sustained them all the months they were there.

[size=20pt]Jesus Had Ministry Partners[/size]*** WinsomeX, Shedemidemi, PastorKun, Nora544 etc... take notes please***

When Jesus launched His public ministry, He called twelve disciples to travel with Him. For three years, He and His little band traveled all over Palestine, throughout the region of Galilee, down the Jordan River to the hills of Judaea, and up to Jerusalem.
Even in those days, when travel meant walking or riding an animal, sometimes sleeping under the open skies or seeking shelter in the homes of friends, keeping that many people on the road must have involved considerable expense. Food and clothing for a dozen or more people, day after day, week after week, required that Jesus have enough funds to pay their way.
Where did the money come from? The Bible tells us that Jesus had ministry partners who helped provide His support.

And it came to pass afterward, that he went throughout every city and village, preaching and shewing the glad tidings of the kingdom of God: and the twelve were with him, and certain women, which had been healed of evil spirits and infirmities, Mary called Magdalene, out of whom went seven devils, and Joanna the wife of Chuza Herod's steward, and Susanna, and MANY OTHERS, WHICH MINISTERED UNTO HIM OF THEIR SUBSTANCE.
—Luke 8:1-3

Notice how verse 3 reads in some other translations.

The Wuest version says, ". . . and others, many of them, who were of such a nature that THEY KEPT ON SUPPLYING THEM with food and the other necessities of life out of their possessions." The Williams translation renders the verse, ". . . and many other women, who CONTINUED TO CONTRIBUTE TO THEIR NEEDS out of their personal means." The Phillips translation says, " . . . and many others who USED TO LOOK AFTER HIS [JESUS'] COMFORT from their own resources."


Does this sound like Jesus and His disciples were poor and destitute, a traveling band of beggars who lived off the land, hand-to-mouth? Absolutely not. Their needs were met through the generosity of many partners who faithfully and consistently supported Jesus' ministry financially.

[size=20pt]Was Jesus Homeless?[/size]

Contrary to traditional thinking, Jesus did have a place of residence. The passage most often cited by people in an attempt to prove that Jesus never owned a home or had a residence is found in Luke chapter 9. Let's read all the related verses in context.

As the time approached for him to be taken up to heaven, Jesus resolutely set out for Jerusalem. And he sent messengers on ahead, who went into a Samaritan village to get things ready for him; but the people there did not welcome him, because he was heading for Jerusalem. When the disciples James and John saw this, they asked,
"Lord, do you want us to call fire down from heaven to destroy them?" But Jesus turned and rebuked them, and they went to another village. As they were walking along the road, a man said to him, "I will follow you wherever you go." Jesus replied, "Foxes have holes and birds of the air have nests, but the Son of Man has no place to lay his head."
—Luke 9:51-58 (MV)

Reading in context, we learn that in verse 58 Jesus was simply saying, "At this time in My life, I am on the move. I'm going forward on My way to fulfill My mission. I'm not settling down on this earth, but I'm on My way to be taken up to Heaven."
Notice that there are other scriptures that seem to indicate that Jesus did have an earthly home or residence.

When Jesus heard that John had been put in prison, he returned to Galilee. Leaving Nazareth, he went and lived in Capernaum, which was by the lake in the area of Zebulun and Naphtali. . . .
—Matthew 4:12,13 (NIV)

The Williams translation of verse 13 says, "But he left Nazareth and made His home in Capernaum. . . ." Wuest renders the same verse, "And having abandoned Nazareth . . . He established His permanent home in Capernaum. . . ."
Now look at Matthew 9:1. It says, "Jesus stepped into a boat, crossed over and came to his own town" (NIV).
Williams translates this verse, "And He got into a boat and crossed to the other side, and went into His home town." The Wuest version says, "And having gone on board the boat, he crossed over and entered his own city."
How does someone have his "own town," his "home town," and his "own city" unless he lives there? And how does he live there unless he has a place to live?

Mark 2:1 is also very interesting. It reads, "A few days later, when Jesus again entered Capernaum, the people heard that he had come home" (NIV).
In the Williams version, the verse reads, "After some days He came back to Capernaum, and it was reported that He was at home." Wuest's translation says, "And having again entered Capernaum, after some days He was heard of as being at home."
Jesus couldn't "come home" or be reported as being "at home" if He didn't have a home.
The argument that Jesus didn't have a home cannot be used as proof of the poverty of Jesus because Scripture indicates that Jesus did indeed have a home.

[size=20pt]Fishing for Gold[/size]

There are other scriptural indications that Jesus didn't live a poverty-stricken life. For example, when it was necessary, God's miracle power operated through Jesus to meet His needs and the material needs of others.

When they came to Capemaum, the collectors of the half- shekel tax went up to Peter and said, "Does not your teacher pay the tax?" He said, "Yes." And when he came home, Jesus spoke to him first, saying, "What do you think, Simon? From whom do kings of the earth take toll or tribute? From their sons or from others?" And when he said, "From others," Jesus said to him, "Then the sons are free. However, not to give offense to them, go to the sea and cast a hook, and take the first fish that comes up, and when you open its mouth you will find a shekel; take that and give it to them for me and for yourself."
—Matthew 17:24-27 (RSV)

Two other passages in Matthew also illustrate God's miracle- working power to provide for people's material needs. Matthew
14:15-21 tells the story of the feeding of the five thousand men with five loaves and two fish. Matthew 15:32-39 relates the story of the feeding of four thousand men with seven loaves and a few fish.
During His ministry on the earth, time and again Jesus demonstrated that the resources necessary to meet every need were available to Him.

[size=20pt]Assisting the Poor[/size]

Another reason I believe Jesus was prosperous is that the Bible indicates that Jesus' ministry assisted the poor financially on a regular basis.
The Apostle John's account of the Last Supper is one of the most powerful and moving passages in the New Testament, filled with important and significant events. John chapter 13 tells about Jesus washing the feet of His disciples, foretelling His betrayal, giving the new commandment to love one another, and warning Peter of his imminent denial of the Lord.

But people sometimes overlook three very important verses regarding Judas that emphasize the fact that Jesus' ministry had sufficient means to assist the poor financially—apparently on a regular basis.
When Satan entered into Judas and put it into his heart to betray Jesus, he got up from the supper to go out. John 13 records the story.

. . . Then said Jesus unto him [Judas], That thou doest, do quickly. Now no man at the table knew for what intent he spake this unto him. For some of them thought, because Judas had the bag, that Jesus had said unto him, BUY THOSE THINGS THAT WE HAVE NEED OF AGAINST THE FEAST; OR, THAT HE SHOULD GIVE SOMETHING TO THE POOR.
—John 13:27-29

Why would the other disciples have thought Judas was going to buy something or give money to the poor unless that was something he had been sent to do before, or perhaps was in the habit of doing on a regular basis? Obviously, neither of these possible actions seemed unusual or noteworthy to the eleven, probably indicating that they had seen both things occur with some frequency in the past.
Buying provisions for a feast and giving to the poor were apparently ordinary events to the disciples. And a person can't do either of these without having money.

[size=20pt]Judas the Treasurer[/size]

We know Jesus had some money at least, because He had a treasurer who regularly embezzled money from the funds entrusted to his keeping.
John 12:6 says, ". . .As keeper of the money bag, he [Judas] used to help himself to what was put into it" (NIV).
The Williams translation of John 12:6 reads, ". . . as the carrier of the purse for the Twelve he was in the habit of taking what was put into it."
I believe it is reasonable to assume that poor, penniless, destitute people don't have a treasurer or designated person to carry their money around. Jesus and the disciples had enough funds that they put someone in charge of handling them.

Also, the Gospel account suggests there were enough funds in the treasury that Judas could steal some from time to time without it being immediately noticed. A treasurer couldn't regularly embezzle money from the bag unless there was a continual supply of money going into it. If there was enough money in the bag for Judas to embezzle on a regular basis and still have enough to sustain the group, Jesus could not have been poor.

Ok...I'm putting up chapter 3 - Was Jesus poor?

nlMediator:
That has been the cornerstone of Hagin's and Kenyon's ministry - even before anybody on this thread was born! I can quote from several of his books - way before Midas Touch - where he says that our emphasis is on the NT. In fact, he and especially Kenyon are so Pauline you'd think some of our friends here are his disciples.

Thanks for the input...where on earth have you been all the while?

nlMediator:
@ Op: Good job.

It is outright nonsense to bring Jim Bakker into this discussion.

1. Jim Bakker is not part of WOF. I know some people around here out of ignorance or mischief link Bakker with WOF. It makes it difficult to have an intelligent discussion when people don't even know the basics of what they're discussing. Instead, they're busy hi-fiving themselves when they're writing erroneous stuff.

2. It is preposterous to assume that Hagin read Jim Bakker's book. A more reasonable assumption is that he did not even know of the book. In my WOF church in 1999, the pastor never mentioned Bakker, to my recollection. I don't know any WOF rank and file members that care about what Bakker says or read his materials. Yet, he influenced Hagin! What a joke.


3. Even though Hagin's book came out in 2000, the teachings in that book did not start that year. And the things he preached against are things he knew about and did not endorse all these while. Puttingit in the book, at great risk that his disciples would desert him derves commendation, not condemnation.

Don't mind Nora and her frequent delusions. Thanks for bringing the tesimony of the real thing as caleb and Joshua, hence invalidating the claims of the 10spies

Image123:
Anyone that listens to Hagin knows that he sayS this often. It didn't mistakenly drop, neither is it a correction made before dying. He quotes the new testament off hand for a large part, and he usually describes how his new testament portion of his bible is more worn, and how they are the letters written to him. Nothing new or shocking.
demisquare on the other hand will eternally make excuses about how Hebrews is not for him, how Romans was written to Jews in Rome and similar balderdash.

Exactly

pickabeau1:
bro..im no maam

Aii bro!

Candour:
Its all good then




You misunderstand plenty of my friends. I don't know any of them that preaches against giving to the body of Christ. The issue has always been about scaring, cajoling, threatening and manipulating people into giving by invoking scripture especially the old testament which Hagin confidently says ".....wasn't written to me"

I hope I have! Anyway, let's stick to the book! ...For now

pickabeau1:
please let us know when u upload the remaining chapters

Sure will ma'am. 5pm GMT+1

Cheers

Candour:
In fact, see one part on page 172. I wonder if Hagin copied this from shdemidemi or vice versa. See the portion in bold

"The Old Testament was all the Bible there was for centuries. It was the Bible Jesus quoted from in His ministry. The Old Testament is valuable to me because it teaches me about God, the early history of the world, and how God dealt with His chosen people, the Jews. It contains the Law and the Prophets, the Psalms and Proverbs. I appreciate the Old Testament and benefit from it, but it was not written to me"

I wonder how many times shdemidemi has been crucified for saying the part in bold

Boss chill, I'd get to that place. I benefit from the OT too Romans 15:4, but it was not written to me, the NT was written to the New creation under the new covenant. Now, let's not derail.

Shedemidemi crucified for saying that? Pull out a thread as proof please. I need see what he wrote

BabaGnoni:
Easy tiger, I don't think you'll be able to quote anyone not liking the book or find anyone not liking the book
Let me help out here....
What some are doubting is the genuineness, the sincerety, the truthfulness - the real reason for doing the book
Why didn't he rubbish or condemn his misleading books such as "You Can Have What You Say!" or "How to Write Your Own Ticket With God" etcetera
Some are saying that something smells iffy, just doesn't add up and that it is damage limitation, hence the glaring out-of-character nature of the book

You guys always have doubts even where there is no reason to. Keep looking for motive

Candour:
Gombs my friend, its very obvious you've not read that book to the end. If you have, I doubt you'll be so optimistic and this fired up.

Pls don't skip any chapter o. Like pickabeau1 said up there, the book tries to balance itself. The first chapters 'seem' to help your case but the end isn't as friendly. The intro about King Midas is an idea of what the book is about.

Any Christian who discourages giving in a gathering of the body of Christ is wicked and doesn't know God. This should answer your accusation about folks who are against giving to God

My man, I have read the book, not to the end, but it keeps getting better. Can't wait to reach the end. In fact, I have endorsed the book, recommending it. I have no regrets.

God bless you for the above bold. Always knew you Are different even in the midst of our differences

BabaGnoni:
You don't even know the half of it. If you only knew...
If you only knew the half, then this "Meeehn..." opinion about the book and the whole matter would probably be different.
Like shdemidemi, I too, "I go dey looku and dey laffu-baba70"

PS: Hint "monkey dey work, baboon dey chop"

If you are not going to discuss the book, you better keep shut, keep looking and laughing. I checked alexa.com, and the download site has got some traffic. It moved up almost 650, 000 places. I guess folks are downloading. You and your band do not like the book, because it encourages giving (wonder why you lot hates the idea of giving in church...ah! Folks should take to the poor only shey?) and what pains you all is that he mentioned tithing and he did not encourage ministers of the gospel to be uncared for, nor was he against their prosperity.

You lot find all his backing in the Bible, yet, you must hate. If he hadn't mentioned the above, you lot would use sentences like...it's better imagined sef. Now he did, and the new story is that he was afraid after Bakker was released, hence he wrote the book....bla bla bla.

pickabeau1:
If the intro about the legend of Midas is a metaphor, he is advocating balance in material things
So his first chapters are just saying hey.. nothing wrong with prosperity.. what i expect is now how can one ensure he does not lose focus


He is advoc

what's advoc?

i can assure you, he didn't loose focus

pickabeau1:
Well.. hes still trying to set up the foundation that God does not hate prosperity
Lets see what the later chapters hold

You'd so love it...i am stll ruminating on chapter 2!

Kenny4yfe and Lambanopeace... una fit borrow me space? or, maybe i'd skip some chapters... Meeehn, God bless Hagin!

pickabeau1:
following... read the 3 chapters already

waiting for d next batch

Exhilarating, right?

Image123:
Stories certainly for the gods. Tell Gnoni, drumb and their pals this rubbish already. #Hypocrisy.

legendary hypocrisy i tell ya!

nora544:
You should also know why Kenneth Hagn write this book 2000.

In 1996 a book come out from a prosperity praecher Jim Bakker after he could left the jail.



who was in jail because he lose all what he had because the American govermet found out that he was a fraudster abd he has a debit of 6 Million USD what he had to pay back. The name of this Pastors is Baker, he had an imperium Like Oyedeop and Adeboye, so Kenneth Hagin had the fear that the american followers of the prosperity gospel could leave the church and follower this new doctrin.

Sharaaap already! Quit trolling and start making sense.

your writing is as terrible as any could be, then the senseless write ups makes it the more nauseous. If Hagin was afraid the American followers...Dammit! i can't even make sense from the above underlined.

Bakker left jail 1996, Hagin released a book around 2000, the American Government agency against fraud must have been blind all those years to Hagin's 68years as a minister and never found him wanting. Yet a bitter Austrian lady in her thirties, who has access to only wikipedia and nairaland thinks Hagin was afraid, hence he wrote a book to do what exactly?

Nora , bitte nutzen Sie die Sprache können Sie schreiben in , müssen Sie nicht das Lesen schwierig für mich. dank

reserved

[size=20pt]Extreme Emphases[/size]

In the past we have seen extreme emphases in many different areas of doctrine. Let's look at a few of these and then examine both the positive purposes and the dangers regarding extreme emphases.

[size=16pt]We have seen an extreme emphasis in the faith movement. [/size]
Some people have thought [/b]all believers should throw away their medicine and refuse to go to a doctor, cancel all their insurance policies, quit their jobs to "live by faith," and never borrow money under any circumstances.

[b][size=16pt]We have seen an extreme emphasis on the move of the Holy Ghost. [/size]
Some people have thought they were never supposed to have any kind of service other than a Holy Ghost meeting with people laughing and rolling on the floor every time they came to church.
***Really?? ***

Others have thought every minister was supposed to be holding Holy Ghost meetings all the time.

[size=16pt]We have seen an extreme emphasis on teaching that prosperity— especially material prosperity—is for Christians. [/size]Some have come to believe that demonstrating prosperity involves displaying a lavish, ostentatious lifestyle rather than being good stewards and efficiently harnessing abundant resources to promote the Gospel and to minister the goodness of God to all who are in need.

However, an extreme emphasis alone is not what causes problems. Sometimes an extreme emphasis is necessary to shock and awaken a sleeping, lethargic, and apathetic church to recognize a neglected truth that is necessary for progress to be made.
Often an extreme emphasis involves people in one ditch trying to pull another group of people out of the ditch on the other side of the road. [/u
]
An extreme emphasis then, simply excites people and stirs them up about a general truth that has been neglected or ignored. An extreme emphasis should get our attention. But then we need wisdom to make a productive and fruitful application of that general truth.
The problem is created when there is an extreme application made of what has been emphasized. In other words, people have failed to make a balanced application of what has been heavily emphasized. They have failed to integrate that truth into the rest of God's Word. The whole counsel of God's Word is what will keep us in balance.

So how does a minister integrate a certain truth that the Holy Spirit is emphasizing into the whole of the Word of God? I believe the answer is, by consciously presenting a balanced view of the subject, searching out as many scriptural foundation stones as possible, not just teaching on an isolated verse.

Even if ministers or students of the Word focus on a particular truth, it is still important to include other subjects in their spiritual diet. Just because a child prefers dessert, the wise parent does not fail to also put bread, meat, and vegetables on his plate.
I have followed a rule of thumb that has served me well in presenting the whole counsel of God's Word. [u] If the Bible gives a subject a lot of emphasis, with many verses in different books of the Bible, I've tried to emphasize that subject in my preaching and teaching. If the Bible says very little about another subject, I've made it a point not to place an extreme amount of emphasis on that subject or to be overly dogmatic concerning it.

[size=20pt]Don't Abandon Practical Wisdom and Common Sense[/size]

Not only should we as Christians apply biblical teaching and spiritual principles in our day-to-day living, but we also must not abandon practical wisdom and common sense. There must be balance in this part of our lives as well.
The faith walk does not ignore the natural laws of the universe, which actually are God's laws. As a rule, God does not supernaturally perform what we have the power to do for ourselves. Most people discover that only after they have done all they know and have the power to do does God step in and do what only He can do.

For example, there is no question that God can miraculously heal our human bodies. I personally was raised up from my deathbed and made completely whole. Over the years, I have seen many people healed of everything from headaches to cancers.
Just because God can and does heal doesn't mean that we shouldn't use common sense in taking care of our bodies, eating the right foods, exercising, working in a reasonable way, and getting proper rest. Nor should a person with a disease stop his medical treatment and abandon all reason and common sense. It would be folly, not faith, for a person with diabetes to keep eating large quantities of starchy, sugary foods, saying that he was trusting God to heal him.

In the same sense, it would be ridiculous for people to try to "look prosperous" by buying all kinds of luxurious items and charging them to credit cards that already have payments they can't afford. "I believe God is going to provide the money to pay off my debts somehow, some way," they say. "I'm expecting a miracle blessing. Maybe He'll help me to win the lottery!"


Obviously these people's expectations are based on mistaken understandings and wrong motives. There is no balance between faith and reality in their lives. With so little wisdom and spiritual discernment to draw upon, these people are easily deceived and led further astray by misguided or unscrupulous religious promoters.

[size=20pt]Is Prosperity Tied Solely to Giving?[/size]


In teaching prosperity, too many preachers seem to communicate the idea that receiving financial abundance is totally and exclusively tied to one thing—giving...usually to them! Don't misunderstand me. I believe in giving. I believe that giving is important. But it is not the only key to prosperity.

My son, Rev. Kenneth Hagin Jr., is pastor of RHEMA Bible Church in Broken Arrow, Oklahoma. From time to time, he preaches about prosperity to his congregation, which includes a large number of young people, many of them students at RHEMA Bible Training Center. Ken includes a lot of scriptures from the Word of God that define prosperity and show that it is definitely included in God's will for His people today.

As part of the Bible lesson, Ken teaches about tithing and giving as vital elements of biblical prosperity.
He also stresses that knowing and doing what the Bible says has a direct relationship to our prosperity.
Joshua 1:8 declares, "This book of the law [the Word of God] shall not depart out of thy mouth; hut thou shalt meditate therein day and night, that thou mayest observe to do according to all that is written therein: for then thou shalt make thy way prosperous, and then thou shalt have good success."
You see, the Bible doesn't just speak about God prospering us. The Bible also speaks of us making our own way prosperous. That's why Ken doesn't deal with just the spiritual aspect of prosperity. He also encourages young people to identify their skills and interests and to then seek God as to how He might be leading them vocationally. They should get the best education they possibly can and gain a broad range of knowledge about the world they live in. He advises adults who would like to advance on their jobs to take classes and get extra training.


Ken also teaches people to work hard and to be diligent in performing their duties on their jobs. In most cases, workers who take an interest in their work and do a good job are recognized and rewarded for what they do. It's true that we should trust in God as our Source rather than placing all our confidence in a job or the economy. But that doesn't mean that financial prosperity
is totally unrelated to a person's occupation.

While God can channel blessings to us from many sources, much of the time He uses our job as the primary channel. Typically, there is a direct relationship between one's personal financial prosperity and the amount of responsibility he or she takes on at work. Folks who work harder and in more specialized, skilled fields—those whose abilities ate in greater demand—receive a greater financial reward.

Paul told the Thessalonians, ". . . work with your own hands, as we commanded you; That ye may walk honestly toward them that are without, and that ye may have lack of nothing (1 Thess. 4:11,12).
He also declared, "And whatsoever ye do, do it heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men" (Col. 3:23).


Another important lesson Ken teaches his congregation is the importance of good associations. You can't stay around people who are filled with doubt and unbelief without doubt and unbelief nibbing off on you. You can't be with people who are critical and complaining all the time without being affected. You can't associate with people who lie and cheat without being tempted to compromise your own moral character. Back in the days when people burned wood or coal in stoves, there was an old saying, "You can't handle a stove pipe without getting your hands dirty."


[b][size=20pt]The Whole Counsel of God's Word[/size]

I believe pastors and teachers have a responsibility to teach the full Word of God, not just one part. All of the things Ken includes as part of his teaching on prosperity help bring a balance to the subject that isn't obtained by just talking about giving.

Some people become religiously imbalanced, stressing and practicing only certain truths and neglecting or ignoring others. Sooner than later, we need to learn that the Bible doesn't teach a lopsided, imbalanced message regarding prosperity. There is much more to the message than constantly saying, "If you want to be prosperous, give! If you want to be prosperous, give! If you want to be prosperous, give!"
Ministers who do this are not teaching the whole counsel of God. In my personal opinion, they do an injustice to the Word of God by emphasizing just one side of the issue. They give understandable grounds to those who charge that their motive is to get people to give to them. Is it possible that their full confidence is not in the promises of the Word and they feel they have to "help" God, constantly trying to raise money by asking for it from others?

Another crucially important issue is that ministers should never suggest or lead people to believe that prosperity means conspicuous, lavish wealth. It simply is not true that everyone who has faith for prosperity will live in a palace, drive a luxurious car, and dress in expensive, designer-label clothes.
Prosperity is relative. For some people, being able to pay their bills and provide the basic comforts of life for their families would be a great blessing—a definite step up.

In some countries, being prosperous might mean having a bicycle or motorcycle to ride, or an ox to plow the fields to plant a crop.

[size=20pt] Why Does God Prosper Us? [/size]

God sends prosperity to bless us and meet our needs. But even more important, He prospers us to make it possible for us to help carry out His work in our communities, our nation, and throughout the earth. If we fail to understand this, or forget it, I believe we run the risk of losing the blessing.

Over the years, RHEMA Bible Training Center has sent out thousands of workers into the harvest. Many graduates are pastoring or working in helps ministries in local churches. Many others are on the mission field carrying out the call of God on their lives. One of the great joys of my life is getting reports from our former students about what they are doing in the work of the Lord.

In this way, we have heard many testimonies from people in various developing nations who have heard the Gospel and have given their hearts to God. As they began to believe and practice God's Word, they also began to experience prosperity, or increase, in their lives. The things they were thankful for might not seem like very much to people in developed nations, but just having clean water for their children or a roof that didn't leak represented a dramatic improvement for them.

I remember one national missions leader testifying that when he began working in one area, none of the national pastors or evangelists under his supervision had any transportation except walking. As he began teaching them about the principles of prosperity and believing God to supply their needs, in just a year or so, every national minister in his district had either a bicycle or motorcycle, or some other motorized vehicle. This made it so much easier and more convenient for them to get to different villages to preach Jesus and share the Good News of the Gospel. Now these people still were not wealthy by the standards of some, but they considered themselves blessed and prosperous!

Prosperity is not an "American gospel." It will work in Africa, India, China, or anywhere else God's people practice the truth of His Word. If it's not true in the poorest place on earth, it's not true at all!
Why have people in America and other developed nations been blessed with more material resources than other countries?
I don't know the complete answer. I do know that we have so much to be thankful for. Anyone who has traveled to the underdeveloped nations can confirm that even our poorest citizens have more than most of the world's people.
Perhaps one reason we have been entrusted with so many resources is so we can finance the worldwide fulfillment of Christ's Great Commission and do other good works. Surely we do have a responsibility to share our blessings. Jesus said, " . . . For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more
(Luke 12:48).

The Apostle James declared, "Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin" (James 4:17). May God help us not to fail to do the good that is in our power to do.

[size=20pt]Be Good Stewards By Being Informed[/size]

Not only do we have an obligation to bless others and help finance taking the Gospel into all the world, but we are also responsible to invest our funds into ministries that are trustworthy and productive. Like a farmer, we should do our best to determine that we are sowing our seeds into good ground.

As I have said, I believe a Christian's first consideration and priority in giving should be to his local church. The tithe should go to the church to support the ministers and the outreaches of that assembly of believers.
Second, believers can and should also support other ministries from which they receive spiritual food and that they have committed to "partner with." This support should come from offerings over and above the tithe.

I believe our basic giving should be planned and systematic. Paul urged believers to give as they "purposed in their hearts." Th[b]at means they should be giving on purpose, rather than from an emotional appeal, from guilt, or on some impulse. [/b] Giving "as the Spirit leads" is fine, but that should be done in addition to one's planned and systematic giving, not in place of it. A church needs consistent and regular support it can count on in order to keep its work and programs running smoothly. Erratic and inconsistent giving by members makes it difficult for the church to plan and maintain a budget.

Ministries that function outside, but in support of, the local church also depend on consistent and systematic gifts. One-time or occasional gifts are welcome and appreciated, but an organization like Kenneth Hagin Ministries also needs a regular revenue flow it can count on. This is the purpose of our Word Partner Club, where friends commit to send regular gifts on a monthly basis.
Believers should look for organizations to support that are productive for the Kingdom of God, ministries that are actively contributing to the preaching of the Gospel and the expansion of the Church. A prospective giver might ask questions such as the following:

How many people are being born again and filled with the Spirit through this ministry?

How many people are being established and strengthened in the faith through its outreaches?

Is multiplication taking place? Are ministers being produced and churches being established?

Is good being accomplished in the world and in the Body of Christ through this ministry?

Is its message one of truth?

Is the ministry a good steward of its finances? Are the methods used in ministry and in fundraising ethical and wholesome?

Is the ministry (and its ministers) financially accountable?


There are also some "red flags" or warning signs to watch for in determining whether a ministry is sound and worthy of support. I would suggest the utmost caution in supporting or being involved with any organization that has the following marks:

Exerts pressure to give or encourages impulse giving by saying, "You must give now!"

Makes suggestions of condemnation and guilt if you don't give.

Uses hype, emotionalism, and spiritual manipulation, such as "prophesying" dollars out of your pocket.

Makes outlandish promises such as "Everyone who gives now will receive a hundredfold return." Or, "Those who give to this offering will have your debts cancelled."

Does not promote the local church, or projects the idea that theirs is the only ministry worth supporting.

Spends more time and energy raising funds than in doing the work of the ministry.

Builds money appeals around gimmicks and sensationalism.


Let's strive to maintain balance in every area, including the area of finances and prosperity. Remember to look to the whole counsel of God's Word while not neglecting practical wisdom and common sense. This will help you stay in the middle of the road at all times.

[size=20pt]Pursuing Truth in a Balanced Way[/size]

A friend of mine, Bob Buess, published a book in 1975 entitled, The Pendulum Swings. A Baptist minister who received the infilling of the Holy Spirit, Brother Buess was also out on the evangelistic field during the same years I was, and from time to time, we would run into each other and have good fellowship together. His book has some important things to say about pursuing spiritual truth in a balanced, loving way, avoiding a legalistic, dogmatic spirit. In the preface to his book, Buess writes the following (all emphases are mine):

A few years ago I was interested in a certain teaching, so I began to pursue the Word of God to find more on this subject. I believed the Bible from cover to cover, but I allowed myself to disregard certain Scriptures. I blanked out certain truths. My mind became completely indifferent to certain verses in the Word.

My new dogma was no different from the old, but I began to defend my new doctrine. It was, in a subtle way, becoming a god which I had to defend and protect.
I was not an unusual case. It's easy for Christians to pursue a thought which the Holy Spirit aroused in them as they studied the Scriptures. In their excitement, they set out to explore the Word of God to see what could be found. When they find a few Scriptures to support this new-found idea, they soon can be running madly through the Bible trying to prove their theory. *** ***

Dogmatism begins to set in. Without fully realizing what they are doing, these people jump verses, throw out some, and ignore others to prove their point. . . .
People driven by this cause rush madly on in a pursuit of new arguments to promote their theory. As time passes they become harsh. . . .

The purpose of this book is to cause the reader[i] to slow down and look at the other side of some issues facing Christians today. [/i] It is to let the pendulum swing back into the will of God rather than let it be hung up in dogmas and legalism. It is to call for a re-examination of present studies from a nonpartisan viewpoint. It is a call to take seriously James 3:1 which condemns the teacher who dogmatically rushes ahead without balance in his teaching.

The Apostle Paul wrote a letter to the Galatian Christians who were leaving the simplicity of the gospel and reverting to rules and regulations. That Galatian spirit is working in the Body of Christ today, causing some believers to be legalistic in their approach to the Word and to be hard and dogmatic in dealing with truth and with people. . . .
People are caught up in confusion and error simply because teachers have rushed headlong into pet doctrines with no regard for the other side.
Seeing the other side requires that we pursue wisdom. Proverbs 4:7 says: "Wisdom is the principal thing, therefore get wisdom, and with all thy getting get understanding. . . . Jesus Christ Himself will deliver us from legalism, for He is wisdom (1 Corinthians
1:30).

I believe Buess's insightful comments still apply to us today and we would be wise to consider them.

[size=20pt]Extremes Are Sometimes Necessary[/size]

One problem I've seen through the years concerning the Church is that people holding different beliefs on spiritual issues often begin waning over their positions. I saw this happen firsthand during the days of the Healing Revival, which was from 1947 to 1958. Before it was over, extremism and error actually destroyed the ministry (and life) of more than one talented and effective man. And the momentum of that great revival was stopped when great numbers of people were disappointed and hurt by the excesses of some of its leaders.

Early in the revival, Donald Gee wrote an article in The Voice of Healing issuing a call for reason and responsibility. The article was entitled, "Extremes Are Sometimes Necessary." I have included it in its entirety (all emphases are mine).

One of the paradoxes of the truly Pentecostal witness is its emphasis upon the necessity of maintaining a proper balance in doctrine and practice, coupled with a complementary testimony that often urges to extremes in both.
Paul's teaching concerning spiritual gifts is all for balance and moderation— "I will sing with the spirit and I will sing with the understanding also"; We are to avoid giving any impression of being "mad"; "By two, or at the most by three"; "God is not the author of confusion, but of peace"; "Let all things be done decently and in order" (1 Cor. 14:15,
23,27,33,40).

Yet at the same time he affirms in extreme language that he speaks with tongues more than they all; expresses a vehement preference for teaching at a ratio of 10,000 to 5; and says "ye may all prophesy" (1 Cor. 14:18,19,31)....

So many of us are inveterate [firmly established] extremists. If we see any ray of truth we push it to such an extreme that our constant pressing of it becomes offensive, vain and at last erroneous. If we discover any successful line of ministry we run after it to such an extent that it becomes nauseating and exhausted. We are for ever missing genuine usefulness by our constant failure to keep well-balanced. In the end men lose confidence in us, our intemperance grieves the Holy Spirit, and we are cast upon the scrap-heap of rejected and unprofitable servants. ***very apt... how terrible ***

But still more of us are in danger of missing a life of power by seeking to walk in monotonous middle-course that never ventures to an extreme at all. Our preaching lacks fire because it always is trying to present both sides of a case at the same time, and our methods are ineffective because they eschew [avoid] any offense against respectability or tradition. We may, if we like, pride ourselves upon our success in avoiding disaster but our safety has been achieved by remaining static. We have made practically no impact upon the community. If it be true that they have never charged us with madness it also is true that they never have reported that God is among us of a truth. Most probably they do not even know of our existence!

We rightly extol the importance of balance; we correctly affirm that the way of truth will not be found in extremes; we justly point out that persistent extremism is suicidal for both men and movements—but we desperately need to recognize that revivals are never launched without someone going to an extreme. Passionate intercession is positively unbalanced; so is much fasting; so is fervent preaching that makes sinners tremble; and feverish itinerating that makes a missionary or an evangelist seem beside himself. We do well to remember that our Lord's Own kinsmen thought that He had gone mad (Mark 3:21); and that He quoted "The zeal of Thine house hath eaten me up" (John 2:17) when He kicked over the table of the money-changers.

The Day of Pentecost so disturbed the emotional balance of the disciples that they seemed like drunken men. . . . Thirty years later a Roman Governor accused Paul of being mad. The charge was courteously and properly refuted but let us admit that Festus was no fool. Paul himself testified that at times he was beside himself (2 Cor. 5:13), and his superb sanity of teaching and outlook operated on a heavenly level.

There HAS to be an extremism to move things.... Miracles of healing occur when faith refuses to be logical, and blinds itself to arguments, based on plenty of contrary experience and more "balanced" teaching. Indeed we may well enquire whether there is not something extreme in any genuine miracle.

Where, then, lies the way of Pentecostal truth that embraces a legitimate extremism and an essential balance? I can only reply that we need the extremist to start things moving, but we need the balanced teacher to keep them moving in the right direction. We need extremism for a miracle of healing, but we need balanced sanity for health. We need extreme fervor to launch a movement, but we need the repudiation of extremes to save it from self- destruction. Only a wisdom from above can reveal the perfect synthesis. It takes Pentecostal genius to know when and where an extreme doctrine or practice must be modified to a more balanced view; and where, on the other hand, the broad lines of truth must be temporarily narrowed into an extreme emphasis upon one point to ensure a dynamic powerful enough to move things for God. The possession of that uncommon genius marks the God-sent leader who has emerged in truly great periods of revival.

Believe In What He Has Made You · Monday, October 20th

Pastor Chris

But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light (1 Peter 2:9).

Observe our profound description in the verse we just read: we’re chosen, royal and peculiar; chosen to be the expression of God’s righteousness, and the manifestation of His glory in the earth. We’re God’s best, and there’s so much He has deposited within our spirits to bless the world with.

In Genesis 12:2, He said to Abram, "…I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing." You’re the seed of Abraham, because the Bible says in Galatians 3:29 that "…if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed...." Therefore, not only are you blessed, you’re also a blessing. You carry the blessing with you. Everything you touch is blessed, as well as all those who are connected with you.

Contemplate for a moment on your peculiar attributes and heritage in Christ! The Bible says you’re God’s workmanship (Ephesians 2:10), His handiwork— crafted for excellence. You’ve been thoroughly furnished with everything you need to live victoriously and be an extraordinary success. So don’t try to be somebody else. Become satisfied with who you are, and with the fact that God loves you, and He’s happy to have you.

Furthermore, keep sowing the right seeds—the right words—into your personality; listen to, and endorse only words that inspire you, and build your confidence on who you are in Christ. God is confident and convinced about what He has made. He knows your true worth and your abilities. He knows that nothing is impossible with you. He has placed you over and above sickness, disease, poverty, failure, death and the devil. He has made you indestructible, for He has said no weapon fashioned against you shall prosper (Isaiah 54:17).

Believe these truths and live accordingly, so you can effectively live your best, and be all that God has destined you to be.

Prayer...
Dear Father, thank you for making me special; I’m glad to know how unique I am, and all that you’ve made me in Christ Jesus. I yield myself to you, to accomplish your purpose and perfect will for my life, to your glory and praise, in Jesus’ Name. Amen.

Further Study: 
Ephesians 2:10 AMP
10 For we are God’s [own] handiwork (His workmanship), [a]recreated in Christ Jesus, [born anew] that we may do those good works which God predestined (planned beforehand) for us [taking paths which He prepared ahead of time], that we should walk in them [living the good life which He prearranged and made ready for us to live].

2 Corinthians 5:21 [KJV] For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

1 year Bible reading plan: 1 timothy 2:1-15 Jeremiah 7-8
2 year Bible reading plan : Hebrews 10:1-18 Ezekiel 18-19

[size=20pt]Chapter 7: BALANCE AND SOUND TEACHING[/size]

Throughout this book, I have tried to stress the importance of providing a proper emphasis on important Christian truths. On so many of these issues, there have been people who emphasized a particular idea or concept so much that they carried it to an extreme. Their attitude seemed to be, if a little bit of this is good, then a whole lot must be better.
When this happened, usually another group rose up to correct the overemphasis. Unfortunately, often their "correction" was to the opposite extreme—because "too much" of this idea is so offensive, let's get rid of it altogether. You might say they tended to "throw the baby out with the bath water."

The result was that a great gulf was created between the two extreme positions, and often misunderstandings and animosity arose. People in both camps got so caught up in the conflict that they forgot the original motivation of both sides, which was to do good and bless people. And in their overzealousness, both sides often lost sight of the original truth!

My way of describing this is to call the basic truth—the biblical position—the middle of the road, and the extreme applications as the ditches on either side of the road. It has been my experience that a person doesn't have to travel very far before he sees people off in a ditch on one side of the road or the other. For some reason, it seems like the hardest thing in the world for the Body of Christ to stay balanced on a subject.

Take note that it is not just bad people who get into a ditch. Good people—sincere, well-meaning Christian believers whose zealousness for the truth is commendable can allow their zeal to exceed their wisdom. I believe that even some of the Christian leaders whose failures made national headlines in past years did not intentionally set out to hurt anyone or to fall into error. They went out on tangents and got away from the main purpose and central truth of the Gospel. Once off track, it was all too easy to go downhill in a hurry.

Let's look at some examples of basic Bible truths and their extreme applications—the middle of the road position and the ditches on either side of the road.

Subject Water Baptism

Error and Extreme The Ditch on One Side of the Road You can't be saved unless you're baptized using a special formula.

The Truth The Middle Of the Road Baptism is an ordinance of the Church that communicates our identification with Christ's death, burial, and resurrection.

Error and Extreme Ditch on the Other Side of the Road Baptism has no relevance or importance today whatsoever.

Subject Divine Healing

Error and Extreme The Ditch on One Side of the Road Healing has been done away with. The day of miracles is past.

The Truth The Middle Of the Road: God does heal today, but natural means of help are appropriate and acceptable also. ***Shedemidemi take notes

Error and Extreme Ditch on the Other Side of the Road Divine healing is the only legitimate way to go. Using doctors or medicine is a sin.

Subject Ministry Gifts

Error and Extreme The Ditch on One Side of the Road We don't need pastors and ministers any longer. God is going to use everyone equally. ***frosbel take note***

The Truth The Middle Of the Road:The ministry gifts Christ gave are still here today. Their job is to equip the saints to do the work of the ministry and to further each Christian's walk with God by feeding them the Word.

Error and Extreme Ditch on the Other Side of the Road Those with ministry gifts are a superior class of Christians. They should rule over all other Christians and run not only the church, but also the lives of all believers.

Do you recognize some or all of the varying positions on these basic issues? You may be aware of some extreme views on other doctrinal points as well. Finding, and staying, in a balanced position on basic issues such as these is obviously not an easy task. To this day, some churches struggle to stay out of the ditches of error when it comes to administering the ministry gifts.

[size=20pt]Ministry Gifts Should Produce Balance[/size]

One of the pioneers of Pentecostalism who helped the movement get established on a firm biblical foundation was an Englishman named Donald Gee. He spoke so eloquently about the problems of extremism and excesses that he became known as the "Apostle of Balance." I was privileged to meet him many years ago and hear him speak. I read many of his articles and books and always found them to be full of wisdom and insight. I loved and appreciated his ministry.


In the 1930s Gee wrote the following profound counsel about how the ministry gifts interact to produce balance and soundness.

One of the most charming things that meet us on the very threshold of studies on the ministry-gifts of Christ, is their wise variety.
It is true that the first on the list, the apostle, seems to embrace almost every type of ministry; but there are prophets, whose ministry is inspirational and appeals to the emotional elements of human nature; and then to balance these are teachers, whose ministry is logical and appeals to the intellectual faculties. . . . Then there are evangelists whose ministry will be almost exclusively without
[outside] the church: and pastors whose ministry will be almost exclusively within the church—both equally needed and honorable.


This matter of balance in ministry is vitally important to effective, aggressive ministry without, and well-rounded growth within; far more important than most believers realize . Many assemblies have no vision but that of a one-man ministry, which is expected to fulfill every requirement—evangelistic, pastoral, teaching, prophetic. One man is expected to have marked success in evangelism, be a splendid organizer, a good pastoral visitor, a competent Bible teacher, possessing in addition gifts of healing and inspired utterance. The marvel is that so many men seem to approximate at least in some measure to these exorbitant and unScriptural demands. Usually it is at terrific strain to themselves; and it may easily result in their never reaching a first-class competence in what is their truly God-given line of ministry.

Other assemblies and individuals do not even seem to have the desire or vision for one man to fill every needed line of ministry; they only appear to see one line of ministry, and have neither time, nor appreciation, nor encouragement for anything beyond their own line of things. For instance, some assemblies and individual believers have no vision or enthusiasm for anything but evangelism in the narrowest sense of that term, and almost ignore teaching and teachers. On the opposite hand, there are others who would, if they had their way, have so much Bible teaching that they would turn any assembly into little more than a Bible school, and completely ignore an aggressive outside testimony.

Both the above types may quite likely unite in "despising prophesyings" (1 Thessalonians 5:20), and have no time nor place for the gifts of prophecy, tongues, or interpretation. Yet at the other extreme there are those who place such an undue value and importance upon these very gifts that they do not consider a preacher to be in the blessing and liberty of the Spirit at all unless his ministry is continually sprinkled with manifestations of this description; and they like every meeting of the assembly to be dominated by these features. In each and every case there is a serious lack of balance.

What is needed is an appreciation of the varied ministries Christ has placed in the church, and a realization that each and all of them are essential to well-rounded activity and growth. It is no uncommon thing to hear teachers disparage evangelists by calling them superficial" or "sensational": and then to hear evangelists stigmatize teachers as being "stodgy" and "dry." Both types may unite in calling prophets fanatical and extreme; and then the inspirational folk retaliate by calling the equally God-given ministry of their brethren "carnal" and "fleshly" when, rightly understood, it is nothing of the kind.
***i had to laugh ***

All such attitudes are wrong. It is perfectly true that there can be extremes in evangelism which are superficial: there can be extremes in teaching which are heavy and barren: there can be extremes in prophesying which are most undeniably fanatical. Yet the true remedy is not to be found in repressing therefore any particular one of these lines of diverse ministry, for thereby we may all too easily quench the Spirit of God also.

Indeed this has been actually done too often; men have dealt with the false and unprofitable at the terrible expense of cutting out the real at the same time. It needs an inspired touch to regulate inspired ministry. The divine plan is for each and every ministry which God has set in the church to correct and complement the other, thereby providing just the elements lacking and just the check needed to restore overbalanced tendencies on any one line
—the prophet to inspire the teacher, the teacher to steady the
prophet; the evangelist to continually remind us of the needy world outside dying for the gospel, the pastor to show us that souls still need much caring for even after they have been "won."

The apostle above all to inspire and lead the way to fresh conquests for Christ and His church. [The emphasis in the previous two sentences is mine.]1

***standing ovation***

Some seventy years later, this is still a wonderful word for the Church. Indeed, "the matter of balance in ministry is vitally important—far more important than most believers realize."

[size=20pt]The Money Balance[/size]

Now let's talk about the issue of balance when it comes to money. Again, people tend to end up in one of three positions:

Error and Extreme
The Ditch on One Side of the Road
• Money is an evil that all
Christians should avoid.
• God wants His children to be poor
• Poverty shows humility.
• Preachers should never talk about money

The Truth Middle Of the Road
• God wants to bless and prosper His children.
• We are to seek first the Kingdom of God as opposed to being materialistically oriented.
• Preachers should teach the truth of God's Word about money, but they shouldn't be self-serving.
• Preachers should keep their teaching on prosperity in balance with the many other truths of God's Word.

Error and Extreme Ditch on the Other Side of the Road
• Getting rich is the main focus of faith.
• God's main interest is your material well- being.
.• Material gain shows godliness.
• Preachers should teach about money more than any other subject.


I often have the opportunity to talk with pastors from all over the country. They tell me that one of the greatest frustrations they face is determining how to maintain balance on the issue of prosperity and financial blessings. If they stress keeping motives pure and not becoming covetous or greedy, it seems that people have trouble believing God for material things. On the other hand, if they stress and emphasize believing God for prosperity, people often tend to get overly materialistic.

Again, those who get off into a ditch on this issue are not necessarily bad people. But even sincere, honest people can allow their zeal for truth to exceed their wisdom.