₦airaland Forum

pickabeau1:
is the new chapter out

On the way bro... work got crazier today

vooks:
You should speak against it as well. Save your fellow brethren from pious fraud.
Did paul ever mention by name wrongdoers?

Oh yes! I speak against it. But i will not mention Pastor's names and churches. I've never believed in extortion. I made mention of a friend of mine who left CE because she said her pastor, a lady, was 'greedy'. One day, maybe later, I'd share her story.

She was more that extorted. But I remember Pastor Chris this year vehemently opposing exactly same thing as what my friend's Pastor did to her. He did it with strong terms in this year's finance convention.

Now, a branch of CE did it, does it make the whole CE wrong or bad? I'm very sure that Pastor did it in ignorance, not as she was taught. That is why mentioning Pastor's and churches could be very erroneous. She misses Pastor Chris' meetings, alot, and can't seem to fit in another church, she listens to Pastor Chris at home, but I pray for her, always.

Lobeez:
@Gombs, you have a point, but what you must understand is there is a difference between someone ignorantly walking in error and someone who deliberately arranges schemes to fleece Gods children. Some of these men know the consequences of some of their actions on the people they pull it off on but will turn a blind eye because of the wickedness of greed that has taken over them.

Oh boy, the youtube videos, web links, blogs etc is really doing a lot, but you can't see it because you are on the other side of the divide. I've met dozens of people who turned their backs on WOF after seeing some of these videos. Let me give my own story: I started reading Hagins books as far back as 1989, by the time I became a teenager, I had read up to a dozen of his books. (My Mum, a Deeper Life leader had a large collection of Hagins books). I was truly inspired by his message and great testimonies of Gods power. I became fully immersed in WOF from 1993 to 2007. I was part of the emerging 'pentecostal' era of those times
However after I began my gradual withdrawal from the WOF, had the opportunity for the first time to see videos of some of the people I had only read in books, some of these videos shocked me. My curiosity was ignited and I wanted to know more, sadly more led to more and more and more till I could not take it any longer.
Today, I see through most of them and what saddens me is the fact that a lot of them know exactly what they are doing. Most of my friends that started the journey with me joined this bandwagon, they are international ministers today and professional snake oil salesmen.

I will only pray for the few who are just ignorantly misled, but for those who are deliberately wicked, I will expose them at any given time. I do not see them as men of God so do not have have an iota of respect for them

Thanks

Alright bro!

vooks:
I don't know how Hagin did, care to explain?

He condemned the act in strong terms, but not the churches, nor the pastors, for good reasons- They are not answerable to him, but to God. You don’t just crucify MenOG in your book or posts because you feel you are right. If you want to correct them, call them, like Hagin did, and rebuke them to their face as Paul did to Peter's face.

Imagine if Paul sat in his bedroom and wrote to all churches about Peter condemning him in strong terms. Paul wrote about the rebuke as you knew Hagin called a meeting rebuking some preachers, Paul did his rebuke in the presence of other Pastors (James, Barnabas etc) not to the whole Christians there, just like Hagin did in the presence of other pastors. Hagin has his church, others too, Paul was to the uncircumcised, Peter to the circumcised, imagine if Paul condemned the curcumcised church with their Pastor (probably head pastor) ?

I believe in prayer, condemning these Pastors or the churches WILL NOT make any change, if it could, those putting up short videos, blogs, websites etc would have made an impact-we both know the didn’t and haven't..., we have the message now, we preach it, share the book, send to these pastor's etc... condemning to me will not help the body of Christ, it would inevitably degenerate to insulting and all. Our weapons of warfare should not be carnal.

vooks:
thank you for your honesty.
DO you believe they should be condemned in the strongest terms?

Like Hagin did?

brocab:
Yes." Jesus said: Birds have nest, foxes have holes, but I have no place to rest my head. If Jesus was rich as some believe he was, Then with common sense. since the world began, never had the rich associated with the poor. So Jesus was poor. But rich in wisdom & knowledge..Jesus was the greatest possibility thinker their ever was on this planet, but he had chosen to be poor.

SMH ...

What To Do In Austere Times · Thursday, October 23rd

Pastor Chris

When men are cast down, then thou shalt say, There is lifting up… (Job 22:29).

The challenges of our day may be enormous, but amidst so much inflation, rising cost of living, you can still say, "When men are cast down, I am lifted up." When you begin to feel the pressure and the economic squeeze, don’t complain; that’s the time to make the Word work. Get into your closet and begin to declare your prosperity and abundance in Christ. Proclaim that you’re the seed of Abraham; an heir of God, and a joint-heir with Christ.

When you have sufficiently proclaimed the Word over your situation, those confessions will dominate your senses, such that when you’re asked, "How are you?" you’ll say, "Great things are happening! Good things are coming my way today!" Halleluiah. If you don’t talk the Word, the system of this world will overwhelm you, and you’ll be a victim in life. With the Word in your mouth, you’ll blaze through every barrier in life.

An important principle you need to learn that’ll help you grow bigger financially is letting your mind soar beyond the prevailing economic situation around you. Think how big God is. Think about the whole world as yours, for it’s indeed yours: "...For all things are yours" (1 Corinthians 3:21). Learn the value of meditating on the Word of God; it’ll give you an extraordinary mind-set, such that you’re unperturbed in austere times.

Let the Word of God enlarge your vision. Refuse to see lack and want. Look beyond the horizon. Your prosperity should be born of the Word in spite of circumstances. Isaac prospered in the midst of harsh economic conditions. In a time of famine, the Bible says he prospered, waxed great, made progress, and grew until he became very great (Genesis 26). There’s so much treasure in your country; and like Isaac, amidst the seeming hardship, you can prosper, wax great, make progress and grow, and become very great.

Confession...
I’m making progress, prospering and waxing great in every area of my life! The greater One lives in me, and He’s made me bigger, greater, and superior to inflation, insecurity, sickness, disease, and the devil. I’m a victor in Christ Jesus. Halleluiah!

Further Study:
Joshua 1:9; Have not I commanded thee? Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee whithersoever thou goest.

Ephesians 6:10; Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.

Job 22:29 When men are cast down, then thou shalt say, There is lifting up; and he shall save the humble person.

1-Year Bible Reading Plan: 1 Timothy 5:1-25 Jeremiah 13-14
2-Year Bible Reading Plan: Hebrews 11:17-40 Ezekiel 22

brocab:
My quote wasn't set out to be idiotic as you say. It was meant so you can see how the truth, today has been twisted. We have got to remember the old testament tithing was set up for the priesthood who couldn't own land, also to help feed the "poor" and the "needy. It was the Pharisees who had chosen to change Gods Mosaic law, they tithe, but they didn't follow any other commandments. Matthew 23, V's 13 Woe to you, Scribes and Pharisees, Hypocrites. For you shut up the kingdom of heaven against men:for you never go in yourselves. V's 14,Woe to you, Scribes and Pharisees, For you devour widows' houses, V's 15 for you travel land and sea to win one proselyte, and when he is won, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves. V's 16-Woe to you, blind guides, who say, "whoever swears by the temple, it is nothing; but whoever swears by the gold of the temple, he is obliged to perform it". V's 23 Woe to you Scribes and Pharisees, pretenders {hypocrites}for you give a tithe of your mint and anise and cumin,and have neglected the weightier matters of the law; Justice, and mercy and faith. These you ought to have done, with out leaving the others undone. These are the same Scribes, Pharisees and lawyers who paid tithes but didn't follow any of God's commandments" But abuse it. Jesus had to change the old covenant. And when we see in today's churches, again our priesthood, will tithe, but neglected the weightier matters of the law; Justice,and mercy and faith. Jesus had good reason to change that old covenant, he had seen the damaging side to it. The lord said: you cant worship Mammon and God at the same time, you will either hate one or love the other. That is why the old covenant was changed...

please move your tithe lectures somewhere else like the thread for tithes and offerings. Ummmm...please, next time, employ paragraphs.

Next up is Chapter 5: Should preachers prosper?

pickabeau1:
Gombs you have not answered all of my questions

I must have missed them or more importantly ignored some, but... I thought we were discussing Hagin's book not me being interviewed? The issue with answering some of these questions is that it tends to derail the thread and defeat the purpose of the thread via the book. Remember folks can take it to extremes, that's why I discourage mentioning churches and Preachers name.

Hagin didn’t, in all his 68years of ministry, he sure had good reasons. Folks are smart enough to judge for themselves in their local assembly, and pray or teach or ask their pastors questions.

trustman:
Suddenly Gombs is not answering questions directly again and has resorted to prayers.

Your Opinion!
Duly noted

feedthenation:
My goodness...this is pure and undiluted idolatry.

God and mammon (money) should not be mixed together.

It's beyond grief that only the 'prosperity preachers' are richly blessed, whilst their members keep floating their business empires.
Why is that their members are not living large in mansions, driving bentley cars, no private jets, shopping in exclusive boutiques and such likes..is our God a partial God?

Here's another link to one of them, http://www.bishopjordan.com/

Pray for the Church of God. Meanwhile, please, no names mentioning

vooks:
Ever witnessed any of these personally?

I'm not sure, not in my church though

Were you convinced that it was WRONG?
What did you do about it?

Refer to the above, I have no reason to lie, nor cover anyone

OLAADEGBU:
You were not patient enough to read the subsequent sentence which said:



He qualified what he meant by "hell" by saying "The Great White Throne Judgment."

Don't side step this one... from the OP, i read Hell (Lake of fire), i promptly asked, Ola, Hell and Lake of fire aint same, you need proof?

the above explanation did not answer my question

OLAADEGBU:
Jesus defeated the devil on the cross not in hell. Don't believe the heresy that your church teaches that the devil tormented Jesus in hell before the Father rescued Him.

He stripped all the spiritual tyrants in the universe of their sham authority at the Cross and marched them naked through the streets. Colosians 2 from verse 14.

you mean these happened on the cross?

the devil did not torment Jesus and God hence rescued him. That is fat lie, but Jesus went down there as a man, defeated the devil as a man, and freed em saints. If Jesus really defeated the devil on the cross, what part exactly? when he said it is finished or when He died, or when he was brought down.

but, if He was made sin, and the Father seperated from Him, when He died, where did He go to? Was He in the middle or Heaven or Hades where saints were?

The moment our sins was placed on Him at the cross and He shed His precious blood the price for our sins was paid. Jesus had the Power to lay down His life and at raise it up again which He did on the third day.

What part of hell was he dragged to? Hell or Hades? don't forget, both were in Hell... why are we still debating it sef?

The OT saints were saved because they believed the promise of God. They were looking forward to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ just as believers today are looking backward to the finished work on the Cross and forward for His second coming. All it takes is faith in Christ, either looking forward or backward. The OT saints were saved as a result of their faith just as a person taking an I.O.U. (I Owe You) in accounting terms which will be paid back when the money arrives. Their price was paid when Jesus died on the Cross shedding His blood and went to Abraham's bosom to declare the victory and took them up to paradise just as Had promised the thief on the Cross.

"Wherefore He saith, When He ascended up on high, He led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. (Now that He ascended, what is it but that He also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that He might fill all things)" (Ephesians 4:8-10).

Ola, was He in Hades where sinless folks were? If Yes, Why?

baloney!

OLAADEGBU:
Done. Next question? Good afternoon.

i already did. Scroll up

pickabeau1:
ch7...it seems you persist in annotating the book and calling out people (frosbel etc)

anyhow u want it

SO THE QUESTION IS

So which major pentecostal movement in nigeria does not use the highlighted

No name calling here, i won't partake of that stunt. How many ministries did Hagin call out? You thought he was blind or deaf?

BabaGnoni:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEgS2uDMEF4
pickabeau1, this one is for you bro.
Enjoy watching Leroy Thompson and Creflo Dollar or throw up
- Now you know why he couldn't muster strength to turn up at Hagin's called meeting

leave the man alone! besides, i see nothing wrong in this video. Just that someone wanted us to see what he wanted us to. He shhold have given s the whole message, not that clip.

Lobeez:
Had to share this piece I came across years back from the king of wealth transfer himself Dr Leroy Thompson
This guy is way off the hook with prosperity pimping.
Was in a CE church in Lagos sometime ago and the pastor demonstrated the "MONEY COMETH" ritual which Leroy Thompson invented

Happy Viewing


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bb2q_BzNHl4

had to put an earpiece on...didn't believe my ear, but then again, some one wanted us to see and hear what they wanted us to see and hear... but this thread is not to nail any preacher, it is about the book. Please. Hagin nailed no on enor mentioned any church.

Thanks

nannymcphee:
Try pasting it into Microsoft word first, highlight maybe 6-10 lines per time

That's how I did mine, there was no repition

Though it wasn't a smooth process, it kinda of lags

Thanks... i have it converted to .doc already.

nora544:
I wanted to post about the history of MIDAS TOUCH , that is comes from greece.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midas

Spare us the gist, it is in the book...go buy it and read. You love wikipedia a whole lot more than your bible.

Chapter 7 is up! Pheeeew!

brocab:
The tithe was set up in the old testament. Bring your food into the storehouse so the priesthood and the the poor can be fed. These day's the tithing messages had changed, now they are taking the tithe from all walks of life such as the needy and the poor. Tithing was never monies, 1 Timothy 6-5 tells us clearly priest-pastors men of corrupt minds who suppose that godliness is the means of gain. From such withdraw yourselves. When did we hear of Jesus catching a plane, or should I say buying one.

I must say your post is idiotic. No offense intended please.

Don’t derail, this is not a tithe discussion thread. If Jesus had access to flights during his time, or if he were around today, he'd have trekked with a donkey from Nazareth to Jerusalem, then down to Judea, Samaria etc. Go get a world map and check the distances. He'd have used a donkey or ship, shey?

See you all in 3hrs time. Chapter 7 in the pipeline

Candour:
]In other words you believe Gates, Zuckerberg, Seun etc will lose their wealth to you and others? Then why are you denying? Do you not understand what End time transfer of wealth means?

Must God make Gates, Zuckerberg, Seun etc bankrupt, fail etc before he can provide for Christians? Must you eye and covet the riches of those hardworking people? So because you'll be here in 50 years if Jesus tarries, they must become poor for you to get riches?

Candour na,
The Bible does teach that when the Church returns with Jesus after the Tribulation and He sets up His Millennial Kingdom on earth, we will be inheriting all of the wealth of the sinners at that time. Where is bankruptcy here? Why would God want to bankrupt folks to get Christians rich?

You can conjure up theories you think I meant, especially the above bold and colored, even suggesting I eye and covet the riches of others is nauseating and slanderous.

Until you can show where I've argued against giving to the body of Christ, the above quote remains immaterial to me.

All tithe threads...you stance there does not putting givings in churches in good light especially calling of ministers and ministries names. But these are immaterial now, I don't wan to derail further. Thanks

You know my position on tithing and I expect you to know my position on christian giving. You emphasise this quote to make it look like the organised church lack funds as it is and I asked how lacking in funds is a ministry whose G.O personally cruises 4 private jets. Lack of tithe and offerings isn't the problem of the church; stealing, misappropriation, misplaced priorities etc are .

So what did you do about it on nairaland? You created an impression all mega churches are fraudulent., if that's not the case, then fine. I'm glad you said you've learnt too from the book.

Would you give money to a beggar rocking an iPhone, a Gucci shoe, an Armani jeans and shirt in a range sport? That's how those flamboyant ministers who constantly whine about needing funds look.

Which beggar has those? Are you calling your former GO a beggar? Or are you calling mega churches? Who exactly is the word 'beggar' conoting?

Pls quote where I said people shouldn't give

They should not tithe, no?

If by any means I seemingly supported End time transfer of wealth (a fact I know I didn't pray for some non christian guys to go broke for my sake), or crested the impression, I hereby tender my apology.

Candour:
Actually, you were very sure their wealth was coming to you today and today means the present. You even acknowledge this idea came from mainly one scripture. Once again see your own words

How is that End time transfer of wealth? When you for want? Christians of the future? If Jesus tarries, I'd still be walking this earth in 50years time.

Folks can go ahead and read our exchanges on that thread. Thank God you didn't accuse me of remixing what you said. I only quoted the one pertaining to the subject matter. We were talking about so many things there. I put the link to the thread up. Folks are free to read it up themselves.

Yeah, thanks

Good for you that you're standing by those words and the words are there for whoever is interested. If you don't support that fraudulent doctrine, then I'm glad.

Thanks

Of course I saw the quote. Hagin should know (I'm sure he knew but didn't want to ruffle too many feathers) lack of funds isn't the problem of most of our big churches because folks are pressured to even give what they are not supposed to give as he admitted; lack of prudence and accountability is. Oyedepo my former G.O owns 4 private jets. Tell me here that you believe he truly needs them all. Do you have any idea of the cost of purchase and maintenance?

You did not attempt the sentence Hagin putdown, maybe I should paste it again

If all Christians would simply tithe and give offerings, the Church would have more than enough funds to accomplish whatever it needs to do. 

Where do you think churches should get funding from, and how?
Lack of prudence and accountability is NOT a viable reason not to give or encourage others not to.

nannymcphee:
@Gombs, thanks for your response, in due time I'll respond your your reply. let me allow you continue or should I create another thread for that?

This is a faceless forum, I just want to know how old are you(?no offense intended)

Ma'am, I'm not offended, but to what good do you need my age for?

nannymcphee:
Aren't you using a PC, why the typing? just copy & paste, it's easier that way

If you copy from the pdf, and paste, it repeats itself ie 1 line repeats itself for like a thousand times. The pdf is signature protected. Besides, I have to highlight, so, no qulams for me.

I used a pdf to word converter sha, and yeah, I'm using my pc not the tab or phone.

Alright fellas, chapter 7 in the pioe line.

*Starts typing in earnest!

shdemidemi:
This thread should and must be recommended specially to joagbaje and image123. How they need to see some of these things, it might just lead them to also repent.

wait for chapter 7, i hope you will repent. Jo and Image has nothing to repent from. Provide what they need repent from ( i am well sure you are against divine healing, where you've claimed it ended with the apostles, and it is only a wicked generation that needs miracle ) , if you deny it, i'd dedicate today to fishing them out). Chapter 7 was specially written for you, and i hope you will be honest enough to admit... not that i expect you to by the way.

"In All These Things…" · Wednesday, October 22nd

Pastor Chris

Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or unclothedness, or peril, or sword? As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter. Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us (Romans 8:35-37).

Your road to success could have trials and challenges: from inflation to economic recession, health issues, unemployment, etc. The good news, however, is that it doesn’t matter the challenges you face or the situation in your country; the Word says, in all these things we are more than conquerors through Christ. This should give you comfort, peace and joy.

Knowing we would encounter challenges in this world, the Lord Jesus assured us of victory when He said in John 16:33: "These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulations: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world." Distressing situations come from the enemy—the devil—but God already made you an overcomer: "Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world" (1 John 4:4). You’ve been lifted over and above the depravities and corrupting influences of this world.

Recall our opening verse again; it states clearly that neither tribulation, distress, persecution, famine, unclothedness, peril, nor sword can separate us from the love of God, because in spite of them all, we are more than conquerors. Now, if this means that no matter what you face in this world, you’d conquer, that would have been wonderful. But it means much more than that. It means you’ve gone past conquering, because you conquered a long time ago—in Christ! You’re now living in the victory of Christ! That means there’s nothing to struggle with or try to overcome anymore, because you’ve already won.

Don’t allow the circumstances of life or the economic situation in your country make you a victim. You were born into the victorious life when you were born again. Therefore, say like the Apostle Paul, "None of these things move me..." (Acts 20:24).

Prayer...
Dear Father, I thank you for the victorious life that I have in Christ! The greater One lives in me; therefore, I live in triumph over circumstances, in total fulfilment, joy, glory and dominion! I reign and rule by your Word, irrespective of what I feel, see, or hear, in Jesus’ Name. Amen.

Further Study:
James 1:2-3;
2 My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;
3 Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.

Psalms 126:1-2
1 When the Lord turned again the captivity of Zion, we were like them that dream.
2 Then was our mouth filled with laughter, and our tongue with singing: then said they among the heathen, The Lord hath done great things for them.

1-Year Bible Reading Plan: 1 timothy 4:1-16 Jeremiah 11-12
2-Year Bible Reading Plan: Hebrews 11:1-16 Ezekiel 21

Candour:
The answer to the question heading of this post is no. I sure hope you agree with him and have corrected your thinking about it because see what you told me when we broached it during one of our discussions in time past.




on this thread

https://www.nairaland.com/1189741/tithes-offerings/105#19933642

I'm glad Hagin mentioned this because this is the erroneous idea behind the ''dominion theology'' which is another branch of the WOF movement.

my friend, try quoting things in full context. Now note what Papa Hagin thoght:

We shouldn't be so concerned about getting sinners' money transferred into our hands. Our concern should be getting their hearts transferred into the Kingdom. We should be focused on their receiving what we have (eternal life), not on our receiving what they have (material goods).

notice i highlighted it in the book as posted on this thread. I was not concerned or waiting to receive their wealth, or praying it to come to me.

you quoted me half way, ignoring your question and the latter part of my post.

you wrote:

Gates and Zuckerberg follow the principle of hard and smart work which God promises to bless(Prov 22:29) and its irrespective of belief or lack of. You claim to follow Tithing principle so tell us why the principle followed by atheists is more efficacious than yours?

there my friend is why i told you from scriptures "they are not efficacious than anything Godly, for they will always store up for the righteous "

this is no way meaning i am praying for Dangote or Gates or etc wealth to come to me. I was not taught so. Interestingly, you for some reasons skipped the latter part of my post;

Go study about men like Coalgate, heinz, Rockefeller, the above is still working for them...their companies are over a hundred years old and the companies are still rolling.

Gates and Zukerberg and Seun won't last 50yrs....take it from me.

I stand by these words, and my post is in no way in support of End-time transfer of wealth. Meanwhile in that post you quoted form the book, why on earth did you not see this?

Our job is not to try to get the wealth of the world. Our job is to faithfully use the wealth we already have to get the Gospel out. If all Christians would simply tithe and give offerings, the Church would have more than enough funds to accomplish whatever it needs to do. Statistics indicate that twenty percent of church members provide eighty percent of church revenue and that the average American Christian gives only six percent of his income to the Lord's work. Imagine where we would be if those percentages were where they ought to be!

any comments?

pickabeau1:
Yes we do....


If I may say you have not accepted the existence of this gimmicks in the naijan church

If we dont agree there is a question how can we find d answer

Oh! I have accepted the existence of these gimmicks in Nigerian churches, even in some CEC churches.