₦airaland Forum

Love Grows with Fellowship-Wednesday, August 13th

Jesus replied, If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.
(John 14:23 NIV)

I want you to understand the language of the Spirit in our opening verse. Why would Jesus say, “If a man loves me, my Father will love him?” Didn’t the Father already love everybody? The Bible says, “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life” (John 3:16). Jesus came because the Father already loved everybody. So, what other love is He referring to here? He’s dealing with fellowship; love grows with fellowship.

When you recognize and reciprocate love, you get more love. As you reciprocate the Father’s love, He further demonstrates His love for you in a peculiar way; He’ll show the world that He loves you. Having believed in the Lord Jesus, one of the most beautiful things you should crave and practise is rich fellowship with Him. It should be your lifestyle, because there’s no love without fellowship.

Fellowship means oneness of spirit; a sharing or communing together. 1 Corinthians 1:9 says, “God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.” 1 John 1:3 says, “…truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.” We’ve been called into fellowship with the Lord, and there can be no fellowship without communication. Commune with Him often, and seek His thoughts, opinions, counsel and guidance in all your endeavours. This is something you do consciously in response to His love.

Your fellowship with the Lord is unique to you. He doesn't have, has never had, and will never have a copy of you; so, He cherishes your fellowship and love. As you fellowship with Him through the Word and the Holy Spirit, you get to know Him more, and your life becomes the expression of His love.

Prayer. ..
Dear Father, I thank you for counting me worthy to be called into fellowship with your Son Jesus Christ. Through fellowship with the Spirit and the Word, I’m transformed into the glorious image of Christ, where my life is the absolute expression of your righteousness, love and grace, in Jesus’ Name. Amen.

Further Study:
2 Corinthians 13:14.
The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen. ;

1 John 1:3.
That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.

Daily Scripture Reading
1 Year Bible Reading Plan: Romans 15:5-13, Psalms 94-98
2 Year Bible Reading Plan: Philippians 2:12-18, Isaiah 64

Orikinla: God Himself practices democracy.
He does not force anyone to believe in Him and gives everyone the right to choose.
Remember His words.
[size=14pt]
Come, let us reason together. -Isaiah 1:18 KJV, Holy Bible.

Who is on the Lord's side? - Exodus 32:26, Holy Bible.[/size]

Really? Why didn't he call a Court proceeding for Korah? Why didn't He let Miriam and Aaron put up a defence? Why didn't He wait for human rights group to give a go ahead for the destruction of Sodom? Why didn't he let the children of Israel cast a vote for their King Saul, David etc?

Bidam: I have read what both of you have to say on this issue and i am afraid that i am neither for you both.

Please state clearly your stand.

The type of government drummaboy is suggestion is congregational which places authorithy in the hands of selected members of the local assembly. Church boards usually run these churches. Although they have pastors, it is with a board gathered from among church members that decision rests. The pastor serves at the discretion of the board. You on the other hand is talking about episcopal(ONE MAN RULE) government. All these are patterned after men's tradition and not according to the bible.

Ok

My post talked about Antioch not Ephesus, but i will obliged you. Paul did not leave timothy to run the church in ephesus as a one man rule. Timothy was a co traveller with Paul. Paul was actually afraid of teachers propounding false doctrines in the apostle's name, leaving timothy to oversee these churches was intended to strengthen them in the apostolic doctrine. As you well know the ephesian church was birthed in controversy where magicians, jews that were casting out devils and a large number of idol followers who worship artemis held the city sway. Paul had to assemble the elders before his depature to Jerusalem. You should note that apart from timothy representing Paul when he departed, the churches are having multiplicity of ministries. Paul never coveted anyone silver or gold or clothings. He even boasted about his hands supplying his own needs and that of timothy( Acts 20:34).

Ok

How do i know that these churches have pluralistic eldership? Read Ephesians 4:8; 11-13. These are the Five fold ministry gifts that God has ordained for every local assembly.

Certainly, and most churches I know have these offices... CEC for example has

But am afraid that in modern churches it is non existent.

Give examples or are you assuming?

It is ONE MAN that ascribes all aspects of the fivefold ministry to himself and thus dwell among his people as the earthly representative of God,

That's strange! You sid paul was answerable to the elders in Jerusalem, right? I want to know whether Paul was an overseer of the churches in Asia or not!

atlthough you will not want to admit this,

Why such conclusion?

but the One man show like Moses of the OT has now become the mediator between God and the Local assembly.

If God chose the one man show in the OT, what abolished it in the NT?

This shouldn't be so. God's system should be made of multiple ministries and not episcopal where one man lords it over the laity. A minister is called to SERVE and not to lord it over a congregation.

Your opinion!
Anyway what was Paul trying to say here?

1 Corinthians 4:15 BBE
15  For even if you had ten thousand teachers in Christ, you have not more than one father: for in Christ Jesus I have given birth to you through the good news
16 So my desire is that you take me as your example.
17  For this cause I have sent Timothy to you, who is my dear and true child in the Lord; he will make clear to you my ways in Christ, even as I am teaching everywhere in every church

Get The Power Working… · TUESDAY 12th August ·

And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils…they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover (Mark 16:17-18).

The Lord Jesus never exaggerated; He spoke absolute reality. What He said in our opening verse is something you should consciously demonstrate or prove, knowing that the one who said it, never lied to anyone. You’re to lay hands on the sick to receive healing; you have the ability in the Name of Jesus.

The Lord Jesus will be remiss to ask you to do something you couldn’t do, or for which He hasn’t enabled you. He said in Matthew 10:8, "Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils…." This is for every believer in Christ; step out in faith and take healing and health to the people in your world, and in the regions beyond. Someone might however lament, "When I pray for people, they get healed, but when I get sick I’m not able to help myself."

Many have found themselves in this dilemma. It’s similar to what happened to Elisha who was so anointed of God, but died sick. In 2 Kings 13:20-21, some men were about to bury a man when they spotted some raiders. Hastily, they tossed the corpse into the sepulcher that contained the remains of Elisha. As soon as the dead body came in contact with Elisha’s bones, the dead man came back to life (2 Kings 13:21). This happened long after Elisha was dead; his bones retained the anointing!

Though Elisha died sick, God’s power in him didn’t fail. We can conclude that it was Elisha that didn’t apply that power to his health. You’re supposed to apply the same authority Jesus gave you to heal the sick in your personal life. Christ the Healer lives in you; acknowledge this reality, and function with this consciousness every day. When you do, everything that’s not of God: sickness, poverty, death, lack, failure, depression, etc., will have no hold over you.

Prayer...
  Dear Father, as I study the Word and meditate on the Spirit, your power is activated in me, causing your glory in my spirit to impact my physical body, producing health, strength, and vitality. I walk in victory today, and experience success in all I do, in Jesus’ Name. Amen.

Further Study:
 2 timothy 1:6; Wherefore I put thee in remembrance that thou stir up the gift of God, which is in thee by the putting on of my hands.

2 Corinthians 3:18; But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

1 Corinthians 14:4; He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.

 Romans 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you

1 year Bible reading plan: Romans 14:1-23-15:1-4 Psalms 90-93
2 year Bible reading plan: Philippians 2:1-11 Isaiah 63

Bidam: Lemme take up this debate since drummB is busy with the convention. I am in agreement with the new testament multiplicity of ministry where a set man should also be in place.

There is actually governmental order in the church in Antioch where there were teachers and prophets not just a single pastor ministry as we have nowadays.

I would like to use this gentile church as a perfect example here. This church had a multiple ministry under the directives of the Holy Spirit. Even the Apostle Paul was submitted to its leadership.

Even the so-called "great" apostle Paul was not a freelance minister. He, as all true ministries, fell under the authority of God's government. Paul was held accountable. The church at antioch sent him out and it was to them he reported upon his return. Antioch was not under a church system, but under a multiplicity of ministry. Antioch was a church that was properly taught and one that was in order. It was at antioch that they were first called christians, because it was here that they first learned the disciplines of Christ that required proper church government.

No where in the new testament is someone called "the pastor" of a church with a one-man leadership role. Plurality of eldership is the new testament plan.

They ordained elders(plural), in every church(city)( see Acts 14:23). God always sets a man(set ministry) in leadership who raises elders into their place of oversight.

I don't really get ur stand...DB said God's people should have their right to freedom at all time (a suggestive democratic setting), and that he is against such thing as GO, superintendent, etc. Are you of same page?

But from ur above post, who was the pastor of the church at ephesus, and if the church there was run by elders, why did Paul give him the cousel on criterion on how bishops, deacons and such elders be selected, if there were already elders in the church at ephesus?

DrummaBoy: ^^^

Sorry, while I read your post I cannot respond to it. I believe I have gone past this level of piecemeal bit by bit responses that is common with nairalanders. I request a more robust rejoinder.

You may return to the above post and craft it into one post and then the discission will continue.

OK, please, it's a simple request.

See excuse na! U wrote me an essay, a long one...and I picked what you said and challenged em...and here u go "I have gone past this level of piecemeal bit by bit responses"

I will not return to your post, and if u can't respond to my post, I can understand.

Thanks for your time, I do know u are busy with Grace convention, and since u have gone past some self acclaimed levels on NL, I do hope u find those in your level. Cheers

DrummaBoy: The question that is being sort to be answered here is whether the church practices democracy. And in a case where this not, should they?

The straight forward answer is "No". The church does not practice democracy. I will however want to say that if the church does not practice democracy, should the church allow for autocracy then? Or should church allow for a situation, as in the days of Moses as the OP has shown, where one man leads an organized body of believers? The answer is equally "no".

Can you please relate the above with Paul? Bible Scholars believed he was a sort of bishop. Heading ALL the churches in Asia. He had pastors he raised (see Timothy, Titus et al), had a presiding authority in settling issues in these churches; see his letterd to the Corinthians, Galatians, etc. Was Paul not the general Overseer of these churches?

When we speak of the church of God which Jesus Christ died for, we are speaking of a group of born again people united in purpose with or without a building. In this situation, Jesus Christ is the head of that church. Whatever might detracts from the clear view of Christ's headship should be discouraged. It is erroneous to resort to Moses to get an example of what the church is meant to be.

Moses led the old church, would you say God wasn't completely right with one man leading the flock?

Moses, like Christ after him, where two distinct circumstances permitted by God for specific purposes. After them both, it's clear that God desires a different manner of government in his church. When the people sort for a king from Samuel, a careful observer will realize that God preferred for Himself to rule the people directly.

From the above bold, how does it justify the fact that God had to send Moses to free his people, and still led them, and still asked Moses to raise leaders who'd help him lead the people? The raising of Joshua to follow after Moses etc. If God preferred to rule directly, what then does this verse imply?

Ephesians 4
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 1Co 12:28 [Jer 3:15]
12  For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

And
Hebrews 13
 17 

Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account,

that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

God has always chosen a leader to lead His church

A king will detract from this. But he permitted it to their hurt. However, as we come into the New Testament, we begin to see an example of church government as God originally intended.

Hmmm

In Acts 15, a doctrinal dispute erupted that must be settled. The first ever church council was conveyed and the result of the meeting gives us an idea of who were the leaders. Paul and Barnabas spoke. The Judaizers spoke. Peter and James spoke. This James was the brother of Jesus. He was not an apostle in a strict sense. By his conclusion we could tell that there was a body of elders speaking, while he, James, was a mere spokesman. Remember his words "It seem good to the Holy Ghost and to us..." The decision was a collective one and not a one man show.

In acts 15, how many churches or christians were present? Who led the churches of the gentiles?

When Paul wrote his Pastoral epistles, he encouraged the enactment of a body of elders to lead the churches.

To which churches was he writing to? Churches He didn't plant? He wrote to his brethren, for all sheep has a shepherd, Jesus made that illustration and whosoever that doesn't go through the shepherd to the sheep is a thief. Of course Timothy must need those who'd help him in Ephesus as the church grew, etc

An apostolic authority may have planted the church, but a body of elders must lead the church. So much so that the Pastor should answer to these men.

Who did paul answer to? How many elders did he answer to? But we know Timothy answered to Paul.

In John epistles, he condemned a man who was running a church with the "GO" style - Diothrephes, saying Christians should not emulate such.

Next time don't quote a line just to suit your argument, quote the whole
3 John 1:9 BBE
I sent a letter to the church, but Diotrephes, whose desire is ever to have the first place among them, will not have us there.
10  So if I come, I will keep in mind the things he does, talking against us with evil words: and as if this was not enough, he does not take the brothers into his house, and those who are ready to take them in, he keeps from doing so, putting them out of the church if they do.


Does verse ten now justified your claim that John condemned the GO kinda rulership?

Having at the back of our minds what the NT says about elders leading a church, how do we then regard the things going on in our churches today?

Go on

I am sorry to say but the system of one man leading a church that pervade much of Christianity today is unscriptural.

Relate that to Paul, and please provide scriptures. In his first letter to Timothy, second verse, third chapter, Paul gave directions on how a Bishop should be chosen. The word bishop there is Episkopos which means the superintendent, elder, or overseer of a Christian church

Question! Why did Paul want timothy to have overseers? Remember, Ephesus had a large Christian population!

The church is a body of people. Such a body should be spiritual enough to elect (not in a democratic sense) a number of men (not women) to lead them.

Who elected Paul? Timothy?

If it happens that one man comes up with a vision to lead an assembly, that man must appoint elders to work with him.

Who says the GOs of today doesnt have? RCCG? RCC? WINNERS? Eh?

These men, like when the deacons where chosen in Acts, must be men of faith and of the Spirit. All of them should be answerable to each others.

Who was Paul answerable to?

The church could elect for a constitution;

Thank God u used could...now see where u wanna bring politics into the church?

they may should not.

But a situation where one man is seen as the main figure: GO, GS, SO, etc, should be discouraged.

Provide scriptures

It blurs the sight of Christ being Lord and should not be encouraged.

Now that's now completely unscriptural, and very DBish

A group of elders like this should be praying men, so that when decisions are made from proposed ideas, it would have the mark of God's Spirit on it. The body of elders may appoint a Pastor;

How may elders appointed Titus? Timothy?

they may choose not to. But the fact that the buck stops at the feet of a group of godly men, ensures the cases of leadership tyranny that run riot today do not occur. In a rare case where one man leading a fellowship does not have a body of elders to work with yet, that man should answer to another body of elders elsewhere until one is set up.

Pls, provide scriptures o! This one is completely DB's thought of how a church should be!

The case of Korah's rebellion should not be used as a justification for the one man system of church government.

Because? Or God wasnt right to have chose one man's leadership?

Moses, in the OT, typified a type of Christ or God. Korah's action was a clear rebellion against God. Moses was not autocratic; he was meek and those men sort to take advantage of this. God judged it.

So, in the New Testament, rebellion should be allowed because Christ is here now and we must demand our pastors to play by our rules? Who said Moses wasn't autocratic? Was he democratic? He for example said no one shd marry outside their tribe, but went his way and married an African. Folks protested his breach of the 'constitution' as u want it, when God came, what did He say to Miriam and Aaron? Did God mention anything about the rule? Those men took advantage of his meekness shey? U dey try o

Does this mean that Christians cannot express dissenting views under a body of elders? No. If a believer or group of believers in church have a dissenting view, they should be permitted to express it in private with the elders.

Some folks didn't like the idea of women coming to the church without hair coverings, how did they express the matter? Go consult Paul's 1st letter to the Corinthians church. Where they permitted, yes.... who did they ask? The Jews? Peter? John? Luke? No, they wrote to their Man of God, their GO, even though the church in Corinth had it's own pastor.

The body of elders can listen to their views and they should sit down together like brethren and discuss it. I can assure you, that no ground will swallow any dissenter today in the church like Korah The elders might then decide on the views. If they disagree with this person or group, they should let this known to people like brethren will do. If the dissension continues, the group can be requested to leave the fellowship.

And if such fellow was from CEC or RCCG or such, he comes right to NL, and gives hisnside of the story, and some notable folks here would readily back them up! They know them selves bro!

What must be protected at all cost in church, is freedom and not democracy.

Whats the difference between the two?

The church should be a place where people are accountable to each other. Elder or not, there should be a sense of equality among brethren. So the question of democracy should not come up at all.

How? Remember moses, miriam and Aaron? These were all annointed folks, they were elders, how come there was no sense of equality amongst them?

God's people should be led by a body of elders: men of faith and of the Spirit who are obviously led by God.

Provide scriptures or put "my thoughts actually" after making such statement as above!,

When God leads a church, the tendency for dissension will be reduced. People usually dissent when there are apparent abuses that come as a result of oppression.

Am sure Korah thought of so too.. he felt oppressed too

I make bold to say that God is the author of some of these dissensions to draw the church's attention to it's complacency. Jesus is the head of his church and he has full liberty to express himself through anyone, including a dissenter. God's word, under the auspices of a group of godly elders, should be the final arbiter as it was in Acts 15.

U forgot to add "my thoughts actually"

Let me know whatever disagreement you mat have with the above.

Surely.


Ummm...pls, can you keep the writ a bit short? Thanks

His Headquarters In You- August 11th.

Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
(John 14:23)

I knew a long time ago that wherever I am is God’s headquarters, because Jesus said He and the Father would make their abode in the heart of the one who loves Him and keeps His Word. As I meditated on this several years ago in prayer, loving Jesus became so real to my spirit, and I understood what Paul meant when He said, “For the love of Christ constraineth us…” (2 Corinthians 5:14). What He meant was that our love for Christ compels us.

Colossians 1:26-27 says, “Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.” This is the secret of the ages. This is the key: Christ in you. This was what Jesus meant when He said, “when a man loves me, my Father will love him, and we will come and make our home with him.” You become a Christ-in-you person. Christ takes up His abode in the quarters of your heart. Where will that take you?

Let’s read Colossians 1:28-29: “(Christ) Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Where unto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.” The Apostle Paul understood this and acknowledged that he functioned and operated by the working of God that worked in him mightily.

No wonder he said, “I can do all things through Christ which strengthens me.” With this consciousness, you realize that certainly, nothing is impossible, because anything is possible. It’s all about Christ in you, working in, and through you. You’d never have to struggle for anything, because He’s working mightily in you, causing everything you do to succeed. The secret, however, is loving Him. When you do, He’ll set up His headquarters with you, and your life will be from glory to glory; you'll become fruitful and productive in all things.

Prayer. ..
Dear heavenly Father, I thank you for setting up your headquarters in me, and making me your centre of operation. You’ve made me a success for life, because I love you and keep your Word; I acknowledge your mighty power that's at work in me mightily; and I thank you for your glory in my life, in Jesus’ Name. Amen.

Further Study:
Romans 5:8
But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. ;

2 Corinthians 5:15.
And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

Daily Scripture Reading
1 Year Bible Reading Plan:Romans 12:17-13:1-14, Psalms 89

2 Year Bible Reading Plan: Philippians 1:23-30, Isaiah 62

alexleo: Its not even about bashing catholics. Its about stating and sticking to the words of Jesus and his definition of true worshipers. The words of Jesus is more important to us than any useless satanic fairy tales by Roman Catholic or and denomination whatsoever. I'm already done with the issue long ago. Jesus did not define true worshipers with any denomination. Infact the woman he was talking to in that scripture was placing importance on place of worship and Jesus corrected her by telling her that now it is about worshiping God in Spirit and in truth and not about place of worship. So no need of her going to Jerusalem to worship. Anybody who is telling me about the RCC useless tales of satan is wasting time. Thanks bro.

You welcome!
Thanks for understanding, let's leave em Roman Catholics be and pray for em rather, some folks prayed years ago, and that's why we have the Church outside the Roman Catholic churches... by the way, what's RCC?

Reformed Church of Christ or Roman Catholic Church?

italo: What weak reasoning!

So a celebate man cannot succeed a married man in the Church?

So our past 39 married popes were successors of Peter but the others aren't?

Common, man.

You can think better!

If u could read, you'd have noticed this

Anyways, I'm not here to drag who was or wasn't the pope or what was the first church or who compiled the Bible..

It's either you ignored it or chose to be a bully! Anyways, having known you as the palm of my hand, I won't engage u.

Happy Nineteenth Sunday in Ordinary Time

alexleo: Stop behaving like a thief and a hijacker. Jesus established his church in the scripture without giving it a name and you people hijacked it that its your Roman Catholic Church. LIARS. You people hijacked Peter whom the bible only refered to as an apostle and said he was your first pope. LIARS. You hijacked the scripture and said you compiled it. Why didn't you slot in Roman catholic church, pope and trinity in the scripture if it was from you people? Hijackers and thieves have no place in the kingdom of God. BE WARNED.

It's soon gonna be a Catholic bashing thread... u just shot the first arrow!

Wait for Sal C, Chukwudi44, Ubenecdictus, fancistony... I hope you would be able to endure the soon to come insults and invectives?

And emm Catholics, Peter was not the first pope, if he were why don't popes and priests copy after him and get married? Anyways, I'm not here to drag who was or wasn't the pope or what was the first church or who compiled the Bible.... I'm here to monitor the progress of the said Grace Convention, why? Because it would be a real thread where folks would be appraised by me...what they post there would bbe compared to what they taught in other threads for consistency, and if they are not, I'd make wikileaks look like a child's play!

So, cn u please stop dragging with em Catholics? Nobody's gonna be edified by it, rather, u would get urself soiled, and ruin thus thread much further. Now, I'm not picking on you, I am writing you because u seem reasonable!

Knowledge And Understanding · Sunday 10th August

They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness…I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High. But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes (Psalms 82:5-7).

Our opening scripture describes the pathetic fate of those who are ignorant of God’s Word. They die like mere men, and fall like one of the princes, because of their lack of knowledge and understanding of spiritual realities. However, such folks can experience immediate transformation when they apply the principle for change, which the Lord Jesus taught in Matthew 13:15. It reads, "For this people’s heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them."

What happens when you hear, know, and understand the Word is that the healing power of God works automatically in your life; you’ll function as gods! In Acts 19:11-12, we read that handkerchiefs and aprons were taken from the body of Paul. When those materials were placed on the sick and demon possessed, miracles happened; the demons left; sicknesses, no matter what kind, were healed.

Paul experienced such tremendous manifestations of the miraculous because he had come to know and understand something that others in his day didn’t. It was Paul who wrote what we read in 2 Corinthians 3:18, in our previous study, showing us that the glory of God that was on Moses’ face has come to reside in our spirits. He was the same Apostle who wrote that the Spirit of Him that raised up Jesus from the dead, dwells in you, and has quickened—vitalized—your mortal body.

These would tell you of the understanding of the man, Paul and his comprehension (Greek: sunesis) of the Gospel of Christ. This ought to be your knowledge and understand that the same Spirit that raised up Jesus from the dead, lives in you in His fullness.

Prayer ...
Dear Father, the entrance of your Word gives light to my spirit, producing healing and health in my physical body. As I meditate on your Word, supernatural understanding floods my mind, causing me to live victoriously today and always, in Jesus’ Name. Amen.

Further Study: 
Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Psalms 119:30: I have chosen the way of truth: thy judgments have I laid before me.

1 year Bible reading plan: Romans 12:1-16 Psalms 85-88

2 year Bible reading plan: Philippians 1:15-22 Isaiah 61

JesusisLord85: hahaha 'christian' bullies . It is true what they say about you mods. Will you be presenting, and on what topic? I shall be ready for you.

Word against folly.

Shalom

[img]http://media./media/ftXvsSyRzKXXG/giphy.gif[/img]

Can't wait...

Processor01: @shdemidemi

Sometimes you need to stay humble and listen to others to find out if there's any truth in what they are saying, keeping in mind nobody knows it all. Take corrections and move on, after all, we are all here to learn and not compete.

I might still seem young when compared to some 'big ogas' here but you can bet I have spotted errors in your posts a few times.

One Jesus, one gospel!

apostle shedemidemi thinks otherwise.

get ready to be insulted or taken for a vicious circular spin

The Love Arena -Saturday, August 9th

By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another (John 13:35).

What should matter the most in your life should be your love for God and those for whom Jesus died. This will make you think differently about God and about people. You’ll have a love-language, and not be judgmental towards people. The compassions of Christ will be unlocked within you, and you'll find yourself functioning in higher levels of the anointing. You’ll become a helper and a lifter of others; one who is touched and moved by the infirmities of others, so much so that you want them well.

Love will inspire and compel you to intercede passionately for the sick and hurting, the lost, and also for those who persecute you and have set themselves up as your enemies. Your prayer for them will be from deep within your spirit; that’s the prayer of love; it's unselfish and unconditional. The Word says while we were yet sinners, God demonstrated His love for us: “But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us” (Romans 5:. Jesus died for us, not after we became Christians, but when we didn’t even know God. If He loved us so, in spite of our wrongdoings, we should do the same.

This should be your consciousness; function in love. True faith works by love (Galatians 5:6). Love should therefore be the character of your life, language and expressions. Love isn't a subject to be merely discussed or explained in theory; it’s something to be lived and expressed. Let your heart burn with the love of God, and express it not only to God, but also to those for whom Jesus died.

Prayer. ..
Dear heavenly Father, I love you with all my heart, because you first loved me. Thank you for your love and compassion that burn in my heart fervently, which compels me to pray for and win others to Christ, in Jesus’ Name. Amen.

Further Study

John 14:21
He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

Galatians 5:6
For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.


DAILY SCRIPTURE READING

1 year Bible reading plan: Romans 11:25-36 Psalms 82-84

2 Year Bible Reading Plan: Philippians 1:9-14 Isaiah 60

shdemidemi: Mr chatterbox ...

Be quick about it.. No time for bickering with you, I know how much you delight in petty and trivial banters. I am sure you are a man, based on outward appearance but inward reality makes it clear you are actually a woman.

Everything na double double o

Na so u talk say the Jesus can be traced to Adam, I wonder why babies come on NL, feel belonged to a clique of supposed 'true gospel preachers', they suddenly think the are well sound in the Word. Imagine how silly ur double gospel theory sounds

shdemidemi: What do you know about the gospel of Jesus!!!

Is it not disgusting that we have to hear such foolish and childish things from you?

Take your evil and unchristian doctrine where they belong. No one is interested in your futile, foolish and satanic messages from the pit of hell aka RCC. It isn't a secret anymore that your cult is the devil's most dangerous tool till date.

Let me bookmark this thread so that the very next time u tell me about insults and fights, mi lecture you on honesty and being truthful.

shdemidemi: I tire for the brother..

Even you?

No let me pull threads where u were not only fighting those who did not even talk to u... plus the invectives, insults and verbal excreta?

Let me wait for same solidarity from kunle!

trustman: You sure like fights!!

Thanks for the compliment! You accuse me of liking 'fight' ? You did not accuse Kunle, nor nora... because of course vultures of same bald head flock together!

nora544: I know the bible very good and I know what this new churches make sorry I am not a brainwashed nigerian.

when I hear from a so called great man of [size=20pt]God that all the people who fast for 100 days should not have fear because they will not get ebola[/size] so this is dangerous.

your case is worse than i thought... you love stories eh!

and i find the above in blue a bit racist! dont generalize... Austria has a history with racism, and i dont want to think u are one, this is Nairaland, and not Austrialand.

and you obviously dont know the bible...if you did, you would have read this part

1 timothy 4:7 New American Standard Bible
But have nothing to do with worldly fables fit only for old women . On the other hand, discipline yourself for the purpose of godliness;

your bitterness would not make you a better person ma'am.

nora544: Sorry it is no fairytale, I know this because I [size=20pt]hear [/size]also some [size=20pt]stories [/size]in my country about this new churches and I can [size=20pt]read[/size].

dont you think it's time you stop HEARING STORIES??

Stop reading what does NOT edify your spirit. Get a bible dear... it has so many beautiful stories, start with David and his mighty men, did you Know Adino, one of his mighty men slew 800 men with his spear in a single encounter (imagine you surrounded by 800 men, and all u had was a spear)? Now, that's classical

PastorKun: And did anyone force you to follow this thread Abeg buzz off, your nuisance value is not needed here.

Kunlebola!

alexleo: To him its a personal experience, to some others its interesting and to you its a fairytale. CHOICE.

To you it's an opinion... CHOICE

frosbel: Sorry all, work has become suddenly busy again and I have to do a few things with the kids this weekend. However I will try and complete part 4 at least on the deeperlife experience before weekend is over and perhaps start Part 5. Like I said this may take weeks to complete.

I'm super bored with the fairytale already. Say me hi to em kids

The "More Excellent" Glory - Friday, August 8th

For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory. For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth (2 Corinthians 3:9-10).

Exodus 34 tells us how Moses had been in the presence of God for forty days and forty nights, receiving the “Ten Commandments.” The commandments were few sentences that ordinarily, shouldn't require a whole day to pen down. So, why did Moses stay forty days and forty nights to receive them? It was because, to Moses, they weren't mere “Commandments”; they were life.

Afterwards, as Moses stepped down from mount Sinai, Aaron and all the people looked at him and saw that his face shone with the glory of God, and they were afraid to go near him (Exodus 34:30). There was such radiance of glory, emanating from the face of Moses that he had to use a veil to cover his face, because the people couldn’t stand the glory of God. How did the glory rub off on him that much? It was from meditating on what God said.

Moses contemplated God’s Word so much that he didn't know his face was radiating with the glory (Greek: doxa) of God. The Word of God is where the glory is. The Word made such impression on Moses that it impacted his physical body. From then on, when Moses went to pray, he took off the veil. But when he came out to the people, he covered his face.

The glory we have today far exceeds the glory that Moses enjoyed. We don’t need a veil on our faces; the glory is in our spirits: “But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord” (2 Corinthians 3:18). As we behold the glory of God in the Word of God, we are metamorphosed from glory to glory.


Confession...
My life is the expression of God’s glory, grace, perfection, beauty and righteousness. The excellence and virtues of divinity are manifested in, and through, me in ever-increasing splendour! I’m continually transfigured from glory to glory, by the Spirit, as I behold the glory of God in the Word, in Jesus’ Name. Amen.


Further Study :

Psalms 82:5-7
5 They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course. 6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
7 But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.

Matthew 13:15
For this people’s heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.


Daily Scripture Reading:

1 year Bible reading plan: Romans 11:1-24 Psalms 79-81

2 year Bible reading plan: Philippians 1:1-8 Isaiah 59

Kenny4lyfe: Check out this thread too sir!
https://www.nairaland.com/1386645/dangers-christian-criticism

wow! nice job...wooooow

alexleo: Bro there are some teachings of Hagin that are also not consistent with the scripture. Before his death he wrote a book(can't remember the name) to correct some of the errors. There is nothing wrong about someone receiving more light in scriptural application except you want to be hypocritical about it. That your pastor gave a scriptural interpretation hundred years ago and remain on it doesn't mean that he is right. Did you see the Bereans going back to the scripture to search if what Paul taught them was in alliance with the scripture? But the christianity of our time is the one that whatever pastor, G.O. Pope etc says you swallow it without raising objection over the annointed man of God's teaching. But again some people are begining to realise that it shouldn't be so. Your pastor remains a human, you don't even know when his preaching/teaching is propelled by the Holy Spirit and when it is propelled by his personal interest, ego, whims and caprices, greed, level of exposure etc. Hence the need to make your research too. I believe that scriptural issues shouldn't be a one man decision thing. Its something that brethren should reason together.

Please try and employ paragraphs in your posts.....it makes reading easier

Thanks for your opinion though!

alexleo: On this issue of medication, the church based its stand on James 5:14. Of a truth, many have experienced healing of various sicknesses through prayers without medication(including myself and family members) over the years. Many have had similar sicknesses and even worse ones than yours and they got healed through this means. Also there are some who had similar cases as yours and even less cases than yours and they went to hospital and still died after several efforts to restore them. So its not as if there is any of the medium that has recorded zero death in its history. However a few years ago some of us started seeing other places in the bible that shows that God can heal us through any means contrary to the one rigid means we were made to follow. Some of the present crop of leaders also have a liberal approach now to this issue so it is no more an offence for a member to take medications. However some oldies are seeing it as end time things (lol ) and they ve refused to join us. My parents have been in this church for almost sixty years now without taking medidcation and God has been healing them in time of sickness. They are old now yet stronger than some youngies and look younger than their ages. Iin 2012 my dad was terribly sick that we thought all hope was lost, there was nothing we didn't do to convince him to take medication but he refused and the church kept praying for him and he was totally healed. Today if you see him walking briskly and travelling here and there you won't believe this was the same man that was near death 2 years ago. There are a lot of them like that too in the church.
In recent years when some of us began travelling overseas we now discovered that the headquarter church in the U.S. never said people shouldn't take medication rather the baba(Oshokoya) that brought the church to naija in the 1930s had to place that ban because what was in vogue in those days was babalawo. This was my own findings and some others too. Well like I said, no church is perfect, no individual is perfect, we keep perfecting as we study the scripture more and more with the help of the Holy Spirit. For me I know these old leaders did whatever they did to the best of their understanding of the scripture at their time and I don't blame them. There are things we are doing now that the generations following us will see in their time and consider it foolish or inappropriate. [size=20pt] Yet we are doing it to the best of our knowledge now.[/size] There are some of your new discoveries/ideologies now that you ll look back in some years to come and pick a lot of holes in them. Such is life. The room for improvement is the largest room in the world. It cannot be fully saturated. Thanks frosbel.

Bros, form the bold, whatsoever happened to Jesus, the same yesterday, today and forever? Do your Holy Spirit change?

All Hagin, Kenyon etc taught in ages past were consistent with the scriptures, today... and will be, ALWAYS.

And as for the enlarged... Peter was saying in his 2nd letter chapter 1 verse 21
Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

How did you arrive at "Yet we are doing it to the best of OUR KNOWLEDGE now. "

DrummaBoy: Sorry Gombs I must decline the offer to enter this discussion. I am presently prosecuting two major threads on this forum and would not be able to give this thread the sort of attention it deserve. Maybe some other time but not today.

As for the subject of the thread, my opinion on it is well documented in a couple of posts I have made in this forum. Those interested may search them out.

I believe you will find one person who shares my position and who might be able to engage you in the manner the thread deserves.

I request to be excused.

dont worry bro...I can wait.

Grace Convention would come and go, this would remain... thanks for the apt response. I'd be waiting for you

https://www.nairaland.com/1847318/does-church-god-practice-democracy#25301020

drummaboy...meet me there, or run with your tail between your legs.

folks have over time on several threads here erroneously think the Church as it were in the bible (old and new church) practiced democracy. They tend to think everyone has a right to an opinion at ALL times, and makes it look like a cooperate federal organization.

The church of God DOES NOT practice democracy, it is not the church of the people, by the people and for the people. Paul instructed in his letter to the Romans verse 4, Chapter 15.

Romans 15:4English Standard Version (ESV)

4 For whatever was written in former days was written for our instruction, that through endurance and through the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope.

Korah's Rebellion proves completely that the Church DOES NOT practice democracy.

Korah, one of the rich leaders of the Levites, and a cousin of Moses and Aaron, felt that he had been slighted and overlooked in the distribution of the highest priestly honors and leadership. He envied Moses and Aaron, and also his cousin Elzaphan, who had been put in charge of the Levites, after Aaron's family had become elevated to the rank of Kohanim (Priests). Realizing that despite his riches and influence he alone could do very little to shake the people's faith and confidence in Moses and Aaron, Korah looked for associates in his campaign against them.

Korah went to the people of the tribe of Reuben, his neighbors in the camping order. Being daily in close contact with them, Korah easily swayed the opinions of their leaders and drew them into his conspiracy.

Amongst the Reubenites were two men, Dathan and Abiram, who since their early days in Egypt had been trouble-makers and the ringleaders of disaffection and rebellion. They were the first to rally to the party of Korah, and they were his most eager agents among their tribesmen. Their experienced and clever campaigning, aided by Korah's riches, influence, and knowledge, induced as many as 250 respected leaders of the Jewish camp to join the rebellion.

They now felt bold enough to go out into the open and speak up against Moses' leadership of the people. Adopting the mantle of piety and justice, and pretending to be a champion of his people, Korah accused Moses and Aaron of imposing their leadership upon the community. "You take too much upon yourselves, for the entire congregation are all holy, and the Lord is in their midst. So why do raise yourselves above the Lord's assembly?" said Korah (Numbers 16:3) and his men to Moses and Aaron.

the story ended terribly for him and his crew.

what about Miram and Aaron Against Moses?

what about Baalam?

what about ...?

so many examples to offer. But why then would folks think it should be practiced in today's church?

Drummaboy made a remark in similitude to the above in a thread, and to avoid derailing that thread, i'm creating this one, for him to come defend what he said on the other thread.

DrummaBoy:

One day, many years ago, I was reading Acts 15, the place were the apostles sent letters to the church in Antioch to tell them that they need listen to the Judaizers about circumcision. They should follow a certain minimum and they were OK. scripture records somewhere there that the people were happy. I could see relief too in that passage, the very thing Candour is describing here. Acts 15:30-31 - " ... and when they had gathered the multitudes together, they delivered the epistle: which when they had read, they rejoiced for the consolation". God knows how much more he wants his people to rejoice over, which church leaders prefer to bind people up in misery with.

One of the biggest disservice church leaders can do to a flock is, in their bid to protect the flock, to then begin to list out dos and donts for them. It leads to bondage. When eventually truth is pointed out, relief and joy comes.

Should God's people not have a right to relief, joy and freedom all the time? Should churches bind up people in a bid to protect them? Is God not sufficient to save and keep safe till the end?

Forgive my Lamentations. I cannot help it sometimes.

https://www.nairaland.com/1842233/pentecostal-experience/3#25291956

i expect a civil discussion with DB on his above statement and Why he is against General Overseers , Senior Pastor , etc for he is toeing the line of Korah!

DrummaBoy: The church should not operate a democracy. The church should not even contemplate a theocracy . The church should NOT operate an autocracy. And many of our churches are doing a good job at this.

i disagree...u kinda mixed up the two.

# We have a system of one man government; where this man is the General Overseer, General Superintendent, Serving Overseer, or Senior Pastor. The church should never operate a system of elders.

is the above bold biblical? i hope u r being sarcastic thus far?

Its totally unbiblical and anywhere this is mentioned in the New Testament, the bible must have made a mistake.

now, i'm struggling to hang on

God's all time will is for one man to head his body the church. That man should not be Jesus; that man can be the Pope. And how well Pentecostals are emulating Catholics in this regard.

now i can say u are well confused or sheer sarcasm?

# The church should never operate a democracy; talk less of a theocracy.

talk less or talk more?

We should never allow people to think for themselves, lest they make eternal mistakes. We must set up committees in church to take care of marriages, naming ceremonies, ordination, and burial. Never you permit the laity to worry themselves about thinking on these things. The government of church should think for them.

#The church should not operate a democracy but an autocracy,

sacasm huh?

where people are instructed on how to use their finances. First and foremost, people must TITHE for the church to run its autocratic government. Then, they can begin to give other free will offerings. They should not also forget the firstfruit. The church of Jesus is a military barrack and needs a despot in human flesh to head it.

;



#

The church is not a democracy o and anyone that wishes to speak his mind should get out!

the above sentence reminds me of one blogger in his mid 40s... a funny story i tell u, i read you love stories, i could help you with this blogger's story

"When we started this ministry, where were you? Now you want to give us opinion. To hell with your opinion. The church is not a democracy".

i've told you to consider a job in stand up comedy

I hope you got the answer you wanted, Gombs?

yeah... i did... dont ever try to bring democracy into the church. it is the the church of the people by the people and for the people.

now, shall we get back on track and listen to frosbel's fairytale? or open a thread and invite me...or on second thought i will invite you...ama open one now