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 Christianity Etc › Re: My Pastor Saw Me Staking Baba Ijebu Lotto And. . . by Goshen360(m): 2:48pm On Oct 15, 2012 |
[quote author=Lord_Reed]Taking a chance or playing a chance game is not a sin. What the bible explicitly condemns is cheating and greed, characteristics which hovers around gamblers so much so gambling is now synonymous with them. Visa Lottery is a taking a chance to be selected much the same way a job interview would work so unless you can manipulate the process or use it for selfish ends, applying for the Visa Lottery is not a sin. Lottery in general are not sinful activities; simply entering into a chance to be selected for a prize does not make you a sinner.[/quote] Zikkyy: Well said. What I observed is that most people are not able to relate biblical command to activities undertaken in the course of relating with their environment.Very Good. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Third Heaven by Goshen360(m): 2:44pm On Oct 15, 2012 |
Reyginus: we are.~Hug~....abi na handshake?.......  |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Can Tithing Teachers Help Us Explain These Verses by Goshen360(m): 2:43pm On Oct 15, 2012 |
frosbel: at least we can agree on something !~hug~, we agree on MOSTthings......except for.......(fill in the gap), 1 Like |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Do Pastors Pay Their Tithe ? by Goshen360(m): 2:39pm On Oct 15, 2012 |
rhemaplus: Goshen: I have followed u for a while now, especially on tithe issues. The way u convey ur truth is not holistic. Truth should be said in love n not to show knowledge or by mockery. Yes, it is true that no one pays tithe the way it is done in the O.T; yes, it is also true that old testament tithe is mainly crops and not monetary but to assert that for this reasons people should not pay tithe is not borne out of Love. You said anyone who pays tithe is under curse, not true. The bible made it clear just as u have quoted it that only those who THINK that by keeping the law would they be made right are under the curse. It is not the act that makes u under the curse but the motive. The Law is good, infact the reason the law was set aside was not cos it wasn't good, The law is perfect in itself, the only problem it had was that it was our inability to keep it. The truth I think we should preach is not that people should not pay tithe, rather that God does not curse a man cos he doesn't pay tithe. Except we want to be hypocritical, in as much that I don't believe that tithe should be mandatory, I believe it should be paid. Abraham did without anyone telling him, I can choose to do the same as far as I believe it is a way by which I can contribute to the progress of the local church I attend. What should be the big deal in that? Leave people to their consciences and stop puncturing it. If u have knowledge, remember, not everyone does in the same proportion. The church should not threaten with a curse for the defaulters cos Jesus has been made curse for us and Jesus said, look at the birds of the air, they don't sow nor reap and are fed, how much more will he do to us and also pls, stop polluting people's mind not to pay for If they do, it is not a sin and if they do in faith, it would be accorded unto them as righteousness.I will respond intensively later because I might go offline for a while to return later. Meanwhile, thanks for "some" useful advice. brb. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Is This How You Observe The Shabbath? by Goshen360(m): 2:31pm On Oct 15, 2012 |
My dearest sister plappville, I want to believe much had been said by others on this thread. A Christian is NOT bounded by the Sabbath. Besides, I believe (from scriptures) that the Sabbath is a type and shadow of believers rest in Christ in which same Sabbath was fulfilled in Christ because He said, He is the Lord of the Sabbath (Matthew 12:  . The Sabbath that was foreshadowed was fulfilled in Christ.A Sabbath-Rest for the People of God 1Therefore, since the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us be careful that none of you be found to have fallen short of it. 2For we also have had the gospel preached to us, just as they did; but the message they heard was of no value to them, because those who heard did not combine it with faith. 3Now we who have believed enter that rest, just as God has said, “So I declared on oath in my anger, ‘They shall never enter my rest.’” And yet his work has been finished since the creation of the world. 4For somewhere he has spoken about the seventh day in these words: “And on the seventh day God rested from all his work.” 5And again in the passage above he says, “They shall never enter my rest.” 6It still remains that some will enter that rest, and those who formerly had the gospel preached to them did not go in, because of their disobedience. 7Therefore God again set a certain day, calling it Today, when a long time later he spoke through David, as was said before: “Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts.” 8For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day. 9There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; 10for anyone who enters God’s rest also rests from his own work, just as God did from his. 11Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will fall by following their example of disobedience. Hebrews 4, New International Version You might find those verse very useful. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Do Pastors Pay Their Tithe ? by Goshen360(m): 2:11pm On Oct 15, 2012 |
swtchicgurl: goshen360 and pastor kun, u guys baffle me with your analyses of the Bible.Very Good! You just shot yourself in the leg..... . Since Jesus ALREADY FULFILLED THE LAW, WHY SHOULD WE STILL TRY TO KEEP IT  ............ . Grace is truth my sister. For Grace and Truth came by Jesus Christ! 1 Like |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Can Tithing Teachers Help Us Explain These Verses by Goshen360(m): 2:05pm On Oct 15, 2012 |
Zikkyy: Tithe as commandment was brought to an end, with plenty of scripture verse to support this. What that means is that rendering of tenth is @ the discretion of the individual giving it. It's no different from other form of giving. What is a crime is the pastor teaching tithe as commandment. Tithing as preached today is the creation of man [size=15pt]and influenced by greed.[/size]New International Version (©1984) For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs. [size=15pt]But you[/size], man of God, flee from all this, and pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, endurance and gentleness. 1 Timothy 6:10-11 1 Like |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Can Tithing Teachers Help Us Explain These Verses by Goshen360(m): 1:59pm On Oct 15, 2012 |
frosbel: which is why it is our duty to put Jo and co out of business ![size=15pt]GBAMM! +1,000, 000 plus points![/size] |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Do Pastors Pay Their Tithe ? by Goshen360(m): 1:51pm On Oct 15, 2012 |
Pastor Kun: Read hebrews 7:5-19 with special emphasis on verses 11,12,18 & 19 there you would see the scriptures were tithing was anulled for christians. It was also described as a weak useless and unprofitable law."1.This Melchizedek was king of Salem and priest of God Most High. He met Abraham returning from the defeat of the kings and blessed him,2and Abraham gave him a tenth of everything. First, his name means “king of righteousness”; then also, “king of Salem” means “king of peace.” 3Without father or mother, without genealogy, without beginning of days or end of life, like the Son of God he remains a priest forever.4Just think how great he was: Even the patriarch Abraham gave him a tenth of the plunder! 5Now the law requires the descendants of Levi who become priests to collect a tenth from the people—that is, their brothers—even though their brothers are descended from Abraham. 6This man, however, did not trace his descent from Levi, yet he collected a tenth from Abraham and blessed him who had the promises. 7And without doubt the lesser person is blessed by the greater. 8In the one case, the tenth is collected by men who die; but in the other case, by him who is declared to be living. 9One might even say that Levi, who collects the tenth, paid the tenth through Abraham, 10because when Melchizedek met Abraham, Levi was still in the body of his ancestor. 11If perfection could have been attained through the Levitical priesthood (for on the basis of it the law was given to the people), why was there still need for another priest to come—one in the order of Melchizedek, not in the order of Aaron? 12For when there is a change of the priesthood, there must also be a change of the law. 13He of whom these things are said belonged to a different tribe, and no one from that tribe has ever served at the altar. 14For it is clear that our Lord descended from Judah, and in regard to that tribe Moses said nothing about priests. 15And what we have said is even more clear if another priest like Melchizedek appears, 16one who has become a priest not on the basis of a regulation as to his ancestry but on the basis of the power of an indestructible life. 17For it is declared: “You are a priest forever, in the order of Melchizedek.”a 18The former regulation is set aside because it was weak and useless 19(for the law made nothing perfect), and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God" - Hebrews 7, New International Version Pastor Kun: Also read deut 14:22-29, there you would learn that the church definition and practise of tithes is very wrong. Wld have posted the scriptures here myself but I am using my phone. Would appreciate if any brethen using a laptop could help post those scriptures here."22Be sure to set aside a tenth of all that your fields produce each year. 23Eat the tithe of your grain, new wine and oil, and the firstborn of your herds and flocks in the presence of the Lord your God at the place he will choose as a dwelling for his Name, so that you may learn to revere the Lord your God always. 24But if that place is too distant and you have been blessed by the Lord your God and cannot carry your tithe (because the place where the Lord will choose to put his Name is so far away), 25then exchange your tithe for silver, and take the silver with you and go to the place the Lord your God will choose. 26Use the silver to buy whatever you like: cattle, sheep, wine or other fermented drink, or anything you wish. Then you and your household shall eat there in the presence of the Lord your God and rejoice. 27And do not neglect the Levites living in your towns, for they have no allotment or inheritance of their own. 28At the end of every three years, bring all the tithes of that year’s produce and store it in your towns, 29so that the Levites (who have no allotment or inheritance of their own) and the aliens, the fatherless and the widows who live in your towns may come and eat and be satisfied, and so that the Lord your God may bless you in all the work of your hands". - Deuteronomy 14 New International Version There you have it! 2 Likes |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Do Pastors Pay Their Tithe ? by Goshen360(m): 1:40pm On Oct 15, 2012 |
As a matter of biblical truth........ANYONE WHO KEEPS PAYING TITHE IS UNDER A CURSE. The word of God is true. No wonder there are many tithe payers in church and yet, poverty abound. Have you asked yourself the reason behind this tragedy? The word of God gives us/you an answer,Galatians 3:10 New International Version (©1984) All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law." New Living Translation (©2007) But those who depend on the law to make them right with God are under his curse, for the Scriptures say, "Cursed is everyone who does not observe and obey all the commands that are written in God's Book of the Law." Friends, you see one of the problem with the law is, if you MUST obey or follow the law, you must obey/follow EVERYTHING. There are many things contained in the law that we don't practice today. In fact, the law was NEVER written to Christian (Gentile believers in Christ) according to Romans 2:14. You tell these preachers that the law says the wayward children should be stoned to death, they will tell you we are under the Grace and we cannot do that no more. Tell these preachers the law says adulterers and fornicators should be stoned to death, they will tell you we are NOW under Grace. Why are we NOT under Grace ONLY when it comes to tithe. Besides, biblical tithe was NEVER from MONEY even though money existed since Genesis, it was ALWAYS crops and animals and even that biblical tithe had ended with Christ and in Christ as contained in Hebrews chapter 7. Not everyone in Israel was commanded to tithe, ONLY those involved in crops and animal. Jesus as a Carpenter didn't tithe because he didn't produce crops and animal. Peter, Paul etc NEVER tithed because they never produced crops and animal. Friends, NO ONE, I MEAN NO ONE PAYS OR PRACTICE GOD'S BIBLICAL TITHE TODAY. What you have in the church system is modified and twisted version of God's biblical tithe which itself had ended. 1 Like |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Christ And The Four Thieves by Goshen360(m): 1:17pm On Oct 15, 2012 |
Great thread! Thanks bro. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Third Heaven by Goshen360(m): 1:08pm On Oct 15, 2012 |
I have not added to "God's word" bro. We are both explaining thoughts sir. If we both agree there are three heavens which makes the claim of the OP about "third" heaven established, then we are fine. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Do Pastors Pay Their Tithe ? by Goshen360(m): 1:04pm On Oct 15, 2012 |
[quote author=U-Get-Sense]Plz enlighten me on how GOD HAD CHANGED/NULLIFIED THE LAW OF TITHING. I realy wan2 knw cos I want biblical proof 2 stop tithing. I prefer giving my 10% to d poor[/quote]Read Hebrews Chapter 7: It refers to tithing as it relates to Abra(ham) - The Pre-Law Tithing (Heb. 7:1-4). Then it goes on to Tithing ACCORDING to the Law. That is as COMMANDED in the LAW with the Levi (Hebrews 7:5-6). Furthermore, It compares both tithing act (Heb. 7: . Again, the writer then SPIRITUALIZED Levi paying tithe into the act of Abraham paying tithe BUT we KNOW that Levi who are the priests were not commanded to pay tithe BUT to receive or take tithe according to same writer in verse 5.The writer therefore went further declare the priesthood being changed MUST necessitate a change of law. Now the question is WHAT law? Is it the whole law or law of tithing which the writer says in verse 5, "have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law"? If you either or both, it will still lay a fundamental truth of verse 12 which states, when the priesthood is CHANGED, there MUST be a CHANGE in law also. Therefore, this change MUST affect the law of tithing. This is where change is effective! Hebrews 7:11-12 is where it was CHANGED! The same writer nailed the discourse and declared tithing NULLIFIED in Heb. 7:18-19 (after introducing us to a better priesthood in Christ, vs. 13-17) in which verse 19 explains verse 18 better. It says, "For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof". The ONLY commandment "going before" that the writer ever told us in "context" is found in verse 5 and the writer clarifies in verse 19 that this commandment is "according to the law" of verse 5. Finally, the writer continued to draw us deeper to Christ from verse 19-End and says, we don't draw closer to God through or by the law BUT by or through Christ. God used the law to train the Israelites in the way of obedience. The Church was NEVER under the law at any time. Since the law had done its job, it ended in Christ and with Christ. 2 Likes |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Do Pastors Pay Their Tithe ? by Goshen360(m): 12:28pm On Oct 15, 2012 |
flairlady: please are there churches that dont pay tithes in Nigeria?Yes! I know of many even in the USA......You want PROOF |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Do Pastors Pay Their Tithe ? by Goshen360(m): 12:28pm On Oct 15, 2012 |
tpapi: see dis confused atheistWho told you am an Atheist For record purpose, I am a Christian, not just by mouth but in truth and in spirit. 1 Like |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Do Pastors Pay Their Tithe ? by Goshen360(m): 12:25pm On Oct 15, 2012 |
plappville: C'est normal, Ils n'ont rien en commun. je devais te dirigé vers le lien du sabbat que j'ai créé.D'accord. Maintenant je comprends ce que tu racontes sweerie. Je participerai au fil - Meaning: Okay, now I understand what you talking about. I will attend the thread. Pastor Kun: Zikkyy: They were discussing in tonguesNo be only discussing in tongues.....we dey "toast" ourselves in tongues.......hehehehehehehe |
| Christianity Etc › Re: My Pastor Saw Me Staking Baba Ijebu Lotto And. . . by Goshen360(m): 5:22am On Oct 15, 2012 |
Abeg make I ask one kweshion here o.......what about playing America Visa Lottery......Is it gambling Is it a sin Should a Christian get involved in such 1 Like |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Third Heaven by Goshen360(m): 5:13am On Oct 15, 2012 |
Reyginus: Sir, the problem is, we are building an arguement where their should be none. ....maybe because I love to add "flavour" or because my life is "flavoured" by the word. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Do Pastors Pay Their Tithe ? by Goshen360(m): 5:10am On Oct 15, 2012 |
plappville: Pourquoi tu m'engage pas au sujet du Sabbath? J'aimerai bien que tu viens me montre un passage dans la bible par raport au Sabbath. Stp.Ce qui a Sabbat a à voir avec la dîme? Je ne comprends pas votre quête ma chère chérie sœur. |
| Romance › Re: Court Weddings Vs Church Weddings by Goshen360(m): 5:03am On Oct 15, 2012 |
Johnsinia: u r totally out of point. There may nt b a commandmt on marriage bt there was teaching thru d inspiratn of d holy spirit 2 his servants on dat. Dnt 4get paul teachin on marriage.Am afraid you are NOT talking scripturally. Paul's teaching on marriage doesn't say a Christian should explicitly do church wedding. You can do ANY type of wedding depending on your financial power but NOT compulsorily in church even as Christian. If you have two or three witnesses in a wedding, you are married. Am not condemning church marriage, don't get me wrong. Am saying, there is no one type of marriage a Christian MUST do in order to make it a better marriage. Even marriages done in church do crumble. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Can Tithing Teachers Help Us Explain These Verses by Goshen360(m): 4:55am On Oct 15, 2012 |
Image123: hahahaha, see as Jo dey tutor my people this Sunday school. cool stuff. have you paid your tithe?Brother, with respect....what tutoring is Joagbaje giving to us? You and I have debated this subject in the past. All scriptural evidence abound till this day. God's biblical tithing (crops and animal) had even come to an end, not to talk of monetary tithing! |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Do Pastors Pay Their Tithe ? by Goshen360(m): 6:46pm On Oct 14, 2012 |
Joagbaje: A pastor is first a christian . He must practice what he teaches. If he teach on fasting and prayer ,he should be number 1. Same goes for evangelism ,intercession and giving. He does this as a believer not as a pastor. 80% pastor earn salary from jobs and businesses . Only few are into full time ministry , and most of them may have allowances or salary. They should pay tithes as others.Okay....maybe we might engage in debate soon....after you respond on the other thread, indicating your interest for a debate. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Can Tithing Teachers Help Us Explain These Verses by Goshen360(m): 6:44pm On Oct 14, 2012 |
Joagbaje: Tithing was never brought to an end. There's no single scripture that's says that .Are you ready for this debate .....we can continue it from tomorrow because I might going somewhere very soon. Are you ready for this |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Do Pastors Pay Their Tithe ? by Goshen360(m): 6:20pm On Oct 14, 2012 |
Joagbaje: Yes pastors do pay tithe. Some pay it in their church ,others psy it to another ministry they are submitted to.There is no such practice with/within the NT among the Apostles. Imagine the ministry of Timothy doing this to the ministry of Apostle Paul OR Paul doing this to Peter etc......hehehehehehehe 1 Like |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Can Tithing Teachers Help Us Explain These Verses by Goshen360(m): 6:12pm On Oct 14, 2012 |
Joagbaje: Pastors didn't change it to money. People still gave money in bible days , as tithes , they gave money equivalent of the value of wounded animals etc. people still give tithes of material things today. People mostly give cash because it's a general medium of exchange . Israelites were primarily farmers. Their proceeds were usually used for services in the terbernaclre. I can give material thing as tithe. A laptop dealer can give laptop as tithe since the church may need it. Same goes for generator or give money equivalentVery good. What then shall we say when this biblical tithe (crops and animals) was brought to an end.....why do Pastors still teach it and even after changing it to monetary tithing. Are you to say you yourself don't know or have the understanding that tithing was brought to an end |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Third Heaven by Goshen360(m): 6:03pm On Oct 14, 2012 |
^^^ I still can't figure out our argument sir. Is it that there are not "three" heavens as described in the bible or "creation of these three heavens" |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Third Heaven by Goshen360(m): 5:46pm On Oct 14, 2012 |
Reyginus: I understand that sir, but following the angle you are coming from, their is no agreement.We can as well say God had a beginning then. Do you agree or disagree When we say "the beginning of creation", we refer to creation as it relates to OUR world or universe. This, we know had a beginning BUT God do not have beginning. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Can Tithing Teachers Help Us Explain These Verses by Goshen360(m): 5:42pm On Oct 14, 2012 |
Joagbaje: It's a sin to judge others intention wrongfully. If you claim those who Belive in tithe are wrong Based on your own belief no problem. We all have right to what we Belive . but if you claim those who teach on tithing are fraudulent. You are sinning. Because no man will use the name of God for fraud. Every one work according to their conviction. Every man has right to his conviction . A man who serve christ with wrong motive should be left for judgement day . Tithes or church money doesnt belong to the pastor. A pastor is not a tithe collector . The same way bank money doesn't belong to the bank manager. When you miss the basic foundation here all your conclusion will be wrong too. People give tithes based on their understanding and they should not be persecuted for their belief .Absolutely right but these Pastors knows the truth but rather will not teach the truth. Biblical tithing was NEVER money - Very clear from the scripture. So when pastors changed it to money, What are they doing .......do you mind telling us |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Third Heaven by Goshen360(m): 5:37pm On Oct 14, 2012 |
Reyginus: The question is not where He created from, but whether heaven 'was' present before the beginning?There is absolutely nothing deviating from my initial post. Maybe we are not understanding one another. Heaven, the abode place of God "was" and existed BEFORE the beginning of heavens - the outer space and the firmament. Is my point clearer now |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Third Heaven by Goshen360(m): 5:23pm On Oct 14, 2012 |
Reyginus: Are you still arguing based on the bible as you said earlier?Kindly make your point very clear sir. Creation is Visible and Invisible. When something is NOT seen (invisible) with/by the natural eyes doesn't mean it doesn't exist. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Third Heaven by Goshen360(m): 5:20pm On Oct 14, 2012 |
Reyginus: You are saying that before God ever created, heaven was ?Before God created . Created what We are talking about when God created our own heaven and earth, that we can see and explore which is visible. Where does God created from? From the same heaven and earth that He created for us |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Can Tithing Teachers Help Us Explain These Verses by Goshen360(m): 5:14pm On Oct 14, 2012 |
Joagbaje: Tithing is to God. It's part of worship. But the donation or contribution you mentioned here was for. Brethren who were struck but financial hardship.And what tithing is to God, money, crops or animals Not everyone in Israel is to tithe BUT Everyone is to GIVE. Even the biblical tithing as commanded by God (crops and animals), had been ended and disannulled by God NOT to talk of the changed version (money). Teaching and telling God's people to tithe their monetary income is called extortion in the name of God. |
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