₦airaland Forum

frosbel: Who gave him the authority to give life is the question you should ask yourself ?

The mere fact that the word First born of creation is used means he was created.

God himself was never created and cannot be referred to as the first born of creation.

And you still didn't answer the question.......CreatION and creatURES, which one was Jesus called firstborn of

frosbel: Why is JESUS as the SON of GOD not enough for you people

Peter called him Son of GOD , Paul called him Messiah and Mediator, Nathaniel called him Messiah , Jesus called himself Son of MAN and even demons call him Son of the most High GOD.


Yahweh himself says this is my beloved SON with whom I am well pleased.

Why is this not adequate for Trinitarians ?

You are trying to usurp Yahweh from his throne and place his SON there, what blasphemy !!!

Jesus is not GOD , he is the SON of GOD.

If you are gonna share the revelation of Jesus Christ, you gat to share the whole, not some parts. To mention but few, even Jesus is called the "lamb" of God......we can as well say he had four legs as a lamb......The Father, Yahweh even called Jesus God, you forgot to share that revelation also...........

frosbel: Now that we have over flogged this trinity dogma, I think it is time to discuss JESUS and his specialness and uniqueness in the entire universe.

When asked who do you say that I am , Peter called JESUS the Son of GOD or Messiah , Nathaniel called him Messiah and even demons called him Son of the most high.

Jesus is not just another prophet like Muhammad or Buddha, he is the first born of creation , firstborn from the dead, the Son of GOD but also the Son of MAN, the Lord of Lords and King of Kings over all the angels and kings on earth and in heaven, he is the righteousness of GOD , the slayer of the serpent, our redeemer, the lover of our souls, and he is the judge of mankind.

Jesus gives life , this command he received from the father, the father has put him in charge of everything but when the final end comes , Jesus will deliver the kingdom to the father that the father may be all in all.

No man or woman or angel can be compared to Christ , he has hated iniquity and loved righteousness, he has a far more excellent name than even the angels and he is indeed the lamb that was slain before the foundation of the world for the purging away of our sins. He is the one that rejoices over us and joins us in the praise of his father where 2 or 3 are gathered together in his name.

He was born through a virgin, found himself as a MAN and took the path of opposition to the system of this world, he rejected the favour of the world , the delicacies of evil and refused to submit to the pleasures of sin for a season.

Let us be clear. JESUS is unique , no one can be compared to him, all the rest who are so called prophets are thieves and robbers, they try to steal the souls of men through the back door or even windows , but Jesus came through the front door, the exact representative of GOD and he only is the right way to enter into kingdom of GOD.

JESUS Christ is the ONLY WAY , TRUTH and LIFE.

1. Since Jesus gives life........Who then is he
2. Firstborn of creatION and firstborn of creatURES......Are they the same

frosbel: Goshen you can why sometimes I do not engage you in debates, you accuse me of trying to nullify the deity of JESUS, this is just a wicked assertion that has no truth whatsoever.

Jesus is divine by the mere fact that he was begotten directly by the Spirit of Father GOD and that he now sits exalted above all powers and authority in heaven and earth.

If you look at the title, it says pre-existence of JESUS.

Thanks.

Frosbel, stop making me "feel" like I have said something wrong. You even started a thread and said "Jesus is NOT God" while scriptures say otherwise. What then shall be refer your statement of "Jesus is NOT God" to Here is you are saying Jesus is divine......"by mere fact that he was begotten directly by the Spirit of Father GOD and that he now sits exalted above all powers and authority in heaven and earth". NOW, the question is, is this your statement the ONLY basis that scripture says Jesus is divine or that scripture also says Jesus is God

frosbel: Brothers, now that we have [size=20pt]almost[/size] annihilated the Trinitarians , we can now properly, honourably , lovingly and brotherly discuss the pre-existence of Christ.

This is just for information, the most important baseline is that we believe Jesus is not Yahweh.

Now we will prove that Jesus was either begotten through Mary or before the supposed incarnation.

We can agree to disagree honourably and I trust that we will keep to this virute and not behave like the Trinitarians.

Personally , I believe that Jesus was begotten when born through Mary , let us discuss and also use scripture to elaborate.

Thanks,

Thank God it is "Almost" BUT not "completely".......... . I debunked you on the other thread and you are on the run, you didn't return to that thread. Go back to that thread or I continue to debunk you here..... Whenever you are on hot seat on one thread, you run to start another one and abandon the former. You are only doing your best to nullify Christ and Holy Spirit of the Trinity of God......keep trying bro, we are here to respond to you.

Boomark: Colossians 1:15-17
New International Version (NIV)
The Supremacy of the Son of God

15 The Son is the image of the
invisible God, the firstborn over all
creation. 16 For in him all things
were created: things in heaven and
on earth, visible and invisible,
whether thrones or powers or
rulers or authorities; all things have
been created through him and for
him. 17 He is before all things, and
in him all things hold together.

I believe Jesus existed before He became flesh on earth.

He is the firstborn of all creation. There are other things that were created but He was brought forth first by the Father personally. That is Why He is the only begotten son of God and the first to be created by God.

The angels and so many other things were in existence when He become flesh but v16 made us to understand that all these things that were in existence when He was still in Mary's womb were created through Him and for Him.

v17 says that He is before all thing. Which means He was there when all other things were created.

Pastor Kun: @Frosbel
I think you should set the tone for the discussion cause this is the first time i am hearing it being suggested by christian that Jesus christ did not pre-exist before his incarnation here on earth. To the best of my knowledge there are several scriptures which make it clear that Jesus existed in heaven before coming down to earth so the onus is on you to tell us why you think otherwise.

Frosbel is trying to hard to NULLIFY the deity of Jesus Christ. On the front sit, grabbed my pop corn and patiently waiting......

ATMC: bro goshen, how about u start a thread on d exposition of hebrews 7...i'm interested

At your honour my dearest sister, I will start the exposition on Hebrews chapter 7.

Enigma: ^^^ He don run away from questions on about four different threads now. Shey because we jus do like say we no see!

Na sooo. I guess he learnt that trick from "some" CE members wey I no fit mention their "names". As you said on that thread, "those" CE members had since run away.....rightly they might show up in December.

@ Enigma......Great job you have been doing. I don tire for Frosbel jare. I gave him a "logical" test on the other thread and he can't even prove himself. .....am out of here, got other things to do joor.

ATMC: As d spirit leads!

Amen to that my sister......Glorrrrrry to God. As many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. Amen somebody!

Fhemmmy: I cant blv this thread is still growing . . . Lol, that is nice and i am glad to see that only matured people are on the thread, no mudslinging

I can see you have tried so well to misguide God's people into this false teaching of title. Even the biblical tithe (crops and animals) had come to an END in the NT, NOT to mention tithing from one's "monetary" income. Telling Christians to bring 10% of their monthly income every week/month (other than them giving what God had put in their heart) as tithe is Fraud and extortion in the name of God. Also, NOT EVERYONE IN ISRAEL TITHED DURING THE TITHE OF CROPS AND ANIMALS. Jesus, the Carpenter NEVER tithed because he didn't produced tithable items. Peter, Paul and other Apostles NEVER tithe because they didn't produced tithable items. GOD NEVER DEMANDED TITHE FROM CHRISTIANS IN THE NT SIR.

@ Everyone,

[size=15pt]Hebrews 7 nullified tithing BOTH PRE-LAW AND TITHING ACCORDING TO THE LAW (i.e the biblical tithing of crops and animals), not even monetary tithing from one's income.[/size]. We can do an exposition verse by verse on Hebrews 7, it is eternally clear that even the biblical tithing (crops and animals) is GONE and NO MORE! God now demands giving which is based on Grace!

Are you talking about "degrees and titles" such as mine - Pastor (Dr.) Goshen360 Apotieri.com Phd OR Rev. (Dr.) Goshen360 Olori're.com Phd ......If this is what you're talking about....at least we agree on MOST things.

frosbel: I am not here to win pal.

The Trinity is a PAGAN Idol, period.

God is indivisible, Lord Jesus is indivisible and the Holy Spirit is simply God's Spirit, himself.

Truth must be said and this is most essential to the proper understanding of scripture.

You follow the Pope with his Trinity dogma, we will follow ONE GOD and our saviour Christ JESUS.

Brother Frosbel, do you know the reason why am still with you, discussing topics such as this with you

King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
For you have need of patience, that, after you have done the will of God, you might receive the promise. Hebrews 10:36

He that believes MUST not make haste! Glory to God

swtchicgurl: Goshen360, i'm surprised you avoided my previous post and still continued your erring analyses. anyways, God help you.

What post did I avoid? Kindly re-post by quoting it and let me address it ma. I'm sorry if it's an over sight. I might not have intentionally avoid it. Kindly re-post it and let me address it. Thank you ma.

frosbel: God is not going to judge us because we did not get a few doctrines right .

God will judge us according to how we conducted ourselves on this earth in speech, thought and action or what we have done in and with our bodies. Read God's exhortation regarding this in Romans 12:1-3

If our speech , thoughts and action are in rebellion to God , we can get our doctrine 100% accurate , but still be cast into the lake of fire for the second or eternal death.

God is looking for those who will worship him in Spirit and Truth, not those who are 100% theologically correct. You can be right with your theology and walk in the flesh and quench the Spirit of GOD.

The litmus test of a Christian is :

1. Do I Love the Lord God with all my substance
2. Do I love my neighbour as myself.

Your thoughts !!!

So you know this

^^^ eagerly waiting for Frosbel........

damilarelr: That means Abraham wasn't practising the LAW when he paid tithe to Melchizedek, am I right?

As if I know exactly what is buried inside your question....Yes, you are right BUT the answer to that is also buried in Hebrews 7 because it taught tithing BEFORE the law AND tithing "according to the law".....am I right about that .......

Mcdondayan: In as much as i wish to reach out to those in need, tithing is necessary.

What tithe are you talking about that it is necessary? Crops and animals If that is what you are talking about, then it will make biblical sense. If not, you are mixing the law and Grace together and such is against the NT Christianity.

Mcdondayan: But i feel it doesnt make sense to take huge sum of money to the church when you have many poor people around.

This, you have said it eternal truth. Go thy way and act as a Christ-like Christian. God bless you.

Great post brother. Fear can torment someone towards suicide in life. God had not given us the spirit of fear.

Glory to God!

frosbel: My honest opinion is that GOD is Spirit but he pours his holy spirit upon his children and angels , it is his power , active force , infuence etc.

If I read scripture I just cannot see anywhere God is depicted as having 2 Spirits, he is a being, the supreme being and is indivisible into any number talk less 3.

One thing I have come to charactise with the spirit of God in my life is :

1. small still voice
2. the quickeing of verses of scripture that would have otherwise made no sense.

No aspect of GOD can be seperated from him and assumed into a different being, let us be careful , everything we believe or profess has to be scripture backed.

I await your next question

By the way , did you read the article I sent you ?

You fully agree that God CANNOT have spirit just like we human do have spirit. What this means BUT you don't want to agree is that, the Holy Spirit is distinct from the Father. In case you still are not clear, let me use "logic" to confuse you the more (or convey my the truth I want you to see from scriptures) with this scripture and you will see how using logic can be dangerous to the interpretation of scriptures. Take a look at this scripture and let use logic for now and we come back using scripture-to-scripture interpretation rather than logic,

New International Version (©1984)
How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death, so that we may serve the living God! - Hebrews 9:14

Using logic (bearing in mind that God, the Father is Spirit), this scripture will read thus:

"How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God Spirit, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death, so that we may serve the living God Spirit!

I have replaced "God" with "Spirit" (since God is Spirit) as shown in "RED COLOUR", you have it above........How does this scripture read to you, Frosbel Does it make sense by logic ...............

damilarelr: @Goshen360, did Abraham live under the LAW or GRACE?

He lived before the law.......

@ plappville,

Amen to that my sister!

frosbel: Yes .



God is Spirit



God is Spirit



How can a Spirit have a Spirit ? Common does this even make sense to you ?



A Spirit is a Spirit , so asking the question in the first place is flawed.

Frosbel, I do not intend to "force" my teaching into you as some have accused me of doing BUT All I want you to see or reason out is the truth behind the Holy Spirit being distinct by laying down the evidence of the truth. If/Since you said a Spirit CANNOT have a spirit That is, God being Spirit cannot still have a spirit like man having spirit. It is eternally evident that the Holy Spirit is NOT God's spirit as you teach. Holy Spirit is distinct. I don't know if my point is very clear to you, there is nothing flawed in my question.

@ OP,

Even some false tithe teachers will tell you that when your neighbour is dying and a poor person need help so desperately, they will tell you you must still bring your tithe to the church. There is nothing like tithe to Christians in monetary form. If you have money and God speaks to your heart to help the poor, do it graciously and cheerfully. This way, you are an angel sent to another man.God will reward you.

If you also decide to give certain portion of your income to help the poor cheerfully, God bless you for such but it doesn't necessarily have to be 10%, it can be more or less or even vary from month to month. I have seen where it is written "God loves a cheerful giver" my brother but I am yet to read where it is written "God loves a cheerful tither" because tithe is "by force" but giving is "by grace, willingness and cheerfulness"......Glory to God!

Glory to God....."Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest" (Matthew 11:28 )......"For if Joshua had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. There remains therefore a rest to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest, he also has ceased from his own works, as God did from his". - Hebrews 4:8-10

Let the Adulterers come! Let the thieves come! Let the fornicators come! Let murderers come! Let the Homosexuals come! Let the gays come! Let the Abortionists come! Let all the sinful men and women come!......come! come!! come!!!

Glory to God!

frosbel: The Holy Spirit is not separate from GOD , it is part of HIM, I guess you missed this point all along.

The point we , and I in particular have been trying to make is that God is ONE , He is Spirit as Jesus rightly said , and therefore the operation of his Power and Purpose throughout the universe and especially in creation is by himself or should we say his Spirit.

The problem with you trinitarians is that Satan has blinded you to the idolatry of the Trinity.

How can God be divided into 3 and still be called 1.

This is the strong delusion that was prophesied to happen by Paul , it is so strong , that even rational educated people believe in the gibberishness of it's logic.

Frosbel, I have asked you this same question several times BUT you always dodge the question anytime I ask the same question. I will ask those questions again,

1. God is Spirit .....right ?

2. Since God is Spirit. Can God being Spirit HAVE a (S)spirit?

3. If we can prove that God being Spirit can have a spirit or Spirit, then we can biblically conclude that Holy Spirit is God's spirit like a man having a spirit.

4. If you or we CANNOT prove from scriptures that God being Spirit can have spirit/Spirit, then it is eternally scriptural that the Holy Spirit is distinct from God who we know is Spirit.

Over to you Frosbel, Can Spirit (in this case, God) still have S(s)pirit

rhemaplus: You still missing out something that is vital. In that Gal 3, u will see that the emphasis is not on deeds but on motive. Vs 12: The law is not based on faith; on the contrary ' the man who does this will live by them'. The only people under curse are those who think they can only live by doing (the legalist not those who live by faith). The overall theme of Gal 3 is salvation. How do we receive salvation? Is it by keeping the law or receiving it by Grace cos if u keep the whole law minus one, u are still under curse I.e you can't be saved by it. It is not referring to people who are already saved. No saved person is under any curse. and infact Doing isn't the problem but trying to earn righteousness by doing the works of the Law. No one is justified(declared righteous) before God by the law. You said Abraham wasn't justified by paying tithe; was he condemned by doing so too? Its just like Restitution of Zaccheaus, in as much that we can not make law out of it, but u cannot condemn anyone who chose to restitute out of conviction and faith. Do u seriously believe that God would condemn a man that pays tithe and does it in faith; not because by it, he wants to earn God's favour by just as a worship to him. Do u? What u are doing is taking the truth too far. The only truth I see is that we cannont live(be righteous) by works of the Law, no more, no less. I have heard of a preacher who when he was young believed he had to sell all he has if indeed he must be a disciple(not believer) and he did. Would u condemn him for doing that? When he did it out of faith and conviction? God deals with a man according to the level of knowledge and conscience, u wonder why paul didn't say people should not puncture the conscience of those who believed they must not eat things sacrificed to gods, although, it is not sin if they do but do u know if they ignore their weak consciences and go ahead to eat it, do u know that will be the beginning of the damage of their consciences? Stop imposing your supposed truth on the mind of people. If a man eats and does to the glory of God, let not the man that does not eat castigate him. I may decide to make use of the dietary commandment of God, by so doing, are u implying that by doing it I am sinning or under the curse, when I do it as unto the Lord?. Bro, don't be too hasten to form a doctrine. God does not condemn tithe just as he does not condemn restituition, and so many as far we don't think that by it we will go to heaven. Salvation isn't by work but by grace. What I think you should focus more on is 1. Letting people know that not paying tithe does not bring any malachi curse cos Jesus is already made a curse for us, so they can choose to pay or not 2. How to be led of the Spirit so as to know when he leads you to give and to which course rather than expending ur energy on what I think its not necessary!

My brother, it's no beef at all. I have shown you many truth from scriptures and you have also shown me many truth. I do no intend to continue this back and forth. On the contrary about your notion about me - imposing my knowledge on other. I have been accused of this many times especially when the truth hit some folks. I have NOT commanded people NOT to pay tithe BUT I laid down the proof and evidence that it was never meant for Christians in the first place. Even the biblical tithe (crops and animals) and those it was originally/only meant for HAS ENDED not to mention the monetary greedy tithing. This is what I will continue preaching until the truth hit the whole body of Christ. If you like accuse me of imposing my teachings on people. What about those who subtly threaten with curse and demand monetary tithe from Christians? Are they not the real ones imposing their teachings on others In all said,

"Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes". - Romans 10:4

All over the scriptures, it is written those who are telling Christians to obey the law (which was NOT written/given to Christians in the first place and even to the Jews, the law had ended) are killing the Grace of God that was given through Christ.

Image123: He is stating the simple truth in plain format. God's Word has not come to an end.
2Ti 3:16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
ALL SCRIPTURE remain given by inspiration, and profitable for doctrine and for instruction. The issue is never with the law, for the law is good and holy. The issue is with what we do with the law. In the OT, the law was kept to be righteous. In the NT, it is discovered that you can't keep the law. You have to first be righteous, then keep the law. Until each person understand these basics, there will continue to be/remain a stumbling and a veil. It has already been shown in other threads that Leviticus made provisions for giving tithe in monetary form. All the gra gra people are doing here, and trying to confuse people that tithe is meant to be eaten by the owner is incomplete and misleading information. they are not too different from the ones they accuse as scammers and frauds. i hope to rest my case.

Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa, Egbon mi. You wan start again! I wan go sleep abeg. When I wake up and still catch you with this talk, we go enter am again...... but make I leaf you with this scripture sir,

Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes. - Romans 10:4

Christ is the end of the law. The rest na reason why Christ is the end of the law....."so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes".

[quote author=Mr_Anony]@Plaetton,

I have read your Op but then, I am not quite clear exactly what it is you want to discuss. For us to have a proper discussion and not argue pointlessly, let me suggest to you to properly define your argument. Perhaps, you can list in bullet points outlining exactly what your position is.
Also, I think it will be a good idea to define the limits of the scope of this topic and what authorities will be acceptable to you. Basically, what I am requesting is that you give the topic some structure and then we can proceed.[/quote]Seconded! About to write same.

Mintayo: may God forgive you!
Pls stop this heresy,no body paying tithe is under a curse but those that don't pay!
It is not obeying the law that bring curse but it is BELIEVING that you can be right with God by obeying the law that bring abt curses!
TITHE IS NOT A DEBT YOU OWE BUT A SEED YOU SOW!

Malachi 3:10 is not a law but a direct WORD from the Lord Himself!

Pls stop misleading pple with this your 'curse and law things',it is wrong!

And pls as a christain,why not seek God's face on these instead!

Obviously you also omitted the second part of that scriptures. The second part of that scripture says,

for the Scriptures say, "Cursed is everyone who does not observe and obey all the commands that are written in God's Book of the Law." - Galatians 3:10

rhemaplus: Goshen: I have followed u for a while now, especially on tithe issues. The way u convey ur truth is not holistic. Truth should be said in love n not to show knowledge or by mockery.

I have always said the truth of God's word in love my brother. The reason I "sometimes" mock people is when they try to prove what they don't know. It is some people that actually mock their selves in their statements. Hence, I show them their lope holes.

rhemaplus: Yes, it is true that no one pays tithe the way it is done in the O.T; yes, it is also true that old testament tithe is mainly crops and not monetary but to assert that for this reasons people should not pay tithe is not borne out of Love.

Since you KNOW the truth in my teaching, why don't you stand for the truth. The truth has no substitute sir. Every Christian that knows the truth of God's word are called to be an Apologist and our main functions are:

1. Proof the truth
2. Defend the truth
3. Refute those who oppose the truth and
4. Persuade others to come to the truth......because only the truth can set people free while falsehood keeps people bound in shackles and hardship.

My brother, please stand for the truth if you KNOW it.....like you said. On the contrary, to teach people the truth of tithe is what is borne out of love. Are you saying those who teach false teaching of monetary tithing are those teaching it out of love They have subtly manufactured monetary tithing which is not the original and biblical tithing as you said. Even the biblical tithing as we know is gone! Only giving is taught to the NT church and therein is the truth.

rhemaplus: You said anyone who pays tithe is under curse, not true. The bible made it clear just as u have quoted it that only those who THINK that by keeping the law would they be made right are under the curse. It is not the act that makes u under the curse but the motive.

You deliberately left out the second part of the scripture I quoted and only took unto the first part. If you are referring to the first part of that scripture, how about the second part for the word of God is a two-edged sword. The second part says,

"for the Scriptures say, "Cursed is everyone who does not observe and obey all the commands that are written in God's Book of the Law." Galatians 3:10.

I just said what the word of God said. This is the issue with the law - when the whole (ALL) is NOT observed or obeyed, the scripture places such under a curse. It is NOT the curse of Malachi 3:9-10 that put a Christian under curse for it wasn't written to a Christian in the first place BUT the curse of picking "some" aspects of the law to obey and the ones not to obey. It doesn't work that way.

rhemaplus: The Law is good, infact the reason the law was set aside was not cos it wasn't good, The law is perfect in itself, the only problem it had was that it was our inability to keep it.

What you have said here is half truth. To add to it, Christians (Gentiles believers) are NEVER under the law in the first place. It was the Jews and the bible makes it very clear. Even at that, the law was to train the minds of the Jews in obedience and to bring them to Christ. Since christ already came, the law had finished its course and ended. Why tell Christians to keep the law they were NOT given to them. The ONLY laws given to Christian is the law of Christ and it is called the law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus. Take a look at this,

New International Version (©1984)
(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. Romans 2:14

New International Version (©1984)
To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God's law but am under Christ's law), so as to win those not having the law.

New Living Translation (©2007)
When I am with the Gentiles who do not follow the Jewish law, I too live apart from that law so I can bring them to Christ. But I do not ignore the law of God; I obey the law of Christ. - I Corinthians 9:21

New International Version (©1984)
So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith. Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law. Galatians 3:24-25

New International Version (©1984)
Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.

New Living Translation (©2007)
For Christ has already accomplished the purpose for which the law was given. As a result, all who believe in him are made right with God. - Romans 10:4

rhemaplus: The truth I think we should preach is not that people should not pay tithe, rather that God does not curse a man cos he doesn't pay tithe. Except we want to be hypocritical, in as much that I don't believe that tithe should be mandatory, I believe it should be paid.

It is the false tithe teachers that teach that people are cursed when they don't tithe. The truth you still need to understand is NOT whether it is compulsory or not, it is that it was NEVER commanded to Christians. Even the crops and animals tithe that was commanded to the Jews had ended and nullified as recorded in Hebrews 7. If you still believe it should be paid, then you are contradicting scriptures and should also teach people to obey other laws as commanded, NOT just tithing but also, animal sacrifice, stoning people to death etc.

rhemaplus: Abraham did without anyone telling him, I can choose to do the same as far as I believe it is a way by which I can contribute to the progress of the local church I attend. What should be the big deal in that? Leave people to their consciences and stop puncturing it.

Truth, as Abraham did it WITHOUT ANYONE TELLING HIM. Very Good. Sir, you need to sit down and really digest Hebrews 7. What Abraham did was "spiritualized" with what was commanded to Levi and both nullified. Abraham wasn't justified by paying tithe sir in that he was rich before his act of tithe. These men of God says tithing is what makes you rich and bless. This is heresy!

rhemaplus: If u have knowledge, remember, not everyone does in the same proportion. The church should not threaten with a curse for the defaulters cos Jesus has been made curse for us and Jesus said, look at the birds of the air, they don't sow nor reap and are fed, how much more will he do to us and also pls, stop polluting people's mind not to pay for If they do, it is not a sin and if they do in faith, it would be accorded unto them as righteousness.

Our worship to God should be seasoned with truth. The men of God who teach tithing from people's income are the ones who threatens people with curse and not telling them to obey other laws. What we do as an Apologist is to open the eyes of those who are willing to follow the truth. It is NOT polluting people's mind not to pay, it is opening their eyes to the truth that they are not meant to do such practice in the first place and not to talk of the curse they are being threatened with. My brother, follow Christ and forget this false tithe teaching for its foundation is Greed and the love of money.