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 Christianity Etc › Re: @frosbel, Who Is Jesus Christ? (re: A Proposition For Theological Debate) by Goshen360(m): 1:58pm On Oct 10, 2012 |
frosbel: [size=15pt]Only God has been eternal without beginning, Jesus Christ had a beginning.[/size] Goshen360: Third, you just made a heretic statement that Jesus had beginning. This has constituted your recent attack that made you say he is NOT God. Let's start to test your statement with scriptures....I start with first scripture and you can explain to us how Jesus had beginning - Hebrews 7:3Frosbel, where are you ooooooooooooooooooo |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Put Your Hard Questions For Trinitarian Theologians Enigma , Goshen & Company by Goshen360(m): 1:49pm On Oct 10, 2012 |
@ Enigma and Frosbel, Please, let's stop personal attack and insults. Let's handle the word with grace given unto us and be mature in our dealings/talking to one another. There is no need for insult and personal attack in order to teach the truth and lay down evidence. We are all adults, please. Thank you. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Put Your Hard Questions For Trinitarian Theologians Enigma , Goshen & Company by Goshen360(m): 1:46pm On Oct 10, 2012*. Modified: 2:03pm On Oct 10, 2012 |
frosbel: You are answering questions with more questions of your own ?Bros, when and how did I answer kweshion wif kweshion  I have simply stated what the bible says and this is what I intend to defend. If we can PROVE the Father is God from the bible, Jesus God and the Holy Spirit God, then you will understand better at the end. The question of "How this, how that" will then be answered. You are not the first person that God will defile his/her logic - Mary had once asked, How can this be since I don't know a man? However, I will enter logic and scriptural debate with you when we start to prove the bible wrong. Again,Does the Bible teach/says and calls the Father God? Does the Bible teach/says and calls Jesus Christ God? Does the Bible teach/says and calls the Holy Spirit God? 1 Like |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Put Your Hard Questions For Trinitarian Theologians Enigma , Goshen & Company by Goshen360(m): 6:26am On Oct 10, 2012 |
frosbel: My first 2 questions : ijawkid: Lol..... frosbel: There is not one prayer or song or exclamation addressed to the Holy Spirit in the Bible, neither is there one precept in all the Bible authorizing such prayer or song. Nowhere in Scripture are we told to love,honour, or worship the Holy Spirit, or to pray to it for assistance. Why, if it is a person, like the Father and His Son? plappville: My Question is this, Does Jesus now know when he is coming back?, because trinitarians claim He didnt know because He was Man when he said so. Boomark: With the work we have been doing, i know most of them are now getting the gist. Pastor Kun: Apparently trinitarians are trying to tell us Jesus is a liar cos Jesus made it clear on several occasions in very clear terms that the father is greater than him and he can do nothing without the father. If only trinitarians know how much damage and ridicule they have brought to christianity maybe they would recant their steps. For instance prior to the start of islam christianity was the prevalent religion in the middle east. One of the things that made people turn against it was the ridiculous trinity doctrine, mohamed the founder of the Islamic faith who also believed in christ biggest problem with christian teaching then was trinity. If not for the ridiculous doctrine he might not even have started his on religion and maybe all the crisis we are having in the middle east and northern Nigeria today would not be happening.Y'all SAVE ALL your questions. Trinity or no Trinity and let's start by proving the word. Hence, proving all thing or else we all make the bible a liar. Does the Bible teach/says and calls the Father God? Does the Bible teach/says and calls Jesus Christ God? Does the Bible teach/says and calls the Holy Spirit God? New International Version (©1984) Test everything. Hold on to the good. New Living Translation (©2007) but test everything that is said. Hold on to what is good.......1 Thessalonians 5:21 If we can prove the above three questions.....we can then come to a reasonable conclusion that we know in parts and should be able to educate ourselves biblically. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Put Your Hard Questions For Trinitarian Theologians Enigma , Goshen & Company by Goshen360(m): 5:57am On Oct 10, 2012 |
My job here just like my brother Enigma and I believe and stand by same bible truth. I am not here to defend the word "Trinity" as it is NOT found in the bible but the concept is what I will defend as a bible truth. The concept says (if you permit me, without the use of the word "Trinity"), The Father is God, Jesus is God and the Holy Spirit is God. If Frosbel is attacking Trinity as a doctrine because the word doesn't appear in the bible, that is fine and okay with me BUT what I wont watch Frosbel attack is the deity of Christ and the Holy Spirit as God. This is what I intend to defend here on this thread. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: @frosbel, Who Is Jesus Christ? (re: A Proposition For Theological Debate) by Goshen360(m): 5:29am On Oct 10, 2012 |
frosbel: Goshen and Enigma, can you kindly respond to this THREADThere is nothing arrogant about avoiding the post. You just recently added my I.d. to that post. I have honoured your invitation. Get ready to get swim in scriptures. You have called on the giant in me......I will give it to you.  . See you on that thread and this one also. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Put Your Hard Questions For Trinitarian Theologians Enigma , Goshen & Company by Goshen360(m): 5:23am On Oct 10, 2012 |
Make e no be like say we dey fear or run away........Goshen360 is here even as Enigma is here. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Did God Know Sin Would Exist After Flooding The Earth? by Goshen360(m): 10:49pm On Oct 09, 2012 |
Image123: my bros, how you dey?Bros mi, I dey find o.....E be like say some "people" don dey start to call on the giant in me lately. I know you perceive "those" am talking about.....lolz. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: @frosbel, Who Is Jesus Christ? (re: A Proposition For Theological Debate) by Goshen360(m): 10:40pm On Oct 09, 2012 |
frosbel: Let me quote John 1 v14.First, I had to quote you because I will later use your words against you. Second, Who is this "Word" that became flesh? What was he called in John 1:1-2? Your error is that you take Christ as literal or spoken word. If this is what you interpret, then you yourself can as well speak the literal God's word from the bible and let's see if it becomes flesh (human). The "W"ord with uppercase "W" is a name or title of Christ in heaven WITH GOD, which the NT calls the Father before the Father sent him into the world (earth). Third, you just made a heretic statement that Jesus had beginning. This has constituted your recent attack that made you say he is NOT God. Let's start to test your statement with scriptures....I start with first scripture and you can explain to us how Jesus had beginning - Hebrews 7:3 New International Version (©1984) Without father or mother, without genealogy, without beginning of days or end of life, like the Son of God he remains a priest forever. New Living Translation (©2007) There is no record of his father or mother or any of his ancestors--no beginning or end to his life. He remains a priest forever, resembling the Son of God. Now @ Frosbel, we will mind to tell us what you understand by this scripture 1 Like |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Is Melchizedek God Almighty? by Goshen360(m): 6:15pm On Oct 09, 2012 |
ijawkid: Goshen my bro.......well don jare.....You are a great brother also. Keep following peace with all men and holliness without which no man shall see God. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Is Melchizedek God Almighty? by Goshen360(m): 6:14pm On Oct 09, 2012 |
ATMC: ...but bible called him king of salem ie peace and called christ prince of peace, then christ said god is his father...and i ask is a prince not d son of a king? If yes, could it be dt melchizedek is a mystery?He is NOT a mystery. He was divinely set apart to foreshadow Christ as a type just like First Adam was also a type and Eve was a type of the church. He was the first King and Priest and this was fulfilled in Christ. Believers are also King and Priest taking after Christ. Like I said earlier, Melchizedek was used as a type in two different ways by the writer of Hebrews, Goshen360: Also, Melchizedek in Hebrews 7 was used by the writer in two ways namely: |
| Christianity Etc › Re: The True Gospel by Goshen360(m): 6:09pm On Oct 09, 2012 |
frosbel: WRONG !!Frosbel, na wha for you o. I cant seems to figure out your recent attack on the deity of Christ. From the mouth of two or three witnesses, the truth will be established. More than three scriptures calls Jesus Christ God. What then is your problem with that? I think you need to re-assess your recent attack on the deity of Christ. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Did God Know Sin Would Exist After Flooding The Earth? by Goshen360(m): 5:57pm On Oct 09, 2012 |
Image123: @opGreat! |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Is Melchizedek God Almighty? by Goshen360(m): 5:55pm On Oct 09, 2012 |
truthislight: beautiful.Brother.....haven't I been teaching the truth? Just because we disagree on "some" issues doesn't mean we both lie. It means we both presented the evidence of a subject based on our knowledge which is progressive; for the scripture says we know in part. We should learn to listen to one another. You are welcome my brother. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Haters Of Grace - How The Law Keepers Deny Christ By Exalting The Law by Goshen360(op): 3:32am On Oct 09, 2012 |
Rom 8:3-9, For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded [is] death; but to be spiritually minded [is] life and peace. Because the carnal mind [is] enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. We are not ministers of the law- your 2,000 years too late. Look at what we are told to be ministers of "who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away, how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious?" (2 Cor 3:6-8 ) Religion is always threatened by Jesus' teaching on grace, it challenges our work to be righteous. Any additions destroy God's grace toward us, and adding the law that was made obsolete certainly is that which destroys grace. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Haters Of Grace - How The Law Keepers Deny Christ By Exalting The Law by Goshen360(op): 3:26am On Oct 09, 2012 |
But they like the Judiazers wanted to add Christ to what is established, even though Jesus said he did not come to pour new wine into old wineskins. Do they know that they are rejecting his work by insisting that the Sabbath must be kept along with the other laws? Some do; their leaders certainly do, many of the followers do not. Heb 7:12 "For the priesthood being changed, of necessity there is also a change of the law." The change of the law was necessary - how, why? Because there was a new covenant that did AWAY with the OLD covenant. Heb. 8:13 In that He says, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away." If you believe in the gospel you are attached by a covenant to a whole new system. The gospel is found in the Old Testament but it is hidden, as a mystery until it was revealed by the apostles. So we have a different system to live by. We had to wait for the one to come who fulfilled all the law and the prophecies. It is He who takes us out from under the law and its penalties and put us in Christ and in grace. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Haters Of Grace - How The Law Keepers Deny Christ By Exalting The Law by Goshen360(op): 3:23am On Oct 09, 2012 |
The Pharisees, law keepers hated the new covenant introduced by the one they crucified. One of the main reasons is because it opened it up to the Gentiles. They want to reject 2/3 of the New Testament because of their prejudice against grace found in Y'shua. Much like the heretic Marcion did in the beginning of the church. They love the law over the one who gave the law and made the new covenant of grace. Luke 24: Jesus refers to the Scripture, telling them because he died and rose again, repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem." And then tells them he will send the Promise of the Father, they are to wait in the city of Jerusalem." It began among the people that first rejected Jesus. In the book of Acts we a see a transition of those being under the law to grace, from the old covenant to the New Covenant. We are told Grace and truth came through Jesus Christ- law keepers do not want grace or truth because grace means one would be in the new covenant without the Old Testament laws and the truth means they would disregard the old covenant to hold to the new by the gospel. |
| Christianity Etc › Haters Of Grace - How The Law Keepers Deny Christ By Exalting The Law by Goshen360(op): 3:21am On Oct 09, 2012 |
There are those who are very vocal about Paul being a false apostle. There reason is that he no longer adhered to the law and taught grace. That he was liar and was inventing false religion. Even though Luke records that Barnabas took him into the church. Did Luke lie in the book of Acts about the churches history and Paul's influence? Then Peter lied when he wrote in his second epistle 2 Pet 3:15-16 saying, And account [that] the longsuffering of our Lord [is] salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; As also in all [his] epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as [they do] also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. They say Paul was false but the fact is they are the liars. The Jews continued to live under the law that rejected the new covenant under their messiah Y'shua. Despised and rejected by his own, of whom Saul was once one of them. "Saul... filled with the Holy Spirit.... Immediately he preached the Christ in their own synagogues. And this was soon after Stephen was killed by the Jews, Saul was also present consenting to his death. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Is Melchizedek God Almighty? by Goshen360(m): 12:28am On Oct 09, 2012 |
Also, Melchizedek in Hebrews 7 was used by the writer in two ways namely: 1. The Historic Melchizedek and 2. The Prophetic Melchizedek |
| Christianity Etc › Re: A Proposition For Theological Debate by Goshen360(m): 12:15am On Oct 09, 2012 |
frosbel: lolOkay....I can rest now....because the high tension wey I carry come online today no be small thing o. Na to come debunk you and refute your new unitarian theology.....  . E be like say Holy Ghost don minister to you make you perceive say I dey vex no be small....... . Anyway, I await your call. Thank you bro. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Is Melchizedek God Almighty? by Goshen360(m): 12:11am On Oct 09, 2012 |
No, he is NOT God Almighty.....he is a MAN that was used and positioned in the divine act to foreshadow Christ as a type in the OT just like Joseph, Moses, Adam etc. English Standard Version (©2001) See how great this man was to whom Abraham the patriarch gave a tenth of the spoils! Heb. 7:4 matrix789: Heb 7:3Without genealogy is the key here. In Israel, when someone doesn't have a genealogy, such is considered without father, without mother, having neither beginning of days (birth) nor end of life (death). But was made LIKE the son of God, Jesus Christ. He is NOT Jesus Christ also but a type of Christ as he foreshadows Christ in the sense of being a Priest and King at the same time. In Israel, no king is priest and no priest is king at the same time but this MAN was. But Jesus in his human form or nature has genealogy, has beginning of days (birth record) and also record of death. The reference to "but made like the son of God" is to the eternity of Christ because in Christ eternal nature, Christ doesn't have beginning nor end of life. 1 Like |
| Christianity Etc › Re: A Proposition For Theological Debate by Goshen360(m): 11:52pm On Oct 08, 2012 |
frosbel: okay , let us continue tomorrow.Of course I have concern and you are not making me happy at all. That is why I decided I want to debunk and refute your theology.....lolz Okay. I will email you NOW and possibly if you can call me on phone so we can talk and I will tell you my concern as a brother. I guess we will end up resolving on phone....if you can still call me today or now. Thank you. Kindly check your email now. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: A Proposition For Theological Debate by Goshen360(m): 11:42pm On Oct 08, 2012 |
frosbel: Brother you know me, I shy from no one, I even called you once , remember , I still consider you a brother.Okay, no problem....can we do the debate here then At your response, I will ask the same question that will kick-start us into the debate. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: A Proposition For Theological Debate by Goshen360(m): 11:39pm On Oct 08, 2012 |
ijawkid: I'm not saying us refers to the angels...I was only trying to prove that elohim(Yahweh) was the one who said let us make man in our image..Okay, Now I understand you. You are a wonderful brother. Nice talking with you. I don't think we should go ahead on the issue of the Holy Spirit being God since we have spoken on the phone. I will like you do a good study about that. We will take it up next time. It's now turn for me and Frosbel.....lolz |
| Christianity Etc › Re: A Proposition For Theological Debate by Goshen360(m): 11:36pm On Oct 08, 2012 |
^^^ Brother Frosbel don run to debate with me naw......wetin I go do now Hmmmmmmm (Thinking). Okay, I got an idea, I will call two or three witnesses to testify...... . In deed, Frosbel looked for trouble and he got one....lolz . Me just start my own trouble with frosbel on another thread.....lolz. Pikin wey say him mama no go sleep, him sef now go fit sleep na @ Frosbel, I hope you are NOT shouting Trinity in your sleep these days I get holy water for here make I send you to quench the spirit of Trinity |
| Christianity Etc › Re: A Proposition For Theological Debate by Goshen360(m): 10:26pm On Oct 08, 2012 |
ijawkid: Lol....ur getin it all wrong my elder brother....:-)....Haaaaaaa, So angels did creation or participated in creation right.....You need to use scriptures to prove "IT MUST HAVE BEEN TALKING TO ANGELS". You confidently can say the "us" in Genesis 1:26 is Christ and yet Yahweh MUST have been talking to Angels That's Interesting! Where was it recorded that Angels did Create WITH God, Yahweh. I have sent you an email. Check your inbox. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: I Want To Debate "Frosbel" On "The Deity Of Christ And The Holy Spirit" As God by Goshen360(op): 10:13pm On Oct 08, 2012 |
Deep Sight: No: I insist on imposing myself on this thread.according to your signature.......Be Still. Goshen360: [size=20pt]ONLY FROSBEL AND GOSHEN PLEASE.[/size]If you want my debate......Start another thread with my name and I will respond. This thread is for me and Frosbel. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: A Proposition For Theological Debate by Goshen360(m): 10:08pm On Oct 08, 2012 |
ijawkid: Yahweh is the Grand creator.....now that's what I'm saying.....You and I will dance round and come back to the truth. Now you said, "I can confidently say that the us in genesis 1:26 primarily refers to Jesus......." This matter is very simple to the truth of the bible. The same truth I tried to use John 1:1 to prove abi you need kain ni.....since John 1:1 identified 2 God to us in creation, the Elohim as USED in Genesis 1:1 will then mean plural of person more than also plural of majesty since the same is used in Genesis 1:26 and you say He is Jesus and john 1:1 tells us this Jesus (Word) is God according to John 1:1......Send me email, make I give you suprise int'l call NOW. . We can then proceed to the Holy Spirit being God. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Dilemma : Is GOD a Trinity by Goshen360(m): 10:01pm On Oct 08, 2012 |
frosbel: God is ONE , not THREE.And yet the BIBLE calls Three Being God in One True God. I need you to attend to the Thread I started for you and I to debate this issue. https://www.nairaland.com/1069078/want-debate-frosbel-deity-christ |
| Christianity Etc › Re: I Want To Debate "Frosbel" On "The Deity Of Christ And The Holy Spirit" As God by Goshen360(op): 9:52pm On Oct 08, 2012 |
Frosbel.......Where art thou I hope you are not acting after the nature of the first Adam . You need to act after the Last and Second Adam for he had not given us the spirit of fear......  9. And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where [art] thou? 10. And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I [was] naked; and I hid myself. Genesis 3 I hope this is not what is happening to you |
| Christianity Etc › Re: A Proposition For Theological Debate by Goshen360(m): 9:46pm On Oct 08, 2012 |
ijawkid: You can't just pick out genesis 1:1 and forfeit the rest 34 places where this same elohim is used in the creation verses......Okay if it was Yahweh that is the God that Genesis 1:1 is directed to, then you also need to answer the question.....who are the "us" in verse 26 I don't know you best to communicate my thought to you. Creation is NOT ascribes to ONLY Yahweh. We just read in Colossians and John 1:3 that ALL THINGS are made THROUGH Christ and also the Father, Yahweh, How then do we ascribe creation to ONLY the Father? Huh, HOW? |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Jesus, A Real Human Being by Goshen360(m): 9:40pm On Oct 08, 2012 |
@ plappville sweerie, I get your message. Herein is the issue. First since you believe Jesus is divine. I might not have much issue with you unless you also want to enter a debate with me on the deity of Christ. My issue with Frosbel is denying the deity of Christ and the title of this thread says "Jesus, A Real Human Being". This same Jesus was presented to us in many different aspects in the Gospel. John presented him as God who BECAME a human to reveal the Father and give us eternal life. He is NOT the Father but was from the Father and he was called God. Luke presented as the "son of man" tracing his genealogy to Adam. When he "became" human, taking human nature is where and when he is called the Son of God. When God begat, he begat one like himself. That is why we believers are also called the sons of God. We carry God in our new birth and spiritual being even though we walk human on earth. |
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