₦airaland Forum

Pastor Kun: There is no doubt about the deity of christ. Christ is the son of the Almighy God so that automatically bestows divinity on him. Also kindly quote one scripture in the bible which clearly states that God manifests himslf in three divine and eternal beings.

Bros....abeg cool down. I know you are at beef with this trinity stuff. It is not a salvation issue and same is tithing but when the bible says something, it doesn't necessarily have to go well with us or you. The bible does not explictly mention "trinity" just like other words we have today just to explain a concept/teaching. Let us treat the bible not Goshen.....okay.

Now this verse (from other translation) clearly says Jesus is the TRUE GOD......Am asking, how do you understand this?......because the thing baffle me sef and na only una anti-trinity that can explain it......So Pastor please explain this.......HOW DOES JESUS BECOME THE TRUE GOD according to this verse?

Pastor Kun: According to this verse the TRUE GOD is the father of Jesus christ.

What then do you say to this translationS.....

Goshen360: The Message (MSG)
18-21 We know that none of the God-begotten makes a practice of sin—fatal sin. The God-begotten are also the God-protected. The Evil One can’t lay a hand on them. We know that we are held firm by God; it’s only the people of the world who continue in the grip of the Evil One. And we know that the Son of God came so we could recognize and understand the truth of God—what a gift!—and we are living in the Truth itself, in God’s Son, Jesus Christ. [size=15pt]This Jesus is both True God[/size] and Real Life. Dear children, be on guard against all clever facsimiles.


GOD’S WORD Translation (GW)
20 We know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding so that we know the real God. We are in the one who is real, his Son Jesus Christ. [size=15pt]This Jesus Christ is the real God[/size] and eternal life.

Abi make we start dey query translationS ni ......

Delafruita: every single version of that verse makes it clear that yeshwa and yahweh are different entities.if after reading it,you felt it was in favour of trinity,i have to question your comprehension skills

We don't have to understand the same way..... For we know in part.....

Pastor Kun:

@Goshen
For someone who so much believes in searching the scriptures and holding on to biblical truth i am suprised that you are still holding on to this pagan doctrine that has no basis in scripture. Even the scriptures you quoted above makes it clear that Jesus the son is a seperate entity from his father who is the almighty God. I would rather you just leave this issue to rest. Your salvation does not depend onbelieving the trinity concept and all this verses trinitarians keep bringig up to support the doctrine can be interpereted in ways that contradict the doctrine. There is not one single verse in the whole bible that suggests or states that God is three in one or one in three. It is totally alien to scriptures and it has roman pagan origins. Let us stop adding to scriptures or forcing opinions into it.

Right it doesn't depend of salvation BUT to deny the deity of Christ as God is what the anti-trinitarian is all about and this is even more contrary to scriptures. On the contrary, trinity teaching/doctrine is NOT a pagan originated teachings/doctrine but a bible doctrine. Also, I guess you don't understand the concept of trinity - it does not say there are THREE God(s) BUT ONE GOD who manifest Himself in Three divine and eternal being. This is the nature of God, NOT man.

See as you guys are just running away from what the verse says.........Who is the TRUE GOD according to this verse?

Pastor Kun: I was also led to study [size=15pt]Hebrews 7 this chapter puts a final nail on the coffin to the tithes doctrine as it was specifically brought to and end in verses 11&12[/size] and described as a weak useless and unprofitable law in verse 18&19.

When the tithe teachers are confronted on the reasons why Christians should "pay" tithe as if we "owe" God since we are NO LONGER UNDER THE LAW BUT UNDER GRACE, they will quickly defend themselves and run to tithing BEFORE the law (Abraham's tithing to Melchizedek) to justify tithing for NT Believers. While they do that, (the afore mentioned) the kind of tithing they ACTUALLY teach and practice is ACCORDING TO THE LAW, (Heb. 7:5). This means, they only camouflage and disguise in pretense saying that tithing was before the law and it is on that basis that it is necessary Christian should/must tithe. But the practice itself is according to the law, NOT ACCORDING TO THE Pre-law which they camouflage with. This is deception and falsehood in disguise!

An Exposition in the book of Hebrews chapter 7 actually discussed in details the PRE-LAW (Heb. 7:2) AND TITHING ACCORDING TO THE LAW (Heb. 7:5) and what the writer did was to NAIL AND DISANNULLED the practice of tithing and declared a CHANGE. So when tithe teachers say tithing, is before the law and it is on this ground it is taught to the church, every Christians needs to study Hebrews 7 and understand that both (pre-law and law tithing) were discussed therein AND AN END WAS PUT TO IT.

Pastor Kun: It became obvious to me that this was a man made doctrine backed up by twisting scripture to take advantage of believers and make money from them. the doctrine clearly lacked sound biblical basis.

.....heavy words.

[size=15pt]1 John 5:20[/size]

Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
20 and we have known that the Son of God is come, and hath given us a mind, that we may know Him who is true, and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ; this one is the true God and the life age-during!

New Living Translation (NLT)
20 And we know that the Son of God has come, and he has given us understanding so that we can know the true God.[a] And now we live in fellowship with the true God because we live in fellowship with his Son, Jesus Christ. He is the only true God, and he is eternal life.

New Life Version (NLV)
20 We know God’s Son has come. He has given us the understanding to know Him Who is the true God. We are joined together with the true God through His Son, Jesus Christ. He is the true God and the life that lasts forever.

New King James Version (NKJV)
20 And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us an understanding, that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.


New International Version (NIV)
20 We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true by being in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.

New American Standard Bible (NASB)
20 And we know that the Son of God has come, and has given us understanding so that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.

The Message (MSG)
18-21 We know that none of the God-begotten makes a practice of sin—fatal sin. The God-begotten are also the God-protected. The Evil One can’t lay a hand on them. We know that we are held firm by God; it’s only the people of the world who continue in the grip of the Evil One. And we know that the Son of God came so we could recognize and understand the truth of God—what a gift!—and we are living in the Truth itself, in God’s Son, Jesus Christ. This Jesus is both True God and Real Life. Dear children, be on guard against all clever facsimiles.

Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)
20 And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding so that we may know the true One.[a] We are in the true One—that is, in His Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.

GOD’S WORD Translation (GW)
20 We know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding so that we know the real God. We are in the one who is real, his Son Jesus Christ. This Jesus Christ is the real God and eternal life.

English Standard Version (ESV)
20 And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true; and we are in him who is true, in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.


Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
20 And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding. So now we can know the one who is true, and we live in that true God. We are in his Son, Jesus Christ. He is the true God, and he is eternal life.

Amplified Bible (AMP)
20 And we [have seen and] know [positively] that the Son of God has [actually] come to this world and has given us understanding and insight [progressively] to perceive (recognize) and come to know better and more clearly Him Who is true; and we are in Him Who is true—in His Son Jesus Christ (the Messiah). This [Man] is the true God and Life eternal.

This verse has ACTUALLY and completely CHANGED and ENHANCED my understanding to better understand Trinity. I will like this verse to be an open discussion and especially for the ANTI-TRINITARIANS to discuss their understand of this scripture. I love to read the view/interpretation of the anti-trinitarians on the scriptures. Trinitarians are also free to contribute. Thank you.

(I have my legs crossed with pop corn and soda in front of the computer waiting to read from both sides)

^^^
Na wha for you o my brother.....you and all this your big big grammar sef.

Anyway, we will always disagree with agree.

You believe the "heaven" in Gen. 1:1 to be the abode place of God, I don't believe so, I believe it is a statement going afore hand in which Genesis 1:2 describes the "initial" earth when first created and from 1:3 to end of creation tells HOW 1:1 was accomplished. I agree with you that "heaven", the abode place of God was created before our own heaven but that is not what the "heaven" in 1:1 meant, it meant our own heaven, sky and where light bearers are fixed. Maybe that is why you believed the Gap stuff...due to how you took the "heaven" in 1:1. That is why I said, you are saying something strange from what the Gap teachers teaches.

Two. I don't believe the water of Genesis 1:2 is flood as a result of judgment as the Gap teachers teaches. I believe it is the initial form of creation as first called into being. And I don't accept/believe the Gap interpretation that there is Gap between verse 1 and 2 which they refer verse one to initial creation in perfect order and verse to as flooded earth due to lucifer's sin only for God to start His RE-creation from Genesis 1:3.

Three. The Gap/Pre-Adamic teachers also teaches that when God created the world in perfect order in Gen. 1:1 and was "flooded" as a judgment for lucifer's sin, that GOD created everything perfect and also includes the sun, moon and stars. They teach that the "light" in Gen.1:3 is from the sun otherwise there cannot be day for the first day. All this are distortion to God's word.

Anyways, when I have time (maybe this week or next), I will start to share the Gospel of the beginning, in Genesis 1 as I learnt from God's word.

sleekysol: t

i agree with you to some extent but so many denominations today see the olive oil(anointing oil) as a sacred and healing tool. In the bible only one oil was referred to as sacred in the old testament and there was strict warning for no one to make any oil of such nature in the future failure to heed would warrant the wrath of God.

My brother.......it was only a type and shadow of the Holy Spirit and that (anointing) has been given to ALL believers in the NT......except for the case of anointing the sick with oil in which it is not the oil per say BUT the prayer of faith by the righteous that shall heal the sick. Anything outside of this for the NT church is misuse of the symbols for the substance and it is a ritual.

NOW(presently, in the now; mine added) faith is.....Heb 11:1

Is any one of you sick? He should call the elders of the church to pray over him and anoint him with oil in the name of the Lord. And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well; the Lord will raise him up. If he has sinned, he will be forgiven. James 5:14-15

Here you see, it is not the oil that makes the sick well BUT the prayer of FAITH.

Bros....i no understand you again sef. Abeg leave me alone joor, wetin sef.

^^^
The interpretation you're giving to Gen. 1:2 is never of flood, it is the way it was "initially or originally" called to be. To my understanding, when you say "flooded", it means (to me) that it existed before and was "flooded" and this is exactly the kind of thing the Gap and Pre-Adamic teachers are saying. This scripture gave structure to Genesis 1:2,

But they deliberately forget that long ago by God's word the heavens existed and the earth was formed out of water and by water. 2 Peter 3:5, NIV

sleekysol: so in other words you are saying anointing oil is being misrepresented in this modern day

When you don't understand the purpose and reasons for the symbols.....you will misplace it for the substance.

Delafruita: why the waste of oil if only the prayer is sufficient?the use of olive oil has a significance which was highlighted in the bible

Do you mind highlighting the significant of "olive oil" to us from the bible?

This is REAL witchcraft in the church EXPOSED......am watching the complete episode on Youtube.....interesting.

danwo: @Goshen360

I do understand what the gap theory and pre-Adamic world teachers teaches

You're right about a deviation and this more so why in a previous post it was stated

I am not submitting an apologia on "Genesis 1:1-2 On Pre-Adamic And Gap Theory" . . .

"Thinking outside the box" - was the earth not flooded in Genesis 1:2?

Quite a few people think the earth was flooded only once - i.e. Noah's Flood or the Noahic Deluge

No wonder God was forbidding me to avoid your question.........on the above, is one of the reasons I asked you if you have not being studying from Dakes......one of the things the Gap teachers teaches - That the water of Genesis 1:2 is a flood and it was as a result of judgment from Lucifer's sin.....That, the bible didn't teach. That water is just the initial way the earth was first created and the Hebrew people understood it to be formless. I don't believe neither do I accept it as flood.....you may want to share your view so we study together.......

I have learnt that apologetics is not forcing your view/understanding on others BUT presenting the facts and evidence that will cut beyond ALL contradiction and be consistence throughout the bible.

In the OT, the anointing oil is a function of something from the outside BUT in the NT, it is function of something that is from inside/within a Christian/believer. Aside, the NT says, anoint the sick with oil BUT it is not the oil that heals the sick BUT THE PRAYER OF FAITH BY THE RIGHTEOUS, that's what heals the sick.

Aside of this, people who drink anointing oil and carry anointing oil all about are void of the word and the power of a believer minus the acts of the Holy Spirit.

@ danwo,

Your own version of Gap and pre-Adamic world is TOTALLY DIFFERENT from what the Gap theory often says.....Let me as (If permitted), do you understand what the gap theory and pre-Adamic world teachers teaches?...because you are saying something total different from theirs.

^^^
Me no understand this kind proverbs oooo. It's not like am dodging your kweshions but it's like you are mistaking something between verse one and two of Genesis 1 and that is where the problem is coming from......That is what I want us to deal with rather than question, question. What you are mistaking is, you take the "heaven" in Gen. 1:1 as the abode place of God which in your interpretation translates into Gap between verse one and two. If you are interpreting that heaven as the abode place of God, your interpretation is wrong but you will be right that Gap exist before creating the earth but that's not what we/are talking about, we are talking about when the earth was created in its initial state in verse 2. Since you agree that verse two is a description on which from verse 3 speaks of, then how can the heaven in 1:1 be the abode place of God and then verse 3 forward taking after verse 2?

Except am not understanding you my brother.

^^^
Why don't you tell us about the answers since am "dodging" the question and share with us how it fits into the gap/pre-adamic world......or what you think?

I will like to wash feet (serve humanity for the last time) and take communion like Jesus. Glory to God.

^^^
Kindly change the font face of your article SO OTHERS/MANY CAN BENEFIT FROM THE ARTICLE. It's a good article BUT the fonts are ugly, there is tendency many people will walk away seeing the choice of font. Thank you.

JeSoul: Now you are talking. Front seats aren't that necessary though, I prefer luxury suites in the balcony. Goshen and co can manage cabin bisquits & pure water, no refreshments for non-tithers.

So...will you be speaking at the event? It may not be a bad idea to record, youtube and paste here

Chei.....See as JeSoul dey give me uppercut for public? Na because you be my Mod o....I for return my own upper cut

@ OP, I wish am there but if you can send flight ticket sha.....maybe I fit consider.....abi wetin you think

^^^
I don repent for the other thread ooooooo. Go check it out.

Pastor Kun: I was hoping you would wait for the tithe brigade to welcome you into their fold before letting the cat out of the bag. Funny enough none of them as been bold enough to show up since this thread was resuscitated. Maybe they have decided to repent of their fraudulent ways.

no be small thing o my brother......as i see say u don start dey put me for corner, na eim i say make i run declare the truth.......Glory to God!

ijawkid: I don nearly get cardiac arrest...lol...truthislight for arrest u if to say u no remain an anti-tither....lol

No mind the guy jare.....he don dey follow me so tay afraid don dey catch me sef to talk now......na to go chnage id like someone i know but can't mention his name so my name no go enter pharisee and Sadducee list.......

Which kind thing my eyes come start dey read this early morning so? What kind of crusade is this Even my beloved brothers who the Goshen LORD loves is in this list...........NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. I reject it BY FIRE AND BY THE BLOOD OF JESUS. ANY enemy of the beloved brothers FALL DOWN AND QUENCH, FALL, FALL FALL, FALL, FALL, FALL, FALL, FALL, QUENCH, QUENCH, FIRE,, FIRE, FIRE, FIRE, FIRE, OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, I SAY FALL, FALL, FALL, FALL.........(have you fallen and quenched?)........The guy no gree fall and quench ooooooooooo. E be like the scripture is working.....He that is NOT against us is for us.

Besides,

Unlike so many, we do not peddle the word of God for profit. On the contrary, in Christ we speak before God with sincerity, like men sent from God. 2 Corinthians 2:17, NIV

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
Instead, we have refused to use secret and shameful ways. We don't use tricks, and we don't distort God's word. As God watches, we clearly reveal the truth to everyone. This is our [letter of] recommendation. 2 Corinthians 4:2

^^^
Chai, see as all these brothers dey wait for me esp that one wey dem dey call or na him dey call himself "truthislight" wey dey follow me everywhere for nairaland as he wan marry mi ni . Can't you read between the lines . You no see say I just dey catch fun for this thread Abeg, make you be in the Spirit o.....so you go see clearly

I was doing same manipulations that pro-tithe false teachers does to the scripture.....trying to imitate them. Alas, our people don know the truth already.........[size=15pt]HENCE, I REMAIN ANTI-TITHE TEACHER TILL CHRIST RETURNS[/size]

@ Image123,

As much and good as we are student of the word. I also believe the "in the beginning" of Genesis 1:1 is not the beginning of God's word but the beginning of creation of OUR heaven(s) which we literally see above us and our earth. I am not debating the fact that "heaven", the abode place of God was NOT already created but my debate is the heaven we see literally above us and where the light bearers are fixed. This is what am debating, let's not confuse the issue. I do not and the bible do not say there is GAP in the creation of our own physical heaven (not heaven, the abode place of God) and earth WHEN GOD BEGAN TO CREATE THE WORLD but if you say guys are referring to the "heaven" in Genesis 1:1 to mean the abode place of God, that will be a wrong interpretation of such "heaven" and you will be right to mean the is Gap between that heaven and creation of our own literal and physical "heaven/earth" which is exactly what this creation account is all about for it doesn't mention the creation of the heaven where God reside but our physical heaven/earth.

As for the use of "create", "made" and "formed". Both create and made/formed can be used interchangeably as you rightly pointed but create carries more deeper meaning that to form/made. To create is to bring something out of nothing while to form/made is to use an existing material to bring something into existence. The use of "create" in 1:1 means God is the subject of creation and He brought the initial earth/heaven out of nothing because the water/deep of Genesis 1:2 knows no one the existing materials. The English verb “create” captures well the meaning of the Hebrew term in this context. The verb (bara’) always describes the divine activity of fashioning something new, fresh, and perfect. The verb does not necessarily describe creation out of nothing but sometimes does where the context allow (see, for example, Genesis 1:27, where it refers to the creation of man rather than formed/made since the existing material from which man was made was the dust/soil of the ground); it often stresses forming anew just like one can create a new account e.g on nairaland or somewhere.

We are only doing this talk to have our spiritual senses exercised......

[quote author=petres_007]Yeah, I just read through your hilarious "new tithing convert thread"

Woulda been nice to have you around o! No wahala [/quote]Na as dem open my yansh for that thread na eim I run comot from there becuase that guy "truthislight" just dey follow me instead make him dey follow Jesus or Apostle Paul. Na eim I say make I run comot there only to come jam "danwo" for here again......wetin I go do now, na to pick race comot here....."Pastor Kun" come enter this thread again even I don see "Zikky" here too on standby. I no think say my kind of new pro-tithe converts fit challenge ALL this anti-tithes GIANTS. Except say I will need backup from "Image123" and "Olaadegbu" with other pro-tithers not forgetting to mention "Joagbaje" and "Snowwy".

[quote author=petres_007]Abi na... make I no go talk say dem go share chicken & chips na. . . dat day, the hall go just full enter main road. . . you go think say na bible everybody find come true, true [/quote] . I do fall from my chair......still dey laugh