₦airaland Forum

@ Frosbel,

This is the answer to your kweshion. See, many times when the NT testament quotes from the OT, it does NOT quote exactly it is was written in the OT, it is mostly kind of paraphrased. Your question as to:

Mark 12:29 "The most important one," answered Jesus, "is this: 'Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one.

The above quote implies that it is talking about Jesus as "L"ord our God. But in the OT, you will see phrase such as "LORD GOD", Anywhere you see in scripture with FULL Capitalization such as LORD God or LORD GOD, it is in reference to Yahweh - the Father. The proper capitalization makes the distinction between words like "l"ord, "L"ord, LORD etc. Now go back to where Mark 12:29 is referenced from, Deuteronomy 6:4,

New International Version (©1984)
Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one.

New Living Translation (©2007)
"Listen, O Israel! The LORD is our God, the LORD alone.

English Standard Version (©2001)
“Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one.

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
"Hear, O Israel! The LORD is our God, the LORD is one!

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
Listen, Israel: The LORD is our God. The LORD is the only God.

King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:

American King James Version
Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:

English Revised Version
Hear, O Israel: the LORD our God is one LORD:

Webster's Bible Translation
Hear, O Israel: the LORD our God is one LORD:

World English Bible
Hear, Israel: Yahweh is our God; Yahweh is one:

Off course, God, the Father is ONE! And this is very clear through the scriptures as:

There is one body and one Spirit--just as you were called to one hope when you were called--one L[/b]ord, (reference to Christ-mine added) one faith, one baptism; [b]one God and Father of all, (reference to Yahweh - mine added) who is over all and through all and in all. Ephesians 4:6 NIV.

So the Mark 12:29 is in reference to the Father BUT the scriptures clearly call the Son, God and also calls the Holy Ghost, God.

Image123: nl's theoloGISTS are still playing here. Goshen which day do you think God created crude oil?

Okay bros, make I give you the answer. Crude oil was created with the initial creation of the earth in Genesis 1:2 and many more thing. That is why it is called "natural resources". I can prove it with scriptures if you doubt me or if you want me to prove. I hope this answers your question.

@ Ijawkid and truthislight,

Wow!

Well, I believe you guys should sit down and simple comprehend the scripture. I STOPPED to blame ANY CHRISTIAN since the day the Lord opened my eyes to the truth that.....

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
Our knowledge is incomplete and our ability to speak what God has revealed is incomplete. 1 Cor. 13:9

The verse I gave up there SHOULD have read, IF the Holy Spirit is not separate from God........"why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost.....thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God the Holy Ghost. And besides, why do you guys think Jesus would say, sin against the Father (Yahweh) shall be forgiven, sin against the son shall be forgiven but sin against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven. Who then is the Holy Ghost that sin against shall not be forgiven

The context of the verse I quoted up there simple calls the Holy Ghost God in the sense that it talks about LYING TO HOLY GHOST AND THE NEXT VERSE CALLS THIS HOLY GHOST GOD and there is evidence in scripture that the Holy Ghost is distinct from God. The bible doesn't speak in tongues my brothers. I guess I might be busy today but I will resume this discussion when am back.

@ Ijawkid,
The verse you quoted simply talks about "authority/submission". Jesus off course......

New Living Translation (©2007)
Though he was God, he did not think of equality with God as something to cling to. Philippians 2:6

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

(You can read different translations of this verse here: http://bible.cc/philippians/2-6.htm).

For whatever reason, best known to the Holy Spirit who inspired the word, I do not know why the Holy Spirit was not in the verse of I Cor. 11:3. I will be back to share more. Thank you.

@ truthislight,

Let us start with this scripture of the Holy Spirit/Ghost being called God. Let's start here and if time permit me, I will show your more, okay.

But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back [part] of the price of the land? Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God. Acts 5:3-4 Kjv.

What do you see of this scripture? Tell me your understanding here and we will continue from there.

@ truthislight,

I will be happy to show you scriptures of the Holy Spirit being called God now that you have calm down. See, my brother, all you need to know is Grace and Truth goes together. You can't take one and leave the other out. Many times as I have watched you on this forum, you love the truth but many times, you follow and seek the truth in a rude manner (my observation). You need to calm down and deal Graciously with other believers in any subject matter. That is how we can truly have fellowship with one another via the Internet.

@ nedostic,

Okay. Thank you for the observation. I cannot tell you for sure why the Apostles didn't only baptized in the name of Jesus christ alone and NOT as commanded by Jesus to be baptized in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. But here is my point, should the Holy Spirit NOT be distinct from God, Jesus would have probably said baptize in the name of the Father and the Son and end it there, but He went further to say "and the Holy Spirit". This "suggest" or mean that Holy Spirit is distinct from the Father. This is as clear as ABC. I am not here to win argument or convince anyone, I only "reason" the scriptures and presents the evidence that the Holy Spirit is indeed distinct from the Father, God (Yahweh). This is my stand for the moment BUT if my view or understand changes for we know in part, then I will boldly and openly declare such change and update of knowledge. I hope my stand/case is very clear sir.

frosbel: My Lord Jesus Christ

My God - Yahweh

Brother Frosbel......was Jesus called God in this verse or NOT? Yes or NO? Don't start game with me now....Am just starting here....I will show you and truthislight that is doing gra-gra on the other thread that the bible also calls the Holy Spirit God.......Answer my first kweshion first: Was Jesus called God in this verse or NOT?

truthislight: this whole thing is because you quoted the bible as saying that the holy spirit is a God, and that is not true.

The bible calls Jesus God.

The bible calls Yahweh God.

The bible calls them persons.

"Infact the bible says that christ enters into heaven itself to appear befor the person of God"

but no WHERE in the bible from GENESIS to Revelation that the bible calls the "holy spirit God"

but you on this thread said it does!

Can you now understand where am coming from?

If some one says he accepts the trinity, fine and good to the person, but let him not say that the bible teaches it.

Even the catholic church calls it a mystery and not that the bible calls the hole spirit a God.

Bros, you go fight me tire o. I say make you cool down. In fact, you need to take a deep breath and chill out. I know you are fighting for the truth but I asked you, have you read Genesis to Revelation and you sure you didn't see where the Bible calls the Holy Spirit God . How am I then suppose to be sure you know the truth that your id bears? In fact, I will show you MORE than one scriptures where the bible calls the Holy Spirit God ONLY when you cool down and stop all this your gra-gra. If you make me vex sef, I will postpone it till tomorrow and let you salivate for me to show you. Cool down bro.

Okay.....you have always know me for the truth. Okay. We don't have problem with the Father being called God right

Okay, let's where the bible calls the Son God.....

What do you think of this scripture:

And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. John 20:28 Kjv

How do you see this?

Weymouth New Testament

This is love indeed--we did not love God, but He loved us and sent His Son to be an atoning sacrifice for our sins.

1 John 4:10

truthislight: if i tell you i dont deliberately lie you may not belive it.

Friend, i HATE lies.

Most especially lies on God's word.

From GENESIS to revelation. There is no where that the bible said that the holy spirit is God, so, when you said that the bible said that the calls the "holy spirit God/god" there is no way that can be funny.

The father of the lies is satan so when i see a person lying my disdain is instanta and am even more seriouse when it can cost peoples life, how much more do you think that God will feel?

People can be wrong but not when they say that the bible says what the bible did not say.

Are you VERY SURE you have read Genesis to Revelation and you didn't see where the bible calls the Holy Spirit God? Are you VERY SURE?

truthislight: i should calm down so that you can lead people to eternal destruction?

Why should i calm down when you are teaching a pegan doctrine?

No, show us where the scriptures says that the holy spirit is a person/God


you had said that the bible said that the holy spirit is a God, so please show us.

if you quote the bible as a child of truth it must be what the bible says and not to lie with God's word.

Dont you have the fear of God?

How can you say that the bible called the holy spirit God the way it calls Yahweh and Jesus when it does not?

My brother, I have told you times without number. Your manner of communication is too harsh and you need to cool down. Let God teach you how to add Grace to truth. If you keep talking like this, I might as well decide NOT to show you where the Holy Spirit is called God in the Bible. To me, you are kind of too harsh on the choice of words, that is not the way to deal with other believers. Relax and learn.....no be gra-gra. okay.

@ nedostic,

Thank you soo much and God bless you. Yours indeed is a mature communication. We agree to disagree and disagree with agree hence we must do it in love. One is sure, whatever doctrine we test and prove the scriptures with, it must be proven BEYOND ALL CONTRADICTIONS. My talk to brother frosbel is that, the existence of the Holy Spirit is still very clear in the NT and since we cannot prove BEYOND ALL CONTRADICTIONS, we should not conclude that the Holy Spirit is not part of the Godhead but it's the God's spirit. I think this is the ONLY place am having discussion with brother Frosbel, truthislight and other anti-trinity. The place of Holy Spirit still stand as a distinct being in the Godhead.

frosbel: An Appeal to Trinitarians from gospel truth

As a former Trinitarian of many years, I would like to make an appeal to Trinitarians regarding personal integrity. Is your creedal tradition more important to you than the facts and the truth? It is obvious to me, and should be obvious to you, precisely WHO Jesus and this Jewish scribe are talking about: God the Father. The Scriptural evidence is crystal clear and tells us quite plainly that the "HE" in question is the Father, He who spoke out of the fire to Israel and promised to raise up the prophet Jesus, His servant and His Son. And this fact demonstrates that the God of Jesus is the God of Israel, and is the God of Christians, the Father alone, "there is no other but HE." Seek not the approval of men but the approval of God.

Maybe I'm not a FULL Trinitarian. What I believe from the word of God is that, the Father being referred to as the "THE LORD YOUR GOD IS ONE" is in reference to the father. But my understand is since the Bible also calls the Son God and the Holy Spirit also God, then I have no problem with that and that is where my believe in Trinity stand and these three is ONE or in Unity is terms of purpose and redemption. I rather hold on to the truth rather than traditions as you called us/me unto. I pray God help us all.

frosbel: But how can God be in a bodily form when he is a Spirit

I think we should end this matter, let God witness to the hearts of the faithful about the truth.

Oh okay. I was asking you the same question about this because this came up from the quote you gave in the other thread. For you to say God's Spirit is the same as Holy Spirit and it is not distinct from the Holy Spirit in the Godhead means you admit God having a BODILY FORM and the Holy Spirit is God's Spirit, not a third being of the Godhead.

I went further to ask you, If the Holy Spirit wasn't distinct from God who is a Spirit, how then do you deny the existence of the third being of the Godhead? I will also like you to end this matter and that is why I opened this thread......your recent articles against trinity does nothing other than to divide the body of Christ especially here on this forum. Being apologetics doesn't divide the body but explains the reasons for our believe.

Maybe you need to sit and relax and take another look at most of your thread about this trinity stuff being discussed recently. I trust God to strengthen you the more in the Lord. God bless you brother.

truthislight: i am bragging!

Today you will show me where the holy bible said that holy spirit is a person.

Brother, I say make you cool down small. Abi wetin happen naw? No kill me because of this Holy Spirit o.

Okay, do you believe the Bible says the father is God?

Do you believe that the Bible calls the Son, God?

Now we are left with where the Bible calls the Holy Spirit God right? Answer the two question above and I will show you, okay. E be like say you wan tear me here o. Take am easy bro....but no forget my tithe for me to tell you sha

truthislight: so you are now the one to determined who enters the kingdom of God and who is not even though you have not been quoting the bible?

What the vertican calls a mystery you are here saying it is "not difficult to understand"

that shows how much lies you are capable of saying.

You now understand it more than those that came up with it.

Brother, what exactly is the problem? Is this how you communicate with other people not to talk of your fellow believers. Are we fighting or what exactly is the issue here. Okay, you haven't know me too well. Sometimes, I throw in jokes just to ease tensions but you are not proving mature communication here. please, try to add Grace to the truth you know. Abeg cool down okay. You are being too harsh with the use of words. Cool down and let brotherly love prevail. Okay. I beg you.

nedostic: @Goshen360,

I have a simple question for you on this trinity dogma or doctrine as the case maybe.


Is father,son and holy spirit names or titles?

I believe it's a "personal" name for each of the Godhead or you can call it a distinctive names by which you recognize each in a context of the scripture. If you choose to call it title for clarification or explanation purpose, that's fine as long as people understand what you are saying. I don't know if that answers your question.

truthislight: NO you did not study the bible with holy spirit but with a ghost.

Dont use illustration to teach others the bible, quote the bible, the bible does not need your help, it can defend itself.

If you use illustration to teach them the bible and end up being wrong will you Give them eternal life?

If it is God that will give eternal life why not let God's word speak for itself so that God will be happy with the person for following his word?

Dont you know that teaching out of the bible is lawlessness?

Well, I will give you scriptures when you calm down. I can sense that you are becoming rude in your communication with other. Let me kindly leave you alone for now until you are able to add Grace to the truth you claim to know for Grace and truth came by Jesus.

My brother Frosbel,

What I witnessed you saying and responding in other threads is that, Holy Spirit is God's Spirit because God has a BODILY FORM. Hence the Holy Spirit is NOT distinct from God. Is that not what you are saying?

truthislight: did you say that Frosbel should reason with your own view?

That is the most absurd thing that i have hard in recent times.

Are you not suppose to present your view and he will present his all MUST be base on the scriptures?

You have fail to quote one scripture that said that the holy spirit is a person but you want him to carry your view as his and start reasoning with it.

Why not keep your views while he keep his and we allow the bible to speak?

Bros, cool down o. E be like say you dey fight me ni? Abeg bros cool down. No be fight. So you don't believe me when I said I can show you where the Holy Spirit is called God? Okay, na you sabi o. What am asking brother frosbel is the possibility of God, who is a Spirit being able to possess another Spirit if the Holy Spirit is not distinct from God's spirit? If a Spirit cannot have spirit, then it means the Holy Spirit is distinct from God. Is this too hard for you to comprehend?

[quote author=Mr_Anony]Bros, please tell me you are not taking that question seriously[/quote]

Image123: does it sound unserious, Anony?

Off course am not taking my bros (Image123) serious that's why I turned it into game, lolz.

truthislight: my friend stop lying,

you done strength but you him/us to belive what you do have strength to defend.

Why not ask that your person ghost spirit to give you strengt/open your eye to see scriptures that will convince us that "he spirit" is a person?

What exactly are you talking about? I don't understand you my brother. You said I should show you where the Holy Spirit is called God and then I told you to bring "all" tithe into the Apostle's feet. You didn't do that and now you are bragging..... Are you sure you still want the answer? Then do what I told you

Image123: nl's theoloGISTS are still playing here. Goshen which day do you think God created crude oil?

Make I finish my eba first......I go answer you egbon mi

Here comes my sincere heart to my dearest brother Frosbel in your recent fight against the Holy Spirit. I believe we should be silent on issue of the Kingdom we don't fully comprehend yet. It's not everything topic of the Bible I understand myself but certainly not like that Trinity.

It is true and fact that the word "Trinity" doesn't occur in the bible but it is a word used to explain the concept of The father, Son and Holy Spirit being called God and these three are distinct but one in unity and purpose of redemption. To say that the Holy Spirit don't exist is great error. All I have seen you believe in rescent time is that, God have a bodily form which makes him have a spirit and therefore there is nothing like the Holy Spirit but the spirit of God because God, the Father has a bodily form. Now, if the Father is called God, the Son is called God and the Holy Spirit is called God, what then is hard to comprehend about Trinity? I don't see anything difficult therein.

The bible teaches that God is Spirit and if a Spirit CANNOT have or possess another Spirit, it will therefore mean that Holy Spirit exist on its own as a distinct being. My heart goes out to you brother Frosbel to please take more time to study the concept of Trinity. If you don't fully comprehend it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. What you end up doing with this new fight against the reality of the Holy Spirit is to divide the body and also attempt to put the Holy Spirit into extinction which is dangerous.

I can understand the teaching of Trinity is confusing as some teachers make it look but it is not when we actually take time with the one who inspires the word of God, then we get a better understanding. I hope this helps. Thank you and God bless you.

truthislight: i can still recall reading a post where you express your desire of being a "pastor" one day, if that is true then i think i know where your problem is coming from.

Meanwhile, just show us where the bible called the holy spirit "God"

thank you.

truthislight: i really want to learn from you were in the bible that the holy spirit is called "God".

Will you ever say what the bible does not teach?

truthislight: ^^^

that last statment is a lie.

There is no where in the bible that the holy spirit is called a God.

truthislight: i think i know you,
you will defend any thing.

You, show were the holy spirit is called "God"

truthislight: error,
we have spirit person and holy spirit.

Spirit person power is called "spirit"

holy spirit is power of almighty God, since he is holy, holy, holy.

My brother, see as you quote me plenty time just because you don't know where the Holy Spirit is called God. Na wha for you o. See am happy you said you want to learn and know. This is where am happy for you, whatever is a puzzle for you is NO puzzle for someone else in the Kingdom of God. I'm also happy your id says truthislight. You and I have engaged some time in the truth and reasoning the word of God. However, I will require your tithe and Apostolic offering to show you where the Holy Spirit is called God.....are you ready? If you are ready, take your tithe and Apostolic offerings in your hand and let's pray so our heavenly father to bless it before I receive it unto the Apostle's feet

And AFTER showing you, will it change your view and what will your view be AFTER I show you?

^^^
Hahahaha.....now we are getting somewhere. The bible says buy the truth and sell it not, so you no like the truth again? Okay, I go send painters make them come paint mama Sunday new duplex...how about that

danwo: Genesis 1:1 was used by Moses to make a factual statement before starting explaining how Adam's world came about

Note Adam is interchangeable for Man

Genesis 1:1 is a verse to introduce Genesis 1:2 onwards

The original text (i.e. lets leave out KJV or translations) did not have heaven with a -s

If the highlight above is what you believe and accept as the interpretation for Genesis 1:1, then you are good. And that will not put any gap in between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2 then. Is that okay bro?

@ Ijawkid,

I don't believe Jesus is the same as Yahweh, I believe they are distinct but ONE in purpose and Unity and both or all are called God. The bible calls the Father God, the Bible calls Jesus God and the Bible calls the Holy Spirit God.

And if I show you where the Bible calls the Holy Spirit God, will it change you view about Trinity? And what will your view be after showing you scripture where the Holy Spirit is called God?

^^^

Another point to consider is that.....Why does Jesus himself make this clear distinction should they NOT be different from each other? See my brother, I was once into this kind of confusion until I stayed still with the Holy Spirit and I was taught. Abeg, no do gra-gra with the Holy Spirit . Jesus could have said, In the name of the father and the Son only......should the Holy Spirit not be a distinct being.

Until you answer the question of the possibility of God (Spirit) being able to have Spirit/spirit, then you will still not see the Holy Spirit as a distinct being which Jesus also referred to.

Now answer the kweshion, CAN A SPIRIT HAVE/POSSESS A SPIRIT?

JeSoul: Lol. I'm sure as an atheist MMW will reject tithe money so lemme hold on to it for him. I can still submit half to you sha...what are you promising in return? leggedes mercedes benz?

Ahh! Mercedes benz ke . The only thing I will send in return is either buy the truth and send to you or give it to you online, I mean Bible Study materials. However, that will be after I get my tithe in my paypal account sha....send to paypal account on same email: goshen360@yahoo.co.uk. But wait o, e be like say una mouth don wide o.....Mercedes benz ke!

frosbel: Jesus's divinity has never been under question.

What has been under contention is if Jesus Christ as Lord is also the one and ONLY TRUE GOD.

The Holy Spirit is not separate from GOD but is his Spirit.

This is what am trying to correct on the other thread. You fall for this error because you admit God is a PERSON and have BODILY FORM hence, you conclude God has a Spirit like man. When you admit the words of Jesus that God is Spirit, then you will need to answer the question how it is possible from anywhere in the bible that a Spirit (God) will have another Spirit. If you believe God is Spirit, and Spirit cannot have another Spirit, then you will re-visit this concept you have about Trinity and see the Holy Spirit as distinct from God, the father and God's Spirit.