₦airaland Forum

Let's solve a puzzle in the Holy Ghost before we go to bed tonight. Are you ready?

buzugee: come on now. you gotta share that knowledge bruh. give us a lil taster of what is to come. let us wet our beaks. a lil shumtin shumtin you plan on releasing a book ? thats a great idea you know ? with all this knowledge you are collating you can just write a book. religious books are hot cakes in nigeria. you can even get a publisher in nigeria easily.

Yeah you are right. But I found out I have the gift of teaching and doing exposition of the word. I have not really learnt how to write book yet as in, arranging my thought, by thought but I can assure you by the Holy Ghost, I can do skilled exposition of God's word. I think one has to be trained to arrange concept of writing books. I might consider books in the future but not now. What I am "sent" to do for now is "give" freely. I plan to "give" freely here on Nairaland for now. Whatever God desire I do in the future, I will do.

Since you asked for a taste of what am doing right now, I will give you guys some nuggets from the book of Jude. I will extract a portion (ONLY VERSE ONE) of the book of Jude and you can see how the grace of God works in my life. This might encourage people and readers to do more studies. I took 5 days to expand on Jude verse 1 only. I will give some extracts from it on Sunday or Monday.

You are NOT far from the kingdom bro. The kingdom is near you and infact, within you.

buzugee: you couldnt have explained it any better. Known tongue = prophesy to others and edifies others
unknown tongue = praying to God and edifies the speaker. yall gone get me speaking in tongues in a minute now

I can lead you to the gift of Speaking in tongues BUT the answer is in 1 Cor 14:1, 5, 39

Pursue love, and [size=15pt]desire[/size] spiritual [gifts], but especially that you may prophesy.

I wish you [size=15pt]all[/size] spoke with tongues, but even more that you prophesied; for [fn] he who prophesies [is] greater than he who speaks with tongues, unless indeed he interprets, that the church may receive edification.

Therefore, brethren, [size=15pt]desire earnestly[/size] to prophesy, and do not forbid to speak with tongues.

That's the Key (above and below verses) but remember it is the Holy Ghost that gives each and not all speaks in tongues.

And God has appointed these in the church: first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, varieties of tongues. [Are] all apostles? [Are] all prophets? [Are] all teachers? [Are] all workers of miracles? Do all have gifts of healings? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret? [size=15pt]But earnestly desire the best gifts.[/size] And yet I show you a more excellent way.

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Here in America bro. "Maybe" (depending on my finance) when am coming to Nigeria by the grace of God, I have the thought to buy some study materials and give to some of you my good friends on Nairaland. I have started building a bible commentary now. lolz. It's a whole lots of works but it will take years though to finish the whole NT. I will hit you guys with a taste of my exposit commentary on one of the NT books of the bible am doing right now. That is why am spending less time on Nairaland now not entering too many threads.

^^^

Nevertheless, because of sexual immorality, let each man have his own wife, and let each woman have her own husband.
1 Cor. 7:2 Nkjv

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You have 1000+ points and applause. In one of my courses in the bible school where I got 100%, the lecturer said to me, "you cannot get more than 100% he would have given me". Same I say to you brother but by the Grace of Apostleship on me, I give you 1000+, lolz

Please ask the question with the bible quotes. I still can't understand. Quote the verse and ask the question again in respect of the verse in a clear terms. I will be willing to help you.

Wow! What a humble servant of God @ ApostlePat. This is great and wonderful words. I pray my brother Image123 meditate on these nuggets of Grace.

Okay. seems you are coming up gradually. Now, if you go down verse 14 of 1 cor. 14, it says

For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my understanding is unfruitful.

AND VERSE 2 SAYS,

For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands [him]; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries.

I want you to consider the bolded in v14 and 2 where I highlighted. The ONLY way I know that we SPEAK to GOD (as per vs 2) IS BY PRAYING (as per vs 14). It is very clear that this tongue is NOT the known or understandable one by men unlike the day of Pentecost. IT IS A TONGUE USED OR IN PRAYING TO GOD ONLY. It's a mystery in the spirit that even the man that speaks don't understand. It's a manifestation of the Spirit of God AS GIVEN in an act of prayer or speaking to God.

Now, what am against is the mis-use of the gift in THE CHURCH GATHERING. Because it doesn't edify the church, so what? Why speaking it all over the place in the church since you are not the only one in the church. You should speak something that others will benefit from. Many people had mis-use the gift and follow it blindly in a religious way and hence, they rubbish the gift.

Back to your topic or Thread, Should people shut up in the church speaking in tongues, YES! Because no man understand it and it does not edify others. Beside, the gifts of tongues and it's interpretation if need be ARE THE LEAST OF THE GIFTS. It means, someone can start from the bottom (least) and develop or covet spiritual gifts to the top or greatest of all which is wisdom. Anyone that also prophesy is greater (in the manifestion of the gifts) than he that speaks in tongues, because prophesy benefits the church but tongues doesn't, it edifies only the speaker. (vs 3-5)

How do you see this explanation?

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Stop joking please. lolz. Okay. You are assuming right. Let's do some bible linking now. The language or tongues that were spoken in Acts on the day of Pentecost WAS A KNOWN LANGUAGE/TONGUES, How come Paul is saying here that when a man speaks a language to God, no man understands him except God and there is no language under heaven that no man will not understand, if not you and I , another person somewhere will definitely understand. How come this one mentioned here in speaking to God, no man understands?

Can you figure that out? I will explain my point in a moment anyway.

Okay bro. The question we need to also ask from this verse 2 is, WHAT KIND OF TONGUES OR LANGUAGE IS IT THAT SOMEONE WILL SPEAK TO GOD THAT NO MAN (under heaven) WILL UNDERSTAND HIM EXCEPT GOD? Do you have an idea of this language or tongue?

@ Ptolomeus,
I understand you. This is the mis-use of tongues in the church. When someone speak, the fact that we are not speaking to man but to God, the speaker of tongue is to keep quiet

@ buzugee,
Can we continue?

Good morning guys. Can we continue verse by verse please.

Well done you hear,lolz. I never slept o. I dey here dey do watchman

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I know you understand this verse also perfectly. But we need to establish one thing here. Tongues is the same thing as language right. We need to determine if it is just "tongues" OR "UKNOWN TONGUES" from the translations. We can as well call it "language" OR UNKNOWN LANGUAGE" Let us establish this first.

2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries. KJV


21st Century King James Version (KJ21)
2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God, for no man understandeth him, however it may be that in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.


Amplified Bible (AMP)
2 For one who speaks in an [unknown] tongue speaks not to men but to God, for no one understands or catches his meaning, because in the [Holy] Spirit he utters secret truths and hidden things [not obvious to the understanding].


Common English Bible (CEB)
14 Pursue love, and use your ambition to try to get spiritual gifts but especially so that you might prophesy. 2 This is because those who speak in a tongue don’t speak to people but to God; no one understands it—they speak mysteries by the Spirit.

Now in verse 2 taken from different translations, Paul INTRODUCED ANOTHER OF THE GIFTS OF THE SPIRIT/SPIRITUAL GIFTS. And here Paul introduced "gift of tongues" from the 1 Cor 12:8-10 which I showed you above. In 1 Cor. 12:10, it is called "kinds of tongues"

Now the things we need to clear as Enigma argued before is, wheather "unknown" is put in bracket or not. Let's look at this first. I mean weather UNKNOWN is placed in bracket such as (UNKNOWN). In the Amplified version, UNKNOWN is placed in bracket, as seen above. I will respond if I can still respond brother.

Well, I will not stay too long cos it's 8:20pm here and I will get up from the computer by 9pm. Okay.

This verse 1 of 1 Cor. 14 gives us basically 2 things.

1. Charity which means Love. Love is NOT a gift of the Spirit but FRUIT of the Spirit.

2. Spiritual Gifts which is same as spiritual endowment. Among this spiritual gifts is Prophesy. The rest are listed in 1 Corinthians 12:8-10 namely:

Now concerning spiritual [gifts], brethren, I do not want you to be ignorant: 1 Cor. 12:1

* word of wisdom through the Spirit,

* word of knowledge through the same Spirit

* to another faith by the same Spirit,

* to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit,

* to another the working of miracles,

* to another prophecy,

* to another discerning of spirits,

* to another [different] kinds of tongues,

* to another the interpretation of tongues.

So when Paul was saying follow after Charity (Love) AND desire the spiritual gifts but in desiring these spiritual gifts LET YOUR PRIORITY BE PROPHESY among these spiritual gifts. Can you blend what I just said with what you said. If there is any difference we resolve it before we continue.

buzugee: no doubt. no doubt. ill be here. i am waiting on that denver nuggets and lakers game. my boy andre miller about to break some ankles tonight

Do we wait for both Enigma and ijawkid to join us along OR we go ahead and trash it out together?

1 Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy. KJV

Okay. Here Pauls admonished us to follow Charity AND desire spiritual gifts BUT rather that we may prophesy.

1 Corinthians 14

Amplified Bible (AMP)

Eagerly pursue and seek to acquire [this] love [make it your aim, your great quest]; and earnestly desire and cultivate the spiritual endowments (gifts), especially that you may prophesy (interpret the divine will and purpose in inspired preaching and teaching).

What do you understand by this verse one?

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Let Enigma come and ijawkid come and let's do it verse by verse. Okay, I just saw you pulled up the whole chapter.

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Don't mind them. Yeye bois. They are making their money duh. We are here spreading the gospel,lolz

buzugee: sounds like someone who has a fetish for tatas and spongebob squarepants

i think we can rightfully say, after reading all the posts that no one has an absolute truth on this topic.

You may be right or wrong BUT I BELIEVE WE CAN KNOW THE TRUTH ON THIS SUBJECT IF WE DIG DEEP ON THE TOPIC, IF WE WANT TO.

@ Everyone,
Can we do verse by verse exposition on 1 Cor 14? It might take us some time just like the tithe,lolz We will go verse by verse explanation and from many translations

ijawkid: Ok let us for a second just believe that they weren't known languages,did the apostles repeat in-cohorent words when praying

Did they repeat words haphazardly over and over again just as we hear many today do??

Goshen for d last time just quietly confess to all of us that ur praying in tongues is [size=20pt]not[/size] d same pattern with what we hear all over d churches in nigeria

Tatatatatatatapapapapapapapapapaboboboobobobobobob

Its crazy man!!

I'm out of here

Amen to this bruh. NO, I DON'T.

@ Enigma,

Yes, you are right! Paul exalts prophesy more than speaking in tongues vs 1. Now, in the NKJV, you don't have "unknown". If we read without the word, UKNOWN then we will be left with just "tongues".

Now, how do we explain it when Paul said in vs 2, he that speaks in tongues does not speak to man but to God for NO ONE understands him? How do we explain that? The only way we speak to God is IN PRAYER. If you then go down to vs 14, it also talks about praying in tongues. I don't even know what am praying because Paul says my understanding is unfruitful.

Now, if in (vs 2) Paul says, I speak to God and not to man and no man understand me BUT THE TONGUES SPOKEN IN ACTS WAS UNDERSTOOD BY MEN. So what is Paul saying? Can you decode that?

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Holy Ghost class and those stuffs is where they are wrong. I don't submit to that. The Holy Spirit GIVES the utterances NOT going to class.

Enigma: So how do we know:

1. whether the tongues in Acts 10:46 were "spoken tongues" OR unknown tongues?

2. whether the tongues in Acts 19:6 were "spoken tongues" OR unknown tongues?

In Acts, the church just began. The purpose of "tongues" or different KNOWN languages given by the Power of the Holy Spirit is still to spread the gospel with other manifestation such as healing, miracles, prophesy, knowledge etc. I believe they are KNOWN because this is the manifestation as seen of the day of Pentecost. Now, Cornelius was chosen by God to be part of the spreading of the gospel, the gift of tongues at this time was manifesting like that of the day of Pentecost, that is why (I believed) the bible says, "For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God". Acts 2 just told us the kind of tongues that was spoken, KNOWN tongues and if Acts 10:46 and 19:6 is NOT specific, we are left with the option of the KNOWN tongues since this is the kind of tongues operating at this time.

Enigma: So how do we know:

3. whether the tongues in 1 Corinthians "spoken tongues" OR unknown tongues?

Here in 1 cor. 14. The tongues referred to is in relation to SPEAKING to man/church/God. There is also the tongues in relation to "praying" to God. KJV makes it clearer that in verse 2 and 14 of 1 cor 14, that the tongue in those verses are "UNKNOWN" while when it deals "Speaking" to church, if there is no interpreter, then that person should be quiet. This is the misuse then and now. Maybe you should read verse by verse KJV and NKJV with other translations.

Also read Romans 8:26, Eph 6:18 and Jude 1:20 from different translations.

One translation has Jude 1:20 like this,

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
Dear friends, use your most holy faith to grow. Pray with the Holy Spirit's help.

Now, if Romans 8:26 tells us that the Spirit helps us to pray with groanings which CANNOT BE EXPRESSED IN WORDS, I believe this is the unknown utterance that the Holy Ghost gives in the act of Praying. However, we should go about this in the church since we cannot understand it because it is an act of the Holy Spirit helping us to pray to God.

Maybe you need to present another view let's see. We can look at it together.

Enigma: I read your post well, Goshen.

I understand you are saying the tongues in Acts were used to spread the gospel. But I have just shown you two examples of "tongues" in the same Acts that were not used to spread the gospel!

Also, I still would be grateful (not compulsory of course) if you would answer this question: are unknown tongues also human languages?

Unknown tongues are NOT human tongues/languages. They are utterances that the Holy Ghost gives in the acts of praying.

where Apostle Image123 to answer my Q9 naw? Abi you dey search the scriptures from Genesis to Revelation to find where Levites worked "full time" in the temple ni? You too know bible more than that o.

Enigma: The problem with what you are saying so far is that the "tongues" in the two examples I gave i.e. Acts 10:46 and Acts 19:6 were not used to preach the gospel.

Are you now saying that the unknown tongues are also used to preach the gospel?

Also, you didn't deal with my other question: are the unknown tongues also human languages?

Did you read my post well? I didn't say so.....let me quote myself again. The "tongues" in Acts WERE USED TO SPREAD THE GOSPEL. There is an UNKNOWN tongues used in praying ONLY, not the KNOWN TONGUES USED WHEN THE CHURCH STARTED TO SPREAD THE GOSPEL.

Goshen360: The tongues spoken in Acts (both examples you gave) they are KNOWN tongues SPOKEN to preach on the message of the gospel. The gospel just started spreading at that time of the early stage of the church. My point is, Paul talked about "praying" in UNKNOWN tongues and it is UNTO God, NOT to man. If there is a well known tongues or language "spoken" in Acts and others heard it, it simply means that is a KNOWN as well as a SPOKEN tongues that people understand. This is the same one Paul was referring to when he said, when you "speak", you either interpret or someone interprets.

But when it comes to the one of "praying" to God, You don't need interpreter to God or to man. Paul said in this case, it is your spirit that prays and your understanding is unfruitful. This i dont believe it has or will cease. I believe the one in Acts had ceased because the bible had been translated into many languages now and if the bible is yet to be translated into ALL languages of the world, then it has not ceased yet but will cease after the whole world has the bible in ALL languages.

Ask me more if it is not yet clear sir.

ijawkid: @goshen....my bro they have all ceased...
Wether praying or speaking....all gifts of speaking in tongues have ceased...they'v been done away with..

Paul never distinguished tongues when he wrote those verses,I wonder where ur geting ur analogy from...

U guys have run away from d main reason why tongues we're giving as a gift and focusing on ur own presumpteous steps...

I can't believe u guys are now differentiating tongues.....
Where did u hear that??

Tongues is tongues....

The 1 all christians spoke @ pentecost is d same tongues paul was discussing in other parts of d scriptures....

They were all for a sign to unbelievers....

So d main focus was using those various tongues to spread d gospel,which d churches today can't do because d power is not there anymore..

And so u guys resort to speaking rubbish and call it tongue....


I won't argue this any further..

U can keep repeating in-cohorent words,blabbing over gibberish and then thinking its speaking in tongues....

The truth is clear....

Its all a scam....

Imagine people been taught how to speak in tongues!!!!

Some even have speaking in tongues classes!!!

Some have holy ghost classes!!!

Where in d bible were people taught hw to speak in tongues

Scam scam scam!!!!!!!!!!..

I'm off...

BUZUGEE where are u??

My brother, one thing is you need to cool down a bit. Okay. I will advice you to take different translations and study this subject. And please, don't just hold on to the fact that what you already know is TRUE and CORRECT. You must be willing to learn or open to other thought. I know fully that the speaking in Acts if for spreading the gospel. Weather that has ceased or not, the answer to that is HAS THE BIBLE BEING FULLY WRITTEN IN "ALL" LANGUAGES OF THE WORLD? If the answer to this question is YES. Then I am of the opinion that the Speaking HAS CEASED. But if the answer to the question is NO, then the Speaking in "different" languages has not ceased. Though it will cease. This is where we need to answer first.

Second, Paul made a clear distinction between "Speaking" and "praying". When you "speak", you speak unto men and if they don't understand you like people understand the Apostles in their own languagues in Acts, then YOU NEED AN INTERPRETER OR INTERPRET BY YOURSELF.

Therefore let him who speaks in a tongue pray that he may interpret. 1 cor 14:13 nkjv

When you "pray" in "unknown" tongues, you pray to God. This is "unknown" to the man praying because his understanding is unfruitful.

For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my understanding is unfruitful. 1 cor 14:14 nkjv

What kind of tongue is referred to here in 14:14, we look at the KJV

For if I pray in an [unknown] tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.

When something is UNKNOWN, it is simple UNKNOWN. It therefore means THERE IS KNOWN. The "known" tongues was manifested in the day of Pentecost but also, there is UNKNOWN tongues, ONLY TO BE USED IN PRAYING. The misuse or abuse is what am against in our churches.

I hope this is clear but if not, ask me more sir.

Enigma: Thanks again. But then again, what about the tongues in the two examples below; were they "praying tongues" or "speaking tongues"?

Were they used to "speak" or preach the gospel to anyone? Further, how do we know which is which?

Finally, is the "praying tongues" also human languages?

Acts 10:46

Acts 19:6

The tongues spoken in Acts (both examples you gave) they are KNOWN tongues SPOKEN to preach on the message of the gospel. The gospel just started spreading at that time of the early stage of the church. My point is, Paul talked about "praying" in UNKNOWN tongues and it is UNTO God, NOT to man. If there is a well known tongues or language "spoken" in Acts and others heard it, it simply means that is a KNOWN as well as a SPOKEN tongues that people understand. This is the same one Paul was referring to when he said, when you "speak", you either interpret or someone interprets.

But when it comes to the one of "praying" to God, You don't need interpreter to God or to man. Paul said in this case, it is your spirit that prays and your understanding is unfruitful. This i dont believe it has or will cease. I believe the one in Acts had ceased because the bible had been translated into many languages now and if the bible is yet to be translated into ALL languages of the world, then it has not ceased yet but will cease after the whole world has the bible in ALL languages.

Ask me more if it is not yet clear sir.