₦airaland Forum

Some people are not teaching scriptures no more but doctrine of men, that's what another man taught. ...doctrines of men and they want to use scriptures to justify what another man teaching because they believe in that man. Smh!!!

Image123:
You do not have the Spirit of God.

If you have the Spirit of God too, you'll not twist scriptures but agree with the TRUTH OF THE GOSPEL OF GOD.

chukkynwob:
Why do you always twist the bible? So even John d baptist,Isaiah,Jeremiah, David (a man after God's heart) e.t.c were all thieves.

This is quite alarming,the kind of heresy you propagate is absolutely ludicrous. Jeez!!!!!!

anukulapo:
@Goshen
PING!!!
Hope you'll be free very soon to come and respond to the questions you posted and the reactions that followed.

1. Those who came claiming to be the long-awaited Christ a possible example among whom was a Theudas whom Gamaliel spoke of as an example of a false starter (see Acts 5:34-39) and another Judas of Galilee also spoken of by the same person in the same place.
2. Because they claimed that which was not theirs - Messiahship - and tried to draw men after themselves, men whom God had given as an inheritance and a reward to His Christ.

anukulapo:
Here,we have two to compare (moses' and jesus' covenant). If the new (Jesus) said "ALL...",how can it be implied that the second (Moses) which is the old and singular is being refered to as "ALL..."?

Bidam:
are you using that scripture to imply that ALL the Prophets including Moses are thieves and robbers? This is incredulous.

Oh my goodness. Old thread. .. you people above trying to cover up plain statement from our Lord.

How in the world did I missed these posts? Okay, your answers are here people.

OLAADEGBU:
Since when has discussing topics become a legal contract? It's either you make your contribution if you have any or stay in your newly sniper mode status.

Coward. ...

You can do better than this. Okay. I'll take you up on both threads.

OLAADEGBU:
It's either you answer the question or not. Don't come here demanding legal contracts as conditions for debate.

I knew you're going to come up with something like this.

OLAADEGBU:
Just answer the question at hand since you are able to explain scripture by yourself without any help whatsoever

We can merge this thread and the other one together and discuss since they're both related. Same rules apply if you want us discuss and you agree to the terms as stated on the other thread.

Goshen360:
I will engage in this discussion on two grounds if you will agree to the terms stated below:

1. If you will not go to your regular website to copy and paste answers here.

2. We will get to the root of words and contextual usage or meaning as we explain scriptures.

3. You will answer my questions without evasion by style and support your answers with scripture. ...explaining such scriptures in context, if possible with word meanings.

If you agree to these, let me know and I'll be on watch out for your response and come back to the discussion.

OLAADEGBU:
Where is Goshen360 to answer the question posed to him? Has he gone MIA again?

I will engage in this discussion on two grounds if you will agree to the terms stated below:

1. If you will not go to your regular website to copy and paste answers here.

2. We will get to the root of words and contextual usage or meaning as we explain scriptures.

3. You will answer my questions without evasion by style and support your answers with scripture. ...explaining such scriptures in context, if possible with word meanings.

If you agree to these, let me know and I'll be on watch out for your response and come back to the discussion.

alabiyemmy:
If you dont understand that simple English, then you have a problem.

Dux01:
@goshen preaching Holiness as sinlessness is preaching it the way it was taught in the bible.John said that anybody that commits sin is of the devil.he said that anybody that is born of God doth not commit sin because God's sin remains in him.But he also said that if we sin he is faithful to forgive us and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.Jesus said that we should be perfect even as the Heavenly father is.He also said that the devil came to him and found nothing.Jesus wants us to be like that.the reason we repent daily is because we cannot be too clean to be washed by the blood beacause of our flesh.

Sir, kindly go back to I John and study again. He was writing to 3 categories of people. As "little children".....in faith or Christ, you will make mistakes or sin or make wrong choices. As a new born baby, you can put food in your eyes while trying to eat but when the effect take place, you will learn not to do so another day. Bottome line, grow up, from little children to fathers. Check how John addressed the "young men" and the "fathers" in Christ....if he was addressing same way. We're not justifying sin here but nowhere in scripture does holiness means or equal sinlessness. You can't do nothing to be holy but you are holy in Christ......meaning, you're sanctified, dedicated and separated unto God, through Christ. That's holiness.

If you want to be perfect as God. The day you attain that then you become God. Ask yourself, since you became born again, have you sinned? WILL you sin tomorrow and in future? If Holiness means sinlessness why do we keep asking for forgiveness of sins? I thought we're to be sinless. Again, the OP doesn't justify sin but the touch not, wear not, handle not doctrines of holiness preachers. Let's get away from this mentality of seeing sin virtually in everything a Christian does and get into more awareness of what Christ did for our righteousness before God.

14What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? 15Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. 16If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? 17In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.

18But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.”

Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. 19You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.

20You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless? 21Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. 23And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,” and he was called God’s friend. 24You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone.

James 2

Jame, the Apostle was simple teaching WORKS....that is produces by FAITH FIRST NOT WORKS THAT CAUSES US TO BE RIGHTEOUS. Let's look at it verse by verse.

v14: Faith that saves with corresponding actions\deeds\works. You already BELIEVE that feeding the poor is God's mind.....THAT IS YOUR FAITH but now, you see someone hungry but you tell him off, doing nothing while you can.....WHAT THEN IS THE EVIDENCE OF YOUR FAITH? This is not a doing you do to get favour from God, but a deed you do because you are already favoured and believe in God, to feed the poor. So, Jame, the Apostle said.....faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.

v18: We have to parrallel vs18 with what he started in the above verses: When he's talking about

But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.” Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds.

He actually was talking about I WILL SHOW YOU MY FAITH BY MY ACCOMPANIED ACTIONS....in verse 17.

vs20: Gives us a super clear picture again what James was teaching - THE EVIDENCE THAT ONE HAS FAITH OR THAT ONE BELIEVES. So he said, You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless?. Again, this is a deed following FAITH of someone NOT deeds to gain something.

Now, he went into same Abraham like Paul did and Jame quoting the same scriptures AS PAUL DID. Are the saying TWO DIFFERENT THINGS BY QUOTING SAME SCRIPTURES? Absolutely certainly NOT!!! Let's look at it.

vs21&22: The subject of Jame is still the same from beginning - Corresponding actions BECAUSE OF ONE'S FAITH OR BELIEVE. For Abraham, it was a FAITH that was made complete or accompanied by his corresponding actions....showing he already believed and his believe produced actions as evidence. It's just like someone said he used to be in the world and now a Christian and people don't see any difference in your life. There must be evidence of a new life.....which is the fruit of our new creation in Christ.

James went further quoting:

23And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,” and he was called God’s friend.

Abraham's declared righteous WAS NOT BECAUSE HE FIRST DID SOMETHING (WORKS\DEEDS) TO MAKE HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS HAPPEN but he did something BECAUSE HE FIRST BELIEVED AND\OR HAVE FAITH, that's what cause his righteousness before God else he would have his works to boast on. But his works\deeds that James was talking about is the same subject he's been saying from verse 14, that is a corresponding actions to faith that shows the evidence of our faith.

So he said, "You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone." This statement is best understood in context from what he's been saying as.....You see that a person is considered righteous by FAITH\BELIEVING (vs23) AND WHAT THEY DO AS ACCOMPANIED ACTION (vs17) or as evidence of their believing\faith (vs20) NOT by faith alone.

What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, discovered in this matter? Romans 4:1

First, Paul, the Apostle was about going into the issue of righteousness\justification by WORKS or BY FAITH\BELIEVING (in what Christ had done to make us righteous\justified). Notice, here, he, Paul was addressing the Jewish people who are soaked in WORKS......that is, DOING SOMETHING TO MAKE SOMETHING HAPPEN.....WORKS. So, he addressed them, Abraham our forefather ACCORDING TO THE FLESH. But Abraham is also father of THEM WHO ARE OF FAITH. So, Abraham is a two-fold man.

If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about--but not before God.

We must understand that WORKS is always used in TWO ways in scriptures - WORKS, doing something TO MAKE SOMETHING HAPPEN. 2. Works, doing something BECAUSE YOU BELIEVED IN SOMETHING or because SOMETHING HAD ALREADY HAPPENED. I will show these TWO WORKS from scriptures as I proceed.

Here, works....doing something to make something happen is always followed by boasting by the man who does such works. This is the case Paul was teaching about Abraham. If he was justified BY WORKS (DOING SOMETHING TO MAKE HIS JUSTIFICATION HAPPEN), then he will have something to boast of.

What does Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness."

The clear truth here is, BELIEVING GOD CAUSED ABRAHAM'S JUSTIFICATION AND RIGHTEOUSNESS BEFORE GOD. Plain and simple!!!

Paul, the Apostle went further....

New International Version
Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation.

New Living Translation
When people work, their wages are not a gift, but something they have earned.

New International Version
However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness.

New Living Translation
But people are counted as righteous, not because of their work, but because of their faith in God who forgives sinners.

New International Version
David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the one to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:

New Living Translation
David also spoke of this when he described the happiness of those who are declared righteous without working for it:

So, in all the above scriptures, are we DOING SOMETHING FOR\TO EARN OUR JUSTIFICATION AND RIGHTEOUSNESS OR WE ARE DOING SOMETHING BECAUSE WE ARE ALREADY JUSTIFIED AND DECLARED RIGHTEOUS?

Now, let's see what James (that italo ALWAYS hang on to teach his works based teachings)

@ dein77,

I had to quit the thread too because arguing with italo is just a different experience every time I engage in it. But before I go finally, we'll all look at what James was saying compared to what other authors said BY THE SAME SPIRIT OF GOD.

I will post it soon and possibly answer some questions directed at me, if I still have time.

italo:
Striving against sin is part of holiness.

Striving to do good always is part of holiness.

These are the things that you scammers avoid.

Show me where I said "holiness=sinlessness!"

Really? Since striving against sin is part of holiness.....have YOU stopped sinning since you're striving and since you came to Christ? And where is that supported in scriptures?

Striving to do good work, even though I support doing good as taught by scriptures; but how does doing good PART OF HOLINESS? Where is that supported in scriptures?

You don't preach holiness as sinlessness but you support the holiness movement which the OP is all about, not that he endorse sin.

Horluwahighdee:
ok thanks sir i now wants to re dedicate my life to christ can u help me with prayers..

The brother had given you practical steps. Please follow it and monitor how it helps. More importantly, grace is sufficient in time of need.

Also, sin is sin and sin is an infection in Christians but sin doesn't not Un born again you. Religion tells you to re dedicate your life, whatever that means but scripture say, you're not unborn again child of God. Make correction and yield to the Holy Spirit instead of submitting to desires of the flesh.

Those who are trying be justify by keeping the law (including paying first fruit) are falling from Grace. First fruit is a type and shadow under the law and Christ already fulfilled it, you're not required to fulfill what's already done by Christ.

Remain blessed.

christemmbassey:
where do our national trearure looters/armed robbers/theives/scammers/yahoo boys pay their ioots?

I tried calling you last week as promised. Your phone was switched off or not available. I can still call you now if you send me email to show your phone is available and we can talk.

YorubaJesus:
Maybe tithing is not in the bible or part of Gods plans for us, I do not know. I don't pay tithes in church but I help people in need and watch my tithe put smiles on peoples face. Afterall its my tithe, I do with it as I please.

The question remains though, where do churches pay tithes?

You can help people with certain percentage of your income, not necessarily your tithes. You're doing God's will, not that you're practicing tithing. What you're doing is called TRUE AND PURE RELIGION and such is the will of the Father but every time you do that, stop considering it as paying tithe; it's a sign of those under the law. Grace let's you give out of love and the fact that God had already blessed you so you can bless others in need.

Back to your question, churches are not meant to collect tithe from nobody so the question of where they pay tithe so if at all they should, it should be TAXES to the government.

If churches are modeling the biblical tithe, there shouldn't be rate of poverty in today's churches but because they use monetary tithe to support extravagant lifestyle of the church CEOs, then they should pay TAXES to the government.

The church need money to operate certain issues but the church is too aggressive on money issues. The Apostles taught financial needs in the church but they never was aggressive about it but rather, worked with their hands to help the ones in need.

What does today's church do? The give false hope to those in need, telling them to use faith by sowing seeds while the ones sowing seeds are jobless and can't provide for their needs.

The church has lost the mandate of Christ. Feed my sheep Jesus said to Peter. Pastors are shepherds. You can't be a pastor and don't feed the sheep but you can feed the sheep without being a pastor.

YorubaJesus:
Back then the agric produce was what brought the income though. God might have asked other people to tithe as well but only the Jews listened.

If what you said above is true. Then you will have to show how and when in the bible same God converted the agricultural produce into money. Money existed from Genesis but God never demanded tithe of monetary income but agricultural products. The reason is, man or Israel as we know like to take credit for their works. ...but agricultural products are what God himself caused to increase but money is reward for Labour or wages for what you worked for. ...so in income, you earn it because you worked for it.

Years after tithe was instituted and Christ came, talking to the scribes and pharisees, look at it yourself in Matthew 23:23; it was still agricultural products. We're tired of this tithe fraud in the church of Christ. Leave religion alone and study the word yourself, stop holding to traditions of men by which you make the word of God of non effect. Christ never preached tithe, never collected tithe, Apostles and early churches never paid nor collect tithe. Who do you follow or model your christianity after? Christ or men? Question most things you've been taught and you will come to the light of knowledge of truth.

Branzy:
If u ave attended any new generational Pentecostal church you will understand what i mean with the term seed

We know all their gimmicks. They can call it whatsoever they so desire but we know what the bible called the seed. Relax and enjoy your day.

Bobbysworld28:
What do they mean by seed? R they farmers? Besides the seed Jesus talked about is the word of God. Luke 8:11

or maybe he's talking about mango seed.

Context is the key to your question. He was talking about any gospel contrary to the gospel of Grace and the finished works of Christ....which is gospel of law keeping for justification. Study and follow the context of what he was teaching, you will understand.

If 124 pages of tithe argument does nothing to change these guys from Judaism to Christianity, I don't know what else will change them....maybe except if their god fathers and demi gods change one day, maybe they will change since they don't follow Christ but men, copying web-links and teaching doctrines of men.

It doesn't worth it no more helping some heart hardened fellow to promote\increase pages of thread that the truth had been revealed already. He will leave the thread for sometime and return with some kind of link and nonsense quotes to promote this knocked out thread. I guess this will be my last comment on this thread.

italo:
Ah! Even if you use private jet to launder money to South Africa, it doesn't matter. You're holy and heaven-bound.

"Away from me, you workers og iniquity. I never knew you"

^^^That is the cry from the master.

We do NOT take sides with sin neither do we support sinful acts but you know sin comes in different forms.....in thought, acts and words. So the fact that a man doesn't committ sin in act doesn't mean he don't committ it in thought or words.

These holiness preachers see sin virtually in everything a christian does. They teach and carry sin consciousness everywhere rather than teaching and carrying Christ righteousness everywhere.

What we're asking YOU to do is show us where HOLINESS means\or equal to SINLESSNESS.....if you are part of the "holiness" movement.

Holiness doesn't mean sinlessness. They're preaching holiness as sinlessness but they still ask for forgiveness of sin. In Christ, we're holy......meaning SEPARATED UNTIL GOD AND DEDICATED UNTO GOD.

OLAADEGBU:
How long will it take you to be back? Could be a tactical withdrawal?

When I return, you can't discuss scripture by yourself.

OLAADEGBU:
Don't expect Goshen to answer you any time soon.

Just like you run from some thread and come with some links. You can't discuss scripture by yourself without referring to one link or another.

I'm Goshen360 and I ENDORSE this message.