₦airaland Forum

Frosbel,

Let's do some troubleshooting here:

God a forehand preached the gospel to Abraham.

What gospel was it that was preached to Abraham? The one that Jesus preached or the death, burial and resurrection of Christ?

I vote striktlytmi

Thanks @ everyone. All nominees accepted their nominations. We should move on to vote one more WHILE we await the topics from D'boy, both of us have concluded on the topics and D'boy will list them out soon.

Thank you all.

Frosbel,

The gospel is one at a given time (dispensation). You have to study what it is at each dispensation and what it is now.

The central theme of the gospel is the too good to be true news of God.

I'm interested in this discussion.

AdeniyiA: Having spiritual insights nd divine revelations. Not to be controlled by flesh or feelings. Not to wholly depend on our own interpretations of the Bible knowing that they have or there are limitations.
Knowing that the spiritual controls the physical, that whatever happens in the physical is a manifestation of wat had already taken place in the spirit.

How did you arrive at those meanings or interpretations please?

@ oluwamitomisin,

King James Bible
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.

The key words here are:

Destroy & Fulfill

1. The word "destroy" is the Greek word, katalyō and it only means one thing but used in many ways. From the Greek concordance, it means, to dissolve, disunite, from here: http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/Lexicon/Lexicon.cfm?strongs=G2647&t=KJV and used in the following ways:

what has been joined together), to destroy, demolish

metaph. to overthrow i.e. render vain, deprive of success, bring to naught

to subvert, overthrow

of institutions, forms of government, laws, etc., to deprive of force, annul, abrogate, discard

of travellers, to halt on a journey, to put up, lodge (the figurative expression originating in the circumstance that, to put up for the night, the straps and packs of the beasts of burden are unbound and taken off; or, more correctly from the fact that the traveller's garments, tied up when he is on the journey, are unloosed at it end)

2. The word fulfill is the Greek word plēroō and it means:

to make full, to fill up, i.e. to fill to the full

to cause to abound, to furnish or supply liberally

I abound, I am liberally supplied

to render full, i.e. to complete

to fill to the top: so that nothing shall be wanting to full measure, fill to the brim

to consummate: a number

to make complete in every particular, to render perfect

to carry through to the end, to accomplish, carry out, (some undertaking)

to carry into effect, bring to realisation, realise

of matters of duty: to perform, execute

of sayings, promises, prophecies, to bring to pass, ratify, accomplish

to fulfil, i.e. to cause God's will (as made known in the law) to be obeyed as it should be, and God's promises (given through the prophets) to receive fulfilment

... from here, bible concordance of the Greek word: http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/Lexicon/Lexicon.cfm?strongs=G4137&t=KJV

Investigating this word means, certain things IN THE LAW AND PROPHETS were said or written about Christ THAT HE CAME TO FULFILL....to bring to pass. When this fulfillment is done, the purpose of the law and the prophet is then complete because that's the purpose for which Christ said he came.


So what that text is saying is,

King James Bible
Think not that I am come to destroy to dissolve, disunite the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy to dissolve, disunite, but to fulfill to bring to pass, ratify, accomplish, to make complete in every particular, to render perfect, to carry through to the end, to accomplish, carry out, (some undertaking), to carry into effect, bring to realisation, realise, of matters of duty: to perform, execute.

To further the investigation, that certain things in the law (of Moses) and the prophets were said about him that he came to fulfill, Christ himself made this statement:

King James Bible
And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

That verse is not saying Christ came to extend the law keeping to Christians neither is it promoting continuous keeping of the law of Moses. His acts, death, burial and resurrection is the means to fulfilling WHAT THE LAW AND PROPHETS SAID CONCERNING HIM which fulfilled. When such is done, the purpose of the law and prophets is complete and ended because it is already fulfilled.

So what then do we have after his death, burial and resurrection?

New Living Translation
For Christ has already accomplished the purpose for which the law was given. As a result, all who believe in him are made right with God.

English Standard Version
For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

New American Standard Bible
For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

King James Bible
For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Reasoning with the Holy Spirit:

With the law, there're a debt and when such debt is paid by Christ, do we still owe any debt to the law of Moses?

AdeniyiA: Examining or questioning the Bible using human knowledge or understanding only further aggravate our non spirituality nd makes us manipulatable by d devil.
Some are confused because their brains tell them that some Bible passages are contradictory. Romans 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Most passages of the Bible are written in/wt proverbs,such that the spiritual interpretation of one verse could give you a 500page book...

1. What does it mean to be spiritual or give spiritual interpretation?
2. What does it mean to be spiritually minded vs carnally minded?

@ oluwamitomisin,

1. The questioning of this statement are:

a - If Christ actually came to fulfill the law, why do we still need to keep it?

b - How do we actually understand what is said? that is, what is meant by "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets" vs "I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil" because, this statement seem like a contradiction to some practices Jesus violated certain laws of Moses. However, we can also question or get answers to why violations to those certain laws is no sin by Christ because there's no law stating any regulations concerning those areas. E.g: The law said people like the woman caught in adultery should be stoned to death. The law only made provision to those who're caught in adultery but didn't say nothing about anyone who forgives one caught in adultery. Therefore, he didn't allowed the woman to be stoned, violating that law of who's caught in adultery but the law concerning whoever let go who's caught in adultery, there's nothing said on that so we can't press charges on where a law is absent.

2. The investigation leading to understanding on what was said in context is:

a - The bible is not first written in KJV but originally in Hebrew and Greek
b - We should investigate the words used and their meanings vs what is said.
c. Misunderstanding comes from reading into text rather than seeking meanings in context to get understand plus the questioning.
d - I always use the Greek and Hebrew word meanings and key them back into the context, plus the questionings and reasoning with the Holy Spirit to learn the truth.

So, let's see how we can put all these together.

Alishachris: all these you are calling are religions. Man made and fallible. The Word of God is not a religion. Christianity is not a religion. Read your bible and follow your own personal revelations about the spirit. We all experience the spirit and God in our own individual ways. Peace.

I agree. So can we begin to question some things in the bible now as per the OP?....so we can fellowship in the word? I will begin to bring up some scriptures and we can question them one after the other? If you don't mind.

OLAADEGBU: I stand on Christ the solid rock, all other grounds are sinking sands.

Abeg comot for road joor. Quit dancing around. Address what I said. You know God is against being cold nor hot. There's no middle ground in Christ.

Alishachris: of course not. There is no discord in the spirit for the Spirit and the Word is one! peace.

So then, it is not out of place to question @ Deeplife vs Mountain of Fire if we have contradictions from same bible right?

frosbel: Precisely my problem .

Why for example will a Pastor or priest put fear into their sheep to ensure they question scripture only according to their denominational beliefs and everything else is either blasphemy or a sign of backsliding ?

It really bothers me that the average Nigerian Christian is not at all like the berean who questioned everything , instead he follows his pastors own interpretation of scripture not knowing if it is valid or not. Hence we have over 42,000 denominations each with it's own understanding of some portion of the scripture while referring to others as heretics.

Brother frosbel, look into the word. Babylon means confusion and there's Babylon spirit in the church today.

Alishachris: its not a sin. As long as you question with an unbiased and open mind. The spirit will reveal the mysteries to you. And when it does, dont try to hold back or doubt. Peace

Let's put in this way.....as we're reasoning together in the word. Can the Spirit tell Deeper Life something and tell RCCG another different thing?

OLAADEGBU: Let me leave you with the words of D.L. Moody who said: "The Law can only chase a man to Calvary, no further"

Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the Law therefore we are no longer in bondage to it. And if we try to keep one part of the Law by the love for the redeemer as you put it, we are then obligated to keep the whole Law, including the 613 precepts (Read Galatians 3:10).

You sef, I tire for you sometimes, one time you will be for the law,another time partial and another time, against keeping the law. Where you stand sef? Lemme put it in another way, the Law is like a mirror, it shows you the spot on your face but it doesn't remove the spot.

paulcr7: I when d law leads a man to christ,it does nt make him the same infidel he always is for then salvation has no meaning.if Christianity is a religion that will turn people from ignorant sinners to knowledgeable lawless infidel,then we have no message.'The world has seen how d blood of Christ saves us from d guilt of sin,they want to know how it saves us from d power of sin'.The 613 moral codes are rabbinic exagerations,d 10 commandments and d teachings of Christ on them arewhat i mean by d law.remember,christian faith is active nt passive.only those who do his will nt to be saved but because they are already saved by his grace with d power of a new pure life wij reign with him.THIS IS MY LAST POST,I WISH U WELL

It can't be your last post sir. You can't say things and when we need you to answer some questions on what you said, you then want to leave. It doesn't work that way. While I agree with most things you said above as quoted, I will like to ask, how are the 613 "rabbinical exaggerations"? Do you mean, it wasn't God who gave those 613?

Aidy97: Na dis kin thing dy make FP so dt ppl can argue

Maybe your wishes might come true....Frontpage please @ Moderator. Ermmm, by the way, we can argue to set people free. In the cause of arguing, some people will be open minded and flow along the conversation. Can we discuss the OP please?

^ Mostly, I have learnt that religion will read into the bible text, instead of allowing the verse speak for itself in line with another verse. Lemme give example, one verse that is and is still causing problem in Christianity today:

New American Standard Bible
"Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.

People use this text to justify keeping the law (of Moses...which they cannot keep in the first place). When I did a thorough investigation, my whole life changed.

This statement when questioned, investigated and thoroughly stretched out, we will understand what Christ meant. Babylon is deeply working in the church today and we must get rid of it.

I'm mostly (not in all cases though) with you in not being dogmatic about doctrines. Every Christian is to question (by questioning, I mean, asking our teacher, the Holy Spirit questions and\or our ministry teachers) what they learn or are being taught. Every Christian is to investigate thoroughly every verse and line by line.

You won't believe how I'm being to spot errors out of what I've been taught as a young Christian when I started investigation many scriptures, using word meanings as used in context. Christianity is further made easy for me and living the life of the Spirit is freely flowing in my Christian life.

It is religious spirit that often raises alarm when somethings are questioned. Whether the one questioning is right or wrong, it is important for the other party to take a look at what is said and consider it. But most will rather believe their MoG is right and cannot be wrong because they feel such MoG is anointed, so cannot be wrong.

I join hand with you, frosbel in the Spirit to call on every Christian on this forum to begin to investigate every scripture, dig into it and question things we're taught when we're young Christians. Many will be shocked what they will discover.

I believe one of the best tool to use to investigate bible verses as used in context is the bible concordance that tells us what the original words meant in context.

ihedinobi2: I accept and confirm my nomination. Thank you too.

Alwaystrue: Thanks to all that nominated me (@Alexleo, @Ayoku, @Striktlymi, @joshthefirst, @ichuka) and I accept and confirm as @Goshen has requested to interact with you and others that day. Happy to fellowship with you in line with God's word.
@ Goshen,
I await the topic.

We thank you both for accepting and confirming your nominations. You're blessed in Christ.

DrummaBoy: Do we agree to another round of voting among the four?

If I do not have any other suggestion by 8am tomorrow, I will accept alexleo suggestion for voting among the four. Voting among them will end by 8pm tomorrow.

I think we should wait for the nominated 8 to ACCEPT and CONFIRM their nominations so we know we only have to vote one more....assuming all the 8 of them ACCEPT and CONFIRM their nominations. If 1 or 2 don't accept their nomination, we will have to nominate from the 4 candidates to make up the 9 speakers. If all the 8 of them accept their nominations, then we can vote one more within 24 hours.

MarkMiwerds: I accept the nomination.

Thank you sir.

DrummaBoy: [size=20pt] PROPOSED PRESENTERS AT GRACE CONVENTION 2014[/size]
1. Yooguyz
2. Ihedinobi2
3. MrAnony1
4. PastorOluT
5. Alwaystrue
6. BabaGnoni
7. trustman
8. MarkMiwerds
9. ... pending

We hereby call on the above nominees to ACCEPT and CONFIRM their nomination as invited speakers for the 2014 Grace Convention.

Thank you!!!

Image123: i don't get it. What makes anyone my daddy g.o? What makes my daddy g.o my favorite man of God?
When did Adeboye make a statement? What did you come up with when or if he made a statement? Are you omniscient?

Keep playing games and jumping around. Everyone knows who you are. Keep asking me when Adeboye made such statement and when this, when that. You are known to defend Adeboye with all kinds of twisting and gimmicks.

Image123: Show how i am partial please. And who is my favorite man of God.

You know who I'm talking about - Your Daddy G.O When Adeboye made that statement, what did you come up with? He's wrong?

Image123: You fellows are very frequent accusers. Beware, accusation is two ways, you MAY BE wrong or right. False witness or false accusation is still a sin in the new testament period.
i don't know what you're talking about BTW.

What I'm saying is, speak the truth even when your "favourite" man of God make unhealthy statements. Don't be partial, half truth is as good as speaking lies.

nora544: And who brought the money issue into the church, the pastors from the new churches!!!!!!!!! With their lifestile!!!!!!!!!!!

I only remember who can give me 10 Million naira he will see me
who will give 1 million nair will see my seretary
who will give me 100 000 naira will see........

that is the beginning of the problem!!!!!!!!!!!!

We know who made those statement but Image123 so respect the "anointed man of God" that he can't even tell the truth the man is wrong. Holding the word of truth in hypocrisy

By the time BabaGnoni finishes all those outline, ground so shake o. Ol boy, you go fear step-by-step teaching naw.

BabaGnoni: "accidental" as in unintentionally publishing the post.
The unfinished post got published after a fat finger hit the submit key at the wrong time
- similar to a mopol accidentally discharging a weapon

^

@ D'boy,

Anony1 was automatically among the speakers because of his interest. I think you're wasting vote by nominating him again. I suggest you think of someone esle.

I nominate:

1. ichuka
2. PastorOluT

striktlymi: @Bold: Goshen has already introduced the 'first 3' as guest speakers. Subjecting them to the nomination process may not be necessary.

You're right!!! Those 3 shouldn't be subject to nomination.

Those 3 people were nominated, not by me but because they were the 3 that indicated interest readily and so, automatically became enlisted. Our number of speakers is 9. We need 6 more to add to those 3 and if we have more than 9. Two things can happen - we either fit fit the number we have in or we go with highest number of nominees to eliminate few so we stay with 9 speakers.

Tgirl4real: U mean it's that simple?! Lol

How are u too sir? OK o. I go dey expect.

@ Drummerboy,

May be we should nominate or vote instead of likes.

I would like to nominate Candour, Enigma and Anony1 (hope I got it right). Ermm... Don't we have female posters in this section?

I don't think Enigma will show up. I think he's no longer interested in nairaland according to some of his past statement.

Plus, you're to nominate not more than two ma. So we count Candour because among your nominees, Anony1 is already showing interest. We will vote when we have more than 9 people nominated after counting out the highest nominees.

Do you understand or I should explain further with illustrations?