₦airaland Forum

First, I'll like to thank my brother, DrummaBoy for always having my back on project like this due to the fact he understand my busy schedule. God bless him much

2. I will like to take the honor and permission of all to announce the general theme under which the speakers of this year's convention will be speaking.

3. I will like us to agree how many days and sessions in each day we will have and this will determine how many speakers will will all nominate. For instance, if we agree 3 days and 3 sessions for each day, it means we will have 9 speakers and so, we much nominate 9 speakers.

4. After we conclude on (3) above, we will move to suggested topics. DrummaBoy & I will then work on those topics to see who speak on what topic or the other.

5. I will proceed to add to the list of speakers DrummaBoy already suggested and we can move on to nomination.

We have many things to deal with in this thread....I tell y'all honestly.

torchwave has been making his teaching look like God had a seperate way(s) of SPEAKING to us TODAY. Lemme say this, everything God had to say is already said and wrapped in ONE source - HIS SON. Again, what torchwave is saying is a set of truth for the people of old covenant, NOT A COMPLETE TRUTH for us, under the new covenant. God doesn't call people out of the mountain like he did to Moses and some old testament prophets. Torchwave is only presenting a mixture teaching - what was obtainable under the old and apply to the new covenant Christians.

Hebrews 1:1-2. Living Bible (TLB)

1 Long ago God spoke in many different ways to our fathers through the prophets, in visions, dreams, and even face to face,[a] telling them little by little about his plans.

2 But now in these days he has spoken to us through his Son to whom he has given everything and through whom he made the world and everything there is.

People take scriptures like Jeremiah 1:5 to justify their callings. What was said here in Jeremiah 1:5 wasn't said to any other man but to Jeremiah. It wasn't the call or calling of Goshen or any other man, but Jeremiah's. Under the new covenant, every Christian is called but sent to do different thing. Your assignment (what you sent to do) varies in the gift (tools) you're endowed to work with. These is where the ministry gift comes in, teacher, apostle, evangelist, giving ministry, administrative, etc.

Lastly, Romans 8:30 completes and end this argument - Does it apply to leadership\ministry gifts only or to all Christians?

New International Version
And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.

New Living Translation
And having chosen them, he called them to come to him. And having called them, he gave them right standing with himself. And having given them right standing, he gave them his glory.

Every Christian that have come to Christ had yielded to the calling under a new testament. In Christ, you then find your gifting and assignment.

Image123: It's not always about an audience, do you fear God?

By the "fear" of God, what do you mean? There's no fear in love and perfect love cast out fear. You're suppose to have grown in the word. You keep using old to explain new (complete and better) testament\covenant or just simply mixing both and confusing yourself.

DrummaBoy: I like the idea of opening it up to the naira land public. The last one generated some heat bc folks felt left out. We can open a thread, ask people to nominate topics and even speakers and then we can moderate. That way, despite your busy schedule, the convention will host itself.

That will be fine bro.

DrummaBoy: Goshen360

I thought to send you a PM but on a second thought decided to discuss it publicly.

It is about one year ago we organized a Grace Convention. What plans do you have towards another convention this year?

I have some more in mind but time is the issue. We might set up an organizing committee and also do a nomination thread for the speakers.....so we can carry people along. You can PM me still and\or I might give you a call.

JMAN05: Please try and research how the bible used the word "calling", if not this discussion wont end. Quote where the bible used calling to refer to the gift. Ephesians you quoted show it to be a gift not a calling.

Thank you bro. The brother you talking to is just not getting it so I stopped talking to him. In today's Christianity, people "choose" what they want to believe and discard the truth in their face. Many had been wrongly taught but refused to admit the fact they're wrongly taught but will never take a second thought to pause and take a second look by themselves when they become mature in the faith. I was also taught the same thing torchwave was teaching and I can recognize it.

Bidam: GRACE has always been there.The words yu said here has been what i have been saying all along.,,Maybe you do not like the way and manner in which i said it. The truth of the matter is that anti tithing campaigns have not inspired an increased or healthy giving in the body of Christ nt even in the USA where u base.

First, it has freed people from demands of the law and lunched them into a grace based giving. People can now give whatever they have from a sincere heart and without being coerced.

What I'm saying is, it is not the example Paul drew that he concluded on but the grace based giving.....remember, book of corinthians doesn't end in that chapter where he talked about giving to those who minister the gospel. I have to go to work now, talk to you another time brother. Stay graceful.

Bidam: good to see u bro.hope you are good.Christians in the NT can draw guidelines from the OT scriptures for practical giving TODAY.That does not mean we therefore come under the operation of the old covenant of judaism.NO rather just as apostle Paul drew largely from the levetical system in the law of Moses to teach about giving for ministers of the gospel,so it is ON THE SAME PRINCIPLE that many christians express their givings in the form of tithes in their churches.

Well thanks for the brotherly advice,i have been studying my bible and i also hope you take your own piece of advice and study too,.Cheers

That scripture that talks about "giving to those ministers of the gospel" is grossly abused and taken out of context. Please, investigate that scripture and see if that temple system still applies today for the SAME principles to also apply. Paul, also mentioned a giving that is from the cheerful heart, is tithe an example of such or of a commandment, convenient or not?

So, what happened was, Paul, drew example to parallel a grace based giving under the new agreement of grace. You can't live in the USA and operate by the rules, regualations and laws of Nigeria. Also, there're examples in the old but we can't make our balance with them of old. Scripture says, without us whom Christ died, they of old are imperfect\not complete....we're complete in Christ.

Bidam: very hilarious wetin peson no go see for nairaland

Long time my brother.

You've discovered the law and Grace don't mix together. Are you still isolating only tithe from the law as something you don't wanna do away with? Grace based giving had met the demands of the law. Your Christian life must be completely ruled by the Grace of God, not just some aspects. Take more time, back out of teachings you've absorbed in the past and spend more time in the school of the Spirit where there's illumination and freedom of Christ.

torchwave: I said I'd further explain the methods through which God's Calling is known to the people He has chosen, so here it is.

A. Revelation knowledge from God Himself: This means God making known His Calling to the individual. He could choose to talk to the person through an audible voice or through the still small voice; whichever way, He makes His Calling and plans known to the person. In that case, it doesn't matter where the person may be. He or she may be alone or among family or friends or on their way to a place when the voice of God comes into their consciousness, but they (the ones being called) are the only ones who hear the voice.

B. Personal Prophecy: This is the most common method of knowing the mind of God concerning an individual. God's Calling to people can also be known through individuals with the gift of prophecy. He also makes known His Calling or intentions to those He calls through someone operating the gift of prophecy. Like I said, it is the most common method of knowing if one is called or not. For it to be reliable, it should be confirmed by different Christians or Leaders with the same gift of prophecy because in the mouths of two or three witnesses a word is confirmed. @ Weah96, this is where direct revelation knowledge from God differs from personal prophecy though both are from God.

C. Dreams: Another way by which God makes known His Calling to people is through dreams. When they were very young, many Pastors, Apostles Prophets and Evangelists received dreams from God indicating they were called to be servants of God. It is not unusual for them to receive such kind of dreams repeatedly over the years. A very funny fact is that if they were the kind of people who normally have difficulty recalling their dreams after they are awake, they will always recall the dreams related to their Calling accurately.

D. Vision: this is another method by which God makes His Calling known to the individuals He has chosen into the fivefold ministry. The vision usually comes to the individual unexpectedly. The person will not be aware of his surroundings and may find it difficult to understand the meaning of the pictures before him or her, but one thing is certain, he/she will see himself or herself ministering to a large crowd of people, performing healings by the Spirit of God, people rising from wheelchairs, the blind receiving their sight, and many creative miracles taking place in the gathering. Such people would keep their visions to themselves for fear of being labeled crazy and would seek someone they can confide in, someone they can trust to listen to them before they can open up concerning their visions.

No matter the method God chooses to make His Calling known, it is dangerous to rely on your experience alone. You could be walking in the imagination of your heart or, worse, be deceived by a lying spirit. That's why it is pertinent to confirm the Calling through other Spirit-filled Christian Leaders to be safe and certain of the Calling from God. Remember, the Word says, 'In the multitude of counselors, there is safety.'

DEagle1, once again you're welcome. I hope this explanation of the methods is helpful in understanding how God calls people into the ministry.

All of these said void of one single bible verse? You try no be small.

torchwave: They are ministry gifts but they are also Callings. They are given to some, not all. They are given to some people without their asking as God sees fit, something present with them at birth. Any Calling into the fivefold ministry is the grace of God to the Church.

They're ministry GIFT.....and they're also callings. Can it be white and also black? Many things we're wrong taught but we questioned none, that was when we're children. This might be a play on words depending on your understanding but speak bible language.

They are given to some, not all.>>>>>>If they are given to some...what is it? Calling or GIFT? Reconcile this your statement here below:

torchwave: Everybody is called but very few are chosen by God into the fivefold ministry.

. Each one of the fivefold ministry is A GIFT....for purpose of ministering to God's people. That's why it is called ministry gift. You just said everyone is called....into the one fold and body of Christ but what each person is assigned to do is not the calling anymore because we are all called but it is what we're SENT to do....an assignment within the body we're called into. It's as simple as that.

torchwave: They are given to some people without their asking as God sees fit, something present with them at birth. Any Calling into the fivefold ministry is the grace of God to the Church.

Grace is what is given to all Christians and if you're saying it is given to some without asking, then you're saying all men have the ministry gift. If they're grace of God to the church, that will mean every Christian is functioning under one fivefold ministry or another but scripture proves you wrong>>>>>>Are they all prophets? Are they all apostles?....they answer is no.

2. It is wrong to measure old testament heroes with the standard of new creatures - Scripture says, without us (who Christ died for), the old testament heroes cannot be complete\made perfect. Hebrews 11:40. You'll have to show a scripture that a new testament believer can have calling from birth, otherwise, I don't buy into that and don't believe such teachings.

Please follow this same discourse here: https://www.nairaland.com/1809614/pastor-called

There's nothing like "special" calling for any man in the new testament. Any man that says he's called into ministry is either ignorant or a liar. Every Christian is called but what you're "sent" to do is what differs. A pastor is not a title, neither is a prophet but it is ministry GIFT by Christ to the church.

Also, permit me to say this: 90% of what the institutionalized church taught us is wrong. We need to sit down with the word ourselves and give ourselves to ministry of the word and prayers.

New American Standard Bible
"But we will devote ourselves to prayer and to the ministry of the word."

King James Bible
But we will give ourselves continually to prayer, and to the ministry of the word.

Joagbaje: That's called to be saints. We are all called to be saints. This is different from the calling into an office of ministry gift. As pastor prophet apostle evangelist and teacher.

I can't understand what you're trying to twist here. You just called it "ministry gift" or "office". The man is already called just as every Christian, he was just given a gift to function in ministry. Is that a special calling?

International Standard Version
And it is he who gifted some to be apostles, others to be prophets, others to be evangelists, and still others to be pastors and teachers,

New Living Translation
Now these are the gifts Christ gave to the church: the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, and the pastors and teachers.

He never said they were "called" as apostles but were gifted (spiritually), just like someone is gifted to sing or compose songs.

Joagbaje: There is . God gives different abilities and also There's leadership structure in the kingdom of God. Offices that God call certain into. Everybody is not there . Every Nigeria can't be president but every Nigeria president is a Nigerian .

The same thing I'm saying - Every Christian is already called including the pastors. The pastoral function is a gifted function given by Christ to the church, just as someone gifted to teach the word. So, every Christian is called but not every Christian is a teacher. Those who are e.g teachers, are gifted by Christ to do so.

Joagbaje: That different assignment is what the calling is. So there is ability part and there's leadership part.
1 Corinthians 12:28-30
And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues. Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles? Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?

Again, you're twisting this plain English. He didn't say the "called as" apostles. It is the same apostles, prophets, teachers etc that is being repeated which was stated as gifts of Christ to the church in the verse above. They are all called already but the scripture said, "set some in the church" that is, they're gifted, set apart unto a particular gift which they will function in, they're sent...within their calling to be what they're gifted to do. The verse you quoted kept saying, gift (have all the GIFT of healing?) but you kept saying that's the calling.

saintlawr: this letter was addressed to Christians in Corinth
1 Corinthians 16:22
If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be ANATHEMA Maranatha. the Greek word for Anathema is thesame as curse in
Acts 23:14
And they came to the chief priests and elders, and said, We have bound ourselves under a great CURSE, that we will eat nothing until we have slain Paul.
SO A CHRISTIAN CAN BE CURSE IF HE DOES WHAT ATTRACT CURSE

Put it this way, you're a father and your son does something that attract a curse, will you curse him? If God already poured out all curses on Christ, will he still pour out curses on us?

2. Acts 23:14 - When KJV tells you something, you should try investigate the word. That's what I'm getting into now by the help of the Spirit. Try read many other translations here: http://biblehub.com/acts/23-14.htm of the same Acts 23:14 and see what they say. If you're not satisfy, try get into word meanings and see how you err interpreting that verse.

3. 1 Corinthians 16:22 - We're talking about generational curses here my brother. The RCCG are taught that God can punish sins of a father on children and generational curses can be on a Christian after coming to Christ. This right there is an insult to the blood and redemptive works of Christ.

The problem here is, one word can mean different things in context. Just like you quoted Acts 23:14 and said it's the same word but it doesn't say or mean those people placed a curse (or spell) on themselves but they entered a solemn oat as a bound. More or less like a covenant that if we don't do this, let this and that happen to us.

1 Corinthians 16:22 - the word "cursed" in that context means - to be separated from God and headed for doom\destructions. Paul is not placing a curse or spell on Christians here. Rather, Paul, the Apostle was teaching\explaining the same thing as he taught in 1 Corinthians 5:5, handing someone over to Satan by throwing him out. Remember, letter to the Corinthians doesn't start and end with chapter 16. It's a teaching that is on-going from chapter 1.

3(b). To help you understand what I'm saying about same word, different meanings. How will you interpret this verse: 1 Corinthians 12:3

Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

Does this mean, Christ is accursed? Afterall, it's the same word used in 1 Corinthians 16:22 you quoted. Context is the key brother. We can still look at it together the more, it you're willing.

Joagbaje: Go to the bible and find who does the calling on ministers.

Hebrews 5:4
And no man taketh this honour unto himself, but he that is called of God, as was Aaron.

Every Christian is already called. There's no special calling for any man in the body of Christ. Romans 8:28, 30; Jude 1:1; 1 Peter 5:10; 1 Cor. 1:24 and many more proves every Christian is called but we are "sent" on different assignment.

tpia5: here we go again.

What's the problem here? You can't hold your leaders accountable or what? You have any problem with the OP?

Image123: Adeboye is older than me oh, so let's not use my 'oldness' as a base. Those verses don't teach about curses. Kindly show please.

Image123, I have given you those verse and repeatedly told you to go study the key words in those verses but you keep turning hardened heart and keep repeating same questions.

As for Adeboye being older. I respect that and respect him as though I would my father but truth is not respect of a person. We don't use traditions of men ( e.g Yoruba traditions) to handle the word of God. Because Adeboye is older doesn't mean he cannot be talked against. We've not insulted him here but only pointed out his error to his followers.

nora544: because a christian cannot be cursed.

that comes only from Adeboye to put fear on his followers, that is all what he want, and he is good in this.

I could remember one year he told all his followers they should pray because something very bad will come to nigeria when they will not pray and fast, but he never told later what it would be, that is what I hate.

He want that his followers live always in fear and that is not christian. That has nothing to do with the bible!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm Goshen360 and I endorse the truth you've spoken.

There's no fear in faith & love and perfect love of\from our Father cast out fear. These men are just preaching dead messages from the pulpit.

Image123: You were shy to paste them verses?

Romans 5:16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification. 5:17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.) 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

They don't say a christian cannot be cursed, do they? You're trying to draw logical conclusions, okay. But those verses say nothing about a christian being cursed.

Study to show yourself approved unto God, one who is skilled in the word, rightly dividing the word. That verse teaches exactly opposite to what those who promote generational curses for Christian teach. Again, do yourself a favour, look up key words in those verse and stop assume I'm drawing logical conclusions. You're too old in the word not to know these little things.

DrummaBoy: One of the biggest tragedies of our times is for folks to think up a theory and then go to the bible and make it prove that theory rather than allow the bible to speak for itself.

I reckon!!!

saintlawr: @Goshen360
Pst. E A Adeboye can be wrong and Every other preacher or teacher on Earth. It's Grace that's keeping us all.

I appreciate the fact you said, your Daddy G.O can be wrong just like every other preacher but your other colleagues don't see it that way. How then do we prove wrong teachings from right? Sound doctrine & rightly dividing the word of truth.

saintlawr: Talking about Holiness, Holiness is our nature but the bible said, we should be Holy in all manner of conversation as our Father is Holy..
1 Peter 1:15
But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;
Still talking about Holiness, remember when paul talks about attribute for a bishop, holiness was included
Titus 1:8
But a lover of hospitality, a lover of good men, sober, just, holy, temperate;
U see there is lot about being Holy and living Holy u don't understand

If holiness is our nature. How are you trying to become what you already are? Does that make any meaning? Holiness is the fruit of our salvation not the root of our salvation. In Christ as a new creation, you're holy. Be ye holy should not be understood as a sinless state or one who cannot make mistakes but should be understood as...live out what you already are by your new nature.

When Peter said, YOU ARE a holy nation. Friends, you are already holy. Can can one who is already holy strive to become what he already is? It should be understood as live what you already are.

saintlawr: @Goshen360

Talking about tithing and first fruit , Almost all Churches in Nigeria believe in it ( Christ Embassy, Living Faith, Mfm, Deeper Life, Dominion city, Salvation ministries ,Christ Gospel Ambassador etc ) Until some pastors from Asia started teaching otherwise... So don't take it personal on our G.O . For your information I believe in Tithing too.

Just as almost all the churches can be wrong. Again, I'm not taking nothing personal but challenging everyone of you to cross check what your leaders teach from the pulpit if they are right. Don't assume because he's anointed, he will always be right. You might believe in tithing but there's a wrong believing and right believing will produce right living according to the word.

saintlawr: You made a statement about us going from pillar to pillar look for deliverance .. for your information we don't look for deliverance but we DO/ MINISTER DELIVERANCE.
Like I said earlier sir, Understanding differs. STOP THE CRITICISM. RESPECT THE ANOINTING...
GOD BLESS!

I'm not trying to prove know-it-all but we reason together in the word. If the word says, you're already delivered and sealed with the Spirit; what deliverance session are you people still conducting on Christians. Apparently, you need to re-new your mind to align with the word. Also, deliverance doesn't mean casting out devils and demons from Christians, binding and loosing stuffs that we see in most churches in Nigeria but it means, accepting and consenting to the finished works of Christ.

2. I respect the anointing but not in the way you assume - the anointing means different in the new testament. You are also anointed just as Daddy G.O is anointed. The anointing is the Holy Spirit (not the pouring of oil ceremonial as it was in the old) which you have received and sealed with. These pouring oil for anointing as with the old that many churches still practice shadows and left the reality\substance which is found in Christ.

New Living Translation
But you have received the Holy Spirit, and he lives within you, so you don't need anyone to teach you what is true. For the Spirit teaches you everything you need to know, and what he teaches is true--it is not a lie. So just as he has taught you, remain in fellowship with Christ.

KJV calls it "the anointing" but check the Greek rendering and reason with the Holy Spirit.

King James Bible
But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

If the anointing means oil poured on your head in the new testament, how can oil poured on your head "abides or lives IN you"? Think about that.

Image123: Is there a Bible verse that says a christian cannot be cursed?

Again, YES!!!

Romans 5:16 - 18

Romans 8:1

Before you come back to continue your argument, endeavour to look up key words in those verses.

When falsehood persisted for ages and the truth suddenly show up, people who had being wrongly taught will attack the truth and call it falsehood. Many Christian had being wrongly taught and instead of them to flush out the old wine and allow the new to flow into them by emptying themselves, we try to defend what is not sound doctrine. The Master had spoken, listen to the words of the Master:

New American Standard Bible
"A little while, and you will no longer see Me; and again a little while, and you will see Me."

To understand the words of the Master, you will need to fit everything the Master stands for and is known for into "...you will no longer see ME" and also, again..."you will see me".

For instance, the Master is the Life. At a time, in the church, you will not see Life except but dead messages from the pulpit and that is what you see in most churches today. But again, ....you will see me....The Master is working through a remnant to restore Life to the church. The Master is the Truth and The Way, at at time you will NOT see truth in the church but lies and falsehood and when truth is missing, na make people dey miss road remain because he's also The Way. But we have hope that again, we will see Truth and Christ's way coming back into the body of Christ. Every doctrine is going to be re-checked and double checked.

christemmbassey: how can we help this guy!!! Bro Goshen?

I don't know to help a man his heart is already sealed by man-made traditional teachings other than open and explain scriptures to him. It is the Spirit that quickens.

Sure you're doing well brother!!!

saintlawr: People criticize what they don't understand.. RCCG is not like another Church .. Holiness is our lifestyle and we believe it's possible by the grace of God. And please let's be mature we Christians can't win the world for Jesus fighting our understanding .Anointing and the word knowledge is of different degrees .. as for RCCG, OUR VISION IS TO MAKE HEAVEN AND TAKE AS MANY AS POSSIBLE WITH US that's our message ... IF you truely know PST.E A ADEBOYE you will love him. sorry if my Daddy G.O offended u. We are sorry!.. that's the way we understand the Scripture. God bless u.

I'm sorry sir. We're not trying to win argument here. Far from it. What I intend to do is challenge you followers of RCCG to examine or RE-examine what you've being taught and find out like the Bereans if they are true to the Apostolic teachings. Whether I'm right or wrong, go into the word yourself and do a serious study, don't just take the words of a man for what he said. Pastor Adeboye can err...not rightly dividing the word of truth. Rightly diving the words of truth means putting the old where it belongs and placing the new where it belongs in the dispensations of God. The Bereans questioned and challenged what Paul, the Apostle taught. Who then is Pastor Adeboye that his teachings cannot be checked?

And lemme tell you this, where Adeboye is going wrong is doctrine of mixing the old and new testament\covenant together to confuse his followers. Scripture clearly says, the new is different from the old.

- Hebrews 8:9 (in many translations) http://biblehub.com/hebrews/8-9.htm

It will not be the same as the covenant I made with their fathers...

Any true Christian doctrine hold its root in the new testament, from Christ to the Apostolic doctrines. Anything outside that is taking "some parts of the old" that only favours them and use it to establish Christian doctrine. That's a mixed bag of confusion!!!

Image123: Is there a Bible verse that says a Christian cannot be cursed?

There're lots of verses in the new covenant, where we, Christians belong that says a Christian cannot be cursed. This teaching of generational curse is completely false and foreign to the New Testament. Never was it taught by any of the Apostles. Those who teach generational curses are actually insulting the finished works of Christ and His blood. It doesn't matter if such a famous man of God.

Try\continue to break a curse (that is not there) and you lose your blessing that is there by grace. It’s your choice, go under a law that is not to be obeyed, or stay in grace where all our spiritual blessings are found in Christ.

If Jesus broke the curse and became curse for us, how can we who believe in Him have a curse? Can you be full and still be hungry at the same time? Can you carry blessings in Christ and still be cursed? Did Jesus remove our sins by the cross or only some of them? Did Jesus remove the curse against man for not fulfilling the law by the cross or only part of it? This is what needs to be answered. Does His blood not cleanse all things as it says in the Bible? “The blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin” (I John 1:7).

For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

The word for salvation here is the word sōtēria and it means:

deliverance, preservation, safety, salvation

deliverance from the molestation of enemies

in an ethical sense, that which concludes to the soul's safety or salvation

of Messianic salvation

salvation as the present possession of all true Christians

future salvation, the sum of benefits and blessings which the Christians, redeemed from all earthly ills, will enjoy after the visible return of Christ from heaven in the consummated and eternal kingdom of God.

This salvation is what Paul, the Apostle of Christ called "complete in Christ" because we're in Christ.....if any man be in Christ...

Salvation also mean deliverance completed by the saving blood of Christ. Those who have accepted His message are translated from the power of darkness into the Kingdom of God’s beloved Son. That is what the Bible says, and no mans teaching should be given priority over this. “If anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. Old things are passed away and behold ALL things have become new!” It all points to Jesus Christ crucified-- Jesus Christ and Him crucified gives us victory.

Finally, those who teach generational curses are teaching a strange doctrine of double punishment. How do I mean? Look at this,

New American Standard Bible
Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us-- for it is written, "CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO HANGS ON A TREE "--

King James Bible
Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

There're two things to pay attention to here in that verse.

- 1. Christ redeemed us from curses of the law
- 2. He became a curse or the cursed one

How can I still be cursed or a Christian be cursed when a divine exchanged had already taken place in place of the curse that Christ became? Why then was he cursed or became a cursed one or why did he redeemed us from the curses of the law then?

Listen to scripture, the very next verse:

New International Version
He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.

New American Standard Bible
in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we would receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

King James Bible
That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

[quote author=Dux-01]someone borrowed a million naira to you today.the next day you went to church and surrendered your life to christ.would you tell the person when he comes for his money old things are passed away so your one million is passed way?your grandfather goes to the devil and asks for wealth he gets it and the demon idol says he should pay with the wealth of his children and grandchildren.he agrees and dedicates you even before you were born and raises a satanic altar of dedication against you.now you become A christian will you now say old things are passed away all things are become new without paying the debt of your forefather and shutting up the evil dedication powers speaking against you by raising up a new altar to God and dismantling the satanic altars through prayer.there are some things you need to know goshen you know how to quote scriptures fine.But i don't think you know that God operates by principles.Look at the dedication power upon the live of samuel and Jacob.if you engage in casting out demons you will understand that even when a person has given his life to christ the dedication factor still stands strong upon a person life even an evil one unless it is broken and changed.that is why it is not wise to study the bible like a scholar.ask the Holy spirit questions.i pray you iunderstand.[/quote]I think or guess the problem here is, you might not understand what it means to be in Christ as a new creature and that's why you people still run from pillar to pole looking for deliverance while Christ already set you free and you're complete IN Christ. Please, answer the above question and we can continue from there, what does it mean to be in Christ and be a new creation?

[quote author=Dux-01]the problem is not in me quoting scripture malachi 3 vs 10 is all you need to know.the problem is that you do not believe it applies to modern day christains or perhaps you have misunderstood it.you need to pray seriously to get the truth behind this.who told you that old testament doctrines are not needed now.This is error .lastly,i will advise you to be careful about how you talk about pst e a adeboye.[/quote]Tell me why I should believe it was written to me when the audience was clearly stated and moreso, when I'm under s different agreement\covenant which is better?

2. You don't make doctrines for the church of Christ out of the old agreement that is now null and void. They continued in the Apostolic doctrine which are the foundations of Christ's teachings.

3. Why can't I say something about Pastor Adeboye if he's defrauding the poor in the name of God?

[quote author=Dux-01]2 corinthians 5 17 does not apply in this area.also in the area of dedication.if you understand the principle of dedication you will understand that a person can still be tormented by demons he ws dedicated to even when he is now a christian if his parents do not tell him.these are practical things i am telling you.[/quote]Good morning,

1. This is the problem here - tell us what you understand by 2 cor. 5:17 please.

2. When someone is dedicated to demons before coming to Christ, what part of him is dedicated to such demons? Body, soul or spirit or his total being.

3. When such come to be in Christ, what part of him is in Christ and became a new creation?

Maybe answers to the above will help us.

BabaGnoni: [size=16pt]MY SUBMISSION ON F3: WEALTH/PROSPERITY[/size]
INTRODUCTION
We will put the famous and favorite verse (i.e. 3 John:2) WoF likes to use under the microscope,
we will zero the microscope's lens on to "...may prosper..."
we will zoom in on it to find out whether or not "...may prosper..." has anything at all to do with wealth
(i.e. we will cross check with the original Greek render)
We should be able to find out if 3 John:2, is interpreted out of context or not
Is 3 John:2, a private prayer or wish of riches for the person mentioned in the verse
or is it a public and authoritative promise of wealth or riches for all Christians
It is hoped that after all the F3: WEALTH/PROSPERITY submissions, we all (i.e. posters and readers) would have learned a thing or two, would have become wiser and be:
- able to see why this perverse "WEALTH/PROSPERITY" doctrine is taught the way it is by the perpetrators.
- able to see who mainly & primarily benefits from this perverse "WEALTH/PROSPERITY" doctrine when taught the way it is
- able to see what happens (e.g. disappointments) and it often does happen, when this perverse "WEALTH/PROSPERITY" doctrine is taught the way it is
- able to see how dangerous or damaging (e.g. the dark hidden or unsuspecting dangers) this perverse "WEALTH/PROSPERITY" doctrine can be when taught the way it is
- able to see the hidden agenda (i.e. the ulterior motives) behind this perverse "WEALTH/PROSPERITY" doctrine, as it is taught the way it is
- able to see the ridiculous (e.g. Leroy Thompson's "Money Cometh to Me Now" tasteless pulpit display) that this perverse "WEALTH/PROSPERITY" doctrine breeds especially when taught the way it is
- able to see who are the winners and losers of the "WEALTH/PROSPERITY" doctrine
- above all, able to see, what REALLY is God's will for us concerning "...above all..."
(i.e. with verses like Jeremiah 29:11, 1 Peter 4:8, Colossians 3:14, Matthew 7:12-14 and 1 John 3:10)

Ogbeni, o ti finish awon ara'biyi o pelu breakdown\outline yi o. You nefa start exposition on that verse self, people (like me and many readers) don understand....by the Spirit.

[quote author=Dux-01]a lot of christians are suffering from generational curses,satanic altars are speaking against them,they are christians but they have to apply and declare the word of God by faith to their situation before it can work for them.it is not automatic.if it is why so many christians are in bondage God gave us all we need to be victorious but we have our own work to do.[/quote]They're in bondage because they return to the law and as such, the curses of the law affect them. Even in the old testament, it was said by God that if a child is cursed by the acts of his parent and such child turn to God, God said he will be merciful and remove the curse. Have you turned to God through Christ? Old things passed and you're a new creature (by nature). You people are wrongly taught and you argue blindly for Adeboye to death. Again, if you're not ready to talk scripture, I'm done talking to you.

[quote author=Dux-01]goshen he said in the april holy ghost service that God told him that one of the children there would rule nigeria one day and that another would be an olympic star.is that not specific enough for you?tell me how i am contradicting myself.i think you are just quoting scriptures for me without understanding them yourself.the bible says in hosea 4:6 my people perish for lack of knowledge.if only you could just pray for revelation of this truth you would understand the fact that you are a christian does NOT automatically give u[/quote]You're talking too much than you support your words with scriptures. I'm done talking with you....if you're not gonna talk scriptures. Y'all can go on with generational curse or whatever.

[quote author=Dux-01]and again i tell you go and pray very well about this tithing issue because if you don't pay your tithe you are robbing God.i know that you would still say that was what i was taught you really need to pray hard because if you cannot see this truth the spirit of error will influence you.[/quote]Again, Apostolic doctrine is the complete revelation of Christ. Just show one scripture where the early church were tithing. And who is robbing God if not Pastor Adeboye, robbing God by robbing the poor. Study Hebrews 7, you will come to the truth, tithe was abolished.