Psalm 1: 1-3

1 Blessed is the man
Who walks not in the counsel of the ungodly,
Nor stands in the path of sinners,
Nor sits in the seat of the scornful;
2 But his delight is in the law of the LORD,
And in His law he meditates day and night.
3 He shall be like a tree
Planted by the rivers of water,
That brings forth its fruit in its season,
Whose leaf also shall not wither;
And whatever he does shall prosper.

Well, It has been said that every nation deserves its leadership.

So if some of us can still suggest that the best president for Nigeria, out of 120 million citizens, can be found amongst a bunch of ex-rulers, who have been given a chance, and have indeed been found wanting, then we deserve whatever we get in 2007.

OK, I played the lottery just once and the ticket was bought with loose change on the spur of the moment, without any prior defined intention, strategy, hard work, or smart thinking.

Suddenly, I have in my possesion sizeable amount of money, which I then place a fixed deposits, to pay out a good dividends each year for the rest of my natural life.

Would you say that all the concepts we tend to bandy about have had any part to play?

@G-reycells asked;
what is your definition of failure? People that WORK HARD and SMART do not see failure.

My definition of failure is this: An act or instance of failing or proving unsuccessful.
When one does not achieve what he has set out to achieve within his set target of time and scope.

Now the motivational books will tell all about how smart people dont see failure.

I have no issues with working smart or working Hard. Bu I've come to learn that there are no absolutes. I stated that many people pass away before they achieve this elusive success. Regardless of how smart they worked. Now would you say that they will continue the success in their afterlife, or would you say that you never met anyone who was smart and hardworking at yet died b4 they achieved their stated desires?

Also, the truth is that many of us will spend life on this earth doing what we consider smart and never achieving our stated aims.

Do you really think that the likes of Branson, Gates et al were considered remotely smart when they were dropping out of school? We simply have the benefit of hind sight, and now proclaim their names and strategies as though they knew exactly what they were doing at the time.

G-reycells:

@ Groupoint

It is rare indeed to see persons dt work hard and smart ending up unsuccessful. Let us not confuse WORKING HARD with WORKING HARD and SMART. They are two different things. Most people either WORK HARD without WORKING SMART or Some bloke is WORKING SMART but not WORKING HARD.

I dont agree with you that it is rare to see people who work smart and hard and yet fail. They abound the streets of Lagos and many cities of the world. The examples you gave above mostly detailed people who failed and failed and failed, and then suceeded. What about the people who failed and failed and failed, till death or depression came knocking?

Without sounding anti-capitalist, The mere notion of working smart tells me that someone has to lose out as a result of your smartness. In the end, we will all be outsmarted by the next person.

Besides, lets say that if 1000 harvard graduates applied the same 'work hard', 'work smart' strategies to the same job application, would 999 not fail to clinch the job?

G-reycells:

Luck did not take Tony Elumelu, Aliko Dangote and Erastus Akingbola & Co, to the top. Please note that the SMARTER HARDER YOU WORK, THE LUCKIER YOU WILL GET. Ask Seun, he is an entrepreneur.

Consider Albert Einstein, who was four years old before he could speak. He worked hard to be the best in his time.

The same for Sam Walton of world famous Wal-Mart, he was not lucky with his first store, it failed.

The great and late Henry Ford suffered an early bankruptcy, but worked hard and smart to bounce back to become one of the richest men in history.

So how do we explain this statement of fact:

For every one Einstein or Dangote mentioned above, there are over 1 million other harder and smarter workers that will never achieve any level of success?

Well done, you finally listened to the voice of reason. I say, Better late than never!!!!

May I ask, why the name 'Mamaput', Personally, it sounds more like a food business.

Can you pls enlighten us?

goodguy:

Why don't we just see and concentrate on the message the story is trying to pass across, rather than analyse the story's set-up?

The problem is that the message is likely to be counter-productive if proven to be false. Jesus did even greater things and there are many authentic messages everyday.

Any unbeliever with just a little knowledge of history, will immediately refute the story and effectively, its intended message.

goodguy:

Even if that freewill will cause harm to her?

Has God not given the earth to man to tend, have dominion and multiply?
Most of the destruction on the earth has been caused by man excercising his freewill, and it seems there is worse to come,
Yes even if the excercise of freewill will cause harm to man, God has left a blueprint for man to follow,in order to avoid this potential harm.

However, it is within man's free will to utilise this blueprint.

Good idea. A lofty, but possible initiative.
One which will need:

- A business plan
- Human resources dedicated to executing the task
- A code for regulations to cover irregular payments.
- A method of allocating shares, since some people may be interested in paying much more than N1000 per month.

The groundwork required is extensive. Then again the potential benefits are immense.

@TV01,
Paul referred to Timothy as his son in the lord.
John did the same.
The Church of Jerusalem regarded James as their Man of God.
Tell me, how did Paul regard his work in these churches as a one time task, and yet, you read 1st letter to the Corinthians, 2nd letter, 2 thesalonians, 2 timothy, You have 1 John, 2 John, 3 john.
I tell you that whosoever was being frequently ministered to at the time, must of a necessity, regard these apostles as their man of God.

Furthermore, you, TV01 may be my 'man of God' (A man sent to me from God), If we find that many of my spiritual questions are easily made clearer to me, when you the explanation is coming from you.

I dont believe that God expects everyone to leave their daily vocation and dedicate the same level of time and resources to the word as is expected of pastors and preachers. Again, I ask' what is the purpose of the five fold ministry idf their is no more relevance of men of God?

@TV01

Throughout the bible, you will see, especially in the new testament that God uses man to bless man.

Those who are led by the Spirit of God, these are the sons of God. But tell me, What then is the purpose of the five fold ministry?

What was apostle Paul doing with Timothy? What was he doing with all the churches in Corinth, Galatia, Ephesus, and Colosus?
I tell you that he was their man of God.

Even after you have recieved the holy spirit, there is still the need for spirit filled counsellors. Because the Spirit of God can minister through some by prophecy, healing, revelation, teaching, and evangelism.

I agree totally with Lafille.

Furthermore May I add that the earlier postings by TayoD and Akintos, where they were trading insults on one another was very un-christianlike.

I should like to think that your 'Men of God' would have dissapproved.

Finally, I would like to add that your man of God, whoever God has placed in your life to lead you, guide you to a deeper level of understanding, is still a man. And as such, subject to same temptations as we are.
If the purpose of this thread is to lift them up for public scrutiny, thereby, inviting praise, or scorn, upon them, then we may be giving them glory, which belongs to God alone, or meting Judgment which is reserved for God alone.

Hence, you are declaring that your main business strategy is to infringe on another company's hard earned intellectual property.
You are also stating that, even though 100% of feedback you recieved from the well meaning contributors to this thread had advised you otherwise, you are without giving a single logical reason, forging right ahead.

Finally, you sound dissappointed that ebay will not come after with 'guns blazing'.
I honestly cannot find words to say anything further concerning your business mind, except to wish you all the best in your endeavour.

@Havila
Hence you are suggesting that devil created sin.
I suggest to you that the devil has no creative powers.

@Tayo,
some versions of the bible say in titus 1:3 , 'God, who does not lie' as opposed to 'God, who cannot lie'
This tells me that God who is able to do all things, shall be less than omnipotent, if there is even any one thing, which He cannot do.

Furthermore a scripture tells us thus;
2 Chronicles 18:22 "So now the LORD has put a lying spirit in the mouths of these prophets of yours. The LORD has decreed disaster for you."

My view is this, God can do all things. He sets laws in the universe, which He wont break (not that He cant break these laws).

The bible says that God can do everything.

You have now said that God cannot sin. So I ask you: Is Sin not a thing?

Furthermore, (John 1:3)Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

Doesnt this suggest that God made sin?

I say to you that God can do all things. Perhaps He may choose not to sin or lie, but if he can do all things, as the bible tells us, then You will be removing from His Omnipotence, if you say he couldnt lie or sin.

@Goodguy
Yes If she is going to make the wrong choice, God already knows.

However, God will not stop her from using her freewill. He may place things and people in her life to show her the way. But ultimately, the decision is still hers.

Let us not forget that God has already portrayed the ultimate goodness, by dying on the cross. Hence, each time she is making the wrong choice, she is the one refusing to accept that goodness of God,
By accepting Jesus as our salvation, we are accepting to make the right choice at all times, no matter how hard it is, afterall that's what Christ did in the wilderness, at the garden, on the cross,

@Ugonna

Thanks for your compliments. It is God who grants all wisdom. (James 1:5)

Regarding your last post, I have stated that Christ did not have foreknowledge of certain events, simply because Christ Himself said so.(Would Jesus Lie?)

Regarding the case of Lazarus, even pastors and other people in tune with their inner spirit man, can tell you certain things that portray foreknowledge (prophets do have some foreknowledge, or dont they?)

Now concerning Judas Iscariot, even though it was predistinated that one man shall betray Christ, it was still out of freewill that Judas made the choice.
(Though Christ knew this all the time)

Ugonna, Now think about all the temptations that you undoubtedly come across each day. Imagine that you succumb to each one of them, and each time claiming that like Judas, 'a force compelled me', But I believe that you have, on many occasions applied your freewill and made the right decisions.

However, all this time God knew that you, Ugonna, was always going to make Him proud.

This is an example of how freewill and Omniscience can exist together.

@goodguy

Omniscience means knowing all things. Not many things.

Hence if Jesus knew the things which you described above, but goes further to confirm that He did not know the hour or day of His return, then Jesus Himself has confirmed that He was not Omniscient.

Jesus was on earth as a man, but not as an ordinary man. The things you described above can be known by spirit filled individuals (yourself for example) This does not quiet make us omniscient.

@K2

I have said that the Father and Son are not equal, only because Jesus himself implied same on several occasions:
John 14:28
"You heard me say, 'I am going away and I am coming back to you.' If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I.
Also;
‘I only do what I see my father do’.
Can you imagine God saying ' I only do what I see Christ do'!!

Furthermore, Jesus is the only begotten son of God. So tell me, could Jesus exist before God?

Notice also, that (Philippians 2:6) Jesus is called Mighty God, not Almighty God.

And again 1 Cor. 11:3, RS: “I want you to understand that the head of every man is Christ, the head of a woman is her husband, and the head of Christ is God.”
This was writen by apostle Paul, long after Christ had returned to Heaven, why then is he still stating that the head of Christ id God, if Christ and God are equals?


If you say that Christ and the holy Sprirt are equal, then why does it go thus; God sent Christ and He came to do the will of God, and Christ promised to send the comforter.

These statements clearly imply that one sent the next and so on, which is why we say Christ is the second person , while the holy Spirit is the 3rd.

Now, let us assume that Christ ‘turned off’ his God attributes while here as a man. Since, the much that we know of Christ was the brief period here as a man, and furthermore, since the question posed by Ugonna was relating to Christ’s foreknowledge during the event in the garden of Gethsemane, then may I suggest that Christ was not omniscient whilst here on earth. In heaven, things may be very different.

Then again, since the saints in heaven are no longer dying or bound by time, then perhaps we all may be omniscient in the afterlife!!!!!

Why dont you call them up and verify. Each Paper house accounts for their daily circulation. Their numbers can usually be found at the back of each paper.

Alternatively, you may email them, though I cant tell if you'd get a quick response.

@Macalurs

At the risk of appearing overly modest, may I refer you to Mark 10:8 or Luke 18:19

Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good—except God alone.

I believe that any Church, which has nothing shady in its affairs, should not worry about EFCC.
Afterall, If they are dealt with unjustly, The Lord will defend them, oand even exact vengeance on her behalf.

But, is it the same EFCC that has turned a blind eye to the affairs of Chris Uba in Anambra, or Tony Anenih, etc, that we are citing as the ultimate deliverer of justice?

@Macalurs

I chose not to respond to your earlier comments. The first being when you suggested that God was a sadist.
The second was the sad face icon.
Now you have suggested, right after my posting, that your sadness was due to the "I'm right, shut up, mentality".

Pls, if this is directed at me, can you pls explain, giving particular reference to anything I may have written, that would cast me in this light.?

@Ugonna

The theory of cognitive dissonance states that contradicting cognitions serve as a driving force that compels the mind to acquire or invent new thoughts or beliefs, or to modify existing beliefs, so as to reduce the amount of conflict between cognitions.

Case in point; The concept of the Trinity was not expressly stated in scripture. It came about when man, having decided that there was only one person in God (the Father), at the same time, could not deny that Jesus is God, and like wise the Holy Spirit.

Sometimes these conflicts reveals another truth.

@Lafille,

Yes, You Are On Track.

@goodguy, the other part of your question.

Where God's omniscience and man's freewill converge,

Other components come into play.
Omnipotence, Mercy, etc
Omnipotence: Having unlimited or universal power.
God can do anything. However, this does not mean that He will do everything.

This is where you find scriptures like I will shew mercy unto whomsoever I will.
I believe that God has already set into play various laws, which will determine the effectual result of our actions.
e.g. seedtime and harvest.

Hence if you say that Gods Omniscience and Omnipotence have biased Mankind's use of his freewill, then you are not incorrect.
However, this is man's use of that freewill, and not man's possesion of it.

@KDK Asked:
You have been dancing around with words but have failed to expressly tell us where God's omniscience and man's freewill converge.

Ans: I understood this thread was aimed at addressing the following questions:
Is God Omniscient, Furthermore, Does Mankind have freewill?

Yes, God is all-knowing.
Yes, Mankind is free to choose whatever he will.

Even if you change your mind 12 times along the way, God still knows your eventuall choice. (I did not say that God still determines your choice for you).

I really dont see any confusion here.

Ugonna. I hope this clarifies my position on the matter.

@Goodguy asked:
When we begin to operate in God's way, then we no longer have any freewill.  We're now doing the will of the father, no longer our own will!

Ans:
True. When you begin to operate in God's way, you align your will with your Creator's will. However, That is still a choice for Mankind to make. You are free to make any choice, knowing the consequences.

I suppose a more appropriate question would be thus; Will Man's use of his freewill lead him to salvation?

Ugonna asked: Why did God give us freewill?

Ans:
God made us in His image. An inherent feature of this image is for us to have freewill.


What do I mean by we surrendering our free will to God in order to be saved?

Ans:
As the creator, He wants us to operate in His way. (just as any inventor would expect of his product)
The 1st man did not, and as a result, became disconnected from the spirit of God.
Surrendering your will means operating in Gods way. The reward of this is salvation.
Salvation means reconnecting to the spirit of God.

Ugonna asked: So if God is to do whatever he will with us, where do our free-will stand ?

Ans:
Therein lies the purpose of salvation. That if you surrender your freewill to God, through christ, then you are saved.

@ugonna0071 you asked. If God is OMNISCIENT, automatically, Jesus too will be Omniscient, Right?

That is not necessarily true. Christ himself said thus;
"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father." (Matthew 24:36)

This statement tells you that the Son is not all-knowing.

I sincerely hope this does not 'confuse' you. Please understand that the 3 persons in one God does not confer equality amongst the 3 . Just as God was never a man, so also was Christ never the Father.

Further you asked: Why did Christ make the plea, knowing the end result?

Again, Christ came to do the will of God and to finish it. However, He came in form of flesh, and as such was subject to the same temptations and weakness as we are. If you had concluded the verse which you quoted, you would agree that Christ laid the perfect example (Not my will, but thy will be done).