₦airaland Forum

Chrisbenogor:
@Helpee

I think you need help, your thoughts are not coherent. How do you even survive?

I want to ignore you but when I see more of you posts I am just quite sure  that you cannot hold a coherent discussion with anybody. look at the issue of innocence we were talking about, you turned and twisted around the truth. You do not believe that a baby can be innocent dude you seriously need help!

let the sleeping dog lie then

This is  trend in some pentecostal churches nowadays especially MFM. people come to give testimony of how their mother died after sessions of deliverance prayers. tell me, if your pastor tells you that your mother is a witch, are you going to start raining fire prayers on the woman or what are you going to do?

one thing i also know is this, people dont run into problem because they made mistakes but because they dont have enough help both physical and spiritual. so tell me, did i make a right decision by not heeding those herbalist?

if people hate devil so much like this that nobody is willing to identify with him even on a forum where nobody can see your face, who is doing those killings, committing those crimes, consulting the now flourishing babalawo business. tell me, who?

Cristalz:
LOL  

You're not serious That's MFM.  .  .besides i don't think they fully realize the implication of their killer prayers.

Anyway,Christianity teaches forgiveness and reconciliation. Jesus came for the very same people your herbalists are killing/ trying to kill. So i don't see why one should consider them as alternatives when they give you options that cannot in any way be from God.

Aww.  .  .your story's really touching

When i hear stories like these i actually don't know what to say because i can't give you a reason why things happened the way they did. I mean,''why do bad things happen to good people'' is a question that will forever keep being asked.
But like i said,God still sees the big picture.  .  .and if after everything you still remain strong in faith and do not stray,i believe he won't let you go unrewarded.

Another angle tho is,there are some things that you should take care of yourself.Things that God won't come down to do for you. Like your hospital now.  .  .what kind of problems did you run into? Financial? Ethical? You know problems don't just land.  .  .its a gradual thing.

Are you sure you ran the place wholly with God's guidance? You didn't make some slip-ups? because sometimes humans mess up,do things our own way,and when everything comes crashing we blame God when we didn't even give him a chance to help.

This time you speak with a lot of wisdom.
i was not perfect. i was young but very smart and well trained in the art of medicine and knows the rudiment of the business. but the problem that came was beyond me and nope, i tried my best to manage the place.
what i dont know is this; could things have been different had i listened to those oracle priests and cele pastors?

:d :d :d :d :d :d :d :d :d :d :d :d :d :d :d :d :d :d

Cristalz:
And are you also aware there are things that could hinder God answering you? That's why initially i said as long as you've got a relationship with God and you're in-line with his word,you've got nothing to worry about. Delay is not denial.

As for pastors pointing out mothers as problem sources, isn't it true in some cases? And when that happens,the pastors don't pray for the mother to die. What they tell the person is, ''bring your mother here so i can pray for her,or let me come to your house to pray for her''.

C'mon,be honest here.

my sweet angel, i dont agree with you on this one. Have you been to MFM? they don't take nonsense. they will kill that mother before you even have the opportunity to challenge her

Nimshi:
Not sure if you've written what you meant. Your Abraham comment meant you're probably thinking of an alternative solution.

Look, there's no problem with consulting a herbalist, just make sure it's a qualified herbalist. One of the main criticism of herbal solutions is the issue of dosage; if that can be correctly managed, then you should be fine. The other popular alternative solution is using Western Medicine; these too have side effects. Take Abraham, for example, he was old before he got Ishmael and later Isaac; were herbs available, he could've used them; burantashi could have been useful, Viagra, may be, and perhaps some nutritional supplements. How could God have been pissed with that?? God made humans; God made the herbs; should man synthesise the herbs for improved health, why should God be displeased? Forget it; herbs are fine, and a good herbalist is a blessing.

Now, did you mean something other than a herbalist? In case there's any confusion about who a herbalist is, here's a definition from www.dictionary.com :

dictionary results for: herbalist
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source - Share This
herb·al·ist       /ˈhɜrbəlɪst, ˈɜr-/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[hur-buh-list, ur-] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1. a person who collects or deals in herbs, esp. medicinal herbs. 
2. herb doctor. 
3. an author of an herbal. 
4. (formerly) a botanist. 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Origin: 1585–95; herbal + -ist]

herb·al·ist       (ûr'bə-lĭst, hûr'-)  Pronunciation Key 
n.   
One who grows, collects, or specializes in the use of herbs, especially medicinal herbs.
See herb doctor.

YES I MEAN ALTERNATIVE SOLUTION.
BUT THE HERBALIST I AM TALKING ABOUT ARE NOT JUST BOTANIST, I MEAN ORACLE PRIEST, ALFAS, ASTROLOGERS, TRADITIONAL WORSHIPERS. WHY DO WE HAVE SO MANY IMPORTANT PERSONALITIES ON OKIJA SHRINE REGISTER IF OUR PASTORS ARE REALLY DOING THEIR WORK. SO IS IT A SIN IF YOU CONSULT THEM AS LONG AS YOU DON'T KILL OR HARM ANYBODY

Cristalz:
@helpee

What about herbalists that give solutions that involve killing one person to make another person happy? Or those that say,make him blind or make her mad,and your problems will be solved? You believe those are from God?

A true pastor would never give you a solution that involves harming another. And,i didn't say you should consult a pastor anyway.  .  .i'm telling you to go directly to God himself.  .  .he has his ways of giving you answers,either through people,the Bible,or the Holy Spirit. You don't have to go consult any human being for answers. Just ask God,and he'll send the human to you.

what about those that give solutions that don't involve killing.
do you know that some pastors tell people that their mother is the source of their problem and they will start praying that the poor woman should die

Cristalz:
Interesting story.

Then your question should be about consulting astrologers,not herbalists. Therez a big difference between both. And the way you go about asking your question shouldn't be in an attacking manner.

Have you considered the fact that this woman predicting your future doesn't actually mean she made it happen? The event was there.She saw it.This your story is not ''alternative means''. You didn't go to her to ask for a solution to a problem ; she just happened to make an accurate prediction. What if twaz a pastor that had told you same,would you have started this thread? Just a thot

And isn't it possible your win was God's way of answering your prayer? You were just told about the event by anastrologer,who might've even been a christian

There are way too many probabilities here for this to be your basis for being cynical. So i don't think you should start questioning faith now when you're not even in a relationship with God(you said you're still trying to find him). You haven't experienced the way God works and already you're in doubt. This attitude won't help you find him dearie,that is,if you're still interested in seeking.

God makes things happen. . . your friend simply saw what was gon' happen. Who's bigger? Have some faith.

you said exactly what i was expecting you to say.
the woman did exactly what a herbalist would do.
herbalist tend to consult their gods to see what is about to happen and most times they are more accurate than most of our so called pastors. they also consult their gods to know the remedy if something bad is on the way.
so, probably they too are not anti-God. they only predict what God is about to do

Cristalz:
@helpee

I asked you the first question because you said Christians acting holy here go to Romance to talk about boyfriends. And i don't see anything wrong in going to talk about boyfriends on Romance. . .not talking about boyfriends is the real hypocrisy. . .like telling your 13-year old daughter that babies are found under cocoyam leaves because you don't want to tarnish her 'spiritual upbringing'.

As for your no devil no hell question,its not a bad one. Before i answer tho,i'v got one of mine. . .in this no devil, no hell picture,is there still God?

of course God is always there.
but what i want to know is this, if God is not going to punish you for choosing the devil, who will you honestly choose. devil or God?

author=Cristalz link=topic=177268.msg2873235#msg2873235 date=1222783972]
@helpee

Whats wrong with talking about boyfriends in the Romance section?   Even pastors had girlfriends before the women became wives,whether they chose to call the woman in question 'special sister' or 'chosen one'.

the same way  nothing is wrong if you tell whether you will go for the devil if there is no hell



And who thinks you're an anti-Christ?

ask Gamine. she even think i am more

Gamine:
This dude is not seeking for answers.

Jesus didnt come to save our pockets, He came to save our souls.

@Helpee

So what does God represent and what does the Devil rep

And while jesus was busy neglecting our pocket, the devil stole the soul using that same pocket.
have you forgotten what jesus said? Where your treasure is, there your heart will be also

Cristalz:
Think Job.  .  .there was nothing super-human about him. Remember all you need is one as small as a mustard seed Alternative solutions always seem appealing,but the effects are not nearly as long-lasting as when you get God's help.

This is part of the reasons the Bible teaches faith.  .  .

Do you know that  at a stage, even  john the baptist was looking for an alternative solution.
when he was locked up in the prison and help was not forthcoming, he sent his disciples to ask Jesus whether he was truly the messiah or he should expect another? in other words, if Jesus was the messiah, he ought to have saved him but he didn't. so, nobody is immune to alternative solution when the chips are really, really down.

@Cristalz
Remember all you need is one as small as a mustard seed

but the truth about mustard seed is that it grows very fast. when Jesus was talking about mustard seed, he was talking about a faith that grows fast. so don't expect that you will always MOVE A MOUNTAIN SIZE PROBLEM WITH A MUSTARD SEED FAITH. otherwise jesus would not have marveled at the lack of faith that made it difficult to perform miracles among his people
with the early rain, the mustard seed germinate but with the latter rain it is already a big tree. that is fast men.

Cristalz:
Think Job.  .  .there was nothing super-human about him. Remember all you need is one as small as a mustard seed Alternative solutions always seem appealing,but the effects are not nearly as long-lasting as when you get God's help.

This is part of the reasons the Bible teaches faith.  .  .

i feel you my dear. you will make a good wife. at least, if i am discouraged, i can lean on you.
but, seriously speaking, job was a good example. only that he stopped having faith in Gods willingness to help him at a time. please, don't get me wrong. he knew God could do it but he was now wondering whether God was really ready to help him. the question is not wether God can do it but wether God is willing to do it?

Cristalz:
How exactly does the answer to this question help you? because you're going to get a whole variety of answers

is that what you think? varieties of answers?
i seriously doubt it. Nigerians are so fake that none of them will want people to think they are corrupt or evil.
Go to church and see fake display of holiness. many people that are claiming holiness here are more active in romance section where the issue of boyfriend is the hottest gist.
sometimes, i wonder if Nigeria will be better without churches because people will better be able to express themselves without fear of being demonized. do you know that the former NDDC chairman that used all our money to do juju was very active in the church. oyinbos are progressing because if dem be witch, dem go talk but nigerians, no way! they think helpee is another anti-christ on nairaland

Cristalz:
@poster

What happened to faith? Waiting on the Lord?

but sometimes, bad[b] fate can dictate your faith[/b]
its very easy to advise others to wait on the lord but when you are directly invoved, it can be very difficult and makes alternative solution very appealing.

Gamine:
@Whenever is a Bad thing Good??

You need Help my friend.

did you ever hear me say something is good or bad?
i am not asking you whether God is Good or Devil is bad.
i am saying if all chips are down, who will you choose.
you just keep mentioning help. don't you see it as a matter of urgency to help me by answering this question fast instead of hiding behind the cotton of morality which i don't really think you possess

Gamine:
Helpee.

i get the feeling that you really do need help

and you are as confused as an ant in a sea of spike

You don't know what God is, Who an herbalist is, what sin is and what prayer is.

yes and that is the reason why i am asking you the question.
since you have experience with all of them, you know who God is, you have dined with several herbalists, you are an unrepentant and perhaps, hopeless sinner despite all your hypocritical prayers, can you please enlighten and help me.

@topic
if you don't ask such a question,  we might all be tempted to  conclude that miracles are extinct. but no, they still abound.
MIRACLES; to unbelievers, no explanation is possible so it doesn't exist.
                   to scientist, no explanation is rational so it can't exist
                   to believers, no explanation is neccessary because we can't explain God
                    you can refrain your question, do God still exists?

ayinba1:
@question
What do you think?

that is why i need your help here. i don't think anything.
i am just wondering whether God can just allow us to consult others when things are not really working.
unless we want to deny the obvious, thousands of people out there are trying to cut corners with Godand they seem to be getting away with it. so why can't we do the same thing?

iukpe:
I lifted the post below from a nairalander's reply, I am just wondering why churches tolerate fake practices for any reason.
Can one just start speaking in tongues at will during a conversation or prayer.

post by webguru Re: Falling Under Anointing - Hoax, Real Or Hypnosis?


speaking is tongues is vital for building your faith and helps u to pray on things you cld never think of praying on

i also used the excuse that it wasn't compulsory when i didn't speak in tongues.

Get the gift of speaking in tongues. Everyone can get it and must!

so what is your point here? you said we can all get it but you are not telling us how we can identify fakes. so what if i insist on getting it and i end up getting fakes. how am i supposed to know whether this is fake or not

Pastor AIO:
Do you mean by herbalist a juju man? They are quite different. A herbalist makes medicines with herbs. In fact most medicines are made from herbs or certain active ingredients found in herbs. Me, I use herbs well well. I don't think it contradicts my religious faith. However employing the help of evil spirits to effect anything is a different matter altogether.

most herbs will eventually require the use incantations. don't you think that is evil

IDINRETE:
wao! I love nairaland, 

you guys are awesome 

[quote author=pilgrim.1 link=topic=177428.msg2872387#msg2872387 date=1222772285]My point is made: Abraham does not belong to your herbalist alternative support programme (HASP). QED.[/quote]Time to move on. its obvious you  don't know what to say again so you can pick petty issues while ignoring the main show.
just remember next  that before you bump into a post and start insisting on BILL GATES as you did yesterday that you are up to the task. i warned you yesterday even agreed with your weak position so that we could moved on but you insisted and now you showing signs of frustration.

[quote author=pilgrim.1 link=topic=177428.msg2872388#msg2872388 date=1222772323]I noticed. Cheers. [/quote]alliance of the defeated

[quote author=pilgrim.1 link=topic=272.msg2872376#msg2872376 date=1222772129]@helpee,

Please grow up - I wasn't trying to correct his quote of Heb. 7:18 by quoting ch. 7:8 - they are two different things.

(1) Heb. 7:18 - "For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before. ." etc.

(2) Heb. 7:8 - "And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, . ." etc.

Just because you can't make out the difference does not mean you have to force yourself to comment on all my posts. That is just plain childish.[/quote]i can see your frustration building. on the contrary you bundled your ass into my posts
there is nothing fantastic about your post that i will be pursuing
if you care to know, your arguments are usually pretty obvious and when you started with me you thought it was one of those shallow minded you have been showing off to as if you are the only the born again with knowlegde.
ive only tackled you for less than 24hrs and you are getting angry. if you cant survive the heat, too bad. as for me, i am fun.

df2006:
my friend your thoughts are still shallow, go expand your mind, do more thinking and you won,t be posting this kind of thread.

i understand that you don't have anything reasonable to contribute.
i guess constructive thinking is too hard for you.
its a high time seun introduced kiddies section for immature contributors like you

df2006:
if there is no heaven or hell there won,t be a devil, so quit asking stupid questions, for those who don,t believe in a God sorry to disappoint you the only reason why you are a being is because a higher power created you,and caused every other things to be  and that i think is God.

before you jump into a forum to start displaying your ignorance, read the previous post first. most Christians are not reading the bible very well and you are one of them.
devil did not exist because of hell. in fact hell exist because of the devil. so, there was a devil before there was a hell. may be you don't even know that for now, nobody is in the HELL where devil and his cohorts will suffer everlasting doom. Go and read your revelation very well. when God created Heaven, devil was already around and that is why they called him MORNING STAR . so my friend, there could have being a God without heaven and there is a Devil that is even yet to get to hell. you think if the devil is presently suffering somewhere, he will have time to be causing havoc? no! he is not yet suffering in hell, that will be post rapture

[quote author=pilgrim.1 link=topic=177428.msg2872022#msg2872022 date=1222763574]If your point is that Abraham derailed by sleeping with a slave girl (no insults to the Egyptians), I can well bear with you. What you should understand is that God made him a promise and He fulfilled His promise.[/quote]of course he fulfilled it but at what cost?
At the cost of the world peace! if that promise had come earlier, he wouldnt have slept with the slave and there will be no muslims, no osama bin laden or religious differences. dont you think the promise came too late. a lot of harm had been done