₦airaland Forum

italo: I thought my post was sufficient in showing that when Jesus said "water and the spirit", he meant baptism. Because immediately after the teaching, he goes on to practicalize what he had just taught by having his disciples baptize people.

The "Water" in that verse meant "Burial" that is we(Christains) are buried we Christ.
Someone had to die before his/her burial ceremony is done.
The Water Baptism is our burial ceremony,announcing to the world that we are dead to it,and now live by the leadings of the Holy Spirit.

italo: Revelation 12:
1 A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head. 2 She was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth. 3 Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on its heads. 4 Its tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. The dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth, so that it might devour her child the moment he was born. 5 She gave birth to a son, a male child, who “will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.”[a] And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne. 6 The woman fled into the wilderness to a place prepared for her by God, where she might be taken care of for 1,260 days.
 7 Then war broke out in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. 8 But he was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven. 9 The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.

 10 Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say:

   “Now have come the salvation and the power
   and the kingdom of our God,
   and the authority of his Messiah.
For the accuser of our brothers and sisters,
   who accuses them before our God day and night,
   has been hurled down.
11 They triumphed over him
   by the blood of the Lamb
   and by the word of their testimony;
they did not love their lives so much
   as to shrink from death.
12 Therefore rejoice, you heavens
   and you who dwell in them!
But woe to the earth and the sea,
   because the devil has gone down to you!
He is filled with fury,
   because he knows that his time is short.”

 13 When the dragon saw that he had been hurled to the earth, he pursued the woman who had given birth to the male child. 14 The woman was given the two wings of a great eagle, so that she might fly to the place prepared for her in the wilderness, where she would be taken care of for a time, times and half a time, out of the serpent’s reach. 15 Then from his mouth the serpent spewed water like a river, to overtake the woman and sweep her away with the torrent. 16 But the earth helped the woman by opening its mouth and swallowing the river that the dragon had spewed out of his mouth. 17 Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to wage war against the rest of her offspring—those who keep God’s commands and hold fast their testimony about Jesus.

Who is this woman with a crown of 12 stars in heaven?

It doesn't sound like she's a maid to me.

Dude the above chapter/verses have nothing to do with Mary.
The only queen mentioned in the book of Revelation is the great har*l*t......in Revelation17 and 18.

italo: To be born-again means to be born of water and spirit.

John 3:3,5 - Jesus says, "Truly, truly, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God." When Jesus said "water and the Spirit," He was referring to baptism (which requires the use of water, and the work of the Spirit).

John 3:22 - after teaching on baptism,St. John says Jesus and the disciples did what? They went into Judea where the disciples baptized. Jesus' teaching about being reborn by water and the Spirit is in the context of baptism.

John 4:1 - here is another reference to baptism which naturally flows from Jesus' baptismal teaching in John 3:3-5.

our Lord said to Nicodemus,"Truly,truly i say to you,unless one is born of water and the Spirit,he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God"..Jhn3:5.
Paul wrote to the saints in Rome saying,
"Or are you ignorant that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death?we have been buried therefore with Him through baptism into His death,in order that just as Christ was raised from the dead through the Glory of the Father,so also we might walk in the newness of life.for if we have grown together with Him in the likeness of His death,indeed we will also be in the likeness of His Resurrection"(Rom6:3-5).
Both our Lord Jesus and Paul spoke of the REALITY of BAPTISM.
The baptism that our Lord mentioned to Nicodemus was a REALITY.the baptism that Paul saw was a burial with the Lord,with the result of one walking in newness of Life.
To the Colossns believers,he spoke of being"BURIED TOGETHER with HIM in BAPTISM"(Col.2:12)
That is when Christ died,we(Christains) died with Him,when He Resurrected we resurrected with Him and now walk with the newness of His Ressurected Life here on earth.
The physical aspect(WATER) is just merely an acceptance of that which had taken place spiritually.

italo: FYI

Mary is more than relevant.

That you don't understand something doesn't make it bad.

Mary intercedes for us.

Mary is the Queen of Heaven.

dude,there's no queen in the Heavens of our Lord Jesus Christ.
God has no wife.

Emylexray: GENESIS 17 vs 2: and when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the lord appeared to Abram and said unto him, I am the almighty God, ''WALK BEFORE ME AND BE THOU PERFECT''.
Over time, i have concurred totally with the saying ''no one is perfect'' of which i am sure most of you agree with that assertion too.
As mortals, we can never be perfect else we will be equating ourselves with God if we claim we can be. My question is from the aforementioned scripture i quoted, with emphasis on the words in capitals ''WALK BEFORE ME AND BE THOU PERFECT'' now, why was God expecting perfection from Abram? (as he was being called then) , a human being like me and you. Was God expecting Abraham to be like him?
Please i need to be clarified on this.

Emylexray: GENESIS 17 vs 2: and when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the lord appeared to Abram and said unto him, I am the almighty God, ''WALK BEFORE ME AND BE THOU PERFECT''.
Over time, i have concurred totally with the saying ''no one is perfect'' of which i am sure most of you agree with that assertion too.
As mortals, we can never be perfect else we will be equating ourselves with God if we claim we can be. My question is from the aforementioned scripture i quoted, with emphasis on the words in capitals ''WALK BEFORE ME AND BE THOU PERFECT'' now, why was God expecting perfection from Abram? (as he was being called then) , a human being like me and you. Was God expecting Abraham to be like him?
Please i need to be clarified on this.

The word "WALK" in your quoted verse(WALK BEFORE ME AND BE THOU PERFECT) is in a progressive tense.
When we walk with God(doing only His Will by the leadings of the Holy Spirit).we are perfect in His Sight.
Jhn1:12,says Yet to all who received Him,to those who believed in His name,He gave the "Right" to "BECOME" children of God.
As we(Christains) are lead by the Holy Spirit completely we have the "Right" to "Become"(become here is progressive in nature) Perfect.because God is perfect.

jmoore: To be born again means to be born of the spirit. This is a new life given to those who accept Jesus as the saviour.

If you are born again, you are in Christ Jesus Romans 8:1, 14, 16, 17
"Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. Because those who are led by the Spirit of God, are sons of God . . . The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children. Now if we are children, then we are heirs - heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory."


For those who are not yet born gain, you can the say the prayer below to be born again. This prayer must be sincere and you must acknowledge that Jesus is your saviour.

"God, I know that I have sinned against you and am deserving of punishment.I ask for your forgiveness of all my sins. I believe and accept you Jesus as my savior , I place my trust in You for salvation. Thank You for Your wonderful grace and forgiveness—the gift of eternal life! Amen!"

So true!!!

One had to accept the price that have been paid,and apply it to every area of his/her life.by Prayers/Fellowship.
So that His Will that have been done 2000yrs ago,will be express in his/her daily life here on earth...Matt6:10.
The key is PRAYERS/FELLOWSHIP.

chinedumo: [size=20pt]Jesus is not GOD because Mary gave birth to HIM[/size]

Your point is valid
Mary is Jesus' earthly mother for the time being he was on earth. If he is to be Born into the world again he will come in another woman's womb.

Even if Jesus is not GOD MARY IS STILL HIS MOTHER

HER MOTHER-SHIP HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH HIS GODNESS

YOU POINT UPHOLDS MINE

What's your point actually? And who is the bible referring to in Jhn1:1......And the Word was God.
Jhn1:14.The Word became flesh and made His dwelling among us.

italo: Of course that passage doesn't say what I.chuka is trying to force it to say.

Please Can you define "enternal life" for us,thanks.

Image123: Of course, anything can be lost if one is careless. You can lose weight, money, life, sanity, yourself, salvation, anything.

Image123: The passage does not say that you can't loose eternal life once you have it. Are you forcing your opinion on this scripture?

What are you insinuating?
How can one lose eternal life,once he/she have recieved it?the life is "ENTERNAL".
Unless you are calling God a liar.

Image123: Source??

Jhn3:16.

Image123: Of course, anything can be lost if one is careless. You can lose weight, money, life, sanity, yourself, salvation, anything.

The "Gift" is inexhaustible.(you dont lose enternal life once you have it,because its Enternal).

5solas: This gift of salvation, because it is giving in love, to the undeserving, cannot would not, be withdrawn.

Very true!!!

cooltrycia: i agree some cant even recognis God's voice thats y they end up prayin and prophesyin and members remain the same.i have had similar dreams which clearly indicat God want somtin 4rm u BT IT MUST NT BE PASTORING u cn serve ur call anywher there countles ministry DNT TRY 2 HLP GOD BY OPENIN A CHURCH! RELAX AND ENJOY UR LIFE IF THATS WHAT HE WANTS HE WIL GUID U THERE WITOUT UR HELP EVEN IF HE HS TO AREST U LIK SAUL, JST PRAY AND LET HIM NAVIGATE Uu

Well said.

[quote author=italo]I have already concluded on you, mister. Why should I go on. Our problem is not scripture. Our problem lies within your skull. Whatever is there makes you incapable of understanding even the least things. You must take care of the root cause, not just the symptoms.

I dey laugh....
Seriously dude,you have to confess Jesus as your Lord and Saviour.
The earlier you do that the better for you,Jesus loves you.He hate seen people going to hell.

chukwudi44: God created Adam from dust and eve from adam's ribs.Why didn't God just create man from nothing?

Why didn't Jesus just descend from heaven?

How is Jesus a descendant of david if there was no transfer of genetic materials from any of David's descendants?

It was man that sinned,so its man that have to pay for the penalty of sin which is death.
HE came in the likeness of our sinful nature.....Rom8:3.
He created the Heavens and earth out of Nothing,so becoming flesh in the womb of Mary is no problem to Him....Jer32:27.

Pastor AIO: Very incorrect according to Islam!!! Are you sure that you're in the right religion?

Christainity have nothing to do with religion.but,Christ Himself!and the Life of a Christain is also Christ....Col3:4.

chukwudi44: Joseph did not play any role in the incarnation process and thus his tribe would not have mattered any way.Jesus's human nature came from only mary

chukwudi44: Joseph did not play any role in the incarnation process and thus his tribe would not have mattered any way.Jesus's human nature came from only mary

So God that created the Heavens and the earth,with all the living things including us humans,had to borrow a human nature from one of His creation.
Sir,this acsertation in very incorrect according to the Bible.

italo: By now, it is safe to say, anti-Catholicism comes with mental problems. Just look at the garbage these clowns are spewing.

is this your best shot?
Like i told you earlier,you guys dont know the scriptures nor the power of God....Matt22:29.
If your god had a Mother,he(our god) is still in the grave.
The God of Heaven had no Mother.He is God in Heaven and was God when He walked the earth 2000yrs ago,because He was God the grave cant hold Him,infact He swallow up the power of grave which is death forever in His victory......Isaiah25:8.

italo: @I.chuka,

I have already answered your questions so I don't know why you are asking them again. Why don't you address my question?

Once again Jesus was speaking the mind of God when he called his mother "woman" and Jesus did not "rebuke" those people. Perhaps what you need is a dictionary.

Now do you mind answering me? Under whose inspiration were John and the angel writing and speaking? This is about the fourth time I'm asking you this.

So your Jesus is speaking the mind of God?..ok.but,Jesus my Lord dont speak the mind of any god,for He is GOD HIMSELF.
This is the third time am asking you this..under who's inspiration did Jesus call Mary "Woman" throughout in the Gospels?

chukwudi44: Mark 3:32-35

New American Standard Bible (NASB)

32 A crowd was sitting around Him, and they *said to Him, “Behold, Your mother and Your brothers are outside looking for You.” 33 Answering them, He *said, “Who are My mother and My brothers?” 34 Looking about at those who were sitting around Him, He *said, “Behold My mother and My brothers! 35 For whoever does the will of God, he is My brother and sister and mother.”

Where is the rebuke in that passage above?

"Who is My Mother and My Brothers?" HE ASKED...Matt3:33.
Sir,nah REBUKE b dat shikinah!!

chukwudi44: Hope u don't mind showing me bible passages where Jesus REBUKED anyone for calling Mary his mother.

Whether you call me a christian or not does not alter my status before God.If you like continue being "harsh"

Mark3:32-33.
Sorry for the "harshness" Sir.

italo: 1. Jesus did not "categorically deny" being the son of David
2. Jesus did not "rebuke" those who called Mary his Mother
3. We are not the "confused" bunch. We've been teaching the same thing for 2000yrs. Its you guys that preach different things from one shop to another.
4. How do you know that is the woman we "worship/honour"? Have you worshipped her before? Are you in our minds?

When i said you guys are not Christains some might think am a bit harsh.
Did you read the quotes i gave earlier from the scriptures?

italo: I, For one, call my mother "baby". Does that mean she's not my mother?

I know men who never refer to their wives by the word "wife". They say "mama xyz" or "mama abc". Does that mean they are not their wives? Likewise some women only call their husbands "chief", does that mean they aren't their husbands?

I can't remember Jesus calling his disciples "disciples". He called them "brothers", "friends" etc. Does it mean they were not his disciples?

Jesus calling his mother "woman" doesn't prove that she's not his mother. But the angel calling her his mother proves that she's his mother.

To answer your question directly: of course Jesus was speaking the mind of God when he called his mother "woman". But that does not mean that she's not his mother.

Now can you answer me? Under whose inspiration did John and the angel write and speak? Still unanswerable?

under which inspiration did Jesus "Rebuked" those calling Mary His Mother,and Him calling her Woman throughout in the Gospels?

chukwudi44: I wonder who inspired the angel of the Lord to say this in mattew 2:13

{2} And when they were departed, behold, the angel of the Lord appeareth to Joseph in a dream, saying, Arise, and take the young child and his MOTHER, and flee into Egypt, and be thou there until I bring thee word: for Herod will seek the young child to destroy him.

I also wonder who inspired Jesus to call Mary "WOMAN" in the Gospel.
Or do you guys call your Mother "WOMAN"?

italo: Sir, the question remains: under whose inspiration was John writing when he referred to Mary as Jesus' mother?

Thank you!

You'd rather die than answer that, right?

Lmao!

Some say He's the son of David,He categorically denied it...Matt22:42-46.
Others calls Mary and her Children His Mother and Brothers,He "rebuked" them instantly.......Matt12:48-50.
And you a non-Christain is here calling Mary her Mother.
God is not an author of confusion...1Cor14:33.
You and your cohorts are the confused bunch.
The biblical Mary is not a catholic period!
The woman you guys worship/honor is a demon(one of the principalities in high places)...Jer7:18,Rev18:7.

italo: Sir, the question is: under whose inspiration was John writing when he referred to Mary as Jesus' mother?

Thank you

you will never understand.confess Jesus as your Lord and Saviour,then His Spirit will dwell in you and your Bat eyes will be open......Luke24:31.

italo: Sir, the question is: under whose inspiration was John writing when he referred to Mary as Jesus' mother?

Thank you

Why are you trying so hard to shift the Goal post?
Jesus never call her "Mother". you are here calling her His Mother.
Have you ever heard of someone,that seek the consent of his/her parent to be born?....Luke1:28-38.

italo: Under whose inspiration was John writing this: (John 19:26) 'When Jesus saw his MOTHER there, and the disciple whom he loved standing nearby, he said to her, “Woman,[b] here is your son,”'

Tell us it was not under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit that John refers to Mary as 'his mother'.

How do you refer to your mum?do you call her Woman or Mother?
If Mary is the Mother of Jesus,why would He refer to her as Woman through out in the Gospel?
I reaffirm "GOD HAS NO Mother".
If your God has a Mother,then you are not a Christain Period!!

chukwudi44: This is utter delusion.It is obvious one can't engage in sensible argument with you.finally you have accepted Jesus came from david's lineage yet you are still disputing if mary gave birth to his human naure.How else do you think Jesus descended from david

what is wrong with you guys?the lineage of David is like a tunnel HE came through and became flesh in the womb of Mary,His blood and flesh are Divine,thats the reason it has the power to Redeem and Save us.
Though He is God,HE had to seek for permission to pass through the lineage of David....Psalm24:7-10.
HE also seek the consent of Mary to come through her...Luke1:28-38.

italo: Rubbish. I trust you can make a more sensible comment. Or does 'anti-Catholicism' come with diminishing mental capacity?

if you can discern words spoken by the Holy Spirit and one by the human spirit,you have no business been a Christain.
GOD had no Mother Period!!!

chukwudi44: Young man stop beating around the bush and answer my questions.You are pathetic.Don't you know the Virgin Mary descended from the clan of David?You keep saying the word became flesh ,how do you think that happened?how did the word become flesh ?this is the bone of our argument.where is the source of Jesus's human nature?

It is pertinent to state that Mary is not the source of Jesus's divine nature as it has existed right from the begining

The same way HE created the Heavens and the earth..Gen1:1,HE parted the Red Sea..Exod14:21,HE sent forth Manna and Quail..Exod16:13,HE rose the dead,healed the sick,cleanse the leper,drives out demons...Matt10:8,HE fed thousand..Matt14:16-21,Mark6:32-44,Luke9:10-17,Jhn6:1-13,HE walks on water..Matt14:26,Mark6:45-51,Jhn6:15-21....is the same way HE became flesh in the womb of Mary.