₦airaland Forum

TheSuperNerd:
But westerhof started this same "inexperienced" Okocha in '94 Afcon final.

Why are you guys so quick to forget that?

Look, there are always exceptions to the "experience rule".

Thompson Oliha didnt play that final for reasons i cant recall. Either suspension or injury.
I hope i can find that reason on google. (No b everything dey google.)

TheGoodJoe:

Westerhof played the best players. I wonder how you jumped from that to young players. Westerhof did not use experience as a criteria but the players he felt were the best for each role.

I am not talking of blooding in youngsters. I am talking about the best. Whether he is inexperienced or not.

OMG

Jefersoun:
I think we should know when to put talent ahead of experience. You can't put talent ahead of experience when dealing with some vital positions, just as head of institutions, world bank, contruction companies, to mention but a few. You just have to gain experience to be able to handle difficult times, pressure, competition and so much more. We are not disputing talent for a bit. You just have to know when to put one first before the other.

U sabi jare bro.

tbaba1234:
Your post almost tried to paint westerhof as a man who just favored experience but he blooded in so many young players...

I however agree with you on principle regarding the importance of experience... A good balance of experience and youth is always good.

U have said it. A good balance of experience and youth. And not "Kill that experience talk".

The young players ride on the backs of their experienced collleagues. Mikel has brought out the best in Iwobi and Iheanacho for instance some thing a young Central midfielder like Esiti or Chidi Nwakali could nt have achieved so quickly.

tbaba1234:
But Westerhof also gave a starting shirt to Oliseh, who was 19 at the time... Okocha started some games in Tunisia '94 and world cup 94. He was just not always a starter. Amuneke was also a youngster at the time.

Ikpeba was not that hot in 1993-1994... He just joined Monaco...

Westerhof did give opportunities to young players. He just did it gradually.

Good. All coaches give young players opportunities. But what i stand against TheGoodJoe saying Westerhof never used experience as a yard stick in team selection
Look at Westerhof's defense did u see any Rookie?

Weaterhof capped a 19years old oliseh, young Okocha and Amuneke jst like Rohr capped a 19yrs old Iheanacho, Iwobi, Ndidi, Simon, Mohammed, hu are all U20s.

Did Westerhof play any Rookie keeper or Defender all through from Algiers '90 to Tunisia 94 & USA '94.

Jefersoun:
So what bases did he use in selecting mikel for the Algeria clash. Remember mikel has not played a match for almost a month now. That is where the exception to some rules comes in.

To mention the word "Experience" is like a taboo to TheGoodJoe.

TheGoodJoe:
Overtime, I have studied it, Westerhof had no place for experience. He only had space for the best. As soon as a regular drops form, he had a younger replacement ready. It was after Westerhof went that the competition dropped and I started hearing a player should keep his place because of experience.

Is it the same Westerhof that kept a very skillful but inexperienced Okocha on the bench and played a less fancifull but more experienced Thompson Oliha at the '94 AFCON and '94 WC.

What of keeping a young Victor Ikpeba that was in blistering form at AS Monaco on the bench and fielding Yekini and Siasia who were playing at less fancied clubs particularly Siasia.

The only good thing Yekini did right at that WC was that tap in goal against Bulgaria. Yekini didnt have a good tournament IMO.

What of Siasia whose only highlight for that WC was the goal against Argentina. Ikpeba was playing in a better club and better league than Siasia and was also in a sizzling form. But Westerhof chose Siasia ahead of him as the second striker bc of Siasia's wealth of experience.

Westerhof also favoured experience. Take a look at his defense of 1994. The youngest player was Ben Iroha who joined the team in 1989( Five years before that 94 WC).

I know u too well TheGoodJoe. Any time u want a young player u love included in the Super Eagles u start shouting "Kill that experience thing".

I know how we argued in the past abt Victor Osimhen and Taiwo Awoniyi being experienced enough for the U23(not even the Super Eagles)

Now it is Alampasu. Ok kontinuu.

TheGoodJoe:


Historically, I totally agree. When he was off form, we were wrong playing him continuously.

U've forgotten his goals qualified us for that WC. He was still our best striker as at prio to that WC.

TheGoodJoe:
Westerhof wasted no time in dropping a big game player for a fresh better option. Westerhof regularly drilled his players and screened them.

Most things I learnt watching his training session stuck to me. It was after Westerhof I started hearing things like experience.

Westerhof will bench any big game player that does not meet up. Fact. Benched a big game player like Ekoku for missing a sitter.

Maybe u meant issue of experience never occured to you until after westerhof.

Just like as in every profession experience counts alot bt this is relative as different positions in a team jst like different professions require different levels of experience.

There is no coach that is not midfull of the place of experience in d defense and goal keeping departments.

TheGoodJoe:

Even National team players injure during training. Watch goalkeeper trainings, it is all drills. Forward line training, shooting drills, some with artificial walls.

Team work training, you see different positional set ups, with one or two balls moving. You do not just light jog. The jogging and workouts is for fitness.

Whether club or National team training, drills make a big part of it. I watched lots of Westerhof's training sessions.

I am a product of the Westerhof's coaching school.

Go for coaching courses then lets discuss this thing as coaches.

TheGoodJoe:


This is something I noticed a long time. I watched lots of analyst and pundits. This is where many, including top coaches miss it.

When once you have favorites, bias creeps in and poor judgments take place. Let the current form be the judge.

No insults meant but i feel maybe u need to take up some coaching courses.

But till then....

TheGoodJoe:

I totally disagree with Rohr with his big game players argument and it almost cost us. I doubt Ndidi would make that right-back role. He made it because of he is a "Big Game Player". That is why I want those kind of points kicked out.

It makes weak options. We need the best in every role. Among all selected, screen them thoroughly with tough drills and select the best that suits the team's philosophy.

I have no doubt Musa Mohammed would have done better than Ndidi in that role.

Same goes with Alampasu (if he excels over the others in camp.)

U know the team better than Rohr and Salisu right?

TheGoodJoe:


Yes. What do you think coaching is about? Just like City, you keep drilling to make sure the regulars are in perfect shape to maintain the team's form.

Go and get training clips of different teams. They keep performing drills. You screen to know the best in every role and keep the best on their toes with players who will challenge them for their positions.

Even the scrimmage games are in some way drills on how the players will adapt to the team's planned formation.

You and this ur city.Coaching at club level is different from coaching at the national team level.

National team Coaches usually pencil down players for the games even before the camping commences. They merely have 4-5 days not a whole season to train.

Its usually more of light joggings, kick-abouts , minifriendlies and plotting of tactics.

The drills are usually light to avoid injuries.
This a major reason y coaches prefer players hu are active in their clubs. They spend more time practising tactics than those "drills" u have always been mentioning.

TheGoodJoe:

I totally disagree with Rohr with his big game players argument and it almost cost us. I doubt Ndidi would make that right-back role. He made it because of he is a "Big Game Player". That is why I want those kind of points kicked out.

It makes weak options. We need the best in every role. Among all selected, screen them thoroughly with tough drills and selected the best that suits the team's philosophy.

I have no doubt Musa Mohammed would have done better than Ndidi in that role.

Same goes with Alampasu (if he excels over the others in camp.)

"Screen them thoroughly with tough drills"?

What do you think camping grounds are?

You think the way players are selected for Super Eagles is like the way players are screened for the Golden Eaglets.

TheSuperNerd:
**Takes off shoes to take off**

"The Arch-Apostle of "Experience" JUST LANDED!!!! The Guardian of the halls of Experience himself... Chaiiiii.... Oga Experience!!! Everybody scram!!!!

**zooms outta thread**


https://static1.squarespace.com/static/568563ed841abad82353c134/t/568571c40bfe8eb3f6b2fb10/1451586041625/ideal-run.gif

No need to run.

Thank God i now have Co-Apostles.

And they have represented well.

Rohr saying no automatic shirt for any player is normal. That is what coaches usually say bt deep down within them they know players hu are likely to start.

From my little knowledge of coaching,
Let me jst give some insight on how most coaches make selections for games like this.

1. The technical crew goes through tapes of their opponents. Among other things they spot both their strength and weakness.

2. The coaches look into their squad to identify a player or players that can really exploit those weaknesses of the opponent. At that point the coach pencils down that player or small unit of 2-3 players. Baring any injuriries those players have made the match day squad expecially if their abilities are never in doubt irrespective of what happens in training. Eg: V. Moses, Iheanacho and Iwobi are likely starters.It means d coach must know the individual abilities in his players. They also setup mini-formations to foil their major threats.

3. COACHES DONT WAIT TILL CAMPING BEFORE THEY KNOW THEIR STARTING 11. Camping may jst b an opportunity for 1 or 2 players to break into the starting 11 due to various reason. The coaches may also use camping to test various formations. This point is a major reasons why u hear that certain players were shinning in camp but still didn't make the match day squad. TheGoodJoe , take note of this this point. I know u will definitelt counter it but that is pure fact!

4. At the commencement of camping any coach that does not have atleast 9 players that he has programmed to start is destined for a doom.

Musa Mohammed played against Montenegro and Mali in friendlies. He was impressive.

Musa Mohammed played all 90mins against Tanzania and Rohr himself took time out to shower him encomiums.

It got to the game against Zambia and what we heard " WE NEED THE BIG EXPERIENCE PLAYERS FOR THE BIG GAME".

Do you think Alampasu, with zero cap, stands a chance to be the goal keeper in this "Big game" under this same coach that could not trust a faultless Mohammed for a RB position?

cc: TeamAlampasu: safarigirl, TheSuperNerd, TheGoodJoe, Bascovanveli.

TheGoodJoe:
If he does not Outshine them and he sits on the bench, that is absolutely fine with me. Let the best in camp keep.

Let the best in camp keeps.

Alampasu cannot be the best goalie in camp.

He will not even sit on the bench bc only two goalies make the match day squad.

TheGoodJoe:

I disagree with that. Kick that experience talk out. The best in camp keeps. If the experience is so golden, the other keepers should easily Outshine Alampasu. If they can not, then we are opting for a weaker option.

Good morning everyone. Have a nice day.

"Kick that experience talk out"?
Then let us field our U17 team against Algeria.

There is no way Alampasu can even be the best goalie in camp. Because he is not the best.

I repeat, even if Akpeyi and Ezenwa are injured, Alampasu will still not be in goal against Algeria.

TheGoodJoe:

I do not think he will outshine anyone. I just explained that I disagree with the point of dropping Alampasu because of experience. Keepers like Courtois and De Gea got big breaks because coaches looked at their talent, not experience.

You tried your best to paint Alampasu weak. If Alampasu outshines them in camp, it means they are weaker than the weak keeper you tried to paint Alampasu.

My point is simple. Who performs best in camp, should start. No excuses.

Alampasu will very likely not outshine any of the other 2 goalies in camp.

Attention of the coaches would be more on Ezenwa and Akpeyi.

Alampasu cannot start that game.

It is either Ezenwa or Akpeyi.
Alampasu was just included in the team to train with the goalies and gather some more experience.

Rohr said it that his third choice goalie has to be a much younger person. For the Tanzania and Zambia games it was Emmanuel Daniel.

Even if Ezenwa and Akpeyi are ruled of the Algeria clash due to what soever reason, Alampasu will still not be in goal.
For one, Emmanuel Daniel is even ahead of Alampasu. There are other good goalies in the NPFL like Femi Thomas, Theophilus Afelokhai.

I know it is only one person hear that could have mention Dele Ayenugba.

TheSuperNerd:
Yes it did! Oh yes it did.... 3 afcons misses in 5 years? The thickest darkness descended and came crashing down on our football.... So heaven did fall.

So did our football die from the impact of that crash?

enomakos:
bro vincent is not coming back

Simple.

TheSuperNerd:
According to probability since this never happened..... There was 50% chance of that not happening had Ikeme been in goal and 50% chance of us still losing with Ikeme.

So I can't say because it never happened. But that's me being scientifically analytical.

Truth is... Ikeme would have inspired much better confidence in our defence that day than Akpeyi... #fact

Ikeme would have possibly kept out that goal Akpeyi conceeded also from Ramadan Sobhi.

But again.... All are assumptions (albeit based on some facts and proven trust), so we can never know.

But as we didn't qualify did Heaven fall?

terzurum5:
Akpeyi is not my option, my ideal goalkeepers at the moment are Vincent Enyeama and Okechukwu Ezenwa.

How ever you and I am aware that Ezenwa has not been that active for some months now , why Enyeama is active for his club.

The NPFL is on break but the French League is not.

Am not against trying Alampasu.
Try him in a match that even if we loose we may not be pained that much.

The match against Algeria is so much important that we can't afford to try an inexperienced goalkeeper as far as national team is concerned.

Try him in a friendly match or in any of the matches where we must have qualified so that even if he flops we will not have so much regrets.

Ezenwa to me is in a better form than Akpeyi. He is also more tested.

TheSuperNerd:
@Bolded... Sir Icons..... Heaven did fall oooo..... We missed out on the Afcon for the third time in five years.... Haba!!!!! Heaven fell ooooo......

Do u think we would not have lost if Ikeme was in goal?

terzurum5:
Now between Vincent Enyeama, the NFF, Coach Sunday Oliseh and so many of us who are against the idea of recalling Vincent who is more proud.

The NFF treated this guy like an enemy.
Coach Sunday Oliseh followed suit.
We are still thinking the same way on this forum, any time his name is mention.

Oga Icon4s must tell me why he thinks the guy is too proud.

Now is the right time for your clamour for experience which I bought into?

I was personally against Oliseh's appointment of Ahmed Musa as team captain ahead of Enyeama and Mikel.

I supported Enyeama's decision to quit after that incident. However, his comments after that incident have not portayed him in good light. He became so unpatriotic and doesn't want his name mentioned in any quarters.

Yes I am an Apostle of experience. Enyeama is not the only experienced goalie we have. So i say Ezenwa and Akpeyi are experienced enough for the job. Afterall Akpeyi was in goal in the return leg of the clash with the Pharaohs. Did heaven fall that day?

terzurum5:
Buffon started at age 17, unless I forget. Am not too sure but it is certain he started at a young age too.

Oga you are talking about risk and opportunity? Hehehe

Remember this is not Club football where you cant just feature any goalkeeper just because he is promising.

One lose and you are out in national competitions.

I am not against Alampasu. It is good if we invite him to study other goalkeepers in camp. If possible we might feature him in a friendly match or a match not of high magnitude as the Algerian match.

What is so big about letting Vincent Enyeama understand how important he is to our World Cup Qualifiers?

He is our Jesus in goal even when he was not too impressive in his Club.

I am even surprised to see that even Sir Icon4s A.K.A Oga Experience feels it's better we field Alampasu than recalling V. Enyeama.

I know Rohr will not field Alampasu. I was jst being sarcastic.

Pls we dnt need to go begging Enyeama.

I believe Ezenwa can do it. We are playing at home and so i dnt expect d defense to be under so much pressure.

terzurum5:
You would rather we plan an Alampasu and concede so many goals than play an Enyeama Vincent who is a Jesus in goal come rain come sunshine right

He is a Jesus to his family and maybe his village in Etim-Ekpo.

I detest people who are too proud.

This use of "he" and "her". Is the cook a man or a woman?

terzurum5:
Enyeama is seriously enjoying this Drama.

So many people felt we do not need Vicent again, since K. Ikeme's exploit.

Which drama?

He must be insane if he feels that way.

Rather than going back to beg for Enyeama's recall i would rather we play Alampasu.

Nonsense.

tbaba1234:
Akpeyi will be fit apparently. So we will have to manage him.

Ikechukwu Ezenwa is our second choice goalie.

Carl is out, so Ezenwa it is.

For those calling for Alampasu, be rest assured that it cannot be him.

Rohr may likely recall Emmanuel Daniel who will now become second choice to Ezenwa.

Ezenwa is a very experienced and brilliant goalie.
I feel sad that Carl would not make it but I believe Ezenwa can manage to deliver.