₦airaland Forum

which of the Gods, Allah, Jehovah, Jesus,Olorun,Chi, Mawu, et al?

Infidel, may the spirit of Robert Ingersoll abides in you,

thank you. you see, very simple what is the trap en

Res Judicata

my initial question was a valid one and was asked in all honesty, so what and where is the trap?

to recap, i asked whether you would agree with me that allah is not the same being as jehovah or yahweh, olorun, chi, mawu and other names for the supreme being in many cultures and you are turning the whole thing into something else.

cgift:
For the guys with the biblical contradiction, they seem no t understand what contrdictions mean. But come to think of it, how can Allah be helpless this much; he dances to th whims and caprices of his prophet.

you made mention of allah and I was only reacting to your post since it seemed that you know that much about him.

you could have just stated that you have no idea about my question instead of all the rigmaroles.

dont get me wrong I am not an allah apologetic.

thank you  flakey, i only asked cgift a simple question, see what it has led to, 

even ke

we will always be at odds with each other

tundewoods:
IDINRETE definately is confused even though he seems to show some humor in is thread but we can't be decieved he certainly is confused.

As ricadelide rightly said,he said that for your sake,if left for you to decide between life and perdition

me confused in what sense?
does my humor deceive you?
can you show or prove the certainty of me being confused?

nope he did not say that for my sake. the guy had a premonition that he was going to be crucified right, so he did not anticipate the amount of suffering he will endure that is why he cried out, 

as you have threatened, my choice is perdition

ricadelide:
@idinreteDo you know it was because of you he experienced that which he was crying out about ?

and why, if i may ask, do you not believe in the biblical God (considering that you believe in Jesus)?

[me ke olorun m'aje] did he not say he was sent to the lost tribe of Israel, so wetin concern me with the Hebrew people. so what is my own ;  so god can cry that is a good one 
D

i dont beleive in the biblical god because he is a johnny come lately and he wrought too many atrocities. the OT is full of so much violence,bigotry;murder,sexual immoralities[ king david come to my mind] and all other vile escapades that he commanded or supported.

to avoid confusion ergo, I choose perdition are you happy now?

cgift:
Well, i wont evn answer your question because you do not believe their is God. Do you believe Jesus ver lived in the first place?

@babs, what is it? If you have the liver, put the issues out one after the other and lets iron it. Dont muddle them up.

In answer to your question in bold yes, I beleive in one jesus that cried "me! me! why has thou forsaken me"

that is the interpretation I can give that passage that I read from the Bible, if I were to beleive that there is a biblical god

cgift:
Well, i wont evn answer your question because you do not believe their is God. Do you believe Jesus ver lived in the first place?

@babs, what is it? If you have the liver, put the issues out one after the other and lets iron it. Dont muddle them up.

ha ha cgift

nice one, na wah o

but I asked a valid question now, what has me believing in god or believing in whether jesus ever lived got to do with my question.
you may never know you might still convert me o

Markenny:
A LETTER TO YOU FROM SATAN



, He kicked me out of heaven, and I'm
going to use you as long as possible to pay him back,

do you have satan's address?

cgift:
For the guys with the biblical contradiction, they seem no t understand what contrdictions mean. But come to think of it, how can Allah be helpless this much; he dances to th whims and caprices of his prophet.

hello cgift

a lot of issues are unsettling for me and one of them is the concept of GOD. would you agree with me that allah is not the same being as jehovah or yahweh, olorun, chi, mawu and other names for the supreme being in many cultures.

Seun:
Satan is your enemy. Do you love him passionately?

Obantalapipi

your mind is twisted and warped
abeg dont suspend me im only joking o

Zandra1:
@ dindirette, I put it in bracket to substitute it the way I wanted it to be so do urs your way. If u look harder u will see that the actual words that I want to substitute with Of My Family is Of Israel and Of The Tribe Of Judah. Just see or do it any way u deem fit.

i was only reacting to Dios in the first place  i could not control my laughter the way he made his remarks.

anyhow it is your substitute.

take care

Seun:
Which God? The Bibilical God who asked Joshua to kill and destroy the Caananites, including their babies?

Seun na wa for you o, you beat me to the question

Dios:
What do you mean by "Judah(Of my Family)" and Isreal(Of my Family)? WHAT THE F#CK
AND WHAT THE HELL IS "DEFENCE OF THE DEFENCED"?

Dios, Dios Dios


wah oh im bursting

MisterMan:
I don't know if he spoke in Hebrew. Really, I don't know why the question. I have just posted a related thread (I had prepared it before I even read this).  I think the title of the thread is Death entered through sin. Really?

2. was the serpent walking upright before the lord god cursed it?

I wasn't there so I don't know if it was walking upright. However, since God cursed it that it would be crawling, one can deduce that it was not crawling before then. Crawling is really no big deal. MMillipedeand centipede do that. Remember that God said that the serpent will eat dust. I was taught in O Level Biology that Serpents are carnivorous animals. Serpents DO NOT eat dust

fair enough that you dont know if the serpent spoke in hebrew, why the question is that you posted that the serpent said unto the woman, maybe the serpent spoke to her in spanish or french

crawling is really a big deal, so you deduced that the serpent was walking upright before god cursed it, 

it is good that biology taught you that serpent are carnivorous animals and DO NOT EAT DUST
therefore this verse is otiose and impractical, "And the Lord God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:"

if you dont believe in the verses literally that is fine

aboru aboye abosise

ose pupo fun Odu-Ifa verse
Orunmila Bara mi Agbonmiregun a gbo ti e o Irunmale a tun ti e se o

Dios be careful o!

the question is who is God and you are singing bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla 

abeg answer the question or give your own interpretation jooooooooo

im not sure if you are a jurist as your poster's name suggests, if so kudos to you my learned friend,

your article is quite intriguing, it shows the scope of phantasm that most people have been subjected to in the name of miracle.
anyway, i dont blame the miracle connoisseurs because they are very smart in hawking, advertising and selling their product.

my hearts bleeds for the deluded superstitious believers.

when you finally write a book on the so-called miracles, a religious yarn spawned by transparent fictions  i will like an autographed copy, 


more girisi to your elbow

Seun will make you SAN very soon SENIOR ADVOCATE OF NAIRALAND trust me

you think so!

paul hijacking the gospel of jesus christ and calling peter hypocrite was enough for him and all other jews to hate him, even his companion barnabas deserted him because of his megalomania and ego

Misterman kindly clarify these points please:

3:04 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall surely not die:

1. did the serpent speak unto the woman in Hebrew?


3:14 And the Lord God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

2. was the serpent walking upright before the lord god cursed it?

enitan2002:
^{if na play make you stop am ooooo}
do you know what we guys (pilgrim and I) have been up to behind Nairaland, i would've loved to let her choose between you and I. but id ont want to hurt your feelings towards her, because i definitely know she's going to choose me.^{I just hope otuwe wont be annoyed with two of us again trying to change this thread to a romantic one.}

I will like us to meet someday on GRAILLAND, what do you think?

enitan o you have come again she!

dont compare me with paul for he was a deluded megalomaniac-thats is why peter hated him with vehemence and vice versa

of course Jehovah aka Yaweh is real his handiworks attests to that

cgift:
idinrete,

the infidels have becom your pasttime now. Do not be caught off-guard. there is more to life than meets the eyes

the Infidels, why not?
caught off-guard from what?

About the Holy Bible
by Robert G. Ingersoll
1894
**** ****
Somebody ought to tell the truth about the Bible. The preachers dare not, because they would be driven from their pulpits. Professors in colleges dare not, because they would lose their salaries. Politicians dare not. They would be defeated. Editors dare not. They would lose subscribers. Merchants dare not, because they might lose customers. Men of fashion dare not, fearing that they would lose caste. Even clerks dare not, because they might be discharged. And so I thought I would do it myself.

There are many millions of people who believe the Bible to be the inspired word of God -- millions who think that this book is staff and guide, counselor and consoler; that it fills the present with peace and the future with hope -- millions who believe that it is the fountain of law, Justice and mercy, and that to its wise and benign teachings the world is indebted for its liberty, wealth and civilization -- millions who imagine that this book is a revelation from the wisdom and love of God to the brain and heart of man -- millions who regard this book as a torch that conquers the darkness of death, and pours its radiance on another world -- a world without a tear.

They forget its ignorance and savagery, its hatred of liberty, its religious persecution; they remember heaven, but they forget the dungeon of eternal pain. They forget that it imprisons the brain and corrupts the heart. They forget that it is the enemy of intellectual freedom. Liberty is my religion. Liberty of hand and brain -- of thought and labor, liberty is a word hated by kings -- loathed by popes. It is a word that shatters thrones and altars -- that leaves the crowned without subjects, and the outstretched hand of superstition without alms. Liberty is the blossom and fruit of justice -- the perfume of mercy. Liberty is the seed and soil, the air and light, the dew and rain of progress, love and joy.

I

THE ORIGIN OF THE BIBLE.

A few wandering families -- poor, wretched, without education, art or power; descendants of those who had been enslaved for four hundred years; ignorant as the inhabitants of Central Africa, had just escaped from their masters to the desert of Sinai. Their leader was Moses, a man who had been raised in the family of Pharaoh and had been taught the law and mythology of Egypt. For the purpose of controlling his followers he pretended that he was instructed and assisted by Jehovah, the God of these wanderers.

Everything that happened was attributed to the interference of this God. Moses declared that he met this God face to face; that on Sinai's top from the hands of this God he had received the tables of stone on which, by the finger of this God, the Ten Commandments had been written, and that, in addition to this, Jehovah had made known the sacrifices and ceremonies that were pleasing to him and the laws by which the people should be governed.

In this way the Jewish religion and the Mosaic Code were established.

It is now claimed that this religion and these laws were and are revealed and established for all mankind.

At that time these wanderers had no commerce with other nations, they had no written language, they could neither read nor write. They had no means by which they could make this revelation known to other nations, and so it remained buried in the jargon of a few ignorant, impoverished and unknown tribes for more than two thousand year's.

Many centuries after Moses, the leader, was dead many centuries after all his followers had passed away -- the Pentateuch was written, the work of many writers, and to give it force and authority it was claimed that Moses was the author.

We now know that the Pentateuch was not written by Moses.

Towns are mentioned that were not in existence when Moses lived.

Money, not coined until centuries after his death, is mentioned.

So, many of the laws were not applicable to wanderers on the desert -- laws about agriculture, about the sacrifice of oxen, sheep and doves, about the weaving of cloth, about ornaments of gold and silver, about the cultivation of land, about harvest, about the threshing of grain, about houses and temples, about cities of refuge, and about many other subjects of no possible application to a few starving wanderers over the sands and rocks.

It is now not only admitted by intelligent and honest theologians that Moses was not the author of the Pentateuch, but they all admit that no one knows who the authors were, or who wrote any one of these books, or a chapter or a line. We know that the books were not written in the same generation; that they were not all written by one person; that they are filled with mistakes and contradictions. It is also admitted that Joshua did not write the book that bears his name, because it refers to events that did not happen until long after his death.

No one knows, or pretends to know, the author of Judges; all we know is that it was written centuries after all the judges had ceased to exist. No one knows the author of Ruth, nor of First and Second Samuel; all we know is that Samuel did not write the books that bear his name. In the 25th chapter of First Samuel is an account of the raising of Samuel by the Witch of Endor.

No one knows the author of First and Second Kings or First and Second Chronicles; all we know is that these books are of no value.

We know that the Psalms were not written by David. In the Psalms the Captivity is spoken of, and that did not happen until about five hundred years after David slept with his fathers.

We know that Solomon did not write the Proverbs or the Song; that Isaiah was not the author of the book that bears his name; that no one knows the author of Job, Ecclesiastes, or Esther, or of any book in the Old Testament, with the exception of Ezra.

We know that God is not mentioned or in any way referred to in the book of Esther. We know, too, that the book is cruel, absurd and impossible.

God is not mentioned in the Song of Solomon, the best book in the Old Testament.

And we know that Ecclesiastes was written by an unbeliever.

We know, too, that the Jews themselves had not decided as to what books were inspired -- were authentic -- until the second century after Christ.

We know that the idea of inspiration was of slow growth, and that the inspiration was determined by those who had certain ends to accomplish.

II

IS THE OLD TESTAMENT INSPIRED?

If it is, it should be a book that no man -- no number of men -- could produce.

It should contain the perfection of philosophy.

It should perfectly accord with every fact in nature.

There should be no mistakes in astronomy, geology, or as to any subject or science.

Its morality should be the highest, the purest.

Its laws and regulations for the control of conduct should be just, wise, perfect, and perfectly adapted to the accomplishment of the ends desired.

It should contain nothing calculated to make man cruel, revengeful, vindictive or infamous.

It should be filled with intelligence, justice, purity, honesty, mercy and the spirit of liberty.

It should be opposed to strife and war, to slavery and lust, to ignorance, credulity and superstition.

It should develop the brain and civilize the heart.

It should satisfy the heart and brain of the best and wisest.

It should be true.

Does the Old Testament satisfy this standard?

Is there anything in the Old Testament -- in history, in theory, in law, in government, in morality, in science -- above and beyond the ideas, the beliefs, the customs and prejudices of its authors and the people among whom they lived?

Is there one ray of light from any supernatural source?

The ancient Hebrews believed that this earth was the center of the universe, and that the sun, moon and stars were specks in the sky.

With this the Bible agrees.

They thought the earth was flat, with four corners; that the sky, the firmament, was solid -- the floor of Jehovah's house.

The Bible teaches the same.

They imagined that the sun journeyed about the earth, and that by stopping the sun the day could be lengthened.

The Bible agrees with this.

They believed that Adam and Eve were the first man and woman; that they had been created but a few years before, and that they, the Hebrews, were their direct descendants.

This the Bible teaches.

If anything is, or can be, certain, the writers of the Bible were mistaken about creation, astronomy, geology; about the causes of phenomena, the origin of evil and the cause of death.

Now, it must be admitted that if an infinite Being is the author of the Bible, he knew all sciences, all facts, and could not have made a mistake.

If, then, there are mistakes, misconceptions, false theories, ignorant myths and blunders in the Bible, it must have been written by finite beings; that is to say, by ignorant and mistaken men.

Nothing can be clearer than this.

For centuries the church insisted that the Bible was absolutely true; that it contained no mistakes; that the story of creation was true; that its astronomy and geology were in accord with the facts; that the scientists who differed with the Old Testament were infidels and atheists.

Now this has changed. The educated Christians admit that the writers of the Bible were not inspired as to any science. They now say that God, or Jehovah, did not inspire the writers of his book for the purpose of instructing the world about astronomy, geology, or any science. They now admit that the inspired men who wrote the Old Testament knew nothing about any science, and that they wrote about the earth and stars, the sun and moon, in accordance with the general ignorance of the time.

It required many centuries to force the theologians to this admission. Reluctantly, full of malice and hatred, the priests retired from the field, leaving the victory with science.

They took another position;

They declared that the authors, or rather the writers, of the Bible were inspired in spiritual and moral things; that Jehovah wanted to make known to his children his will and his infinite love for his children; that Jehovah, seeing his people wicked, ignorant and depraved, wished to make them merciful and just, wise and spiritual, and that the Bible is inspired in its laws, in the religion it teaches and in its ideas of government.

This is the issue now. Is the Bible any nearer right in its ideas of justice, of mercy, of morality or of religion than in its conception of the sciences? Is it moral?

It upholds slavery -- it sanctions polygamy.

Could a devil have done worse?

Is it merciful?

In war it raised the black flag; it commanded the destruction, the massacre, of all -- of the old, infirm. and helpless -- of wives and babes.

Were its laws inspired?

Hundreds of offenses were punished with death. To pick up sticks on Sunday, to murder your father on Monday, were equal crimes. There is in the literature of the world no bloodier code. The law of revenge -- of retaliation -- was the law of Jehovah. An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, a limb for a limb.

This is savagery -- not philosophy.
Is it just and reasonable?

The Bible is opposed to religious toleration -- to religious liberty. Whoever differed with the majority was stoned to death. Investigation was a crime. Husbands were ordered to denounce and to assist in killing their unbelieving wives.

It is the enemy of Art. "Thou shalt make no graven image." This was the death of Art.  

Palestine never produced a painter or a sculptor.

Is the Bible civilized?

It upholds lying, larceny, robbery, murder, the selling of diseased meat to strangers, and even the sacrifice of human beings to Jehovah.
Is it philosophical?

It teaches that the sins of a people can be transferred to an animal -- to a goat. It makes maternity an offence for which a sin offering had to be made.

It was wicked to give birth to a boy, and twice as wicked to give birth to a girl.

To make hair-oil like that used by the priests was an offence punishable with death.

The blood of a bird killed over running water was regarded as medicine.

Would a civilized God daub his altars with the blood of oxen, lambs and doves? Would he make all his priests butchers? Would he delight in the smell of burning flesh?

III

THE TEN COMMANDMENTS.

Some Christian lawyers -- some eminent and stupid judges -- have said and still say, that the Ten Commandments are the foundation of all law.

Nothing could be more absurd. Long before these commandments were given there were codes of laws in India and Egypt -- laws against murder, perjury, larceny, adultery and fraud. Such laws are as old as human society; as old as the love of life; as old as industry; as the idea of prosperity; as old as human love.

All of the Ten Commandments that are good were old; all that were new art foolish. If Jehovah had been civilized he would have left out the commandment about keeping the Sabbath, and in its place would have said: "Thou shalt not enslave thy fellow-men." He would have omitted the one about swearing, and said: "The man shall have but one wife, and the woman but one husband." He would have left out the one about graven images, and in its stead would have said: "Thou shalt not wage wars of extermination, and thou shalt not unsheathe the sword except in self-defence."

If Jehovah had been civilized, how much grander the Ten Commandments would have been.

All that we call progress -- the enfranchisement of man, of labor, the substitution of imprisonment for death, of fine for imprisonment, the destruction of polygamy, the establishing of free speech, of the rights of conscience; in short, all that has tended to the development and civilization of man; all the results of investigation, observation, experience and free thought; all that man has accomplished for the benefit of man since the close of the Dark Ages -- has been done in spite of the Old Testament.

Let me further illustrate the morality, the mercy, the philosophy and goodness of the Old Testament:

THE STORY OF ACHAN

Joshua took the City of Jericho. Before the fall of the city he declared that all the spoil taken should be given to the Lord.

In spite of this order Achan secreted a garment, some silver and gold.

Afterward Joshua tried to take the city of Ai. He failed and many of his soldiers were slain. Joshua sought for the cause of his defeat and he found that Achan had secreted a garment, two hundred shekels of silver and a wedge of gold. To this Achan confessed.

And thereupon Joshua took Achan, his sons and his daughters, his oxen and his sheep -- stoned them all to death and burned their bodies.

There is nothing to show that the sons and daughters had committed any crime. Certainly, the oxen and sheep should not have been stoned to death for the crime of their owner. This was the justice, the mercy, of Jehovah!

After Joshua had committed this crime, with the help of Jehovah he captured the city of Ai.


http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/robert_ingersoll/about_the_holy_bible.html

I dont do Yahweh, Allah, Jehovah,El,  I only subscribe to Olodumare

Their ark landed around the Southern Cush (Modern Ethiopia).

Are you serious? what happened to Mount Ararat?

no no no no
it should be the one you are claiming to be God. there are a lot of version of God e.g. Allah, Olodumare Yahweh, Jehovah, Chi, Mawu, El etc

why not? it is cool with Yahweh