₦airaland Forum

ypeace:
You said you haven't study on Muhammad's plight in mecca before he flees. You only study the end and concluded. Try and study all so that you don't misjudge out of context of the matter.

If you study the Qur’an well, you will know that if you are wronged by another human, the best option is to forgive and forget.

Jesus was not a leader of a country, terror does not come in form of slapping alone. People muhammad (saw) lead are in danger of being prosecuted because of what they believe. The reason why I am using the boko haram issue is simply because we both have roughly the same amount of knowledge about it. So we both agree it's a problem we are battling with. Since you belief don't support using military means to defend yourself, what is the solution your belief posses to this kind of situation?

My friend you said, "Jesus was not a leader of a country, terror does not come in form of slapping alone"

I agree Jesus is not a leader of a country, he is the Son of God, one with the father, King of kings, seated at the right hand of the father and who ascended into heaven. My way to salvation and Even you Qu'ran admits his greatest and perfection. Why don't you listen to his message and not Mohammed's mostly opposite message, who is buried in mecca and who allegedly died by the poison of a Jewish woman. Why do you fight when Jesus says love, why do you stone and chop off hands when Jesus says forgive

Why do you kiss the black stone and stretch forth your hands to it for NO reason if not paganism under the guise of saying its related to Abraham.

Do you know that all Mohammed's male children from his combined 11 or so wives all died in infancy, why would that have happened to such a "prophet". Why wasn't such a great "prophet" given a male heir even though he lived to his 60s.

Think my friend.

ypeace:
Ifeann

Slavery in Islam is a way to treat prisoners of war. If an Arab does something, it does not necessarily mean islam support it. Muslims don't keep people in prison neither do they leave their opponents in war who are weak to die there. They share these people among themselves to cater for. These people do not posses the same right in that they can't inherit their owner's property etc. What if they commit a crime, they are not subjected to the same punishment under islamic law.

They were referred to as slaves not because they got captured for the purpose the westerners and some Arab have in mind but because they don't have equal right as normal citizens.

Muslims are slaves to Allah not because they were treated as Western slaves to western masters but because they submit totally to the will of God. I think when we address an issue let's address it as a whole.

You are actually trying to defend a sick thing such as slavery. Oh I see, u say they were prisoners of war what about the verse I quoted about breeding them and having sex with them if the owner chooses. This is sick.

Why would I chose a religion than endorses slavery over one that discourages it.

And your Qu'ran tells you, you are slaves of allah that's why the jihadists see themselves as slaves that need to blow themselves up, because they have a slave mentality.
Why would I chose a religion that their god calls his followers slaves over one that says we are the children of God, that he, God is an all loving father that will meet our needs if we call on him.

ypeace:
Ifeann

We don't study the Qur’an and hadith neglecting the Situation or what causes the situation in Islam.

Eg if one person has killed another. The situation is killing has occurred. What happened prior to killing is very very important in knowing the stance of Islam on the situation.

Half knowledge can lead astray. Muhammad though you don't believe in him warned against it ie do only what is clear to you and avoid as much as possible what is not clear. To the best of my knowledge verses of the Qur'an and hadith about war is what you know, you don't know how they were applied in Islam.

I still hope I have not digressed from the topic which is killing. OK you don't accept that Muhammad's situation is the same as part of boko haram even though you have not studied all about it. OK for the sake of argument and for the sake of gaining something new from you let's look at this scenario

Nigeria is a christain country, muslims are attacking Nigeria from another country and they are hell bent on wiping the country out because of your belief in Christ. In the boundary of your belief, suggest the solution to your country leader.

You keep bringing if you were slapped on one side of the cheek turn the other side. Now apply this to this scenario if you believe it appears to all form of terror and if you believe it doesn't apply to all form of terror I will like you to state other standard to which you probably judge islam which I don't know about.

Again I asked this question because to me, with some backing from the quran I will suggest to the leader that we should repel this terrorist from other countries using military. But because you have a higher standard to which you say this is barbaric, tell state your own standard by which you will solve the problem.



God knows best and may he guide us right

I am getting tired and bored of this your line of questioning.
Nigeria is not a christain country and it is not a Muslim country(thank God).
Muslims would not be attacking me if Mohammed didn't tell them to kill the infidels or kufars

I don't agree with wars and killings, why can't we all live in peace without fear of jihad.

Most of the wars in the last 200 years has been because of atheism, secular and islamic governments.

I know u find it difficult to believe I am against wars and killing because you are NOT used to peaceful solutions as a result of all the fighting from your Quran, I am tired of this line of questioning.

Please let us address why Islam and your prophet endorses, supports and encourages slavery or child marriage or paedophilia or sex with captives or beheadings or stonings or revenge missions or assassination of his critics or the abrogations of revelations or polygamy(legalised adultery) or temporary marriage (legalised prostitution still practised by shites) or Al Taqiyya (use of deceit) or Incest (he slept with his adopted son's ex wife after he divorced her sine Mohammed lusted after her), or sex with captives(which he did often), or No adpotion in Islam or his fear of wall garkos (little lizards) or dogs (mans best friend) or sharing war booty or any other vice in the Qu'ran.


And if I must answer your question I say the best line of action is sign a peace treaty, encourage trade between both parties and encourage cultural integration.

asalimpo:
this is empty humanitarianism.
Sometimes human life has to b taken for d betterment of society in general.
A willful murderer shud b killed to pay d life/lives he has destroyed.
This is morally and spiritually right.
If there were no army in a country how would tht country b safe for its citizens?

That's your rightful opinion. I prefer the 5th commandment, "thou shall not kill". Some people argue it is actually thou shall not murder. Until am sure I will stick with "not kill"

ypeace:
This is not the trend we were discussing on. How did we land here. I am not a she. I am a male.
How did you deduct I believe in the bible both old and NT? Please don't assume I belief something. Atleast ask.

Your qu'ran and prophet affirms the validity of the torah and injeel as I have proved by quoting 2 verse and their is another. Read your Book. If you choose to disagree with your Quran that's you cup of tea

Sorry I referred to you as a she. Pronouns can get tricky when u don't know the sex of someone u're chatting with.

ypeace:
There is a reason why I asked the question which I feel you are not interested in answering. What you resulted to is religion comparism. If I should engage you in that, we will keep jumping from one topic to another endlessly. Atleast if I clear the one I know about Islam, other muslims who have learnt about others and who are more knowledgeable will clear others. If you feel we should leave what we were discussing earlier then fine. I only speak about what I know something about and what I don't know anything about I try to learn about it. I am responsible for my source of knowledge and I have not chosen you because you assume you know much about my beliefs. But, what I have seen is that you don't.

If the discussion is about islamic banking, I would have told you I don't know much about it the way I told you I don't know much about slavery in Islam. But what I know for sure slavery in Islam is not slavery as you have presented it just like killing in Islam is not killing as you had presented it earlier.

Thanks for the hadith and Qur'an verses you have quoted I will take note of them when I learn about slavery in Islam.

Now, should we continue discussing about the one I have knowledge about. The one I don't have knowledge about, I can recommend sources to you if you care. Or do you want us to change to discuss Christianity ie you want to preach to me. Having a goal will shape our discussion. Peace.

You said ,"I am responsible for my source of knowledge and I have not chosen you because you assume you know much about my beliefs. But, what I have seen is that you don't. "
my brother or sister in humanity I don't knw anything about what you believe or your beliefs but I do know what your hadiths and qu'ran tells Muslims to believe, if you chose NOT to believe it that's your cup of tea. The passages do not mince words. The commands are reasonably clear and I bring them to you as honestly as I can.

You say "But what I know for sure slavery in Islam is not slavery as you have presented it just like killing in Islam is not killing as you had presented it earlier."

Can't you see the flaw in this statement. You are of African/black decent. Do you not know that the westerners and Arabs traded your race as slaves and the church spoke against slavery declaring it immortal. If we depended on Islam you would have been a slave today. And yet u tell me slavery in Islam is not as I describe. Are u serious ?? After I quoted so much verses on this including the hadith that approves breeding of slaves.

Why am I wasting this information on you. I just hope that all the truths I have put here touches the heart of at least one Muslim destined to be saved so they can leave the falsehood of Islam.

You said," Or do you want us to change to discuss Christianity ie you want to preach to me. Having a goal will shape our discussion. Peace."

No my Friend l don't even know how to preach, call on the God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob, call God to guide you to his truth. Tell him to give u a dream or coincidences. It works. However if you have questions I have told you what to do in a previous chat.
I am free to answer you.

ypeace:
You don't support killing of any form but you support our army.

Before the first war in Islam, Muslim were prosecuted, the reason why they can't retaliate is because as at that time, there is no single verse of the Qur'an supporting defending oneself militarily. They did not even run away from prosecution until God commanded them....... You may not believe that anyway. While at Medina, they lived with non muslims who didn't wage any war to them. But the meccans keep coming. In the light of this, God allowed them to defend, retaliate etc using military means. Some of which are the verses you quoted earlier. And even though we use military, we have guidelines eg, we must not destroy properties or fight those who we know can't harm us in battle. And what of when the opponent eg boko haram surrender, we agree on treaties and end the war.

In no situation did muhammad fought those whom he lived with peace with. Since we interpret the Qur’an in the boundary of what muhammed did, in no condition are we allowed to fight those we made treaties of peace with except they break it.

If killing in any form is bad. Then suggest a practicable solution to the Nigerian government when next they get the news that boko haram wants to attack a city.

Not to go far, there was a terrorist group eradicated during some of the past military rule in Nigeria. So in that light, give us eg of where your suggestions as a christain as worked in the past in eradicating terror.

The reason why I asked those questions the way I did is that, Atleast if defending oneself using the military as supported by islam is bad, that means your belief presents a better option which I will like you to state.


There are other reasons one can kill as stated in the Qur’an, we will discuss that after we finish with the issue of defense. Peace

Stop comparing Nigeria's army killing boko haram to Mohammed's fightings in mecca and caravan raids in Medina . They are not the same thing and besides its because of Mohammed that the nigerian army is killing young Muslims in the first place..

I will not say anything about Mohammed's issues in mecca that led to his flight to Medina because I am yet to study it in details. I like to be knowledgeable in a topic before I speak on it. I haven't studied the hadiths on the matter.

What I will do is compare Mohammed's course of action with what we can find about Christ in the bible;
You admit Mohammed defended himslef and commanded his people to fight ok here is what Christ did:

1. Christ said If you are slapped in one cheek turn over your other cheek.(my Christians find this one difficult to do)

2.When the soilders came to get Christ while he was with some of his disciples, to lead him to the Pharisees, herod and pontius pilate for judgement of blasphemy and to be crucified. Peter his discipline took out a knife and cut a soldiers ear , but Christ said no, he who lives by the sword dies by the sword. And he picked up and restored the soldiers ear.

Now this is beautiful. I wish to live like this and not revenge and slaughter and lay ambush and raid caravans as Mohammed chose to do. If you want verses I will give it to you...in bulk.

What's our next topic.

Mintayo:
Wow, what an interesting read,the Op copied some lies from an anti-christain site and post it here,then ran away, he cannot even stay to defend his post. you are an intelligent madam,and you are doing a very fine job, May God bless and honour you, Religion section needs more people like you at this times in Nairaland. there was a time when myself and some other guys do engage some muslims in their section before the nairaland tsunami and before the islam section becomes a sharia house. then, we try to show them the falsehood in islam and to educate them on the lies they have been told about christainity.
May God help us all.

Thank you for the comment. May God bless us all.
We must not give up on Muslims as Christ did not give up on us.
I have spent hours chatting with Muslims, my good friends are Muslims so I know how trapped they are and it is not their fault.
So don't give up on them, spread the Gospel boldly.

Have a nice weekend.

ypeace:
What I can derive from your statement is even if boko haram should continue to kill us, we should ......................... Please what solution does your believe prescribe to this?

Then, those judge who sentenced a boko haram to death and those army defending the life and properties of Nigerians are committing a sin by killing boko right?


Even though that is what I can infer from your statement, I would like you to confirm if my deductions are right.

I still don't understand what this has to do with our topic on Islam.
If Islam was not on earth you and I won't be discussing boko haram.

Yes I am against murder and won't commit it. I am against owning a gun or any thing that involves taking precious human life.

Notwithstanding, I support our army for putting their life at risk to protect the north from itself but would prefer if the solution is NOT murder as America has done with the Afghan and Pakistani Taliban, and the Israeli army with the Palestinians. Am I not clear enough. Murder and killing only begets more murder and killing. This is my stance on the issue. What more do you want from me my friend.

ooman:
Let him actually start from the beginning - Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy and let see if he won't see such.

I told @ypeace to start from the new testament so she can understand the true God's new covenant with believers by the sacrifices of our Lord Jesus . I can also direct ypeace to the old testament so she can see the prophecies about the coming of the messiah to affirm the new testaments validity.
Ypeace is a Muslim so she believes the old testament or torah is the inspired word of God, modern day Muslims actually have a problem with the injeel/new testament and not the torah, though their prophet had no issue with either one as I have presented to her from her book in our previous chat and I will present to her/him again;

1. It is He Who sent down to thee (step by step), in truth, the Book, confirming what went before it; and He sent down the Law (of Moses) and the Gospel (of Jesus) before this, as a guide to mankind, and He sent down the criterion (of judgment between right and wrong) (Surah 3:3).
2. If thou wert in doubt as to what We have revealed unto thee, then ask those who have been reading the Book from before thee: the Truth hath indeed come to thee from thy Lord: so be in no wise of those in doubt. And be not thou of those who deny the revelations of Allah, for then wert thou of the losers (Surah 10:94-95; 16:43)

I still don't know why atheists such as yourself and Muslims keep attacking Christianity.

GOd is the greatest and all powerful, all merciful and all loving. His people can never be subdued no matter the prosecution from atheists and jizyah tax payments to Muslims. Truth will prevail and conquer darkness no matter the cunning and deceit of falsehood

ypeace:
If I am correct I asked a question because I feel your stance on killing is, not matter what, killing is bad. You stated that my question is based on assumptions, OK now I will rephrase it, as a christain, do you support Nigeria army killing boko haram? As a muslim, I support Nigeria army killing boko haram as a muslim though I don't support some of the non constitutional and non islamic way they use sometimes. So I will like to know your stance on killing relating to this.

I don't know what this has to do with our discussion on Islam but I shall answer anyway.

I don't agree with taking human life,
I am against any form of abortion unless the mothers life is in valid danger. I am against capital punishment. I don't believe in killing a murderer.

I will not join the army for any reason.
It hurts me when innocent Muslims and these young boko haram boys in the north are killed because it could all have been prevented if these young guys were not exposed to some of the qu'ran verses I have mentioned.
I hope I have answered your question.

What's your next one.

macof:
Again the dishonesty and why are u running away from my questions?

Your quotes are false, there's no single validation to it.

My links are backed up by every non-western sourced article u can find about Chairman Mao.

It's left for u to accept truth or lie to the shame of christianity.

At least u admit the catholic church has an evil history, one that needed cleansing made men like Hitler.

You say. "Your quotes are false, there's no single validation to it."

Prove it, prove I made up those references.

You say "My links are backed up by every non-western sourced article u can find about Chairman Mao."

That's my point. U back up your silly opinions with silly website articles. Ï have written an academic dissertation and if you were to write one and back it up with website articles, you will fail. Go to google books, or any .edu site and provide credible references.

You said, "At least u admit the catholic church has an evil history, one that needed cleansing made men like Hitler."
NO, I don't agree. I said its has not lived up to expectations. Even the catholic church knows this. Evil history as u put it is a grave exaggeration.

Finally, you agree hitler "cleansed the church" an euphemism for killing clergy. Congrats to you, u once again defeat your arguments.
You have no points my friend.

ypeace:
Ifeann

Do you notice how often SEX, WOMEN, SLAVE, CAPTIVE, FIGHT, SWORD, SLAY, PUNISH, REWARD, appears in your Qu'ran and hadiths.. Please think about it. Get a bible start from Mathew, mark, Luke and John (the new covenant we live under) and see if you see such.


Yea I noticed before you state it. You remember our discussion started from where I asked a question who is missing the point of the discussion. And there you quoted a whole lot of verses on killing. We are not through with that you quoted about slavery and then you moved to quoting from the Bible ............ Yea I agree, these are issues you have with islam. Don't you think we are supposed to finish with one before jumping to another?

What I meant is let's finish with an issue. We were discussing killing, if you feel there is nothing much to discuss on that, then slavery which I can give you sources if you care because I don't have enough islamic knowledge on that. Also if what you will like is questions and answers on Christianity then............. All I am after is let's have a focus. Not jumping from one topic to another. Peace

There are so many issues and they are related that's why I bring them up and compare with Christianity,

If u want use to stay on killing for now let's say on it then.

[quote author=ypeace post=29043042][/quote]I would love to explain about the deity of Jesus if you like you can PM(email) me questions or you can create a topic and Christians, myself included will explain it further because it is a whole topic on its own.

However, the focus here is on Islam since you are not convinced about its falsehood. So read what I have to say carefully;

You say,"In the Qur’an, we are asked to pray 5 times a day, the number of rakkah is not stated in the Qur’an but then almost all Muslims would pray 2 rakkah in subh. This is because we interpret the Qur’an in the boundary of what muhammed (saw) did."

You are very right about this statement. And to interpret the Qur’an in the boundary of what muhammed did you have to turn to the authentic hadiths, not any kind of hadith. Now, I will turn to 2 very important hadiths (Muslim and burhari) so as to enlighten you on slavery since you said,"About slaves, I don't know much about rules guiding slavery in Islam. So I can't speak much on that."

Bukhari (52:255)- The slave who accepts Islam and continues serving his Muslim master will receive a double reward in heaven.

Bukhari (41.598)- Slaves are property. They cannot be freed if an owner has outstanding debt, but can be used to pay off the debt.

Bukhari (62:137)- An account of women taken as slaves in battle by Muhammad's men after their husbands and fathers were killed. The woman were raped with Muhammad's approval.

Bukhari (34:432)- Another account of females taken captive and raped with Muhammad's approval. In this case it is evident that the Muslims intend on selling the women after raping them because they are concerned about devaluing their price by impregnating them. Muhammad is asked about coitus interruptus.

Bukhari (47.765)- A woman is rebuked by Muhammad for freeing a slave girl. The prophet tells her that she would have gotten a greater heavenly reward by giving her to a relative (as a slave).

Bukhari (34:351)- Muhammad sells a slave for money. He was thus a slave trader.

Bukhari (72:734)- Some contemporary Muslims in the West, where slavery is believed to be a horrible crime, are reluctant to believe that Muhammad owned slaves. This is just one of many places in the Hadith where a reference is made to a human being owned by Muhammad. In this case, the slave is of African descent.

Muslim 3901- Muhammad trades away two black slaves for one Muslim slave.

Muslim 4112- A man freed six slaves on the event of his death, but Muhammad reversed the emancipation and kept four in slavery to himself. He cast lots to determine which two to free.

Bukhari (47:743)- Muhammad's own pulpit - from which he preached Islam - was built with slave labor on his command.

Bukhari (59:637)-"The Prophet sent Ali to Khalid to bring the Khumus (of the booty) and I hated Ali, and Ali had taken a bath (after a sexual act with a slave-girl from the Khumus). I said to Khalid,'Don't you see this (i.e. Ali)?'When we reached the Prophet I mentioned that to him. He said,'O Buraida! Do you hate Ali?'I said,'Yes.'He said,'Do you hate him, for he deserves more than that from the Khumlus.'" Muhammad approved of his men having sex with slaves, as this episode involving his son-in-law, Ali, clearly proves. This hadith refutes the modern apologists who pretend that slaves were really"wives,"since Muhammad had forbidden Ali from marrying another woman as long as Fatima (his favorite daughter) was living.

Now you may not agree with the summary of the hadiths so I shall now present you the passages of you qu'ran

Qur'an (4:24)-"And all married women (are forbidden unto you) save those (captives) whom your right hands possess." Even sex with married slaves is permissible.

Qur'an (8:69)-"But (now) enjoy what ye took in war, lawful and good" A reference to war booty, of which slaves were a part

Qur'an (33:50)-"O Prophet! We have made lawful to thee thy wives to whom thou hast paid their dowers; and those (slaves) whom thy right hand possesses out of the prisoners of war whom Allah has assigned to thee"

Qur'an (23:5-6)-"..who abstain from sex, except with those joined to them in the marriage bond, or (the captives) whom their right hands possess..." This verse permits the slave-owner to have sex with his slaves.

See also Qur'an (70:29-30). The Quran is a small book, so if Allah used valuable space to repeat the same point four times, then sex slavery must be very important to him.

Qur'an (24:32)-"And marry those among you who are single and those who are fit among your male slaves and your female slaves..." Breeding slaves based on fitness.
Qur'an (2:178)-"O ye who believe! Retaliation is prescribed for you in the matter of the murdered; the freeman for the freeman, and the slave for the slave, and the female for the female." The message of this verse, which prescribes the rules of retaliation for murder, is that all humans arenotcreated equal. The human value of a slave is less than that of a free person (and a woman's worth is also distinguished from that of a man's)

NOW let's compare it with the BIBLE, the true inspired word of God.

Galatians 3:28p
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond(slave) nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

1 Corinthians 12:13:"For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond(slave) or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit."

Colossians 3:11:"Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond(slave) nor free: but Christ is all, and in all."

Do you notice how often SEX, WOMEN, SLAVE, CAPTIVE, FIGHT, SWORD, SLAY, PUNISH, REWARD, appears in your Qu'ran and hadiths.. Please think about it. Get a bible start from Mathew, mark, Luke and John (the new covenant we live under) and see if you see such.

macof:
I said he is the most celebrated man in modern history. this isn't my opinion, I couldn't care less about him...but for the Chinese, he remains an immortalised political and military idol
www.beckyances.net/2012/09/top-10-most-influential-people-in-china-times-2/
www.themost10.com/important-leaders-in-20th-century/
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/china/10537651/In-China-Chairman-Mao-still-bigger-than-Jesus.html

Most of the hatred against him, has been propagated from the jealous West.

Again I ask how did atheism cause this?



ur quotes have no validation. I have German friends who have discussed this with me. He was a damed catholic...no valid book would say Hitler was Atheist or non-catholic
Ur quotes are false



Yes, a catholic would do that, Hitler was one of such catholics, many priests also...I don't know wat they teach in catholic churches but by history we know the catholic church is the most evil and corrupt organization...why do u think it's imperial period is called the DARK AGES?

www.reformedapologeticsministries.com/2014/03/some-of-roman-catholicisms-worst.html?m=1
www.listverse.com/2011/06/08/top-10-shameful-moments-in-catholic-history/

Read the links and know just how disgusting the history of the catholic church is.
corruption of the worst, which Hitler helped set straight today...at least to a considerable degree
The catholic church needed cleansing, this Hitler did

Wow, u just want to stay ignorant. I provide you with book reference on hitler you provide me with some silly weblinks listing information based on peoples opinions. nonsense. Any child can get information of the web. There are websites claiming Santa clause is real, but is he. Maybe you believe that too conspiracy theorist.

You say you have Germany friends that have told you this and that, are u serious? Dude I schooled abroad I have tonnes of British friends, I can say the same nonsense you said but I won't. Anything they say its opinion until proven as fact.

I won't address other points you raised because I am tried of correcting you.

However, I will agree that the catholic church hasn't perfectly lived up to expectations in the past. I have always known this. Have you always lived up to high moral standards yourself. We are human and will always err. But I thank God he put the church back on the right path. let me quote what one of the sites said about the church before criticizing its past and I quote," This list is not a denunciation of Roman Catholicism, which dates back to Christ Himself. The Church today is a VERY HONORABLE institution. But there are a FEW moments in its history when it did not live up to its OWN HIGH MORAL STANDARDS. This list constitutes an honest, unflinching look at some black moments in Roman Catholic history.

With this friend, I rest my case.

ypeace:
To be sincere I am not uncomfortable. There is no way I think I can prove that. Yea you raised a whole lots of points. I can't address all for example the issue o slavery.

But try and let's stay on one for now which is killing. My belief is we can kill in Islam as stated in the Qur’an. Under what circumstances, I haven't discussed that yet because I notice that you are trying to mean any form of killing is prohibited. I can't discuss situation in which killing is allowed in Islam if you still hold the view that killing of any form and any book that contains that automatically becomes evil.

That is why I asked. Let's assume boko haram from outside your country is facing your country assuming you are the leader. Will you fight back? If no. Then is Nigeria guilty of fighting back? If no then the constitution of Nigeria automatically supports killing and therefore it's bad right?

You say, "Yea you raised a whole lots of points"
Yes I did, because Islam has a whole lot of issues that I present to you so that you and any sincere Muslim reading this will get the full picture and see the falsehood in Islam.

Again you admit that you can't address all for example the issue of slavery in Islam. My friend do you see the flaw in your statement. Here you admit Islam permits slavery yet Christianity condemns it. Slavery is a terrible practise that belongs in antiquity. ISIS have revived slavery because of Islam and are currently selling Kurdish, yadizi, and even sunni girls(young and old) in Syria and Iraq

Incase u suddenly develop amnesia and forget that Islam permits it. Let's compare verses from Islam and the bible;

Sahih Muslim 8:29: “IT IS PERMISSIBLE TO HAVE SEXUAL INTERCOURSE WITH A CAPTIVE WOMAN AFTER SHE IS PURIFIED (OF MENSES OR DELIVERY) IN CASE SHE HAS A HUSBAND, HER MARRIAGE IS ABROGATED AFTER SHE BECOMES CAPTIVE.”
Sahih Muslim 8:3432: “Abu Sa'id al-Khudri (may Allah be pleased with him) reported that at the Battle of Hunain Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) sent an army to Autas and encountered the enemy and fought with them. Having overcome them and taken them captives, the Companions of Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) seemed to refrain from having intercourse with captive women because of their husbands being polytheists. Then Allah, Most High, sent down regarding that:" And women already married, except those whom your right hands possess(as slaves) (verse 4:24)" (i.e., they were lawful for them when their 'Idda period came to an end).”

And then the bible

Galatians 3:28
New American Standard Bible
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

King James Bible
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

You asked, "Let's assume boko haram from outside your country is facing your country assuming you are the leader. Will you fight back? If no. Then is Nigeria guilty of fighting back? If no then the constitution of Nigeria automatically supports killing and therefore it's bad right?"

What does this question have to do with anything, I am not Nigeria's leader, the bokoharam you speak of are angry Muslims following passages in the Qu'ran and please ask me questions based on facts and not analogy or assumptions.
SoRry if I sound harsh but you keep avoiding the issues.

yazach:
Did you just hear Taqiyyah? please explain its meaning to us

Don't forget you are in the glass house

Lol. Here is a moslem once again presenting a classic example of a red herring.
Why didn't you make issues with every other point I raised and this very important point and I quote, "Since it is the torah your prophet believed was rite and probably got his materials from."

Most intelligent Muslims will instantly try to argue that point (and still fail miserably ) but since you lack the knowledge u chose to divert the conversation. Look my friend I have spent hundreds of hours studying these issues in Islam, I have listened to your brightest scholars, both alive and dead and I have seen several of them use Al Taqiyya especially ahmed deedat and shibry Ali, just as the Muslims in the religious section of nairala d.

ypeace:
As a Christian, leader of a country disturbed by boko haram, what will you do? And the way the government has taken up the challenge by fighting them. Are they guilty?

I feel comfortable when my beliefs are challenged. It gives me another perspective, make me ask questions and seek knowledge about what I may not have encountered on my own.

I see you don't have a problem with the issues I raised about Mohammed's conduct. Look you are far luckier than so many Muslims who don't have the opportunity to be given this information and be invited to the true way of life as commanded by the true God.

I don't understand your first question about the Government and Boko haram. But I will tell you this, if those boys had a christain upbringing they will be in school and NOT carrying out some of these commands in the Quran and hadiths;

Qur'an (9:29)-"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."

Sura 9:5. "When the sacred months are over slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them."

Bukhari 2:24: Allah's Apostle said: "I have been ordered (by Allah) to fight against the people until they testify that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that Muhammad is Allah's Apostle, and offer the prayers perfectly and give the obligatory charity, so if they perform a that, then they save their lives and property from me except for Islamic laws and then their reckoning (accounts) will be done by Allah."

You say you fell comfortable when your beliefs are challenged, I say you are not being honest. How can u be comfortable when I give you passages of
1. Stonings of female approved by your prophet therefore instantly sending them to hell after Christ has come to die for our sins and plead our case to God the father when we sin .

2. Contradictions in your qu'ran.

3. Information from your sources as it is recorded Aisha was married to your prophet at six and had sex with her at 9. This is paedophilia not to mention he had several other wives and sex slaves at this point. Christ who died in his 30s never knew a woman talkless of a child 600 years before the arrival of Mohammed

4. That your prophet says all you will do is drink wine, have servants and have sex for eternity with virgins. God is the only one who is to be served in heaven. If wine is bad here it should be bad in paradise and I don't understand why people should be having sex(such an earthly pleasure) in the presence of your god and not worshipping him.
See some passages;

“Serving [the believers] will be immortal youths with jeweled and crystal cups filled with the purest wine which will neither give them headache nor hangover, with fruits and meats of their desire. They will be fair ones with lovely intense eyes like guarded pearls; A reward for the good deeds of their past life.”(56:17-24)

“We have created mates for them and made them virgins, matched in age, for the companions of the right hand.”(56:35-38)

“They will be chaste, restraining their eyes in modesty, never touched by man or Jinn.”(55:56)

“Serving them will be immortal servants. When you see them, they will look like scattered pearls.”(76:19)

5. That your prophet once said 'Allah's three daughters' – al-Lat, al-Uzza, and Manat, each of which had a shrine near Mecca where to be worshipped.
"These are the exalted cranes Whose intercession is to be hoped for." (Surah 53:19-22)
In the time of Moses he would have been stoned to death as a false prophet because The True God can not allow the words of his prophet be compromised.

6. That the bible/injeel which your prophet affirms warns us that the anti Christ will deny Jesus is the Christ and the relationship between the father and the son.
Your Koran does not deny that Jesus is the Christ but it denies the relationship between father and son. Hence its an anti Christ.

If you don't feel uncomfortable with these point (and there are more I left out), then you lie my friend or just wants to remain ignorant of the true facts

macof:
Pls address this.
Mao remains the most celebrated man of modern history in all of east Asia due to his socialist policies...we can't of course leave out the horror of the millions lost but this same acts have made China what it is today
But how was this driven by atheism?
I want to know

Back to Hitler, pls I don't want to have to waste my data looking for links...jst spend a few hours reading about Hitler...he was a catholic till death

You have said 2 things that show me that you are either ignorant of the facts or you are being intentional dishonest.

You say Mao is the most celebrated man in the Asia where is your data to support this. I deal in facts and figures not personal opinions. He caused 70million deaths but to you it means nothing.

You say hitler was catholic till death but you won't provide credible references on this while myself on the other hand have provided validated quotes and books showing he was an idealistic atheist who hated Christianity.
Would a catholic kill people for no reason. NO, Its against their doctrine
Would a catholic promote Germanic pagan worship. NO, Its against their doctrine
Would a catholic commit inc.est. NO, Its against their doctrine
Would a catholic promote hate. NO, Its against their doctrine
Would a catholic commit suicide. NO, Its against their doctrine
But hitler did all these things and more.
You obviously want to deliberately remain blind to the truth.
Stay in your folly if you wish.

gatiano:
tell me or show me where i lied or made a mistake that i may correct myself and make amends.

when or/and when i make a statement, it is yours as a duty to disappove it with proves, i do not make statements or say without a proof bound in mathematics, sciences or as reported through a reliable source.

my doctrines? no they are not doctrines and are not a mixture of anything but the truth based on facts. I'm proud to be of the Nation of Islam.

Your 4th point is a get away from answering my questions, and when i do make statement unrelated to topics at hand, i only intend to explain a little better. and those that are will to learn and are not willing to cause mischief will pick what they want or simply won't just believe.

How can i believe in nothingness, in winds and a so called spirit(which means air). ALLAH/GOD CAN BE NONE OTHER THAN A MAN. And without a doubt, we know from whence all nations and blood come from (BLACKMAN), And of all the blackmen on earth and everybody else, ALLAH in person of A BLACKMAN IS THE SUPREME. (mathematics).

All that i have said may be to most or all as though that i'm deluded. mine is to make it clear as possible as i can, it is left to people to take or leave it.

My questions still stand since you know so much about Islam and christianity.
What is the religion of Abraham, of Moses, of David, of Jesus and of Muhammad? you never can tell how much i have or will learn from you.

You just confirmed every reason why I chose not to engage you in a chat.
So you believe in the mothership MR. Proud NOI member.

My advice to you is to call on the God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob and by the Grace of our lord Jesus Christ, by his sacrifice on the Cross you will turn to the truth before it is too late.

talibilm:
Anyone who dreams or prophesizes anything that is against God, or anyone who tries to turn you from God, is to be put to death. (Deuteronomy 13:5)

If anyone, even your own family suggests worshipping another God,[b] kill them. (Deuteronomy 13:6-10)

If you find out a city worships a different god, destroy the city and kill all of it's inhabitants... even the animals. (Deuteronomy 13:12-15) LOL

Kill anyone with a different religion. (Deuteronomy 17:2-7)."

Once again a Muslim quotes a text out of context. I don't know if its ignorance, lack of intellect or Taqiyya.
You quote ancient passages that was recorded when God was setting up and giving Laws to his people the Jews over several thousands of years ago, before the coming of Christ who came and created our new and improved relationship with his father (600 years afterwhich Mohammed came to preach stonings, beheading, rape of married captives your right hand possessed, child marriage etc ), the same God you are told to believe handed the qu'ran to your prophet. The same prophet that affirms the massages in the torah and injeel as I will prove below with 2 verses;

1. It is He Who sent down to thee (step by step), in truth, the Book, confirming what went before it; and He sent down the Law (of Moses) and the Gospel (of Jesus) before this, as a guide to mankind, and He sent down the criterion (of judgment between right and wrong) (Surah 3:3).
2. If thou wert in doubt as to what We have revealed unto thee, then ask those who have been reading the Book from before thee: the Truth hath indeed come to thee from thy Lord: so be in no wise of those in doubt. And be not thou of those who deny the revelations of Allah, for then wert thou of the losers (Surah 10:94-95; 16:43)

Even if you don't agree with Christians you have no right to question the bible, especially the old testament. Since it is the torah your prophet believed was rite and probably got his materials from.

gatiano:
2:256 There is no compulsion in religion — the right way is indeed clearly distinct from error. So whoever disbelieves in the devil and believes in Allah, he indeed lays hold on the firmest handle which shall never break. And Allah is Hearing, Knowing. (Holy Quran).

You are yet to answer my questions, You seem to want to cause confusion and mischief. You know nothing of Islam and not just that, of christianity too as well.

Your only claims is to lift from what GOD did not reveal and what Muhammad did not say or write.

Hello getiano,
I mean no offence but here are several reasons why I don't want to engage you in a chat;
1. You tell lies
2. You are a conspiracy theorist
3. Your Islamic views are a mixture of the doctrines of the nation of Islam mixed with some ideology from the christain word of faith movement.
4. You throw in several red herring and ramble about many unrelated topics all at once.
5. You know few things about Islam and almost nothing about true Christianity. I mean, for sanity sake u think that the black man is allah.

[quote author=yazach post=29026155][/quote]yazach I am still waiting for your reply as to how qu'ran 2:256 does Not contradict with all the other passages I presented.

You asked, "have you read a verse of the Qura'an where it is directly and categorically stated that their is no compulsion in Islam
If your answer is yes, give us the verse " and I gave it.

Apparently you thought I didn't know the verse because I didn't quote the passage.. Now I quote and you are shocked and you now claim that since the passage is there then your prophet did not compel people to his religion, the I quote some contradicting qu'ran passages and numerous authentic hadiths showing how your prophet disobeyed the command and presented more "revealed" commands asking him to contradict the earlier one and you run away.