₦airaland Forum

yazach:
But I don't know why you would quote those verses and assume them to mean compulsion in Islam when you know that "Allah did not in anyway allowed his Prophet to force people to embrace Islam: Their is no compulsion in Islam"

Are you serious, are you even a Muslim ?? Have you read your qu'ran in 21st century English and not just reciting it in 7th century classical Arabic.
So what am I to do with these contradicting commands to Mohammed from his god.

Qur'an (9:5)"But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity, then open the way for them..." Prayer and charity are among the Five Pillars of Islam, assalat and zakat

Quran 2:193. "And fight with them until there is no persecution, and religion should be only for Allah, but if they desist, then there should be no hostility except against the oppressors."

Quran 8:39. "And fight with them until there is no more persecution and religion should be only for Allah; but if they desist, then surely Allah sees what they do."

Qur'an (9:29)-"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."


Sura 9:5. "When the sacred months are over slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them."

Bukhari 2:24: Allah's Apostle said: "I have been ordered (by Allah) to fight against the people until they testify that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that Muhammad is Allah's Apostle, and offer the prayers perfectly and give the obligatory charity, so if they perform a that, then they save their lives and property from me except for Islamic laws and then their reckoning (accounts) will be done by Allah."

Sahih Muslim (1:33)The Messenger of Allah said:"I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify that there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah, and they establish prayer and pay zakat."

Sahih Muslim (19:4294)-"When you meet your enemies who are polytheists(which includes Christians), invite them to three courses of action. If they respond to any one of these, you also accept it and withhold yourself from doing them any harm. Invite them to (accept) Islam; if they respond to you, accept it from them and desist from fighting against them ... If they refuse to accept Islam, demand from them the Jizya. If they agree to pay, accept it from them and hold off your hands. If they refuse to pay the tax, seek Allah's help and fight them"

Bukhari (53:392)-"While we were in the Mosque, the Prophet came out and said,"Let us go to the Jews"We went out till we reached Bait-ul-Midras. He said to them,"If you embrace Islam, you will be safe. You should know that the earth belongs to Allah and His Apostle, and I want to expel you from this land. So, if anyone amongst you owns some property, he is permitted to sell it, otherwise you should know that the Earth belongs to Allah and His Apostle."

Bukhari (60:80)-"The Verse:--'You (true Muslims) are the best of peoples ever raised up for mankind.'means, the best of peoples for the people, as you bring them with chains on their necks till they embrace Islam."

yazach:
I will like to engage you but on the following conditions

1- Don't try to change any point we agree to discuss
2- Don't abuse those I hold in high esteem
3- Our responds should not be more than 10 lines(because voluminous responds is a way of derailment)
4- Be honest and diciest from lies
5- You can add your own rule
6- If you are not ok with those rules, please don't bother your self

Now let us take it one after the other and sort out the facts



If you use these verses to conclude that their is compulsion in Islam, have you read a verse of the Qura'an where it is directly and categorically stated that their is no compulsion in Islam

If your answer is yes, give us the verse and justify it with those ones you are quoting then give us your conclusion

If your answer is no, then I don't think you have an atom of knowledge regarding the book but you read Islamophobia sites

Hello,
Salam alaykum,

I respect all people, I don't lie, I don't practise Al Taqiyya. I am not asking these questions for argument sake. We learn everyday so if I misquote then point it out and I shall investigate its validity.
My only concern or exception is to rule 3. I often quote verses from the Qu'ran to make my point and are often long.

My only request/ rule is that you do not lie, deceive or use Al Taqiyya when you make your points.

In addition, I visit qu'ran.com for verses and try not to depend on "Islamophobia sites" as you put it .

Here is the verse.
2:256
Sahih International
"There shall be no compulsion in [acceptance of] the religion. The right course has become clear from the wrong. So whoever disbelieves in Taghut and believes in Allah has grasped the most trustworthy handhold with no break in it. And Allah is Hearing and Knowing."

ypeace:
@chuose

Even if that is not the meaning, as long as there is beating up in the Qur’an, islam support it. Hmm, if Muslims were to go by your own Interpretation, sincerely I will agree with you that islam is a bad nigga. But fortunately for us, we don't derive our meaning from you.

The OP @MakeWeTalk (I hope he was honest when he says he is a Muslim because if he is a Christian then I must remind him that Christians are not allowed to lie or deceive as Muslims are allowed to by invoking Al Taqiyya.)

Ypeace you keep on defending Islam even though u have admitted to me in a previous chat that you are still a learner. The OP a Muslim who has become uncomfortable with the command to beat your wives has come out to ask,"why" why this verse and compares it to the christain bible which says love your wife. Yet you say it is misinterpretation.
In fact, the original Classical Arabic meaning is "scourge her" not "beat her" but one of your famous Islamic translators Ali translated it as "beat her" then adds "(lightly)" in bracket on his own accord because he was uncomfortable with the verse. Let me show you other verses in the Qu'ran and authentic haddiths about beating women and raping MARRIED female slaves;

Sahih Muslim 8:29: “IT IS PERMISSIBLE TO HAVE SEXUAL INTERCOURSE WITH A CAPTIVE WOMAN AFTER SHE IS PURIFIED (OF MENSES OR DELIVERY) IN CASE SHE HAS A HUSBAND, HER MARRIAGE IS ABROGATED AFTER SHE BECOMES CAPTIVE.”

Sahih Muslim 8:3432: “Abu Sa'id al-Khudri (may Allah be pleased with him) reported that at the Battle of Hunain Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) sent an army to Autas and encountered the enemy and fought with them. Having overcome them and taken them captives, the Companions of Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) seemed to refrain from having intercourse with captive women because of their husbands being polytheists. Then Allah, Most High, sent down regarding that:" And women already married, except those whom your right hands possess (verse 4:24)" (i.e., they were lawful for them when their 'Idda period came to an end).”

Quran 4:34:
" Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great."

Stop living in denial and face the truth of the falsehood of Islam.

gatiano:
What is the religion of Abraham?

I never met him, and I suspect if I give you an answer using the bible you would not accept. So you tell

malvisguy212:
GOD told adam not to eat from the tree of Good and evil and when they disobey God they face the punishment, am very sure adam and eve would have thought there children not to disobey God and teach them what is good and bad, so there conscience no what is good and evil.

In Darwin’s time there was an idea among the
nobility that their genetics were superior to those of
the rest of society. Many families including Darwin’s
took this belief to extreme levels by practicing incest
as a tradition.
They thought that if adolescents were to marry within
their own family then not only would all the wealth
stay in the family, but the “good” genes would also.
This also ensured that the family fortunes would be
retained for many future generations. This practice is
very common in aristocratic families, which explains
why they are all extremely mentally unstable. Darwin
came from a very classist and racist elite level of
society and that is reflected in his work, especially
“The Descent of Man”.

Nice info. Didn't know this about Charles Darwin. Will investigate. This is why those who preach natural selection; evolutionists and atheism will lead the world to eugenics and mass destruction of undesirable humans in the future.

ypeace:
exposing muslims you say, interpreting islam from your own perspective i say.

Perspective…….. Before I proceed, I will first like to discuss this because I think it will aid my explanation.
Naturally, when we encounter information which is against our belief, we go into a defensive mode. And when the info is in support of our belief, we switch to attacking mode. The way we interpret info is based on prior belief, knowledge and experience. It determines what and what we give more importance to.

You naturally give preference to some ayats of the Quran over others. same thing I think those called extremist do. Truly, a muslim can kill, it is part of our constitution...... Quar'an. If you should killing, no matter the situation, is not allowed, then, even christians in the army defending their territory may get punished for it. Even the constitution of Nigeria supports killing as a form of punishment.

though you dont believe in Muhammad (saw), but to a muslim, he is the best interpreter of the Quran. We, muslims interprete the Quran the way the prophet has taught us and also because we gave preference to his teachings. in that sense, the quran verses you quoted earlier does not apply to situation where muslims are not being prosecuted by non muslims. And even when muslims are oppressed, and the oppressor has repented, then it will be better for a muslim to stay away from revenging. what of when non muslim are oppressing us, we have the right to defend or retaliate approppriately. I have tried not to quote the Quran because you dont believe in it. And i know you may not agree with my explanation because you dont agree with what I believed before making this deduction. In order to be able to convince ourselves, it will be important to tackle previous beliefs. God knows best. peace.

I don't feel comfortable when my beliefs are challenged, especially by atheists, so I know how you feel. However I do an investigation of their points and see if it has any validity.
You say I quote Islam from my own perspective. NO I don't, I quote the words of your quran and haddiths without any additions. You said you are still learning so please learn.
I have asked you to correct me if I quoted wrongly and you haven't.
You say I argue from my perspective or bias, of course I do and you do the same, we all have personal bias, only the truth can change those bias. But my aim not to agrue for argument sake.

You mentioned about killings in Islam, let's do a little comparism;
Christains are forbidden to kill, it is the 6th commandement. Jesus commanded us to turn the other cheek if we are slapped. We should forgive even if we are offended 70 x 7 times in a day by anybody. Jesus stopped the stoning of an adulteress and forgave her.
On the other hand Mohammed commanded Muslims to kill pAgans, apostates, fight the Jews and christains until they say the shahadda or pay the jizyah and they are told to stone adulteress and caught limbs and revenge trespasses.

Jesus, the most perfect person ever on earth gives us a good way of life (and even your Koran says that he was taken into heaven and shall come again while Mohammeds stays buried in mecca)
Another person comes and gives the people an opposite message., how do you want me and other Christians to accept that..

Read this message from the injeel;


Mat 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
Mat 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
Mat 24:6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
Mat 24:7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
Mat 24:8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
Mat 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
Mat 24:10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
Mat 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

ypeace:
when God told Adam and Eve not to eat the forbidden fruit, there was no confusion about the message. But how come they both ate it? for those who reflect and those who do not listen to the whisper of shaitan, the message of the Qur'an is clear.

I don't even understand what you are trying to suggest with regard to the points I raised.

My point is that isalm is false. Look ponder on this,

For 1400 years , that is 14 centuries, Islam has battled to dominate the world as it is commanded in your Quran. And for 1400 years it has failed. Your Islamic empires and caliphates came and disappeared into the histories.

Christians have been persecuted by Muslims as commanded in your book and has paided the jizyah for centuries yet Christians still out number moslems and surpass Islam in progress and contribution to humanity. The most power nation on earth was founded with christain principles and has led the world in progress with science, art etc.

Again after centuries of persecuting Jews they still managed to create a homeland in the very heart of Islamic nations. They fought a war in 1967 shortly after their creation in 1948, they were attacked by Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Egypt and Iraq who where supported by Algeria, Kuwait, Libya, Morocco, Pakistan, the PLO, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, tunisa and YET Israel WON in 6 days. CAN'T you see that the God of Israel saw his people victorious. 1.2 billion Muslims yet 20million Jews dominate you in politics, sciencific breakthrough, arts, economics, education, human rights, inventions, social system, military etc.. Why are they so bless even though your book condemns them and calls them pigs.

Ponder on this my friend.

ypeace:
Please who is missing the point me, AYINBA1 or both of us. About the op. You can't say for certain why the op has ignored the thrend. About what you wrote, I will have to go through the whole discussion about that from the first page before replying. Though I may keep quiet if others who are more knowledgeable reply you because I am still a learner. Peace be onto you

My reply was to ayinba1 , I mentioned you because you seek more understanding. I like the fact you admit you are still a learner, God is merciful and loving, he has directed your path to this forum so that you can learn from people who spend their free time exposing Muslims to the truths of Islam. And if ever I quote a verse wrongly it is not intentional.

Before you continue learning, call upon the God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob to bring you to the truth. Salam alaykum

lafflaff123:
Christianity is a little bit more complicated than what you think, as most Christians have different beliefs and how they worship in the Christendom, for example the Cele and most White Garment churches still believe in the Old Testament. They also believe in marrying more than one woman, and believe a woman on her menstrual cycle is not suppose to be inside the church as they consider it unclean.

But for Islam, its one Koran, one Belief, one behavior, same radicalization, same peaceful preaching until they get offended and honestly people keep referring to all Muslims as one, because there really is no proven yardstick for the differentiation between MUSLIM (A) and MUSLIM(B)

Even the Sunni's and Shiites read the same Koran.

So this is is the little help i want from you and AYINBA1 and that is, HOW DO WE KNOW WHICH MUSLIMS to trust? which one to be Comfortable with? which one would not classify us and infidels and want to slit our throats?why do i need to be forced to be a Muslim to even live in some society in the world?

So back to the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt. Other Islamic faithfuls in Egypt were so very uncomfortable with the brand of Islam they were preaching that they not only got thrown out of power, but also threw them in jail.

YPEACE and AYINBA1 why is the Koran, which is just one(not like the Christian old testament and new testament)open to such different interpretation? we are learning here, and i really await your replies.

You forget to ask them this. Why does the Koran say repeatedly that it is clear to understand, easy to comprehend. If ayinba and peace read their Koran they should have seen several passages that say so, However their is so much confusion with the interpretation of verses. So much moslems depend on their scholars, apologetics, imam, shiek etc for explanations That's why you have the Wahabi, Salafists, sunnis, shites, alwaites, ahmedies. Their disputes are so intense that they blow each other up for it.
Why do I knw that isalm's domination agenda will ultimately fail? Here is why, The bible let's us knw that a house divided amongst itself shall not stand and God is not the author of confusion.

@AYINBA1 u are missing the point of this discussion entirely. @YPEACE

The point of this discussion is NOT- did the qu'ran say Moses, Noah and co were Muslims? or did the qu'ran say that allah sent Mohammed .
I don't believe your Book, so don't quote its passages to make your point. Don't you get it. If you tell me Jesus was only scourged but not crucified (as your Muslim scholars teach) I don't go to the bible and say look ayinba the Bible verses says so. This is because you don't believe the Holy Bible. So I go to the writings of historians (books and online) about the historical Jesus and see arguments by atheists, christain and Muslim apologetics and make an informed decision and quote them while using commons sense.
The point I am trying to get across is that there is so much violence in your "holy" book, it has tons of contradictions and abrogations, questionable revelations that favour Mohammeds desires and it also goes against very important facts we know about a loving God the father which we know by comparing information from the Quran with true scriptures , the torah and injeel/BIble.
Read my first /second comment on this topic and see the questions I asked about almost all the "30 facts" of Islam.
The OP has remained slient because he can NOT dispute them and show evidence of any error to the ***objections .
You said their is no contradiction in the Koran and I asked you this, "The Qu'ran says -there is no compulsion of religion-, it also said- to you your religion and to me my religion...however the Qu'ran says fight those who do not believe in Allah (quran 9:29), strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be unyeilding to them (quran 9:73).
Quran 2:193. "And fight with them until there is no persecution, and religion should be only for Allah, but if they desist, then there should be no hostility except against the oppressors."
Quran 8:39. "And fight with them until there is no more persecution and religion should be only for Allah; but if they desist, then surely Allah sees what they do."
Bukhari 2:24: Allah's Apostle said: "I have been ordered (by Allah) to fight against the people until they testify that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that Muhammad is Allah's Apostle, and offer the prayers perfectly and give the obligatory charity, so if they perform a that, then they save their lives and property from me except for Islamic laws and then their reckoning (accounts) will be done by Allah."

Contradictions (initially everyone has the right to choose his own religion, Quran chapter 109, and in the end polytheists have to be killed in Quran 9.5),

Once again, the burden of proof is on you ayinba, are these verses in there or are you going to contradict the contradictions in your KorAn? Did I misquote or misinterpret..or do I just know more about your Koran even MORE than you the Muslim If I am right then why are you still a Muslim.

Call upon the true God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob to reveal the truth to you.

[quote author=ayinba1 post=28993799]@lafflaff

tartar9:
EWU!!

Wow, you see my comment on the falsehoods in Islam and instead of you to perform your Islam obligation of de'wah, you throw an insult. I don't think you know why you used an insult. Let me explain. It is the spirit of Islam within you. That spirit that turn quiet students training to be doctors in the uk into jihadists blowing themselves up in Syria. That spirit that makes you hate the Jew and thirst for their blood.
I did a little look into your past posts and I saw how childish you comments are, how much hate has held you. However, you are a brother in humanity and I chose to reply you to explain to you why you are filled with so much hate.

PastorKun:
Hmmmmn very interesting and insightful thread. I wonder why the OP decided to run away.

I have tried to get intouch with the OP to correct any errors in my comments and I have even reminded him of his obligation of da'wah. Yet he won't comment because he hasn't seen any Lie uttered. Truth say sets us free, and I pray he accepts the truth.

malvisguy212:
nobody associate partner with God because you can't divide a man from his word,they are ONE .

Abraham worship the true God and pass the covenant to isaac,and isaac unto jacob that how the it goes on until the promise is fulfilled in christ jesus. God sanction the sending away of ishmeal because His covenant was not with him (ishmeal) God only made him a great nation but the prophetic race was with isaac (quran 29:27) there is no way two sons can have the same blessing,example of this is the story of jacob and esau, isaac bless jacob although according to tradition the blessing suppose to go to esau because he was the senior but because the prophetic race pass on to jacob, God only bless esau with riches just like he bless ishmeal. So two sons cannot have the same blessing. According to muslims muhammad is from the descendant of ismeal so he cannot be a prophet from the true God.

That why the islamic creed say,lahila ah hilala hi muhammadu rasulilahi which mean I believe in allah and. Muhammad is his messenger. In other word muhammad is the only prophet in islam.

She will not agree with your statement because ever since she was a child she has been told different. She needs to ask herself why 75 percent of new Muslim converts leave Islam with the first 3 to 5years. is it because the more they study Islam they see it can't be true? Infact, I was passing a mosque/Islamic centre the other day and saw a sign that said' "teach your children, stop the mass exodus in Islam" People are leaving in droves. Google "son of hamas" and see how he exposes Islam, this is a guy who was a terrorist, son of a hamas founder and conservative Palestine Muslim.. Until Christ freed him from bondage.

She says their is no contradiction, here is one I knw. The Qu'ran says -there is no compulsion of religion-, it also said- to you your religion and to me my religion...however the same Qu'ran says fight those who do not believe in allah (quran 9:29), strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be unyeilding to them (quran 9:73). It also has a lot of terrible things to say about fighting Christians and Jews until they pay the jizyah.

Now the burden of proof is on you ayinba, are these verses in there or are you going to contradict the contradictions in your KorAn? If I am right then why are you still a moslem.
Call upon the true God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob to reveal the truth to you.

ayinba1:
@malvis and ifean, I understand your dilemma because you are bound to continue this way if you persist in following websites and sources that have a single goal of turning you away from the truth of Islam. I am only to invite you because it would be ridiculous for me to find information about Christianity from an atheist website. When you are ready, please get a copy of the Quran and find out About Islam from people like Yusuf Estes, Nouman Ali khan and mufti menk. It will broaden your horizon. I wish you well.
@lafflaff, please be patient with me, I do not know the verses off hand and do not wish to misquote anything but I saw your question, it's a good one

You are so polite which is nice, Good on you. However you fail to prove us wrong when we quote the questionable verses in your quran.
You sAy I and @malvisguy212 are learning about Islam from biased sources. I can't speak for malvis but I can tell you I KNOW about Yusuf etes the "ex Christian", and about Nahik Ahmed, shirby Ali, the famous Ahmed deedat etc. I don't read only these anti Islam websites, I watch videos by your Muslim scholars too. I see so much misinterpretations and lies that I get fed up with their use of Taqiyya..hope you know what Taqiyya is, it is the term used in your Koran for the approval to tell lies and deceive the unbelievers. Ahmed deedat was a very intelligent Muslim debater and scholar but do you know how he died. After mocking the Resurrection of Christ in a lecture, he was said to have declared," may God silence the deceivers" 4 weeks later he was hit with a stroke that life him unable to speak or move any part of his body other than his head for 9 (NINE) years. The only video I have seen of him after he was silenced was him crying on his bed. Go to youtube and see for yourself.

lafflaff123:
@Ayinla okay i am waiting. So we all talking about this religions, are immigrants to these religions because they both were imported into our African Culture. To me, Religion was introduced to cause divide between us. Once upon a time our fore fathers were traditional idol worshipers, and even though they were little skirmishes between villages.

What Christianity/Islam has caused, is to cause wars between nations. The Muslim/Christian divide will never go away, not in this life time or the next one, and herein lies my concern.

As a young man that attended one of the Federal Government Colleges in the North, and in all my years there i loved the way this Muslim guys lived their live's. Kindness was shown to all and the killings was unheard of. I remember when those days, you could stop at a strangers house in the North and pass the night if you stranded without the fear of being killed.

Now? i am so scared of Muslims, that even some Northerners that have names like Yakubu, who ordinarily are Christians still scare me as i keep thinking they are Muslims.

But how did we get here?

How did we Nigerians start using religion as a tool for destruction?

Another thing. The Muslims in Northern Nigeria and those in the Southern/Western part of Nigeria has always puzzled me, do they believe in the same Koran? if yes, why then are the Western Muslims more tolerant with others than those from the North?

Look at China, Religion is an offence there and so they are not killing each other over it.
Wish Islam/Christianity could just disappear so we all could live in peace, or some sort of societal balance.

Some errors with what you said.
You said something about peace in the past and u studied in the north. U are mistaken, Northern Muslims have always killed Christians especially Igbos and even northern Christians. Apparently you have not heard about the major Pogroms that led to the biafran war in the 1940s and 1950s when 40,000 Igbos were butchered in the north before the civil war that claimed another 1million lives. It seems nobody has mentioned to you that Nigeria had a version of bokoharam in the 1980s called mastiesene or some wierd name(I forget the spelling). They killed and slaughtered until they were finally sent to their 72virgins in paradise by the nigerian army.

You mentioned china and how religion is an offence there and that they are not killing each other. Don't you see the flaw in your statement.
The founder or father of modern day china was an atheist named Mao Zedong whose policies lead to the death of an estimated 70million people by forced labour, starvation and mass executions.
It appears you don't know that a society without religion is an atheist society and atheism is the official "religion" in china but they have moslems who carryout massive knife attacks several times a year. Its appears you don't know they have millions of buddists and millions of protestant and catholic christains who cause NO troubles. Infact research by the respected pew research Center says that in 10years there will be more christains in china than in the America.
Don't you see the pattern of violence with Islam and not religion as a whole

IanDiamonds:
The threas is Misleading, just as the religion is misleading, just as the Koran is misleading, just as the author (Muhammad) is misleadin, just as the followers are mislead.

The layman is probably confused; shall we break it down for him? Definitely

Islam: A religion where a dead paedophile, Jihadist leads a bunch of brainless humand (Zombies) straight to hell.

Now the layman understands.

Please don't insult moslems, many of them are good people like I suspect @ayinba1 is.
The problem is Islam. If you were born into Islam and brainwashed to recite the Koran from age 3 to adulthood you would be in the same situation.

If you have a problem with Islam, then learn about it and make effort to expose the issues to Muslims.

malvisguy212:
the scripture make it clear that no one know the day or the hour of christ return.but the bible dos say that we can know the time and season surrounding his comin,you may be thinkin the usual sayin like... So because disease and immorality are running rampant and because there are wars and rumors of war and we have had some few earthquake that jesus is comin soon ? Yeah we'dav heard all that before. But after studying the bible I discover somtin interesting about the end of days. Pleas read.


my theory about the end of days started when I read a verse in isaiah 46. It say that God declare the end from the beginning. A similar verse was in isaiah48. This lead me to the creation story in the book of genesis. As I study the first chapter, I began to wonder, WHY IT TOOK GOD SIX DAYS TO CREATE THIS WORLD AND REST ON THE SEVENTH DAY,WHY WOULD HE TAKE SIX DAYS WHEN HE COULD HAVE CREATED THE WORLD IN ONE SECOND, IN THE BLINK OF AN EYE?I started studying the word"day" and days" I discover some interesting passages that related to this. Maby God is indicating to us how much time man would have on earth.this is the point, the bible especially the old testament is full of foreshadowing. An event that actually happen in history, also picture somtin comin in the future. An example is the sacrifice of abraham and isaac, that even actually happen,and it was also a picture of what God will do to his son jesus on the cross as an offering for the sin of the world. Now why will God take SIX days to create the world? Is this a picture of somtin we need to know? I think it is. In 2peter 3:8, the context was refferin to the second comin of jesus christ,the bible say that a one day with they Lord is as a thousand years and a thousand year is like a day. Psalm 90. A thousand year in God sight is like yesterday.so could it be that the six days of creation were yo indicate to us the time man will spend on this earth would be about six thousand years?...the seventh day of rest picturing the thousand years millennia reign, when christ come back to set up is kingdom, the time of righteousness and peace.bible scholar have calculate from the first man adam to the first comin of christ to be 4000years,if that is the case then we are could have been living at the end of what the new testament called THE LAST DAYS.now this is the issue.God deal with time in the bible, when God measure time He dose so by seven.....
1.God created the world in seven days, with the seven day bein for REST.
2according to the old testament law,the jew were commanded to REST every SEVEN days.
3.the seventh week after the passover, they celebrated a big feast of REST.
4.the seventh month of were perhaps the most important when they celebrated three of there biggest feast of REST.
5.every seventh year was the year of REST for the land.
6.every 49years ,seven times seven, they celebrated the year of jubilee, which is a year of REST for the land and liberty for the people.so it made perfect sense to me that God would set up a seven thousand year period for man to occupy the earth, with the last thousand year being a time of REST when jesus come back to set up his earthly kingdom, as spoken in revelation20.I was right when I say God deal with time he dos so by seven.the second coming of christ is the most important day in God's calendar , he want us yo know the timing .

Hose was a prophet in the old testament, in verse 6 of that book , hosea talk about isreal, God chosen nation, who was always rejecting God.the nation was goin to be torn apart, but verse two say" after two days will he revive us , the third day he will raise us up and the we shall live in his sight"what dos this mean? When jesus come isreal reject him as there messiah , so God scatter the nation of isreal all over the world. For 1900 years there is no nation of isreal but God say after two days[ or 2000yrs] I will revive thee, and you, isreal will live in my sight: the scatter isreal became a nation in the year 1948.this is important because God is reviving the nation of isreal and they are about to live in his sight when jesus come back to set up his earthly kingdom , have you ever meet a cannanite ? How about the amorite? No because these are isreal enemies and God did not preserve them, the jew have been preserve because they are God chosen people and he must fulfill and keep his promise he made to them but the jew are still rejecting christ, for how long?after two days [or 2000years] I will revive thee and the third day you shall live in my sight.

The second coming event are about to begin, I see the same foreshadowing in exodus 19:11. God told isreal to clean up and wait for two days, the third day I'm comin down in the sight of they nation. In john 11. Lazarus died a jew, jesus waited for two days before he raise him from death, this is a picture of how God is about to turn his back from isreal for the next two thousand years [or two days] and start reach out for the rest of the world through the new testament church which he did. God dint just throw this stuff in the bible to wast space ,maby am right , maby God is tryin to tell us somtin.in matthew17:1 say that jesus tool peter, james and john up to the mountain, apart from the rest, did the thing we want to know happen up there? Yes.jesus transfigured before them and the are giving a preview of his second coming glory, now the first word of the verse was "after six days" why did God throw this in? To was space? Or is God tryin to tell us somtin that we need to know?note:the time from adam to jesus is 4,000years[4days] the time of the church period is two thousand years[2days] so could this mean after 6000yrs [6days] God will revive isreal and fulfill his promise he made to them? Hmmm am I reading to much . If am right, BROTHERS WE ARE LIVING IN THE END OF DAYS. REPENT. THANK YOU.

Your analysis is very clever. Nicely done. I have always believed we humans don't understand time, especially with the creation narrative in Genesis.
however, you maybe right, we are most likely living in the endtimes, many prophesies are coming true.
Look at the chaos all over the world, the Islamic expansion in Europe, the persecution of Christians in the middle east. The dwindling morals and rise of homosexuality, the divisions in the church, false doctrines etc. Iran is making serious efforts to build their nuclear weapon and once they are done it is likely they may fire at Israel. Even if Israel fires back the Iranians will be happy to die as martyrs. The evidence is everywhere.

lafflaff123:
@Ifeann i am really, i mean very impressed with your level of knowledge and following your comments by heart.

Nice one.

I am even more impressed with you and @malvisguy212 for the effort you guys make to educate Muslims about their religion.
If you want to grow your knowledge you can google these webpages; answeringislam,
answering-Islam(dot)net/org,
Jihadwatch,
or watch Islam and christain debates by Dr. David wood (ex atheist ), Robert spenser and the eloquent Sam shamoun (exmuslim) , and Dr. Nahbeel (exmuslim) on youtube. They are great christain apologists.

[quote author=personal59 post=28914831]1)
@Personal59 we are still waiting for you to correct us if we are wrong about these issues in Islam.
Please show us passages to prove we are wrong.
If not, then why are you still a Muslim. Does Da'wah mean nothing to you.

[quote author=personal59 post=28914831]1)
Personal59 we are still waiting for you to correct us if we are wrong about these issues in Islam.
Please show us passages to prove we are wrong.
If not, then why are you still a Muslim. Does Da'wah mean nothing to you.

malvisguy212:
Surah 2:158: “Lo! (the mountains) As-Safa and
Al-Marwah are among the indications of Allah.
It is therefore no sin for him who is on pilgrimage
to the House (of Allah) or visiteth it, to go around
them (as the pagan custom is).” (Pickthall)


Sahih Bukhari, Volume 6, Book 60, Number 23:
Narrated By ‘Asim bin Sulaiman: I asked Anas bin
Malik about Safa and Marwa (i.e. two mountains
at Mecca). Anas replied, “We used to consider
(i.e. going around) them a custom of the Pre-
Islamic period of Ignorance, s o when Islam
came, we gave up going around them. Then Allah
revealed, ‘Verily, Safa and Marwa (i.e. two
mountains at Mecca) are among the Symbols of
Allah. So it is not harmful of those who perform
the Hajj of the House (of Allah) or perform the
Umra to ambulate (Tawaf) between them.’” ( Surah
2:158)

I love it when people backup their statements with references. Nicely Done.
The pagan origins is so clear,
Moslems also claim amnesia to the satanic verses. When facing resistance from the polytheistic Quraysh tribe Muhammad appears to have wavered in his monotheism. At one stage he commanded his followers to offer prayers to 'Allah's three daughters' – al-Lat, al-Uzza, and Manat, each of which had a shrine near Mecca.
"These are the exalted cranes Whose intercession is to be hoped for." (Surah 53:19-22)

All evidence points to Islam as false. Jesus warned us about false prophets (he told us by their fruit you shall know them, please Muslims look at the fruits of Islam), he foretold the persecution of his followers and the bible (in John ) warns us about the anti Christ. For they shall deny the father and the son, Islam denies that Jesus is the son of God the father. They deny he was crucified, died and resurrected. Their claim is that their god deceived people to think he was crucified.

malvisguy212:
The Qur’an states Muhammad was the first Muslim. ( Surah 6:163). However, it also that Abraham who lived centuries before Muhammad was a Muslim. ( Surah 3:67). And The Qur’an states that the disciples of Jesus who lived before Muhammad were also Muslims. ( Surah 5: 111). In fact, the Qur’an claims that all prophets, from the time of Abraham to Muhammad were Muslims. (Surah 22:78)
My question;
1. Since the quran say muhammed is the first muslim while at the same time declaring abraham and the rest who live hundred of years before the coming of muhammed to be a muslims,is this not a clear prove of contradiction?
2. How are you going to reconcile the Qur’an’s claim
that Muhammad was the first Muslim with the
Qur’an’s statement that the disciples of Jesus who
lived before him were Muslims?
3. Do you not agree that if Abraham was truly a
Muslim as the Qur’an claims, then Muhammad
cannot be the first Muslim?
4. Do you not agree that if the disciples of Jesus were truly Muslims as the Qur’an claims, then Muhammad cannot be the first Muslim?
5. Do you not agree that one or the other verse in the Qur’an is a lie?
6. Does this not clearly prove that the Qur’an contains a false statement in it?
Will the true Word of God contain an error in it?
7. As such, can you really trust the Qur’an as the Word of God?

Soo many question needed answer,the op say islam mean peace,surrender,does this not go against the freewill of God?adam and eve were giving a freewill which God did not interfere with,the word'' surrender'' seem's like a man who has ONE option to love God or die, but freewill has TWO option,love God or hate Him, it a choice which God will not interfere in it.

Wow, my brother in humanity I didn't even know about this, unfortunately I don't have a Koran nearby to confirm these, this is because I like to be sure before exposing faults in Islam. However, I am not surprised. The messages in the Koran contradicts themselves a lot. Atimes Muslim scholars call it abrogation. Can you imagine ?? They say their god changes his mind as it pleases Mohammed's situation,
This is one of the reasons you have moderate Muslims, I know some very nice moderate Muslims but they don't know the Koran and hadiths in depth. On the other hand, there are the extremist Muslims who understand the Koran a lot better and murder in islams name.

Muslims are not allowed to question the Koran and Mohammed, some scholars say it amounts to shirk (its an unforgivable sin). This is why those who don't question it remain trapped.

ProphetUdeme:
yeah thanks

You are welcome

ayinba1:
@ifeann
You missed the point or I assumed wrong. Abraham (pbuh) was a muslim. He practiced Islam, so did Moses, Job, Solomon, Jesus and all the other prophets of God (peace of God be upon them all). My post was therefore very relevant. I was hoping to motivate you to step back and find out information for yourself.

I didn't miss the point. I just observed how u took issue with an irrelevant matter and didn't address the main issue of Islam.

U say Abraham was a Muslim. I don't even want to argue with you on that because this is what you have been led to believe. There was nothing called Islam until it was invented by an Arabian man in the 7th century at mecca. He was probably a very intelligent man and his ideology (Islam) was subsequently used to conquer most of the middle east.
However, did you know he had no male children, would a "loving" god deny his prophet an heir to carryout his works, do you know how he really died. Do you know he was once bewitched at a point according to your sources, do you know why you have to keep on saying PBUH after saying his name, do you knw he said women have half the intelligence of a man (something you can never hear in the true word of God, the Bible). Do you knw what women are to expect in paradise.. Have you read your sources (authentic hadiths, commentaries etc ).

However, back to Abraham, Don't you think the Jews, the legal and true descendants of Abraham would have agreed with ur prophet if he was right. But they laughed at his claims because they knew better.

Visit the site www(dot)answeringmuslims(dot)com; to learn more about your religion. The parts your imam and sheik won't tell you.

You shall learn about the origins of the sufferings of women in Islam,
The beheadings,
The abrogations of revelations,
And I ask you this, why would you be in a religion that kills those who leave it. Why are u not allowed to question Islam.

Pray to the true God of Abraham Issac and Jacob to lead you to the truth.

macof:
Go read about Hitler and stop posting questionable quotes

And pls tell us About Mao, cus all I have read indicates he is a man highly loved and regarded by the Chinese for taking them into a state of economic, military and political greatness with his socialist policies, despite the tremendous collateral damage, China reaps bounty today because of this man.
He was not a religious fighter, but a damn determined politician. So how did atheism cause this?

You are quite stubborn. lol . Look its okay to be wrong. We learn everyday and our opinions evolve as more facts become apparent. Your support for atheism is WRONG and its time you accept it.
Apparently you can NOT find reasonable evidence to defend hitler as your ideals about him crumbles under the weight of my superior argument. Now you want me to educate you on Mao Zedong. Look if you want an ideology to fight, fight Islam because in an Islamic state under sharia law atheists such as yourself will be forced to say the shahadda and convert to Islam or be executed. As it was the case with the ottoman empire. Islam is growing in the UK, France, Germany and many other multicultural western European countries largely due to immigration and exponential births.

Just a point to remember about Mao Zedong, his rule caused the death of an estimated 40–70 million people through starvation, forced labour and executions, ranking his tenure as the TOP (Number 1) incidence of democide in human history. But I know you would like to focus on the beautiful, polluted and corrupt modern china he helped create. Just as pagan/ atheists Nazi Germany became the economic hub of Europe after Nazism eliminated 7million Jews and countless others.
Do you see a pattern here with atheism. Or do you just chose to be blind to facts.

courage54:
My dear dont believe most of those PDP propaganda that they spread online. They are just doing those things to mal the chracter of the General. Am acute christian from the same region with mr President but am rooting for Buhari because i no what he stand for and what he can achieve for Nigeria if given the opportunity to serve. So dont let anybody deceive you. If Buhari is so guilty of those allegations what now stop the PDP government from charging him to court after he has challenge them to show up evidence?

You sound like a sincere person who is tired of the status quo like most nigerians but You see, I am not even saying you should vote PDP, I don't even like PDP. But I posit that APC under Buhari is NOT the answer. If you read my earlier comments you will see valid reasons why I have this opinion.
PDP has Their propaganda, APC has their propaganda. However, there is propaganda and there are Facts.

Do you realize that the Moslem north has ruled this country for most of its existence and has destroyed it with just 3 weapons tribalism, religious bigotry and Nepotism.

You asked, "If Buhari is so guilty of those allegations what now stop the PDP government from charging him to court after he has challenge them to show up evidence?"
I don't knw which allegation you mean. The PDP cannot take him to court for loving and vehemently supporting a sharia law governed Islamic Nigeria.
I guess you are talking about his former CPC supporters rioting and murdering INEC and NYSC members. In that case my answer is the lack of EVIDENCE and our poor justice system. I don't even believe that buhari would have approved of his supporters doing those things.

But you must remember this, on a crime scene, a Lack of evidence does mean a crime was not committed.

courage54:
pls try and get your fact right, Buhari never plotted the coup. He was just called upon to the lead the government as the only sincere person they can trust. As for the people he is associating with, he need those people to win election and after that he will put them to where they rightly belong. As for the islamisation of Nigeria, that can not be possible in this present dispensation and PDP are just propaganting those false allegation to denied us the true leader we deserve.

I did NOT get any information from the PDP, infact I do NOT like the PDP.

I got my information from studying the issues and researching the claims. I am being objective. Infact in ignorance I voted for Buhari 4 years ago before I got to know his political and religious stance better.

PassingShot:
And when Buhari didn't surround himself with those people you call corrupt, did Nigerians vote for him?

It is idiotic for anyone to believe that any president of Nigeria can Islamize or Christianize the country.

Forget whatever you're fed with. All na propaganda. Come and join the change we need.

There are many reasons why the choice of buhari as the flag bearer is wrong. Before I continue I must say this, 4 years ago I VOTED for him. So here are my points why he is not ideal for Nigeria;
1. Buhari is a little younger than my Grandfather. I don't hold that against him but a disconnect exists and it is an issue. Especially since the majority of the population are classified as "youths". Any progressive youth won't vote for him.
2. He is a staunch supporter of the Islamic agenda for the propagation of sharia Law.

3. He brought down a democratically elected Government

4. His CPC supporters rioted and killed several NYSC Corp members after he lost his last attempt for Aso rock. I was upset and waited for his response, ask yourself how and when did he respond.

5.He didn't condemn or calm down his CPC supporters as they burnt, rioted and murdered people. But to be fair on Buhari, I think he later condemned the riots after a long delay and again, he can't be held responsible if he didn't give the orders.

6. His new party is filled with Muslims and he being a staunch supporter of sharia tells me what to expect from his Government

I will stop here but there are more points... And Point of correction I did NOT call anyone corrupt, their most be evidence. I said, "questionable people". But since you think he surrounds himself with corrupt people, that maybe a point you should consider. You asked, "And when Buhari didn't surround himself with those people you call corrupt, did Nigerians vote for him?"
YES, nigerians voted for him, Nigeria also voted for the "jerry curled and eloquent" chris okotie. However, the data says it was the overwhelming Muslim North that voted for him. Ponder abt that.

You also said 'It is idiotic for anyone to believe that any president of Nigeria can Islamize or Christianize the country" .. Do you see the flaw in your question. There are NO christain countries, NO buddist countries, NO hindu countries only secular democratic, atheist communist, perhaps monarchy and ISLAMIC countries. It doesn't take much to isalmize a country.

Things are tough Now for Nigerians, that's true. But let's not jump from frying pan to fire.

courage54:
APC are so bless with great personalities, Professor Osinbajo is a man of repute and he will be an asset to the development of this nation.






For God so loved Nigeria that he spared the life of Gen. Buhari till 2015, that who so ever desires progress and Votes for him may not regret but experience the true meaning of leadership where security, food, employment, zero corruption, transparency and infrastructural development prevails.
The number one problem facing Nigeria today is corruption! Fix corruption, and you fix Nigeria. Jonathan has only encouraged and promoted corruption. The ONLY person that is fearless and would ruthlessly cleans this country is General Mohammadu Buhari... Those who hate him have no idea why they do...he remains the most incorruptible ... Fearless... Patriotic and principled leadership figure remaining in Nigeria today. Nigeria may not be able to have the likes of Buhari in another 50years time.
Is only a fool that will continue to do things the same way and expect a different result, So Let's Make The Right Choice.

God Bless Nigeria
God Bless Niger-Delta
Sai Buhari

Before You criticise me am also a christian but I must not let my religion clown my sense of reasoning.

I agree with quite a number of points you raised but my worry about buhari is the questionable people he is surrounded by; as well as his staunch support for sharia Law all over Nigeria. Do you knw that as a christain under True Islamic sharia law you must pay the Jizyah (its an Arabic name for Protection tax for disbelievers of allah).
Buhari looks like a sincere man but don't forget his past, he once brought down a democratic Government in Nigeria before him too was ousted, all these set this country back by several decades