Thanks Muki,for at least respecting our great club. We will return to the top again.

As per this game,we should win to start some momentum going again.

[size=18pt][center]YOU'LL NEVER WALK ALONE !!![/center][/size]

bgees:

Can Hodgson please pack his bags too? that man will destroy the club O!

Pally ,cut the guy some slack na . . . . . 

Lets give him till Christmas & take a decision about then ,just before the Jan window . . ok? 

Dear Jarus,
Nice one. . . tho' Im not sure why you sent me the PM last time,in view of this daily trust link

To the topic at hand ,I think you have hit the nail on the head. The fact remains that in politics you have the educated ,upwardly mobile,internet savvy citizens(who usuall have a lot to lose & cannot stake their lives) as well as the not so educated (possibly very religious & loyal) masses,who can stake all for their benefactors/beliefs.

Whichever of these groups has the greater numbers should normally carry the day . And the situation in Kwara is quite clear.

Although a part of me would be happy to have a woman elected directly for governor in Nigeria for the first time,no matter the garbage it comes with,its still a achievemnet for our women in Nigeria.

Hallelujah !

I think this Peter (Asian guy) is just one loud mouth jare.

Congrats to NESV,lets hope thier tenure will bring success on the pitch.

[center][size=18pt]YOU'LL NEVER WALK ALONE  [/size][/center]

richardame:

new naira note is not Nigerian problem for now, we need good governance.

Good governance starts from telling ourselves some home truths.

We are Africans not arabs . . . . .

The UK court will rule soon on the jurisdiction of the Texas court & then it'll be uhuru.

Tho' to be candid I honestly don't trust these Americans.

zubeyr:

However there is no consensus between Muslim scholars that keeping Pubic hairs unshaved is haram

Ok. . . dat makes me feel better then.

I honestly think these guys are jokers. . . . .

Bloody waste of resources.

illusion2:

zubeyr:

I don't know what you meant by politics but shaving pubic hairs is one of the parts of the Fitrah(natural disposition)according to Islam
The Fitrah consists of five things "circumcision , trimming the mustache, cutting the nails ,Plucking the armpit ,and shaving the pubic hairs"

Thank you for this. Now is it haram to go against the Fitrah or its a nice to have ?

zubeyr:

Maybe you have a pubic hairs fetish who knows ?

Yeah . . .probably.

mukina2:

illusion you'll always walk alone

^^^ Nice one bro. I completely agree.

And that should be the focus for all genuine believers not politics (or shaving pubic hair  )

daralex007:

It's Kinda funny, We are 6 points away from UCL spot, 18th on the League table and we've played three of the title contenders. With 31 games left, I still believe we can prove our haterz wrong.

Solid and clear optimism from a real fan. . . well done bro.

dayokanu:

Singaporean stockbroker Peter Lim has made a £320 million bid for Liverpool, and news of a further bid has emerged in the High Court.

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=831612&sec=england&cc=5901

I kinda prefer the Asian guy's bid,he's not going to borrow as much as those American cowboys

muhsin:

I'm afraid you have started going to a place where you shouldn't. What has this thread got to do with that misguided Muslims (only by name but not in faith; we aren't the same), Ahmadiyya sect? You ought to have explored avenues of reason before stumbling into that matter, Illusion. Or you were unknowingly swept away by illusion? I hope not.

Hey ,this is your point of view . Can you tel me how many of the  over 1bn million 'muslims' around the world share this view? I'm sure you realise the much touted 1 point something billion muslims also includes Nation of Islam,Ahmadi,Alawi,Shia,Alevi,Ismaila,Sufi etc. .  and of course Sunni (of which we have various branches).

Christianity of course has even more sub-sections. The point I'm making is -lets stop pointing fingers.

muhsin:

What is the nature of your belief? Do you really believe the factuality of that correction chain? If yes, how?

Let me paraphrase it: do you believe that Islam surface to correct the wrongs of Christianity? Where is that said? Ain't saying it isn't said but I want to hear it from you lips for the sake of argument. You may say Qur'an or Hadith; do you believe in either or both? The answer, I know, is of course no. If that I'll simply draw a curtain for the argument. If yes (at least some portion [where it suits you]), ha! That's what I suppose you'll say to back up your claim. For your info its said in both that Prophet Muhammad, may Allah exalt his mention, is but the last of all Messengers of Allah. Then tell me who is that non-existent prophet Ahamad? In fact Ahamad is another name for the beloved prophet, the fact which the sect constantly deny. They rather say its one Ahmadul-Gulam.

Of course you know my views. The point I'm making is that we all see things from our own point of view. its very easy & convenient to say the other person is wrong and you are right.

I need a Muslim answer to this question - WHAT IS THE PURPOSE OF LIFE?

This is Wahabbism pure and simple,the most intolerant ideology on earth even worse than Nazism.

It justifies killing 'infidels' and guarantees 'matyrs' and their families multiple v.aginal orifices

John in arabic is Yahia

The muslims call John the baptist - Prophet Yahia & his grave is in Damascus Syria (Umoayyed mosque to be precise).

uplawal:

@Illusion,issh,hes not your friend pls

On the contrary ,he's my friend.

I hope you had a good Juma today

Lagosboy:

@Illusion

Let us leave this issue for the time being because i am sure you know the very first doctrine in islam is the Oness of God and if your innermost heart would agree the quran would not then say otherwise and propose trinity when Allah said it clear and consise in Q5v 73 Surely, disbelievers are those who said: "Allâh is the third of the three (in a Trinity)." But there is no ilâh (god) (none who has the right to be worshipped) but One Ilâh (God -Allâh). And if they cease not from what they say, verily, a painful torment will befall the disbelievers among them.

Also in Q 4 v 71 O people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians)! Do not exceed the limits in your religion, nor say of Allâh aught but the truth. The Messiah 'Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), was (no more than) a Messenger of Allâh and His Word, ("Be!" - and he was) which He bestowed on Maryam (Mary) and a spirit (Rûh) created by Him; so believe in Allâh and His Messengers. Say not: "Three (trinity)!" Cease! (it is) better for you. For Allâh is (the only) One Ilâh (God), Glory be to Him (Far Exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belongs all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. And Allâh is All­Sufficient as a Disposer of affairs.

I hope reading this 2 verses would lay this issue to a rest inshallah. You could believe in trinity but you cannot justify trinity using the quran NEVER !!!

And God Knows best

This is precisely my point on the Holy prophet Mohammed (pbuh) and the political side of his ministry on earth.

The fact remains that he had the benefit of reading and observing the Christian and Jewish beliefs and Holy Books (I personally believe he was initially a catholic because of his first wife Khadija - a confirmed catholic)

Lets just say for argument sake ,God wanted to correct the 'false' teaching of the Trinity (we have christians who do not believe in the Trinity by the way -they are called Unitarians),now tell me,how is it possible that God Almighty could have sent the Holy prophet (pbuh) to 'correct' the errors in christianity and muslims believe the same ALMIGHTY GOD  cannot correct the Holy prophet after he has passed on ?

I'm linking this to the story of the Ahmadis. How do you on one hand claim the holy prophet has come to correct the error in christianity but it ends there?
http://www.alislam.org/

Christians believe we have come to correct(or perfect) the Jews,the muslims believe they have come to correct christians & the Ahmadis have come to correct mainstream Islam.

And Illusion2 has finally come to correct the Ahmadis 

^^^ I can sense your temprature rising. , my friend take it easy.

If you can't handle such stuff please let me know

I just don't trust them Americans. . , walahi we need a Russian or better still an Emirati

muhsin:

Allah, the Exalted, wasn't referring to anything like this. What can you say about other numerous verses that say direct opposite of you false thinking? Let's presume your "explanation" of the verse(s) is correct, how did you arrive to that?

And when did you become the Divine interpreter? How are  you to know exactly what Allah was referring to ?

muhsin:

Our God, Allah, the Exalted, is 1-in-1; He's nothing like 3-in-1, 1-in-3 or whatsoever. Allah is One with no partners to Him. He is One in His Self, Attributes, and Actions.
Suratul Ikhlas (C. 112) has said it all:
In the name Of Allah, The most Gracious, The Most Merciful.
Say, Allah is One,
Allah The Everlasting, The Eternal,
He has not given birth and was not born,
And no one is comparable to Him.

Can you explain how God can be Omnipresent in a simple rational, scientific manner? I guess not.
How can One God read the thoughts of over 6 billion human beings at the same time??
The point I’m trying to make my friend is that we should not try to explain God with our rational, objective mind. And that’s why I gave the illustration as 3 in 1 is not the same scientific or mathematical 2+1.

Now the issue of Jesus Christ being the only begotten son of God is an issue with muslims,which is fine. Just as a lot of what we both believe cannot be reasonably explained in a scientific rational manner
e.g. why should we pray facing only one specific side when God is everywhere ?

muhsin:

Although I'm stiffly afraid you may mis-comprehend what I got to say regarding this, I'll say it.
You sound like an unrepentant atheist there. Islam, like any other "religions", heavily gets a lot to do with dogmatism. I'm not saying, in any way, there's no wisdom in any set down dos and donts in Islam (or generally religions), but if thats what you adherently want to see, understand and believe then better renounce your faith. And there's absolutely none you'll ever embrace in.

No problems , say it as you feel.

No I’m not an atheist. I actually belong to the most conservative aspects of Christianity, however I have come to realise all faiths (NOT RELIGIONS) generally share a strong belief in the  Almighty .

Religion is all about don’t do this, do that . . . Christians are this, Muslims worship idols inside the Ka’abba, the moon gods etc.

So anything I post is all in my attempt to learn more about Islam and muslims and not go with stereotypes.

muhsin:

And regarding taking things in context is what many non-Muslims (and very sadly and unfortunately even some Muslims) do to justify killing in the Qur'an or other snooty actions. More-over, some Muslims too do so to back up their pedestrian understanding of the Bible. I know. So, unless and until we distant ourselves to doing so we'd better forget understanding one another.

This is precisely my point. There is indeed a difference between RELIGION and FAITH (or spirituality).

The fact remains that we can justify ANYTHING from our Holy books in the name of religion. The holy books comprise Historical aspects, Poetic aspects, Moral aspects, traditions and cultures as well.

So anyone can pick up anything to justify whatever they want. Imagine someone who believes 72 virgins are waiting for him in paradise when he blows himself up. Has anyone given any thought to how he will sleep with these virgins? Will God recreate his manhood in heaven??

So thats how it goes. . . .

muhsin:

Lastly, got an example to set: is there a wisdom in carrying an ordinary wooden/metal cross and say it's there to protect its holder? What's protective in it?

A
nother good example of Religion and not spirituality.

muhsin:
Hmm. You do not believe in anything (positive) about the noble Prophet, Muhammad (SAW). If did you wouldn't have been a Christian. So address him the way you actually wanted to; don't do anything to "please" us. That's unlike we Muslim who believe in everything positive with Jesus (PBUH) and his mother; and the revelation sent to him by his Creator, Sender and whom he worshiped.

On the contrary I do have positive views of the holy Prophet Mohammed (pbuh),and that is the point I’m trying to prove.

We do not have to hate each other even if our ‘religious’ beliefs are different (more on RELIGION  down below)

You are also right in that I would have preferred to do without Holy, Prophet or pbuh, but because I appreciate your religious sensibilities, I choose to use these appellations.

On the spiritual and most moral aspects I think the prophet was spot on. His view of and respect for life and other religions was also worthy of emulations.

However I think the POLITICAL side of the prophet which makes up majority of the Qur’an and hadiths is where many (wrongly) draw their conclusions. And though’ most moderate Muslims will not publicly accept it- they also have their reservations.

Just a brief intro on Politics and Spirituality.
The birth of Jesus Christ was foretold in the old (Jewish) Testament of the Bible,(e.g  Isaiah 7:14 ,Jer 23:5 etc).
In all the above prophecies the Jewish people believed (and still belief till today) that the Messiah (Al Masih in the Qu’ran) would not only be a spiritual leader but also a political one to emancipate/deliver  them from the foreign occupation they were going through.

At the time of Jesus birth it was Roman colonization ,before then   you had an assorted crew of alien administrators  who ran amok in the Jewish lands (like Israel is doing to the Palestinians now ) . So the coming of the Messiah could not have come at a better time. He was expected to lead the ‘independence’ fight and bring back the dynastic rule of King David.

However, he disappointed all, by emphasising a Heavenly Kingdom instead.
He avoided anything political and focused on human kind making heaven.

And this is where the distinction lies ,the prophet of Islam I suspect got involved in the political side of this mission (not by his own initial doing of course) and this is where I suspect things took a turn .

And so what you would find as ‘Islamic’ or ‘Sharia’ finance, customs, etc have nothing to do with God directly, as all cultures  develop these systems over time. But are purely human inventions garbed with religious nostalgic undertones for political purposes and to bring uniformity to a political entity.
So are laws on apostasy, infidelity etc. These are laws set by men to administer a people

It’s just like someone saying the atomic bomb is Jewish because it was first invented by a Jew.

So if we remove the political side of the religion (caliphate, wars, taxation,imposition etc). We have a faith in God (Islam) which is near complete as one would have it.

Many Muslims believe one cannot have complete faith in God without all these other (non-spiritual aspects) but just like we have been encouraged to read all our religious texts in and out of contexts.  . . it is important we place every aspect of the Qur’an in contexts of history, politics, time as well as environment.

muhsin:

You are correct. Lol!
I would like you to shed more light on that theory--yours;

Very simple. . . Allah was refering to the GodHead - The Father ,The Son and The Holy Spirit.

3-in-1 , One Immutable ,Immortal ,OmniPotent & OmniPresent God.

You cannot fathom him like 2+1 =3. But Trinity it is.

The more I read the Qu'ran,the more the Bible is confirmed. I am beginning to believe the Holy Prophet Mohammed (pbuh) had a sound knowledge of the Bible,but as we all agree he was both a spiritual and a political leader.

The political side . . . . (I'll reserve comment for now).

Lagosboy:

@illusion
You must have the muslims explantion before like bro Muhsin highlighted but let me quickly explain it again.

The Quran wasnot revealed in english but arabic and no christian arab would ever ever use this arguement of 'we' to justify trinity. This is because yoruba is similar to arabic in some terms and etymology. When a king in yourba wants to adrees himself he says "awa npa yin lase" "We are commanding you" The 'WE" doesnt indicate there are two kings but a language of nobility and status. I n arabic Allah sometimes uses "Ana" (I) for himself ans sometimes uses "Nahnu" WE for himself signifying his status. In english it is called the Royal WEand was previously used by the royals centuries ago.

Ore mi atata,ojo t'o ba bere si ni ma lo 'emi' abi 'awa' fun ara e, Yaba left l'oda ni yen o   .(My dearest friend ,the day you begin to use 'we' or 'us' for yourself. . . na psychiatric ward be dat o !)

Isn't it interesting ,how we begin to look at etymolgy,sentence construction,context and predicates for some suras and yet we take some just as they are for e.g when the Qu'ran talks about not eating pork,has anyone cared to investigate why ? Probably it isn't really forbidden when we take the pronouncement in context  

Or covering your hair,hands,feet or women shaving pubic hair (one of my main concerns with Islam   ).

So let's always take everythiing in context or leave as is . . . . .  

duduspace:

I told y'all a while back that Rafa wasn't the problem, Liverpool has a systemic problem. Yorubas say If you don't accept Kadara (destiny), then you'll end up accepting kodoro (absolute failure). The difference between Arsenal and Liverpool is management and the inability of most football clubs to stick to a long term policy which might not necessarily get trophies in the short term but keep the club afloat.

Eh ! Chineke ^{** claps his hands multiple times like a bemused nigerian would**} , Arsenal sef dey get mouth. Kai !

It is well. . . . . , .

Sorry guys for stooping to the guy's level ,I was just angry. . .

[center][size=18pt]You'll Never Walk Alone[/size][/center]

Dear Bro Muhsin (not Mushin  ),

I honestly catch your drift. The point I'm making is that no one has all the answers. No matter how you try to explain away those verses. . . . they are quite clear to anyone that reads in.

Allah refers to himself in the singular many times in the Qu'ran as well, so why this?

The similarity of the above suras and God referring to Himself in the plural in Genesis 1:26 as well as in singular in may other verses (e.g Ex 3:14) is quite striking my friend,so don't always feel -" those christians are idol worshippers,they don't know what they are doing " .

There are 2 possible explanations of the suras above - one of which is my theory on the Trinity. The other is Olabowale's theory. . . so . . .you believe what you want. I hope you catch my drift 

chic2pimp:

[size=20pt]LOOSERFOOLS, HOW MERKET!!!![/size]

[size=28pt]YOU'LL FOREVER WALK ALONE!!! [/size]

F.u.ck you f.o.ol !

The i.mbecil.e can't even spell correctly 

Today was a total disaster. . . but lets hope for the best.

Lagosboy:

My good pal The thing wey happen be say Ifys heart was illuminated and she decided to bow in submission to God without associating any partners in him and she was convinced about Muahmmed PBUH being the Prophet of God Likewise Jesus PBUH.
I am patiently waiting for the day you will toe this path yourself inshallah!!

Dear brother ,I sense sincerity in your heart and it is plausible that if Usman Dan Fodio had gotten to my great grandfather's village earlier I could have been where you are at the moment with a name like Ismaila,Hakeem,Isiaka or something similar .

However God in His infinite mercy did not make it this way.

I have said the shadadah many times with my childhood friends when we used to play football on the streets of surulere many years ago,after they come back from 'ile-kewu' we would recite lai la illalau. . . alif,ba, ta, tha etc. However that doesn't make me a muslim,neither is it possible to become one.

I have read the Quran twice and the Bible many times more and although the core fundamentals are similar,I do not agree with many aspects of Islam.

I love muslims however & Insha Allah - Muki will become my wife in due course . I will christen her Mary. Alhamdulilah ! 

On the issue of Trinity,Allah clearly made you aware of this,but you probably have not come across these verses in the Qu'ran :

Sura 6 vs.94
"And behold! ye come to Us bare and alone as We created you for the first time. . ."

Sura 7 vs.11
"It is We Who created you and gave you shape; . . ."

Q.23 vs.12
"Verily We created man from a product of wet earth. . ."

Q.21 vs.73
"And We made them Imams who guided (people) by Our command, and We revealed to them the doing of good and the keeping up of prayer and the giving of the alms, and Us (alone) did they serve"  (trans. by Pickthal: "and they were worshippers of Us (alone).".

ifyalways:

No,i and my Partner were Christians b4.I did not marry a born Muslim.

Really? So wetin come happen ?

Please share your testimony. . . .

I noticed you metioned 'partner' & not 'husband' . . .