₦airaland Forum

lfleak:
Really? Read the verses I ordered you to before ranting read from 27-34... you will understand better...

why do you keep flying away from a topic to the other.. No problem..

About Quran 9:29...
Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day - Yea, the Quran orders us to fight and be against those who do not believe in the ONENESS of Allah(GOD) and Do not believe in the LAST DAY(JUDGEMENT DAY)

and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture - Yea, those who do the unlawful things, like fornication, theft, rape, murder among the rest NOTE: this doesnt limit to none believers, but also muslims who are guilty of this acts...

until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled. what is jizyah..? Jizyah is a tax levied upon the people who are under the protection of a muslim govt...

if I should delve into the bible... you know what I mean.?

And you are even cherry Picking the same verse. Before I get there, can I just say maybe its Allah that is confused. You can't call the descendants of Cain and Abel children of Israel. That title is for the children of Jacob. Not even Abraham. So either you are confused or Allah is. Pick one.
Now to the verse. Am glad u agree that those who don't believe in Allah should be fought. And as for "the Muslims" included, isn't that why Boko haram bomb mosques too? Because they believe you all are doing things unlawfully. And guess what? They are right. So you Koran says, fight the unbelievers (and this isn't WWE, this is fight with a sword, hence kill). This part is for infidels like me and the atheists.
Then fight the Muslims who do not obey the law: this part is for you "peaceful" Muslims who do not obey the first law.
Now you said the Jizyah is a tax by those under a Muslim government? What a nice way to put it. The Jizyah is a form of oppression. Let's see this:

Sahih Muslim (1:33) - "I have been commanded to fight against people so long as they do not declare that there is no god but Allah, and he who professed it was guaranteed the protection of his property and life on my behalf except for the right affairs rest with Allah.'s The "protection" needed by the unbeliever is from Muhammad himself. In other words, the jizya is paid by the non-Muslim in exchange for not being killed.

lfleak:
are you not wise..?
the children of isreal referred to there are the descendant of cain and abel, which is every one of us!

secondly.. for those who WAGE WAR AGAINST ALLAH & THE PHOPHET MUHAMMED (SAW)
Tell me what u dnt understand there...Your opponents wages war against you.. then you sit in your room and await them right..?
Its a defensive verse...now I await you..

Ha! Since when did Children of Israel become defendants of Cain and Abel? Children of Israel, are descendants of Israel who is Jacob! Don't confuse it please. And I knew you will bring up the defensive war argument. Didn't want to bring out Koran 9 but now I have to.
Koran 9:29 - Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture - [fight] until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled.
So there you go. I didn't see any "self defence" there. Or maybe am not seeing well. Please show me.
I await you

lfleak:
I would have love to call you names, but I wont..

now take a fvking step backward and read the previous verse before that or rather start from 27..

The verse was being revealed to Prophet Mohammed (SAW) about Qabil and Abeela(Cain and Abel)
about how cain was the first to murder on earth, that was when he (ALLAH) lay down that rule of the actual verse 32.. not what happened during muhammed's time... learn to read carefully..

I await you here...

Ah! Calling me names! I won't be surprised. You lot are inherently violent. Now back to the verse, we are saying the same thing. That rule was made for the children of Israel! Not for Muslims. For the Jews! The Jews are infidels remember? Now look at the next verse for those who wage war against Allah and his prophet (hence followers like you). Look at the sickening way in which they should be punished.
I await you here.

HottestFire:
The question is how many of these terrorist and brainwashed suicide bomber actually read the Quran

Trust me, its better they don't even read the Koran. Cuz if they do, they will definitely get more violent.

lfleak:
retards everywhere.. bringing out twisted verses... Its spelt Quran not Koran

There you go. You don't even know your own Koran. And by the way, I don't care how you spell it. That's how I spell mine.

Muslims and cherry picking verses is like 5 and 6. Now let's look at the verse the young man quoted.
Koran 5:32 - Because of that, We decreed upon the Children of Israel that whoever kills a soul unless for a soul or for corruption [done] in the land - it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. And whoever saves one - it is as if he had saved mankind entirely. And our messengers had certainly come to them with clear proofs. Then indeed many of them, [even] after that, throughout the land, were transgressors.
Read that verse carefully. What did it start with? "For the children of Is real" that is the Jews! That rule ain't for the Muslims but the Jews. And it was a warning, threatening the them to not hurt Muslims. Now let's look at the very next verse cherry pickers!
Koran 5:33 - Indeed, the penalty for those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger and strive upon earth [to cause] corruption is none but that they be killed or crucified or that their hands and feet be cut off from opposite sides or that they be exiled from the land. That is for them a disgrace in this world; and for them in the Hereafter is a great punishment,
So, there you go . I can go ahead and quote the whole of Koran chapter 9 but that one already has done justice.

ItsMeAboki I have something for you sir.

sokul:
I wan carry front seat

Make your self comfortable

sokul:

What is funny?

Carefully watch this video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNAS0aaViM4

ItsMeAboki:
As I have already told you before, I am not going to indulge you and derail the thread out of your ignorant desire to disgrace yourself - lastly, be careful of what you are wishing for.

Lol. Let me break it down for you. I don't debate to prove I am right. I debate to learn. And so far, I don't learn nothing from you lot as you keep running away from the blinding truth. Here is a tread https://www.nairaland.com/3573920/did-allah-spread-christianity I can't open another one until that one is cleared. If you can open my eyes to what i am not seeing in that thread, then my friend, trust me, I will open a lot more and mention u to come educate me. But until then, go back to your Koran and read more, because you have no idea what you are up a against. Let me give you a hint. You are up against the truth and the truth shall set you free.

smallrincowis16:
very very sure of it. as in surest

I want you to read this carefully.
Let me start from the beginning.
Sahih al- Bukharin 6.61.510: Uthman sent to every Muslim province one copy of what they had copied and ordered that all the other Koranic materials, whatever written in fragmentary manuscripts or whole copies, be burnt!
So here we can see that Uthman had already ordered some part of the Koran to be burnt. I didn't write this or make it up. You can confirm. Now let's move on.
Sahih al- Muslim 2286 : Abu Harb b. Abu al-Aswad reported on the authority of his father that Abu Musa al-Ash'ari sent for the reciters of Basra. They came to him and they were three hundred in number. They recited the Qur'an and he said: You are the best among the inhabitants of Basra, for you are the reciters among them. So continue to recite it. (But bear in mind) that your reciting for a long time may not harden your hearts as were hardened the hearts of those before you. We used to recite a surah which resembled in length and severity to (Surah) Bara'at. I have, however, forgotten it with the exception of this which I remember out of it: "If there were two valleys full of riches, for the son of Adam, he would long for a third valley, and nothing would fill the stomach of the son of Adam but dust." And we used so recite a surah which resembled one of the surahs of Musabbihat, and I have forgotten it, but remember (this much) out of it: "Oh people who believe, why do you say that which you do not practise" (lxi 2.) and "that is recorded in your necks as a witness (against you) and you would be asked about it on the Day of Resurrection" (xvii. 13).
So from this place you can see that some chapters of the Koran were missing because they were forgotten! Are you following me?
Sahih al-bukari 6.61.527: Ubay was the best of us in the recitation of the Koran. Yet we leave some of what he recites. Ubay says, I have taken it from the mouth of Allah's messenger and will not leave it for anything whatsoever.
Notice that Ubay was one of the four teachers of the Koran who Mohammed recommended that the Koran be learnt from. And yet some things in his recitation are left out of the present Koran. Follow me, let's keep going.
Now who put together the Koran we have today? Zayd ibn Thabit. Was he one of the top four teachers recommended by Mohammed? Nope. Who were they? Abdulla Ibn Mas’ud, Salim (a freed slave of Abu Hudhaifa), Mu’adh bin Jabal and Ubay bin Ka’b. (Sahih Bukhari 6.61.521).
So definitely, one of these four must have compiled the Koran we have today? Nope. Instead Zayd Ibn Thabit compiled it. Now notice that the first name Mohammed mentioned in the teaching of the Koran was Mas'ud? What did he have to say about today's Koran?
Jami At- Tirmidhi 3104: Az-Zuhri said: "'Ubaidullah bin 'Abdullah bin 'Utbah informed me that 'Abdullah bin Mas'ud disliked Zaid bin Thabit copying the Musahif, and he said: 'O you Muslims people! Avoid copying the Mushaf and the recitation of this man. By Allah! When I accepted Islam he was but in the loins of a disbelieving man' - meaning Zaid bin Thabit - and it was regarding this that 'Abdullah bin Mas'ud said: 'O people of Al-'Iraq! Keep the Musahif that are with you, and conceal them.
Now not only did ubay (best reciter) disagree with today's Koran, Mas'ud (number one teacher) did too. Let's not even go into Aisha's sheep eating verses on stoning and breastfeeding (more on this if you still want to discuss). Now let's sum this up.
Sahih al- Bukhari 6.61.509 : Narrated Zaid bin Thabit:
Abu Bakr As-Siddiq sent for me when the people! of Yamama had been killed (i.e., a number of the Prophet's Companions who fought against Musailama). (I went to him) and found 'Umar bin Al-Khattab sitting with him. Abu Bakr then said (to me), "Umar has come to me and said: "Casualties were heavy among the Qurra' of the! Qur'an (i.e. those who knew the Quran by heart) on the day of the Battle of Yalmama, and I am afraid that more heavy casualties may take place among the Qurra' on other battlefields, whereby a large part of the Qur'an may be lost. Therefore I suggest, you (Abu Bakr) order that the Qur'an be collected." I said to 'Umar, "How can you do something which Allah's Apostle did not do?" 'Umar said, "By Allah, that is a good project. "Umar kept on urging me to accept his proposal till Allah opened my chest for it and I began to realize the good in the idea which 'Umar had realized." Then Abu Bakr said (to me). 'You are a wise young man and we do not have any suspicion about you, and you used to write the Divine Inspiration for Allah's Apostle. So you should search for (the fragmentary scripts of) the Qur'an and collect it in one book)."
So what do we have here? Many reciters of the Koran died in a battle and many of the Korans where lost. So Abu Bakr asked Thabit to compile what was left. I'm not done. Now read the entire passage of Jami At- tirmidhi you will find out that different people had their own different manuscripts. Disputes started to happen on what should be in the Koran and what should be left out. Ibn Mas'ud had 111 chapters according to Ibn Abi Daud, kitab al-masahif. Ubay had 116 while while Zayd had 114 chapters. Check the source, I didn't make this up. So you see? Koran has had its own dispute too.

ItsMeAboki:
Now who is dodging; like I said, open a thread and invite me for a debate and you will not be disappointed - a trial will convince you.

Trial : answer the question in the thread link I posted. I will be so convinced to open another thread for me and u to debate.

smallrincowis16:
the prophet S.A.W and compiled by the students.
note the prophet had said that anything his companion do together is part of the religion

So are you saying that the Koran is complete?

smallrincowis16:
i'm vindicated by your words. insertion and omition in the word of GOD? who are the writers of the manuscript? are they known and why do their words differ

Oh Lord. Don't you get it? The Bible is not just the Word of God. Have you even read it? It is a historical account, a guildline for Christians and the Word of God. The four gospels complements each other in the sense that what was omitted from one was recorded in another. Are your Hadiths complete? Are there not things omitted? Let's keep pretending like things weren't omitted from the Koran which you claim is the sole word of Allah. Like I said, Uthman burnt some. Aisha's sheep ate some. Abu Bakr sent people that had memorized some of it to war and they were killed. I don't see you complaining about that. At least we have manuscripts to back our Bible, what to you have to back your Koran

smallrincowis16:
why should suppose word of GOD be subjected to edition? can you even tell the biographies of those that write the manuscript?

Let me ask you a simple question. Who wrote the Koran?

[quote author=smallrincowis16 post=54868945][/quote]You didn't read my post did you? Go back and read my post carefully, then reply me.

[url][/url]

ItsMeAboki:
Yes, when they tell us to eat grass, drink petrol, suck out their sperm, ladies not to wear pants in church or walk on us, kick us in the stomach, make false prophesies etc while fleecing us of our hard earned money to support their opulent lifestyle and leaving us in poverty.

Pls do not derail the thread; if you wish to challenge me on a debate on Islam against Christianity pls open a new thread dedicated for that reason; perhaps then we may learn how artificial (man-made/fake) your religion truly is - do not blame me should you want to commit suicide afterwards.

Hahahahahahahahahhhahahahaha. I don't follow prophets or the pope. I follow Jesus. I think you should open that thread cuz I'm tired of opening arguing with Muslims who run away when I back them into a corner. Or better still, try your knowledge of Islam on this thread https://www.nairaland.com/3573920/did-allah-spread-christianity and let's see if you can save your fellow Muslims from the embarrassment.

smallrincowis16:
should i start to mention lot of verses omitted in the RSV? which were in the KJV

Oga I have seen this argument many times. As for the omitted verses, this is why. KJV was published in 1611, but recent manuscripts discovered has shown that some of the verses in the KJV are not in the original manuscripts. For instance, let's take Matthew 17:21 which says "but this kind never comes out except by prayer and fasting". This was not in the original original manuscripts so was taken out by more recent versions but there is always a footnote, which leads you to the original KJV version. Now you might ask, why did KJV add what was not in the original manuscripts? Let's see if we can find out. If you look at Mark 9: 29, you will notice a very similar text to Matthew 17:21. What does that tell you? The writer of KJV copied the text directly from Mark 9:29 to Matthew just so the two verses can square up. And that's why as new manuscripts were discovered, these little differences were spotted and taken out.
Now you might want to shout " corruption"! But unlike you lot who claim that the Koran is the unadulterated word of God (forgetting that Uthman burnt some verses and Aisha's sheep ate some), the Bible is a combination of the words of God and also a historical text. And you must note that any omitted verse you throw at me are of minor significance. They do not change the crucial themes of the Bible which you Muslims argue against. So yes. The Bible of today is the same one your prophet confirmed. Maybe you should do a lil research and stop relying on what your Imams tell you.

analice107:
The Guy is making a mess of Islam. They want to kill him like mad.

Satan hates to be exposed.

I see many hate messages they send to him. The guy is one brave man of God. I wish more Muslims could listen to him.

smallrincowis16:
pls which bible is confirmed in QURAAN? KJV, RSV, PENTICOSTAL..........,....

Chai. You guys are so funny. Just so you know. All you "they have corrupted the Bible" Muslims, that is one argument that don't hold water. Even your greatest Muslim teachers no longer use that argument. Cuz there are hundreds of ancient Greek and Hebrew manuscripts, some of them dating back to the first century and none of those manuscripts has ever contradicted what we have in the Bible today. And KJV Is not different from RSV or any other. They just tend to complement each other by explaining better what one doesn't make clear. So my brother, the Bible we have today is the same one your prophet confirmed. Try another argument.

smallrincowis16:
validity on which bible? and why should bible not confirm its validity itself?

Oga. Are u saying we have more than one bible?

analice107:
I know David Wood well. I follow him on YouTube.

The guy is genius! I will have to start posting his videos here. Just that these 10mb people won't even be able to watch it. Chai. I watch at least omee David wood video everyday.

smallrincowis16:
i meant people just give the name bible to INJEEL. the today's bible is not known to ALLAH, nor his prophets

So you are saying today's Bible is different from the one used during the time of Muhammad?

analice107:
Have sex with them offcourse. Muslims and sex, disgusting.
Muhammed who made them the promise is in hell, haven been killed by a woman. Of all his expectations of having sex for eternity, he allowed himself to be killed by a girl, now he can't enter Allah's heaven, that's why muslims pray for him every time they mention him, hoping allah will have mercy( which he is not capable of) and allow him even see the virgins, not to talk of touching them. Irresponsible Muhammed.

He spent his life degrading Jews and women. Its funny he was killed and outsmarted by a Jewish woman.

analice107:
If you look passed them you'd see an entity who hates who is in you. Satan hates the fact that he can't get you to believe his lies.

Satan hates Jesus and by extension, those who love Christ. These atheists are all demon possessed. One of them here mistakenly followed a friend to church last year, unfortunately for her, she ventured where there is power, the demons in her almost got her killed, but fortunately, she got delivered, today she is preaching what she stood against. Today, she feels sorry for her former folk.


They are demonsssssss possessed, that's why.

Just listened to the testimony of a former Atheist. His name is David Wood. You really, really, need to listen to him. Search him on YouTube. Plus, he is every Muslim's night mare. You will have so much fun. I think I might start posting his videos here to drive our Muslim clerics nuts.

Leiman100:
this is one of the several lies we have seen so far, I watched this video before now, and picked a lot holes in it. the guy was never a Muslim. he only concocted lies about the Quran. like for instance he mention that the Quran said Mary ascended to heaven, there is no such thing in the Quran. he can only deceive his fellow Christians but no Muslim can be moved by this thrash we know the Quran well.

So you are saying it is impossible for a Muslim to convert to Christianity? Then why are your fellow Muslims trying to kill him then?

ItsMeAboki:
Is that rubbish relevant to what I had earlier posted? - pls receive sense.

And yet another Muslim tries to run away from the glaring falsehood of the Koran. You called us gullible. I said Muslims are more gullible cuz they swallow everything their imams teach them without proper research. I think you need the sense more.

OLAADEGBU:
Guess what surprise allāh has for them on that day.

analice107:
I wonder. If only he'll calm down and try to be coherent, he spent his data fuming everywhere.

I am yet to understand this anger these atheist have towards us. I don't get it.

ItsMeAboki:
Abeg, shut up, you said nothing; so what is there to prove wrong?

If I was a Muslim, I realized my god didn't know the difference between Mary the mother of Jesus and Miriam the sister of Aaron, I think I will start to question him.

Prove me wrong.

ItsMeAboki:
Absolute bullocks, you made no point at all; only spewed bigotry and sentiments - just typical, innit?