₦airaland Forum

abdulrazat:
Please educate us Mr. History...

stop sulking and accept the fact that Buhari was not the best choice.

First you need to ask your self what determines the price of currencies? Simple. Supply and demand. Now how do we earn dollars? Simple. Exportation. What do we export in Nigeria? Simple. Crude oil alone. Every other thing is imported. How much was crude oil (the only thing we export) sold under Gej? Simple. An average of 100 dollars per barrel. Hence there was less pressure on the demand of dollars cuz we earned more then. What should Gej have done in that time of plenty? Save for rainy day and diversify the economy so we can export more products and earn more dollars. But what did he do? Nothing. And made sure we continued to depend on exportation of a product which price was not determined by us and was very erratic. Now, price of oil is about 30 to 40 dollars per barrel with avengers reducing production and you expect us to have more dollars to trade? This simple means we are earning less dollars hence there is pressure on dollars cuz the demand is more than the supply. And remember, we import every single item including refined oil. This has also led to hike in prices. Let me explain why. As an importer, you used to buy one dollar at 175 naira and now you buy it at 500 naira. Question. When you import your product, will you sell it at the same price? Nope.
Moral of the story. You should have listened during economics classes.

TheGoodJoe:
Na wa.

Dollars was available during GEJ's time because of massive inflow of dollars. It means dollars was not scarce due to high prices of Crude Oil and sales in large quantities.

Today, due to the drop in demand of Crude Oil internationally, low Crude Price and disturbances in the Niger Delta, there is less dollars in the system. There is low sales with low Crude Oil Prices. This makes dollars scarce and the high exchange rate.

So it is not a case of massive looting or massive savings.

Been waiting for one reasonable comment sir and you just nailed it. These people need to be educated.

hopefulLandlord:
You're not getting a moment's breathing space from me


its not a sin to be prepared, is it?

Actually, I was waiting for you to pull out old testament Scriptures because that is and always has been your strongest armour. And the fact you do not know that Muslims don't believe Jesus died just tells me how little you know about Islam.

sorry bro, he's raised alive to heaven, I got that mixed up

good


God commanded the killings of Canaanites and amelekites, blah blah blah. Now I wonder what gives humans the moral justification to give the capital punishment to killers and yet criticise God for killing people who sinned against Him? We as humans classify sin. God doesn't. Sin is sin and the wages of sin is death. I guess you did not bother to look up the history of the Canaanites and amelekites and their wickedness. Painting them as some kind of victims is actually very funny. Now you should realize that not all of them even died. God gave them 400 years to repent. And yet he saved Rahab who was willing to change.

of course, they were "sinful", so were the children, the children and animals too were sinful or did you just ignore the fact that I emphasised "CHILDREN"?

OH! BTW you just boxed yourself to a corner again! seems you don't know very well whom you're chatting with here......

an Islamic Jihadist would say those he's killing are INFIDELS and they deserve to die according to the command of their version of god; YOU and your cohorts are SINNERS AND ARE WICKED and their god has given you over 1000 years to "repent" and yet he'll save you if you're willing to change

Oh! and the part where innocent people die in such Jadist's act? consider those innocent people the Islamic version of "Amalekite Children" and "Canaanite Children"

so Jidad attacks can't be any more wrong than killing Amalekite and Canaanite children to an observer like me

Now let's talk about moral justification to criticise Islam. If someone is about to kill your five year old son and you have a gun, if you will kill that guy then you have no moral justification to criticize any God for killing people because of their sin. How you feel when your son dies is nothing compared to how God feels about sin. He is holy by nature and can not stand sin. Now that Jesus has died, we are no longer culpable to pay for our actions because Jesus already did that. Sin no longer has a hold over us. Jesus taught us to love and because we are Christ like, we must love like him.

I repeat, Don't preach to me

you're getting something wrong here bro

I'm NOT criticising your god here, I'm criticising YOUR HYPOCRISY and so far you've been proving you're a hypocrite

according to their own version of god, you're an Infidel and you deserve anything that's coming, since you have admitted that The DIVINE COMMAND THEORY is ALWAYS valid you have no ground to criticise them


Now it all boils down to who's serving the right God.

exactly!!!

their crime isn't the suicide bombing, it isn't the beheadings, it isn't the forced conversions, it isn't the underage marriages

their crime according to you is that they serve the wrong god

and this hardly holds water because you can say the same about any other religion and adherents of other gods too

So basically, no one has the right to criticise any God. Because if u can ask for the capital punishment on someone who murders your family (sins against you), then don't fault God for doing the same.
Now I don't criticise the suicide bombers because many of them actually believe they are doing it for God. My beef is with Islam as a whole who haven't realized that Jesus death should no longer pay for sin because Jesus has paid it. I really don't hate them, I just pity them. And honestly, I rather have discussions with people like them because they believe in something. Now I ask you, what do you believe in sir? You lot claim there is no God but can't provide a straight forward answer to the question of our existence. It's like you disagreeing 2 + 2 is 4 and yet can't provide an answer. Until you can give me a really good explanation for my existence, i am willing to hold on to the one that makes the most sense to me. I am far more open minded than u think

hopefulLandlord:
actually you should've avoided answering that question if you've really studied morality very well

you can read up a summary of it

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euthyphro_dilemma

its been a blast talking with you


as for your morality question you've been asking, our morality comes from evolution

As social animals humans evolved morality to help us live together in groups. So while the vast majority of humans accept the concept of morality, different groups disagree on what is moral or immoral. The Catholic hierarchy considers artificial contraception to be immoral, most other people, including most Western Catholic laity, see contraception as either moral or morally neutral. The abortion debate has intelligent, rational, honest people disagreeing on the morality of abortion. Pacifists hold all killing is immoral, soldiers would differ.

The morality that some people claim to be "objective" is often what they feel subjectively to be moral.

Humanity and civilization is defined by moral relativism. Each religion brands their own morality. People who are not religious are not anarchists.

Empathy defines morality, even Christian morality. You empathize with Jesus and other Christians. Pretty much every Christian interprets some part of the bible differently based on what "God lays on their heart" but brother that is nothing more than moral relativism. You pick your own truth, it just happens to coincide with most beliefs held by members of one of the 40,000 Christian sects.

Ah. So u believe there is no moral law giver? It just comes from evolution? Ever wondered why animals haven't evolved? I really don't want to get into this argument with you. My experience with atheists has taught Me that it takes the Holy spirit and special grace to convince your lot. You all don't argue to learn but argue to win and look intelligent. So guessing u are a strong believer of the evolution theory? I will advise you to read about the over 1000 faults in that theory.

hopefulLandlord:
my question is

is loving your neighbor good because god commanded you to OR god commanded you to love your neighbour because its good?

It is good because Jesus commanded it. Morality comes from God. Again you didn't answer my question on where u think moral laws come from.

hopefulLandlord:
if you can answer my questions, please do

asking a question as an answer to questions is an attempt as sidestepping the initial question

I have answers to your question BUT I'll withhold it till you answer mine first and that's a sensible thing to do in a debate otherwise it becomes entangled in too many unanswered questions



this is evasive attempt, you've still not answered my questions


I wonder what's so extremely difficult in that question or why does it make our Christians so uncomfortable?

Oh! And as for your your question, loving my enemies is good because God is love. You can't be a child of God without loving. Now answer my question. Where does morality come from? Who decides what is good and what is not?

hopefulLandlord:
yes, who are you? Because on one hand you believe in the divine command theory, same thing they believe in; meaning you saw the slaughter of the amalekites and the Canaanite's Children as "GOOD" because your version of god commanded it but turn around and condemn a Muslim that detonates a bomb in the market place?




They believe Jesus died, I've never met a Muslim who's claimed Jesus didn't die, maybe you can tell me where a Muslim ever made that claim, I'll wait

And about "questionable" character, have you ever wondered why the Jews - who saw Jesus and interacted with him - don't believe in him?

Oh! You that came to the world almost 2000 years later must know better than them (The Jews), isn't it?



Is loving YOUR enemies good?

How is it good? Is it good because Jesus told you to OR Jesus told you cuz its good?

please chose your answer to the above very carefully

You claimed Divine Command Theory is ALWAYS valid

What basis have you then to claim someone carrying out the instructions of their god is bad? Since its also divine command?

And if your god asks you to kill someone, would you do it?



Actually there's been lots of terrorist acts carried out by Christians but I won't want to derail this conversation with that


Don't preach to me


So just like I expected you have NO reasonable point to make except the point I KNEW you would aka.......


Islam is wrong Because THEY SERVE THE WRONG GOD

can you see why Divine Command Theory is dumb?

destruction of Canaan, children and animals is right because MY god commanded it

destruction of Amalekite, children and animals is right because MY god commanded it

God killing 70,000 innocent people because David ordered a census of the people (1 Chronicles 21) is right because MY god did it

when He orders the killing of all the men, women, and children of each city, and the looting of all of value (Deuteronomy 3) its right because MY god commanded it

When He ordered another attack and the killing of all the living creatures of the city: men and women, young, and old, as well as oxen sheep, and asses (Joshua 6) its right because its MY god

when he in Judges 21 ordered the murder of all the people of Jabesh-gilead, except for the virgin girls who were taken, It was right because its MY god

when they wanted more virgins God told them to hide alongside the road and when they saw a girl they liked, kidnap her and forcibly rape her and make her your wife; it is right because MY god commanded it

bashing babies against rocks (Hosea 13:16 & Psalms 137:9) is right because MY god commanded it

like I said, WE are the only ones with the right to criticise any religion

anyone who accepts divine command theory is always right has ceded his/her right to criticise any destructions ordered by other gods or religion because they also believe in that same theory as yours

WE atheists however are moral consequentialist/moral relativist/Humanist etc have that right because we didn't see any Allah bombing himself or Yahweh performing the crusades or ambushing virgins, I did not see Yahweh fighting Iraq

what we see are humans using their books and gods as excuses

Lol. I can see you have had this argument before and you already had a ready made argument. Actually, I was waiting for you to pull out old testament Scriptures because that is and always has been your strongest armour. And the fact you do not know that Muslims don't believe Jesus died just tells me how little you know about Islam. This means you spend all your energy studying the Bible looking for holes. Incase you want prove that Muslims do not believe Jesus died, I created a thread "did Allah help start Christianity?". Check the thread out from my profile and help yourself. Now to the issue at hand.
God commanded the killings of Canaanites and amelekites, blah blah blah. Now I wonder what gives humans the moral justification to give the capital punishment to killers and yet criticise God for killing people who sinned against Him? We as humans classify sin. God doesn't. Sin is sin and the wages of sin is death. I guess you did not bother to look up the history of the Canaanites and amelekites and their wickedness. Painting them as some kind of victims is actually very funny. Now you should realize that not all of them even died. God gave them 400 years to repent. And yet he saved Rahab who was willing to change.
Now let's talk about moral justification to criticise Islam. If someone is about to kill your five year old son and you have a gun, if you will kill that guy then you have no moral justification to criticize any God for killing people because of their sin. How you feel when your son dies is nothing compared to how God feels about sin. He is holy by nature and can not stand sin. Now that Jesus has died, we are no longer culpable to pay for our actions because Jesus already did that. Sin no longer has a hold over us. Jesus taught us to love and because we are Christ like, we must love like him. A harlot was about to be stoned as it would have been done in the old testament and He said, "he without sin, cast the first stone". Now it all boils down to who's serving the right God. Like I said before, I will rather believe the people that were with Jesus day in day out than a prophet who came 600 years later.

hopefulLandlord:
good!

so what basis have you to criticise Islam? since they'll say same about their own version of god?

below is a former quote of yours



so this shows you're a hypocrite to criticise Islam

to prove this beyond doubt I'll paraphrase your words by replacing God with Allah, then see why there's suicide bombing and destructions everywhere

an Islamic suicide bomber would say

Allah is not subjected to man's moral standard. He is the moral standard that we reference. And since He is good, he cannot command anything that is not Good. We are just too limited in out understanding to see all of His commands as good.

your only excuse, just like Sam Harris said when he killed William Laine Craig with these points of mine is that Muslims are worshipping "the wrong god" but who are you to make such a pronouncement?

Who I'm I to make such pronouncement? Well, I'm a guy who would rather believe the close followers of Jesus than a prophet with questionable character who came 600 years after Christ only to claim Christ didn't die. I am a Christian. That means I am supposed to be like Christ. Christ never commanded me to kill anyone. He told us to love even our enemies. This is why u will never see any Christian terrorist sect or Christian suicide bomber. Islamic sects rule the world of terrorism and yet atheists always tend to attack Christianity. Ever wondered why? Cuz THIS IS WHERE THE POWER IS. and it scares you lot.

hopefulLandlord:
do you believe that anything your version of god orders is good?

could you possibly "disagree" with your god on anything?

what's your take on the divine command theory? is it valid?

pick each question one by one and answer, you. can google "Divine Command Theory" if you don't understand it very well yet

thank you

1. Yes.
2. Yes. Cuz am human and won't always understand Him. But His will shall always be done.
3. Yes.

hopefulLandlord:
if you can answer my questions, please do

asking a question as an answer to questions is an attempt as sidestepping the initial question

I have answers to your question BUT I'll withhold it till you answer mine first and that's a sensible thing to do in a debate otherwise it becomes entangled in too many unanswered questions



this is evasive attempt, you've still not answered my questions


I wonder what's so extremely difficult in that question or why does it make our Christians so uncomfortable?

Sorry sir but I don't even know what your question is. I believe I have answered, but if I have not, please forgive me and put them in simple terms for me.

hopefulLandlord:
lol, if you think I'm not facing the topic then you're not so versed in the art of debate

I'm not going to give you the satisfaction of spilling the ace up my sleeve

you're dodging because the answers to my questions would expose the huge level of hypocrisy Christianity and Islam is totally made of

you dodge to fight another day

but if you're not dodging answer my questions

Let me ask you these simple questions, do you believe that anything your version of god orders is good?

could you possibly "disagree" with your god on anything?

what's your take on the divine command theory? is it valid?

God is not subjected to man's moral standard. He is the moral standard that we reference. And since He is good, he cannot command anything that is not Good. We are just too limited in out understanding to see all of His commands as good.

hopefulLandlord:
you don't get it do you?

I'm not roping Christianity in, Christianity is ALREADY IN!!!

Let me ask you 2 simple questions, do you believe that anything your version of god orders is good?

could you possibly "disagree" with your god on anything?

what's your take on the divine command theory? is it valid?

Quick question. Where do you think morality comes from? What determines what is good and what is bad?

aminusanti:
True

Honestly you are not just being dishonest but also deceptive. Just look at how u're twisting statements here and contradicting yourself without even realizing, from ur statement above one can easily know your direction.
i asked u some basic and simple questions related to the topic that i strongly believe any christian can answer but you are afraid to answer them bcus u know what will happen next when u answer but you are here denying it by saying you dont know the answer and at the same time you are making statement that you are sure there are "absolutely NO contradictions in the Gospels"
for anyone to say he/she is sure there are no contradiction in bible he should be able to answer atleast 1 question out of 10 if not all related to his scripture


You people are very funny, i have come to realize this is one of the approach you are using if u want to give excuses. Again n Again you people are not here for answers that u want to hear. How can someone answer your question without addressing jesus stance? No way

There are no clear n straight statement from the lips of jesus saying all the nonsense you people believe in today: dying and rising, begotten son of God and trinity.
Seriously, it is a complete waste of time for anyone to b participating in this kind of discsussion bcus one can never ever proof anything if the ideolody of jesus dying for our sins is not addressed and that what empiree is trying to explain to you people but at the end u will call that diversion, anyways you are on your own


Bcus everyone can see thats why they are telling you now what u are doing...

kindly screenshot or highlight the part that i beat around the bush and put it foward lets see or i ll consider u ato be lying. The good thing is the readers not stupid

That's why u never get & u will never get a satisfactory answer without addressing jesus stance but unfortunately u are not here to understand all that bt to win the arguement

Are we discussing based on assumptions or facts? Again thats why nothing make sense to u


Trust me you will never ever get a satisfactory answer if this is the approach you decided to follow but if you insist then i suggest you open a new thread addressing jesus first as BEGOTTEN SON & rising and dying for sins .

Lol. OK, let's just get this straight. You want us to address the Jesus being the only Son argument. Believe me, I am 101 percent convinced he is. And that will be a back and front argument which might leave either of us unconvinced. That is why I am assuming you are right and that Jesus was just was prophet. We let us look past that and focus on the statement in the Koran. Allah made people think he died and ressurected. Christianity is built on the supposed death and resurrection of Christ. What does this tell u?

twozero:
My guy, I bin following this thread of yours from da first page
I can't lie u, your dishonesty on your debate with aminsamtri is as clear as day.
1- you ask him questions but he cant ask back??
2- you said you sincerely want to know but you go back behind his back and say something different
3-U only want brief answers
4- you never answer his questions he ask u
5- he highlighted contradicting verses from your book which u couldn't repute but you are now saying he didn't answer your questions..
You guys are not sincerely here for what you are asking for. that's all I see

I didn't intend for this to be a debate. I wanted Muslims to clarify the issue and he chose to step up. He asked me a question I honestly do not know the answer to. What do u want me to do? Lie? As for the contradictions he pointed out, I had earlier stated that there are absolutely NO contradictions in the Gospels. But this is not a place to talk about it. It's a diversion I don't want. Any of you can open a thread and tag me so we can talk about that. And finally, I don't go behind his back. This is thread and everyone can see it including him. He started brilliantly. But at a point he started to beat around the bush which made me realize it was a lost cause and he wont end up anywhere. But I kept it going with the thin hope that he will surprise me. But he didn't. That's not my fault. As for the short answers, asked for that so he doesn't devert cuz discussions like this tend to go that way. We aren't arguing who is right. Or if Jesus was a Muslim prophet or the son of God. I have even assumed Muslims are in the right. My question is based on the role Allah played in starting Christianity. And what Jesus ultimately accomplished on earth. And so far, nobody has given me a satisfactory answer.

Binb:
If Jesus showed his follwers that he did not die, by eating food , and they still believed he resurrected, then that is their problem

Of course it is. That's not the argument. The fact is that they believed and went ahead to preach Christianity. Which makes Jesus a failure on earth cuz his closest followers couldn't continue His true message. And Allah has to take part of the blame for not clarifying the situation to them. They thought he died and resurrected beacsue Allah made them think that way.

alBHAGDADI:
I told you aminusanti has no answer. He never had any neither has he answered it in previous pages. His mission his to bore you with long epistle of irrelevancy just to detail the thread off course.

I hereby declare that Allah foolishly aided the rise of Christianity.

Thread close.

Lol. That is the most likely conclusion.

1stCitizen:
The 10%. In fact more than that monthly is helping to change the lives of less privileged members of my society and I am spiritually refreshed each time.

Keep thinking 10% given to charlatans and will improve your life materially or spiritually.

Hmmmm

aminusanti:
Ok now that u have them u can summarize them and prove me wrong as u are claiming? again u are only deceiving yourself if u think u can hide under alBHAGDAdi umbrella thinking I have said nothing to prove u wrong just don't worry I don't care about you guys judgment on this bcus I never expect honest answer to come out from you people, sincere reader will do the judgment for themselves, pple reading are not stupid.

Why does a simple debate have to end this way? Come on. I see you as a friend now, whether we believe the same thing or not. I am actually putting efforts into this because I sincerely care about you and I want you to honestly weigh both arguments so you can decide for yourself. If you honestly put yourself in my shoes, you will see I am not being dishonest. I might be ignorant but definitely not dishonest. I sincerely believe everything I am saying to u.

Binb:
God does what he wills. He does not have to give you or any body else a reason for His actions.
Do you have a problem with that?

I don't. Honestly. But His actions actually made people think Jesus died. And when according you people, He showed himself to his followers to prove to them He didn't buy, people actually thought he had resurrected. Don't you think this supposed death and ressurection gave birth to Christianity?

aminusanti:
Ok then if can find out why u will find answer to ur last query

You can continue to dribbling around if wish by using dis approach dat u are ignorant n am schoolin u and later go back to ur friends albaddadi n co saying different thing. Who do u think u r fooling here pls? Your thread was addressed since in page 1 or 2 of this thread.

you and your boys can decide to agree or disagree if u like I don't care at all, if not for the benefit of the sincere readers I wont waste a second on any1 thats here to mock around. out of respect I took my time to break things down but u are here going with what alBHAGDADI is saying someone that can't even help himself...if u decide to join their party sorry I cant be wasting my time on this kind of dishonest people..

So you won't answer my question because apparently I have Christian friends. Wow. And by the way, I just knew all of them on this thread. Just so you know, for every question you answer, two more spring up. Didn't want to start bringing them up because I was going somewhere. But if you feel you can't answer them anymore, that's OK. Like I said, I do not know why Jesus disguised as a Gardner. I didn't even know he disguised as one.

alBHAGDADI:
He simply has no answer to give. Just watch as he will be back with a talk of how he already answered the question from page one.

If truly he has answered the question, he won't be trying to avoid it as we've seen him do on page 11. He would have simply answered it again or copied it from wherever he claims he placed the answer in the beginning of this thread.

aminusanti is afraid to admit that Allah aided the rise of a religion bigger than his.

Lol. It was fun though.

alBHAGDADI:
@ilynem When I told you in the beginning that aminusanti has no answer to the questions raised in the OP, you probably thought I was joking.

His posts so far have been aimed at derailing or wrongly answering the questions. But am glad that every time he does that, the questions keep staring him in the face unanswered.

Good job ilynem

Lol. Been compiling all the controversies from his reply. I believe it's a lost cause though until he proves me wrong.

felixomor:
The dishonesty has started again.
Even with all the humble listening of ilynem.....
He is still accused of being funny

Hehehehe

Calm down

aminusanti:
Did u just said I CAN'T ask question?
& Am here to teach you?
Try not to play funny here pls

U can quote me when u are ready to answer the question..

Hmmmm. I don't know why he disguised as a Gardner. I didn't even know he disguised as a Gardner. Have you forgotten am an "ignorant Christian"?

aminusanti:
Why was Jesus disguised as a gardener after allegedly being "raised alive"? Who was he afraid of??

You can't answer a question with another. You are teaching me.

seguno2:
Not according to Deuteronomy 14: 22-29.
Have you read the passage?

Abraham paid tithe

Junia:
God didn't instruct Abraham or Jacob to tithe
They paid tithe on their free will

No one is forcing you.

jarmy:
Mat 23:23  "How terrible it will be for you, scribes and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your mint, dill, and cummin, but have neglected the more important matters of the Law: justice, mercy, and faithfulness. These are the things you should have practiced, without neglecting the others.

Do you understand it?

brightalo17:
Read that again and see if there is a question sign at the end which signified it to be a question not an allegation or fact about you.

An unnecessary question. So cuz I fornicate and steal, I can as well not pay tithe?

pennywys:
what did He said about tithe?

Pick up your Bible

seguno2:
When Jesus spoke about it in Matthew 23:23 was He dead and resurrected?
No!
Had he FULFILLED the law by His death and resurrection?
No!!
If a law/contract is FULFILLED, do you need to still work under the law/contract?
No!!!

Tithing came before the law

dearpreye:
There was no way Jesus would have condemned tithing at the time, since it was still the dispensation of the law. The moment He died, all the law was fulfilled. Tithing belongs in the era of the law.

Tithing came before the law.