₦airaland Forum

panpan:
This is the real issue. If the pastor wants to sue, fine. However, this is a civil case and Kemi Olunloyo should not have been arrested and detained over this matter.

Is the pastor the one detaining her? There must be something about the case we don't know. So take your complaints to the court and not the pastor

mrvitalis:
The thing is this the pastor is showing depiration ..there is no how he can deny his influence is not used to keep her in prison...

Deformation is not a criminal act ..its a civil act and can't be sent to prison ..u can only pay damages ...so what's the magistrate doing ..keeping her in prison for 2 weeks

These thing is not over ..the case has not even started ..she might have her facts ...I won't want any pastor do demand for secret hearing tomorrow...

My conclusion is the pastor is just trying to be smart ..bully her into agreeing to out of court settlement... But seriously he is in for a big surprise.....

I know the pastor very well ..I am 98% sure he is fake ...

98% sure. Wow! Looks like you really don't know what it means for someone to defame your character that you have taken years to prove. And trust me, Kemi has absolutely no proof. Her post about him claimed she got a letter from his church member that he was having an affair with Iyabo. An unknown church member for that matter. Did she investigate if this person was actually a member? No. Did she even investigate the whole case? No. And she posted the news on Instagram with no proof. That's madness. And pastors can't win in this world. If he keeps quiet and does nothing, he is guilty. If he acts and charges her to court to prove his innocence, he is unforgiven. Hia

Sheikwonder:
Regarding your novel, sure.

You talk about "raising questions until you are 100% sure of what you believe in". I'm afraid that is impossible. Impossible because in matters of religion, one cannot be 100% sure. This speaks to the subjective nature of religion which is why there are different interpretations to the same religious texts and by extension different denominations all claiming to worship a God who is not the "Author of confusion". Ironic. This also explains why the religious leaders tell you that you can only understand through "faith". Faith however is relative and subjective as well. Hence, to believe that there was a talking donkey, you need "faith" despite all the empirical evidence as well as observing donkeys from the inception of time proving otherwise. You need "faith" to believe that "God is love" despite his claims that he created evil. You need "faith" to believe that you can "move mountains" when all the common sense in the world will tell you that there is no such thing.


Jesus saying "Love your neighbor as yourself" is first of all, a repetition of ideas. Repetition because he wasn't the first to espouse the idea. That credit goes to Confucius who initially coined the "Golden Rule" some hundreds of years before : Do unto others as you would like them to do unto you. A rule that was plagiarized by Jesus albeit unintentionally. So you can as well say "if all Nigerians obeyed Confucius's rule how would our country be"?

Regarding the testimony of the apostles as proof of Jesus' resurrection almost sounds convincing - until you remember that Peter himself denied Jesus before. Besides, a person strongly deluded or brainwashed will easily die for a cause even though his conviction is faulty. You only need to look at the thousands of suicide bombers who honestly believe that virgins await them in the heavens above and will stand by their convictions regardless of threat of death. I'm afraid but those testimonies only prove that the disciples sincerely believed in a resurrected Christ. It doesn't prove that Christ resurrected and as before, it takes "faith" to believe in that.

I like how you admit that Gerd Ludemann believes that the disciples may not have been sure of what they saw. That is probably the best we can say about their testimonies, they were not sure........

Well, i think someone who is wiling to die for a faith is hundred percent sure of it. Dont get me wrong, you can be hundred percent sure of something and still be wrong. I am not trying to convince you that Christianity is the right way to go, i am just giving you a path to explore. One i am still exploring. Trust me, I have a lot of questions that I need answers to and unfortunately we are thought not to ask too much questions and just believe everything hook, line and sinker. But I am not buying that. I ask a lot of questions.
Now regarding Peter denying Jesus, it only strengthens my case. A guy who wasn't willing to die for with Christ before His death all of a sudden is willing to go to the grave for him after his resurrection. What about James the brother of Jesus, who was never a believer of the ministry of Jesus, all of a sudden after the resurrection became a strong apostle. Its unfair to compare them to suicide bombers because no one took all these apostles and brain washed them. They obviously all saw something which they believed was the risen Christ.
Now the fact that Jesus wasn't the first to give the golden rule doesn't change the fact that he gave this rule. That and so many other teachings that can shape us to be better people in life. And finally, you confuse Faith with Blind faith. Faith cometh by hearing and hearing the word of God. And hearing isn't just listening to one money grabbing "pastor" talk, it involves your own personal research which about God which you are free to do.
And no. Faith is not subjective. Cuz many people interpret a thing differently doesn't mean there is no proper interpretation. You can't go to court and argue that the law is subjective. The law was made to be interpreted a particular way. Interpretation of the law in your own way won't hold water.
Now, I refuse to believe that everything we have now came out of nothing. So this means there has to be an external creator (God) and so far, I believe the Christian God has the best arguments and I want to believe in Him, I should believe in the Bible which is His word. Hence, I will have to believe in a talking donkey.

Sheikwonder:
ILY. I'm finding my path. It's tough to be a contrarian in our country today especially when your views are unpopular and antireligious. I am yet to come out completely as being irreligious due to the backlash. I am irreligious in principle , albeit not an atheist. I am finding my way through self-enlightenment. I have monitored your posts and you seem to be a Champion for Christianity. Good for you. As you know well I was like you once. It's however a wonderful thing to have your consciousness raised, when that happens you begin to see organized religion in a different light.

I hope you get your consciousness raised some day.....


P. S: Regarding Arsenal, I am tired. But I shall remain loyal.....

Champion for Christianity? Nah! Not even close. And trust me, I am just like you. Finding my own path. But anytime I have a question, I seek answers. Gerd Ludemann a famous atheist theologian who studied the new testament extensively came to an interesting conclusion about the apostles of Jesus. He wasn't sure they saw a risen Christ but he was sure they saw something. Something that made them believe Christ was actually risen because they took this belief to their bloody deaths and not one of them changed their testimony.
Now compare this to today's Christians and put a gun on the head of any Christian and ask him or her to deny their faith. 80% of Christians and "pastors" will. Why is it different today? Cuz we aren't even sure of our stand. The apostles where so sure of what they saw and that is why they were ready to die. So how can we be sure? By doing exactly what you are doing. Finding your own path. Raising questions, until you are 100% sure of what you believe that you can even die for it. But just be sure to seek answers in the right place. Its one thing to find your path, its another to find the right path and its my prayer you do.
PS: Jesus says, Love thy God and love your neighbor as yourself. If all Nigerians obeyed this simple rule, how do you think our country will be? And also I was writing a novel for our church website about atheism. I was working on a clock so I kinda rushed it. Wasn't good enough though. Maybe I will revisit it and write it better. Will love for you to see it.

Sheikwonder:
Cc MZlady39, Wilgrea7, felixomor, engineerboat Doctoralien, enshy, Junia, Tosyne2much, Kondomatic, SirWere, Ilynem, Hahn

Wow! My friend what happened to you? We used to call you pastor Chris! Anyway, nice write up. You are still an awesome writer. But I will have to disagree with you on a lot of things. Maybe we will have time to discuss personally, but I will just say this. We judge the law by what the law says and not how people interpret it. We need to say same about Religion. As a Christian, I am a follower of Jesus, but I am not a yardstick to judge Christianity. Jesus is. If you can't fault the teachings of Jesus, you can't fault Christianity. At the end of the day, we have a lot of crooks using Christianity to make millions for themselves. We have a lot of people who misinterpret the Bible all to sooth themselves. It was done during the time of slavery, it is being done now. This is no fault of Jesus or his teachings, but how people have twisted it for their own gain. Religion might have outlived its usefulness, but Christianity hasn't. Try reading the Bible, you will be shocked to see a lot of solutions to your problems (and no, the solution is not prayer). As for Arsenal, no solution in sight my bro

drtee247:
Very soon, you guys will all embrace polyGamy..Alhamdulillah for making me a Muslim

Chai! I piry you

hopefulLandlord:
As an atheist, I have a question: Could a few muslims here provide me with a few of their favorite verses from the Quran? Ones that you find inspirational and which lead to reverence for the book and the prophet? I read the Quran some years ago, but don't remember much, and I gave up on a recent attempt because the first few suras seemed to be mainly condemnations of infidels...I'm sure there's better stuff in there :-)

Thanks!

Try Surah 5:32. But then again, don't read 33 cuz it talks about crucifying and cutting off limbs. Just stick with 32.

The Koran is the most complete book ever written and the words are so good they can only be from Allah, blah blah blah and so they say. Fortunately, I had known this point raised by the OP a long time ago. How they manage to twist all these to "religion of peace" is beyond human comprehension.

I really don't know what to say to this. What is happening to nairaland?

Yusuf54:
....Who would know much about who Jesus was between Mary,Jesus Mother and His Disciples and show me the Verse where Mary called his Son,Jesus the begotten Son of God? For Someone to have been filled with Holy Spirit means the Holy spirit dwelled in him/her,Are u saying the Holy Spirit didn't dwell with these People;Abraham,Jacob,Moses,Ezra,Elijah,Enoch,Zechariah ?..For someone to have been filled with the Holy Spirit means the Holy Spirit dwelled with him/her and Luke 11 vs 13 made us know that the Holy Spirit can be obtained through Prayer and People have even been Praying to God before the existence of Jesus Christ on earth,:..The Authors of the New testament dont really know Much about Jesus,let me take you to the Gospel of Matthew 27 vs 44,Matthew says two Criminals taunted Jesus while on the cross But Luke 23 vs 39-42,says Only one Criminal taunted Jesus.,,When Jesus Had given up on the cross, Matthew 27 vs 54,says Centurion words after Jesus had given up was TRULY THIS MAN WAS THE SON OF GOD, But Luke 23 vs 47,Centurion said TRULY THIS MAN WAS RIGHTEOUS....say something on these

You know why we deride Catholics for "honouring" Mary? She was a righteous Woman, no doubt. Probably the most righteous of her time, but she was just an envelop in which a letter was delivered with. When you take out the letter, you don't keep the envelop. The envelope has performed its duty. Mary's duty was to be the instrument in which Jesus came on earth. Not taking anything away from her, but that was all she was. Now, you should realise that the gospels are according to Matthew, Luke, Mark and John. And these took into account probably 10% of his early life when he was with His mother and 90% of the 3 years of His prophet hood. The gospels weren't concentrated on Jesus growing up but mostly on his ministry which was most important. Mary is human and I believe many times she forgot Jesus' real purpose for being born. Sometimes she must have been caught in euphoria of "my son" when in the real sense she was just an envelope to deliver the Son of God to earth. An example is when Jesus at 12 got lost and they found him the temple. Her motherly instincts kicked in because she was all full of worry for "her son", but what did Jesus say to her? "Why are you searching for me? Don't you know I will be in my father's House?" Luke 2:49.
So in conclusion, if there was a gospel according to Mary, maybe we will see her call him by that name. But there were little recorded conversations between Mary and Jesus or Mary and any other person about Jesus.
As for the Holy spirit, there is a difference between being filled by the Holy spirit and carrying it permanently. Anyone who performs miracles gets filled by the holy spirit when he prays for it. But in this new dispensation, being a believer is the only ticket you need. Once you are a believer you carry the spirit of God in you. It dwells in you forever. You are still confusing the words "with" and "in". In the whole of the old testament, whenever you see a righteous man, you will see " God was with him", never "God was in him". That's why 1 Corinthians 6:19 says that our bodies are the temple of the Holy spirit.
Let me now break it down. The spirit was with them before the death and resurrection. If they wanted to perform wonders, they pray for the spirit to be in them and the spirit goes in them and performs wonders through them but does not dwell in them. But now we carry the spirit wherever we go. Communicating with the spirit at all times. We now enjoy that special relationship.
Now for your supposed " contradictions " in the Bible. I was debating with a Muslim on nairaland some time ago and he kept telling me about weak and strong hadiths. So I decided to take a look on how these hadiths are ranked in the order of strong to weak. So I found out something. Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim are probably your strongest hadiths. But you will agree with me that both Hadiths do not carry the same record. They may carry similar but never the same. Have you wondered why we have four and not one Gospel? If the four carried the same things, then we could have as well thrown three away and just kept one. You people tend to judge the Bible with the Koran and I have to say that's not fair. You believe that the Koran is the perfect word of God as revealed to Muhammad (we will debate this later) but the Bible is not just the word of God, but it is also a history Book, it contains poetry, its a manual for life and you will be surprised that any question about present day life, the solution can be found in the Bible.
Now for the fact that it is a historical account, the historical parts are human written like your Hadiths. You can't have four people give the same account of an event and expect it to be exact. It is not possible. Whether they are eye witnesses or not. But even though accounts might differ in insignificant details, the message of all four gospels is the same and that is the importance of the gospels. There are parts of the Bible that are not historical accounts but clearly God inspired writings for our admonition like the letters of Paul and the revelations of John the beloved.
Please let me know if you made sense of my long explanation. Next question.

Yusuf54:
..The Gospel of John 3 vs 16 that u quoted Says For God do love the World that he gave his only Son, BUT according to Jeremiah 31 vs 9,Ephraim is God FirstBorn and also in Exodus 4 vs 22,Jacob is God First born, My question is,Who is the Only son of God among Ephraim,Jacob and Jesus? ....U also said that Jesus Christ Prophecied the coming of d Holy Spirit,BUT the Holy Spirit had been existing before the Birth and the coming of Jesus christ according to the following Scriptures : LUKE 1 VS 15,JOHN was filled with the Holy Spirit before and after the birth of Jesus, Luke 1 vs 67, Zechariah was filled with Holy Spirit, Luke 2 vs 25,Says Simeone was filled with Holy Spirit, and Luke 11 vs 13 made us to know that Holy Spirit can only be obtained thru prayer,..The Holy Spirit had been existing before the existence of Jesus Christ on earth

I really should warm myself up for you. Lol. Let's look at exodus 4:22. Looking at the context, it was God sending moses to Pharaoh. What did the verse say?
And you will say to Pharaoh, ‘Thus says Yahweh, Israel is my firstborn son; 4:23 and I say to you, Let my son go that he may serve me, but if you refuse to let him go, then I will surely kill your firstborn son’.”
Now that verse isn't talking about Jacob as a person but the people of Israel as a group. God was trying to say that Israel is his special people, the people He has chosen not that Jacob (as in the man) is His first born son. So he is referring to the people of Israel as a whole. Now let's look at Jeremiah 31: 9. Again context is very important. What does the verse say?
"They shall come with weeping, and with supplications will I lead them: I will cause them to walk by the rivers of waters in a straight way, wherein they shall not stumble: for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn."
Now let us recall that Joseph had two sons. Manasseh and Ephraim. Manasseh was the first born but Jacob bestowed the blessing of the first born on Ephraim. This is God just confirming the first sonship of Ephraim. Even though Manasseh came first, Ephraim is my first born because Israel bestowed the blessings of first born on him.
David is even called the firstborn too. But that is taken as preeminence, just a sign that David has a special place. God called him the first born and said he is exalted above all kings.
What does this tell us, the term firstborn is used in the Bible mainly to show special status to some group of people or persons. Whether it be Israel over all other tribes, Ephraim over Manasseh or David over other Kings.
Now, no other person was called the "begotten son of God". This alone was given to Jesus.
Now talking about Holy spirit. Of course the Holy spirit was on earth, but it never dwelled inside us. John got filled with the Holy spirit but it never dwelled inside him. Jesus prophesy was that the holy spirit will not only be with us, but it will dwell inside us. Let's look at John 14:16-17:
16] And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

[17] Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
Notice the last line of verse 17. But ye know him (that is they know Him already, He is nothing strange). For he dwelleth with you ( present tense. It means the holy spirit is already dwelling with them), and shall be in you. (Future tense. That means even though he dwells with them he is not in them. So the promise is that He shall be in us.) What's the difference you might ask? The holy spirit is God's working force. In the old dispensation, God worked through His spirit. But now, we are carriers of God's spirit. Its in us. Once we are born again and we ask for His spirit, it comes and dwells in us. And trust me, that's a wonderful experience because Satan can't come near a man who carries the spirit of God in him.
PS: I am actually scared of your next question, but bring it on.

Yusuf54:
...Pls go on My brother,am ready to learn from you

Lol. I am also hoping to learn from you. So first let us talk about the divinity of Jesus hense the trinity.
The father, the Son and the Holy spirit are one in Being but three in person. What does that mean? A being is who you are and a person is what you are. As a Being, you are Human but as a person you are Yusuf54.
Now I know you probably have an Imam or a teacher you respect a lot. As a person, he is Higher than you in the sense that he will tell you what to do and you will do it most times without question. But as a being, you are equal because just as he is Human, you too are human. Putting it better, you are equal in essence or substance but not equal in role (in the sense that he tells you what to do).
Now let's look at the Jesus and the Father. They are one (or equal) in being in the sense that they are both God. Just as the father is God, so is the son. But they are not equal (or one) in person. That is why you hear Jesus saying things like "my father is greater than me". Because it is Jesus' role to be submissive to the father. He answers to the father just as you answer to your Imam. And the Holy spirit answers to the both of them. So Jesus is the son of God (meaning son of the Father) and he is God meaning that he has the same substance or essence as the father.
Now when Jesus came on earth he took a human form. The first Bible verse I memorized was John 3:26. And it was just of recent I knew how rich and explanatory that verse is.
For God so loved the world that He gave His only son that whosoever believes in Him (the Son) shall not perish but have everlasting life.
Remember I said the son's role is to be submissive to the Father, so it was the father's will to send the son to come on earth in human form. On earth Jesus took the role of a prophet and a servant of the father, doing the will of the father. Hence when he was praying he said " not my will but let thy will be done ". He took up the role of a servant cuz the Father sent Him. He took up the role of a prophet because he delivered the Father's message, prophesied of the coming of the Holy spirit and did many miracles. And at the end, when he died, he took on the role of the saviour. Taking our sins on his shoulders and dying on the cross for us. And finally, resurrected on the third day. And now he has ascended into heaven to be with the Father.
Did I make things clear or did I just blab? Be honest

Yusuf54:
...U Mean Jesus is a Servant of God, Son of God,Prophet of God and also at the Same time God...hmmmmmmmmm...that's funny

Why is it funny? I will have this discussion with you, but sometimes to learn, you have to unlearn. Yes you have been thought Islam probably since you were born, but you can't judge Christianity from the angle of Islam. You will get it wrong. So if you promise to have this discussion with an open mind, then we will go on and I will explain to you why he is all

hardeycute:
you won't just understand, a Muslim can become an atheist, deist or agnostic but to convert to Christianity is a difficult thing to materialise. We have many convertee who lags in Quran understanding her

So why is this so? Can you explain?

hardeycute:
its quite impossible to see a Muslim with a good knowledge in the Quran to convert to Christianity unless its for a material gain.There are many holes to pick in the bible to the Quran

And why don't you take out compulsion from your religion let's see how your fair eh? And you say it's impossible to see a Muslim with good knowledge of the Koran? I give you Nabeel Quireshi. Google his name. His knows the Koran and the Hadiths more than any of you and your imams put together.

Yusuf54:
....U must be a Knowledgeable Christian,Pls is Jesus God or a Prophet or Son Of God or Servant of God? Pls use Bible scriptures to back ur answer

Is there anything limiting him from being all of them?

lfleak:
Lol... I keep laughing at your jokes...
I cant copy and paste because I dont know the TYPE of bible u use... it contains different content in different bible, how ridiculous!
like I said, watch ACADIP( what!??! you said ACADIP without source? am done with you for that)

David wood is as ignorant as you...sitting in docket and spoofing trash as you are doing here...
like I keep saying... HOLY QURAN IS THE MOST PERFECT BOOK EVER TO BE CREATED!

Peace!

I dare you to bring one video of David wood and refute any of his claims. I am done with this discussion. I get into debates not to win but to learn. And from the look of things, you have nothing to teach me. Peace.

lfleak:
well, well, am glad you headed same way I expected you to...
funny thing is what..? you quickly went to do a research and failed woefully... lol.. you really mean the bolded..? I pity the mass christians...
I should tell you more about those ones you listed too... but since you couldn't defend yours.. I guess I can't waste my time anymore with you...am really done with you

you want to learn more about the flaws of the bible and perfection of the Quran... go through some ACADIP videos online..

Peace!

All I am asking you is Quote. If you must copy and paste, do. I want to see the quote so I can explain. But I can see you aren't ready. You keep watching those ACADIP videos that lie without sources. Let me give you a piece of advice. I can call many names, hundreds of them, but let me just give you one. Go see David Wood on YouTube. Watch him expose your Koran by quoting authentic Islamic sources. So you can see the flaws in your Koran.
Peace.

lfleak:
You have failed to explain what the error is..? and thats the bible you rely on and use daily.. felix!

mind you, u choose to listen to what you want and hear only what you want to agree...

you can watch some ACADIP show and see how your bible is being flawed with error... if you cant give me a good explanation of the samuel 13:1 then, i guess u are off!

Funny thing is, I know the verse you are talking about. Its about the age and the years of reign of King Solomon and I know the controversy you are trying to point out which is really really lame by the way. But I need you to quote it, then I will educate you on the problem. Then after we will talk about how the sun sets on murky water according to you Koran and how Alexander the great was a Muslim. And oh! How Allah uses shooting starts as missiles to shoot demons that are coming to heaven to spy on him. Your book sir, is a Joke.

ollah2:
Muhammad fought defensive wars. He did what was instructed to Him by God hence he was the last prophet. Muhammad was sent to Mankind. Jesus was sent only to people of Isreal.

Regarding Saudi Arabia, it is a Muslim country and not a secular country. Are there Mosques in Vatican city? Aren't Muslims shrinked to the bearest minimum in the city?

The bible is laced with inciteful passages. I'm wondering why you couldn't debunk any of this lines. I'm also wondering why you couldn't answer a simple question he asked.


Islam has been in existence for over 200 centuries, how come terrorism birthed some 20 years ago?


According the FBI, the definition of terrorism is the unlawful use of force or violence against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives. Due to this definition, it’s safe to say that that all mass shootings that happened fall under this category. Between the year 1982 to 2017, there have been 86 mass shootings or massacres. Of these attacks, only four of the attacks were carried out by Muslims. 94 percent of these attacks have been carried out by non-Muslims. The largest percentage of attackers were white males and were male war veterans returning back to U.S soil with political or social motivation. This is white terrorism. Would you be surprised if I told you that Muslims make up the some of the percentage of terrorist attacks. A study carried out by the University of North Carolina in 2013 showed that less than 0.0002 percent of Americans killed since 9/11 were killed by Muslims. And to add on to this, only 0.0007 percent of Syrian refugees are likely to pose a violent threat.



So what should we take from this? It is up to you to decide what this all means to you. If you have already decided by the end of this that there is still a problem with Islam, I can’t force you what to think. I have given you my argument, it’s up to you to interpret it. But, regardless whether or not you believe that Islam is the cause of terrorism, statistics don’t lie. We need to end this islamophobic culture (not just in the United States). We need to look past the fear that we hold in order to understand the prevalence of this problem. We need to educate ignorant people who hold their fear close to their heart and show them what true Islam is. I, myself, am working on figuring that out. My hope is that people keep looking for ways to expand minds and hearts and look at everyone as equals. Not separate, but whole.

Reading your post, I can the you are a honest and reasonable bloke. But let's not shy away from the truth. Talking of the Vatican, mosques aren't banned in the Vatican. Do you know there are no schools for kids, no eateries, no airports or stadiums? Its not cuz these things are banned. Its simply because there is absolutely no land space at all to have all these things. As a Muslim u can enter the Vatican, you can stand on the road side and say your prayers and no one will bat an eyelid. Can I do the same in Saudi Arabia? As a Christian, I am not even allowed to step my foot in Mecca! Is that tolerance
As for terrorism starting a few years ago, you and I know Muslims have been killing in the name of Allah since time in memorial. I keep asking, how did Islam spread? Through the word or through the sword? Did groups of Muslim go from country to country preaching the good news of Allah or did they go to war with them and force them to convert? How did don fodio do it? The only reason why it is called "terrorism" now is due to tighter international laws. You can't just go and invade another country like it was done back then. I say your religion is not a religion of peace, you say it is a religion of peace but people who kill misinterpret the Koran. So I ask you. What is the difference between a religion that is not a religion of peace and one that is a religion of peace but sounds like a violent religion? There is no difference. Both will have people killing in the name of the religion. My brother, until you admit that there is something actually wrong with your religion or its teachings, you can't solve the problem. I'm currently at the North and I see children everywhere with no education walking around either begging or doing manual labour. I admit we have this problem in the south too, but here in the north, it looks like the norm. All I see are vulnerable children that can be later used to cause havoc in the name of religion. All you have to do is quote Surah 9 to them and they are carrying guns already.
As for the statistics up there, I with raise my hand and say Muslims aren't the only ones that kill. Even though I prefer you had used a statistics gotten from Nigeria and not US. Christians kill too and other religions, but how many Christians kill in the name of Christianity? Religion is a powerful force that shapes our nature and behavior as human beings and when a religion sounds like it permits killing of people for their beliefs then it is a horrible prospect.
Muhammad is the pattern of conduct for Muslims and sorry to say, "love" is not the first word that comes to my mind when it comes to Mohammed. He was even commanded by Allah not to keep Christians and Jews as friends and they should find in him hardness. All these passages don't scream tolerance. As long as that Koran is still there, I am afraid we will still have this problem of intolerance from Muslims.

lfleak:
tell me your pastor is using the early manuscript...lol the argument is old... I laugh at christianity...you have been on the offensive since yesterday, and I made sure I defended all... now I bring you just one... you said its old..lol... just swerve...

https://49.media.tumblr.com/0c86d42a690fccc925159a662dae3142/tumblr_n51hmrNMrJ1tyrw5uo1_400.gif

You don't get the point. With the manuscripts available, errors or changes like you Muslim claim will be spotted and corrected. But Alas! None has been. Pick another argument. If you want to argue with me from my Bible, quote the scripture and make your point like I have been doing with your Koran. I am waiting.
PS: I have been listening to two of your greatest teachers Nadir Zaik (who is a joke) and Ally Shibir (who I really really do respect, even though he gets it wrong most times) and none of them bring up this Bible has been corrupted argument. Why? Because it is stale and has been debunked. So please, talk of something else.

lfleak:
Lol.. you should ask why i didnt quote it..

yea, they have entirely diff contents.. the bible has over 100 varieties, even catholics have theirs....there is only one holy and perfect Quran... do what I said and get back here..

Yawn! This argument is old. I have told you we have the earliest manuscripts available to us. And each word in the Bible can be traced to the root word in the manuscripts. Manuscripts that were in existence even before the birth of your prophet. If you are willing to quote it and prove your point, then say something else.

lfleak:
Ooo libtard! nothing will ever get into your skull!
the bolded, I only expantiated for you libtard!.. but since you have decided to be deaf, dumb and dead to my explanation... it looks you are not willing to give up your man-edited bible... can you please open up First Samuel Chapter13... verse 1.. on KJV, NKJV, RSV, NIV and any other one you have and laugh a bit at yourself.. I have over 20 more...

meanwhile you can watch an indisputable video here https://www.nairaland.com/3677741/mathematical-miracles-holy-quran-must

Expanded on what? You have explained nothing. She was called sister of Aaron and daughter of Amran. That title goes to Miriam and not Mary. And you have explained nothing.
If you wanna make a point, make it. Stop sending me to read passages of the Bible. Whenever I want to refer to the Koran, I always quote it. So please, do the same.

lfleak:
[Quran 19:28] O sister of Haroun! your father was not a bad man, nor, was your mother an unchaste woman.

"Sister of Harun" must be seen in figurative sense. Why did they call her "Sister of Harun"? Why didn't they call her "Sister of Musa", because Musa is the older brother of Harun and usually the oldest one would be mentioned.

I like to remember to the hadith of our holy prophet who said to Imam Ali (s): Anta minni bimanzilati Haruna min Musa. You are to me in the position as Harun was to Musa

The best creation in the world is Prophet Muhamad (pbuh). Second is Imam Ali (s)

"Sister of Harun" can be seen as "Sister of the second", which means "you are the second best women". It is a clue to us that there is a better women in the world than Maryam (s). This best women is Fatima (s)

Im sure I was not able to make it clear,..
And BTW its a lineage of a huge family.. Mind you If you are still confused then u should know you got confusion from your Bible, because all Jewish names of past prophets where all derived from the Arabic base..

Wow! What a logic. Now you have changed your logic. You first said there was another Harun and now its sister of the second? Or whatever rubbish you came up with. See your pathetic attempt to justify the clear stupidity of the Koran. You still haven't explained why she was called Daughter of Imran though. And Jewish names derived from Arabic base? I really need to stop arguing with you. You ate really an ignorant man.

JaaizTech:
Lets just take the bolded part of your response in the light of Quranic and biblical verses. Let us judge by what is in the text of the Quran & Bible. It is all here with evidences for you to see:

1.Bible: "Dont think i come to bring peace to this earth but a SWORD. matt 10:34
Quran: "We have sent you(Muhammad) as a mercy to whole humanity.

2. Bible: Those that refuse to accept me as their king bring them and SLAUGHTER them.Luke 19:27.
Quran: "Let there be no compulsion in religion".Baqara2:256, "You shall hav your religion and i shall have my religion.ch109:6

3. Bible: "Sell your coats and buy yourself a SWORD" Luke22:36
Quran: "Whoever kills an innocent soul it is as if he has killed mankind entirely. And whoever saves a soul - it is as if he has saved mankind entirely." Ma'ida ch5:32
“ Whoever kills a person(non muslim) having treaty with muslims will never smell the fragrance of Paradise. Hadith Sahih Bukhari Vol4 3166


Be sincere, God may shower his mercy on you.

Hahahahahahahahahahaha. What a weak attempt. We all know Jesus was the most peaceful man that ever lived. And there you are quoting a parable like it was a command from Jesus.
How many people did Jesus kill? Zero. How many people did he rape? Zero. How many people did he enslave? Zero. In fact he willingly gave himself to die. When he was arrested Peter cut the ear of one of the soldiers and what did Christ do? He healed the soldier. Healed a man coming to arrest him to be killed!
I don't have time to explain those verses for you because I have explained them so many times but you Muslims have eyes but cannot see.
Now the peaceful verses of the Koran comes at the beginning of Mohammed's prophet hood. He was of the minority and so he preached Peace. Have your religion and I will have mine. That was a cowardly Muhammad trying not to get killed. And this is how Muslims behave when they are in the minority in any country. They preach peace. But as Muhammad grew in power, the messages of the Koran became more violent. Surah 9 was the last verse to be revealed in the Koran and go see how violent it is. Muslims get more violent when they are in the majority. See Saudi Arabia. Can anyone have a freedom of religion in Saudi Arabia? Christians are only allowed as temporary workers and can only worship withing their homes. They are never allowed to practice their faith openly. What will happen to me if I stand outside in Saudi Arabia and start praying? I will get arrested or killed.
But in the US where Muslims are less than five percent, they are allowed to build mosques and practice their worship. Please, stop cherry picking verses and deal with the problem your religion. Better still throw your Koran in the trash.

lfleak:
wow! Lol..Miriam is a..? Muslim or Jewish name..?

Miriam is Jewish. She was sister of Aaron. Read the Bible ya?

lfleak:
when I talk of classified info... Its won't be revealed to the public.. But the intelligent among the masses should know the obvious..

Lol..see the way you just keep disgracing ur self... Comparing a Muslim name to a Christian name to suite your self..like I said get a hardcopy and free urself from ignorance...
If you don't know; Maryam literally means: maidservant of Allah(Set)..
Imran is a great family that produced sets of prophet, it also has a chapter in the Quran... Suratul Al- Imran (The family of Imran) that is chapter 2... You can look it up..

You cant stand the arguments you start... You will always shift to another points when you know you already loosed out..

Ooo... You are smarter than your creator... Looks so...

Yea..I awaits you to shift away to another points...you have shifted 9 times since yesterday..

Oh please! Amran is Jewish while Imran is Arabic just like Abraham is Jewish and Ibrahim is Arabic. So Imran is a family that produced prophets, how many did it produce? Isn't it obvious? Let me break it down for you.
Mary is called Maryam in Arabic.
There is a sister of Moses and Aaron by the name of Miriam.
Allah thought this Miriam was the same Maryam the mother of Jesus and hence called her sister of Aaron.
And just so you know, there is absolutely no proof that Mary is from a priestly family. In fact the Angel Gabriel said her son will take the throne of his father David and this means that she is actually from the lineage of Judah! She had no brother called Aaron (Harun) and her father was not Amran (Imran) but Joachim.
And as for me running away from arguments? There is nothing else to argue. I have already established that your Koran is a violent book and war cry to you Muslims to spill blood. And you blaming the west for all the Islamic terrorists is just a weak attempt I can't even start arguing with you. I guess all the terrorist attacks (even the recent one in London) was also done by the west? And you expect me to believe you have access to classified info. Please, I am just pointing out how much of a joke you Koran is by showing you it doesn't know the difference between Maryam and Miriam.

mni7:
what of quran 5 34

And what about Koran 5:34?

lfleak:
Well u finally succumb..
You headed same way.. All xtians head when dey loose out an argument.. Raising abusive words!...

Read history and provide proof to all you said...
Secondly... You see why I said you should get an hardcopy Quran..? It explains more in form of tafsir below every page... Get a Hard copy Quran with translation and open to page 404... Suratul maryam ayat 28..below the page it is written:

(V.19:28) This Harun (Aaron) is not the brother of Musa(Moses), but he was another pious man at the time of maryam..

You see your ignorance has been leaked, their are so many more examples illustrated at the bottom of every page of a translated Quran..but you rely on the softcopy that just conveys a very little meaning...
Anybody with a translated hard copy can testify to what is up there...
You see where you loosed out..?

Next, I don't need much time to proof to you, the west are backing the islamophobia agenda...the Syria govt are surely aware.. The Nigerian govt are also aware of all ties of book boys but such info are highly classified as it takes very careful steps to confront them...
For one.. Varieties of weapons owned by daesh after Iraqi force displaced their base was found to be made by the US...among many more revelation.. So u expect every info to be publicized..?

Lol version of the Bible makes things clearer..?? Ooo you just shot your self on the head... List the ones you have and let me quickly naked you...be fast..

You are talking of classified information and yet you have possession to this info? Bravo!
And brother, you just shot yourself on the foot! Let me laugh a bit. If really that hard copy Koran you have said Aaron was another pious man in the time of Mary, then you should throw that Koran in the trash. First and for most, There is no record of Mary having a brother called Aaron. Secondly I will take you to you Koran. Koran 66:12 called Mary the daughter of Imran. According to my Bible, Moses and Aaron had a sister called Miriam. And you know the name of their father? Amran!
Now, Mary is Islam is maryam! Do you see where this confusion is coming from? Your Allah confused Maryam with Miriam the sister of Moses and Aaron! Mary had no brother called Aaron and her father was not Amran (Imran) but Joachim. I am smatter than Allah cuz I could put all these together and he couldn't. What a pity!

lfleak:
i love the way you argue.. you really fall into my reach everytime... here we go..

According to your western democracy, you don't take something without proof, show me the proof that Muslim Leaders are sponsoring the terrorists including Daesh... I have enough evidence ranging their weapon source to their caught members and also their spoils..

Islam spread through Jihad..? your evidence will be welcomed.. Allah (SWT) himself spreads islam, whlst its you spreading and looking at all angles for members by preaching everywhere you go... despite so, Islam still has more population than other religions... (Mind you, It has been reported by The Prophet (SAW) that islam started from a small number and will disseminate by to the small number, blessings to whosoever is still practising islam)..

ISLAM A RELIGION OF PEACE IS MENTION NUMEROUS TIMES IN THE QURAN, check the hardcopy quran and stop searching with an android phone... but, the real meaning of islam is SUBMISSION TO THE WILL OF GOD, while it LITERAL meaning is PEACE...

Quote this part out It called Mary the sister of Aaron for heaven's sake. Those two lived about 1400 years apart! ... c'mon yu aint arguing with an amateur...always drop your words with quote..

Lol, nice you can get the untouched hebrew bible, get a good hebrew bible and a translator.. I will tell you verses that have been replaced.. lol alot of them, dont even dere me on that..

The bible isnt changed..? LOL, tell me the bible you are using KJV..? NKJV? IJV?NJV?LJV?MJV?UJV? lol... so many of them.. download any 3-4 versions you want and let me rip you up with killer verses...like I said before get a hardcop quran with translation if you are ready to debate.. I have android Quran and I know the difference..

Common try to browse the meaning of Bible..? It means just BOOK, The word HOLY is added to make it HOLY BIBLE.. as any palestine or isreali..

As always, am waiting..

I have just realized I am arguing with an ignorant Muslim who doesn't even know the Koran and the history of your religion. Allah spread Islam? This so laughable! So Islam wasn't spread by the sword? Muslims didn't conquer countries and enforce Islam on them? Really? I won't even go far. I will just drop one name and that is Usman Dan fodio.
So oga, about your west sponsoring Isis and other terrorist groups, if you sitting in naija can investigate and come up with solid proof, then why has other agencies with all their intelligence not discovered this? And if they have, why has no one been arrested? And why is it always islamist terrorist groups? Why not another religion? The Jews and Christians live in peace. Christians and Bhudists live in peace. Hinduism and Christians and Bhudists live in peace. But bring Islam into the equation and voila! You have violence and crisis.
Now for a Muslim that doesn't know Koran 19: 27-28 which says: At length she brought (the babe) to her people, carrying him (in her arms), They said: "O Mary! Truly a strange thing has thou brought! "O sister of Aaron, thy father was not a man of evil, nor your mother a woman unchaste!" I wonder if you really are a Muslim. And now you say the hard copy Koran is different from the soft copy? Isn't that the weakest point any Muslim has ever made ever?
And finally, I have every translation of the Bible and they do not differ from each other. They just make things clearer. I have told you about the manuscripts! They are there. We can trace every root word to the original Hebrew word. Theologians like Gerd Ludemann has studied these things. I have read his book. So come up with another argument.
PS: any God that doesn't know that Mary is not the sister of Aaron is not a very smart god. Why should I believe him in anything else?
Oh and please I need those verses that have been replaced. How come we didn't know this all these while? And all your greatest teachers like Zakir Naik who I have been listening to has never spotted this? But you did? Wow! You must be brilliant! Or just listening to crap your imam tells you.

lfleak:
remember one thing, am quoting from the Quran alone, show me where in the Quran the children of isreal are the sons of jacob downward...

boko haram do not and will never fight for islam... why dont you guys think for once... boko haram and other terrorist grouo are not fighting for islam... if you think they are, who are those funding them... all the sophisticated weapon you see them with, where are they gotten from..? or you think shekau can buy even a bullet..?
also to Daesh(ISIS)

The US isn't in Syria to defeat ISIS, they are there to install a puppet government set up the IMF and rape the resources from the country and people. Same thing they have done in every country they spread "freedom" to (libya, afghanistan, iraq, palestine, yemen). Team America the real world terrorist need to quit spreading their IslamoPhobia and fix thier own racist imbred shit hole of a country.

For once think!, think! The Quran is the most PERFECT AND ERROR FREE BOOK ever... (Am up to argue that if you want)... the injil (bible) is also the words of God to Issa(Jesus) but it has been maneuvered alot to suite the interest of the ignorant masses... I may give you the real bible, that was intact and you see the content, you see, i wouldn't like to go into the bible because I dont want to turn you to an atheist which is worse than being monotheists believer...

anyways, am waiting...

Who is sponsoring them? Simple answer. Your Muslim leaders. You come up with that west sponsoring Isis, blah blah blah you and I know that's total jargons. After the death of Muhammad how did Islam spread? Jihad! And why? That was the nom. Show me one place in the Koran that it says Islam is the religion of peace? No place! That term 'religion of peace" came up in the 20th century and that was after you Muslims started playing the defensive. And as for the Koran being an error free book? Hhahahahahahahahahahahahaha. It called Mary the sister of Aaron for heaven's sake. Those two lived about 1400 years apart!
And I can see you are in the "Bible has been corrupted" camp. You have the real bible? Oh please I will love to see it. You think the Bible is like the Koran that has no historical backings? Just one man saying "the words of Allah"? Every letter of the Bible is still available in ancient Greek and Hebrew manuscripts. If they want to re-write the entire Bible from those manuscripts, it can be rewritten. What do you think theologians study? Those manuscripts! If there were changes they would have spotted it including Islamic theologians. My brother don't be ignorant. The Bible hasn't changed.
I am waiting.

Kbraims:
Can u explain wat d verse is saying

Explained it in the first post.