₦airaland Forum

BlackIsLife:
@ Image123 - It is obvious you don't have the answer to my questions or maybe you don't even understand it all all


I asked "how do you come up with the fact that sinners are burning in hell now before the judgement day?" is it that they have been judge?, where are the righteous at now, in heaven or in the grave? - the passages you tender didnt support your assertions



If sinners are in hell right now how will you explain this passage: Dan12:2: "And many of them that SLEEP in the dust of the earth shall AWAKE, some to EVERLASTING LIFE, and some to shame and EVERLASTING CONTEMPT. - What are they waking up from since from your assertions sinners are in hell already

The below quote was your questions. You're a very confused fellow, you do need the Lord. What were my assertions? i get a laugh seeing dodgers.

BlackIsLife:
How do you come up with the fact that 'people are in hell, but the hell is not hell fire?' what is hell? & where are the righteous are presently?

Ranchhoddas:
So it wasn't God?

i don't know, i wasn't there for instance. What i said is that it is not a raw demonstration of the supernatural. By the way, not everything supernatural or powerful is God. There be many spirits out there.

dalaman:
Assuming you are the head of a company and your employees have different views about you that seems to be very conflicting which is affecting the company negatively. I believe you will want to clarify it your self so that the conflicting views will end. Does your God revel in inefficiency? Human systems are not perfect. You claim you have this perfect God that runs a system that is even worse that that of the imperfect humans. Unless if your God is a lover of the confusion and madness that is going on in his name among his followers I see no reason why he should allow this system assuming he exist that is.

In this case, it is not affecting the company negatively. The church is marching on, and the primary goal of salvation by grace through faith is being achieved daily. If one person thinks blue is Jesus holy color, and the other says it's white. Those are irrelevancies no one should develop headache over.Millions of sinners have been saved through the way of the Cross. You have no excuse.

Ranchhoddas:
Absolutely nothing.

Exactly, that was why i hailed the fellow who had experienced a raw demonstration of the supernatural. People who have experienced real testimonies, striking experiences. Not falling down that 2 year olds experience daily.

Ranchhoddas:
What is it with you and the word 'raw'.? Is it that falling is not a raw demonstration or that it is not a demonstration at all. What is the difference between the two?- Demonstration and raw demonstration that is.

What did you get after falling? Stay in context.

Ranchhoddas:
Person blow you breeze you fall for ground no be demonstration again. If what you mean is healing of amputees, I never see that one o. You don see am before?

How is falling down a raw demonstration of supernatural power, kindly explain? What did you get after falling? i've never personally met(in a church service) or known an amputee, sorry. How many do you know?

BlackIsLife:
You yet to answer the question i asked, in fact you have succeeded in evading 98% of the questions i asked you - how does these passages you come up with justify the assertion you made that people are burning in hell right now? - this passages is in no way related to the question.

Do you really think you deserved my apology?

You see one of the reasons why i had to ask if you are a christian? If you were, that verse i quoted alone could have been enough in helping you with your questions, because it is a major clue. But what do we have here, someone who knows nothing, hopefully you are willing to know something.

You asked, "How do you come up with the fact that 'people are in hell, but the hell is not hell fire?' what is hell? & where are the righteous are presently?"

1. How do you come up with the fact that the hell is not hell fire?
i have helped you with the question about hell been different from hell fire. Here it is again.

Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Hell is cast into the lake of fire, this evidently shows that Hell is different from the lake of fire. Any reader of the Bible knows that the sinners are also cast into that lake of fire, including the devil etc. This is during the period known worldwide as the Great White Throne Judgement.

Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. (PEOPLE ARE CAST THERE)

Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night forever and ever
(DEVIL AND COHORTS ARE CAST THERE).

2. How do you come up with the fact that 'people are in hell?

The above should normally answer this, but like i said, you are not a christian so things are very hard for you. Lemme explain.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

Hell delivered up the dead which was in it. People go to hell, and like the rich man i first quoted, he was in hell.
Luk 16:23 And in hell he lifted up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

Jesus Himself said that people are in hell, the rich man was there and asking Abraham to send Lazarus to his relatives on earth. Also, the Bible is very clear on the destination of the unrighteous when they die.
Psa 9:17 The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God.
Psa 16:10 For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
Pro 9:18 But he knoweth not that the dead are there; and that her guests are in the depths of hell.

3. what is hell?
Hell is the destination of the unrighteous. It is somewhere beneath us, so it is not uncommon for people to refer to the grave as hell.
Isa 14:9 Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.
Pro 15:24 The way of life is above to the wise, that he may depart from hell beneath.

It is a place of torment too as described by Jesus who knows.

4. where are the righteous are presently?

i believe you refer to the "dead" righteous. They are in Heaven in a place called paradise or Abraham's bosom.
Ecc 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

dalaman:
Because Jesus did not send the message himself christianity has over 33,000 sects today in a free for all fight for who is right and who is wrong. Right beside me here is a seven day adventist publication saying that the Catholic Church is the mother of all Satan. If Jesus preached his message himself all these things will not be happening assuming Jesus is real and not another mythical God men invented.

You make this assertion based on assumption as usual. When Jesus gave the message Himself, there were still sects. There were pharisees, sadducees, herodians. There were those that believe He was Elijah etc.

Mat 16:14 And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elijah; and others, Jeremiah, or one of the prophets.

In the world today, people have differing views and understandings about people that are alive. Look at sports and politics for instance and see the arguments. Your suggestions remain insignificant. You may as well suggest to God to make the days 25hrs each for productivity, or make the birds fly lower. He remains not just the wiser than the wisest, but the Only Wise God.

Jud 1:25 To the only wise God our Savior, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

Seun:
Do you honestly believe that Jesus in his revived body wouldn't have preached the gospel far more effectively than his disciples with their tale?

Yep, i believe so. Jesus did many miracles and raised the dead also, yet they did not believe Him. Many would give excuses like you do. They may say He did not die on calvary, or He is not the One or whatever other lazy excuse. With all Jesus' miracles and preaching for three years thereabout, not many people followed Him, yet with His disciples taking over, over 3000 people were added to His followers in a day and continued following. Millions of people have joined the train ever since. Your suggestions are noted,
1Co 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

Ranchhoddas:
I have seen and experienced some of these demonstrations. I don fall for church more than once. Even female pastor don touch my head and I fall. Person don lay hands on me and I begin speak in tongues (or so I thought).

Falling down is no demonstration, kids do it all the time. i said "raw demonstration of the power of the supernatural".

BlackIsLife:
How do you come up with the fact that 'people are in hell, but the hell is not hell fire?' what is hell? & where are the righteous are presently?

Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Hell is cast into the lake of fire(hell fire). That is the eternal abode of satan and his cohorts.
Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

i will answer the rest later, my battery is out and i have a meeting BTW.

seafarers:
free will - the power of making free choices unconstrained by external agencies.

This is right, and it separates us from the sun or the moon, or the next goat or dog.

determination of one's own fate or course of action without compulsion.
That's the definition to me.
To my own understanding, so far the free will is there, God doesn't have to blame anyone for the choice he chose. If I decide to kill myself today isn't my choice, and you will say am going to hell.. .that means God himself didn't play to his own game when he gave us the free will.
Had it been there is nothing like free will.. .all these rules and regulations had to act in use,we would have know that we can't do anything outside what we have been configure to do..
I don't think you know the meaning of free will bro.

The definition involves responsibility. You are free to choose whether to steal public funds or serve patriotically. However, the consequences of stealing public funds are not determined by you. You may go to prison, or go on to be celebrated. That is pretty much how free will is. You may decide to cheat in the exams or do things the right way. You make that decision, nobody forces you to. However, the consequences of cheating are not determined by you. You may decide to sleep on the expressway, you put yourself there by choice. Nobody drags you there. Nonetheless, the consequences of that choice can be catastrophic. If you still do not get it, you simply do not get it.

BlackIsLife:
I'm sorry for what i said earlier, can we now move on please!

Good boy. You apologised even though i am yet to show you. Exercise patience, you will be shown before the day runs out.

Weah96:
I think you heard me loud and clear.

The creator of galaxies spoke to Jews and gave them instructions on how to live life. Abi?

What did the bible people tell you which made you realize that the creator of all galaxies really spoke to them?
Was it the invisibility factor, you became intimidated when they said that the thing was invisible?

Good, actually better. So you know how to express yourself more plainly?
The Creator of the whole world speaks to whoever He chooses, do you have a problem with that? As regards the Bible, the Jews listened and obeyed as evidently shown from their Abrahamic covenant and lineage. No biggie there, we do it all the time. 11 boys can lose a football match, and we hear that Nigeria lost 3-0, just because some 11boys didn't play well. Those 11boys represented the whole country as it were. God spoke severally to men, and as we see in the Bible, several non-Jews like Job, Isaac, Abraham, Noah, Enoch, Melchisedec and Adam heard Him. Good thing that a Jew, Moses penned the events in writing. Do you have a problem with that? You want to write yours?
i believed the Bible because i found it to be reliable, i found it to be inspired, i found it to be superior over other books, i wondered at its unity and coherence, i was amazed at its influence over the world, i was awed by its non-improvement and preservation despite all odds, because of its fulfilled prophecies, and finally because of the response of the souls of men to it for generations and world without end.

dalaman:
Jesus did not tell the world about his message. He only told a very tiny part of the middle east(Israel ) assuming the things written about him are true. Jesus being God we are told can do all things besides the fact that he wants to be in a personal relationship with humans. If I want to be in a personal relationship with anybody I will go and woo the person myself. I will not send another person.

The people He told are a part of the world, humans behave the same. Just like you are behaving, it is the same way the folks in the middle east behaved to Him. Jesus came to the world to woo us already. Then He sent the Holy Spirit and His disciples. Millions of people have come to a personal relationship with Jesus through His means. You siddon and be looking for more efficient means.

BlackIsLife:
Why not show it now, oh, you still looking it up - i'm patiently waiting for you though, make sure you consult all the pastors you can reach too.

Promise to apologise if shown.

BlackIsLife:
You are a terrible lier - state the passage of the bible that verify your claim - What is hell? how is hell different from hell fire? please define hell.

Hope you will apologize after i show you? We need to be a little responsible in our utterances.

Ranchhoddas:
And it DOES NOT MATTER if millions more get to be roasted as a result right? The glass is not even quarter-full.

Of course IT MATTERS. i'm telling you the reality on ground, not the emotionality.

seafarers:
Bro, that's no more a free will

That's the reality definition, what's your definition?

Ranchhoddas:
You be lawyer. How did we go from non-christians to not saved? The word 'saved' is ambiguous and open to interpretation but 'Christians'- not so much.

There are many christains and xtians who claim to be christians. True Christians are saved, they are BORN again. Anyone born has the responsibility of breathing, no one will do it for you.

BlackIsLife:
How do you come up with the fact that 'people are in hell, but the hell is not hell fire?' what is hell? & where are the righteous are presently?

From the Bible, where else? The spirits of the righteous are with God, i thought i said that earlier. i said spirits go to be with God and to hell.

Ranchhoddas:
I don't comprehend anything. His time wasting is clearly doing more harm than good. Unless He ain't coming at all... You comprehend?

His not coming today means that more people would be saved than yesterday. You can see the glass half-full or half-empty. Do you understand?

dalaman:
I thought the bible says that for God so.loved the world that he gave his only son for salvation. Does Jesus want the whole world to hear him or not? If he wants the whole world to hear him why not tell them about his message himself?

Yes He did and you need to also appreciate the context. You love your sister, you love your mother, you love your father, you love your wife, you love food, you love sports etc. You cannot do everything for each of these. There are things you can do for your wife you cannot do for your sister. There are things you can do for your mum you cannot do for food. It does not negate the fact that you love food.
Jesus told the world about His message Himself for about three years, with mighty signs and wonders even. They ended up hating Him and ultimately crucifying Him. What is that thing, they say about doing the same thing and expecting something different again? Be a good adviser mr man.

Ranchhoddas:
Verdict: All non-christians are irresponsible and indisciplined.

Your verdict. Fair in my opinion. Anyone who is not saved is ultimately irresponsible and indisciplined. No wonder the Bible also classifies them as goats and fools. You made a valid point.

BlackIsLife:
Ecc 3:19-21 - In this passage the spirit of man and the spirit of the beast are identified; spirit leaves man just as it leaves the beast, there is no difference in where it goes, base on what Ecc 3:19-21 says.


You quoted luke 16:23 - does it imply that people are in hell presently?

Ecc 3:19 For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.
Ecc 3:20 All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.
Ecc 3:21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?


What purpose exactly do you wish to achieve, i am not a crk teacher oh.
Yes, people are in hell, not hell fire though.

Ranchhoddas:
Hahahahahahahahahaa. This one hard you abi. At least you can stop telling people that Jesus has not come because he's waiting for people to repent... Here's a simpler explanation: The Bible/Christianity is not the only way or true way to salvation(That's assuming that Mankind requires any salvation at all)

No be so oh. Jesus wants you to repent, however, He will not waste time in judging sinners when the time comes. Comprehend?

BlackIsLife:
Nothing is difficult here - i may even know what the bible talks about more than you do, i was once a xtian

i've never met a xtian that knows what the bible talks about more than i do, it will be very surprising. Like meeting a plant that writes better than me. Now, what i meant is that if you are a christian, , its kinda easier to explain calculus to an A-level student, than it would be a stark illiterate.

Seun:
According to the bible, Jesus was on earth for 30 years doing basically nothing. And he spent another 3 years preaching before he died. Spending a few more years preaching openly with his ressurected body to convert the whole world seems like a no-brainer. What's he been doing doing in heaven for 2000 years that is more important than converting the whole world?

He don't need to convert the whole world, i thought that was the no-brainer.

Weah96:
So a bunch of people gathered together and said that a non human entity spoke to them, telling them that it created the universe.

You seem to be referring to the evolution story. No bunch of people gathered together in the Bible to say such strange things you are talking of.

And you just believed them like that just because you didn't know the origin of the universe? C'mon son.

Look in the mirror, you seem to be addressing yourself.

A whole creator with a favorite tribe of humans? Killing other humans on behalf of his favorite humans?

Not only did they bring message from invisible person, the message itself is rubbish. How can a creator of galaxies and suns take a small tribe as his favorite, killing other human beings for the tribe? Why are the humans even fighting and the creator can talk?

Speak English, you are losing me.

Ranchhoddas:
I like a simple life. This looks complicated. I'll think I'll pass.

Responsibility is not complicated, it only takes discipline. The christian life is the most simple life, only that people make it difficult for themselves and others.

BlackIsLife:
No. I'm a curious being - a gnostic athiest!


If the spirit lives on, where does it go to after death?

Okeey, makes the job more difficult. It's like explaining maths to someone who does not understand your language. i go try sha.

Ranchhoddas:
This makes absolutely no sense. His delay is clearly making more people go to hell as thousands of children are born daily worldwide and you and I know that a very large majority of these will live and die without being Christians talk more of becoming born again Christians.

Urrrm, what do we do? Let's stop giving birth already then. Apparently, He is not stumped about it. If i were you, i will do the wise thing, worry about myself and those i can help.
Isa 40:17 All nations before him are as nothing; and they are counted to him less than nothing, and vanity.

In His perspective, we are His crops. During harvest, He will take what He needs and 'trash' the rest.