₦airaland Forum

make i park here.

ichommy:
1. "Science can't explain the complexity and order of life; God must have designed it to be this way."
First, when considering this position, it's important to recognize the difference between complexity and design. Complexity itself does not require an intelligent creator. It's easy to impose a design upon things that exist by chance or developed through a natural process like evolution.
To an extent, this argument gains traction because of wide misunderstanding of science and especially evolution. Everything in the universe conforms to certain simple scientific rules that have been repeated over billions of years. While this can be awe-inspiring, it by no means suggests a creator.
Failure to understand the scientific principles guiding the creation and development of the universe does not mean that a deity must exist to explain the natural world.

This is most convenient nonsense, i was also around billions of years ago, can you disprove that? Also, kindly give examples of complexities that do not require a creator, let's measure it's order and design. Note that you have by no means disproved a Creator.

2. "God's existence is proven by scripture."
This argument presupposes its premise. People believe in scripture and place value in the words because they already believe in the religious principles the text describes. There is no inherent value to the Bible, Quran or any other religious text; these documents are not self-authenticating in any way.
In fact, many factual inaccuracies and inconsistencies can be found within religious texts themselves. For example, the Bible contains two separate creation stories, each of which provides a very different explanation. Similarly, there is no historical, archaeological or scientific evidence to support many of the stories in the Bible and the Quran.
Ultimately, religious texts are infinitely fallible because they are man-made products of whimsy, poetry, mythology and some history woven together into a new whole. The texts in the Bible have been gathered from many oral sources over thousands of years and compiled arbitrarily into a single document; it's hardly surprising that the narrative would be so inconsistent. Other religious texts have similarly convoluted histories.
Aside from the problems with individual texts, there's also the obvious issue that the very presence of multiple scriptures negates the authenticity of any single religious document. It's impossible for every religious book to be true; it's highly presumptuous to assume that one's own preferred scripture is the single "true" scripture while all the others are false accounts. It's far more likely that every religious book is equally fictitious and unreliable.

What do you mean by the term "self authenticating"? You are probably unaware or mischievously skip the reasons why some say that the Bible shows/proves God's existence. You're dodging the points. On many scriptures, you do know that truth is exclusive i hope? In similar vein and reasoning as yours, we may also state that it is impossible for every worldview or belief/disbelief to be true, therefore, atheism is not true but equally fictitious and unreliable as other worldviews.

3. "Some unexplained events are miraculous, and these miracles prove the existence of God."
A miracle is typically understood as an extraordinary event or happening that is explained as being the work of a divine agency and having a supernatural origin. However, before miracles can be used as irrefutable proof of God's existence, the cause or origin of so-called miracles must be proven. There is currently no evidence to suggest that miracles truly exist. In reality, there are several underlying explanations behind most miracles, for example:
-- The event is statistically unlikely, and its unlikeliness has caused some people to attribute significance to it. For example, some cultures believe that all-white animals are miraculous or somehow magical. However, science has proven that albinism is a perfectly normal genetic condition that happens to be rarer than other forms of pigmentation. Similarly, a single person surviving a natural disaster is no more miraculous than a single person winning the lottery; it's simply an unlikely random occurrence.
-- The event has a scientific cause that is not immediately apparent or understood but is later identified. Many natural phenomena were once viewed as miraculous. After science demonstrated the reason behind previously incomprehensible things, like aurora borealis, earthquakes and hot springs, they stopped seeming like the actions of a mysterious deity.
-- The event was inherently meaningless, but meaning and significance was attributed after the fact. In science, hearsay and anecdotal evidence are not sufficient to prove something. Each time a "miracle" occurs, it's easy to see magical thinking, misattribution and other human errors at work. For example, if a child is ill in the hospital, a family member might pray for his recovery. If that child does recover, the praying relative will attribute this to the power of prayer, not to any medical innovations, immunological responses or sheer power of chance.
It's curious to note that the miracles performed by an "all-loving" and benevolent God so often involve sparing a handful of people from a tragic accident, devastating disaster or deadly disease. God is rarely held accountable by believers for all of the deaths that occur when people are not saved by a "miracle." On the whole, the tiny percentage of "miraculous" recoveries would be greater evidence of a deity's arbitrary cruelty than his benevolence, but this is never something believers seem comfortable discussing.

You've mistaken superstition for miracles, much like people mistake atheism for intelligence. Remember also that the Christian worldview doesn't only present God but also presents another important character, the devil.

4. "Morality stems from God, and without God, we could not be good people."
So-called "moral" behaviors, such as altruism and reciprocity, are not inherently human. In the natural world, they can be observed in a variety of animal species, especially social animals. Science shows that such behavior has an evolutionary benefit: creatures who learn to interact well with their kin will have a stronger likelihood of survival and passing on their genes.
All of this means that, from a scientific viewpoint, morality does not stem from God. Instead, it has its roots in brain chemicals and is supported by strong cultural conditioning. Parents pass their morals along to their children, and individuals take social cues regarding "right" and "wrong" behaviors from friends, family, media influence and more. Religious texts are just an attempt to codify acceptable behaviors into a set of laws. Unfortunately, these rules can quickly become outdated, irrelevant and even painfully arbitrary.
It's fashionable for religious people to claim that atheists are immoral hedonists, but a quick survey of real people shows that to be false. By and large, atheists are no less moral than any other group of people.

What is good? Why are you good and what makes what you term good to be better than what i term as good?

5. "Belief in God would not be so widespread if God didn’t exist."
This type of claim is called an "argumentum ad populum" or “appeal to the majority,” and it's simply not true. Many beliefs are popular or widely held without being true, and things that are true exist whether anyone believes in them or not.
Alchemy, at one time, was extremely popular and widespread, but few people today would seriously claim that lead could be transmuted into gold. There are similarly few people who still believe that the earth is flat or the center of the universe despite those also being very popular beliefs at one time.
Furthermore, the widespread nature of religion says little about the veracity of any given religious belief. While it's true that many cultures around the world all hold religious beliefs, those beliefs themselves are widely variable and often at odds with each other. When every religion states that it is the one true path to salvation, it by necessity claims that all others are false. If religion were true by virtue of widespread belief, it would certainly make more sense for all people to at least believe the same thing.

Alchemy popular where and how? Do you know how popular theism is for all ages and generation? Even football clubs are more popular than alchemy, rubbish. The belief in the supernatural is not just popular, it is people's often honest testimonies of experiences, not hearsay only, not tradition.

6. "God answers prayers; therefore, he must be real."
Just as miracles are impossible to prove without resorting to unreliable anecdotes, the power of prayer is certainly not supported by science. Belief in prayer relies on confirmation bias. Essentially, people remember the times that prayer seemed to "work" but conveniently forget the many occasions that they prayed and saw no response or received the opposite result of what they'd wanted. These unwanted results are often ignored completely or rationalized away.
Prayer is a type of magical thinking. Its appeal is undeniable; it feels empowering and makes individuals feel as though they have a measure of control over the world around them. But there is simply no evidence that prayers are anything more than a placebo. And unlike many placebos, prayer can actually be harmful.
The "power of prayer" is one of the most insidious and even harmful beliefs proffered by religion. When faced with any sort of tragedy or misfortune, prayer is one of the least helpful responses imaginable. When tragedy strikes, prayer may make people feel better, but it doesn't actually help the victims.
Donating blood, giving money to the Red Cross or volunteering with a relief organization would all be far more beneficial than praying to the same hypothetical deity who ostensibly caused the disaster in the first place.

Don't be ridiculous, Theism is not science and does not have to be a subset or under the laws of science, duh. It's like expecting emotions to be mathematical, and if they are not it means they don't exist or are invalid. they are two different things. BTW, the deity caused the disaster to you and is responsible for all the frustrations of your life but He does not exist, right?

7. "I feel a personal relationship to God, so I know that he is real."
Such personal testimonies are difficult to refute because they are completely subjective. They're also impossible to prove for the same reason. When individuals report a private revelation or communication with God, it's never about factual information that could be confirmed or denied. These religious experiences are always personal and emotional, which makes them count as nothing more than anecdotal “evidence”.
The human brain has evolved to be particularly sensitive to patterns and causality. It's so effective at this, in fact, that people often see a pattern or purpose in things that are actually random. This is why it's easy to identify objects or faces in the clouds, for example, or why white noise can be interpreted to resemble human speech. This same sensitivity can make random or unrelated events seem like the presence of God, especially if the person experiencing them has a predisposition toward wanting those beliefs to be true.
In other cases, a religious experience can be triggered by any number of outside forces, including drug use or mental illness. Indeed, many people in multiple cultures have experienced similar symptoms but variously attributed them to a variety of different sources, both religious and secular.

Lol, you obviously have never met christians with the gifts of the Spirit, or other theists with spiritual powers. i forgive your myopia.

8. "It's safer to believe in God than be wrong and go to Hell."
This concept, called Pascal's Wager, does not actually support religious beliefs. Instead, it acts as a way to coerce belief out of unwilling participants. The logic goes something like this: if I believe in God and am wrong, then nothing bad will happen. But if I renounce God and am wrong, I will be punished in Hell. There are several problems with this line of reasoning:
-- Religions are inconsistent. In order for Pascal's Wager to work, the believer would need some assurance that believing in God would, in fact, save him from punishment. When multiple religions exist with conflicting messages, however, this is impossible. What if you choose to believe in the wrong God and go to Hell anyway?
-- A truly benevolent God would not punish his creations simply because they did not believe in him. God could just as easily reward his creations for being skeptical. Because there is no way to ascertain what a deity's motives might be, there's no way to know that Pascal's Wager would even work.
-- If a person believes in God only out of fear of punishment, that belief would be thin and false. Surely an omniscient deity could see through that act and choose to reward only true believers.

So you suggest paralysis?

9. "I have faith; I don't need facts. I just want to believe."
This argument would be perfectly valid if the believer was willing to concede that their God is a social construction or metaphorical concept. Most believers aren't comfortable with that, though, and faith simply does not stand up in the face of scientific scrutiny. Believing in something does not make it true.
Truth is not subjective or democratic. It does not need belief to make it work. Gravity, for example, works the same whether you have faith in it or not. You do not need to choose to believe in gravity because it's an immutable fact of the universe.
Faith is often lauded as a positive quality, but it is, in fact, very intellectually lazy. Faith precludes scientific thinking and the natural wonder of discovery; it stops people from searching for answers to questions about the real world. Faith is little more than the glorification of willful ignorance.

Actually would not suggest or encourage anyone not to need facts, neither does scriptures. However, facts are not only limited to science or gravity. Facts are seen in our everyday life, our marriages, our relationships, our emotions, our health, our existence. Faith indeed have helped many millions in these areas.

10. "There's no evidence that God doesn't exist."
This argument is often offered as a last line of defense in religious debates, and the person posing it might feel very clever coming up with it. However, the premise of the argument is both flawed and ridiculous. The failure to disprove something does not constitute proof of its existence.
The burden of proof is always on the person making a claim, especially in cases where the claims are unsupported or unfalsifiable. With no enduring evidence that a God exists, there is simply no reason to believe in a deity, even if it's not possible to irrefutably disprove his existence.
Many thought experiments have been created to show the absurdity of these claims, such as the Invisible Pink Unicorn, Carl Sagan's "The Dragon in My Garage," Russell's Teapot or the Flying Spaghetti Monster. All of which are absurd claims without evidence and yet impossible to disprove. Familiarizing yourself with these thought experiments can give you a clear picture of exactly why the burden of proof should always be on the person making a claim.



http://www.atheistrepublic.com/blog/arminnavabi/why-there-no-god-quick-responses-10-common-theist-arguments

The bolded says it all "The failure to disprove", nothing more needed to add really.

matrix600:
sorry to interfere in this quarrel oh wise and great one, but please how do you know that there're different levels of pain in hell, are you saying some parts of hell are hotter than some, or some part of hell the fire is milder, and fiercer in others. This is a new theory so Please ELABORATE

There's no quarrel, why do you resort to flattery? Have you not read the scriptures? The problem i have with atheists is that they want to define God,and as God doesn't suit their definition, therefore there's no God. How convenient. i know there are different levels of pain in hell the same way I know that the Sun is made up of Hydrogen and Helium. Do you know that the Sun is made up of Hydrogen and Helium?

frank317:
He is an active member of the church, that's most important. 90% of Christians on Nairaland and juat active church goers yet they think they deserve hevean while atheists are demons. Or if you have a child who is active like him in your church would you still condemn him?

Jesus doesn't know active members, activity is not productivity. Jesus knows saved,born again converts. All our activities and religious zeal remain filthy rags before God. You've read this before somewhere certainly.

TheMascot:
where does did end lemme guess?..after being the best christian you could be..something went how you didndidnt plan out..and boom..u began to remember all the things you have done for God and he couldn't do this one thing to make you feel happy..if its not like this..tell me

As usual na,that's the way they roll.

Ranchhoddas:
Obviously I grossly overestimated you.Apologies.

Hehehehehehehe, we all make mistakes you know. Hopefully, our mistakes are not eternal.

Ranchhoddas:
How do you know this?

The same way i know that the Sun is composed of Hydrogen and Helium.

hehehehehehehe, see as Udom is looking at Lai with disdain and disbelief. Chai,Lai father. the masquerade job creator.

www.nairaland.com/attachments/3676594_20160504131549_jpeg3cadf0ff81335d39fb22397d831a700d

freecocoa:
Yes, I'm just running an errand on earth today, I'll be going back to hell tomorrow. If that isn't proof enough, I don't know what is.

Lilbrown007, Ranchhoddas. Questions on hell's temperature may be directed to this fellow, she's self acclaimed.
Warning though, she's not legit but may have ideas.

Ranchhoddas:
Are you saying that there are different temperatures in the various parts of hell?

Good question. i don't know the temperature of hell,lol. There are different punishments for sinners as there are different rewards for saints/believers.

Lilbrown007:
HAHA THAT'S THE PROB WITH RELIGION INSTEAD OF U GUYS SHOULD JUST SAY I DON'T KNOW O U WILL COME UP WITH ONE BASELESS ASSUMPTION NOW U SAYING HELL HAS DIFFERENT DEGREE OF HOTNESS PLS WHATS UR PROOF ON THIS?? ABI U WENT THERE IN THE SPIRIT TO MEASURE IT WITH SCALES??

i don't recall saying this, what's your proof that i said this? You've not talked about paying me BTW since you want to know more about hell. I've never met anyone like that before.

zeehassan2:
Part of the reasons why i remained in the closet wih people around me. I ll like to freely discuss my beliefs/ non-thereof, but the intolerant and brainwashed responses and the reception you get.... Some go as far as persecuting you.

Same here same here, atheists and other unbelievers are intolerant about me freely discussing my beliefs. Some even insist that i don't quote Bible, may God help us. Sorry may we help us.

^^if I may ask, you've not talked about your faith,your becoming saved or born again experience. Would be interesting to see. So far, you've painted the picture of a religious person, just saying.

Lilbrown007:
WOW SO YOU HAVE BEEN TO HELL B4?? THE WAY U DESCRIBING IT PLS I WANNA KNOW MORE

How much will you pay me? Go and read your books jor, you want to know more about hell.

frank317:
Lol... People take away different things from different event... Is that a biblical quote? But that's true anyway, yet that's the way of the world, what does your God expect when he lets the way of the world overtake events that are supposed to prove him? Different people react differently to different things and your si called almighty God does not understand this? He does not even act to counter it? He just gets Angry that someone acts like human. Well, I see this statement for what it is and it shows how different events have nothing to do with God.
And please stop that falsehood. Christians are no better than anybody. They are not special in anyway. If they like pray down fire, they all have equal opportunity to succeed in life with everybody. You can't be calling your self special yet you have a boss who is not a Christian at workplace. Or a landlord who is not a Christian. You can't live in the same uncertainty with UNBELIEVERS and still claim to be special. I know many Christians around me, there is nothing special about them, just claims to be special.

People take away different things at different times from an event. Who made that the way of the world? That is general human behaviour, do you need biblical examples or i should first prove that the Bible is the Word of God.
God does not need to be proved. People react different don't mean there are no consequences for reactions. If i react to my want by stealing and you react to your want by working hard, and another reacts by begging, should i be understood and permitted to steal? Since you expect Almighty God to understand it. Would you also understand it? If i saw your beautiful daughter, my reaction to her may be different from the reaction of five other men. Would you understand every one of our reactions? The point again is that there are consequences for different reactions and decisions.
On christians being special, don't be jealous. We are special and peculiar though many don't know it.

Ranchhoddas:
I have been following this thread from page one and you were the stand-out christian until you wrote this nonsense.

Lol, the topic of hell is not very appealing and i would not deceive you into thinking it is. Many people were offended by some messages of Jesus as they were blunt sometimes and not what people expected to hear. i know many people that like God and all but don't believe his idea of hell. All sinners will go to hell, that is the truth and i hope not to colour it. The thing is this, if you do not have eternal life, you go to hell. It is not really about works. Sin is worse than a virus, an infected file is an infected file, no matter how big or useful it is. If the virus is not taken away, such file cannot be allowed into some critical infrastructure. That is how sin is. Whether the sin is small or big is not what throws you out, it is whether sin is there or not. When you are cast out into outer darkness, then you are judged according to your works, how big or how small. It is like fast foods thrashing out spoilt food or expired food, or a chemical laboratory destroying an infection like ebola. Even if it is small ebola, once it is detected, you are quarantined no matter your status or how funny or educated or rich you are. All sinners shall have their part in hell.

urahara:
So lets get this straight

First u said no matter how small ur sin is u would go to hell just like no matter how bad ur disease is u ll go to the hospital

Secondly , i then said the analogy was stupid as hell is meant to make u more miserable while the hospital is meant 2 make u better.

Then u re saying that the word treatment can mean to treat u good or treat u bad

So in synopsis what u are trying to say is that

"No matter how small ur sins are ull be treated badly just the same way , no matter how small ur sickness is you ll be treated well." - Image 123.

i like this, you are actually attempting a logical analysis, a miracle is on the way here. It is very rare with the atheists on this forum.
Now, an analogy does not mean the same thing must apply for every aspect. Analogy deals with things being similar in SOME way(s), not in EVERY way. i could as well use an analogy with a prison, or a school. Sometimes analogies are done of people using plants and animals. The point of the analogy i made was that every sick person is attended to in the hospital, they don't say your sickness is too small, bring only HIV people or Kidney failure. In hell, it is not only big sinners that are there or that will be sent there, all sinners will be sent there. All sick people are sent to the doctor. All criminals are sent to prison if convicted, even though they have different levels of crime. All students go to school whether PhD or kindergarten. etc.
Your summary is poor and unfounded. In hell, they don't all get the same treatment. The pain of an headache is different from the pain of a crushed fermur or the pain of a sorethroat or the pain of a failed kidney. There are different degrees of pain in hell. i hope this analogy will be easier for you to understand.

AccidentalGenius:
lol are christians always like this? Don't you know what sarcasm is?

Sarcasm is cutting language: remarks that mean the opposite of what they seem to say and are intended to mock or deride.
What is the sarcasm in the below quote? Don't just throw big words feeling smart. Be smart.

lol i dont want your bearded arabian opening my pretty eyes . I'll die sure. Everyone does. And what is rapture? Is that supposed to annoy me or scare me? Go and keep praying. I hope you get a response one day. I really do

dankol:
Mind you no matter what you haters say, I will finish this story, I guarantee you. You can make a good phone call to sky daddy Jesus to stop me. I will update as much as i can but slowly for my readers to digest. Also, i am packaging this story as a book, it will be in pdf form. So when it is ready, if anyone will be interested by then. I could give it out. but i have not decided on that yet.

You're referring to me, i do not hate you neither am i interested in you finishing your story or not. Your finishing your story adds nothing and takes nothing away from me, it is your fundamental human right. Don't feel persecuted, christians have always being more opposed, even physically, psychologically etc, don't get emotional because there is someone reading your thread who is not all excited and loving your every post. It's a public forum, remember.

AccidentalGenius:
why are you so pathetic? There's a warning not to read, yet you read. He also explains what'll happen if u go further, yet you do. Now you accuse him of trying to convert people and get some sort of followership? I believe your god must have taught you common sense to read and understand and most importanly act accordingly. Now leave this thread, this is clearly not meant for people like you.

You believe? i thought you were an unbeliever. Una own worse, yet you will accuse God of not permitting contrary views and opinions, yet you can strangle yourselves when a christian walks in with contrary views. Hypo.

johnydon22:
^^^ You are not being forced to comment or read, so simply let the guy be and go about your business while he goes about his story

Am i disturbing the fellowship? you people and muslims, i don't know who is more shy.

promise101:
This man sef!


Was that verse talking about, holyghost convicting us of our sins?

Man, wake up and provide a biblical proof!

Yes, the Holy Ghost was correcting the believers/first century christians.

Activa:
This governor wants to create grazing routes for Fulani herdsmen.

Has he thought through it? Will he pay compensation to those he will acquire the routes from?

Of course he would, it is similar to paying people when you want to expand or dualize a road, or if a railtrack or power line will pass through a place. negotiation is done and people are paid.

What will the state benefit as a result of this investment (grazing routes) in cattle farming?

Employment and land use charge, tax and other dues which were previously not collected from herdsmen.

How is he supporting other farmers? What's good for cattle farmers is good for other farmers.

Other farmers have land. If they don't, they should buy. The land for grazing will belong to the government(governmnt property) not for herdsmen.

Will grazing routes stop violence? What's the essence of having grazing routes only in Ebonyi?

It will drastically minimise it. they say where there is no law, there is no sin. It will become illegal for herdsmen to graze on the streets, roads and highways or to trespass outside their grazing area.

AccidentalGenius:
lol i dont want your bearded arabian opening my pretty eyes . I'll die sure. Everyone does. And what is rapture? Is that supposed to annoy me or scare me? Go and keep praying. I hope you get a response one day. I really do

You proved it already, you don't know anything asking what rapture is,and giving of opinions about Christians.I've prayed already, I hope you get the answer, its not me. We call it intercession.
Pls let's keep quiet, i just realized Shakespeare is here.

urahara:
all this ur english gymnastics .

U know i obviously mean treatment to make one better like is done in hospitals which u used for your terrible analogy

i used it remember? i'm the one to obviously mean, get the dictionary if you think otherwise.

Here we go again. im sure you also are not trying to convince or convert anybody. You just want to share your story and have fellowship and sing kumbaya with the brethren.

AccidentalGenius:
what they are or aren't isnt important here. Only time will open your eyes. The funny truth ill tell u is christians are only christians because they are afraid of burning in hell(which doesnt exist). Christians are also know to threathen nonbelievers about how doomed they are( judgement day) if they dont repent. Trust me, in time youll understand how funny the bible and religion really is. They tell u dont ask questions, that u should just have faith, because they dont have answers themselves. Lol anyways cheers

There you go, Christians are only Christians because they don't think, or because they don't ask questions, or because of hell,bla bla bla sheep. Quit the omniscience, you don't know anything abeg.
If only time will open my eyes, I pray it's not death that will open yours or rapture. i pray Jesus opens yours.

urahara:
.. Trying not 2 retaliate with insults. .

In the hospital u get treated . in hell u obviosly dont get treated as the point of hell is not to make the victim a better person but to make the person more miserabe than he has ever been in his life.

U said treat like the person is being made better. Hell is not meant to reform the individual to become a better more morally upright person but it is torment the individual for eternity

There's no place like hell. Don't retaliate with insults,why should you? Treatment can be fair, unfair, terrible etc,am i teaching English?

HardMirror:
Ok....
But what I know is the example I gave above does not give a different result from christ based healings. It is all about setting up the right conditions. And they both give the same frequency of results. What would have made christ based healings real would be to have 10 verified blind men get healed at once, get amputees growing back limbs after prayers etc. There are no miracles in any church or anywhere that is really beyond ordinary.

There are many gifts of the Spirit, though the popular ones are tongues, prophecy and Word of knowledge. You'll need one with the gift of healing to do the above, that is as scarce as Smith Wigglesworth. Nonetheless, even Word of knowledge is not ordinary. It is not ordinary to tell someone about his life's problems, how there is stuff hidden in his unknown compound. And he meets it so, burns it, and his 10year barren wife is pregnant the next month. Surely, that is not ordinary, even you should know that.

HardMirror:
Hope all is well with this guy. Please if you know him offline advice his family on time.

This got me laughing so hard even as i type, i thought i was the only one worried for that guy.

AccidentalGenius:
my parents love me more. Thank you.

Are they christians?

HardMirror:
Healings can come miraculously thru several mean. You can use the name of anything. If today I claim that the water coming out from my tap is healing water and people believe in it. All I need is enough people to take the water and at the end call for testimonies. Be sure that you will hear lots of testimonies.
You just have to make your premise something people can believe in absolutely even if it is based a a big fat lie. It does not matter. Then have a wide spectrum of people put their faith in it.

If I have 1000 sick people. Have various degrees of infamity drink the fake healing water. I am sure we will get about the same number of testimonies as having 1000 people let pastor chris pray for them.

It still works for me.
I trick people close to me into getting healed. Could tell them to drink water and convince them it is no ordinary water. Or make vegetable concoction soup and claim it is medicinal and you see people getting back to their feet in no time. Depends on how convincing you are and how their body responds to the illness. It does not always work just the way prayer in jesus name does not always work. Success rate is about the same frequency.

There are psychosomatic sicknesses that can also be cured psychosomatically, or what they call placebo effect. Even music has some healing "powers". fruits do, water does etc. Medicine also does cure. There are different means to cure. The presense of one means does not negate the other or make the other unreal. Some people for instance will not sleep or stop having headache except they take two tablets of paracetamol. It has to be two or nothing. They expect to be well after that and it works most times. Some people receive healing when they are laid hands on them or pour oil on them, or they hear a big man of God say their problem. If he does not mention their problem, nothing in the prayer for them. Different strokes for different folks. Like Jesus said, " it is unto you according to your faith". Howeveer, there are some healings that are purely miraculous and not usually achievable by the above means. You either need to have the gift of healing or God Himself just intervened in mercy. Those ones do exist. The most important miracle in God's eyes is that of salvation of souls, which He gives SURELY to anybody that asks. Others depend on a combination of factors.

P0intBlank:
Yeah. The comments in the past were weak - not the kind you want to hear if you are on the receiving end of these attacks. I also hope they follow through.

Lol, what did he say today, i'm interested. Did he use the f word?