₦airaland Forum

Julianyao:
Those are things you ought to have considered first before making this post. They are part of the very foundation of what you believe. You can't leave them out at the outset only to bring them in whenever or wherever you like. It's a complete package and should be delivered as such.

For the purpose of discussion, and in an attempt to make things clearer, They will be added in layers. Let's discuss the first step and understand first i.e we have OUR parts to play in receiving from God, in a summary.

SirWere:
So, in a nutshell, what you're saying is that healing is PHCN, a hit or miss with reason unknown to us but best known to the Deity above (Phcn Officals in this case)

Very close to what i am saying. Healing is not an exact science, it is not USUALLY demonstrable or exactly repeated. however, it is real. There were many FACTORS that are involved, some are known, the unknown is God's Sovereignty i.e why God would not do something at all, or at the moment, or the exact way we want it done.

Julianyao:
I don't think anyone can answer your question, bro. Even if we grant, for the sake of this discussion, that a god exists, we can't put ourselves in his position. Here's what I want you to know: whether one got healed/received help from god or not, you'd still rationalize the scenario and probably end with statements like 'it's the will of god'. And on your talk on god endowing us well enough to have dominion over the earth, which of the following do you think is of more importance to humanity:
a. wasting a good number of pages telling us what animal is unclean, which is not, how to make sacrifices...
b. a single page telling us how to make pain killers or even antibiotics.

But If you grant that such a god doesn't exist, I think you'll able deal with the situation and perhaps come to the conclusion that 'well, I don't know how I got better but hopefully, with time I'll get to know what really happened'.

a. No knowledge is a waste.
b. The Bible is not a biology or chemistry textbook, it is a spiritual book.

i know how i got better, and how the other three instances i mentioned got better. We got better by divine intervention, shortly after prayer, and clearly after medical science could not help in the way we wanted. i'm in no way against medical science, neither is God. take note.

PastorAIO:
I wonder if it is possible that Time can turn Image into my friend. Kashimawo!

Hehehehehehehe, nothing is impossible with God.

i've not forgotten the matter of trusting God and giving glory to God etc. I'll explain that, just trying to break things down step by step in case some malunderstandings can be cleared up.

AnalyticEngine:
I used to be a strong christian. I have even preached in church, led bible study, gone for evangelism and led prayer meetings etc. on several occasions. I can confidently say I was more than an average christian...but then certain things just did not add up. The only answer to those troubling questions is that religion is a complete hoax

And the major of those troubles was the amputee concerns?

AnalyticEngine:
My major contention is, why hasn't an amputated arm or leg ever been healed? I have never heard or read of it. OP, over to u

Brrrrrrrrrrrrrr, copy and paste ohhhhhhhhh. i don't know any amputee personally, i cannot confirm that none has ever been healed. That would be an audacious and preposterous fallacy based on presumptuous ignorance. lol. Anyway, nothing so special, is there? Why not stick with what we know and what is available, or are you what i'm suddenly thinking?

musKeeto:
Thank you. How body and your ministry? Time has made friends of us.

Hehehehehehehe, fine fine. Time, politics and God.

musKeeto:

na BANarbas o.. dem lock my account troway key.

They are truly the sons of consolation. Welcome back.

musKeeto:
Abi o.

Muskee, which kain fake resurrection be this one. Where is your manfrom mars abi sonof satan account? You don lose password?

HardMirror:
CONTINUATION.....
I have discovered that religion can be very much related to the Stockholm Syndrome.
You just have an urge to do things at your own detriment for a religion doing nothing for you.

How can you give time to pray 5 times a day as a muslim even though it has no value it is adding to your life. The only value is an assumed value the quran tells you.

Why do christians pay tithe and offerings and those not paying feeling guilty?

Anything can lead to Stockholm Syndrome, including abused atheism. People do not feel guilty for their actions or inactions because of Stockholm Syndrome, they do so mainly because of their consciences, albeit right or wrong.

God heals Breast Cancer in my Local Church in Osogbo
The church I attend in Osogbo has it's HeadQuarters in Ibadan and the General Overseer Bishop.xxxx Bleep is very popular there. A man with so many testimonies of miracles, it is even said he had raised the dead before. He always talks about a time he prayed for a dead child and she woke.
Well I believed him with my whole heart. This man thought me how to fast. I a year we could fast for 70days straight. We called periods of fasting "Days of Glory".
This man taught me how to pay tithe. I never defaulted on paying tight even tho things were very tight for me and my family. I was a faithful tither.
I pray so much like he does too. Infact I picked up a lot from him.

i hope you know that was where you got your 'powers' from i.e what made you different/special than other christian colleagues of yours. Scriptures say to "exercise thyself rather unto godliness. " Many christians do not exercise their spirit man. Anyone that exercises his spirit man(christian or not) will see some dividends. That is what those that practice meditation do, and some other people that have other powers, though not godly. There are many spirits apart from the Spirit of God, whom we are expected and commanded to relate with. i want to believe you know these or some of these?

As usual on sundays, time is given for testimonies (which of course is very important in the modern day church to keep people's faith in the church)
This particular sunday a woman who lived in the same area with us came out to testify.

This was a woman I knew VERY well, a friend to my mum infact.

She claimed she had breast cancer and when she told the pastor, the pastor became worried and asked for urgent prayers for her. They fasted for 3 days and on the 3rd day, the cancer vanished!

Wow! I was really shocked! This woman could not be lying. She was too old for that. So it most be true.

Some days later this woman secretly flew abroad for surgeries and treatments and kept flying out. While leaving people with the lie that she was healed by prayer even publicly praising the pastor and saying all sorts about God being a god of all possibilities. Smh.

I am sure pastor Joagbaje can relate to this. How we quickly jump into conclusion that someone was healed of a deadly disease and we fail to update the church on the facts that the healing was only assumed and never happened.

So unfortunate.

The terrible thing is even when I knew she still went for surgeries, I still gave glory to God and never felt she lied. I was defending her lie and claiming she was only acting in faith.

This is yet another sorry case of a poorly verified miracle. Scriptures enjoin us to prove all things, and to be slow to speak. Your church and its membership's mistakes, not God's.
1Th 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
Jam 1:19 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath:

It makes me remember an incidence that happened in Ido-Osun about 12 years ago. Where a man was bitten by a poisonous snake and instead of going to an hospital, he went to a church. He died some hours later. I remember how chistians were the ones saying the man was a fool.
Wait! Why is the man a fool, does God not claim that when you run to him in days of trouble he will save you? Does he not say "God is a present help in times of trouble?"
Does God not assure us of picking up serpents and stepping on them and not hurting us?

How come all of a sudden same christians that claim to believe in the bible are the ones saying the man was a fool only because the man chose to believe God.

I started hearing them say, "wisdom is profitable to direct". Oh! So it is foolishness to trust the bible and power of God? So it is wisdom to trust doctors that are humans rather than God? Same God that said you should not put your trust in men?
Why do we keep giving excuses for God when he fails?
Imagine if the man had gotten a miracle at the church won't same christians shout and make noise about how awesome God is? But he failed and then you say the man is a fool. Hell yeah! I agree, anyone that believes god is indeed a fool.

This issue is a little bit long and better maturely and separately discussed. i will open a thread on it and invite you and others. It is a matter of UNDERSTANDING really.

Truth NEVER fails, Truth does not need excuses to be made for it. Is the bible true? Is god of religion true? Which religion is serving the true god.

What is truth? Are you truth, have you ever failed? Are people who have failed not true? What exactly do you mean with the high sounding expression?

HardMirror: It makes me remember an incidence that happened in Ido-Osun about 12 years ago. Where a man was bitten by a poisonous snake and instead of going to an hospital, he went to a church. He died some hours later. I remember how chistians were the ones saying the man was a fool.
Wait! Why is the man a fool, does God not claim that when you run to him in days of trouble he will save you? Does he not say "God is a present help in times of trouble?"
Does God not assure us of picking up serpents and stepping on them and not hurting us?

How come all of a sudden same christians that claim to believe in the bible are the ones saying the man was a fool only because the man chose to believe God.

I started hearing them say, "wisdom is profitable to direct". Oh! So it is foolishness to trust the bible and power of God? So it is wisdom to trust doctors that are humans rather than God? Same God that said you should not put your trust in men?
Why do we keep giving excuses for God when he fails?
Imagine if the man had gotten a miracle at the church won't same christians shout and make noise about how awesome God is? But he failed and then you say the man is a fool. Hell yeah! I agree, anyone that believes god is indeed a fool.

This issue is a little bit long and better maturely and separately discussed. It is a matter of UNDERSTANDING really. Bible clearly says that man's ways are different from God's ways and that God's ways are mysterious. That is why we are expected to GROW in knowing Him.
Isa 55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
Isa 55:9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
2Pe 3:18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever. Amen.
Col 1:10 That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God;

Nobody here on earth has full/complete knowledge of God. i don't even understand people close to me fully, not to mention God. The capacity is simply not there to fully process Him. However, just like our pets and domestic animals, we can have and grow in partial knowledge of our owners. For instance, a goat may not first know anything about you, but with time, it might come to understanding that a particular place ant time is where it sleeps, eats, a particular sound makes it know there is food etc. It has understood you to some extent compared to before, and to other goats. Same for pets like dogs, cats etc than can be well trained and understand humans to a very large degree. But no matter how smart a dog is, still it cannot fully process we humans or relate like a human to human. Our wisdom and that of animals is even closer than that of humans and the Godhead.
The point i am bringing out of this is that we may not claim to fully understand the Word of God or God Himself, not you not i. However, we have varying degrees of understanding, and i dare say i understand God more than you. You do not even believe He exists BTW so this should not raise an argument as it were.
When a father, or better still, when you as a father tell your child that you are going to help him/her anytime you are called. It is taken for granted that you say it out of love and mutual understanding. If your child says dad help me with my school fees for instance, you would likely help or try to. If the child says dad help me with the dishes, or read for me, dad you promised to help me. i'm not sure you will help in such a case, even when you could. Why, for one reaason, you expect a level of maturity, responsibility and independence from your child. In similar vein, God has created man with SO MUCH so as to be largely independent and able to solve problems and basically survive. He made man Lord of the earth as it were, and gave him dominion, making him just a little lower than angels. There are some things God normally will not help you with, no matter how many promises you quote, especially when it is something you could have taken care of on your own or with the help of others.
Psa 8:4 What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him?
Psa 8:5 For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honor.
Psa 8:6 Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all things under his feet:

Normally, He doesn't even need to visit us as it were or intervene as much as we want and ask Him to. We are just a little lower than the angels, crowned with glory and honour, and made to have dominion. Sometimes however, God intervenes, what we call miracles. Three main things/causes of His intervention are one His Sovereignty, two Prayers, three Faith.
The Bible does not forbid us from going to the hospital or using medicine. In fact, Paul encouraged Timothy to use wine as some sort of medicine for his FREQUENT infirmities. Anyone running to church instead of the hospital is ON HIS OWN, especially when the hospital can treat him. His decision and model is not Bible based or divinely commanded. Going to the hospital is not mutually exclusive to trusting God or having faith in God. He can still pray in his hospital bed, and he can still die there BTW. His dying there does not mean drugs do not work, just like dying in church does not mean God is not real.
i'll give you four instances/illustrations that explain what i am saying further.
1. There was a sick baby last month, for some reason the parents did not take her to the hospital but were using self medication. When the case got worse, they took her to LUTH. LUTH rejected her saying there was nothing they could do, that it was already late, she should have been brought earlier. They had to take the child home, a baby girl. They sent the request to church for prayers and continued with their medications. The baby girl is better now, she has recovered.

2. There was a man last year, who woke up from bed unable to move from his back up, virtually paralysed. He was 'okay' the previous day, nothing wrong with him. He was rushed to the hospital where they did tests and scans etc and discovered there was a problem with one part of his spine and he had to pay some amount for surgery. The man and the family were so confused and disbelieving because there was nothing wrong with him previously. Why then does he have to spend so much etc. they went to another hospital, this time private specialist. tat one gave him another big name disease from the spine too, of course his fee was bigger. His attempt to go abroad for better healthcare was even more costly. In all these, he was paralysed for real, his neighbours knew, and he himself and family knew. No drama. In the middle of this, brethren have been praying for him. He was then at a healing crusade, and according to him, he received his healing at the crusade. He was spared the agony of living with paralysis for the rest of his life, and the hundreds of thousands he did not have did not need to be worried about. Whatever explanation you may give to that, the man and his family who experienced this answer to prayer will be grateful to God.

3. i have a friend, born a muslim but now a born again christian. This fellow had stroke, with slurred speech, going dumb and clearly dying. As a last resort, after all he could do everywhere else, he was dumped in front of his brother's house. His brother is my friend through whom i knew him. His brother is a christian. The brother found him lying in front of his house dying and neglected. The brother did not offer him any hope of healing, he was preaching to him to give his life to Christ, about eternity etc. The man managed to give his life to Christ. Well, he did not die, so they continued to take care of him, pray for him, read Bible to him etc. In a week, he was healed of ALL his sickness. The man is alive and well, and even richer than his brother as it were. Not dem say, i still saw and spoke with him today. Whatever excuse you might give to that, i would rather have that kind of luck, or placebo or whatever name you call it (instead of you calling it God answering prayer) than believe in nothing, which is far most lazy and does not have any significant advantage.

4. Some few years ago, i suddenly developed eye problem. Dizziness, headache, blurry sight, longsightedness etc. Wetin i do, wetin happen, am i going blind? i began to pray and skabbash It's funny now, though it wasn't funny then oh. i know what i faced and experienced, so don't you tell me story and plausible explanation to rationalise my pain. At any rate, as i was praying, i find my way go see optician. Faith and Medicine are not mutually exclusive, and many need to understand that. After examination, the man said i had latent hyperopia. i've never heard the word nor its meaning before. i asked for the cause, the cure etc. He said it can happen to anybody bla bla bla, there is nothing that can be done to it, i would only use recommended glasses, he said something has spoilt in the eyes(abi finished, i don;t particularly recall), and that is all for a lifetime etc. So, i paid for the glasses, and was told to come back for it in some days time. See me thinking like what went wrong, it cannot happen, so i cannot read again without glasses, even to read for NL, my eyes was heavy and watery etc. As i got home, the kain prayer i fire ehn, no be here. To the glory of God, it was gone the next day. Latent hyperopia went to wherever it came from. i went to collect my designer recommended glasses sha since i have paid for it. i've NEVER had to wear it.

You are skeptics so i hardly expect you to believe my four stories. Even if you did have no choice but to accept that they happened, you would still try to explain them away, anything but God. i experienced it though, and it was God that did it. i've seen other things happen before. i only gave the above four showing that one can still do required part and pray for divine help. God helped me and helped those other three, we all went to the hospital too, but the hospital did not have to help us. Sometimes, healing can come THROUGH the hospital too. i'm already long, not to be too long i will stop here. Expecting your inputs and questions before further talking.


cc: HardMirror, frank317, cloudgoddess, wirinet. You can copy others though i hardly expect them(of your ilk persuasion) to show capability to discuss or reason, from experience.

PastorAIO:
You're playing dumb now. So after human understanding the only other understanding you know is animal understanding. You no longer believe in divine understanding. That foolishness of God that is Wiser than the wisdom of men.

I'll repeat. The bible is full of human understanding and further more it is also full of human folly. This puts the lie to your claim that God authored it. God also authored Skelewu dance in the same capacity as he authored the bible.

Of course, the foolishness of God is wiser than the wisdom of men. That is why you consider the Bible a foolish book foolishly written, yet it is wiser than your opinion. Pretty obvious one would think. The Bible is written in language and format that anyone would understand. The ideas however are divine.

So if an almighty God wrote a special book with a special message for his people, a unique communicating of his will and thoughts that he has not put anywhere else in the universe I would expect that he would take special care to ensure that it remains intact.

What YOU expect of God is irrelevant. Do you have any reference point for your mere expectations? The Bible is good enough for the function for which God gave it.

I never said it did. I agree with you. The claim that it is the 'User's manual' for the human race sent from God is one such misuse, even abuse of it.

What is its right use? The Bible answers all of man's basic questions for all time better than any other book, source, research or learning. For instance, origin, destination, purpose, and the conditions of the heart and its best remedies.

I'm not sure that you've passed that class yet, it sounds like you might have to repeat, but in case you insist then the next stage is to read the bible in the clarity of the light. Don't let NEPA catch you out.

Inspire me please, what did you discover or what makes you distinct after this elusive light you have that i don't have?

ndcide:
Come on... this shouldn't be too much for you.

It's important to determine where they came from. But since our C-in-C have told us that they are Libyans, That's already a national aggression or international invasion..

So it's now beyond the state governors and if the C-in-C can't do anything, then that is dereliction of duty. It's an impeachable offense.

Secondly, is it in this dispensation of Buhari that it's the PRIMARY responsibility of state governments to secure their states?

During Jonathan's time, the media and a lot of people made us understand it was absolutely the responsibility of GEJ. they all claimed the security apparatus is not under their control.

What changed?

1. That they are foreign nationals or citizens is Never the point. Are avengers and kanu not citizens? Herdsmen have association and they have consistently denied the allegations. So, until they are PROVEN, it remains mere allegations before the law. Even the perpetrators are not claiming to fight Nigeria or government. It is the responsibility of the state government to protect their states from criminals, kidnappers, assassins, thieves etc irrespective of what you supposedly read on media or from GEJ or APC.

2. Despite the above fact, the FG has already deployed help in form of commanding the IGP and the military to put an end to the problems. What more do you want?

HardMirror:
Exactly! You know him. He is a bit bald. Very popular there and respected cos of his independence.
Problem is humans are generally weak and we all want to believe there is an Almighty God watching out for us. But if we really check, we would see that we are the ones always struggling to solve our own problems while giving glory to an imaginary god. As small as osogbo is owver the past 15 years there has been LOTS of crusades with thousands of healings, where are all the so called healed blind men living? Where are all the dumb people speaking? Where are all the lame walking? Where are they living that we don't know them or hear of them after the crusades.

Do you know what it means to be blind and everybody on your street knows you are blind for years and all of a sudden you start seeing for real. Do you think a single muslim will remain on such a street after witnessing God first hand?
Why do you think people are going from church to church looking for answer?
People are looking for answers and they seem to never find it, tho they keep lying to themselves that they have found it.

The blind man from birth that Jesus healed, and the one Peter and John healed, some people still remained unbelievers and persecuted Jesus instead. Nothing new under the sun.

urahara:
COMING SOON. ................


FREED FROM THE SHACKLES OF RELIGION.. BY JOHNNY DON 22



...... HOW I MET MY FREECOCOA. .... BY JOHNNY DON 22



A MUST READ FOR ALL NAIRALANDERS

Oh, that one was never a Christian na. He was born into a home where they go to church, that's all. What happened to cloudgoddess?

ndcide:
Tell me something about the" Libyan terrorists" in Nigerian soil or simply take a chill.

Wherever they come from is not the point. The point is that it is the PRIMARY duty of the state government to ensure security in their state and constituency.

wirinet:
The bolded statement to me is the greatest miracle of Christianity, able to make people feel a deep sense of guilt for something you have no idea of, by people you do not know and living in an era you don't know. How the guilt for the crucifixion of a Jewish man in Palestine some 2000 years ago is put on black Africans living deep in the jungle of Africa in the 20th century is the greatest miracle of time.

We're agreed on this, salvation is the greatest, most consistent, primary and sweetest miracle of all. It happens to people of different classes and race and strata. It is being born again, repentance, atonement, justification, the forgiveness of sins, all in one package. All other things, terms and conditions apply I must say.

ndcide:
The buharideens are kicking themselves. They don't know whether to support Fayose on this or to attack him on this. They just can't swallow the proactive approach.They wished it was coming from buhari, so they can go on a jamboree. Some of them don't know if they;d just allow the terrorist to Kill their people, just to prove fayose wrong.

I can understand how they feel.

Don't forget that the state governor is the chief security officer of his state and is heavily paid to do it. Allow Fayose to his job instead of looking for grandpa Buhari to carry him on his laps. The FG primarily should fight against people who fight against Nigeria like boko haram, kanu and avengers that openly declare war on Nigeria. Herdsmen are not declaring war on Nigeria, instead they are even claiming to be wrongfully accused. Despite this, the FG has ordered the police and military to help bring a stop and solace to the herdsmen situation.

Ben Bruce that printed his book outside Nigeria this year? Abi another Ben Bruce. The Senate BMWs,are they made in Nigeria? Tell me something else abeg.

repogirl:
last time I checked, I am allowed to wail, am I not?

I am allowed to express my feelings, be it lopsided or disjointed, am I not?

Since you think you know better, you can ask the 'relevant' questions on my behalf and leave me to wail my feelings.

No, you're not allowed or permitted to wail, or what will make Buhari a burukutu sipping despotic tyrant? The FG cannot do everything for you, put some pressure on your state governor, local government chairmen, NASS and the Judiciary. Do you have any idea what they do with their budgets? The current FG is leading by example and trying to be open. Instead of you to encourage others to do likewise, you're fault finding. Budget has already been passed into law, expend your energy on better things. i don't know better BTW.

A dead clock is correct twice a day, Fayose has shown those sissy Enugu and Benue governors how to be the chief security officer, though as usual he's politicising it. Even ordinary banks know how to protect their own, but effeminate governors collecting millions in security vote are looking for grandpa Buhari to shield them from herdsmen. Shame.

HardMirror:
Continuation...
To be honest, my strength in the Lord started waxing cold. Something was seriously wrong, I began to wonder, "what has god really done for me?"
Early in the morning, I would take strolls from oba kekere to Oba nla usually from AM or stroll from Apatapiti to futa Junction and back to Futa south gate, praying in spirit, searching my soul for answers.
I was deeply troubled. My mind was fighting all the indoctrinations I had from childhood.

My parents were never christians and did not go to church when I was young.

I recall around 1995 when I watched a movie about Jesus christ (I don't know the title) and how much he suffered and eventually died for our sins. It was on an easter day.
I remember how me my sister and brother all ended up crying, seriously crying and asking God to forgive us our sins. That was the day I got born again. It was a deeply emotional day. I remember that our parent were not at home.
We cried and cried all lying on the floor.

The movie was a touching one, seeing a man suffer so much and at the end of the movie there was a little sermon. Even though I was young, I understood the movie.

I could not just abandon the faith, I had to fight to keep it alive. So from being a leader in my fellowship, I humbled myself and left the fellowship to join the Life Oasis Church (Dream Center) in Akure. The year was 2011.
Then Pastor Charlse was the man Pastor Olusola areogun sent to establish the church in Akure.

I believed I needed to retrace my step and be a student of the bible to regain my conviction of faith.

I became a student and disciple under Pastor charlse. The church was behind Chicken republic Futa Junction.

I remember being taught fundamental things as if I was never a giant in the works of the spirit, but all that did not matter to me. All I wanted was to fall in love with christ all over again. I wanted to be taught like a child again.

I must confess pastor charlse was a great teacher. I remember how he opened his home to us and how much time he spent with us sharing the word of God with us. Nuturing us. This was despite him being a medical doctor and barely having enough time for himself and family, yet he gave it all for us.

Despite all this, here I am, a none believer. And a proud one.

This was the last effort I made to save my faith, but once you know the truth, telling lies to yourself becomes ridiculously hard. It was not working. The god of the bible remained as fake as fake could be.

Wonderful salvation experience you had, recall and shared unlike dankol and so many others who were never in Christ but think they were. Your experience though at not having someone healed are not strange or strong enough to make you fall. There must have been some other gradual things which made the experience what "broke the camel's back". Maybe you may not recall though, or didnt reflect well.
2Pe 2:19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.
2Pe 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
2Pe 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
2Pe 2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

kolawaxxy:
All thanks to nairaland. I don't know what to believe anymore

Believing in nothing is the most lazy thing ever. Believe in God the Lord Jesus.

urahara:
That is why i so love the case of amputees. There is obviously no room to try to fake an amputee miracle. And this is why we say thag since with yahweh qll things are possible , why has no pastor never ever ever even attempted to even try to heal an amputeee.

For amputess. There is no way tge placebo effect can cause the limbs to grow back. The day i see an amputee get his limbs back that day i ll beliv in the supernatural

Coming from the lazy thinking you have read on the internet i guess. i've seen God heal people from stroke, cancer, HIV, rheumatism, kidney problem, total blindness etc. The people who got them do not think it was faked, they knew they were whole.
Joh 9:26 Then said they to him again, What did he to thee? how opened he thine eyes?
Joh 9:27 He answered them, I have told you already, and ye did not hear: wherefore would ye hear it again? will ye also be his disciples?

You do not need to believe in the supernatural, what you need is to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved.

urahara:
FRONT PAGE , FRONT PAGE , FRONT PAGE


This kind of explains a lot. I have a neighbour who is deaf and dumb but can still manage to pronounce words
Like one . two. Three . come. Go.

Now funny enough in the healing services i have attended when the man of god prays for the deaf and dumb and when they keep on saying d few word they are able to say, the man of god , and the rest of the gullible church members including me would take this as a divine miracle.i Never ever could see thru dis sham

No doubt, there are many fakes and the scriptures even warn of them. Just like we have many fake electronics all over the Nigerian market. However, there are also real miracles, and there are miracles from God. Not all miracles are from God BTW.

HardMirror:
Continuation...

Can anybody name anyone that genuinely got healed at that crusade or Rev. Reinhard Bonkke's crusade? There is NONE. So where are all the people they claimed they healed?

This is most ridiculous, close minded and myopic. So because you did not experience something, therefore it is safe to conclude that no one has ever experienced it? You were not even at the crusade yet you claim rubbish. You claimed earlier that some were healed in the crusade you went, then the next day not many. Are you possessed with different contradicting spirits?
For one, i have a sister who was healed in a crusade Bite yourself.

HardMirror:
Continuation....
I got back to the camp ground and activities were still same there. The brethren were praying mostly in tongues, the preacher was still busy with the witches, the witches were still performing their signature dance showing that that holy ghost fire was really roasting the demons in them, people were still praying and onlookers were still looking and enjoying the entertainment from the fringes of the crusade ground. Mostly men.

I even spotted a group of men sitting and drinking beer while the watched and laughed most likely enjoying the show from their village witches. How I envy those men now. I looked at them with pity and anger. I could not believe what my eyes were seeing.

I angrily matched to them, a bible tucked under one of my arms. "Evening my daddies" I said in yoruba with respect.
"Why do you people sit and drink,... Blah blah blah " . I started preaching to them. About hell and their soul and drinking and everything. Opening the bible and reading to them.

It was obvious the devil had concluded this people's matter and even god most have given up on them, because they kept on smiling and sipping their drinks, whiles glancing over my shoulders to peek at the show the witches were giving. How I wish now that I sat with them and ordered suya and a cold bottle of stout and yogurt, relax and also enjoy the show.
Well I was ignorant then so don't blame me.

I asked them to close their eyes and let me pray for them. Surprisingly they cooperated.
I prayed and left them and they continued their drinking.

Then I saw the dumb boy! He was with his dad and mum. They were in line for prayers from the man of God!
I was excited! I quickly looked for my brother in christ to let him know I had found the dumb boy we prayed for.

What i get here is a self acclaimed atheist confirming to all, especially his colleagues that not everything seen in crusades are stage managed. Good one.

Yes, to the OP and the other narratives as planned.

HardMirror:
CONTINUATION...

THE DUMB BOY WHO SPOKE! Hallelujah!!!

Please Remember This Is Not Fiction, The events that Happened.

I had a brother in christ then who is currently an evangelist (missionary) in India. He was a 2 years my senior though a year my junior in age. In the fellowship this was the brother matured enough to discuss serious things with. You could never guess his age because of his maturity. In fact when he was not made the fellowship president many members were upset thinking he was most deserving. Instead he was made the bible study coordinator.
Iron sharpens iron and so did we sharpen each other in matters of the scriptures. Always examining our lives and encouraging each other to stand firm in what is true. There was no room for lies.

In one of our many outreaches, this brother and I prayed for a dumb boy and the boy spoke! Yes, we prayed in the name of Jesus Christ and the boy spoke instantly! What events lead to this and what happened after.

2005 or 2006 there was a great crusade in the town of osogbo. It was Dr. Samson Ayorinde! Before him was Reverend Reinhard Bonkke . I was unable to be at the Bonkke Crusade, but I was at that of Samson Ayorinde. I am very sure the crowd would be in the hundred of thousands. The crowd was MASSIVE. This man was healing people as if it was childs play. That day I saw blind men regain their sight! I saw lame walk! I saw dumb people start to speak! I saw deaf people regain their ability to hear!
The atmosphere was charged! It seemed anything could happen in that atmosphere.
Wow!!! So our God is this Real!!!
So all that I was seeing on tv was true!
Many people only came to see miracles! Infact if the man had failed to do miracles I am sure many people would have angrily left.
With what I have read in the bible, with what I had read in "God's Generals", with what I see on TV, With what I have witnessed at this crusade, I said to myself, "I will NEVER doubt God."

The next day we got to the crusade ground early so we could get a good seating space at the front. Trust human beings, the crowd was even more today because it had been confirmed that the man of God was indeed a Powerful Man of God.

So when he started calling out for blind people, the number of blind people was much higher now. Same for deaf, same for dumb people!
BUT something was wrong this time. Majority were not healed.

Well, it could only mean they did not have faith or they had sins in their lives. Afterall is it not God that healed the remaining few that were heal?

So I did not let that even bother me. Na dem sabi. All I know is I have seen God heal others and that is good enough for me.

Fast forward 5 or 6 years latter, here I was with this brother in a village, with a dumb boy. We were there to invite people for the crusade that would be holding that evening. The boy was alone at home and he indicated to us that he could not speak. I remembered how jesus sent his disciples two by two into the towns and villages to preach and how they came back with testimonies of the mighty works of God.
The Holy Spirit was using that to speak to me. I asked my partner if he also felt convinced that the boy would speak if we prayed for him.

So we laid hands on him and commanded his tongue loose.

Instantly This boy began to speak!
Hallelujah!!!
What!
The Dumb boy spoke!!!!

We knelt and praised God!

We were so modest we did not even tell anyone. We just left we were sure the parents would run to the crusade to testify that their son has started speaking.

It's unfortunate you were not at the Bonnke crusade. From experience, not trying to act like a judge though, Bonnke is legit Ayorinde isn't. Ayorinde's crusade couldn't be in hundreds of thousands, do you know what hundreds of thousands is? Or you were counting ants? A full average stadium doesn't sit up to 100,000 to give you some perspective. My point is that in your missing this simple logical detail even till date, it shows you can be very wrong in many more aspects.
In a charged atmosphere, anything can happen both real and unreal. i wouldn't advice anyone to seek miracles foolishly or seek charged atmospheres. many things can charge up an atmosphere BTW, not just the Spirit of God. In fact, not usually the Spirit of God. Bible says to prove all things. What made you to scam yourself? Why did you not prove your healing before leaving. Your naivety and ignorance is yours, not God's.

dankol:
[b]CHAPTER NINE
CONTINUUM
All things being equal, that was insubordination, and I ought to be punished. She raised the issue with the workers on Sunday morning with her husband present. I suspect, the husband disagreed with her when it was discussed at home. So when she raised it, the man collected the microphone, and asked that, I see him after service. I was like, yes, the die is cast. I went to his office after service, I was surprised the way he approached the matter. At the end, he exonerated me and asked me to leave. His point was, I was not aggressive and not insultive, I was just making a statement of fact that, I do not like being touched on the head, but she could say her gibberish. So as I was about to leave, the wife came in, she stood by the door and began to look at me, she said “ Brother Dankol, why are you so sturborn yet calm like this”. I just laughed and left. That was the last time I had clash with her. Things were as good as normal.
Sincerely, I saw it as a test of character and faith. Yea, I just broke into the choir and displaced several persons just like that without expecting a fight? No, I should have, even though I was not expecting one having in mind that, it is the house of God. It made me realize that, it is the house of God, but controlled by other gods (Men) and as such, these gods will not let you pour sand into their garri. I may not like fame, but it naturally comes to me because of what I do and how I do it. And people get pissed off because of that, to make their matter worse, I seem not to care about how others feel about it. I really learnt a big lesson.
UI refused me admission, my co-fellowship founder and the new fellowship lords, got admission. The day that list came out was the day I knew I was strong emotionally- the choleric thing. It was a Friday, I went to the café to check, it read, “NO ADMISSION FOR JAMB NO: xxxxxxxxxx”. I was so so disappointed. I went back to school; I saw gloomy faces. Most of them already cried one bucket but were being consoled by my co-founder. Well, I do not know where their new fellowship lords were that day, but I recall, I gathered everyone, and gave them a word of encouragement. That day, many of them respected me the more because, I am also experiencing the disappointment they encountered, yet I kept calm. But seriously, I was a waiting dam under intense pressure to explode but, I can’t do it openly until I got to my room. I cried a river. I sat on my bed, thinking, see my life? All my sacrifices? All I was running around for? Abi na foundational curse? I recall, it was then I began to take the foundational curse issue serious, I began to trace by history and lineage. I realize that my Great Grand Father was an Ifa priest. I said, Alas! This is the root of my problem. Na so I start to dey bind and cast o. Even when that thought of questioning God came, the foundational curse thing was where the blame was absorbed. In fact, I wrote a book, I try to publish it but never did anyway.
In all my life till then, I have never sat for such a long time to study. Throughout my secondary school, I was not the reading type, but I make the A(s) and B(s). This one wey I read pass medical student sef. I passed the Pre-degree program cut-off but I learnt, my NECO result was the undoing. UI give a so much shit about your grades. The higher the number of A(s) and B(s), the higher your changes (I do not know if its still the same till now anyway). So I lost admission. I was too ashamed to go back home because, every God damn person knows am in school. They are not interested to know what kind of school. School na School. So what will I tell them?
This last question was what propelled me to move to Lagos to stay with my aunt.
[/b]

Funny though sad story, sad because of the unfortunate set of people you found yourselves with. Like a saying goes, while here on earth pain is inevitable, but suffering is optional. You chose to suffer from your pains. Everyone passes through pain one way or the other, and at one point or the other. We are not yet in "Heaven" where there is no more pain. Not gaining admission or any other sort of failure should rather inspire you to try again, see where you missed it, instead of blaming God and using your 'sacrifice' as bribe for God to give you admission. May God help you sha, you need it.

PastorAIO:
The bible is for the most part a compilation of texts written by humans using their human understanding.

Should they have used animal understanding, or what other understanding are you familiar with. We all know humans wrote the Bible, it did not fall out of the sky. Christians however say that God authored it.

The bible has been subjected to all the vicissitudes of history that such texts would normally go through.

So?

The bible has been used as a political tool, by investing it with an authority and calling it the foundation of christianity it has been used to attack the political power of the Roman Catholic church.

Anything can be used, misused and abused. That does not negate its right use.

The above are just a few examples of what the bible is, just to put you in the light.

Praise you i guess, you finally got me out of darkness. What next?

tonio2wo:
No! But its stated in d budget.

No,it's not.