₦airaland Forum

vooks:
Just about every other ministry have a website which cost next to nil to run. Then you have youtube. What is the big deal with availing the sermons through these channels?
They are afraid that if they sold what is available freely, few would buy the DVDs. So it is not lack of technology that prevents them but business acumen

I have estimated that the cost of producing a single DVD to be less than USD 0.5 thanks to China. I have done this so I know first hand.

So, upload as much content to YouTube or your website and then sell them cds and DVDS dirt cheap. The only reason they don't follow this intuitive route is GAIN

Concerning the medical programmes, that is no proof that free is bad, it is poverty and ignorance at play. I have seen queues at free eye clinics. But you are right, basic aid does little to transform the Negro. Negro needs education and more education not free lunch

Cc Image123

Actually, not just about every other ministry have a website. You seem to be referring to the major/popular ministries. There are hundreds of thousands of other ministries just here in Nigeria alone, so i don't suggest it will be level to make an assessment based on the popular few. My point and i think NLM and others have been the receiving end, not the giving end. Uploading or open source from the ministry is not the real issue. The real issue is the delivery of that upload. Not many people get that here in Nigeria as we have explained, due to poor internet and expensive data bundles. i do not know of many popular ministry that you cannot get their messages on youtube or on their websites. You can access Oyedepo's messages on youtube, all of the last Shiloh too. Same goes for Redeem(RCCG), and i think DeeperLife(on the church website), MFM, and i'm talking about recent messages as well.
We are not talking about the cost of an empty CD or DVD here. We are talking about a group of people that are involved in production, which is not volunteer. We are talking about maintaining quality video cameras and equipment, employing cameramen(in the plural), the other crew that do studiowork, editing, putting in Bible verses, sorting out audio mp3 formats, interpreting and other things, packaging and printing, and then sales. It's a self sustaining piece, not a charity. You're requesting the best audio quality, the best picture quality, the best graphics etc and there is usually a full time set of staff that are to be paid for doing this, and they should be paid relatively well. And there is a projection that this venture has little or no hassles and is sustainable, not going to pack up in 6months. Vooks,
Ecc 10:19 A feast is made for laughter, and wine maketh merry: but money answereth all things.

PastorAIO:
stop being a muppet. I haven't stop anyone from appealing to authority. I have only encouraged you and others to do research. But you can take a donkey to the river but you cannot force the donkey to drink.

Of course you have. When you call the Bible an erroneous book whose authorship is unknown to us, you have technically stopped us from appealing to it. You have rejected infallible scriptures for a confused man who does not even know where he is going. Who told you we have not done research. What makes you think that you're the only one who has done research or reads or studies, while does not with your view point are the gullible lazy ones? What brings you to the fallacious assumption that only those with your views are critical thinkers while others are dumb donkeys who cannot be forced to think or drink?

actually if you are paying attention I did not say that biblical authorship is known to anyone. Wake up and pay attention.

Oh so it is not known to you or your authority? And because of that, it can safely be assumed that it is unknown to me?

Okay, so what do these brilliant men of honour of yours have to say about biblical authorship, let's examine it. Present their research.

They all say it is authored by God. You put up a debate video as your research. i'm sorry, you have put up mine too. The video contains two 'scholars' on opposing assessments. i'll put up a summary in my subsequent posts though.

oh, btw, Bart Ehrman also[b] Studied, Preached and Practiced[/b] the Bible for decades.

You have to be joking i am certain. Ehrman is 59years old and has being a confused atheist agnostic for more than 16 years. That means he was at most 43years old before he became fully deluded. He had his BA at 23years and MDiv at 26. He claims to have become born again as a teenager and became CONVINCED that there were contradictions and discrepancies inthe Bible DURING his graduate studies. Where then did he preach or practice the Bible for decades? i'm calling Lane, Lewis, Zacharias, Kumuyi and Adeboye. And i didn't mention in name the likes of C.I Scofield, G.K Chesterton, Walter Scotts, C.R Erdman, Dakes and all the unmentioned brilliant men of honour who spent their lives, academia and resources in studying and translating the Bible. And you bring up a learner? For God's sake, i can well bring up my own name and moniker compared to Bart. Don't be preposterous please.i said men who have studied and practiced and preached the Bible for decades, who themselves are intelligent minds with a palpable relationship with God

vooks:
Image123,
1. One can listen to bits if the sermon is broken down to as many bits and all are recorded on ONE DVD. So preferences have nothing to do with burning several DVDS. Good point though.

Unnecessary splitting is of course unnecessary.

2. Buying is never by force as far as I am concerned. And it need not. There is a thirst for the word I hope,it is cashing in on this that I detest. Whenever the government or not-for-profit organisations want to reach out to the masses, they go cheap or free be it condoms or mosquito nets and polio vaccines. Only on NL do I hear that expensive disperses further and wider.

Yes, i also do not like cashing in in this context. Like nlm and others have said, production and salaries cost money. Note that i am justifying a just sale, not irreconcilable gain. Making CDs and DVDs cost some money, so also the purchase and licensing. those monies have to come from somewhere. Some subsidize if there are generous and able donors in the background. What you call free and cheap is actually subsidy, paid heavily for by someone else. Sales of sermons do not have to be EXPENSIVE, i didn't imply expensive but sold.

3. What's the difference? You receive a revelation and the first Christian instinct is to share it. You are comfortable sharing it to hundreds for free but you have the urge to charge to take it further?

There is an obvious genuine purpose for charging for dvds, they cost more. It is not really the sermon or the message that is being sold i suppose. It is the DVD that contains the sermons.

4. Open source concept is simple; the software is free but the user pays for distributing it. Just charge COST for the messages which is next to nil. Why should you copy profiteers? Imagine Peter discovering that guys are actually willing to pay him so he can lay hands on them. Would he be justified in accepting their payments?

Again, i don't think as many people know about these open source methods, how to go about it, etc as compared to their ease of straight forward getting it with money. While it may be simple to you and you know about softwares and co, not many are as tech-savvy as you are. The majority of the people that i know here in Nigeria cannot buy a computer or a phone on their own, many cannot open a facebook account or email account without the help of another. i'm talking about the majority of people that actually spend monies to buy dvds etc. Then theree is a MAJOR problem with internet here in Nigeria. Internet to stream or download is NOT for everybody, both speed and data as considerations. Even if i put a dvd on open source for instance. One would need maybe at least 50mb - 200mb to download one message. The data gets much more if the video quality is good/high. Most Nigerians would rather buy a dvd than download 200mb or more, that's if the speed/network is even there. Again, when you mention profiteers, you refer to excessive profits and high prices. i simply refer to basic cost price and selling price. Nobody is selling the Holy Ghost or salvation, neither can they. What is sold is physical services rendered in production and editing and studio work.

frosbel:
^^^

You are too emotional to have an objective debate with , how can you learn when you only see ONE narrow point of view ?

Kindly go and answer me as you said you would on this thread.

vooks:
Here is what I have observed
1. Unnecessary splitting of messages into several DVDS to make a 'series'. A 2 hour sermon that can comfortably sit on a dvd is split into 40 minutes bits,a set of 3 DVDS sold of course at the price of 3.

2. Most of the DVDS are bought by people who watched the pastor live. These are the same members who support ministry and as such there is no need to profit from them

3. Charging for DVDS is one step away from charging for Live sermons

4. Selling merchandise is always restrictive;fewer benefit. Don't tell me that 'mature' believers know the value of the message exceeds the cost

Personally, I favor the open source approach like Linux. I can download at. My expense a Hirens Boot CD and burn it but ordering a CD costs me. In short, free resources but believers pay the small cost of distribution.

Cc
NLMediator
Image123
esere826

1. Unnecessary splitting is of course unnecessary. Though some people like/prefer to hear or be taught in bits like nlm has said.
2. Buying should not be by force. People buy for different reasons. To share with a friend, colleague, 'evangelism', for further and future purpose, for those that missed the service etc.
3. Charging for live sermons is not charging for dvds.
4. Selling takes the messages far, and those who buy usually share with me for free, lol.
I don't think as many people know about these open source methods, how to go about it, etc as compared to their ease of straight forward getting it with money. At least not here in Nigeria where Internet speed and data bundles are more of favour from God Himself. Another thing is, if the churches don't sell, others will. They will package dvds, shirts, caps, books that you can't recall writing, umbrella etc live. And they will even sell it in front of your church to your members after church service, and in bookstores nationwide.

PastorAIO:
The following is a debate between Ehrmann and another bible scholar called Daniel Wallace who is one of those you call 'brilliant men of honour'.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kg-dJA3SnTA

Okay, that's your view's research. Thanks. I'll watch, and get back to you tomorrow.

PastorAIO:
stop being a muppet. I haven't stop anyone from appealing to authority. I have only encouraged you and others to do research. But you can take a donkey to the river but you cannot force the donkey to drink.




actually if you are paying attention I did not say that biblical authorship is known to anyone. Wake up and pay attention.



Okay, so what do these brilliant men of honour of yours have to say about biblical authorship, let's examine it. Present their research.

oh, btw, Bart Ehrman also[b] Studied, Preached and Practiced[/b] the Bible for decades.

Please i beg you, present your view's research first.

Hahahahaha, is President Jonathan a christian or follower of Christ?

PastorAIO:
Every opinion is an appeal to Authority. Just you like appeal to the authority of the Bible, a text whose authorship is unknown to you.

Between the authority of an erroneous book and the authority of men who've dedicated their lives to studying the matter, who are you more willing to consider.

And please note, I said consider, not believing without any critical examination. The fact that the leading scholars on a subject think one thing is enough for me to go and do research and take a critical look at their claims. That is all I ever asked of JoshtheFirst and I ask the same thing of you. I'm not a penterascal pastor trying to make you suspend critical judgment.

Perhaps you can bring us a list of those other professors that have differing opinions and let us critically examine their opinions.

So, you appeal to authority to stop others from appealing to other authority, basically. Hahaha.
And you assume that biblical authorship is unknown to me but known to your authority.
I am more willing to consider men who have studied and practiced and preached the Bible for decades, who themselves are intelligent minds with a palpable relationship with God, like the many brilliant men of honour who spent their lives, academia and resources in studying and translating the Bible, not to mention contemporaries like Lane, Lewis, Zacharias, Kumuyi and Adeboye. I'll take those at any time t ahead of blind Bart Ehrman who went from pretender christian fundamentalist to atheist and agnostic all together.

BabaGnoni:
You got me beat.

Say no more, we've found a fellow who doesn't.

GooseBaba:
The REALITY you say...smh.. How is reading a book filled with superstition and dog shiiit our collective realities..
To pry mine, dig, extract and refine from written works of men is the ultimate mind game..
How does one quantify or measure these actions..? Let me guess.. Delusion.. All praise and honour belongs to allegory and metaphor.. Amen..!

GooseBaba:
The REALITY you say...smh.. How is reading a book filled with superstition and dog shiiit our collective realities..

To pry mine, dig, extract and refine from written works of men is the ultimate mind game..

How does one quantify or measure these actions..? Let me guess.. Delusion.. All praise and honour belongs to allegory and metaphor.. Amen..!

Use the facts, don't fight them.

PastorAIO:
The Audio is not just of any mere man, but of Bart Ehrmann, who is one of the world's leading scholar on NT textual criticism and what he does in the audio if you listen carefully is claim that his statement that the gospels are not historically accurate is not a quirk of his but a widely held opinion amongst biblical scholars in all the top leading academic institutions in the US. Many of the scholars are themselves christians.

Now if you want to dismiss the claim of the world's leading scholars without even considering why they conclude that the gospels are not historical then that is totally up to you. But I believe that the reasonable thing to do is to at least consider their arguments and do some research yourself.

Rubbish fallacy of appeal to authority. Widely held opinion in his village. So the others that hold different views are mere men illiterates or is he the first person to be professor?

BabaGnoni:
Good you noticed that too

Who doesn't too?

@OP,
God of course, who else.

BabaGnoni:
Aye, however in the beginning, it was not so
In the beginning accelerated knowledge and precious metals were easily available and freely flowing in Eden
unlike now that valuable minerals, precious stones, knowledge or information etcetera (e.g. diamonds, gold, petroleum etc) have to be dug up, extracted, unearthened and refined with sweat, blood, tears and toils

We are not in the beginning.

vooks:
I have always wondered why pastas resist embracing technology such as Youtube and they disseminate sermons freely.
DVDs too. I buy the blanks at around ten to the USD. Throw in the burning and the label usually done by volunteers and church equipments. A DVD costs far less than USD 0.5. Why then do we have DVDs, messages especially series going for up to USD 50?

Are they not guilty of presenting the gospel 'with charge'?

1 Corinthians 9:18 King James Version (KJV)
18 What is my reward then? Verily that, when I preach the gospel, I may make the gospel of Christ without charge, that I abuse not my power in the gospel.

There are some that make gain from it. There are some that have it on YouTube. However, i doubt if 90% of people have access to as much Internet as to watch or stream messages. Even those that have are not always graced with good network here in Nigeria. Once you buy your message, it's yours and you can use it repeatedly. By the way, the original live message is usually free, and buying for subsequent listening or view is not compulsory. Just my opinion though.

GooseBaba:
Why should the truth be hidden in the first place. Is it a game..?

I guess when pastors are busy making up stuff, they are simply looking for the truth..

Ominimpotent still hiding things in the year 2015.. Smh

The reality before us is that precious things are hidden to us, and we need to pry, mine, dig, extract and refine. That is life, not a game.

frosbel:
Goshen I dey come ooo, I am having to educate so many baby bible scholars this evening ( NOT YOU of course ) , this space reserved................

I is patiently waiting too.

efficiencie:
It's all gud bro! We don't have to agree...God's Spirit will teach us some more and bring us to the unity of faith...

Ephesians 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

He gave us apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers for our perfection TILL we all come in the unity of the faith.

efficiencie:
Well bro with respect to your grudge against paulgrundy i believe if we are brothers we need not bear grudges against one another...we many not agree but i trust the HolyGhost to unite us in mind and doctrine...

With respect to TBJ, i'd advice you, as Gamaliel did in Acts 5:34-39, thread softly with your words...if TBJ's ministry is fake it won't last and both him and his teachings would be forgotten but if he's of God then be careful with your words against him...you may be hurting the God that called him.

Like islam right? Or the million other religions that are lasting. If it is by works, he has scored a lot of criticism and unscriptural practices. Let someone bring up his doctrines/teachings maybe he will try small there.

calaway:
OH I GET IT NOW, NO MATTER HOW EVIL THEY COME, THEY ARE STILL BETTER THAN GEJ BUHARI INCLUSIVE? I GIVE UP ON YOU COS YOU ARE LOST TO LOGICAL RIGHT REASON AND BLINDED BY BORN TO RULE AMBITION THAT HAS BEEN TRYING TO SABOTAG AND RUBBISH GEJ SINCERE EFFORTS. MY PARTING SHOT TO YOU IS.....

GEJ TILL 2019

Of course you can not answer my simple and straightforward questions. How evil do they come? As evil as GEJ's fathers(IBB and OBJ)? What born to rule rubbish are you talking about? We are asking that you stop calumny and engage in objective and balanced thinking. May the better candidate win. You don't need a Buhari or prophet to tell you that there will be post election violence IF there is rigging and the people feel their mandate is stolen, meditate on that.

calaway:
the is what the respected Dr. frederick fasheun has to say about Buhari:

“General Buhari has often been painted as the Messiah Nigerians have been waiting for. This is turning truth and logic on the head. For the avoidance of doubt, General Buhari is not the saviour Nigeria has been waiting for. The truth is that under Buhari's "Holier-Than-Thou" facade lurks a smelly throat of evil.”

and if you like music this is waht fela has to say about buhari:" ANIMAL IN A CRAZED MAN'S SKIN"

ENJOY THE SOUND OF WISDOM FROM THE GREAT ONE AGBAMI EDA. TIME 4.16








https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEMLFwBxrzI

I don't care what fasheun or anyone has to say if he can't equally say something about GEJ. The present administration is in no way our messiah as well, they have assured us of that for six years.
While i don't revere the view of hemp smokers, you can be sure that fela would have had no kind words for the current administration as well. Obasanjo threw fela's mother from a storey building upstairs. He is one of GEJ's mentors and fathers. That is apart from IBB who is like evil personified, whom GEJ recently called his father.

Image123:
^
We don't need copy and paste, we just need simple answers.
That speech was made before elections, yes or no? Why has the government not picked him up if he is responsible for the violence?

I asked two very clear and simple questions, try and answer them without further drama. I was very straight and specific as to THAT speech. The speech in the video that you claimed was made AFTER elections.

efficiencie:
Ma bro, unless u jst wana argue! read my comment honestly:



I explained giving without love...and giving with love... TBJ does that...

I read your comment honestly already, whatever that means. I stand by my post.

^
We don't need copy and paste, we just need simple answers.
That speech was made before elections, yes or no? Why has the government not picked him up if he is responsible for the violence?

CAPTIVATOR:
God will not treat Satan, he will " Crush Satan" and destroy him instead ( Rom 16:20).

He already bruised the devil at Calvary na. Genesis 3: 15, remember? After bruising, there was no annihilation. What gives you the confidence that there will be annihilation after crushing? Especially when the Bible clearly states otherwise.
Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night forever and ever

" so that through his death He MIGHT destroy the one who has the means to cause death, the devil" Heb 2:14
! "Might" is use to refer to a possible future event , E.G I MIGHT come to ur house ! Grab that.

4 nw .... Satan still rule the world, he hasnt been destroyed ( 1 joh 5:19) !

No, don't change english for us sir. "MIGHT" refers to possibility. Possibility can be anytime past, present or future, depending on context. In this context, it already happened before us or before it was written. Check out the various places 'might'is used in the new testament Bible. It is usually of something that has taken place already before the writer penned it. Grab this.
Joh 10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
Mat 1:22 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,
Jesus came so that we MIGHT have life. We have that life, we are not waiting for the distant future to have it. Check out all the various "might be fulfilled" statements, they were already fulfilled. Through Jesus' death, the devil was destroyed. Jess died that that might happen. His death made that possible. While the world lies in wickedness, all power belongs to Jesus. Satan and sin should not have dominion over you. You should be a part of God's kingdom, God's reign. this is basic let your kingdom come.

What happen to death and grave help to understand the meanin of lake of fire.

Death and grave is thrown into lake of fire is a symbolic language ( Rev 20:14, Rev 1:1 )... It means " Death will Be No More" Rev 21:4 ! And when death is no more , the grave automatically cease to exist .

What did the grave present when it gave up the dead in it? Death will be no more IN the new earth, because of course, it was thrown into the lake in the previous chapter. There will be no more dying for the people of God. Also, death will not be able to kill anybody in the lake of fire. Death and hell are cast into the lake of fire before the people. So death itself is powerless to help put anyone out of his/her misery in the lake of fire. It is etenal punishment all the way.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

frosbel:
Sporadic throwing around of bible verses is not a mark of an exemplary bible student.

Let me try and juggle your thinking a little.

Jesus said this in Mark 9 :48
It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell, where
“‘the worms that eat them do not die,
and the fire is not quenched.’[d]

Even the bible compilers, added note d below ( a direct reference to where Jesus quotes from Isaiah 66:24 )

Isaiah 66:24 :
24 “And they will go out and look on the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; the worms that eat them will not die, the fire that burns them will not be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind.”

There are three things to note here ;

1. This was in reference to the same event, not a separate event. To suggest otherwise is deceptive.
2. The people being referred to are clearly dead bodies.
3. The fire will not be quenched till the bodies are all burnt up - ref / Malachi 4:3

You are desperately trying to divide these two statements as if they are not related, this is how deception works, forcing your false doctrine into scripture.

It would help you if you will calm your nerves and learn instead of sorry attempts to juggle other's thinking. i did not dispute Mark 9 :48's correlation with Isaiah 66. Instead, i explained it to you but you missed the bus. Maybe i should number the staements so that you can tell me the part you are not clear with or the part where you think i'm wrong.
1. Isaiah 66 talks about the second COMING of Christ Jesus.
2. The second coming is also referred to as the millenial reign or 1000year reign of Jesus Christ on earth. This is corroborated in Revelations.
3. Those unfortunate fellows who die during the second coming(Isaiah 66 and Rev 19: 21) are going to be raised at the White throne judgement(Revelations 20:12-15).
4. They and all other sinners would be thrown into where the worms that eat them will not die, the fire that burns them will not be quenched.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
This lake of fire is the hell fire that Jesus talked about as hell fire.

Again, you depict a knack for being unable to correctly divide the word of truth due to the brainwashing syndrome

The Internet is the greatest invention of mankind . From it , we can glean through tons of information on various topics to extract the data we need, analyse it, study it and make informed decisions based on objectivity and not emotional instability.

To want to prevent believers from researching on the Internet , shows the kind of dark mind that prevailed during the middle ages with the unfortunate consequence of superstitious rubbish that was been paraded as truth .

Besides a Pastor is not an authority on the word of God contrary to your perception. A Pastor is simply just another brother who is an elder in the church and has the skills according to the gift of God to gently and kindly shepherd the flock of God. He is not a doctrinal guru or an infallible figure in relation to things of religion. It is you and your ilk who have made them into the semi-gods that they are today hence the winds of doctrine breezing all over the place with the aftermath of over 40,000 denominations of which most have Ichabod written on their church doors.

We have the following teachers :
"As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit--just as it has taught you, remain in him." - 1 John 2:27

"No longer will they teach their neighbor, or say to one another, 'Know the LORD,' because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest," declares the LORD. "For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more." - Jeremiah 31:34

i have not prevented people from reading whether by books or internet. You are the one preventing people from reading IF it does not support your position. You are the one poisoning other's minds against whatever their pastors say, calling it tradition or old fashion lies. Kinly show us any place where i have wanted to prevent believers from researching on the Internet. Of course you cannot, why, because you are a liar.
i have not described a pastor or given any opinions about who a pastor is, so don't make up any for me. Don't paint me any colour you wish, like you paint people who are not here. i am here and i will likely respond. Again, you want to teach us through the internet, but you are twisting scriptures to tell us not to listen to other teachers like our pastors. You are an hypocrite.

Image123, I am having difficulty logicalising your incoherency and haphazard approach to debating on serious issues. Not sure what the context is for the above scripture quotation, but it is obvious that there will be false prophets and Christs who draw people away from God with their heresies and doctrines of demons. In fact the majority of your churches in Nigeria are saturated with these sort of people.

You were the one that naively told someone that "If he has the Spirit of Christ he will not be deceived, besides the web site is a Christian web site quoting bible scripture not books from the 6 books of Moses." You said that if someone has the Spirit of Christ, he will not be deceived. i simply called you to order. One can have the Spirit of Christ and be deceived if one is careless.

Again, incoherent nonsense, please rephrase.

No need to re-phrase. If you read my posts, you would have seen that i later noticed that you do not believe that the devil will be tormented forever and ever. "never shalt thou be any more" in Ezekiel 28 means that he will not exist anymore in the land of life, or of the living Meanwhile in the lake where hell and death themselves are thrown, devil will be there. Death will be powerless to help his cause or put him out of his misery, and that would secondarily apply to other inhabitants of that dreadful place. When the Bible is promising no more pain, no more sorrow, of course the promise is not for the inhabitants of hell.

lastmessenger:
If you don't know what is ROR then I can tell you. Another guy name for it is messenger angel. Why should I dodge you. If all the scriptures that Frosbel is giving to you is not making sense to you then is it
My own that will make sense.
Bros park well.I know where you belong. When your pastor supported immorality you were busy all over internet defending him.When an idea is not coming from your pastor it won't make sense to you.

If you can tell me what ROR is, why are you not telling me already? Which one is messenger angel again, guy/lady, are you talking in parables? Abeg, make things plain, share knowledge and help a brother out.You are dodging. You said that "other passages made us know that God will actually destroy both soul and body in hell." i asked "What are the other passages that make us know that God will actually destroy soul and body in hell.". You know what you said? You said "No need because I know you too well."
That is dodging, so stop asking why you should dodge. Am i to give you reasons to dodge again or what? Simply tell us "What are the other passages that make us know that God will actually destroy soul and body in hell." Is frob your leader or pastor or daddy? Why did you decide to put yourself under him? Why do you think you cannot make sense if frosb doesn't make sense? Why are you allowing frosb to subvert your soul? Don't you know that he is not interested in going anywhere? He is not a christian, he is not born again, he does not want to go to heaven etc. You can ask him, he will confirm these things to you. You would rather follow such a person in the name of what?
You don't know where you belong. You offend me and make a mistake (as you are concerning this hell issue) with all you accuse me of. i don't recall my pastor supporting immorality or my being busy all over internet defending him. You do offend me by saying such.