₦airaland Forum

Death and Life in the power of the tongue. It's the right thing to speak peace and a step to having what you say as the likes of Asari Dokubo are threatening death and violence with their tongue. True christians must counter such and pull down strongholds. God bless Nigeria. God bless pastor Kumuyi and all that fear God.

Asari Dokubo should be the one reporting at police station. How can't the presidency put this popular people to order? How won't unknown boko haram look like goliath when known thugs do what they like and get away with it.

Pope Francis is 78yrs old, Pastor Kumuyi is 74yrs old, Pastor Adeboye is 73yrs old. These men are all older than Buhari. They are not senile. They are doing a very good job of leading people in more sensitive roles and nobody is wishing them death. We should stop all this disregard for elderly people.

But where is WAEC in all this? Is WAEC office in the moon? Don't they have records?

watered:
My guy u are being too personal on Fayose. Even the Fayose who made d statement was only protecting his job and his interest. Who told you he doesn't know the truth; he's only being political and you and I know it? All the ills APC spew against PDP everyone knows its bigotry. And you come dey here dey binu for Fayose. Guy better go drink cold water and eat bread

Guy, i have taken cold drink and bread. Fayose was too brash and personal with his advert. Nigeria is not lawless ekiti. You don't use people's lives to play politics, you don't use bible or koran to play politics.

watered:
He's wasting his time










GEJ till 2019

Ridiculous, can Fayose beat his chest that he himself will surely outlive Buhari? Is he the Owner of life? Is he God? Who knows who will wake up tomorrow but for God's mercies?

And you don't think there's anything wrong with such a command?

thehomer 16012015: Evil men see the evil commanded by their God yet call it good.

No, because it is Old testament and because God is the Owner, Giver and Creator of all human life having the rights to take it and give it. And also because there is a much longer afterlife in which all innocent people will be in paradise irrespective of how they died on earth.
Pro 28:5 Evil men understand not judgment: but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

My entire posts show a good use of reasoning.

You could be more specific. You have not shown or demonstrated that you know more or better than anybody. You have told us that your supporting hate and abortion is meaningless. You have displayed that you have no value for human life but you are only interested in telling us that God is evil. What then should we call you, an advocate for the millions of abortions that take place annually?

Yet you support the command given by your God to commit what amounts to genocide. Then you're confused.

You are deceived.

Whatever you think slavery is, would it be right if it were commanded by God? That is the question you're supposed to answer. Answer that first then we can get to your other questions or you can open another thread for them to be addressed but first, answer my question.
What you're trying to do above is an example of a red herring. You're trying to use these questions to avoid answering my question on the moral status of slavery based on what your God recommends.

Ingersoll thinks ignorance is the ONLY form of slavery, what do you think? You have told us here that Ingersoll's writings are good and sensible and you seem to rate them higher than the Scriptures. So, it is only okay to go straight to the point and ask your perspective. To be fair again to you, i have asked you to define slavery but you skipped it. i will ask again, What is slavery? It is important to know that so that i can know the question and context/perspective i am answering. i will answer your question, i am not you that keeps sidestepping and throwing red herrings and diversions.

Don't take it by my word, read your Bible. Pay attention to the depraved acts he demands of people and come to your conclusion.

SHould i use the same standard of reading the Bible to declare that you are immoral? What is clear is this; if we use the STANDARD of reading the Bible, you are immoral and God is moral.
1Sa 2:2 There is none holy as the LORD: for there is none beside thee: neither is there any rock like our God.
Exo 15:11 Who is like unto thee, O LORD, among the gods? who is like thee, glorious in holiness, fearful in praises, doing wonders?

So, permit me to ask again, should we take it BY YOUR WORD that God is immoral but you are moral? For all i know, You are a sinning sinner headed for hell fire. Repent and be born again before your sins find you out. Most of your good neighbours, co-workers, family members, relatives, probably parents are professing christians. Go and ask them how good they would be if they did not obeying God. Watch your tenses BTW.

thehomer:
The facts have been considered and I've come to the conclusion that other people use words.

And two people can have a discussion.

On the basis that the purpose of a test is to reveal to the tester something that they don't know. If your God actually knew everything, then he won't need to test people because testing people means that you don't know something about them.

i have consistently re-iterated BTW that man was the one being tested and not God. When you test oil or water, it is that oil, water, gold that is being tested and refined, not the refiner/examiner. When are you going to process that? Tests are like refining processes. e.g
Zec 13:9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God.

I never said I was forced. You're not forced to quote your Bible. Given your belief in life and death, would you kill your child if God told you to do so? That is the question you've still not answered. It is not righteous to be ready to kill your son because some God told you to do so. Or do you think that is a righteous act?

You implied being forced when you said "if we're going to be quoting writings". WE don't have to, i choose to quote the Bible especially as it appears to be 'on trial'. Did anybody ever kill his/her child because god told him/her to do so? Or what is your basis for ridiculous questions? You have no idea what righteousness is BTW.
Again, the men i mentioned; Abraham, Paul, Job, Daniel, Peter were all able to live righteous lives despite being born with a sin nature. Your sin nature is not an excuse for you, this is the point you should stress yourself focusing on. Remember all the good people around you including your family and relatives who have made the Word of God their moral guide.

Once again, you're saying rubbish. You've said that everyone deserves to be punished because of what Adam did. My question is why should everyone deserve to be punished for that reason? Why didn't your God allow everyone one else to start off with a clean slate? That is what I was referring to. Also, killing someone else for another person's wrong doing doesn't help anyone.

Its not rubbish for people to pay for their crimes. You asked why people should pay for their crimes instead of simply being forgiven as a sign of love. Do you advocate that we should simply forgive all sinners and defaulters? You skipped that. i do not recall saying that "everyone deserves to be punished because of what Adam did". i have repeatedly reiterated that your sin nature(which is from Adam) is not an excuse for you. i mentioned examples of men like you and me who escaped punishment and pleased God despite Adam. Every man would be rewarded and punished ACCORDING TO HIS WORKS. On why we don't start off on a clean slate, because we are born of Adam. You are connected to your father, you don't throw away relationships. There is a working connection to tribe, country, state of origin, blood, geneology/ancestry etc.

And I'm telling you that your God has commanded the killing of babies. He commanded Abraham to kill his child. Stop being obtuse and face what is right before you. Doing what God wants leads to doing evil like killing babies as he commanded the Israelites to do in the Bible. Read the passages I'm referring to and give me three reasons why you would want to obey him.

You miss your tenses lessons again, have you forgotten so soon? God has not commanded the killing of babies, you are not and i am not commanded to kill any baby.Here are some of His commandments for YOU.
1Pe 3:8 Finally, be ye all of one mind, having compassion one of another, love as brethren, be pitiful, be courteous:
1Pe 3:9 Not rendering evil for evil, or railing for railing: but contrariwise blessing; knowing that ye are thereunto called, that ye should inherit a blessing.
1Pe 3:10 For he that will love life, and see good days, let him refrain his tongue from evil, and his lips that they speak no guile:
1Pe 3:11 Let him eschew evil, and do good; let him seek peace, and ensue it.

This is what is RIGHT BEFORE YOU, you are actually the one being obtuse by facing what does not apply to YOU. When you truly do what God wants, it ensues peace, prosperity, progress and power, both for you and for your fellow man and the society at large. And it gives you the benefit of an enjoyable afterlife as well. Read again the passage i quoted and tell me any three reasons why you would want to disobey them. i asked you first but you ducked as is customary. i will oblige you; like i have said you are free to your reasons for obeying God. i obey God because of His wisdom, His omniscience and His love for me. Those are three reasons, now answer mine.

Well then you're clearly confused because if genocide is a crime, and God commanded genocide, then God has commanded people to perform a crime. This is simple logic.

God cannot commit a crime, therefore God did not command genocide. This is straight, simple and obvious logic.

And I'm telling you that if you think the theory of evolution is silly, then for you to be consistent, you have to think that the theory of gravitation and the theory of relativity are silly. You're merely saying that you're inconsistent.

Talk is cheap, You can demonstrate relativity and gravity and see it in real and everyday scenarios. It is unlike saying that man evolved from apes as how man came to be. That is silly, empty and baseless.

Was it not the same God that gave the command in Numbers? How is it misleading to point out that an evil person has commanded evil acts in the past? The fact that you think they're doing good things now doesen't excuse the evil. Until you address the evil that your God commanded, you won't have a leg to stand on.

Still throwing in the red-herring? God fits the context of your definition of love very well, face that fact. i was demonstrating God's love to you from Matthew 5 and Romans 5. You repeatedly avoided and evaded that and the text but bring up something about Numbers. You change the context and sidestep the issue repeatedly and deliberately by ignoring the two texts i presented. God has done no evil, ADDRESSED. Now face the texts from Romans and Matthew.

What does a still have to do with anything? If Job were a real person, he would have repented of his foolishness if he had encountered Ingersoll. No that is not a fact, it is a mere assertion from someone afraid of "the lake of fire".

Stop using marijuana STILL. Job's friends apparently had more philosophy and brain power than Ingersoll could ever muster in two lifetimes, Job still outsmarted them and was justified in the end. It is a smart thing to trust in the Lord. It is a fact that Ingersoll was used of the devil and is currently in torments waiting to be cast into the lake of fire. You don't know it, so you are free to think it an assertion.

I have a few. You can take a look at these references.
Exodus 32:19 to 32:28.
Numbers 16:1 to 16:32
You need to get to know your Bible.
See the references above.

Oh, so idolatry and disobedience equals to thinking, interesting. you said that God made it a crime to think. So, you imply that disobedience to constituted authority is thinking? Is that the way you do it where you live? Treason and sedition is your right to think? This is what we are saying, you are only harmless and insignificant because you are not in position. you have the same godless mind and ideology of your ilk Pol Pot, Stalin and Mao Zedong.

That's what you would think.

Yes, because you are too lazy and have no backbone to take responsibility.
Gen 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
Gen 1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
This is the default state, and if Adam had passed the test like Jesus did, we would have being in that image. you want God to take full responsibilities for your sins and your sinful state. For your lying, your debauchery, your ungodly stance on abortion, all of it. But you do not want Him to be responsible for your academic achievement or whatever other achievement you may have. that is irresponsibility, just like Adam your father.

Now you're backtracking? Well you're free to do that. In what sense is your God like rock and water?

Backtracking? No, you are the one actually lying and attempting to twist meanings.
1Sa 2:2 There is none holy as the LORD: for there is none beside thee: neither is there any rock like our God.
2Sa 22:32 For who is God, save the LORD? and who is a rock, save our God?
A Rock is symbolic of a defence or refuge, that is the sense in which believers see God like a Rock. he is Our defence and refuge.

Psa 42:1 To the chief Musician, Maschil, for the sons of Korah. As the hart panteth after the water brooks, so panteth my soul after thee, O God.
Psa 63:1 A Psalm of David, when he was in the wilderness of Judah. O God, thou art my God; early will I seek thee: my soul thirsteth for thee, my flesh longeth for thee in a dry and thirsty land, where no water is;
Isa 41:17 When the poor and needy seek water, and there is none, and their tongue faileth for thirst, I the LORD will hear them, I the God of Israel will not forsake them.
Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

God is like water in the sense that people thirst for Him and would continue to despite the attempts to dissuade. Billions of people are looking for God in one form or the other, and only the true God can truly satisfy that thirst and search.

And with your God's commands in Numbers, we know that your God is even worse than Stalin and Pol Pot combined.

You have lost all objectivity, how many millions did Pol Pot and Stalin kill compared to Numbers, not to even try mentioning Mao? Mao alone makes all the so called christian crusades of the dark ages combined look like a birthday party. Not to even add the fact that those crusades were anti-god.

Why do you support the genocide commanded by God in Numbers?
Are you asking the question on genocide based on your ignorance of it being evil or are you trying to be disruptive?

God never commanded genocide in Numbers. It appears you forget that genocide is a crime, that alone is enough disqualification. But i will generously add the fact that genocide always has the characteristics of DEHUMANIZATION, POLARIZATION, HATE, EXTERMINATION and DENIAL. you make the vain attempt to be disruptive when you twist God's judgement as a crime.

So you've not read the passages in the Bible where your God commanded people to be killed? Even small children? This has to be the worst expression of dishonesty I've seen in a while.

God created man, created the earth, divided the red sea, used His prophets to raise the dead and perform many miracles. Do you also see this things before your very eyes? Are you afraid to consider all that God did in the Old Testament? God commanded killings in judgement, because He is the Giver of life and Creator of all. Also, they were not random and thoughtless but due to the persistent evil of the said people. Face the facts, little children suffer from the consequences of their parents actions. If a parent is lazy, or careless, or criminal, their actions can land them in trouble like debt, poverty, prison, death, disease, hereditary problems etc. Their families(small or big) suffer from this due to the relationship. If you refuse to face this realities of life, too bad for you. Yours is a common case of millions of lives that the devil deceives every time and at his will.
Isa 14:17 That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?
2Ti 2:26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

Jesus Christ came to set you free.

For some reason, you keep calling on Stalin and Pol Pot when your God is worse than both of them combined. If you think what Stalin and Pol Pot did was evil, then why are you afraid of calling the killing commanded by God in Numbers evil?

God owns human life, your brothers do not.

Then you're more foolish than I thought. I'm asking what you would do if you were in their shoes and you're moaning that it is an impossible situation. Yet according to your Bible, your God placed some people in that impossible situation. I sense your panic and will continue to press your foolish self on it.

i cannot be in their shoes, don't you get it? i am in New Testament shoes and will remain there till Jesus comes, start reading your Bible. It is an IMPOSSIBILITY for the covenant to be changed to the Old. Jesus already DIED, the blood of the New Testament has already been shed. There is no amount of money or known technology presently that can take me or anyone into the Old Testament era/age. Your question remains foolish.

Well by my parameters, your God is inferior. Good to see you accept the inferiority of your God.

What are your parameters?

I did that several times already. Read what your God did in Numbers 31. Denying evil doesn't make it good.

When you do that several times already, it is called doubling or multiplying folly, which doesn't make it any wiser. Make your case in one quote in a post.

What your God did meets the definition of genocide so misusing language is just another foolish method. You call killing babies adequate punishment, I call it genocide as defined.

As long as the definition of genocide involves it being a criminal act, and an act carried out by humans to humans, then God can never do it. God is not a man, neither can He commit a crime. Very simple. Vengeance belongs to God. i have explained it to you already as justice. Fellow humans cannot carry out justice for a crime on each other at will. Their are procedures and protocols. Even school children get this, it is a shame the devil keeps you from getting it. If somebody assaults you or beats yours up, you go to report to the authorities or teacher or principal. It is the authorities that then take up the necessary actions or punishments. You taking the law into your hands is the crime. If two students do that, it is called fighting and they will both be expelled or punished. But when the teacher does it, that is punishment. i don't know how else i can explain this simple things more clearly to you.

Weren't the Israelites your God commanded in Numbers 31 believers? What was the content of God's command in that passage? Who did God ask them to kill in that passage? What were the ages of people he asked them to kill in that passage?

The Isrealites were believers. The command was not genocide as that is a crime, the command was judgement. In Numbers 31, the Midianites were to be killed. All the midianites were to be killed.
Num 31:3 And Moses spoke unto the people, saying, Arm some of yourselves unto the war, and let them go against the Midianites, and avenge the LORD of Midian.

Again, i have explained to you the point you are blindly driving at. If the referee gives a penalty kick for a foul against soccer player Messi, it is okay and legal. If a fellow player gives a penalty kick for a foul against soccer player Messi, it is chaos and illegal. Get an authentic perspective.

Whether or not I support them is meaningless because your God supports them even more than any human ever could. By your own words, you've convicted your God of being evil.

Whether or not you support and practice abortion, fornication, unforgiveness, indecency, hate etc is meaningless? Are you for real? You see why i am right to compare you to Mao Zedong and your other brothers? Life is meaningless to you all, it is only a matter of what you think logical ATM. You have no moral base, it is all boiling down to your thinking ability and your figuring things out in your little context. For the records, contrary to what you said, God does not support abortion, or fornication, or unforgiveness, or indecency, or hate.
i would ask again, Can you die for me? Can you heal me? Can you give me air to breathe in and out for free? Can you take me to heaven? Can you answer my prayers? Can you write a book? These were the questions i asked, you took to your heels yet again, reminiscent of satan the devil. Answer the questions and tell us clearly that you do not support and practice abortion, fornication, unforgiveness, indecency, hate.

foxxynik:
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Is he?
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Is he walking freely?
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You seems nt to have AN idea on political issues!

So, how did you get to the conclusion that Buhari is head of boko haram? Is buhari walking freely or in prison?

mikeansy:
[size=18pt]Visiting bomb victims or victims of terrorism is not exclusive to the President. The opposition candidate can visit victims too! When is Buhari going?[/size]

When are you going?

foxxynik:
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Hehehehehehe.....why won't boko haram cease when he's the masterminder of the group!
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Abeg.....

How did you come to this conclusion, and why is he walking freely and campaigning to be president?

frosbel:
It's one against 5 , appears you skimmed past these comments on the same page ;

Lol, definitely you have not 'met' Bruce Metzger.

frosbel:
I dont't take fundamentalists seriously !

What is a fundamentalist and what makes me one? Usually, i don't answer wishy-washy confused unbelievers but "unfortunately" for me, God loves you too. So, you have my attention.

rawpadgin:
i will stable oil price if i win. for more of this jokes text buhari to 666. text cost 3naira only

But this is a lie na, can you prove that Buhari said this?

frosbel:
^^^^

Shows you have not done your homework.

I only picked out the last paragraph in regard to textual variants. While it is mostly true that textual variants make minimal impact on the New Testament material, the small errors and fabrications that do exist have a major impact to the Beliefs and doctrines of christisnity.

For example, the contradictions in the resurrection accounts, the confusion surrounding the Virgin birth with outright fabrications to support this myth, the addition of 1 John 5:7 by a deceiving scribe to support the trinity, the bogus anecdote on the woman caught in adultery , the mishmash conglomeration of extra and intra biblical references to form the book of revelation, the fact that NONE of the apostles wrote Mark, Matthew , Luke and John, that the book of revelations was not written by apostle John, etc etc.

I suppose that to the fundamentalist dogmatic mindset which is set in its ways, all this evidence means nothing, the bible is still infallible, despite the fact that even God accuses some wicked scribes of writing lies ?.. Read Jeremiah 8:8

Stop deluding yourself !!!

You are what my neighbor would call an unserious element. Do the homework of patiently reading ALL my posts on this thread instead of skimming through the last paragraph. After that, i get back to you.

frosbel:
^^^

An example, the story of the woman caught in adultery was a forgery ;

Read evidence / http://www.religioustolerance.org/john_8.htm

Are you blind, your link says " Bruce Metzger, author of the "Textual Commentary on the Greek New Testament" writes that the passage is "obviously a piece of oral tradition" and that it "has all the earmarks of historical veracity."

PastorAIO:
Please I'm not interested in vacuities. I have raised some points and if you are incapable of addressing the points then just leave the matter there. I'll spell out the points again.

i see you have nothing to say than to resort to insult. Your posts on this thread have being vacuity personified and defined. You have consistently being unable to show us the importance of your agitations. You have shamefully turned a blind eye, a deaf ear and paralysed hands to posts that address your heartaches and question your fears. i will still wait for your visible and logical attempts on this, and this one, and that, and that one, and this too. Like i guess, you cannot cope to reason things for yourself and attempt a logical discussion except copy and paste from links and videos. In the end, it is we christians that get the stick for not thinking for ourselves. You came into this harping on scholarship, show us some of it from your very self.

- The thread is about who wrote the new testament. First you said God and then you backtracked and said human beings. Which is it?

i have consistently stated that the Bible(both Old and New Testament) is the Word of God. Of course it was penned down by men. It is daily printed by men. If you cannot reconcile or process that, you can ask God in prayer to help you. He is a present help in time of need.

- There are factual contradictions in the bible about the time of Jesus' death. This makes the bible an unreliable historical document. History is about facts, dates and times.

i have never denied that there are seeming contradictions in the Bible. i have said that those ' contradictions' either take a little common sense to figure out or at most have no significance whatsoever in the scheme of things and in the divine perspective. There remains nothing unreliable about the Bible's account of Christ's death. We can reliably say that Jesus Christ died on the cross of calvary for our sins, and rose again for our justification. This is the greatest truth in the universe. It matters not whether He died 12:10pm or 3:58pm or from the foundation of the world. The Bible is not a coroner's report or a statistics textbook or a chronology guide. History can do well without pesky and petty details that suit the gainsayer's fancy.

- inerrant means 100 per cent no error. 99 percent (or sorry did you change that to 99.9 percent - you can't make up your mind) is not inerrant.

Yes, and context is of the essence. Again, you shamefully lie and attempt to twist the records when you claim that i changed numbers. Can you please show us where i said 99.9% and quit being dishonest? This is the same rubbish and vanity you employ towards Bible study and manuscript evaluation. Any reader can grab that i have consistently maintained on this thread that scholar Bruce Metzger said that the Bible is more than 99% reliable. If you cannot pick up that straight point, too bad for you. The meaning of the more than 99% is that all the so called over 400,000 errors alleged are an insignificant less than 1%. The figures simply show and emphasize the insignificance of your arguments. The context of inerrancy and infallibility is that the Bible is without error or fault in its teaching/doctrine. That definition does not deny textual variants and its similar rubbish, neither have i.

- Your hero Metzger said that the bible was doctored. You totally ducked that one. Answer him now? I'll re copy what he said for you in big print so you don't have to get your glasses.

Again you lie, Metzger did not say that the Bible was DOCTORED. i'm assuming that "doctored" means to change something in order to deceive: to change something in order to make it appear different from the facts or the truth. People tried to correct and change stuff in the Bible. The changes or correction are common sense that anyone can normally figure out. Like for instance, a passage says "He cometh to them", and the scribe or translator puts "Jesus cometh to them". Those are the kind of things you want me to respond to. To doctor is to make a radical change, like to change Jesus to Peter, or to intentionally twist a fact. i will answer you still as requested, i hope you can do same instead of abscond as is becoming your custom.

In the earlier manuscripts of Mark 1:2, the composite quotation from Malachi 3:1 and Isaiah 40:3 is introduced by the formula "As it is written in Isaiah the Prophet". Later scribes, sensing this involves a difficulty replaced "As it is written in Isaiah the Prophet" with the general statement "As it is written in the prophets". Since the quotation Matthew(27:9) attributes to the prophet Jeremiah actually comes from Zechariah(11:12f), it is not surprising that some scribes sought to mend the error either by substituting the correct name or by omitting the name altogether.

Mar 1:2 As it is written in the prophets, [color=#990000]Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.
Mar 1:3 The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.
Isaiah indeed says verse 3 while Malachi says verse 2. The earlier manuscript says written in Isaiah the prophet. It is glaring that verse 3 is written in Isaiah and verse 2 in Malachi. What is the big deal about that, it is all the Word of God. People do this every day. The secretary knowing her boss or his boss and what he meant to say, the church interpreter, not interpreting grammatical error literally. Video editors and programmers transcribing texts and audio. We are not talking of some kind of sabotage or sinister attempts to deceive. You've got to be kidding me, we are aware of such variants, human beings are not perfect in that context. They make mistakes, misspell words, skip lines, make pronunciation mistakes etc. Those human limitations are insignificant in the divine scheme. God is not particular about that. When He puts 10 mango trees in a street, they don't have the same height or length, or fruitage, but they have the same life and are all mango trees. It is man that makes sure that all 10 buildings in the street look exactly alike and have the same color, that is man's definition of excellence and beauty, not God's. We are talking about God's Word, duh.

A few scribes attempted to harmonize the Johannine account of the chronology of the Passion with that in Mark by changing ’sixth hour’ of John 19:14 to ‘third hour’ (which appears in Mark 15:25).

i did not deny this or duck this, i have already answered on this. So stop lying and making hasty generalisations.

At John 1:28, Origen altered Bethany to Bethabara in order to remove what he regarded as a geographical difficulty, and this reading is extant today in MSS. 33 69 and many others , including those behind the King James version.

Joh 1:28 These things were done in Bethabara beyond Jordan, where John was baptizing.
It is a geographical difficulty. The place is described clearly as being 'beyond Jordan'. That means across Jordan or close to jordan. Meanwhile Bethany is close to Jerusalem, just 15 furlongs away.
Joh 11:18 Now Bethany was nigh unto Jerusalem, about fifteen furlongs off:
Common sense will tell us that it is either John1's Bethany is a different Bethany with the same name, because Bethany is just about 3km away from Jerusalem while the River jordan is about 30km away. Meanwhile Bethabara is quite close to Jordan as described and it has almost the same greek spelling as Bethany. A preacher can say John 3v6 and quote the popular "God so loved the world that He gave". Everyone knows and figures that he meant to say John 3v16. The technical crew putting up the texts would usually put up the right text meant. that is similar to what happened here. There is no effort to twist or deceive or cajole or politicise in favour of a particular doctrine. That is your aim and attempt in all this. Evidently, that is not what happened. What happened is very common sense for any serious person to take in.

The statement in Mark 8:31, that ‘the Son of man must suffer many things…and be killed and after three days rise again’, seems to involve a chronological difficulty, and some copyists changed the phrase to the more familiar expression, ‘on the third day’.

There is no chronological difficulty in this. It is simply an understanding of the prevalent language. It happens in some prevalent languages in Nigeria too, especially market day calculations or child dedications are common instances. Or in yoruba when you say 'day before yesterday', it would wrongly but literally be three days ago when translated to the english language.

The author of the Epistle to the Hebrews places the golden altar of incense in the Holy of Holies (Heb. 9:4), which is contrary to the Old Testament description of the Tabernacle (Exod. 30:1-6). The scribe of Codex Vaticanus and the translator of the Ethiopic version correct the account by transferring the words to 9:2, where the furniture of the Holy Place is itemized.

The golden censer can be in any of the two places, the author of Hebrews is not making a mistake.
Heb 9:3 And after the second veil, the tabernacle which is called the holiest of all;
Heb 9:4 Which had the golden censer, and the ark of the covenant overlaid round about with gold, wherein was the golden pot that had manna, and Aaron's rod that budded, and the tables of the covenant;

There is an altar of incense in the Holy place. The priest takes of that incense and brings it into the Holy of Holies using the golden censer.
Lev 16:12 And he shall take a censer full of burning coals of fire from off the altar before the LORD, and his hands full of sweet incense beaten small, and bring it within the veil:
Rev 8:3 And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.

So the censer can indeed be found in either of the two places, both in Heaven and in the Old Testament. However, the location does not detract or remove from the point and thrust of the writer which is about Christ, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing: Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience.

- The matter of textual variants affecting christian doctrines doesn't come into play. Why? Because these doctrines owe more to your imagination than what is actually in the text. If it was just a matter of the text then how come there so many denominations of christianity each with conflicting doctrines and all reading from the same 'inerrant' book.

Interesting and funny, again you tell like i have said several times that textual variants are irrelevant, immaterial and insignificant. They do not affect any core christian doctrine or come into any form of play. Christian doctrine do not owe to the imagination, they are in the Word of God. God is the creator of heaven and earth and of life. God is coming to judge the world. Jesus Christ came to earth as the Son of man, born of a virgin birth. He lived on earth and overcame. he is the Lamb of God for the salvation of mankind. He died for our sins and was resurrected for our justification. he offers abundant life. His offer is received on faith, grace, repentance and trust in His Word. That is the core of christian doctrine at a glance and just at the fingertips.

unclejb2:
Obasanjo proposed a 22 year jail term for people convicted of financial crimes and your corrupt governors and legislators killed it. I wonder how Buhari will single handedly fight corruption when the society is corrupt. We need strong anti-corruption policies and institutions not dictators who pose as incorruptible and wining and dinning with world renowned criminals. Vote GEJ

Who are the world renowned criminals. Is GEJ wining and dining with angels? Has he not told us that his government and generation has failed? Has he not told us himself that boko haram is in his government? Do we not know that the subsidy thieves and other thieves are his best friends? Is IBB not his father?

Normality:
Sharrap Nigerians have not gotten poorer, it is only people like you waiting for handouts aka almajiri type of welfare that are getting poorer.

When the govt introduced EED and Small scale business studies in tertiary institutions irrespective of the course and active vocational and skill acquiring programs all over the nation, they want you to help yourself a bit. Make use of Sure-P programme, check out You-Win, be creative and seek their help you will get it.
Learn something, however small and start somewhere.

When the economy was rebased, the wise ones are taking the opportunity, while the rest of u are here crying poverty

Shame

Government is for the people, not for the wise ones. The wise ones are surviving, securing their lives, lighting their homes and feeding all by themselves. The government should protect and provide for bpoth the wise and the unwise. Nigeria is more than 10,000 so called people or whatever ridiculuous number that unsure-p is affecting.

thehomer:
That fact doesn't mean that other people don't use words. We're not the only people who exist you know.

Don't start off with this pettiness, get your acts right and consider the facts.

Are you drunk or high? I told you that a God doesn't need a test. Or do you think God doesn't know some things and for that reason, needs a test? Does the fact that man needs tests mean that God needs tests? In that case, since man needs to be tested, then God too needs to be tested.

On what basis or standard do you conclude or think that God doesn't need a test. For the most part, you are a confused man, thinking God does not need a test and spending your life testing Him. Thank God for freedom to think. i have consistently re-iterated BTW that man was the one being tested and not God. When you test oil or water, it is that oil, water, gold that is being tested and refined, not the refiner/examiner.

I like quoting him because if we're going to be quoting writings, I might as well use good and sensible writings.
You seriously think that it is the right thing to kill your child if God told you to do so? This is why I say your God is depraved and someone who will follow such commands is depraved too.

You are not forced to quote writings. Emphasis on the word IF in bold in your quote. While to you, death is the end of life, in reality and in our viewpoint, it is just a phase. There is a better resurrection or an earthly resurrection which God the giver of life can make happen.
Heb 11:17 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,
Heb 11:19 Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.

Again, the men i mentioned; Abraham, Paul, Job, Daniel, Peter were all able to live righteous lives despite being born with a sin nature. Your sin nature is not an excuse for you, this is the point you should stress yourself focusing on. Remember all the good people around you including your family and relatives who have made the Word of God their moral guide.

No that doesn't meet it either. Killling people when you can simply forgive them isn't a sign of love. So, you now have two examples of your God not being loving.

You have got to be joking. There are punishments and penalties for criminals, offenders and sinners. You don't just SIMPLY forgive. Do you advocate that we should simply forgive all sinners and defaulters? Let us simply forgive all robbers, killers, thieves, liars, rapists, dictators, terrorists etc? Is that really what you are advocating? That the government and charities offer stuff to poor people free or subsidized doesn't mean it was obtained free. Other people, organisations and governments give generously and sacrificially in the background for these things to happen. All your free books, mosquito nets, malaria and other immunisations, some organisations sponsor these things with millions and billions of currency. The wages of sin is death, not simply forgiveness. Don't be deceived, God is not mocked, whatever a man sows is what he reaps. Jesus Christ was sent to help us pay up our debts and punishment, so that we do not have to pay for it again. It is not so that God will simply forgive everybody. You get that forgiveness if you accept and believe Jesus'payment on your behalf. That is the intense feeling of affection and care towards another person. Jesus came in while we were yet enemies and sinners, He died for us. He made the first step even though we were the ones that offended Him.

Have you forgotten that your God commanded the killing of babies? That he commanded Abraham to kill his child?
Are you saying that there are no actual reasons for me to do what your God wants? If you're not saying that, then please tell me the reasons why I should do what your God wants.

Again, God does not command you to kill anybody. Here are some of His commandments for YOU.
1Pe 3:8 Finally, be ye all of one mind, having compassion one of another, love as brethren, be pitiful, be courteous:
1Pe 3:9 Not rendering evil for evil, or railing for railing: but contrariwise blessing; knowing that ye are thereunto called, that ye should inherit a blessing.
1Pe 3:10 For he that will love life, and see good days, let him refrain his tongue from evil, and his lips that they speak no guile:
1Pe 3:11 Let him eschew evil, and do good; let him seek peace, and ensue it.

i am saying that your motivations for obeying God does not have to be fear or hell. The fear of hell does not have to be your incentive to do good, it is not mine BTW. When i cross the road carefully or work hard at what i do, it is not because of fear of retrenchment or fear of a trailer crushing me or fear of my boss. If those are your motivations, i have absolutely no qualms but those are not mine. The negatives are realities that can happen, i agree, but they are not what drive me to do whatever i do. When you truly do what God wants, it ensues peace, prosperity, progress and power, both for you and for your fellow man and the society at large. And it gives you the benefit of an enjoyable afterlife as well. Read again the passage i quoted and tell me any three reasons why you would want to disobey them.

Are you saying that sometimes, genocide is not a crime?

Not at all. In my quote, you can clearly read the second sentence as a literate. It says " Genocide is a CRIME."

That's not a demonstration of relativity, that is a popular article on the topic. I can get you popular topics on the theory of evolution too. The fact is that the theory of evolution is not a silly theory. It has been demonstrated. Merely whining and complaining about the theory is not an argument against it.

The point again is that gravity and relativity are not silly theories. You can also demonstrate them and see it in real and everyday scenarios. It is unlike saying that man evolved from apes as how man came to be. That is silly, empty and baseless. The article i referred you to show how relativity can be demonstrated like you requested AND LIKE I SAID in real and everyday scenarios..

So was your God making mistakes when he was in the Old Testament? I've not seen you demonstrate any red-herring or explain to me the relevance of saying that some scientists made mistakes when they were young unless you think that it somehow means that God should be pardoned because he was young when he "inspired" the Old Testament. My obsession with 6 month old babies is just to show you how depraved your God is.

No, God made no mistake. i simply showed you something you can relate with so that you can relatively and objectively use it in your judgements. God fits the context of your definition of love very well, face that fact. Instead you are busy side-stepping that point and throwing in red-herrings. i was demonstrating God's love to you from Matthew 5 and Romans 5. You repeatedly avoided and evaded that and the text but bring up something about Numbers or so. That is called a red-herring or deviation. A red-herring is a misleading clue: something introduced, e.g. into a crime or mystery story, in order to divert attention or mislead. You sound depraved BTW, reduce your fixation on six month old babies and your distaste and dismissal for millions of babies in the womb that are aborted annually.

Marijuana is only banned in some places. Job was a fool who God toyed with. So would you be happy if God killed your first three children only to give you another set of three children? This is why I say some of you Christians either haven't properly thought of your religion or are just so depraved that you uphold atrocities as being good.

Stop using still. Job was the greatest of all the men of the east. Ingersoll would die instantly of inferiority complex just standing next to him. You do know that it is a fact that Ingersoll was used of the devil and is currently in torments waiting to be cast into the lake of fire.

As I said, I'm willing to go into this if you can simply state that you're willing to change your mind based on information.

Of course, why not? First things first.
-Who are the people that God once ordered to be killed for having different ideas, i'd like to discuss the context.
-Does God order that people be killed for having different ideas? You sidestepped the question again again again.

The default state is the one that God brought about. Stop blaming Adam for what God caused. The more I look at some of what God did, one can reasonably say that maybe the Bible was written by a being so depraved that he wanted to see what he could get people to believe.

Yeah yeah, and God is the cause of your academic achievements, right?

Apparently you didn't learn it well because you keep misusing it and the concepts it represents. If something is like something, it is like that thing otherwise you're just talking gibberish. If I say human hair is like rope, then human hair is like rope. Your educational background has always been in question.

How is it misused. i would have being surprised at your dishonesty if i didn't know your sinful nature from the Bible. You cannot help it, only Jesus can save you from the pit of lies you are enmeshed in. i said God is LIKE Rock, Water etc but He is not Rock, Water, Sun etc. You are helplessly(like one possessed) forcing an interpretation that God is inanimate.

No. If you knew how to read and knew anything about morality, you'll quickly realize that your God is not moral and that your God is not needed for morality. In fact, you'll quickly realize that with your God, you cannot be moral.

With these i can be moral.
1Pe 3:8 Finally, be ye all of one mind, having compassion one of another, love as brethren, be pitiful, be courteous:
1Pe 3:9 Not rendering evil for evil, or railing for railing: but contrariwise blessing; knowing that ye are thereunto called, that ye should inherit a blessing.
1Pe 3:10 For he that will love life, and see good days, let him refrain his tongue from evil, and his lips that they speak no guile:
1Pe 3:11 Let him eschew evil, and do good; let him seek peace, and ensue it.

Without the above, we both know what the likes of your brothers Stalin and Pol Pot did with their godless views of morality.

Since you believe that there are some good reasons for genocide, then according to you, genocide is sometimes fine.

Why do you think genocide is not fine, i think i've seen you defending the killing of babies in the womb? For me, genocide is never fine.

That still doesn't mean it is okay for him to command genocide. You say that someone who has commanded an evil act is incapable of evil? That is just denying what is just before your very eyes.

What is just before my very eyes again? i do not see any genocide before my very eyes. i see God created man, created the earth, divided the red sea, used His prophets to raise the dead and perform many miracles. Do you also see this things before your very eyes? Are you afraid to consider all that God did in the Old Testament?

I don't know about you but I'm yet to kill people like Staling and others did. I don't see how following your God would have made things better since your God has been known to command genocide.

Of course, it is because you lack the opportunity. We have already seen your views about millions of babies that die every year due to abortion. We know how you value human life, it is all a matter of what is logical/rational to you at the moment. Go and do the maths and ratio of deaths and evils by so called godly/bible following people compared to godless ones.
Again, "i refuse to follow a godless ideology like yours and your brothers- Stalin, Pol Pot and Mao Zedong. Their deeds due to inability to follow God and His ideology and morality not only shocked hyena hearts but killed hyenas at once. They made the poison of the cobra taste like milk, and made the dastardly acts of the religious crusades seem like a massage."

Your answser is foolish. If you know what you would do, then say what you would do. If you don't know what you would do, then say you don't know what you would do. It really sucks to be so childish and ignorant.

What i would do in an impossible situation? There is no amount of money or known technology presently that can take me or anyone into the Old Testament era/age. Your question remains foolish.

How exactly are you trying to demonstrate your God's superiority?

Any parameter you give. Good to see you realise the point and context at last.

And again, he runs from revealing the depravity he shares with his God.

Doubling or multiplying folly doesn't make it any wiser. Make your case in one quote in a post.

The fact that you're not ashamed of a genocidal maniac is not a good thing. Unless you don't know the meaning of the word, then you have no defense.

God did not command or commit genocide. You may need to write that down repeatedly on foolscap papers until you get it.
The media reports to us that boko haram has killed about 14,000 people over the yearS as nauseating as they are. The people you are attempting to defend caused the death of 24,000 Israelites. God is the Judge of the earth, He rightly punished them.
Rom 12:19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.
Heb 10:30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.

Then either you've not read your Bible, or you don't know what the word means.

You that have read the Bible and knows the meaning of the word. How come you have failed to prove your point? Hear this again, GOD DID NOT COMMAND BELIEVERS TO COMMIT GENOCIDE.

Hey I'm not the one championing genocide here. I didn't say I support what you've written either. In fact, your God supports those things and has done some of them himself and worse. What is the point of those questions? The fact that I'm morally better than your God to me is the most important point here.

You that supports and practices abortion, fornication, unforgiveness, indecency, hate etc.
Can you die for me? Can you heal me? Can you give me air to breathe in and out for free? Can you take me to heaven? Can you answer my prayers? Can you write a book? These were the questions i asked, you took to your heels yet again, reminiscent of satan the devil. Answer the questions and tell us clearly that you do not support and practice abortion, fornication, unforgiveness, indecency, hate

Again you do the most ridiculous thing. I answered your question but you're unable to answer the same question in your own words? I've told you that those passages command murder and genocide but in your confusion and fear of your God being exposed, you try to decieve yourself. You've just quoted your God commanding all boys to be killed and girls to be kept alive for themselves. Yet you wonder why I say your God is depraved?

Oh, its my own words you want, not really the answer. The Israelites were askED to kill every male and the women, except the little females to avenge the death of thousands of Israelites.
Pro 28:5 Evil men understand not judgment: but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

Read my posts.

Already did, maybe you could be more specific?

Genocide is genocide and isn't good.

That statement is correct, you must have read me say same a couple of times.

I thought you knew your Bible. Would slavery be right if it were commanded by God?

Is ignorance the only slavery? Ingersoll thinks it is, what do you think? What is slavery?

You declare I'm immoral, I'm telling you I'm not. I'm saying your God is immoral and if you fully obey him, you'll be immoral too.

So, we should take it BY YOUR WORD that God is immoral but you are moral? You are a sinning sinner headed for hell fire. Repent and be born again before your sins find you out. Most of your good neighbours, co-workers, family members, relatives, probably parents are professing christians. Go and ask them how good they would be if they did not obeying God.

kingogundana:
Could APC be the Nigerian version of the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood Party? Check out this: 1. Party Leader - North: Gen Muhammadu Buhari (Muslim). 2. Party Leader - South: Bola Ahmed Tinubu (Muslim). 3. National Chairman: Abdulkareem Bisi Akande (Muslim). 4. Deputy National Chairman: Aminu Bello Masari (Muslim). 5. National Secretary: Tijjani Musa Tumsah (Muslim). 6. Deputy National Secretary: Nasir El-Rufai (Muslim). 7. National Publicity Secretary: Lai Muhammad (Muslim). 8. National Treasurer: Sadiya Umar Faruq (Muslim) 9. National Financial Secretary: Alhaji Shaibu Musa (Muslim). 10. National Youth Leader: Abubakar Lado (Muslim). 11. National Legal Adviser: Muiz Banie (Muslim). 12. National Deputy Auditor: Bala Jibrin (Muslim). 13. National Women Leader: Sharia Ikeazor (Muslim convert). 14. EX-Officio Member: Muniru Muse (Muslim). 15. EX-Officio Member: Alhaji Yemi Sanusi (Muslim). Yet, these people want us to believe they are PROGRESSIVES and that APC is a national party. I think APC has a hidden religious agenda..Be guided people!

Share to all Christian you know to vote wisely.

This is intellectual laziness, politics is not religion. Ex officio ko, lubbish.

vooks:
Sycophancy is now a spiritual gift at Deeper Life?

Lol, deeper life members are my worst fear(if there's any) for pastor Kumuyi. It's like christians that try to lie and exaggerate for Jesus, or getting violent for God.

How can he stop what he does not know or understand?
cor·rup·tion\kə-ˈrəp-shən\
noun
: dishonest or illegal behavior especially by powerful people (such as government officials or police officers)
: the act of corrupting someone or something
: something that has been changed from its original form
Full Definition
1 a : impairment of integrity, virtue, or moral principle : depravity
b : decay, decomposition
c : inducement to wrong by improper or unlawful means (as bribery)
d : a departure from the original or from what is pure or correct
2 archaic : an agency or influence that corrupts


Where are the monies saved and regained? We are unfortunately entrenched deeper in more untraceable thefts and dishonesty. Dishonesty and illegal behavior still thrives in all government sectors. Bribery still remains a norm. The customs, airports, wharf, road safety, driver's license, goods clearing, immigration, police, job application etc are all riddled with corruption. Where is the money collected from abacha and all the efcc monies? Why is substandard the normal thing in importation? These are general questions that affect the public, not paper.

I hope all of them will come for debate especially President Jonathan and Buhari. And i hope they are not trying to physically harm the other.

This is what we call shabby and scrappy response, did you lose your original manuscripts? Abeg answer my posts jare or at least confirm that you have learnt the lessons taught.

PastorAIO:
Who are 'we all' because last time I checked you were saying this:

Oh, but you just confessed that you knew that the matter of inerrancy is different from the matter of who wrote the Bible nah. The Bible is the Word of God, deal with that, its not my fault that it is. We all know that different men like Paul and Moses were used to pen it down. What Ehrman and his fellows like frosb are drumming up is that it is not even penned by these men but by scribes and printers like Oxford Press and Longman.

Nobody argued with you about the Bible being reliable as a source of christian doctrines. Whether the bible can be the source of a cogent coherent doctrine is a different matter, and the sheer existence of hundreds and thousands of various denominations with varying doctrines should tell anyone that Doctrine is as much a matter of the readers creativity as it is a product of a text.

Where we are arguing is that the bible is NOT reliable as a scientific document.

The bible is NOT reliable as an historical document.

The Bible is NOT reliable as a true representation of the original texts that left the hands of the writers.

The existence of discrepancies and variations are enough to show any intelligent soul that there has been some departure from the original text. What Ehrman keeps saying is that the discrepancies do not have any Theological significance. The significance is the fact that it is not the same text as was originally written. Whether the changes are theologically significant or not is a different matter.

Well, your arguments remain vain and only for the gullible and undiscerning. You and frosb and Ehrman are yet to show anyone these departures. Are they a figment of your wild imaginations?

In the context of teaching and doctrine the bible is as reliable as your creative imagination allows it to be.

In the context of historical accuracy the bible is NOT reliable. Historians are interested in FACTS. Statements of Facts include things like 'Jesus died at the 3rd hour'. Or 'Jesus died at the 6th hour'. 2 mutually exclusive events cannot both be facts so a document that contains 2 mutually exclusive events cannot be factual. Jesus could either die on the 3rd hour or on the 6th hour but he cannot die at both times. It's either one is true and the other is false or both are false. This is what we call Internal inconsistencies.
Whether it has doctrinal import is irrelevant to the matter of whether it is a fact or not. Perhaps one is a code/allegory for a deep christian doctrine, that's okay but it doesn't make it a fact. Jesus made plenty of use of allegory when he taught spiritual Truth but no one is insisting that The Good Samaritan actually existed and the events in the story actually happened historically.

The Bible is historically accurate and reliable. Only petty minds have migraines over whether Jesus dies at the third hour or at the sixth hour or from the foundation of the world. This is what we call Irrelevant, insignificant, worthless and immaterial inconsistencies. Great minds know that He indeed died and rose again as the Bible reliably tells.

Metzger, according to you, said the bible is 99% reliable, (but I see you've hidden the 99% now). 99% reliable is not inerrant. Plus you didn't tell us in what capacity he was calling the bible inerrant. He didn't mean in a historical capacity, and he didn't mean that it was a reliable copy of the original texts. I know that because he blatantly stated that the bible had been intentionally doctored.

It is not just according to me, it is what Metzger said, and he is Ehrman's oga and daddy, automatically you are in the subset. Any gold that is 99% gold is gold. Go and read, i cannot keep doing it for you, are you not a scholar wannabe? Abi you want youtube video for it instead fa?

You see, numbers are not irrelevant in history. In fact if there is anything that historians are pedantic over it is dates, times, sequences, and numbers. If the bible cannot tell us accurately what time Jesus died, at the 3rd hour or at the 6th hour, then the bible is not historically accurate. It contradicts itself.

If you read a text that says William the Conqueror conquered england in 1055ad, every historian will tell you that it is historically inaccurate. If you're dumb enough to say that it doesn't matter that all that matters is that William came to England and conquered it and ruled England and the date doesn't matter, you will fail even a primary school history exam. Or if you say Nigeria got independent on 1st sept, 1944, if you like argue that it is historical because Nigeria did get its independence.

Minute numbers are important in statistics and in maybe numerical analysis, not history. i don't care to know if Abacha died 12:44pm, i'm not his coroner. i doubt if his family members care about such detail. Again, numerics and statistics is not history, don't mix the facts. See your shameliness coming up with analogy of years of difference to compare to 3hours of difference. i have no time for such pettiness.

I'm glad that you have such a high respect for Metzger. Let's look at what Metzger the chief oga scholar has to say:

In the earlier manuscripts of Mark 1:2, the composite quotation from Malachi 3:1 and Isaiah 40:3 is introduced by the formula "As it is written in Isaiah the Prophet". Later scribes, sensing this involves a difficulty replaced "As it is written in Isaiah the Prophet" with the general statement "As it is written in the prophets". Since the quotation Matthew(27:9) attributes to the prophet Jeremiah actually comes from Zechariah(11:12f), it is not surprising that some scribes sought to mend the error either by substituting the correct name or by omitting the name altogether. A few scribes attempted to harmonize the Johannine account of the chronology of the Passion with that in Mark by changing ’sixth hour’ of John 19:14 to ‘third hour’ (which appears in Mark 15:25). At John 1:28, Origen altered Bethany to Bethabara in order to remove what he regarded as a geographical difficulty, and this reading is extant today in MSS. 33 69 and many others , including those behind the King James version. The statement in Mark 8:31, that ‘the Son of man must suffer many things…and be killed and after three days rise again’, seems to involve a chronological difficulty, and some copyists changed the phrase to the more familiar expression, ‘on the third day’. The author of the Epistle to the Hebrews places the golden altar of incense in the Holy of Holies (Heb. 9:4), which is contrary to the Old Testament description of the Tabernacle (Exod. 30:1-6). The scribe of Codex Vaticanus and the translator of the Ethiopic version correct the account by transferring the words to 9:2, where the furniture of the Holy Place is itemized.


He said that scribes constantly corrected errors that they found in the original documents. Your oga is basically saying that the writers of NT, for example the writer of Hebrews, didn't have his facts straight when he wrote that the altar of incense was in the Holy of Holies. It was later scribes that corrected this error.

Duh, you were the one who claimed that you would listen to a scholar instead of listening to people like me nah. So i gave you a scholar who is Ehrman's oga and master forever. i guess you have not read about him to doff your hat in eternal respect. He said that the Bible is 99% reliable. Go and read why or ask him why. i noticed earlier how you yourself are trying to form scholar on my post , by being overreactive about my 99% post. You no try, ask Bart to teach you better or better still, read through before posting.

The bible is reliable as a source of spiritual teachings but only when it is read with discerning.

Lol, no comments for now.

You're still coming with this one. Yes, it is argued all the time that the books of Homer, Scorates Plato Shakespeare etc etc etc are not theirs, not only because their are mistakes in copying but also because we know that their disciples and students added and subtracted from their works.
It is a common issue that since all we know about Socrates' teachings come from Plato, how do we know that Plato was not putting words in Socrates mouth. We don't. We cannot tell the different between Socrates' original teachings and Plato's own ideas. But nobody is crying about this.
The only reason you are crying about the same scholarly investigation being applied to the bible is because you have stupidly made the bible the foundation of your very sanity. If the bible is questionable your sense of sanity crumbles. You are lost.

Scholarly indeed, abi beer parlor gists. Again, the irony of it is that you say the errors are insignificant but yet think it should crumble the foundations of my faith. Which way? If its being questionable is insignificant and immaterial, how does it crumble anything at the same time?

The sheer fact that there are textual variations tells us that we've deviated from the original text, whether in a theologically significant way or not.
Metzger, your super lord oga daddy of all scholars also tells us explicitly that early christians amended the texts.
The text is internally inconsistent. What time did Jesus die? Or did he faint at the 3rd hour and then wake us again to properly die in the 6th hour? Even then at least one of the gospels is in error.

What are the salient points trembled at? Please state them, maybe i didn't know they were salient enough or i have already commented on them. Be specific as he was about 400,000 errors. Where are your devastating arguments already?
What sane person would go like "Oh my God, Jesus died 3pm and not 6pm, my faith is gone"?

O my God! All that just to arrive at this point. So there is no debate and you agree that we do not have the Original New Testament. So what are you making noise for?


Err... No! You're wrong, very wrong there. We know that the NT we have today has deviated from the original text because even the church fathers who copied the texts and handed them down to us, like Origen, admitted the texts had been doctored though he levels the accusation mainly against the marcionites. And remember that your very clever oga and master scholar himself has pointed this out to us. even showing us where Origen himself doctored texts.

Another foolish variant discovered i guess. A little common sense and further reading shows that i referred to the original manuscripts as the Original New testament. BTW, Scholar Metzger says that all of the New testament is easily recoverable and 99% accurate. You should read him.

T

You know that NT didn't exist when Jesus said that. He was talking about the Law.

Duh, the law, the Word of God, the Scripture, the Bible, the Book, the Sword of the Spirit are all synonyms for all the Word of God. Abi you do not know that Peter called Paul's epistles scripture?

Dude I'm a writer, and I know that I've gotten into big bust ups with Editors when a publication came out and it wasn't what I wrote that I saw in the magazine. It is more difficult when it involves people I know personally and they are shocked to read 'me' saying inaccurate things about them. It happens all the time and as vigilant as you try to be those editors can be very sneaky people. and that is when you're alive and able to do something about it. What if you were dead? That is how it will go down in posterity that you said something that you never said.

Exactly, Mr writer. This again is why we have nothing to worry about. God the Writer is not complaining or having nightmares. Instead, He continues to honour His Word as we quote them, act on them and believe in them.

well, your 'sarcasm' is Foolish. Italics don't save a dumbassed question from being dumbass. But since you now admit that it's only sarcasm then that means that you don't think 'it is a most insane thing' and you agree that it is 'critical thinking'.
As for the rest of what you are saying, your attempts at being logical are now starting to break down completely. lf I say that it's effect on your psychological well being and sanity are beginning to show you might answer that 'it's only superficial scratches'.

i already said "That is a most insane thing to embark on, that is not critical thinking". How many times do you read before you comprehend? Please work on this.
You, Ehrman and your ilk consistently forget to show how crucial this your argument is or how it affects psychological well being and sanity. Are you attempting to say this things by 'faith'?

If you want to speculate wildly, feel free but I'll stick to considering the facts as they turn up. If a new earlier document is found tomorrow then I'll take it into consideration and might even change my opinion if it convinces me but till then I'll stick with the evidence available.

Dead Sea scrolls still survived till today, what is the difference? Or was God protecting those texts more than he was protecting your bible?

It's not a wild speculation, it is a very interesting and near possibility. Consider the analogy again, If i copied the national anthem from my illiterate uncle's book 30years ago, and you copied the national anthem 2years ago from a more reliable source like say Wole Soyinka's writing. Would it be desperate for you to say that yours could be more reliable or authoritative than mine? Should we say mine is older and closer to the time the National Anthem was written(it can be any other document or writing, this is just analogy), therefore mine is more reliable? What is in the Dead Sea scrolls that you think is not in my Bible? i'm waiting for your answers to the other posts.

Sure-p jobs dem, may God remember this country.

JimiAgbaje2015:
Hello Aresa,
You could have passed your message without resorting to the use of abusive language. We are all frustrated by these attacks and no matter what political parties we subscribe to, we are first of all Nigerians and must unite to eliminate this scourge.

Like earlier mentioned, the Defence Spokesman has given updates on the situation in Baga. We remain certain that one day very soon, Insurgency will no longer exist in Nigeria.

God bless.

Oga, we are only frustrated because our leadership is. France is not frustrated in the sense that we are. We have spent too much not to see ANY tangible results.

hansad:
to those who falsely believe that Osibanjo shall succeed a president Buhari - you have no clue regarding how born to rule sees Nigeria as its estate.

even if Buhari serves for one term or less, born to rule must insist that its clan must complete eight years in office as president. and there is nothing the rest of Nigeria can do to stop it, more so, given the bad way some people must have treated Jonathan.

and by 2023, born to rule must have consolidated power, bought all oppositions to it retaining power, and thus winning the presidency in 2023 must have become a matter of the fittest. of course, born to rule must win in 2023 and must continue till who knows when. and born to rule must make Nigeria deteriorate - insecurity and worse economy - as usual.

God is the Owner of life. No one can by his power be alive till next month including Goodluck Jonathan. There are no assurances that you or me or GEJ will outlive Buhari except God permits. I'm okay if born to rule rules and there is security, sanity, power, vibrant economy for the common and average nigerian, education, labour laws working etc, than my brother and son and any unborn to rule rules and people are dying worse than chicken every week without solution.

Burger01:
Fela of blessed memory was a radical singer. This didn't go down well with not only Buhari but other government that may be. Clamping Fela in the cell was the only way they could shut him up. Still Fela never gave up. He always fought the government with his songs. Abami eda, my respect.

Ogbeni Seun, what has happened has happened. Life goes on.

FeBuhari 2015.

Actually, Fela wasn't jailed under Buhari's administration for political reasons or for being radical. He was jailed like any other nigerian in illegal possession of foreign currency. It was made illegal at the time for economic reasons and to smoke out the corrupt officials.

Trinity.
2+2=4
Two plus Two equals Four.
This is a great mystery.

Iamoilprince:
Dear Nairalanders,

I need your advise, my church is on 40 days fasting (6-6). we have done 10 so far, but just yesterday i checked my BP and discovered it is 165/96. I checked a week before we started the fasting and it was 120/80, but increased because of the fasting. I really want to do the fasting till the end (30 days more) because i respect every word and command that comes from my G.O (Daddy Adeboye). Please i need ur advise. Thanks

You can pray along with them, at least the goal is answer to prayer i guess? Pray along and abstain from food once in awhile when you can. Fasting is about the discipline, not just about abstaining from food. One can discipline the body in many other areas asides food.

Obiagelli:
buhari remembers that the Obi of Awka was
a former officer in the Nigerian Air Force.

Someone said something about phone number? #movingon



2. Prayer session

Note: Buhari remove cap during prayers, what will his critics use again?