₦airaland Forum

efficiencie:
Your humble opinion in comments 1 and 2 are contradictory. How come you heard TBJ only a few times and consider listening to him a waste of time but yet you know so much of his PRACTICES AND METHODS to have problems with them? ...just a humble question!

Thanks for your humble question, and Happy New Year. i did not claim to know SO MUCH of him or his. i said that "i have a big problem with many of his practices and methods as they are not scriptural or biblical." There is NOTHING contradictory in that. i can see you ONCE and have a big problem with you and what you do. i don't have to see you a million times to make an assessment. For instance, if i met a girl for the first time today, and she tried to seduce me into immorality, that's a big problem for me. She doesn't need to do that several times before it becomes a big problem with me.
Now, i said the 'few' times i have seen him, notice FEW in quote. Why, because few is relative. i've known about TBJ for a looooooong time, but i've never had to settle down to watch him or whatever he usually does on TV. i have many other things to do than to sit and watch TV, especially if it is something superficial(which is what 99% of SCOAN's episodes used to be). SCOAN would always show deliverance, deliverance, deliverance upon deliverance sessions, or some charity work. You hardly see the man preach, at least not until recently. Even the preaching, it's usually about some predictions. i'm talking about what they usually aired on the usual TV stations.

On the comment 3, is love about taking, taking and taking? That verse:

1Co 13:3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing

Meaning that giving for any reason other than love is profitless and how do you give in love? it's giving by grace and giving by grace is giving not as an earning but as a gift... TBJ gives to people who have little or no capacity to give back in return...orphans, widows, muslims (strangers), the disabled... if 95% of so called men of God give like this we would no longer need GOVERNMENTS!

No, love is not about taking, taking and taking. i never suggested that. i simply stated what a Bible passage said. And that is that one can give and yet lack love.
1Co 13:3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the POOR, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing

Clearly, one can give to the POOR and have not charity. i don't think it gets any clearer. If 95% of so called men of God give like this, and have not charity, it profiteth them nothing. It is useless and of no good.

calaway:
truthful Little kids are better than adults who tell blatant bold faced lies to sell bad and evil wares.

if you can tell the truth for once i will continue with you in discuss. please watch the video again and read also the translations incase u cannot understand hausa, and then tell me if buhari said "KILL THEM" to his audience.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePJSywwVWZM

i have being telling the truth while you have being busy playing games. You are proving to be a bigot and averse to common sense. i am not here to support Buhari, but you need to give us real proof of your assertions about him. Calumny and repetitive accusations do not equal to truth. If you like type Buhari is boko haram a million times, or post edited pictures of Buhari and Shekau, that does not equate to truth. That is simply needless propaganda and unnecessary heating up of the polity. Your picture that you posted here said that Buhari made "violent inciting statements AFTER the 2011 elections.". i asked you to provide proof of this, you have not. You have simply decided to 'give a dog a bad name and hang him'. Buhari made statements during campaign, and that was BEFORE elections, not after. In this, you have not told the truth. Now, what were his statements from the video you provided? He said "Firstly you must register, come out and vote. You should guard, protect, escort to the collation centre, and you wait till the result is counted. Anyone who stops you, kill them". This is the translation you gave and i have not at any point denied it. Now, we are dealing according to your translation ONLY. It is clear in this country that politicians and their supporters say things that i think they should not. It is not limited to a particular person or party. If you listen to Metuh, Okupe, Asari-Dokubo, Tinubu and co, you will here stuff that make the ear tingle. But we do not live based on that, do we? Some ACN/APC people promised hell on earth in the last Ekiti gubernatorial elections, what happened? NOTHING. Why? People don't usually respond or resort to violence based primarily on mere talk and campaign. People resort to election violence when they truly feel cheated. When they KNOW that cheating has taken place, broad daylight robbery has taken place. You don't need Buhari or Tinubu or Asari to say anything. The natural african trend is violence when the people feel that their mandate has being stolen. What did Abiola say for election violence to occur in 1993? How many kill thems did Awolowo say when Shagari was said to have won in places that he surely could not have? Was there no violence in the South West? Boko haram was before 2011, your picture lies by insinuating that Buhari made it take effect in a most violent form. No, the present government's callousness, lethargy and ineptitude made Boko Haram what it is today. They should have dealt with it while the fire was gathering, but they showed a lack of concern, and are not bothered because it is only [i]happening in the fringe[/i]s, according to the president. The current government have done nothing concrete about boko haram except for unfounded allegations. They have shown little or no care to the wanton loss of lives. I'm yet to see the president do more than the president of Sri Lanka concerning boko haram. Of course everybody condemns boko haram, please do more than condemn on Twitter through Abati. The current president lives largely in denial and considers boko haram actions as just excesses happening in the fringes. He's not just the president of Abuja or Bayelsa, he should do more and stop finger pointing and playing opposition party politics. Arrest Buhari already if he's the one responsible for boko haram. As far as i know, not one attack has been carried out in Otuoke or Bayelsa or involving the people in power. Instead, the current government has made a lot of money from this crisis. God will definitely judge, but it will be a shame if we do not use the talent, power and opportunities God has given us to better our country.

What is GEJ waiting for if he knows the proven sponsors of boko haram? What about Sherif Modu that was indicted? GEJ is president and commander in chief of Nigeria, paid heavily to be. He should do the needful if he knows the people shedding blood and causing mayhem. The current administration has not demonstrated control of larger Nigeria despite having so much money and aid, Nigerian army, police, Navy, airforce, sss, dss etc.
You lied here by claiming that Buhari request the audience to kill under any circumstance. Buhari did not request that people be killed UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE. Your exaggeration and sentiments are beclouding common sense opinion from you. You have also severally refused to answer simple straight forward questions because they expose your calumny and the ineptitude of the present administration. Again,
That speech was made before elections, yes or no? Why has the government not picked him up if he is responsible for the violence?

January 1 Psalm 144:14,15
SEND MORE LABOURERS.

Psa 144:14 That our oxen may be strong to labor; that there be no breaking in, nor going out ; that there be no complaining in our streets.
Psa 144:15 Happy is that people, that is in such a case: yea, happy is that people, whose God is the LORD.

That our oxen may be strong to labour. This is the plan and will of God for us His children. Our oxen depicts something we acquired to work for us. Our oxen symbolizes what we purchased, planned and got to produce for us. Our oxen ought to be strong to labour. If you got a phone, a car, a property to function and be productive for you, it ought to be strong to labour. It ought not to crash needlessly or develop unnecessary faults. It ought not to become a source of drain and pain, regret and wastage. That our oxen may be strong to labour; and that there be no breaking in, nor going out. This is your heritage, this is God's will and desire and focus. This is happiness, this is blessing. When the Bible says "Blessed", it refers to the same vein and state of being "Happy". Happy is that people, that is in such a case. Blessed is that people, that is in such a case. This is the case that God wants us to be in. So when we say "God bless you", it shouldn't be a vague saying or a vague expectation. When God blesses you, your oxen should be strong to labour. There should be NO COMPLAINING.
When we say Happy New Year 2015, we are actually saying "Blessed New Year 2015 to you." Happy, Blessed is that people, whose God is the LORD. The people that are blessed are in such a case. What case? A case and situation of no complaining. No breaking in, nor going out. We need those labourers Lord. This year must be sweet.

Psa 144:14 That our oxen may be strong to labor; that there be no breaking in, nor going out ; that there be no complaining in our streets.
Psa 144:15 Happy is that people, that is in such a case: yea, happy is that people, whose God is the LORD.

That our oxen may be strong to labour. This is the plan and will of God for us His children. Our oxen depicts something we acquired to work for us. Our oxen symbolizes what we purchased, planned and got to produce for us. Our oxen ought to be strong to labour. If you got a phone, a car, a property to function and be productive for you, it ought to be strong to labour. It ought not to crash needlessly or develop unnecessary faults. It ought not to become a source of drain and pain, regret and wastage. That our oxen may be strong to labour; and that there be no breaking in, nor going out. This is your heritage, this is God's will and desire and focus. This is happiness, this is blessing. When the Bible says "Blessed", it refers to the same vein and state of being "Happy". Happy is that people, that is in such a case. Blessed is that people, that is in such a case. This is the case that God wants us to be in. #the Good News.

lastmessenger:
No need because I know you too well. Nothing makes sense to you because it is not coming from ROR.

So you have added dodging to the artillery? Lie, imply', add to the Word, and dodge. What is ROR by the way? You have no idea.

calaway:
HE DID NOT SAY "KILL THEM" ? YOU ARE LIVING A PITIFUL LIFE OF DARKNESS AND LIES.

Buhari is president general of the fulani in west africa (miyatti Allah) BUHARI arms and encourages his herdsmen/kinsmen to terrorize armless Nigerians everywhere.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePJSywwVWZM

You are being dishonest and avoiding my questions even when i have answered yours. I hope you are not a little kid because you're behaving like one.
Again, w,
That speech was made before elections, yes or
no? Why has the government not picked him up if
he is responsible for the violence?

lastmessenger:
Of course it is kobo kobo idea because it is not written in the pages of the messenger angel(ROR). This guy you don't cease to amaze me.
God is able to to destroy both soul and body in hell is what is written there and I know what Jesus implies. He is saying God has the power to destroy both souls and body in hell and other passages made us know that God will actually destroy both soul and body in hell.
The only problem you have is because no be your pastor de teach am

What are the other passages that make us know that God will actually destroy soul and body in hell. I hope you can see that you now have to lie, imply', add to just to help these websites?

CAPTIVATOR:
its Clear, what happen to a serpent bruised on the head ? It dies .... Remember, That serpent in Gen 3:15 is satan .

Errr, when a serpent is bruised, it can heal, or be treated, or lose a contest but live to fight another day, or something. It is not clearly annihilation.

. Heb 2:14 refers to something Jesus will use his death to achieve in the future ...... Satan still have d means to cause death to mankind right now , so the idea of cross is not the point, but in the future, Jesus will brought him to NOTHING and death will cease too...

Interesting this. So, Jesus Himself says IT IS FINISHED. The Bible itself talks elaborately of the victory and the great things the death of Christ has accomplished for us. He has even resurrected for over 2000years. But here comes captivator in 2014 to captivate us away with mumbo jumbo rubbish about what Christ's death will achieve in future.
Jesus died to destroy the devil, who had power over death. He has done it already, it is a finished work All power has being given to Him in heaven and in earth. The devil has lost already. That is the gospel.

Lake of fire means " second death" !!! Death ...... Not everlasting life , ! Do u know that death and grave is also said to be in lake of fire to be tormented forever? Rev 20:14 Lols can death and grave be tortured ? No, anythin dat goes into the lake of fire , simply "will be no more" Rev 21:4 !!! " God will crush satan soon" Romans 16:20

Watch and see na. What did the grave present when it gave up the dead in it?

frosbel:
[size=13pt]Are you now a LIAR as well.[/size]

Why not use the [size=14pt]actual Strong's words[/size] used in the exact passage that your quoted ?? - 2 Thessalonians 1:9

3639. olethros ol'-eth-ros from a primary ollumi (to destroy; a prolonged form); [size=14pt]ruin, i.e. death, punishment:--destruction.
[/size]

622. apollumi ap-ol'-loo-mee from 575 and the base of 3639; [size=14pt]to destroy fully[/size] (reflexively, to perish, or lose), [size=14pt]literally or figuratively:--destroy, die, lose, mar, perish.[/size]

Link - http://www.eliyah.com/cgi-bin/strongs.cgi?file=greeklexicon&isindex=3639

Hahaha, so Strong's is holier than Vine's abi no be man write the two?

To know the fate of SATAN and his demons read - Ezekiel 28:19 and Mark 1:24

Ohhhhh, so even devil will not be tormented forever? i pity you.

frosbel:
What does destruction mean in shdemidemi's dictionary ?

Heb 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

When Jesus died, He destroyed the devil. Get some perspective. Search the word/phrase "destroy him" in the NT, e.g
Mat 12:14 Then the Pharisees went out, and held a council against him, how they might destroy him.

Things still happen after destruction apparently.

lastmessenger:
This is a simple statement made by Jesus in Mathew 10:28
Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; rather be afraid of God, who can destroy both body and soul in hell.

From the scripture it is obvious that Gods plan is to destroy the sinners body and soul in hell. No mention was made of never ending torturous conscious existence.

hope this is not the kobo kobo ideas that frosb's websites are presenting?
Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

God is ABLE TO destroy both soul and body in hell. It does not say that God will destroy both soul and body in hell. No BODY is going to hell(except the grave) in the first instance. Your physical bodies is dust and will return to dust, not hell.

frosbel:
Nope

Jesus was quoting from Isaiah 66:24 , let's see what it says ;
"And they will go out and look on the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; the worms that eat them will not die, the fire that burns them will not be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind."

Digest the bolded statement and meditate on it. The bodies were DEAD BODIES, not LIVE SOULS.

If you are not just regurgitating what you read or heard, but have carefully studied the Word. You would note that Isaiah 66 talks about the second COMING of Christ Jesus. That of course is also referred to as the millenial reign or 1000year reign of Jesus Christ on earth. This is corroborated in Revelations.
Isa 66:15 For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.
Isa 66:16 For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many.
Rev 19:21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Those unfortunate fellows who die during the second coming are going to be raised at the White throne judgement(Revelations 20:12-15) and thrown into where the worms that eat them will not die, the fire that burns them will not be quenched.

aha, that's a typical one. Only 'us' have the truth and know the truth, don't go elsewhere ooo grin . Do you know this is how the church stifled knowledge and spiritual growth during the medieval times.

No my friend, this is mind control and witchcraft.

It's interesting that you do not see your hypocrisy in this, when you tell people to listen to you and your websites and not listen to their pastors and so called church traditions. This interesting thing is called delusion in the english language.( because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie.)

If he has the Spirit of Christ he will not be deceived, besides the web site is a Christian web site quoting bible scripture not books from the 6 books of Moses.

You've gotta be kidding or displaying a gross ignorance of truth. Jesus severally and severely warned those His disciples who had the Spirit of Christ that they could be deceived. In fact, the worst and most subtle form of deception warning is from those that say that Jesus is Christ.
Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
Mat 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
Mar 13:6 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
Luk 21:8 And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.
Why should one take heed or be careful not to be deceived if deceive-proof is going to happen automatically?

Eze 28:19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.

i want to hope that your zealot self knows that Ezekiel 28 is referring primarily to satan the devil. It again invalidates your position on eternal judgement. i believe you know that devil will be consciously punished forever. "never shalt thou be any more" is primarily referring to devil not man as you seem set to show. And that means that he will not exist anymore in the land of life, or of the living. Before then, he will be locked up for 1000yrs and come back. then be taken away for ever. Meanwhile in the lake where hell and death themselves are thrown, devil will be there. Death will be powerless to help his cause or put him out of his misery, and that would secondarily apply to other inhabitants of that dreadful place. When the Bible is promising no more pain, no more sorrow, of course the promise is not for the inhabitants of hell, duh.

It is those who lived in the asylum that can tell madness when they see it.

What kind of boring 1722 proverb is this one. frosb, 2015 is here, wake up to reality. You don't have to live in an asylum to recognise a madman or madness. Are these the kind of palmwine sayings you revere and use to arrive at your conclusions?

lastmessenger:
You just said what I never said. To repeat myself. I said a just reward is that man is punished according to the level of iniquity he comitted.
secondly even bible through many scriptures showed that man will be punished but not tortured forever.the wages of sin is death that is very clear for all to see. Am still wondering how the endless torture doctrine found its way into Christianity. I personally think it is an attempt to keep people in check by e elite but unfortunately the idea have been counterproductive in that people develop thick skin and some totally reject the gospel. Anyway only study shall people be completely free.
My conclusion is not based on logic or interllevt or study? Then what else do you call logic? Is it not logical that a timed offence committed by man should be punished by a timed punishment?

i'm very sorry about that(the what you never said part). i had to re-read to see that i referred to conscious eternal punishment as just "punish". i see that using just "punish" can easily misconstrue what you have said, sorry about that.
You have your personal idea about what "just" is and i respect that. But do not mistake your idea for God's idea or for the biblical idea, or even for others idea. What you call a just reward might not be another's definition for just reward. What do you think? Pharaoh was stubborn, and ALL firstborn in Egypt died. Imagine all firstborn in Nigeria dying because Goodluck Jonathan did something silly. Would you think that a just thing to do? It is what God did, i'm just bringing you some perspective. i hope i'm not driving you away from God as it were, because it is not an easy thing to know God or understand God. Ibrahim Babangida killed many people and wrecked this country in summary. He has children and grandchildren. He is old and very rich, and if he is lucky he can give his life to Christ and go to wherever christians go. i've seen good christians that are very poor, died young, are looking for fruit of the womb etc. If a just reward is that man is punished according to the level of iniquity he committed, what the 'hell' is happening here?
The Bible teaches that sinners will be turned to hell and will be there for ever.
Rev 14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
Rev 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up forever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
Mar 9:43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
Mar 9:44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night forever and ever

i don't know what explanation or palliative you might have read about these, but the english and the grammar is steady here. Hell(fire) is an eternity. There are people to whom the blackness of darkness has being RESERVED for ever(Jud 1:13 Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever. )
Jesus Christ, who created hell, spoke a lot about hell and wasn't kidding when He talked about it. It's a place where even their worms don't die. forget about dustbin or whatever story frosb and his people may want to say. Jesus was clear enough about ETERNAL damnation.
The wages of sin is death, very correct. However, what is death? Is death just unconsciousness of our body? i think paralysis might better fit that definition. How does the Bible define and describe death? Death is simply SEPARATION. Whatever context or book or testament that you find the word "death", it simply follows the definition and description of separation. Whether we are talking about Adam dying the day he eats the wrong tree, or of sinners being spiritually dead, or of believers being supposedly dead to the world, or dying daily, or physical death. It is all about separation. Separation of man from God, separation of the body from the spirit, separation of the christian from the world etc.
Gen 35:18 And it came to pass, as her soul was in departing, (for she died) that she called his name Ben-oni: but his father called him Benjamin.
That is primarily death defined in the bolded above. The wages of sin is a separation from God. Adam and all men suffer that, and it can be eternal. Jesus tasted that on the cross, after being eternally connected to God. That was the price Jesus paid, the death Jesus died so that we will not die. Jesus didn't primarily die so that we would not physically die. Yes, some will not physically die, but a majority will physically die. But no child of God has to die again, do you believe this?
Joh 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

Your conclusion is not based on logic or intellect or study? i said that because you referred to conscious eternal punishment of man as SENSELESS. If it was senseless to you, then conscious eternal punishment of devil(s) would also be senseless to you. But you were like maybe or maybe not. That is not consistent, that is where i picked that you were only making an emotional and moral choice(because you are a man too), not a logical one. Which one is timed offence, was devil's offence not timed offence. Na eternal offence abi?

efficiencie:
Bro did yu read the opening comment? Pls do! I'm not prosecuting T B Joshua, rather i'm just trying to play the Umpire here...so as many as have listened him and have found fault with his teachings should speak up and well analyze the criticisms in the light of scripture...

What are his teachings/doctrines? As a self appointed umpire, you should have some idea what his teachings are na. Bring up his teachings and we will consider them in the light of God's Word. Sorry to say this, but i do not listen to him and do not have time for such. However, the 'few' times i have seen him, it has always being something superficial; some deliverance, or rice sharing or transformer giving, some prediction making. That seems to be about 95% of what i've seen TBJoshua doing. i've hardly seen him preach and the few times, it has still being very vague and superficial; nothing concrete or distinct. Any PROFESSING christian preacher would say the things he would say. Stuff close to motivational talk, God answers prayer, trust in God, focus on God, tell your neighbour Jesus is good. Some things close to that, these are all general.
i have a big problem with many of his practices and methods as they are not scriptural or biblical. The thread is about doctrine/teaching, so please, let's know his doctrine/teaching. Someone said something about T B Joshua's doctrine of love. Well, let's not get it twisted. Love is not sharing rice and money BTW. The Bible itself says so. On the scale of 1 Corinthians 13;
1Co 13:3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.

According to this scripture, one can distribute a lot of money, rice, scholarships, and whatever else TBJ does and still not have charity/love. People tend to say TBJ is a good man/top christian because he televises giving. Giving alone does not make one a christian as good and COMMENDABLE as it is. In fact, it is not even a proof of love according to the scripture passage above.
Usually, for me, the clearest proof of a child of God is their fruits. In this case, as a pastor, their converts or church members. The SCOAN members i have met are not it at all, lemme leave it at that.
Charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up. Charity doesn't advertise itself, it is not vain or puffed up, neither does it boast or brag. In that, TBJ's alleged charity scores low.
Charity doth not behave itself unseemly. A lot of unseemly stuff happens in the Synagogue deliverances. TBJ was one time a kind of specialist in making women clutch to their genitals, and some other not too fine things. Thank God for recent rebrandings sha, SCOAN has stepped up much, as it were. Of course you have video evidence, but it can be supplied in case you require. What more should one say, about the recent tragedy that happened in one of the Synagogue hostels and how SCOAN, TBJ and members handled it. The doctrine of love doesn't score high in my humble opinion.

efficiencie:
Solomon's sacrifice was not done in secret and the brethren of Acts did not give their contributions in secret...if T B Joshua also gives in the public his alms would be rejected if he's giving to be noticed of men but it would be accepted if he's acting under the inspired instruction of the HolyGhost...simple!

It's like you did not read what i said. "Solomon wasn't giving alms. Giving to God directly through offerings or His ministers is not alms. You give alms to poor people to help them, that was what Jesus talked about."

Mat 6:1 Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven.
Mat 6:2 Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
Mat 6:3 But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth:
Mat 6:4 That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly.

Obviously, he is not acting under the inspired instruction of the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit does not contradict the Word.

calaway:
why r you not going to the point? ok let me ask you directly did the convener of the gathering request the audience to kill under any circumstance? answer directly then ask your question as this will determine the possibility of discourse.

I'll oblige you. The point is that you lied, by saying Buhari made statements after elections. That's unsubstantiated. I didn't see or hear any request to kill UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES. Now,
That speech was made before elections, yes or no? Why has the government not picked him up if he is responsible for the violence?

GenBuhari:
[size=22pt]28th February 1985  - Herald Journal newspaper
Nigerian court acquits American woman of illegally exporting oil from Nigeria[/size]

Lagos, Nigeria (AP) - A military court  on Wednesay acqutted American businesswoman Marie McBroom of illegally exporting oil from Nigeria. Had she been convicted she could have been executed by a firing squad.
Mrs McBroom, who pleaded innocent to all six counts of the charge, had been in jail for a year and was freed shortly after the acquittal. She went to the U.S> Embassy and called her daughter in New York City.
Dana McBroom Manno said her mother "sounds great. She sounds in very good spirits," and planned to leave Nigeria very soon, perhaps today.

The 59-year-old businessswoman from Jersey City,N.J/, was the first foreigner acquitted of offenses related to Nigeria's petroleum industry by military tribunals established after a coup ousted the civilian government Dec. 31. 1983. A Spanish sea captain has been sentenced to death, and his government is appealing for mercy.

Oh booyeaa, no nonsense. One reason the corrupt rich investors in our country will do all they can to stop Buhari. May God give us the best.

GenBuhari:
[size=18pt]9th July 1984 - ITN News (Video clip from 8/7/84[color=#990000][/color])
Nigeria releases detained British Airliner .[/size]

http://www.itnsource.com/shotlist//ITN/1984/07/08/AS080784001/?s=nigeria&st=2&pn=1&sortBy=date

The British Caledonian airliner was seized by the Nigerian military authorities in reprisal for the detention of a Nigerian Airways Boeing 707 freighter at Stansted Airport, near London.

Umaru Dikko, a former transport minister, was found drugged inside a wooden crate, bound for Nigeria, with one of his abductors.The cargo, labelled 'Diplomatic Baggage', was opened after suspicious customs officers contacted Scotland Yard.A Nigerian agent was reported to have been arrested along with two Israeli mercenaries.Dikko was placed in hospital under armed guard to recover from the effects of the drugs.Police searched the Nigerian airliner before it was allowed to return to Lagos.

The Lagos Authorities, while denying any participation in the kidnap attempt, would not allow the British Caledonian airliner to leave Nigeria until their aircraft at Stansted was released.

So na Buhari teach 'jack bauer' that thing? Omo see film, when Nigeria's head was there. Sweet memories, thanks GenBuhari.

calaway:
TELL ME WHAT HE SAID AGAIN AND TRY TO BE ACCURATE THIS TIME.

We both know what he said but i will tell you again. Kindly answer the questions i asked first.
That speech was made before elections, yes or no? Why has the government not picked him up if he is responsible for the violence?

frosbel:
Stop spreading your ignorance for the whole world to see, we know you point of view and it has been debunked by even the baby believers on this site, just carry on with your churchianity and let those who want to learn learn.

Are you afraid or shy? I asked you question, you didn't answer. Lemme talk with those that answer na. You didn't address what i said but you want to chase me away, why?

frosbel:
You show a severe case of ineptitude when it comes to the truth of scripture, so go and sit down abeg, let those with humility learn.

Let's understand you, frosb. You say people should not listen to their pastor or to men. But they should learn from you?

OneNaira6:
OP

You realize your nation is a piece of sh1t that's subjected and created solely to fail right? If your people wanted to improve, they wouldn't be trying to uplift a failed dictator that didn't even improve your nation when he ruled as a messiah.

That county is backwards and forever would be backwards. As I said in the past, Nigeria is a disgrace to humanity

How can Nigeria be backward and a disgrace to humanity when we are undergoing an alleged TRANSFORMATION AGENDA and do not want Change? That is not consistent.

calaway:
LISTEN TO HIS SPEECH OR READ THE TRANSLATIONS I CANT FORCE YOU TO SEE BEYOND WHERE YOU ARE WILLING TO LOOK.

I already did. That speech was made before elections, yes or no? Why has the government not picked him up if he is responsible for the violence?

CAPTIVATOR:
Gentleman .... The Original Serpent is foretold to be annihalated forever in Genesis 3:15 the promised "seed will bruise him ( Devil) in the head" !! .... When something's HEAD is bruised, no recovery ,it dies forever .... Unlike Jesus dat was bruised in the heel, and recovered by ressurection the third day.

Heb 2:14 Jesus is once again foretold to bring Devil " to nothing " !! Remember Jesus will also bring death " to nothing" !! 1 cor 15:26. Anythin brought to NOTHING doesnt exist. So will be death.

In revelation 20:10, revelation is presented in signs/symbols ( Rev 1:1) Satan is hurled into the lake of fire which symbolize "second DEATH" !! Rev 21:8.. Death is also pictured as been thrown into d lake of fire!! It was explained that this undergo death and thus "will be no more " Rev 21:4,Romans16:20 .

Okay, in summary, you don't believe that God would punish devil(s) eternally. Quite a strange and unbiblical view IMHO.
I'll stay with what the Bible says, not what you conjure up at your whim. Genesis 3 says nothing like annihilation, I'm not buying that. What doctor told you about the recoverability of head and heels?
Hebrews 2 talks about what Jesus did to the devil on the cross(when He died), how you smuggle annihilation into that is dangerous. Devil still exists today. Revelations CLEARly tells us devil will be punished forever, and there will be no more death. You conveniently say to forget about that, interesting.

frosbel:
Simple, because we listened to the doctrines of our church and whatever our pastors told us we agreed without proper due diligence.

God wants us to find out the truth ourselves not through a Pastor !

Read : 1 John 2:27 , John 16:13 ,Acts 17:11 , 2 Timothy 2:15 and 1 Thessalonians 5:21.

The issue in Christendom today is that the sheep have mortgaged their brains and minds to mere MEN, and these men then determine what they should think , believe and in many cases do.

So we can listen to you and your website links right? But if we try to listen to our pastor, we should selectively remember that God wants us to find the truth ourselves. May God save you from delusion.

lastmessenger:
It is unjust and even senseless. Punishing people in torment for eternity to achieve what?
Justice demand that they are tortured according their sin and finally brought into a non existent state.

Okay, it is unjust and senseless to punish man, but you didn't make up your mind on whether it's unjust and senseless to punish devil(s) eternally. Your conclusion/opinion is an emotional and moral one, not one based on logic or study or intellect. Thank you.

calaway:
here is your proof;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePJSywwVWZM

This is not substantial proof. Showing pictures of violence and death and attaching Buhari's name to it doesn't mean Buhari did it, that's sentimental. Yes, of course, we all know there was post election violence and I'm not happy about it. But unfairly taking that, and Sharia and Boko haram and tying it all to Buhari without any solid proof is intellectual laziness. If there is any real proof, Buhari would be in police net, except you will say that the current government is incompetent to bring evil doers to book.
Your video shows an interpretation of Buhari's campaign speech telling people to protect their votes. This was BEFORE the elections, not after as you claim. Nothing out of the ordinary there, telling people not to allow rigging and manipulation. I understand the passion Buhari has that things should work right. But that passion should not be twisted as inciting violence. If results are not free and fair, it leads to unrest. This is a clear pattern in many parts of the world, whether Buhari says so or not. Black people tend to resort to violence when they feel cheated. This is a proven trend in many parts of Africa. Blaming Buhari is not the solution. How do we get credible elections, free and fair results? How do we curb rigging, these should be focus. In all the nigerian elections not clearly won, there has been unrest and violence, it's a trend thing, not Buhari.

efficiencie:
my brother it is not the ACCUSSED that will provide evidence for the PROSECUTION... you may be part of those attacking his ministry so please provide the doctrines that you are against and let us examine them together...

You created the thread nah. I'm asking for the umpteenth time, what are TBJ's doctrines/teachings?

GenBuhari:
[size=18pt]3rd October 1980  - ITN News
President Shagari opens the Third Mainland Bridge in Lagos[/size]
The third major road bridge from the Nigerian mainland to the Island of Lagos was opened by President Alhaji Shehu Shagari (on Tuesday 30 September), as part of the country's independence celebrations. It's designed to relieve the growing pressure on the two existing bridges which span the Lagos Lagoon.

SYNOPSIS: Since 1975 the growing number of vehicles driving in and out of Lagos have put the existing road system under considerable strain. So the completion of the Third Mainland Bridge is a welcome addition to tackle the problem. The first vehicles to travel along the bridge formed the official opening motorcade. It's the third in successive Government's efforts to link Lagos with the mainland.

Present Shehu Shagari was introduced to the officials who've co-ordinated construction since the bridge was merely a drawing on an architect's board. Then he was called on to officially declare the bridge open. He'd earlier paid glowing tributes to the contractors.

In contrast to the few vehicles in the official motorcade, the two original bridges were full, as usual, with heavy traffic. The problem's been evident since the early 1970s, and the first plans for the Third Mainland Bridge were discussed in 1975. Its design in comparable with the best in the world, according to Nigeria's Director of Federal Highways. It consists of two separate carriageways, each providing three traffic lanes and an emergency shoulder.

It's cost nearly one hundred and twenty two million pounds (Sterling).

" Its design in comparable with the best in the world", how is the mighty fallen? Now we borrow money from China for loco train and railway transport that the elite would not condescend to use, that's if it will eventually come to fruition, and we call that transformation.

lastmessenger:
Of course God will punish the sinner forever. I have never denied that.what I am yet to conclude on is the nature of the punishment. Is it an eternal conscious punishment or a total annihilation whereby the sinner is totally out of existence.

I refer to conscious. Would conscious punishment be just?

owobokiri:
Where is buhari sef? That one doesn't campaign. He prefers to read coup speaches. He must be somwhere waiting to soak dogs and baboons in blood.

Hahahahaha, you got me laughing very hard. What on earth was Buhari thinking to say that? Like all these nigerian wrestlers talk. But come to think of it, what does that statement mean?

Engrpj:
was even wondering if he has Eva preach abt Christ lyk dis

My first wonderment oh.