₦airaland Forum

flexshop: [b]I don't Normally comment on the religion section but has any of you people noticed the type of lifestyle our so called religious leaders live?
In all Of the Old and New testament, did anyone ever hear of Elijah or paul or Elisha or john the baptist or Enoch or any of christs disciples own houses and horses and chariots?
I have come to realise that when christ said if anyone wants to be my disciple,he must forgo worldly things,pick up his cross and follow me?
Or don't pastors who fleece their congregation and become billionaires and stupendously rich forget the verse that says that it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter heaven?isn't their own primary aim to make heaven also?
Honestly, church business is big business.I personally would have loved the free tithe money and others but woe betide these MEN who make money in the name of God, it would be better for them if the had not been born.Instead of me to steal Gods money, I rather steal from man.
Anyday I see any wealthy pastor who owns cars and property, I know immediately that the person is not of God. The Life of ministry is a service to God and man devoid of any comfort, yes read my lips if you claim to be a MAN OF GOD, devoid of all comfort. When jesus sent his disciples out to preach, he even told them not to carry anything just their sandlas and stick.
Judgement Day will be terrible.
I pity and feel very sorry when I see them living large in the name of my God is not a poor God.I don't envy them I just pity them because their own damnation will be twice[/b]

i love and appreciate simplicity and moderation. However, the benchmark for a man's life is NOT the abundance of things he possesses. You are using a minor percentage of pastors to judge/condemn the tithe. Not many pastors are very rich. There are churches that practice tithing and their pastors are not 'wealthy'. God's word should be the basis for doctrine, not some minor percentage's experience. BTW, i verily doubt that tithes is the reason for any pastors wealth. There are people that give far above tithes. People give cars, clothes, jewels and other material things. People vow and pledge and give whole salaries and billions and millions and firstfruits and othwr offerings. Mysteriously, tithe is the only culprit, the scape goat. This says a lot for the blindness and misguided zeal of the antitither.

Mark Miwerds: 2 Corinthians 9:6-7 says nothing about agricultural produce. Why do you assume it does?

Are you really saying that passage says NOTHING about agic produce? Sowing and reaping say NOTHING about agricultural produce? This is new man! Tell me, what is being said then?

2 Corinthians 9:6 But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully. 9:7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.

The very instance that Timothy was told/permitted to take wine for his health is indication that he was priorly forbidden.

Mark Miwerds: context shows that verse is in relation to a freewill offering, not the mandatory monetary tithe that you embrace

Watch your blood pressure. The question is: Does 2Corinth 9:6,7 refer to only agricultural produce?

[quote author=fr_evangel]You either do not know Joel or you are deceived already or you don't know what salvation and the gospel is. Whichever, you need to stop listening and defending Joel for some time. During this period, study your bible ALONE and PRAYERFULLY.
Probably fast from your biggest distractions (food or tv or any other thing that craves for your attention). When you study, use no book or message but a study bible and make comparison within scriptures.
Make notes and go over it again and again. When you are done, you should not worry about what I've said but what the scriptures say.

My desire is to see Christians return to the written word. Too many have left the scriptures for craftily devised false doctrines, thinking it's the gospel.[/quote]Ah ah. Discrepancy dey here oh. NLM seems to be a member of Mr Joel's church with firsthand experience. You seem to have heard him few times. i think he(NLM) should be given benefit of doubt na. Anyway you people carry your Joel talk go another place na make we wey no sabi am get something to read from this thread.

nwuyag: if you refer back to my previois post to kabieosi, you will realise that I was trying to pass something across. Please stop trying to twist. If you can read other passages of the bible without looking for a separate meaning, why try defining a different meaning to omniscience? cos it doesn't really fit in.

Trying to pass something across? i think pretty much everyone is trying to do that, it does not call for a special realisation. God is the One said to be omniscient so we will do well to pay attention to the Bible's concept and context of that above any other definition. See the verse below for instance:
2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

This verse is telling us that its definition of 'slack/slackness' is different from the common one. What some men(actually many men) will define as slack is different with the way the writer uses it. The same with omniscience or omnipresence or any other omnis used to describe God.
What would you define as omnipresence? Be patient, i'm trying to get you to reason and discuss. i'd love to give something straight like alcuin and oweniwe did, but it appears it needed some breaking down.

Just did a quick search to help some to a link that says something similar. Note the following quote from the link.
"In many countries any drink with less than 0.5% ABV can legally be
described as non-alcoholic , because your body can metabolise the
alcohol as fast as you consume the drink. Although all orange juice
contains alcohol, the quantity is low enough that you won’t get
intoxicated from it, even if you drink many glasses of it. However in
places with zero-tolerance rules against driving with any measurable
alcohol in your blood, you might need to be careful if you are a very
heavy orange juice drinker."

http://quezi.com/14067

Pastor Kun: The onus is on you to prove that the wine did not contain alcohol as wine by definition is an alcoholic beverage. Infact there is no such thing as non alcoholic wine, that terminology is an oxymoron.

Learned people know that the earth is the Lord's and the fullness thereof, and that there is nothing unclean of itself. Learned people also know that every fruit contains sugar and ethanol. The content/percentage increases with fermentation. This is basic science and rural palm wine knowledge. Your sugar, your coca-cola, your medicine, lt all contains the likes of alcohol, cocaine, hemp and such banned substances.
Google is still free for your learning. You can't compare the fruit of the vine and whatever other fruit juice with alcohol content of about 0.1% or less to the likes of gin and whisky(above 40% alcohol), spirit(above 80%), brandy(35%) or beer(above 2% depending on which and not to mention the fishes and carton devourers that help multiply the percentage).
The bible solemnly discourages intake of alcoholic wine.

Goshen360: @ Bidam and Image123,

Please read Galatians 3:19 in as many translations you can and pay attention to the answer to the question asked, then go read exodus 19 what transpired before the law was given in Exodus 20 and henceforth

i know the verse and i know what it says. It has nothing to do with your claims that the children of Israel asked God to give them laws. i'm not saying you're right or wrong, i just dey mesmerised by your post. Make we leave am sha, lets not unrail my very highyo's thread.

Goshen360: However, they demanded the law through their arrogance and wanting to fulfill their self righteousness. That scripture you gave when I asked you question on the other thread was first spoken by God in exodus 19 and that showed God's original intent.

Hmmm. The Gosh effect.

christemmbassey: i had decided to only follow this thread for a while, but this ur post has forced me out. Joa it is very very sad that u should av such a mind. Imagine u advocating for trading on d word of God, so u mean, d power to heal etc was given by God, but inspiration to preach was bought therefor, should b sld for profit? It is a pitty dat uve been sold totally to worldliness and greed, i we'v bn vindicated for calling tithe collectors fraudsters. U asked for support b4 u write a book, when d writting is done, u asked 4 assistance to publish, after u've published, u asked for partnership to distribute and then sell at 10x d production cost. How much did u pay God n d holy phost? This is very unfortunate. U think God took u to CEC to complicate things? Pls brother, ask urself, why am i here? God bless.

And what on earth has the thread or the post you quoted got to do with your tithe obsession? Indeed, you deserve no answer as usual.

nwuyag: You ve not given a good reason to call me unfair.
There is only one meaning of omniscience and its what is in the dictionary. Afterall, other english words in the bible are also interpreted with dictionary definitions. There is only one definition.

There seems to be more than one concept and context. BTW, only God is said to be OMNI so the bible context should take precedence.

rationalmind: Ominiscience to me is the ability to know all things. As far as I'm concerned, ominiscience n freewill cannot be reconciled with eachother.

That's because you probably have a wrong context of at least one of the two.

rationalmind: Omnipresence is the ability to be in all places at all times

Good.
Do you think God is in your laptop or in your pocket?

2 Corinthians 9:6 But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully. 9:7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.

Mark, is the passage above referring to only agricultural produce?

rationalmind: I don't even get your point. Isn't omniscience the ability to know all things?

What is omnipresence?

[quote author=fr_evangel]I do not totally agree that they are all out to buy private jets. I know a few who are not merchandising the brethren yet missed it here.
The error precedes the error of "wealth/prosperity" gospel.

Where is Goshen, Christemmbassey, Candour, Pastor Kun, Frosbel and the rest.
I love to hear from you.[/quote]Also when a different view was aired(by Jo), the OP was just giving some yada yada about derailing the thread. As in, allow some civil discussion for God's sake, as it were.

nlMediator: Obviously, you plan to limit your evangelism to the bush. Because if you plan to reach multitudes in the city, that may require renting a big stadium or auditorium. And millions of naira to pay for it. Perhaps, you'll wait for the money to rain from heaven. Or you'd ask people to subsidize it through free will offerings and conference fees. BTW, nothing wrong with preaching in the bush. And with the kind of damage you're likely to cause with a big platform, as evident from your attacks here, such limit is not bad.

hehehehehehehe, you're gonna hurt somebody oh.

Hmmm, thanks for the refreshing Psalm. i appreciate that Biblical context given. Lets hear from nwuyag.

nwuyag: How am I being unfair?
This is the general definition of omniscience from my dictionary
Omniscience n. 1. The quality or state of being omniscient; the quality of knowing everything
From the bible analogy, this is not compatible like the example I gave and that of david_hume and some others. I actually don't know or I can't point to the exact verse which says God is omniscient. But from the bible, it would have been safer to say that God knows many things/ intelligent but not omniscient

You're bein unfair in the sense that your context of omniscience(or anything OMNI if i may so say) does not align with the Bible's context and concept. i doubt that the Bible states that God knows everything BTW. i'm open to learning though.

Pastor Kun: Yes he was falsely accused of being a drunkard but Jesus himself stated clearly he drank wine. Common sense dictates that he was drinking alcoholic wine and not some fruit wine for hypocrites like you to have labelled him a drunkard.

Try to speak like a christian even though you are not one or at least act civilized, not like a thug. Assumption and presumption is not equal to common sense. State cogent reasons for the so called common sense instead of shoving presumptions down our throats.

And what is the truth? That christians should not sell? Sing me a lullaby instead.

nwuyag: I think freewill there is just an illusion since the omniscient one is the creator of freewill.

nwuyag: I ve actually wondered if apologists have considered this. Sometimes, I feel its more okay if they said that God is not omniscient instead of complicating issues. It sometimes seems to me that whoever wrote the bible just wanted to attribute all mighty powers as in a super hero movie and removed any possible weakpoint not knowing that he/she was contradicting himself.

You're being unfair to God if i may so say. What is your concept of omniscience and what is the Bible's concept.

Pastor Kun: @rapture_ready
Stop forcing your opinion into scripture as none of the verses you quoted forbids a christian from taking wine. Even our lord Jesus Christ took alcoholic wine contrary to the impression you are trying to create. Luke 7:33-34 makes it clear the wine in question is alcoholic otherwise the issue of being drunk would not even arise.

Luke 7:33
33 For John the Baptist is come eating no bread nor drinking wine; and ye say, He hath a demon. 34 The Son of man is come eating and drinking; and ye say, Behold, a gluttonous man, and a drunkard, a friend of publicans and sinners!

Jesus was accused of being a drunkard and possessed by demons. He didn't have demons but the issue arose. It's called false accusation.

rationalmind: How do we reconcile the concept of ominiscience with your answer?

What exactly is the concept of omniscience(your concept and the Bible's concept). How do we reconcile omniscience with free will?

Kabieosi: @Image123

He fat fingere'd

I think it is "Doesnt God Not Know Those Already Going To Hell?"
- "Does" as opposed to "Doesn't"

OR

"Doesnt God Not Know Those Already Going To Hell?"

lol @ fat fingered. Thanks for the correction.

aManFromMars: Na. I never report mad people. They always entertain me.

Good to hear that you do not report mad people. Bad to hear that they always entertain you.

@OP
Your title is grammar flawed, i think i understand your question though.

Answer- No.
Happier now?

aManFromMars: ^^^
Lol. No answer given. I like this.

The lol thing is that you will run away or report me if i start with you.

You are talking to an evangelist, hahaahahahaha. Lovely thread BTW, although the OP has itching ears. We know what and who he wants to hear from, don't we?

@OP
The two sides have their points, and there is always an extremist viewpoint. Let everyone be led by God and not copy copy.

Proverbs 31:4 It is not for kings, O Lemuel, it is not for kings to drink wine; nor for princes strong drink:

:However, the earth is God's, and context is profitable to direct.

Highyoooooo, my very good person. Always on the high side, God is your strength jare.