₦airaland Forum

mykejones: Oh! Pharmaceutical sciences use questionnaires too? Quite strange! All the best though!

i was going to ask same question too. Quite strange! I thought medical and pharmaceutical research studies were experimental.

I knew that govt will never do anything.

Where are you guys?

Any news about meeting the demands of ASUP? Govt themselves are not sincere.

Onainor Samuel :
Bsc or HND?
Develop yourself.

That's not the issue. Why the discrimination in the first place? Where are Bsc holders given leverage over HND holders?

Very good.

Sorry guys, i've been very busy with some other research works for some clients. I'll soon be looking at this proposed research.

mo2raur: @ Zebra & Cajetan Speak, I PM You Both Didnt See Your Reply. Pls Sir... I Want To Write My Project And I Need Your Guide.

Hello, i can also help. What are u writing on? Let me know so that i wud know the chapter and how i can help. Regards.

sandammy: Alright, if that is what you want, i will honour your demand. It's just disgusting that you are so obsessed with this HND VS B.Sc disparity. I promise from now on i will be just an 'on-looker'.

Thank u, for telling me how obssessed i am with the HND - Bsc disparity. Where are ur emperical evidences to show that Bsc is better than HND? Just mere claims, i guess! I was taught that it's very wrong for people to make conclusions on something without having emperical evidences or proofs. As a researcher i don't work without empirical evidence, therefore we need to carry out a research that will enable us uphold your claim or otherwise that the HND is inferior to the Bsc. If u feel u can't take part in the research u can stand by and watch as we do it. Leave those of us that are interested to continue with it. N.B. I can do the research alone, just that the work will be for just one geopolitical zone. I want a more robust research that's why i want other people to join me so that we can get data from all the geopolitical zones.

sandammy: Alright, if that is what you want, i will honour your demand. It's just disgusting that you are so obsessed with this HND VS B.Sc disparity. I promise from now on i will be just an 'on-looker'.

Thank u, for telling me that i'm obssessed with the HND - Bsc disparity. Where are ur emperical evidences to show that Bsc is better than the HND? Just mere claims, i guess! I was taught that it's very wrong for people to make conclusions on something without having emperical evidences or proofs. As a researcher i don't work without empirical evidence, therefore we need to carry out a research that will enable us uphold your claim or otherwise that the HND is inferior to the Bsc. If u feel u can't take part in the research u can stand by and watch as we do it. Leave those of us that are interested to continue with it. N.B. I can do the research alone, just that the work will be for just one geopolitical zone. I want a more robust research that's why i want other people to join me so that we can get data from all the geopolitical zones.

sandammy: It baffles me seeing people exhibiting themselves as masters of irrelevances. I do not know what you guys want to achieve with this. The school you attended is never a factor of who you are. U can be a polytechnic student and still be better than a uni student, knowing this that polytechnic is never your first choice, i see no reason u should end there. The fact that you refuse to have a B.Sc certificate is a matter of choice and i think you should be prepared and responsible for you choice if u ever face any discrimination. I still use to tell people, instead of going to the polytechnic if jamb refuses you admission, why not go for one year pre-degree programme, that will make it easier for you to gain admission if you are the serious type. I will visit this page again

Pls don't distract others that are willing to take part in the research.

sandammy: It baffles me seeing people exhibiting themselves as masters of irrelevances. I do not know what you guys want to achieve with this. The school you attended is never a factor of who you are. U can be a polytechnic student and still be better than a uni student, knowing this that polytechnic is never your first choice, i see no reason u should end there. The fact that you refuse to have a B.Sc certificate is a matter of choice and i think you should be prepared and responsible for you choice if u ever face any discrimination. I still use to tell people, instead of going to the polytechnic if jamb refuses you admission, why not go for one year pre-degree programme, that will make it easier for you to gain admission if you are the serious type. I will visit this page again

Pls stay away from this thread if u can't contribute anything to help us achieve our aim. There is a serious discrimination currently going on against HND holders in Nigeria, with many believing that the poly syllabus is inferior to that of the university, poly graduates/students do not kearn/know as much as university graduates/students, among many others. And as such poly students are not allowed to go for masters directly, and are not employed on the same level with Bsc holders. Since we have statistical tools that can be used to provide empirical evidences and to test such claims, why can't we carryout the research to affirm whatever claims made for/against the polytechnic and university systems of education?

x-razzy:
I'm also a graduate of both polytechnic and University. To me if the analytical gap necessitating this study has do with lack of empirical evidence on the level of job competence/efficiency of University graduate in relation to Poly graduates, then the study subjects are not students/graduates themselves but Human resource managers/personnel managers of various types of firms (having both type of graduates as part of their workforce) in the country. surveying/interviewing these set of people will give snapshot of productivity and proficiency of each type of graduate in their field.

that's going to be ok. But we want to know by interviewing the graduates themselves. We will have certain variables to measure their skills and knowledge on what they learnt in school; and we shall also test them to know how sharp and accurate they can answer certain questions on their course(s) of study. I also want us to interview employers too, but the fact remains that most employers do not give HND and Bsc equal opportunities as per employment conditions. Most employers employ HND graduate as contract staff and won't be given task that will make them use the skills learnt in the polytechnic. These are what we want to assess.

Pls those that will participate must come from the disciplines specified above from each of the geopolitical zones in nigeria. For example i stay in kd, and i read stats. I can therefore sample students in ABU, KASU, Kadpoly and NuBampoly for the northwest zone. So tell us ur geopolitical zone and the schools (fed/state uni & fed/state poly) that u can sample.

mathematician: will you put forward questionaires?, and i am a graduate of both a polytechnic and a university.

that's good. I'm also a graduate of the 2 schools too. We shall decide on that later. We may adopt both oral interview and questionnaire.

We also need people that reside or can easily reach both uni and poly graduates from each of the geopolitical zones in the country. We shall ensure that the scope and coverage covers both federal and state universities and polytechnics in the geopolitical zones. We shall also use the following courses which are studied in both polytechnic and university. Accounting, Bus Admin, Architecture, Estate Mgt, Elect/Elect Eng, Civil Eng, Statistics, Computer Sci, Mass Comm, and Library & Info Sci.

Good! U guys are welcome. We need to strategies on how to go about the research. Before we start i will like to state the objective(s) of the research, the scope and coverage, the research question(s), and the research hypothesis or hypotheses. I will also specify the methodology and sampling procedure. The research team must comprise of graduates from both poly and uni.

Are u good in conducting research? Can u work with a team of researchers? I want us to carrying out a good research study to find out if there is a significant difference btw poly HND graduates and uni Bsc/BA graduates. We don't need to be assuming all the time like most nigerians do, that the university graduates are better than the polytechnic graduates. We want to gather facts and test empirically to see the outcome. I need guys that can collaborate with me in doing this, and we shall post the findings and results here on nairaland. Pls indicate interest if u want to take part and i will tell u the role to play. N.B. It's just a social research work and not a research project work for the award of a degree or diploma.

Are u good in conducting research? Can u work with a team of researchers? I want us to carry out a good research study to find out if there is a significant difference btw poly HND graduates and uni Bsc/BA graduates. We don't need to be assuming all the time like most nigerians do, that the university graduates are better than the polytechnic graduates. We want to gather facts and test emperically to see the outcome. I need guys that can collaborate with me in doing this, and we shall post the findings and results here on nairaland. Pls indicate interest if u want to take part and i will tell u the role to play. N.B. It's just a social research work and not a research project work for the award of a degree or diploma.

Are u good in conducting research? Can u work with a team of researchers? I want us to carrying out a good research study to find out if there is a significant difference btw poly HND graduates and uni Bsc/BA graduates. We don't need to be assuming all the time like most nigerians do, that the university graduates are better than the polytechnic graduates. We want to gather facts and test emperically to see the outcome. I need guys that can collaborate with me in doing this, and we shall post the findings and results here on nairaland. Pls indicate interest if u want to take part and i will tell u the role to play. N.B. It's just a social research work and not a research project work for the award of a degree or diploma.

Are u good in conducting research? Can u work with a team of researchers? I want us to carry out a good research study to find out if there is a significant difference btw poly HND graduates and uni Bsc/BA graduates. We don't need to be assuming all the time like most nigerians do, that the university graduates are better than the polytechnic graduates. We want to gather facts and test emperically to see the outcome. I need guys that can collaborate with me in doing this, and we shall post the findings and results here on nairaland. Pls indicate interest if u want to take part and i will tell u the role to play. N.B. It's just a social research work and not a research project work for the award of a degree or diploma.

I've not heard anything again about government meeting the demands of ASUP. Hope poly lecturers were not decieved to call of their strike? They should have done it the ASUU way.

Maidoki14: No be naija we dey??Almustapha fr Gov.2015 insha allah!

I can't remember anybody retiring him from the army. He's still an army officer. Can a serving military officer go into pnlitics?

Mr. Script:
No comment about Discrimination of Poly student

Just watch and see how this will end. From the look of things the lecturers are on strike for their own financial benefits, and not because they want FG to remove the discrimination against the poly HND certificate and make polytechnics centres of excellence for technological knowledge. If that's the case NAPS should also organise their own protest against the lecturers for greed and selfishness.

spiritfada: National President of the  Academic Staff Union of Polytechnics,  ASUP,  Dr  Chibuzor Asumogba has said that the 73-day old strike embarked on by his union will be called off in two weeks time.

This was even as the President of the Academic Staff Union of Universities, ASUU, Dr Nasir Isa Fagge told Vanguard that the  10-day-old  varsity lecturers strike would continue.

Asumogba,  in an interview with Vanguard after the meeting with the Joint National Assembly Committees on Education, indications emerged that the Federal Government would accede to their demands.

He said: “Our meeting with the Senate Committee on Education was successful. There was an agreement to meet our demands in the next two weeks as the request will be presented to President Goodluck Jonathan for his approval.”

He said that the Senate  Committee Chaired by Senator Uche Chukwumerije however, pleaded that the union should call-off their strike and give it some time to convey their demands to the President.

Asumogba who noted that he cannot unilaterally call off the strike based on government’s promise added, “We will determine when to call off our industrial action after our NEC meeting slated in two weeks.”

According to him,  ASUP demands waiting for presidential approval include; implementation of the Consolidated Polytechnics and Colleges of Education Academic Staff Salary Structure, the Consolidated Polytechnic and Colleges of Education Academic Staff Salary Structure (CONPCASS), package, the appointment of the governing council and the issuance of the White Paper on same.

Source: http://www.vanguardngr.com/2013/07/asup-set-to-call-off-strike/

These poly lecturers are funny. I thought removing the discrimination against HND certificate and establishment of a national polytechnics commission were the foremost reasons for embarking on the strike? It's money that is their priority. Na wa for Nigeria.

spiritfada: National President of the  Academic Staff Union of Polytechnics,  ASUP,  Dr  Chibuzor Asumogba has said that the 73-day old strike embarked on by his union will be called off in two weeks time.

This was even as the President of the Academic Staff Union of Universities, ASUU, Dr Nasir Isa Fagge told Vanguard that the  10-day-old  varsity lecturers strike would continue.

Asumogba,  in an interview with Vanguard after the meeting with the Joint National Assembly Committees on Education, indications emerged that the Federal Government would accede to their demands.

He said: “Our meeting with the Senate Committee on Education was successful. There was an agreement to meet our demands in the next two weeks as the request will be presented to President Goodluck Jonathan for his approval.”

He said that the Senate  Committee Chaired by Senator Uche Chukwumerije however, pleaded that the union should call-off their strike and give it some time to convey their demands to the President.

Asumogba who noted that he cannot unilaterally call off the strike based on government’s promise added, “We will determine when to call off our industrial action after our NEC meeting slated in two weeks.”

According to him,  ASUP demands waiting for presidential approval include; implementation of the Consolidated Polytechnics and Colleges of Education Academic Staff Salary Structure, the Consolidated Polytechnic and Colleges of Education Academic Staff Salary Structure (CONPCASS), package, the appointment of the governing council and the issuance of the White Paper on same.

Source: http://www.vanguardngr.com/2013/07/asup-set-to-call-off-strike/

These poly lecturers are funny. I thought removing the discrimination against HND certificate and establishment of a national polytechnics commission were the foremost reasons for embarking on the strike? It's money that is their priority. Na wa for Nigeria.

Gasout: The HND graduate put in more effort and seriousness in ICAN than their Uni counterpart because it would serve as an edge to them in the labour market and sometimes it depends on the intelligent of the individual. I REST MY CASE

i wish other professional courses can have exams bodies like ICAN where a level playing ground is given to both HND and Bsc holders.

Gasout: The HND graduate put in more effort and seriousness in ICAN than their Uni counterpart because it would serve as an edge to them in the labour market and sometimes it depends on the intelligent of the individual. I REST MY CASE

Yes, it depends on the intelligence and seriousness of the individual. Most HND Acct graduates, because of the discrimination they face tend to work extra hard to pass the ICAN exams, and also they've been exposed to past ICAN questions while studying in the polytechnic.

Ebyce: May GOD help us ,am tried of stayn at home

Don't get tired pls! Pray for the govt to meet the demands of the striking lecturers, including removing the discrimination against HND certificate. I can assure u, it is only then that u can be hopeful to have a future that will be sweet and pleasant as a poly HND graduate. HND graduates are currently and presently suffering in the civil service. They now employ HND holders as level 07 officers (level for NCE holders) instead of 08. They also cannot go beyond level 12 in some parastatals. Just endure a little.

kayusbrown: Ignorance smells all over your post. It is folks like you that continue to perpetuate this evil discrimination because of the fear that HND holders might outshine their degree holder counterparts if placed at same level.

It is only in Nigeria that the engineering degree holder assumes the title 'Engineer' is meant only for engineering University graduates. This explains why COREN is more concerned about titles at the expense of technological advancement of the nation. For your information, even the Engineering Craftmen are ENGINEERS at their own level if you know what engineering really mean.
The HND holders are not interested in titles. All they demand is justice. If what constitutes a bachelor's degree internationally is success in minimum of 120 credit hours of courses in higher institution of learning, why is Nigeria HND not accepted as equivalent to a bachelor's degree when an average HND holder must have completed successfuly courses not less than 140 credit hours(ND courses inclusive cos it's the pre-requisite to HND)?

Nice one there. The last time i checked, countries like US assume HND to be the equivalent of a BS Degree. They admit nigerian HND holders direct into their postgraduate schools for Master's Degree programmes by virtue of having spent atleast 4 years studying in a higher institution and being able to achieve a minimum credit load of 120. Most nigerian polytechnics even achieve between 160 and 180 credits from ND to HND. If the US can respect the nigerian HND and treat it as the equivalent of a BS Degree, that means it is internationally recognized. Let justice prevail. It should not be about the name of the school or certificate, whether Degree or Diploma, but about the structure and quality of the course work and its significance to economic development. Also what the individual can do should be significant. What the polytechnic graduates are asking for is a level playing ground for both teams to compete without fear or favour. Accounting body (ICAN) realized this long ago and has allowed both HND and Bsc holders to compete together, and the HND holders have been doing better in the exams from ICAN records. Other professional bodies should borrow a leaf from ICAN and give Poly graduates the chance to proof themselves right or wrong.

In practice, and what is obtainable in the UK, US, Canada, and most European countries;the difference between engineering and engineering technology is very insignificant. That is why they overlap each other in so many ways. Engineering focuses on theoretical aspect of engineering and earning a BSc or BEng at the end of the day, while engineering technology focuses on applied engineering and earning a BTech. They are equivalent qualifications serving different purposes and playing complementary roles. They are employed and placed on the same level. There is no discrimination in terms of remuneration and job progression. For those overrating engineering and underrating engineering technology, do a Google search of the word engineering technology and read what u can see there.

double3: Young fellow,u can't expect to be trained as a technician n wanto end up answering an engineer,u should know better. In the field of engineering, we have the engineers, the technicians, the technologist, the craftmen, and the artisans. So u can't be trained to be a crafts man or technologist n come out tomorrow n wanto rub shoulders with an engineering degree holder; I don't think its done anywhere in the world(u can quote me on that)
Moreover before applying to go to a polytechnic, I think u should have been aware of th degree u would be given at th end of ur program, so please let's stop all these sentimental bullshit n play our roles according to our academic background. Or tomorrow u should not be surprised when a brick layer comes out n start making noise tht he can build houses while a civil engr. cannot do so, so therefore they should be allowed to answer th tile of an engr. (Lol)

There is DEGREE programme in Engineering Technology in the US, and no discrimination attached to the certificate, even in remuneration and career progression. They are technologists just like the nigerian polytechnic HND Engineering Technology graduates. Use ur Google.